LOL, I keep my draft capital separate from my draft picks so I don't get them mixed up. They look so similar.
Do you need to have this explained to you again?
I thought you were a BCG or McKinsey guy? You know the difference between headcount and payroll, right? That's the difference between draft picks and draft capital.
Now let's hope that Evan Engram, Kevin Zeitler, and Leonard Williams are next.
I would be shocked to see LW go. If we could get good value for Tomlinson though I'd mind the LW trade less.
I think I'd honestly prefer to retain Tomlinson and deal LW. I still think LW's got that brand-name price tag that Tomlinson has never had, and they're otherwise very similar dirty work DL players. But either way, I'd be pleased if we got something of value for one and extended the other, which would allow us to rebalance the roster a bit from the DL-heavy allocation that it currently carries.
GD definitely with you would 100% prefer to trade Williams
because we'd get more and Tomlinson is sure to cost less and I also see them as similar players.
Was just saying what I think DG would do. And IMO trading one of them is better than paying all 3 of Williams, Tomlinson, Lawrence, honestly I'm not thrilled at giving two of those guys big contracts either but assuming "fair" value don't mind trading Tomlinson as I'm resigned to Williams signing a massive deal this offseason at this point.
Even with X and Carter Hurt, they traded Golden. I liked Browns Snaps last night, and I thing we may see Coughlin as well.
I hope they consider something creative for Peppers. He's not a deep back, and they may as well try to find a spot to put his athleticism to work. Can he be a strong piece? We're officially wasting time with Him, now.
trade as many of the following as you can and get whatever you can
LW won't be worth the money he will want next year. Peppers won't be worth a second contract. Zeitler is near the end and is blocking Lemiuex. Tomlinson is a run stuffer who won't be worth a second contract, and he is playing Lawrence's best position, and Tate is washed.
so good move. Golden clearly didn't fit the new scheme. Since he signing him as a UFA they essentially paid about $2m for a 6th round pick. That seems like good value.
Contrary to what seems like the mainstream opinion I hope they are judicious in who they trade. Guys like Golden who aren't a fit and don't have a future? C'est la vie. Maybe Peppers is on that list. Maybe Tate and Zeitler too. Engram is an affordable threat so I'd be less urgent to dump him if it's only going to be a day 3 pick. And LW is a guy I'd much rather have playing for the next few years than just adding a mid-round pick.
asked Tomlinson if he thought he could get traded. Wonder if reporter heard something or he's just throwing stuff at the wall?
On this or another thread someone pointed out that Johnson looked pretty good. Lawrence ain't going anywhere. Cannot see Williams and DT staying here. So, something's gotta give. Don't know if it will come down to a choice between those DT & LW though......do you trade DT away not knowing LW will sign for acceptable numbers?
Giants play hardball with Golden in the offseason and retain him at a low cost, because no other team is willing to pay him more. Meanwhile, Giants are developing several promising linebackers. Now, after not really performing up to last year's level, maybe there was a reason other teams did not match the Giants' salary. Yet, the Giants still manage to get a low draft pick for Golden.
How is this an indictment of Gettleman? Not seeing it.
asked Tomlinson if he thought he could get traded. Wonder if reporter heard something or he's just throwing stuff at the wall?
On this or another thread someone pointed out that Johnson looked pretty good. Lawrence ain't going anywhere. Cannot see Williams and DT staying here. So, something's gotta give. Don't know if it will come down to a choice between those DT & LW though......do you trade DT away not knowing LW will sign for acceptable numbers?
The way I see it, we have nobody else coming up for a contract (yea, Barkley, but....) and those two have been a great strength of ours. Bradberry os signed. I dont see us going nuts in FA. Likely we are more focused on the draft. Having Hill, DT, LW and DL as our front protects a qeak LB corps and secondary. I think we sign them both.
whichever one they don't want to bring back next year. No way we shell out $$ to bring both back as FAs. The coaching staff should have a pretty good idea by now. Gotta get something and both have at least some value, even in a walk year.
whichever one they don't want to bring back next year. No way we shell out $$ to bring both back as FAs. The coaching staff should have a pretty good idea by now. Gotta get something and both have at least some value, even in a walk year.
