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Rapoport on Joe & Evan today re: Gettleman

Sean : 10/23/2020 10:47 pm
He thinks the Giants will win more than 4 games based on how competitive they’ve been.

As of now, he doesn’t get the sense that Gettleman is a lock to be gone, if Jones is the guy at QB, it makes it complicated.

Lastly, and this is encouraging - a lot of young executives would want the GM job based on Judge. Ideally, I would like to see Judge paired with a young executive.
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RE: RE: I think staying consistent is the important  
Mdgiantsfan : 10/24/2020 7:06 am : link
In comment 15022867 Danny Dimes said:
Quote:
In comment 15022859 George from PA said:


Quote:


As the Giants find themselves in a cycle of losing....wash, rinse repeat.....

But if Judge wants to bring in another guy.....no issue. I get the sense this is a group effort anyhow

We give DG too much credit and blame....as these decisions are not made in a syllo......

Thomas certainly had coaches input.....as Georgia coach and Judge are close.....same with McKinney.




Exactly man, it was recess pieces thats droped the game. Consistency is key, if we keep blowing up the thing then we will continue to be a team that close to win games...i think Gentlemen deserves 1 more year...if we start over again then expect another 3-5 years to rebuild


We are consistently bad, so sticking with DG makes sense?

I want the Giants to win  
RetroJint : 10/24/2020 7:44 am : link
their last 3 division games . I wouldn’t mind if they lost the others to finish 4-12 . If Mara keeps Gettleman after that type of season , the Giants are doomed .

The Gordian Knot between GM & HC was cut last off-season . Belichick selected Judge . Not Gettleman . The Giants need to hire an outsider who is also a generation younger than the dinosaurs . When Gettleman spoke of the “computer people “ he sounded as hideously out-dated and uninformed as Wellington did when he was asked to compare the Cowboys using a mainframe to store and collate their talent data base while his organization was relying on dog-eared copies of Street & Smith’s college yearbooks .

Young people tend to hang around young people . They bounce ideas off each other . They speak a similar language . They hire from among their ranks . They establish friendships with young college coaches . They are not intimidated by metrics . They don’t deal with cliches from the 80s and 90s.

It looks like another wonderful draft position is going to be presented to the Giants , in large measure because of Gettleman’s incompetence . Do you insist that they are going to keep him because he might have been right on Daniel Jones ? Actually I think he was on that item but what about the plethora of bone-headed decisions ? The guy has been a clown . Gettleman’s Follies .

That said , I fully expect Mara to keep him .
What 4 games?  
jvm52106 : 10/24/2020 7:58 am : link
How about the fact that if EE doesn't drop the ball we have 2 wins already? How about the fact that we should (i know but it is true) have beaten Dallas. How about we could have beaten Chicago. This team with all of its talent deficiencies still is in games with a chance to win.

We play our division opponents 1 more time each and could get 2 or even 3 wins there. The Bengals are not a guaranteed loss and either are the Cards or Browns.

Right now the key is what we do before the trade deadline- EE, Zeitker, Tate all could go to bolster 2021.

Keep in mind the draft this past year and our team make up and philosophy under judge. He wants scheme and position versatility. We drafted guys like Brown, Coughlin, Crowder etc. to give us youth and flexibility in both the LB'er position and special teams. Our Oline picks (while still a work in progress) are there for 2021 as much as they were for 2020. Thomas will be one T (I still think RT) and Peart will be another. SL will get one of the guard spots.

If we play things right we will sign some guys who can help right away (WR and (CB) and trade down in draft to get a couple of additional picks. If we get an Edge rusher and say another WR or another CB then get another TE and a 2nd drafted WR, all of a sudden our team is vsstly different and very young- long term success..
This is a great point..  
Sean : 10/24/2020 8:05 am : link
Quote:
The Gordian Knot between GM & HC was cut last off-season . Belichick selected Judge . Not Gettleman .


I do not believe at all that Gettleman hired Judge, not even close. It was a Mara hire who was heavily influenced by Belichick. Gettleman may have been impressed with him, but Mara made the call.

Rapoport saying young executives wanting to potentially work with Judge is encouraging.

