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NGT...Justin Fields playing at noon, EST, v Nebraska....

bw in dc : 10/24/2020 11:53 am
on Fox.

If we do decide Jones isn’t the solution, Fields should be given a long look if we have a top five pick (but not the first).

I’ve been back and forth on him. Finally had a chance to be a starter last year after transferring from Georgia. Put up outstanding numbers. Just not sure about his overall passing qualities. But the physical attributes are certainly there...
Always  
Toth029 : 10/24/2020 12:00 pm : link
Weary of OSU quarterbacks.

Haskins had the numbers too (one season of it). They run a system and have mostly faced weaker competition so they'd feast.

Also not sold on Lance. He's more of a runner so you'd have to scheme around him.
..  
Toth029 : 10/24/2020 12:02 pm : link
Wary, that is.

I'd watch the Buckeye CB Shaun Wade. Gotta think he goes high in the draft.
Fields is fantastic. Just as talented as Lawrence without the physical  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:04 pm : link
attributes (though Fields is 6'3. He's no slouch).
RE: ..  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:05 pm : link
In comment 15023057 Toth029 said:
Quote:
Wary, that is.

I'd watch the Buckeye CB Shaun Wade. Gotta think he goes high in the draft.


FWIW, Wade's thought of as more of a slot guy. That's where his primary experience is.
OSU is definitely stacked...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:06 pm : link
and usually out-talent teams by a huge margin. But I think Fields is a much better prospect and athlete than one-hit-wonder Haskins.
Tough to take anything from this game. Aren’t they 45 pt  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/24/2020 12:08 pm : link
Faves or something like that?
McCaffrey!!!  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:09 pm : link
...who saw that coming...
RE: OSU is definitely stacked...  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:09 pm : link
In comment 15023063 bw in dc said:
Quote:
and usually out-talent teams by a huge margin. But I think Fields is a much better prospect and athlete than one-hit-wonder Haskins.


He is. He's more athletic than Haskins and is as good, if not better, of a passer.
Nebraska!...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:09 pm : link
Love it. May have a game here. Huskers just blew up the OSU DL.
Better tools than Haskins  
JonC : 10/24/2020 12:10 pm : link
Different athlete and competitor level in him too. Not sure he's a top 5 talent tho.
RE: RE: OSU is definitely stacked...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:10 pm : link
In comment 15023069 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 15023063 bw in dc said:


Quote:


and usually out-talent teams by a huge margin. But I think Fields is a much better prospect and athlete than one-hit-wonder Haskins.



He is. He's more athletic than Haskins and is as good, if not better, of a passer.


People forget - not you, I know you are pretty up to speed - that Fields was a top prospect in 2018 out of high school. ESPN had him ranked #1 over Lawrence. So there is class there...
RE: Better tools than Haskins  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:12 pm : link
In comment 15023073 JonC said:
Quote:
Different athlete and competitor level in him too. Not sure he's a top 5 talent tho.


Maybe...but as you know, QBs got over-rated every year by draft slot because of demand.
Got = get...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:13 pm : link
...
RE: RE: RE: OSU is definitely stacked...  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:13 pm : link
In comment 15023075 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15023069 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 15023063 bw in dc said:


Quote:


and usually out-talent teams by a huge margin. But I think Fields is a much better prospect and athlete than one-hit-wonder Haskins.



He is. He's more athletic than Haskins and is as good, if not better, of a passer.



People forget - not you, I know you are pretty up to speed - that Fields was a top prospect in 2018 out of high school. ESPN had him ranked #1 over Lawrence. So there is class there...


Yep. It was Lawrence vs. Fields in the State of Georgia. Their rivalry goes back a long way. Fields actually beat Lawrence in Trent Dilfer's QB camp and won MVP.
Hate to tell you people....  
giant_thoughts : 10/24/2020 12:14 pm : link
Jones isn't going anywhere!
RE: Better tools than Haskins  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:15 pm : link
In comment 15023073 JonC said:
Quote:
Different athlete and competitor level in him too. Not sure he's a top 5 talent tho.


I respectfully disagree. If Fields can remain healthy, I'd be shocked if he doesn't end up as a franchise QB. He's a better prospect than many recent ones like Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, Murray, DJ, Lock, etc. If not for Lawrence, I would wager that Fields would be the overwhelming favorite to be the #1 overall pick (him or Sewell).
Be careful  
JonC : 10/24/2020 12:16 pm : link
Fields has a ton of help around him.
RE: Be careful  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:19 pm : link
In comment 15023092 JonC said:
Quote:
Fields has a ton of help around him.