Wouldn't we get decent Comp picks if we don't resign them?
Once you realize that you, sitting on your couch in Paramus, have gotten closer to opposing quarterbacks this season than golden....you will see that paying his game many zeroes game checks are a waste of the mara's monies.....88 has to be cut loose too....but most of all to blame is the systemic scouting and talent evaluating giants mechanism...to win it really has to be torn out root and branch from the teams scouting pipeline. accumulating so many wasted picks.......especially in their consideration for character and talent. from blowing their hands to bits from forth of July m-80's to performing in armed robberies, to crashing their trucks into poles, to taking decrepit boat trips.....it just goes on and on is a shit parade of selfishness towards their team. D>G must be freed up to do for other nfl team what he has done for the 1 and 5 giants.
Once you realize that you, sitting on your couch in Paramus, have gotten closer to opposing quarterbacks this season than golden....you will see that paying his game many zeroes game checks are a waste of the mara's monies.....88 has to be cut loose too....but most of all to blame is the systemic scouting and talent evaluating giants mechanism...to win it really has to be torn out root and branch from the teams scouting pipeline. accumulating so many wasted picks.......especially in their consideration for character and talent. from blowing their hands to bits from forth of July m-80's to performing in armed robberies, to crashing their trucks into poles, to taking decrepit boat trips.....it just goes on and on is a shit parade of selfishness towards their team. D>G must be freed up to do for other nfl team what he has done for the 1 and 5 giants.
Ummm errrr yeah... Marcus Golden was never a "D.G. pick".
He was a low cost FA pickup who, after playing about 1.5 years with the Giants, netted them a low draft pick via a trade back to the team that originally let him go...
That's called "free money"... This was a plus move by Getts. Admittedly a lucky one perhaps more than skillful, but still a good move.
And if the Giants found 2 players who can have a role in their d schemes, (Crowder and Cam Brown),or even 3 (Coughlin?) among their 4 bottom of the barrel picks at LB and DB from the 2020 draft, that is a HUGE win.
in a scheme only he seemed to be able to understand.
I was disappointed he didn't make more of an impact this year, though his name was called a little more in recent weeks. His size is a big issue, and once he had to be on the field more often in the run game with Zo going down, he was exposed as a major liability.
Makes sense to get him out of here for something, and give the time to the young pups.
who cares. 6th rounders don't amount to anything. I wish Markus well. Why people get excited about picks after the 4th round is ridiculous.
This is stupid. Just one example of the stupidity, Tae Crowder was a 7th round pick. He became the starting LB by the 6th game and played very well. Players can be found late in the draft. And it’s even likely they can contribute more than a guy that wasnt going to be on the team next season anyways...
whichever one they don't want to bring back next year. No way we shell out $$ to bring both back as FAs. The coaching staff should have a pretty good idea by now. Gotta get something and both have at least some value, even in a walk year.
Wouldn't we get decent Comp picks if we don't resign them?
Guess it depends what they sign for, obviously a team pick trumps a comp pick and you don’t have to roll the dice on what round they will compensate you, plus and FA signings we make cancel those out from my understanding which can limit your hand if your playing that game. I think it’s a wise idea, especially if they can return a late 3rd for one of them to help a playoff team improve.
RE: Not sure how anyone can see this as a negative.
Giants play hardball with Golden in the offseason and retain him at a low cost, because no other team is willing to pay him more. Meanwhile, Giants are developing several promising linebackers. Now, after not really performing up to last year's level, maybe there was a reason other teams did not match the Giants' salary. Yet, the Giants still manage to get a low draft pick for Golden.
How is this an indictment of Gettleman? Not seeing it.