It’s tough bringing in outside GM’s though because a lot of them already have a head coach in mind I’m sure:

-Anyone from KC will probably want to be a package deal with Bieniemy
-Anyone from BAL may want to work with Martindale or Roman
-Anyone from BUF may want to work with Daboll
-Even Caserio could be waiting for an opportunity to work with McDaniels

Ideally, Judge has already talked to prospective GM’s in other spots to potentially come to NYG. But, without that, it’s very possible the Giants could hire anyone above and the new GM will try to influence Mara to bring in someone they’ve worked with at the first opportunity. This is what happened with Quinn & Caldwell which ultimately led to Patricia. That is what tends to happen.

So, it’s very possible that during the interview, Judge was comfortable working with Gettleman and then ultimately Abrams given assurances that he will have significant say on the players brought in.
I’d like to know the other 4 games the NYG are winning this year.  
The_Boss : 10/24/2020 8:18 am : link
Anything less than 4 wins and I think either by “retirement” or straight up canning, Dave is gone.
If 4 wins is enough to keep Gettleman  
Saquads26 : 10/24/2020 8:25 am : link
Than Mara needs to be the one to go. That’s downright pathetic
RE: I’d like to know the other 4 games the NYG are winning this year.  
Sean : 10/24/2020 8:25 am : link
In comment 15022897 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Anything less than 4 wins and I think either by “retirement” or straight up canning, Dave is gone.


Are you at all surprised with how close these games have been. I remember you stating the Giants would get beaten easily by Philly on a short week. Aside from one half against SF, every game they’ve had chances to win.

Are you surprised with that? Do you credit Judge?
RE: Here is the problem  
crick n NC : 10/24/2020 8:30 am : link
In comment 15022869 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Yes, I completely agree that constant change does nothing but breed losing and most don't seem to understand that. However, I don't think Gettleman deserves another year. Deserves is definitely not the right word.

Let me ask this, if you have a boss that gives you what you want and it goes wrong where does the blame lie? Doe is lie with the boss? Does it lie with the person asking the boss for those things? Or does it lie with that system?

It really is a unique situation because EVERYONE is killing Gettleman but when you look at what is happening it is really hard to blame him (hear me out). Of I was a coach I would love Gettleman as my GM just for the simple fact that when I want or need something then there is a good chance it'll be provided for me. When Shurmur and Bettcher were here you can clearly see the types of players brought in. Shurmur and Bettcher had a huge say who they got with their connections.

Now look at Judge. The draft was completely different. Judge even said that they had a difference of opinions on players and that's a good thing but this draft was completely different than when Shurmur was here. Look at the FA and connections to Garrett and Graham. It is nice to have a GM go out and get you what you want as a coach instead of not having that connection.

So, while that is nice, where does the blame lie? And this is the biggest problem with the Giants and was at the forefront with Reese and Coughlin. If it is truly a collaborative process then it is great when it N works but when it doesn't work it is way too cloudy to understand where the true problem lies.

To fix those problems makes it very difficult when you try to put the blame on one person when it is a group effort so pulling out one piece and replacing that one person will actually cause more problems than solutions. For anybody that has had new coworkers you know 8t is a complete shot in the dark if it'll be a positive or a negative. We see it with GMs and HCs all the time. Far more don't work out than do work out.

So, long story short, if you believe Judge is the guy and you trust him then I think this combo of people will get another chance unless Gettleman steps down. Gettleman is more the person that will be bringing in Jidge's guys than Judge just coaching who is randomly brought in. Now, with that said, I have one grip with Judge. We have no idea how he is as a talent evaluator and he seems to putt too much value on versatility and special teams play than actual ability to play an offensive or defensive position. I don't agree with some of the roster moves so far but nobody bats 1.000 either so we'll see where we end up.

One more note, to me this is more of a systemic problem. I think it is good that there is a bunch of collaboration. However, I believe we need a GM to take the reigns and say I will get you guys when I can but this is my call, my job, and my responsibility. I'm going to get the players I feel will have the greatest impact on turning this franchise around. I think that next GM has tk have a mentality like that. It doesn't mean it needs to be a huge disconnect from him and the coaches. They can still collaborate where Judge can point out some non-negotiables like players have to be smart, team-first, versatile, coachable, and high effort players but from there the GM has to own his responsibility of bringing in those players.