So do most of these QBs. Trevor Lawrence plays for Clemson. Granted he doesn't have Justyn Ross this year, but he has a ton of talent around him. Kyler and Baker Mayfield had Hollywood Brown and Mark Andrews. They were protected by arguably the best O-Line in the country.
RE: Be careful  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:19 pm : link
In comment 15023092 JonC said:
Quote:
Fields has a ton of help around him.


Let's be honest, every interesting QB from a top program will have that luxury. Recent case in point: Joe Burrow. That LSU was stacked...
BW - this is why I thought of Rosen when I was talking about  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/24/2020 12:22 pm : link
Fields before. These guys that are top prospects in HS, when they are good at the college level, get unfairly boosted by this status. The hype machine around Rosen at UCLA was unreal and I’m convinced if he wasn’t a top high school prospect he’s not even a first round pick. I just never saw “it” with him.
RE: RE: Be careful  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/24/2020 12:23 pm : link
In comment 15023100 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15023092 JonC said:


Quote:


Fields has a ton of help around him.



Let's be honest, every interesting QB from a top program will have that luxury. Recent case in point: Joe Burrow. That LSU was stacked...


What has Burrow done in NFL to use him as a successful case study?
I love fields  
nygiants16 : 10/24/2020 12:25 pm : link
but i dont think Giants are going to end up moving off Jones..

I am looking forward to watching Bateman tonight
RE: RE: Be careful  
Jim in Forest Hills : 10/24/2020 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15023100 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15023092 JonC said:


Quote:


Fields has a ton of help around him.



Let's be honest, every interesting QB from a top program will have that luxury. Recent case in point: Joe Burrow. That LSU was stacked...


I mean LSU has always had talent but Burrow made that team go. They can't score this year even though Chase is there. With OSU and Fields, yes they have talent and Ryan Day's scheme. Seeing Fields hit wide open guys won't tell us anything. We need to see the tough throws when the game is on the line into tight windows. Everything in the nfl has tight windows,
I can't believe you guys are watching OSU vs Nebraska instead  
PatersonPlank : 10/24/2020 12:26 pm : link
of the perennial top 10 program match up between the mighty fighting scarlet knights and MSU?

For the record RU is up 14-0, man MSU must suck
RE: BW - this is why I thought of Rosen when I was talking about  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:27 pm : link
In comment 15023104 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
Fields before. These guys that are top prospects in HS, when they are good at the college level, get unfairly boosted by this status. The hype machine around Rosen at UCLA was unreal and I’m convinced if he wasn’t a top high school prospect he’s not even a first round pick. I just never saw “it” with him.


I was a sucker for Rosen's mechanics and throwing skills. But I was concerned about the concussions and some issues with the shoulder.

Fields is a much, much better athlete than Rosen. And he fits the mold of the modern day QB. So I don't really see the comp...
RE: RE: RE: Be careful  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:27 pm : link
In comment 15023109 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
In comment 15023100 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15023092 JonC said:


Quote:


Fields has a ton of help around him.



Let's be honest, every interesting QB from a top program will have that luxury. Recent case in point: Joe Burrow. That LSU was stacked...



I mean LSU has always had talent but Burrow made that team go. They can't score this year even though Chase is there. With OSU and Fields, yes they have talent and Ryan Day's scheme. Seeing Fields hit wide open guys won't tell us anything. We need to see the tough throws when the game is on the line into tight windows. Everything in the nfl has tight windows,


Chase isn't playing this season
RE: I can't believe you guys are watching OSU vs Nebraska instead  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:28 pm : link
In comment 15023111 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
of the perennial top 10 program match up between the mighty fighting scarlet knights and MSU?

For the record RU is up 14-0, man MSU must suck


Rutgers is taking it to the Spartans. That RB Pacheco looks pretty good
BW it isn’t a comp. Its what I said in my post. Cognitive Bias due  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/24/2020 12:30 pm : link
To bring the top QB coming out of high school.
MSU lost Dantonio (Saban disciple)  
Jim in Forest Hills : 10/24/2020 12:30 pm : link
I think they will have a tough year, we'll see if the new coach can turn it around.

Meanwhile look out for Wisconsin, the RS FR Mertz played yesterday, threw 5 TDs. Lots of potential there.
First time watching UNC this season  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:30 pm : link
The QB has a fucking laser for an arm. Looks much better than Trubisky did at UNC.
RE: RE: RE: Be careful  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:32 pm : link
In comment 15023109 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:

I mean LSU has always had talent but Burrow made that team go. They can't score this year even though Chase is there. With OSU and Fields, yes they have talent and Ryan Day's scheme. Seeing Fields hit wide open guys won't tell us anything. [b]We need to see the tough throws when the game is on the line into tight windows. Everything in the nfl has tight windows,/b]


Totally agree with the bold.

