50,000+ youth hockey players statewide, 250,000 coaches, refs, family, and workers, so conservatively 300,000 people around the rinks, homes and retail/commercial/restaurants hockey supports, 108 positive tests isolated to clusters, no hospitalizations and no deaths and they shut it down. Many think it's not going to reopen. What is the end game?
No idea how we will measure it, but I feel like the damage we are doing to our youth is significant.
Not sure if this thread will survive, it's not a political COVID thread, but I know COVID in general has a way of bringing out the worst in people.
My apologies in advance if this does that.
Broke my heart last night telling the kids after practice and seeing most of them in tears.
NYC isn't having league games until next year, I think.
NYC isn't having league games until next year, I think.
my mens leagues are obviously canceled too, but I don't care as much about them. lol. At my age, a 2-week break is not the worst thing since it takes me two - three days to recover after every game.
but I think the kids should be playing. Even if they have to have a no spectator/parents policy (like the rink we played at Sunday morning).
I guess they are worried about expotential spread.......and we are being warned of a second wave.
My personal opinion is it's going to take a full year until this March - with a vaccine hopefully by then - until erring on the side of caution is discarded.
And I think lawsuits still play a huge role in this.
Everyone is sacrificing something, some people are sacrificing a lot (like their livelihoods). It would be great for us all if we could act like serious people for once, follow guidelines, listen to the experts and get this thing going the right direction.
But I know that’s impossible in this country so we’ll be dealing with this all longer than necessary in a more damaging way than necessary.
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I was playing down in Florida and I think a majority of the people I played with tested positive so they shut down the rink for a month (I think by some urging by local governments), but I think they're back open now.
NYC isn't having league games until next year, I think.
my mens leagues are obviously canceled too, but I don't care as much about them. lol. At my age, a 2-week break is not the worst thing since it takes me two - three days to recover after every game.
but I think the kids should be playing. Even if they have to have a no spectator/parents policy (like the rink we played at Sunday morning).
I agree. I know this stuff is rough on everyone, but kids are getting crushed.
I guess they are worried about expotential spread.......and we are being warned of a second wave.
My personal opinion is it's going to take a full year until this March - with a vaccine hopefully by then - until erring on the side of caution is discarded.
And I think lawsuits still play a huge role in this.
Last year ended prematurely. It was state tournament time and for the most part ended abruptly and unfinished.
Sadly, especially for the seniors who many won't ever play competitive hockey again. Just a shitty way to end this chapter of their lives. And some people take a nuanced view of so what it's just a game or just sports peoples lives are more important, but I don't think it's that black and white.
And I agree we need to get the virus under control, but by the way it looks from Europe and South America that's probably a fools errand, lock downs don't work and have a cost, masks don't work, almost like we're better off protecting the at-risk and letting it run it's course for the not at-risk but my non-scientific and non-medical opinions probably will push this closer to deletion.
I think you need everyone playing by the rules. Again the expotential chance of spread is what ruins it.
There's reports of younger people in clubs in Europe partying without masks........that's not going to work.
And I think to say we can't get everone on the same page means scrap it entirely.
I think we are going to go thru this type of suffering until next March...so until then we see things like the letter you posted.
It boggles the mind that our country has known about this for nine months and we still can't even come together on simple agreed-upon measures to keep our fellow citizens safe.
And I don't think science is clear on this or that there is a plan, it's all over the place and the restrictions put on healthy people is something we may look back on with regret.
And I don't think science is clear on this or that there is a plan, it's all over the place and the restrictions put on healthy people is something we may look back on with regret.
Might be regret on other issues, but in terms of playing sports, I don't think regret will be an issue.
Next spring we hopefully get the vaccine (which won't help everyone but will give people some confidence), and the virus will be a year old and more commonplace. And hopefully we see a big drop in cases.
When you leave the house you used to take your keys and wallet. That migrated to a cell phone. Now it's take a mask too.
Last year my summer mens's baseball league was cancelled. One thing I couldn't see doing is wearing a mask during a game, and not being able to interact w/ my players the way I like to.
Next year...more commonplace. I can see me wearing a mask while managing if needed and handling the situation better....we adjust.
It all adds up, do you have kids?
The toll virtual/hybrid learning is taking on these kids is noticeable, sports being canceled adds to it. suicide is up, depression is through the roof, emotional issues are untold. Learning is stagnating social interaction suffering.
and they do wear masks when they play - it was a USA hockey requirement.
It all adds up, do you have kids?