Thanks for this. I am guessing a good portion of fans will scroll past this without consideration.
RE: RE: I’d like to know the other 4 games the NYG are winning this year.  
The_Boss : 10/24/2020 8:35 am : link
In comment 15022900 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15022897 The_Boss said:


Quote:


Anything less than 4 wins and I think either by “retirement” or straight up canning, Dave is gone.



Are you at all surprised with how close these games have been. I remember you stating the Giants would get beaten easily by Philly on a short week. Aside from one half against SF, every game they’ve had chances to win.

Are you surprised with that? Do you credit Judge?


Very surprised actually. Despite the record, thus far Judge has been very impressive. I hope/think we have our guy there. I’m concerned if they do sell off more guys (which is necessary) how that affects the team morale. Judge would have to maneuver that should it come to fruition.
Robbie....one problem with your thesis is that he okayed Shurmur.  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/24/2020 8:35 am : link
This is a glaring mistake. In fact, he probably loved Shurmur because he knew any power struggles he was going to come out on top if he was brought in as HC. All GMs bring in players that the coaches want, especially back of roster guys.
What is the bar for this team?  
Oscar : 10/24/2020 8:36 am : link
Gettleman is three years into his tenure and they are 1-6 and look like they need about 2-3 more successful drafts to be any good. And that’s assuming Jones is the guy, which is a major assumption.

They have to go a different direction. Encouraging to hear that about Judge because I think Judge is our guy for hopefully a long time.
Like it or not, this is the 1st year of the rebuild.  
George from PA : 10/24/2020 8:38 am : link
New coaching staff changes everything...these coaches did know the players and what they had...and with weird off season...less so.

The organization must give Judge the time they need....

The coaches must figure out which players they can win with....and start to make longterm decision (playing Peart is important going forward), trading away the ones that do not fit.

I feel the Judge and Gettlemen relationship is genuine...so I doubt he gets fired, possibly retire. I also would not be shocked, if they hire an assistant GM. (I understand fans must dump on someone their frustration but DG gets way too much blane and no credit).

Judge has my trust....W/L record does not really matter at this point. Figure out what they want next year...and get those players ready.



Seriously speaking, what do we know about the relationship  
LBH15 : 10/24/2020 8:43 am : link
between Judge and DG?

“First year of the rebuild” is not an excuse  
Oscar : 10/24/2020 8:45 am : link
If we even accept that timeline it’s only because Gettleman completely misread the situation when he arrived, burning incredibly valuable resources in the process.

Gettleman arrived and said the Eli team had a lot left, you can win while you build, etc. He’s hired two coaches, used three top 10 picks and five first round picks overall and has not much to show for it right now. He also likely over-drafted a QB who might be sort of a middle of the pack guy or a career backup, and the bottom line is they are 10-29 in three seasons.

It’s time for a change.
Unless they  
cokeduplt : 10/24/2020 8:45 am : link
Go 9-7 he should be gone. Enough already why let him fuck up the draft/roster more. Giants are becoming the knicks if true ugh
And people wonder  
Scooter185 : 10/24/2020 8:51 am : link
Why I've been rooting for losses.
I can't remember  
mittenedman : 10/24/2020 8:59 am : link
a lesser-known guy who seems more universally respected than Judge. He's certainly built a name for himself within the coaching ranks.

My B-i-L is a Lions fan. There are some rumors Patricia may be interested in joining the Giants staff as well.
I think DG has tried,  
Simms11 : 10/24/2020 9:01 am : link
but has come up short on the Oline primarily. Another area weakened and not replaced well was WR, with the trade of OBJ. Got rid of JPP and OV, replaced by Golden and? LBer has never been filled properly, you play a 3-4 base D and your priority of fill on D has to be LBer and Edge - not replaced effectively. The biggest thing with DG is his ability to cut his losses and identify his mistakes. That is a good quality, however, the most important thing is finding the right players with talent and that is like finding the Holy Grail around here lately! He deserves credit for some Free Agent signings, but so do most other GMs. I’m not sold on DG after 3 years and I sure hope ownership takes a hard look at this roster and comes up with the same conclusion. The team is no better today then it was 3 years ago! In fact in many instances it’s worse!
RE: Seriously speaking, what do we know about the relationship  
crick n NC : 10/24/2020 9:08 am : link
In comment 15022912 LBH15 said:
Quote:
between Judge and DG?