This. Gettleman definitely needs to be canned, but this was a good move. Giants basically paid $3.5 million to add a 6th round draft pick.
He knows it's audition time if he wants to get paid, and possibly traded to a better team. Same with LW, tho he's compensation floor should be much higher.
Giants apparently couldn't get the draft pick they wanted for him last off-season, not sure they'll do better now. Maybe a #4 could be had from a team like the Bills.
Rumor is the Bills are very interested in one of our DTs
How about Dawson Knox and a 3rd for Evan Engram and Leonard Williams?
I'd Engram and a DT for a 2nd and a conditional pick if the DT resigns. Maybe I'd do a 3rd if the deal included Tomlinson, but not Williams.
I would want more too but seeing what Ngakoue just went for has lowered my expectations. I would like to re-sign Williams but only for $13-14 million per season. He is not going to accept that so I would rather get something for him now rather than nothing this offseason.
RE: RE: RE: Rumor is the Bills are very interested in one of our DTs
Engram and LW seems a bit much for this guy. But I really don't know his potential Jay.
I also suggested a 3rd round pick with Knox. Knox was a very popular TE around here by some during the draft. He has the potential to be a very good receiving TE. I don't know much about his blocking but he can't be worse than Engram.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Rumor is the Bills are very interested in one of our DTs
Engram and LW seems a bit much for this guy. But I really don't know his potential Jay.
I also suggested a 3rd round pick with Knox. Knox was a very popular TE around here by some during the draft. He has the potential to be a very good receiving TE. I don't know much about his blocking but he can't be worse than Engram.
Missed the 3rd rd pick...my bad.
I think a 3rd could be struck for LW alone...hoping. So that would be a swap of TEs if I sized him up correctly which probably Buffalo doesn't do.
As infuriated as I am with Engram after that drop Thursday I am selling him no matter what.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Rumor is the Bills are very interested in one of our DTs
How about Dawson Knox and a 3rd for Evan Engram and Leonard Williams?
I'd Engram and a DT for a 2nd and a conditional pick if the DT resigns. Maybe I'd do a 3rd if the deal included Tomlinson, but not Williams.
I would want more too but seeing what Ngakoue just went for has lowered my expectations. I would like to re-sign Williams but only for $13-14 million per season. He is not going to accept that so I would rather get something for him now rather than nothing this offseason.
I see Williams and Ngakoue as not far off as assets, and you are including Engram too. JMO but that is enough value to go from a 3 to a 2.
Also different than Minnesota, we want to resign Williams whereas they have major cap issues. I don't view the 13-14m number as reasonable FMV (if it were a normal offseason). The realistic comp is Grady Jarrett ($17m) who is a similar level player, from LW's same draft class, and who also got tagged and later extended. I'd sign LW to that extension and I think the NYG would too, though it seems LW wanted more than that. If he's intractable on that I'd trade him but only if it's more than I'd get via a comp pick if someone else were willing to pay the higher price. Otherwise I'd expect to be able to resign him.
I'm partial to this point of view, but if they like Lemiuex I could be convinced on Zeitler - especially if it's close to a top 100 pick (4th rounder).
Tate slightly less so only because I don't think anyone is giving up that kind of pick for him and I view the potential replacements as much lesser. It's not totally inconceivable that Lemieux is almost as good as Zeitler right away in the same way Peart has looked like an upgrade right away. The Pats drafted a guard in the 6th round this year who has been very good. You can get lucky with interior lineman late (just like Diehl/Seubert).
I would trade Zeitler because of Shane Lemieux. Zeitler is playing poorly and his cap number will prevent him from returning next season unless he agreed to a pay cut but I doubt that occurs. Lemieux has impressed the coaching staff since his arrival and appears to be a future starter there. Give Lemieux a trial run for the rest of the season and if he falters the Giants know that they need to find a replacement this offseason.
As for Tate I would prefer to hang onto him because I doubt that they receiver anything better than a 6th round pick for him. I don't want to get rid of Jones' few weapons unless a team offers a surprising offer.