The toll virtual/hybrid learning is taking on these kids is noticeable, sports being canceled adds to it. suicide is up, depression is through the roof, emotional issues are untold. Learning is stagnating social interaction suffering.
and they do wear masks when they play - it was a USA hockey requirement.
Sports are being eliminated? It's being delayed, in your case, two weeks.
And who is locked in their house....I see no one advocating that. I see kids outside in my neighborhood all the time riding bikes, shooting hoops outside their house......don't over blow it that way.
I do not have kids. But I understand the role sports has on kids, it's quite important IMO. I actually was a kid lol
point is schools are 60% virtual (and tending to 100% virtual) in my town (because of a 8% positivity testing rate with very little hospitalizations and next to no deaths), sports are gone. In school the change is drastic too, masks all day, no talking, no recess, no real traditional social interaction.
Yes, this is a two-week suspension, but most people feel a resumption is unlikely.
these types of restrictions take a toll that goes well beyond "how many positive cases do we have" which is more often than not healthy people testing positive.
This is the greatest country in the world but 9 months into this pandemic we can’t get cheap rapid testing and contact tracing and nationally coordinated mask policy? This is a fairly simple healthcare and public safety issue that became needlessly politicized and completely messed up.
We need to stop reacting to "positive tests" especially with the kids. It has crossed the line to absurd at this point. We have had weekends with over 100 kids from across the country in our wrestling club seeking some form of normalcy. I know its a small sample size but its enough for me to be convinced the nation as a whole is over doing this thing.
From the director of the event
Olympic Club Folkstyle Duals was hosted on Sept 11-13, 2020. We brought in some of the best girls and boys clubs in the USA to wrestle.
Throughout the entire tournament we got harassed by College Township(State College,PA) with multiple citations.
We had sent a follow-up survey to every team coach to ask if “anybody(Wrestler/Parent/Coach and/or fans) had symptoms or confirmed cases of COVID after the tournament.” Mind you, we had a mitigation plan in place..... we didn’t treat this as a typical tournament.....Temperature checks were done prior to coming into the building and masks were mandated while inside.
RESULTS of the survey: The survey says: NOT ONE COACH CLAIMED TO HAVE HAD A CASE OF COVID. Our event was 14 days ago.
The reality.....Kids need to play sports. We just need to follow protocols that are realistic. We need to come together and get kids back into sports and activities. I don’t think the opposition understands the toll of not having activities for kids to compete is doing psychologically to kids. These kids train many hours (in every sport).... We need realistic mandates!!
My neighbor was telling me the incredible extremes they are going through just to get kids to be able to play tackle football. It's stupid and ridiculous. Take the season off and go find a temporary hobby until this blows over.
It boggles the mind that our country has known about this for nine months and we still can't even come together on simple agreed-upon measures to keep our fellow citizens safe.
+!.
Imagine where we'd be if, from the outset, we knew masks also protects the wearers? At first it was 'Masks protect others, not necessarily you.' A lot of people are selfish as hell & could give AF about someone else's health.
My neighbor was telling me the incredible extremes they are going through just to get kids to be able to play tackle football. It's stupid and ridiculous. Take the season off and go find a temporary hobby until this blows over.
Except it’s obviously not to those who are going about their lives and seeing with their own eyes. Mental health is extremely important. Locking kids down who literally have a 99.9% survival rate from this is insane.
If you fear this you should take the precautions. Those who don’t can get on with their lives. If we see a negative fallout with our families I’ll change my mind but every family who walks thru our door knows the risk and willingly accepts it. And to reiterate we have had literally hundreds of kids participate with exactly 2 infections since June in what most would consider the highest of higH risk sports. Both resolved in under 48 hours with zero transmission to family members. Gut says it has to do with wrestlers being exposed to filth on the daily and having strong immune systems.
The Atillis Gym owner has also shown that over 50k people have come through his facility with ZERO negative effect.
Why not, rather than asking the majority of the population to do something unnatural for a small percentage of the population and accusing them of being selfish if they aren't enthusiastic about it, why not ask the smaller percentage of the population to protect themselves and have a much smaller group make the sacrifice. Why aren't those people selfish AF?
Seems like that makes much more sense.
but two sides of a coin I guess.
Why not, rather than asking the majority of the population to do something unnatural for a small percentage of the population and accusing them of being selfish if they aren't enthusiastic about it, why not ask the smaller percentage of the population to protect themselves and have a much smaller group make the sacrifice. Why aren't those people selfish AF?
