I was someone that stumped for him since his senior year at NDSU. The injury concern was always real, but I thought his play would overcome missing a few games a year. He is certainly not that guy. Pretty clear he was a product of Reich and the talent on that team. He's literally Sam Darnold out there. Sam Darnold with a ridiculous contract. Just wildly inconsistent. No way he is worth that contract.
Despite that, Wentz throw 27 TDs/7 INTs, completed 64% of his passed, threw for 4K, ran for 250, had a 65 QBR, and got his team to the playoffs.
I wouldn't call that "QB hell".
He's off to a slow start this year - indeed - but he's dealing with even more injuries and rotating skill players. So it's clear he's pressing and trying to do too much.
Once they start to get healthy, and the year finishes, let's revisit this.
My guess is the numbers will significantly improve and Philly is in the playoffs. Again.
I hope I'm wrong but I don't think DJ will get a big 2nd contract. That puts the Giants in QB hell...not knowing when to move on. Hopefully we get Lawrence and the decision is obvious.
If Wentz can get thru it healhty the next few years then they might have a chance, but I think they are taking some lumps the next few years.
I don't think it's the same. DJ just doesn't seem to trust his reads and can't pull the trigger.
Wentz is holding onto the ball because he's looking for the bigger play.
Big difference - IMV.
There is a lot to like with that gunslinger attitude to a degree. But he's much too arrogant with it...
To me QB hell is having a guy that warrants a 2nd contract but isn’t good/healthy enough to overcome the resources needed to pay him detracting from the team.
Wentz throws the ball better left-handed than Hurts does right-handed. You are out of your mind on this. ;)
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but it’s all been trash. Guy has an injury history and is playing poor. This is year 5. He should be elevating his teammates at this point that’s my point. And last night is a great example of stat lines being pretty meaningless. No scout in their right mind thinks DJ didn’t outplay Wentz last night. Just listened to Brooks 10 minutes ago on FS1 say he thinks he’s he Hiants win the east based on what he saw last night and how poor wentz has been this year. That Jaylon Hurts pick makes more and more sense.
Wentz throws the ball better left-handed than Hurts does right-handed. You are out of your mind on this. ;)
Did I say Hurts was beter than Wentz? Of cours not, but he does give you a different look and probably one where the turnovers are kept to the minimum. Wouldn't suprrise me to see Hurts get a half or a game or two. Need to do something to motivate Wentz. Worked on Rodgers thats for sure. The way Wentz is playing its only a matter of time before he has a 4 turnover game.
I recall before the draft Wentz was discussing his health and how long would he plan to play taking hits to his head etc. In some ways the impression was if he took a few to many hits, especially to his head, he was considering hanging it up.
A few weeks later Eagles draft a QB early in the draft. If not for listening to this report would have thought it was draft a QB of interest and trade him for more. Honestly think it was a move related to replacement.
Would not say its QB Hell, its still on course within their plan.
You lost your bird on this. This team has shown to be non competitive in every way. Jones can only win against the Washington skins.
And even then. You are getting jones neutered and being out played by Kyle Allen .... Kyle Allen !!
Or you’re getting loose Jones and turning over the ball.
Then again I think Eli was nuetered by slick hair / big suit. He was a gunslinger too like went shopping before he became a check downer. Surely some analytics nerd convinced the Mara family Eli needed to be a short pass game 70 percent complete thrower to win another game at the show or some nonsense
Because I would think taking your 8 back ups and throwing a game winning 40 yard TD tonyour back up running back — that means elevating other people.
Just like when a number one pick in the draft takes backups to pro bowlers ; takes an undrafted kid out of umass ; and third round RB and wins at the show with them against the goat — that’s also elevating people
His team has bene trash the past two years. He still got his team to playoffs last year.
I also think part of his lunatic play is attributed to the coach's lunatic style. he takes on the coach's personality.
I'm not expecting Wentz to set the world on fire with this cast, but most the poor play from QB is isolated from what is going on around him. Missed throws and poor decisions with time in the pocket are all on the QB.