We know zero, we speculate much.
we don't know  
fkap : 10/24/2020 9:13 am : link
what the new group decision dynamic is between DG, JJ, and the Maras. Is it the same as historical, except insert JJ instead of Shurmur, or has the balance shifted so that one or more of the parties gets more say?

Personally, I'm not all that optimistic that the arrow is pointing up. Talent wise, I think we've stopped the hemorrhaging after the first 2 years of DG, but that doesn't mean we've actually started improving the talent level.

Until we actually start winning, this team is just spinning its wheels as bottom feeders, in a putrid division. It used to be that the scorn was that we won games we were supposed to win, but nothing more. Now, there are very few games we're favored/supposed to win. It's a toss-up what shitty team we may, or may not, suck worse than.

Yay! we only got blown out by one good team (which was minus a lot of starters), and didn't lose too badly to the rest (good or bad). If barely winning against a pathetic team for our lone win is cause for optimism, the bar is really, really low.
The Giants are 2 or probably 3 edge rushers  
arniefez : 10/24/2020 9:22 am : link
from being a competitive team in their crap division and they have a GM who can find even one. Good luck Joe Judge you're going to be like Belichick and be great in your 2nd job.
RE: Robbie....one problem with your thesis is that he okayed Shurmur.  
TrueBlue56 : 10/24/2020 9:24 am : link
In comment 15022905 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
This is a glaring mistake. In fact, he probably loved Shurmur because he knew any power struggles he was going to come out on top if he was brought in as HC. All GMs bring in players that the coaches want, especially back of roster guys.


So, by your account tom couhhlin was all on board with the "basketball on grass" philosophy of reese and ross. Tom coughlin was ok with his offensive line being decimated by injuries and retirements with no answers. Not all GM's work in concert with the head coaches.

Look at the WTF team. The head coach at the time (gruden) didn't want haskins, but the GM and owner took him anyway. I could go on and on, so no not all GM's bring in players that the coaches want
I think the biggest obstacle  
eli4life : 10/24/2020 9:31 am : link
Will be keeping Mara from promoting abrams
RE: The Giants are 2 or probably 3 edge rushers  
Angel Eyes : 10/24/2020 9:32 am : link
In comment 15022939 arniefez said:
Quote:
from being a competitive team in their crap division and they have a GM who can find even one. Good luck Joe Judge you're going to be like Belichick and be great in your 2nd job.

Can or can't? Because Gettleman barely even tries to find edge rushers.
RE: RE: I think staying consistent is the important  
SirLoinOfBeef : 10/24/2020 9:45 am : link
In comment 15022867 Danny Dimes said:
Quote:
In comment 15022859 George from PA said:


Quote:


As the Giants find themselves in a cycle of losing....wash, rinse repeat.....

But if Judge wants to bring in another guy.....no issue. I get the sense this is a group effort anyhow

We give DG too much credit and blame....as these decisions are not made in a syllo......

Thomas certainly had coaches input.....as Georgia coach and Judge are close.....same with McKinney.




Exactly man, it was recess pieces thats droped the game. Consistency is key, if we keep blowing up the thing then we will continue to be a team that close to win games...i think Gentlemen deserves 1 more year...if we start over again then expect another 3-5 years to rebuild


Consistency is the by-product of success. If the team is winning, everybody gets to keep their jobs. Why should incompetent employees continue to keep their positions?

This team owes it to the fans to find the best people for the job.
If we are accepting that this is  
Doubledeuce22 : 10/24/2020 9:46 am : link
Year one of the rebuild then DG needs to be fired now. DG doomed this franchise in his very first draft when he decided to take a RB with the 2nd overall pick when RB is arguably the least important position on the field.
..  
Named Later : 10/24/2020 9:59 am : link
Speaking strictly for myself, I would hesitate to make a franchise altering move in such a fouled-up season as this.

Yes, Gettleman whiffed on the Tackle pick. That kid may still be a serviceable RT, but that's a big swing and miss right there.

I question any scouting department that went to the Combine last year, and paid attention during the WR workouts -- and didn't see any 2nd round value in that group. That dept should be over-hauled top to bottom.