Seems like that makes much more sense.
but two sides of a coin I guess.
Spot on!
Why not, rather than asking the majority of the population to do something unnatural for a small percentage of the population and accusing them of being selfish if they aren't enthusiastic about it, why not ask the smaller percentage of the population to protect themselves and have a much smaller group make the sacrifice. Why aren't those people selfish AF?
Seems like that makes much more sense.
but two sides of a coin I guess.
Huh? Wear a mask. It saves lives.
point is schools are 60% virtual (and tending to 100% virtual) in my town (because of a 8% positivity testing rate with very little hospitalizations and next to no deaths), sports are gone. In school the change is drastic too, masks all day, no talking, no recess, no real traditional social interaction.
Yes, this is a two-week suspension, but most people feel a resumption is unlikely.
these types of restrictions take a toll that goes well beyond "how many positive cases do we have" which is more often than not healthy people testing positive.
Masks do work. Young kids also spread the virus to each other and to parents. When cases rise, it becomes almost impossible to protect the most vulnerable. "Protect the vulnerable" is easy to say, impossible to actually do...nursing home workers go home TO KIDS...then go back to work the next day. Theres no bubble for the most vulnerable.
This reminds me of the guy I saw interviewed from Oklahoma. Thought it was all a hoax until his wife and daughter were in the hospital fighting for their lives. Put yourself in his shoes, might put sports in perspective. There's more to this than your wants/needs.
No anecdote...real interview, real person. I get your side, everything involved in this has consequences. Just think this is a time for a big picture perspective. Economy tanking and sports are completely different issues.
My son just had a checkup,..his doctor said "only" 125 kids have died nationwide. That's a minuscule number in the grand scheme...unless your kid is one of them.
I played sports professionally and still coach teams...I get their importance. However, lives are pretty precious too.
As my grandpa used to say..."this too shall pass."
It’s so silly. Masks aren’t a cure all but they have to help somewhat. Hey there’s a pandemic-“Well you can’t ask me to wear a mask.” Ok, we have to postpone some things because it’s getting out of control-“No! You can’t do that!”
Just wear the mask. If every single person did that from day one and kept up with it, the numbers would be better. How much better? I don’t know. But maybe good enough to keep things open longer or have less fear about keeping things running.
It’s so silly. Masks aren’t a cure all but they have to help somewhat. Hey there’s a pandemic-“Well you can’t ask me to wear a mask.” Ok, we have to postpone some things because it’s getting out of control-“No! You can’t do that!”
Just wear the mask. If every single person did that from day one and kept up with it, the numbers would be better. How much better? I don’t know. But maybe good enough to keep things open longer or have less fear about keeping things running.
Is anyone here arguing against wearing a mash in high risk environments?
I know I wear one inside a public space when required. That said back to our wrestling world and the kids are not wearing masks and nobody is getting sick so who knows.
If you click the link below you will see that the largest K-12 wrestling event in the country is taking place at this moment. I am not there as my son is injured but if he was healthy we would be there. I am watching it online and its a beautiful sight. Looks almost normal aside from the parents/fans in masks. I bet in two weeks you will hear nothing of a breakout. There have been about 8 of these types of events across the country the past few months with ZERO fallout. It really makes it difficult for me to agree with lockdowns and cancellations when I know this "high risk" sport has been happening with no negative results.
Super 32 - ( New Window )
Not trying to be snarky but what is the end game for any other natural disaster? Build infrastructure as durable as possible, have organizations like FEMA, change building codes, avoid high risk areas, etc. There's no way to prevent damage or completely solve - just mitigate and respond. We all know what the mitigations are here and unfortunately social distancing is one of them once the spread gets beyond certain controllable levels if the other mitigations don't work.
As an individual when I think about this compared to other natural disasters there are differences, some positive some negative. It's harder to see and prepare for but it's also a little easier to mitigate on an individual behavior level (not much anyone can do individually if there's a tornado heading right for me). It cost a lot of money but the commissioners of all the major sports have been able to develop protocols to keep their leagues open - which wouldn't be possible in the midst of a Tsunami. In theory similar protocols could be applicable beyond pro sports if resourced or made available to the general public.
There is a lot of collective disappointment in all of that for all of us (especially kids) but if you think about natural disasters, there's probably more hardship if your house or town gets destroyed by a Tornado. Or if you were devastated by Sandy or Katrina or Andrew or Harvey or Maria. I think all we can do is try to mitigate things as best we can - and it sounds like that's what your league is trying to do. Without any of us having perfect information it's hard to fault private organizations for making what are likely difficult decisions. I am sure the last people who wanted to stop operating that league were the people operating that league.