Wentz had a good football team last year. His WR's sucked for most the year, but he got the last hurrah out of his line and they had a nice stable of RBs and TEs.
This year is a completely different picture, this Eagles offense is bad talentwise.
Clement missed 12 games.
DJax missed basically the entire year.
Sproles missed half the season.
Jeffrey missed the last quarter of the season.
Peters missed three games.
Johnson missed three games.
Agholor missed the last three games.
That's a lot games for some key players.
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in a second. Wentz is a tough SOB who plays to win. He makes bad decisions and holds the ball too long...but so does DJ.
I don't think it's the same. DJ just doesn't seem to trust his reads and can't pull the trigger.
Wentz is holding onto the ball because he's looking for the bigger play.
Big difference - IMV.
I agree...but I'm cool with that if I'm an Eagle fan. Gota have a QB that can put the team on his back at times...I've yet to see anything close to that by DJ this year. Wentz has "it" IMO...DJ looks like a top tier game manager.
I've been a Oklahoma Sooner fan my whole life...Hurts is a great kid and hard worker, but he'll never be a franchise QB. If you think DJ is bad at going through progressions, Hurts takes it to another level. He's a one look and take off running QB. I was surprised how slow he looked running last night...that's where I thought he'd help the Eagles.
He’s young. Very good athlete. Playing with 4-6 starters on offense missing all year. Darnold??
Clement missed 12 games.
DJax missed basically the entire year.
Sproles missed half the season.
Jeffrey missed the last quarter of the season.
Peters missed three games.
Johnson missed three games.
Agholor missed the last three games.
That's a lot games for some key players.
+10000000000000
This is why I usually disagree with Zeke. I think he makes things up.
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on offense.
Clement missed 12 games.
DJax missed basically the entire year.
Sproles missed half the season.
Jeffrey missed the last quarter of the season.
Peters missed three games.
Johnson missed three games.
Agholor missed the last three games.
That's a lot games for some key players.
+10000000000000
This is why I usually disagree with Zeke. I think he makes things up.
Is this a serious list? That looks like any NFL teams injury report over the course of a the year.
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on offense.
Clement missed 12 games.
DJax missed basically the entire year.
Sproles missed half the season.
Jeffrey missed the last quarter of the season.
Peters missed three games.
Johnson missed three games.
Agholor missed the last three games.
That's a lot games for some key players.
+10000000000000
This is why I usually disagree with Zeke. I think he makes things up.
Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah were both professional scout and they both think the Eagles have a major question mark at QB. It's not like this opinion is coming out left field. The decision making is awful for a 5th year QB.
I didn't say he was on Darnold's level, but they both are similar players and have similar strengths and weaknesses. Hence the comparison. Jesus people love putting words in people's mouths here. Are you his buddy or something? Who gives a shit about his charity work?
Of course, my two cents is consistently probably only worth one cents. I’m among the people who thought the Giants would be a playoff contender this year, so consider the source .....
Of course, my two cents is consistently probably only worth one cents. I’m among the people who thought the Giants would be a playoff contender this year, so consider the source .....
Leadership? There’s a ton of reports over the years that players don’t like Wentz at all. He is tough and he does make plays, but the flip side of that is according to the advanced analytics he is one of the most inaccurate QBs in the league and his decision making is incredibly suspect. When I refer to QB hell I think of a guy like Wentz who commands top dollar, who is a good, but not great QB and you need to invest into the backup position because his health was suspect. His own coach barely sounds committed to him.
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In comment 15022708 bw in dc said:
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on offense.
Clement missed 12 games.
DJax missed basically the entire year.
Sproles missed half the season.
Jeffrey missed the last quarter of the season.
Peters missed three games.
Johnson missed three games.
Agholor missed the last three games.
That's a lot games for some key players.
+10000000000000
This is why I usually disagree with Zeke. I think he makes things up.
Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah were both professional scout and they both think the Eagles have a major question mark at QB. It's not like this opinion is coming out left field. The decision making is awful for a 5th year QB.
They said Philly was in QB hell? In QB hell - doesn't it mean you will continually suck?
I question your comment of them saying "they have major questions."