I think part of the problem is in player evaluation and he's a four-letter word that starts with M.
RE: ..  
Angel Eyes : 10/24/2020 10:00 am : link
In comment 15022960 Named Later said:
Quote:


I think part of the problem is in player evaluation and he's a four-letter word that starts with M.

Which one? There's two.
RE: RE: RE: I think staying consistent is the important  
BlueVinnie : 10/24/2020 10:06 am : link
In comment 15022950 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:




Consistency is the by-product of success. If the team is winning, everybody gets to keep their jobs. Why should incompetent employees continue to keep their positions?


Exactly! I know Gettleman has his supporters here and while I don't agree with any of them, I can understand some of the reasons why people still support him. However, to use consistency as the reason to maintain someone who is failing at their job, is just nuts.

Gettleman's been here 3 years and not one of you "consistency" guys would have been on board for 3 more years (at minimum) of losing in his tenure. It should not take any GM 3 years to at least sniff a .500 record.
Yeah, I know this season's not over but it's highly unlikely that we win 5 or 6 games the rest of way.
RE: Robbie....one problem with your thesis is that he okayed Shurmur.  
robbieballs2003 : 10/24/2020 10:11 am : link
In comment 15022905 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
This is a glaring mistake. In fact, he probably loved Shurmur because he knew any power struggles he was going to come out on top if he was brought in as HC. All GMs bring in players that the coaches want, especially back of roster guys.


I'm not saying DG is without blame. Far from it. My biggest point is the system is flawed. One other point that wasn't clear was one person can suck in a situation and that same person can be great in a different situation just like a player with a different coaching staff. I personally think Judge and Gettleman can work out together because Judge seems to have a much better vision than Shurmur. The problem is we don't know and we haven't seen immediate results.
Twist or stick.  
Gruber : 10/24/2020 10:15 am : link
We beat Washington again.
We may or may not beat the Bengals, but that's about it.
Looking at 2-14 or 3-13, drafting anything from #2 to #5.
Gettleman 100% has to go. Judge has to be given a GM who is in harmony with him, or just a GM who is better than Gettleman.
With #2 a QB is in play. Judge will have to make a call on whether he wishes to stick with DJ or move on. Advantage of moving on, if you believe there is an equally good QB available is that you get four/five years at discount.
I like DJ, he's a gamer, but you know what, so was Davis Webb. I used to hear from the Giants own people how enthusiastic he was, how he was always tailing Eli for advice, the dedication, but at the end of the day that's just not enough. The talent has to be there, not to mention the propensity to avoid turning the ball over. If there's a QB in the 2021 draft with better a better arm and the right attitude, then you have to go after him. I reckon Judge will do that, because he will make a cold, hard assessment.
There are some extraordinary...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 10:48 am : link
mental gymnastics taking place on this thread, particularly by those so concerned by the delicate state of the franchise, and not wanting to possibly create even more turmoil by making change.

We hired the wrong guy for the GM job because of good old fashioned “Giants Way” cronyism. And we continue to pay a steep price for it - we can’t win. You know, that thing on the scoreboard where at the end of the game we have more points than the other team. In three years under Gettleman we’ve done that a whopping TEN times.

But let’s not upset the apple cart here because maybe Gettleman got it right with Daniel Turnover Jones and a first EVER head coach at anything.

Well, this apple cart was upset a long ago. It’s been run over several times and it’s no longer recognizable except for one side of the cart that reads “Resume Dave’s Delicious Apples”...
Judge is 1-6  
Vanzetti : 10/24/2020 11:39 am : link
What has he done to merit naming his own GM? That’s ridiculous. I
Liked his big speech but quite frankly he has looked like another failed Belichick assistant coach promoted to HC

RE: Judge is 1-6  
Simms11 : 10/24/2020 11:58 am : link
In comment 15023048 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
What has he done to merit naming his own GM? That’s ridiculous. I
Liked his big speech but quite frankly he has looked like another failed Belichick assistant coach promoted to HC


The guy has never been a Head Coach at any level and already we’ve come to the conclusion that he’s another failed BB assistant?! Hmmmmmm. He’s building something here and has only coached 7 games so far. This has to play out over a minimum of at least 3 years before we consider him a possible failure. There are also so many other variables to consider, including talent!
RE: Judge is 1-6  
SirLoinOfBeef : 10/24/2020 12:07 pm : link
In comment 15023048 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
What has he done to merit naming his own GM? That’s ridiculous. I
Liked his big speech but quite frankly he has looked like another failed Belichick assistant coach promoted to HC


Better him than ANYONE named Mara.
RE: Judge is 1-6  
UConn4523 : 10/24/2020 12:15 pm : link
In comment 15023048 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
What has he done to merit naming his own GM? That’s ridiculous. I
Liked his big speech but quite frankly he has looked like another failed Belichick assistant coach promoted to HC


Well we’d be firing the GM who gave him this team sooo....

