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PFF grades ....

Manny in CA : 10/23/2020 10:42 pm

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/dexter-lawrence-leonard-williams-were-160026500.html

The Good .....

Lawrence - 86.6
Williams - 82.4
Sterling Shepard - 78.4
Dan Jones - 75.5

The bad ....

Sure Evan Engram deserves a kick-in-the-pants for dropping that crucial pass gets a 51.7. But the then real dogs ....

The Ugly ....

Devonte Freeman - 33.1
Andrew Thomas 56.0 and a dismal 32.5 in pass pro (wonder how Peart graded ?)
Ryan Lewis - 30.0 (In my opinion the biggest reason we lost the game); stunk all night
Then there's Peppers (no grade, but how does he let that 5'6" midget [Boston Scott] beat him on the backbreaker TD ?); when's McKinney coming back ?






Why..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/23/2020 11:17 pm : link
do people even reference PFF?
Well, even if you have a low opinion of them ...  
Manny in CA : 10/23/2020 11:35 pm : link

As many do, here, I think they had a decent evaluation of the game.
That's fine..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/23/2020 11:48 pm : link
but just understand that people in the NFL don't put any credence into the ratings.

They are practically as useful as Madden ratings.
...  
broadbandz : 10/24/2020 12:40 am : link
i actually think Madden is more credible. The sad thing is these pff weirdos sell packages to gamblers. I think one of their locks was the redskins to beat us last week.
It's actually pretty brilliant  
widmerseyebrow : 10/24/2020 1:07 am : link
Inventing your own data and then selling it.
RE: It's actually pretty brilliant  
BlueLou'sBack : 10/24/2020 1:49 am : link
In comment 15022834 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
Inventing your own data and then selling it.


LOL!!!

Cha-ching!!!
What # was Tomilson?  
George from PA : 10/24/2020 4:05 am : link
In that 1st series that philly moved straight down and scored.....he was being blown off the line of scrimmage.

I had to take a double take.....couldn't believe how bad that was.....
RE: It's actually pretty brilliant  
GiantEgo : 10/24/2020 7:54 am : link
In comment 15022834 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
Inventing your own data and then selling it.


Yes indeed and what are the qualifications of the people doing the rating? I bet most of them never played or coached football at any level.

All 22 films becoming available to everyone as created a huge cottage industry of NFL quacks
PFF may be subjective at its best but what other evaluation services  
Ivan15 : 10/24/2020 8:13 am : link
Are out there? Are they all subscription based? Are any publicly available?

I certainly don’t obsess over PFF ratings and don’t rely on them except in a very general “who did okay and who didn’t “ way. When someone says gamblers rely on PFF, do you mean bookies or the idiots who support them?
Stop throwing peppers into these discussions  
Tuckrule : 10/24/2020 8:36 am : link
He is a very key component to this defense. He played a very good game vs the eagles.. His run support is phenomenal and he makes plays in the secondary. He covers backs, tight ends plays in the box etc. He had very good coverage on a wheel route and Scott hesitated as if it could have been an angle route. Boston Scott is very quick and shifty. That was excellent coverage and a better throw. In fact it was a perfect throw where only Scott could make a play and he did. He made a hell of a tough catch. Peppers is the least of the issues on this team. Throwing in peppers with guys like Thomas and Engram is nuts. Gain some perspective please.
RE: Stop throwing peppers into these discussions  
Simms11 : 10/24/2020 9:08 am : link
In comment 15022907 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
He is a very key component to this defense. He played a very good game vs the eagles.. His run support is phenomenal and he makes plays in the secondary. He covers backs, tight ends plays in the box etc. He had very good coverage on a wheel route and Scott hesitated as if it could have been an angle route. Boston Scott is very quick and shifty. That was excellent coverage and a better throw. In fact it was a perfect throw where only Scott could make a play and he did. He made a hell of a tough catch. Peppers is the least of the issues on this team. Throwing in peppers with guys like Thomas and Engram is nuts. Gain some perspective please.


Peppers is a much better player moving towards the LOS rather than away. He’s very much like Collins in that respect, except he is more of an athlete. He’s a Box Safety and nothing more. You need to use him more in that way. Unfortunately he has to cover RBs and TEs and he’s the one with the athleticism to do it, however he’s slow to react to the pass.
I didn't know what the hell PFF does, so I looked it up  
Marty in Albany : 10/24/2020 9:46 am : link
According to Wikipedia:
"Grades
PFF grades every NFL player on every play on a scale of -2 to +2 using half point increments.[6] The grades are based on context and performance. A four-yard run that gains a first down after two broken tackles will receive a better grade than a four-yard run on 3rd & 5, where the ball carrier does nothing more than expected. A quarterback who makes a good pass that a receiver tips into the arms of a defender will not negatively affect the quarterback's grade on that play, despite the overall negative result for the team.

Furthermore, grades are separated by play type. Beyond just an overall grade, an offensive lineman receives one grade for pass-blocking and one for run-blocking.[7] The average grade is meant to be zero, and raw grades are normalized.

In watching every game, PFF is also able to record information and create data that is typically unavailable. One example is how frequently individual offensive linemen yield pressure.

Advanced Statistics
PFF covers every player on every play of every game at the NFL and major college football level and creates advanced stats based on the information gleaned from this.[8]

Criticism
PFF has been criticized by the analytics community regarding the accuracy and veracity of its ratings.[9] In contrast to the purely quantitative ratings released by sources like Football Outsiders, TeamRankings, and numberFire, PFF uses qualitative and opinion-based grading as the root of its 0-100 Player Grades -- not its advanced statistics. As such, the 0-100 Player Grades are not truly quantitative and could be seen as being prone to bias, poor sample sizing, or other issues."

IMHO: The fact that PFF uses qualitative ratings (i.e. opinions) in addition to quantitative ratings (i.e. numerical stats) is a strength rather than a weakness.

Anyhow...that's what PFF does. Form you own conclusions.
But is there another source out there  
eclipz928 : 10/24/2020 10:48 am : link
that does what PFF does, in evaluating and quantifying individual player performances, that is considered more reliable? I would understand better why PFF gets bashed so much if there is an alternative that fans aren't using that has a more accurate grading system.
All I know is that no pro team uses PFF stats, even thought PFF  
PatersonPlank : 10/24/2020 2:45 pm : link
always tries to sell it to them. They think its garbage. I heard this from an interview with the CEO of PFF himself. Pro teams do use their draft scouting analysis though, its viewed as a starting point and a time saver.
People shit on PFF here, and I certainly have in the past, but  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/24/2020 3:00 pm : link
they are evolving. I"m fairly certain they are getting more involved in hiring people that know what they are looking at to evaluate the film and scores, I've heard it talked about somewhere, but struggling to remember where. Obviously their grading system isn't perfect and you'd like to see it a little more inclusive than +2-2 and I think you see them expand it there as tkey get more people that know what they are looking at when looking at the film.
I think PFF is trying to do something that may be impossible.  
81_Great_Dane : 10/24/2020 5:18 pm : link
They are trying to assign a grade to every player on every play. Without knowing the scheme and each player's assignment, that is bound to be very subjective and often flawed.

As for their grades, I'm reminded of one my favorite Bill James quote about new statistics: A statistic that is never surprising is probably not worth very much. A statistic that is always surprising is probably wrong.
Good thoughts, Dane ...  
Manny in CA : 10/24/2020 6:59 pm : link

Frankly I was surprised at freeman's low grade (with no mention of Gallman, who did well).

Engram sticks out because of his crucial drop and his perpetual lousy blocking, I get that.
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