See link below with real world data from over 30 University campuses. We have gone from “don’t overwhelm the healthcare system” to “too many positive cases” it’s horse shit. My wife works in healthcare in the largest geriatric population in the state of Nj. The healthcare system is far from overwhelmed.
See with your own eyes. I see our wrestling world. I see my wife’s hospital numbers. Things are not adding up.
Read all the sub tweets as well. - ( New Window )
The country needs to get back at it. If you are scared or sick take the precautions you feel necessary. If we all need to wear masks in public when indoors and we cant social distance I guess that's fine but the lockdowns need to end.
More talking about the thread subject and youth sport lockdowns and cancellations but here in NJ the dining lockdown is going to get to be too much for the restaurants that were able to pivot on a dime and open outdoor spaces. Can't outdoor dine in January. I've visited my in-laws in Myrtle 3 times since this started. They are wide open and indoor dining has been going on since I believe June.
Also a lot of schools are shut still and the ones that are open are reacting to positive tastes and closing for periods at a time. This cannot sustain.
You are on LI right? Why aren't they playing football but many in surrounding areas are? Makes no sense!
Have you seen any images from inside the AC casinos? They are packed. Why? Money! I guess Covid is weakened in a smoke filled casino LOL
I posted this the other night. I think stuff like this is another reason a lot of us are fed up.
Nothing makes sense!!
The chaos and the rates of infection and the damage to the economy and people of America are like no other 1st order nation on earth. Basically, we in the US are the Giants or the Jets of covid, New Zealand is like the Pats I guess. Just like the entire NFL can execute a screen play, except the Giants for some reason, the entire first world is taking these essential steps and still managing to hold on to their freedom and free markets. But not us. It’s just completely insane. A year into this thing and we’re still arguing about if a mask helps prevent the spread of an airborne infectious disease.
It’s the old quip: “You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing. After they try everything else”.
Having nothing to do with a pandemic some restaurants don't allow people to wear hats in the dining room. Or mandate jackets and ties. Generally speaking and within the law private businesses can run their businesses however they please even if it seems silly, no?
In comment 15023118 BlueHurricane said:
I posted this the other night. I think stuff like this is another reason a lot of us are fed up.
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This is how absurd it has become. Just witnessed a gentleman standing at Old Causeway outside bar. He had a chair but for whatever reason he stood up for a second. Security immediately came over told him to put his mask on. They also said if he put his butt back on the chair the mask could come off. Mind you standing or sitting creates about a 6 inch difference in the level of his head.
Nothing makes sense!!
I'm not on the east coast any more but as a parent am 100% understanding of all those frustrated with the current situation and especially how it impacts kids like all the examples in thread. It just sucks. I wish my kids could have spent more time with their grandparents this year but even though they aren't that old they have risk factors that made it hard. We did spend time with them and will over the holidays but will do so carefully. So I am sympathetic to business owners (and work with many) who are making difficult decisions carefully with others in mind whether it's employees or their families who have risk factors, or if their communities have been hit particularly hard, or their environments are more/less challenging. I see a lot of every day people doing the best they can with good intentions even if the outcomes aren't always pleasant.
Having nothing to do with a pandemic some restaurants don't allow people to wear hats in the dining room. Or mandate jackets and ties. Generally speaking and within the law private businesses can run their businesses however they please even if it seems silly, no?
In comment 15023118 BlueHurricane said:
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I posted this the other night. I think stuff like this is another reason a lot of us are fed up.
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This is how absurd it has become. Just witnessed a gentleman standing at Old Causeway outside bar. He had a chair but for whatever reason he stood up for a second. Security immediately came over told him to put his mask on. They also said if he put his butt back on the chair the mask could come off. Mind you standing or sitting creates about a 6 inch difference in the level of his head.
Nothing makes sense!!
That’s just it. It’s not the restaurant owner that made that stupid rule. It’s our fucktard Governor and his cronies. Any sane human would question the ridiculousness of mask on if butt not on barstool and off if it is.