Unless you think this team should be performing better I’m not sure what you are getting at. Judge is going to have heavily input on the GM but ultimately Mara will be the one hiring him. But why even have Judge then if he doesn’t get input? Just fire him and do it all again next year, is that what you are suggesting?
RE: No more forcing coaches on GMs  
giantstock : 10/24/2020 12:31 pm : link
In comment 15022849 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
The whole idea that you can do this based on S.F. is ridiculous. One swallow does not a spring make.

Gettlemen stays with Judge. Stop the merry-go-round

If DG were let go, that would be 3 GMs in four years to go along with four coaches in six years

Not a recipe for success


Is it a recipe for success to keep a GM (or any high level manager) when you know the manager is incompetent.
UConn..  
Sean : 10/24/2020 12:33 pm : link
Some posters here just love the idea of constantly firing coaches and starting over. It’s amazing.
RE: I think staying consistent is the important  
giantstock : 10/24/2020 12:33 pm : link
In comment 15022859 George from PA said:
Quote:
We give DG too much credit and blame....as these decisions are not made in a syllo......


Too many give DG too many excuses.
RE: RE: Seriously speaking, what do we know about the relationship  
LBH15 : 10/24/2020 12:34 pm : link
In comment 15022935 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 15022912 LBH15 said:


Quote:


between Judge and DG?




We know zero, we speculate much.


Exactly. As far as we know, Judge could think he is a dink.

They gave Judge a five year contract  
SirLoinOfBeef : 10/24/2020 12:35 pm : link
correct?

Why would they saddle him with a GM he doesn't feel will help him succeed?...

IMO the reason they hired Judge in was to help change the culture in the front office. Gettleman "retires" after this season, Judge brings in his guy or has more input on personnel with someone like Abrams at GM.

I hope its the former. I hope Judge gets his guy and together they change the course of this team.
RE: They gave Judge a five year contract  
Sean : 10/24/2020 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15023133 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
correct?

Why would they saddle him with a GM he doesn't feel will help him succeed?...

IMO the reason they hired Judge in was to help change the culture in the front office. Gettleman "retires" after this season, Judge brings in his guy or has more input on personnel with someone like Abrams at GM.

I hope its the former. I hope Judge gets his guy and together they change the course of this team.


Bingo. I think this is it. It’s one of two scenarios:

1.) Judge has an idea of who he hopes to work with as GM, maybe they’ve even already talked. Mara would still need to approve the hire.

2.) It is already been discussed in the interview process that Abrams will be taking over with Judge having personnel input (not running the show, but significant input). Judge was comfortable with this and that is the understanding.

Belichick recommended this and I’m sure the front office dynamic come up with his conversations with Judge before taking the job. Also, Judge strikes me as very smart. I don’t think as a 38 year old he would jump into an opportunity with a 4-12 team and a lame duck GM unless some of those concerns were addressed.
RE: What 4 games?  
lax counsel : 10/24/2020 12:49 pm : link
In comment 15022889 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
How about the fact that if EE doesn't drop the ball we have 2 wins already? How about the fact that we should (i know but it is true) have beaten Dallas. How about we could have beaten Chicago. This team with all of its talent deficiencies still is in games with a chance to win.

We play our division opponents 1 more time each and could get 2 or even 3 wins there. The Bengals are not a guaranteed loss and either are the Cards or Browns.

Right now the key is what we do before the trade deadline- EE, Zeitker, Tate all could go to bolster 2021.

Keep in mind the draft this past year and our team make up and philosophy under judge. He wants scheme and position versatility. We drafted guys like Brown, Coughlin, Crowder etc. to give us youth and flexibility in both the LB'er position and special teams. Our Oline picks (while still a work in progress) are there for 2021 as much as they were for 2020. Thomas will be one T (I still think RT) and Peart will be another. SL will get one of the guard spots.