And apparently not a good skill fit for the scheme. Zeitler ,Tate and Engram need to stay , Jones needs all the help he can get to continue to improve this year. No one who can immediately replace them Is better . My bigger concern is OT, hope by EOY they indentify 2 solid starters.
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In comment 15022434 pjcas18 said:
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the "get more draft picks" crowd is ecstatic.
The ever essential "draft capital" replenishment
LOL, I keep my draft capital separate from my draft picks so I don't get them mixed up. They look so similar.
Do you need to have this explained to you again?
I thought you were a BCG or McKinsey guy? You know the difference between headcount and payroll, right? That's the difference between draft picks and draft capital.
Or maybe you're just obtuse?
Lil' Greg, shut the fuck up. Why do you keep talking?
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Now let's hope that Evan Engram, Kevin Zeitler, and Leonard Williams are next.
I would be shocked to see LW go. If we could get good value for Tomlinson though I'd mind the LW trade less.
I think I'd honestly prefer to retain Tomlinson and deal LW. I still think LW's got that brand-name price tag that Tomlinson has never had, and they're otherwise very similar dirty work DL players. But either way, I'd be pleased if we got something of value for one and extended the other, which would allow us to rebalance the roster a bit from the DL-heavy allocation that it currently carries.
Was just saying what I think DG would do. And IMO trading one of them is better than paying all 3 of Williams, Tomlinson, Lawrence, honestly I'm not thrilled at giving two of those guys big contracts either but assuming "fair" value don't mind trading Tomlinson as I'm resigned to Williams signing a massive deal this offseason at this point.
I hope they consider something creative for Peppers. He's not a deep back, and they may as well try to find a spot to put his athleticism to work. Can he be a strong piece? We're officially wasting time with Him, now.
LW won't be worth the money he will want next year. Peppers won't be worth a second contract. Zeitler is near the end and is blocking Lemiuex. Tomlinson is a run stuffer who won't be worth a second contract, and he is playing Lawrence's best position, and Tate is washed.
This post is a special kind of stupid. I mean really, really "special".
You don't realize that Tae Crowder, the Giants' Mr. Irrelevant pick, had earned himself the starting ILB role next to Martinez in the base D?
That with Lo Carter and Ximinez out injured, Cam Brown was earning reps at edge, in place of Golden???
Brown's performance on various STs units is apparently THE back room talk among the Giants' coaching staff...
You can bet your booty Golden was moved because this staff wants to see more of Cam Brown and possibly Carter Coughlin on the field playing defense.
In their minds, they had already moved on from Golden, who ar times was, apparently, not assignment sound.
Contrary to what seems like the mainstream opinion I hope they are judicious in who they trade. Guys like Golden who aren't a fit and don't have a future? C'est la vie. Maybe Peppers is on that list. Maybe Tate and Zeitler too. Engram is an affordable threat so I'd be less urgent to dump him if it's only going to be a day 3 pick. And LW is a guy I'd much rather have playing for the next few years than just adding a mid-round pick.
i'm thinking fackrell gets extended, we decide on one of the DTs, Ryan will probably leave unless he really wants to stay.
On this or another thread someone pointed out that Johnson looked pretty good. Lawrence ain't going anywhere. Cannot see Williams and DT staying here. So, something's gotta give. Don't know if it will come down to a choice between those DT & LW though......do you trade DT away not knowing LW will sign for acceptable numbers?
How is this an indictment of Gettleman? Not seeing it.
On this or another thread someone pointed out that Johnson looked pretty good. Lawrence ain't going anywhere. Cannot see Williams and DT staying here. So, something's gotta give. Don't know if it will come down to a choice between those DT & LW though......do you trade DT away not knowing LW will sign for acceptable numbers?