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In comment 15022708 bw in dc said:
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on offense.
Clement missed 12 games.
DJax missed basically the entire year.
Sproles missed half the season.
Jeffrey missed the last quarter of the season.
Peters missed three games.
Johnson missed three games.
Agholor missed the last three games.
That's a lot games for some key players.
+10000000000000
This is why I usually disagree with Zeke. I think he makes things up.
Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah were both professional scout and they both think the Eagles have a major question mark at QB. It's not like this opinion is coming out left field. The decision making is awful for a 5th year QB.
What I meant is your QB Hell isn't really QB Hell. You're definition in not the norm. Many teams have overpaid QB's don't they? And some of the teams are still pretty good, aren't they? You're making up QB Hell to fit your narrative.
Okay suppose your definition of QB Hell is fine-- then what stats or number of wins does he need to show to no longer fit/bypass your criteria?
Is it possible that you will continually move the bar unless he wins a super bowl because you just don't like him? You can have "concerns" for him but it doesn't mean a team is in "Hell" does it? "Hell" is as low as you can go.
I seriously doubt Bucky and others are saying Wentz is about as low as you can go. That's why I suggested you made it up. So with your definition - what criteria do you have to not being in "your Hell?"
Bucky and Jeremiah were both saying last night that you can’t have a QB in his 5th year making the mistakes he’s making and the reason people stay tantalized is because he makes the amazing play occasionally. The NFL isn’t about the occasional play, it’s about down in down our consistently. QB hell is not drafting a QB who sucks, it’s throwing resources at a QB that will keep your from winning a Super Bowl.
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... that there only a handful of players in the NFL I’d rather have on the Giants than Wentz. Tough as nails, a playmaker, a leadership asset, and even factoring in injuries and turnovers, the kind of guy who would form the heart of a winning franchise.
Of course, my two cents is consistently probably only worth one cents. I’m among the people who thought the Giants would be a playoff contender this year, so consider the source .....
Leadership? There’s a ton of reports over the years that players don’t like Wentz at all. He is tough and he does make plays, but the flip side of that is according to the advanced analytics he is one of the most inaccurate QBs in the league and his decision making is incredibly suspect. When I refer to QB hell I think of a guy like Wentz who commands top dollar, who is a good, but not great QB and you need to invest into the backup position because his health was suspect. His own coach barely sounds committed to him.
Leadership is taking 50 hits and leading your ragtag offense to a win. It’s not about being popular.
What does take your team "over-the-hill" mean in your definition?
Win Super Bowl or bust?
Bucky and Jeremiah were both saying last night that you can’t have a QB in his 5th year making the mistakes he’s making and the reason people stay tantalized is because he makes the amazing play occasionally. The NFL isn’t about the occasional play, it’s about down in down our consistently. QB hell is not drafting a QB who sucks, it’s throwing resources at a QB that will keep your from winning a Super Bowl.
So all these years the Chargers were in QB Hell when they had Rivers? He never got them over the hill.
No one is really talking about it but it was the plays Wentz made, especially with his feet, that sustained their drives in the second half. It was almost like he said “screw it” and carried the team on his back.
Wentz has his faults and he loses some games he should win, but that was a heck of performance on Thursday.
Wentz had a fantastic performance on Thursday? Yeh I’m done with this thread, no one in their right mind would judge Wentz’s performance even good. Great throw on to Boston Scott, but holistically his play was poor.
He's a much more gifted thrower than Jones, IMV. His ability to hang in the pocket, with pressure and debris all of the place, and still make plays is different stuff. Of course, too often he offsets those positives with boneheaded negatives...
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In comment 15023053 Jim from Katonah said:
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... that there only a handful of players in the NFL I’d rather have on the Giants than Wentz. Tough as nails, a playmaker, a leadership asset, and even factoring in injuries and turnovers, the kind of guy who would form the heart of a winning franchise.
Of course, my two cents is consistently probably only worth one cents. I’m among the people who thought the Giants would be a playoff contender this year, so consider the source .....