If we play things right we will sign some guys who can help right away (WR and (CB) and trade down in draft to get a couple of additional picks. If we get an Edge rusher and say another WR or another CB then get another TE and a 2nd drafted WR, all of a sudden our team is vsstly different and very young- long term success..


You could also look at it like this, the giants are a terrible Rivera decision away from being 0-7. Also consider this, the Giants played one of their better games in some time in philly coupled with philly with doing ever single thing they could through 3 quarters to give the Giants the game, and they still lost. Heck, they barely got any yardage with the ability to still kick a FG to win. Also consider, the current iteration of the Eagles are terrible.
RE: UConn..  
Scooter185 : 10/24/2020 1:24 pm : link
In comment 15023124 Sean said:
Quote:
Some posters here just love the idea of constantly firing coaches and starting over. It’s amazing.


Consistency for the sake of consistency is foolish if the people leading the organization aren't the right people. McAdoo, Shurmur, Gettleman have all been bad to horrible hires. The only consistency they've brought, outside of BMs first year, is being consistently bad. But yes it's much better to keep the wrong people because of consistency 🙄🙄
Scooter..  
Sean : 10/24/2020 2:15 pm : link
My point is with Judge and his 1-6 start.
RE: Judge is 1-6  
Gruber : 10/24/2020 2:23 pm : link
In comment 15023048 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
What has he done to merit naming his own GM? That’s ridiculous. I
Liked his big speech but quite frankly he has looked like another failed Belichick assistant coach promoted to HC


Belichick's first season as head coach of the Patriots, they were 0-4 and then 2-8.
I guess they shoulda fired him right there and then!
Some of us are assessing Joe Judge on a little more than the win/loss record, like how he handles the players, how they respond to him, what decisions he makes, but you go ahead, make him responsible for this roster.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/24/2020 2:31 pm : link
You can ignore whether there was a mandate from Mara to win with Eli in 2018 (I’m skeptical of that claim and think it’s silly that it’s become ‘fact’ in many people’s minds) - we had to fix the OL regardless of who was going to be QB and when we were supposed to start winning. Gettleman has invested significant resources there and it’s still absolute garbage which is why he should be fired.
My guess  
BigBlueinDE : 10/24/2020 4:59 pm : link
is that DG will "retire" at the end of the year similar to they way Gilbride retired prior to McAdoo taking over as OC.

He's had some good to very good acquistions and some misses. But that said, the product on the field just isn't good enough to win games consistently unless they play a near perfect game and that falls on the GM.

My hopes are that they'll reach outside of the organization who is philosophically aligned with Judge and they'll be able to upgrade the talent ASAP.

This offseason will be critical.
RE: ....  
ColHowPepper : 10/25/2020 2:35 pm : link
In comment 15023297 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
You can ignore whether there was a mandate from Mara to win with Eli in 2018 (I’m skeptical of that claim and think it’s silly that it’s become ‘fact’ in many people’s minds) - we had to fix the OL regardless of who was going to be QB and when we were supposed to start winning. Gettleman has invested significant resources there and it’s still absolute garbage which is why he should be fired.
Amen. The opportunity cost of failed investments on OL in FA alone has been crippling.
RE: ....  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/25/2020 2:41 pm : link
In comment 15023297 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
You can ignore whether there was a mandate from Mara to win with Eli in 2018 (I’m skeptical of that claim and think it’s silly that it’s become ‘fact’ in many people’s minds) - we had to fix the OL regardless of who was going to be QB and when we were supposed to start winning. Gettleman has invested significant resources there and it’s still absolute garbage which is why he should be fired.


This is the big one to me. While he hasn’t really sacrificed the future after he’s gone and I think he’s set us up okay moving forward. This is the fireable offense to me. That and okaying Shurmur. You can’t have the number 1 mandate you give is to fix oline and 3 years later it still doesn’t seem close. Of course if Thomas and Peart work out, it will look much better than it is. Problem is he whiffed on Pio, Solder, and Zietlee and Hernandez isn’t the steal he was billed as. A competent NFL guard at this point.
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