The way I see it, we have nobody else coming up for a contract (yea, Barkley, but....) and those two have been a great strength of ours. Bradberry os signed. I dont see us going nuts in FA. Likely we are more focused on the draft. Having Hill, DT, LW and DL as our front protects a qeak LB corps and secondary. I think we sign them both.
Wouldn't we get decent Comp picks if we don't resign them?
Ummm errrr yeah... Marcus Golden was never a "D.G. pick".
He was a low cost FA pickup who, after playing about 1.5 years with the Giants, netted them a low draft pick via a trade back to the team that originally let him go...
That's called "free money"... This was a plus move by Getts. Admittedly a lucky one perhaps more than skillful, but still a good move.
And if the Giants found 2 players who can have a role in their d schemes, (Crowder and Cam Brown),or even 3 (Coughlin?) among their 4 bottom of the barrel picks at LB and DB from the 2020 draft, that is a HUGE win.
I have no idea if that's good or bad. But that's the dollars and cents of it.
$1.375 million roster bonus
$100,000 per game bonus (so $700,000)
Base salary of $1.07 million ($470,000 through 7 games).
is this a Tom Brady quote?
I was disappointed he didn't make more of an impact this year, though his name was called a little more in recent weeks. His size is a big issue, and once he had to be on the field more often in the run game with Zo going down, he was exposed as a major liability.
Makes sense to get him out of here for something, and give the time to the young pups.
This is stupid. Just one example of the stupidity, Tae Crowder was a 7th round pick. He became the starting LB by the 6th game and played very well. Players can be found late in the draft. And it’s even likely they can contribute more than a guy that wasnt going to be on the team next season anyways...
Travis Fulgham was a 6th (by DET). Tre Flowers was a 6th (by SEA). Russell Gage and Boston Scott both wee 6th.
So yeah, they matter.
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whichever one they don't want to bring back next year. No way we shell out $$ to bring both back as FAs. The coaching staff should have a pretty good idea by now. Gotta get something and both have at least some value, even in a walk year.
Wouldn't we get decent Comp picks if we don't resign them?
Guess it depends what they sign for, obviously a team pick trumps a comp pick and you don’t have to roll the dice on what round they will compensate you, plus and FA signings we make cancel those out from my understanding which can limit your hand if your playing that game. I think it’s a wise idea, especially if they can return a late 3rd for one of them to help a playoff team improve.
How is this an indictment of Gettleman? Not seeing it.
This. Gettleman definitely needs to be canned, but this was a good move. Giants basically paid $3.5 million to add a 6th round draft pick.
Travis Fulgham was a 6th (by DET). Tre Flowers was a 6th (by SEA). Russell Gage and Boston Scott both wee 6th.
So yeah, they matter.
David Diehl 5th round pick
Shane Lemieux 5th round pick
Gibril Wilson 5th round pick
Kevin Boothe 6th round pick (Raiders)
Kaden Smith 6th round pick (49'ers)
Giants apparently couldn't get the draft pick they wanted for him last off-season, not sure they'll do better now. Maybe a #4 could be had from a team like the Bills.
How about Dawson Knox and a 3rd for Evan Engram and Leonard Williams?
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likely it is Tomlinson.
How about Dawson Knox and a 3rd for Evan Engram and Leonard Williams?
I'd Engram and a DT for a 2nd and a conditional pick if the DT resigns. Maybe I'd do a 3rd if the deal included Tomlinson, but not Williams.
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likely it is Tomlinson.
How about Dawson Knox and a 3rd for Evan Engram and Leonard Williams?
Who's Knox?
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In comment 15023099 LBH15 said:
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likely it is Tomlinson.
How about Dawson Knox and a 3rd for Evan Engram and Leonard Williams?
I'd Engram and a DT for a 2nd and a conditional pick if the DT resigns. Maybe I'd do a 3rd if the deal included Tomlinson, but not Williams.
I would want more too but seeing what Ngakoue just went for has lowered my expectations. I would like to re-sign Williams but only for $13-14 million per season. He is not going to accept that so I would rather get something for him now rather than nothing this offseason.