Leadership? There’s a ton of reports over the years that players don’t like Wentz at all. He is tough and he does make plays, but the flip side of that is according to the advanced analytics he is one of the most inaccurate QBs in the league and his decision making is incredibly suspect. When I refer to QB hell I think of a guy like Wentz who commands top dollar, who is a good, but not great QB and you need to invest into the backup position because his health was suspect. His own coach barely sounds committed to him.
Leadership is taking 50 hits and leading your ragtag offense to a win. It’s not about being popular.
It’s not about being popular, it’s about respect. As the QB you are the field general and need to get buyin from the lockerroom around you. Wentz isn’t that guy. The Giants threw away that game as much as the Eagles won. Getting beat deep badly there is inexcusable. Not sure if I’m more pissed.at Ryan or Graham for not just playing 2 man at that point. Play 2 man the rest of that game up 11 and we win. It’s the defensive equivalent of just not running the ball to ice game. Just because the Giants threw the game away doesn’t mean Wentz is a leader.
He's a much more gifted thrower than Jones, IMV. His ability to hang in the pocket, with pressure and debris all of the place, and still make plays is different stuff. Of course, too often he offsets those positives with boneheaded negatives...
Gifted thrower? Wentz could let hold DJs jock as far as being accurate. He’s got a stronger arm but that’s it.
Gifted thrower? Wentz could let hold DJs jock as far as being accurate. He’s got a stronger arm but that’s it.
Jones career completion % is 61.9%.
Wentz is 63.2%.
Wentz had a fantastic performance on Thursday? Yeh I’m done with this thread, no one in their right mind would judge Wentz’s performance even good. Great throw on to Boston Scott, but holistically his play was poor.
Your comment here is extremely subjective. You refuse to acknowledge last year's Eagles offense was garbage without Wentz in 2019 yet you blame everything else on non-Rivers.
I don't think either was/is in Hell. I think you have made up QB Hell to fit your agenda because you just don't like Wentz. Tell me why anyone should believe that you will ever blast all the other positions on offense from Philly and not blame Wentz instead any time they don't win a Super Bowl? You have already started to move the goal posts haven't you when you spoke of "Wentz getting his team over the hill" but I just mention ONE QB and all of sudden you throw in other factors. Why should anyone believe you that you won't continue to throw in other factors?
Because imo your definition of QB Hell is not what is generally prescribed. IMO you have made up QB Hell to fit your narrative. That's fine but now I ask for criteria and you move the goal posts.
You'll just continually say "Wentz didn't make them better" because you are going to hold him to standard of "Win the Super Bowl or bust," isn't that right? Unless you are a superstar QB there is bound to be 1 game the QB struggles, right? SO what's to stop you from blasting him after nay 1 playoff game - even if they win?
He's a much more gifted thrower than Jones, IMV. His ability to hang in the pocket, with pressure and debris all of the place, and still make plays is different stuff. Of course, too often he offsets those positives with boneheaded negatives...
Link - ( New Window )
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Gifted thrower? Wentz could let hold DJs jock as far as being accurate. He’s got a stronger arm but that’s it.
Jones career completion % is 61.9%.
Wentz is 63.2%.
Wentz true accuracy rate is among the lowest in football since 2016, holding company with Fitz, Trubusky, and Jamies. Yeah real accurate QB there.
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He consistently played with garbage OL in front of him, some of the worst in the league and a seriously overrated overpaid RB. Rivers is the type of QB that can make his weapons look better but needs to be supported with an oline. That was a team building failure.
Wentz had a fantastic performance on Thursday? Yeh I’m done with this thread, no one in their right mind would judge Wentz’s performance even good. Great throw on to Boston Scott, but holistically his play was poor.
Your comment here is extremely subjective. You refuse to acknowledge last year's Eagles offense was garbage without Wentz in 2019 yet you blame everything else on non-Rivers.
I don't think either was/is in Hell. I think you have made up QB Hell to fit your agenda because you just don't like Wentz. Tell me why anyone should believe that you will ever blast all the other positions on offense from Philly and not blame Wentz instead any time they don't win a Super Bowl? You have already started to move the goal posts haven't you when you spoke of "Wentz getting his team over the hill" but I just mention ONE QB and all of sudden you throw in other factors. Why should anyone believe you that you won't continue to throw in other factors?