That’s just it. It’s not the restaurant owner that made that stupid rule. It’s our fucktard Governor and his cronies. Any sane human would question the ridiculousness of mask on if butt not on barstool and off if it is.
some public transport allows people to stand and hold railings, some require sitting with seatbelts on. The airplane seatbelt rules when taxing on the runway are just as nonsensical. That is life in a society, there are going to be some rules that are inconvenient like taking our shoes off at airports. In this case there are rules because there's a lot of people that won't abide the basics. Especially w/r/t bars since there's been a ton of data to support them as major spreading areas.
I also think we have a lot of children getting to spend more time with their parents then they ever did before—granted their are some parents that this can be a dangerous traumatic increase for.
I have been amazed by the strength of character of those you meet that went through the Holocaust or other genocides and have experienced horrible things.
Hopefully we come out of this knowing what we have to do to prevent things like this happening in the future, but I imagine that their may be some unforeseen positives along with the negative consequences everyone has outlined as well. I also understand that I may be completely wrong.
I also think we have a lot of children getting to spend more time with their parents then they ever did before—granted their are some parents that this can be a dangerous traumatic increase for.
I have been amazed by the strength of character of those you meet that went through the Holocaust or other genocides and have experienced horrible things.
Hopefully we come out of this knowing what we have to do to prevent things like this happening in the future, but I imagine that their may be some unforeseen positives along with the negative consequences everyone has outlined as well. I also understand that I may be completely wrong.
good perspective. I like it. As a parent of three and a coach of many, I maybe see a specific slice of the impact and I think we are not doing enough (or the right thing) where the kids are concerned, but my experience is clearly impacting my thoughts. I'd love to be wrong.
So we do we just say f'it nd let herd immunity take over, putting our vulnerable at high risk, or do we sacrifice the development of our youth? Tough call
So we do we just say f'it nd let herd immunity take over, putting our vulnerable at high risk, or do we sacrifice the development of our youth? Tough call
So we do we just say f'it nd let herd immunity take over, putting our vulnerable at high risk, or do we sacrifice the development of our youth? Tough call
I feel like this post was started out of frustration and I just feel like by now this should be over. But it's not and I'm not interested in finger pointing or blame game bullshit. No one knows how the F to stop this.
That said it still seems like to me there has to be a way to protect the vulnerable and limit the interruption to the less vulnerable and I feel like sports, social activity, and human interaction HAVE to take precedence over general well being of others. maybe that's selfish, but the cliche could be true that we reach and inflection point where the cure is worse than the disease.
I also think we have a lot of children getting to spend more time with their parents then they ever did before—granted their are some parents that this can be a dangerous traumatic increase for.
I have been amazed by the strength of character of those you meet that went through the Holocaust or other genocides and have experienced horrible things.
Hopefully we come out of this knowing what we have to do to prevent things like this happening in the future, but I imagine that their may be some unforeseen positives along with the negative consequences everyone has outlined as well. I also understand that I may be completely wrong.
I think there's a lot of truth in this and the biggest takeaway I've had from this is seeing how well the kids have handled things that I'd never imagined. Granted young kids are generally more adaptable, but watching them abide the rules that go against normal human instincts and really grasp the concept of doing something inconvenient to protect someone else (without complaint) does make me optimistic that they are developing critical skills that will serve them well in the future.
Separately and not to miller the thread I also think generally speaking there's been a lot that younger generations have shouldered for a while that gets lost in the reflexive millennial bashing. Many started their careers or were at the early stages when the financial crash happened and got accustomed to a normal that mainly featured layoffs, hiring freezes, salary freezes, promotion freezes, etc. While shouldering record high debts (both part of why so many had to live at home). Those born in the early 80's were also the fighting age group post 9/11 who've seen more combat over the last 15-20 years than most other generations. So while unique I don't see this as an entirely black swan event for younger generations, but rather the next thing that has impacted our younger generation as they are trying to get a foothold on their place in the world. Whether their education has been interrupted, or their part time service job, or their sport/hobby.
So on the positive side perhaps this is something that refocuses our society on the need to find ways to better prepare our kids for success by creating ways for them to utilize/develop key skills we as a society need them to develop as they are needed entering the workforce - and there's a renewed enthusiasm on solving this that wouldn't have existed if things continued as usual (specifically the rising costs of education and debt). Some kind of national service program engaging in the community (whether it's volunteering w/ local gov or first responders, teaching, developing some other kinds of skills - in this specific situation they could have helped deliver food to people or do contact tracing as other countries did) incentivized by helping those kids qualify for something of value in the future (like lower interest rates or grant $) seems like something that could be a win win.
More detail + some full reports linked on twitter here - ( New Window )