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In comment 15023099 LBH15 said:
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likely it is Tomlinson.
How about Dawson Knox and a 3rd for Evan Engram and Leonard Williams?
Who's Knox?
Knox is a 2019 3rd round pick of the Bills. He recorded 388 receiving yards during his rookie season.
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In comment 15023110 Jay on the Island said:
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In comment 15023099 LBH15 said:
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likely it is Tomlinson.
How about Dawson Knox and a 3rd for Evan Engram and Leonard Williams?
Who's Knox?
Knox is a 2019 3rd round pick of the Bills. He recorded 388 receiving yards during his rookie season.
Was just looking him up. Ironically Mississippi.
Engram and LW seems a bit much for this guy. But I really don't know his potential Jay.
Was just looking him up. Ironically Mississippi.
Engram and LW seems a bit much for this guy. But I really don't know his potential Jay.
I also suggested a 3rd round pick with Knox. Knox was a very popular TE around here by some during the draft. He has the potential to be a very good receiving TE. I don't know much about his blocking but he can't be worse than Engram.
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Was just looking him up. Ironically Mississippi.
Engram and LW seems a bit much for this guy. But I really don't know his potential Jay.
I also suggested a 3rd round pick with Knox. Knox was a very popular TE around here by some during the draft. He has the potential to be a very good receiving TE. I don't know much about his blocking but he can't be worse than Engram.
Missed the 3rd rd pick...my bad.
I think a 3rd could be struck for LW alone...hoping. So that would be a swap of TEs if I sized him up correctly which probably Buffalo doesn't do.
As infuriated as I am with Engram after that drop Thursday I am selling him no matter what.
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In comment 15023110 Jay on the Island said:
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In comment 15023099 LBH15 said:
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likely it is Tomlinson.
How about Dawson Knox and a 3rd for Evan Engram and Leonard Williams?
I'd Engram and a DT for a 2nd and a conditional pick if the DT resigns. Maybe I'd do a 3rd if the deal included Tomlinson, but not Williams.
I would want more too but seeing what Ngakoue just went for has lowered my expectations. I would like to re-sign Williams but only for $13-14 million per season. He is not going to accept that so I would rather get something for him now rather than nothing this offseason.
I see Williams and Ngakoue as not far off as assets, and you are including Engram too. JMO but that is enough value to go from a 3 to a 2.
Also different than Minnesota, we want to resign Williams whereas they have major cap issues. I don't view the 13-14m number as reasonable FMV (if it were a normal offseason). The realistic comp is Grady Jarrett ($17m) who is a similar level player, from LW's same draft class, and who also got tagged and later extended. I'd sign LW to that extension and I think the NYG would too, though it seems LW wanted more than that. If he's intractable on that I'd trade him but only if it's more than I'd get via a comp pick if someone else were willing to pay the higher price. Otherwise I'd expect to be able to resign him.
I'm partial to this point of view, but if they like Lemiuex I could be convinced on Zeitler - especially if it's close to a top 100 pick (4th rounder).
Tate slightly less so only because I don't think anyone is giving up that kind of pick for him and I view the potential replacements as much lesser. It's not totally inconceivable that Lemieux is almost as good as Zeitler right away in the same way Peart has looked like an upgrade right away. The Pats drafted a guard in the 6th round this year who has been very good. You can get lucky with interior lineman late (just like Diehl/Seubert).
I would trade Zeitler because of Shane Lemieux. Zeitler is playing poorly and his cap number will prevent him from returning next season unless he agreed to a pay cut but I doubt that occurs. Lemieux has impressed the coaching staff since his arrival and appears to be a future starter there. Give Lemieux a trial run for the rest of the season and if he falters the Giants know that they need to find a replacement this offseason.
As for Tate I would prefer to hang onto him because I doubt that they receiver anything better than a 6th round pick for him. I don't want to get rid of Jones' few weapons unless a team offers a surprising offer.