Because imo your definition of QB Hell is not what is generally prescribed. IMO you have made up QB Hell to fit your narrative. That's fine but now I ask for criteria and you move the goal posts.
You'll just continually say "Wentz didn't make them better" because you are going to hold him to standard of "Win the Super Bowl or bust," isn't that right? Unless you are a superstar QB there is bound to be 1 game the QB struggles, right? SO what's to stop you from blasting him after nay 1 playoff game - even if they win?
Wentz true accuracy percentage is among the lowest in football since he entered the league and his decision making is still suspect in year 5. Paying a guy like that 35 million isn’t the same ballpark as Rivers throughout his prime.
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In comment 15023232 Zeke's Alibi said:
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Gifted thrower? Wentz could let hold DJs jock as far as being accurate. He’s got a stronger arm but that’s it.
Jones career completion % is 61.9%.
Wentz is 63.2%.
Wentz true accuracy rate is among the lowest in football since 2016, holding company with Fitz, Trubusky, and Jamies. Yeah real accurate QB there.
Why does "2016" count? We are talking 2020 and going forward, right? This thread you created is about going forward to a 2nd contract so why are using 2016 data?
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In comment 15023219 Zeke's Alibi said:
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He consistently played with garbage OL in front of him, some of the worst in the league and a seriously overrated overpaid RB. Rivers is the type of QB that can make his weapons look better but needs to be supported with an oline. That was a team building failure.
Wentz had a fantastic performance on Thursday? Yeh I’m done with this thread, no one in their right mind would judge Wentz’s performance even good. Great throw on to Boston Scott, but holistically his play was poor.
Your comment here is extremely subjective. You refuse to acknowledge last year's Eagles offense was garbage without Wentz in 2019 yet you blame everything else on non-Rivers.
I don't think either was/is in Hell. I think you have made up QB Hell to fit your agenda because you just don't like Wentz. Tell me why anyone should believe that you will ever blast all the other positions on offense from Philly and not blame Wentz instead any time they don't win a Super Bowl? You have already started to move the goal posts haven't you when you spoke of "Wentz getting his team over the hill" but I just mention ONE QB and all of sudden you throw in other factors. Why should anyone believe you that you won't continue to throw in other factors?
Because imo your definition of QB Hell is not what is generally prescribed. IMO you have made up QB Hell to fit your narrative. That's fine but now I ask for criteria and you move the goal posts.
You'll just continually say "Wentz didn't make them better" because you are going to hold him to standard of "Win the Super Bowl or bust," isn't that right? Unless you are a superstar QB there is bound to be 1 game the QB struggles, right? SO what's to stop you from blasting him after nay 1 playoff game - even if they win?
Wentz true accuracy percentage is among the lowest in football since he entered the league and his decision making is still suspect in year 5. Paying a guy like that 35 million isn’t the same ballpark as Rivers throughout his prime.
So we can't blame bad decision making on Jones because his team's lack of talent yet this years Philly team has lack of talent yet we're going to rip Wentz on his decision-making?
Anyhow-- please define the stat that in gets him our of your hell. If you are going to go back to his rookie year and compile the stats - then he could have a super year and you could still say he is in Hell. He could lose 41-40 in Super Bowl with among highest QB rating ever yet his career stats show he is not so great then you can continue with your subjective (imo bias) opinion.
SO all I'm asking is what stats get him out your Hell? You use subjective terms like "get over the hill" which imo you are going to continuously use as part of your bias narrative. Prove me wrong going forward - for next year and after what is "Over the hump" in your view?
So no offense but I think you make things up (just as you are making up what QB Hell is and who you define in it) - so in this case tell me what you feel in 2021 Wentz needs to show to show that he isn't "QB Hell." It seems like you want to use "2016" data to knock down anything he might achieve in 2021. If you do - that shows a bias imo. Specifically my question is for 2021 and potentially future.