Yes, Burrow as the triggerman but that team was loaded everywhere - OL, WRs, TE, RBs...Just a dream team, really...
RE: First time watching UNC this season  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:34 pm : link
In comment 15023117 Anakim said:
Quote:
The QB has a fucking laser for an arm. Looks much better than Trubisky did at UNC.


Oh, God yeah. I was raving about Howell last year as a freshman. He caught my eye early and I was all over his bandwagon. ;)
Gorgeous pass by Fields there  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:34 pm : link
TD Ohio State
RE: Gorgeous pass by Fields there  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:37 pm : link
In comment 15023130 Anakim said:
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TD Ohio State

The Real Deal - ( New Window )
RE: BW it isn’t a comp. Its what I said in my post. Cognitive Bias due  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15023115 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
To bring the top QB coming out of high school.


I get it. I follow the high school recruiting game very closely - have a friend in the business - so I am typically well aware of the hype. Like Ugalelei (no idea how to spell his name) could be the "next Lawrence" for Clemson. Kid has a lot of physical attributes...
RE: RE: Gorgeous pass by Fields there  
PatersonPlank : 10/24/2020 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15023135 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 15023130 Anakim said:


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TD Ohio State

The Real Deal - ( New Window )


Nice pass, but you have to admit there was no DL player within 5 yards of him and the WR had about 3 steps. This is the issue with evaluating him
Syracuse is pathetic  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:39 pm : link
Did they even lay a finger on Etienne on that TD run?
RE: Gorgeous pass by Fields there  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15023130 Anakim said:
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TD Ohio State


Total strike...and it was a laser.
RE: RE: RE: Gorgeous pass by Fields there  
PatersonPlank : 10/24/2020 12:40 pm : link
In comment 15023140 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15023135 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 15023130 Anakim said:


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TD Ohio State

The Real Deal - ( New Window )



Nice pass, but you have to admit there was no DL player within 5 yards of him and the WR had about 3 steps. This is the issue with evaluating him


I mean he had more time on that throw than Jones had added together from all his plays on Thurs night
RE: RE: RE: Gorgeous pass by Fields there  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:40 pm : link
In comment 15023140 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15023135 Anakim said:


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In comment 15023130 Anakim said:


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TD Ohio State

The Real Deal - ( New Window )



Nice pass, but you have to admit there was no DL player within 5 yards of him and the WR had about 3 steps. This is the issue with evaluating him


Look at this angle. Yes, he had a clean pocket, but he released the ball just as the WR was coming out of his break. Excellent anticipation.
Link - ( New Window )
And Fields showing...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:41 pm : link
that pocket toughness and athleticism to break tackles.

Not a fan, though, when he starts peaking at the rush and stops going through his reads...
RE: RE: RE: RE: Gorgeous pass by Fields there  
Blue21 : 10/24/2020 12:43 pm : link
In comment 15023143 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15023140 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 15023135 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 15023130 Anakim said:


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TD Ohio State

The Real Deal - ( New Window )



Nice pass, but you have to admit there was no DL player within 5 yards of him and the WR had about 3 steps. This is the issue with evaluating him



I mean he had more time on that throw than Jones had added together from all his plays on Thurs night


Yes
Maybe it's my imagination...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:44 pm : link
but Fields throwing motion looks smoother and cleaner than last year. Need to dive into that a bit more. Last year I thought he tended to push the ball - guide it - rather than really come through it at times.
Lol anticipation? He had his guy beat on the break.  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/24/2020 12:47 pm : link
Great throw but no need to throw in buzzwords there. That was not an “anticipation” throw. The corner was sitting high and on the outside and the guy was running a post. That is not example of great anticipation. Every NFL QBs makes that throw. I will give him that was a dime.
RE: Maybe it's my imagination...  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/24/2020 12:48 pm : link
In comment 15023153 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but Fields throwing motion looks smoother and cleaner than last year. Need to dive into that a bit more. Last year I thought he tended to push the ball - guide it - rather than really come through it at times.


He’s very smooth as a passer.
I think Jones deserves another year  
Jay on the Island : 10/24/2020 12:50 pm : link
He has the 32 ranked rushing attack, few weapons, and an OL that is struggling mightily.

I wouldn't be opposed to drafting Fields or even Trey Lance if the Giants loved either one but I think it's wiser to focus on other positions like ER, WR, CB, etc.
Ooooof  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:50 pm : link
That Nebraska TE got walloped. He was turned inside out and landed on his head. Looks like his knee got the worst of it.
RE: Lol anticipation? He had his guy beat on the break.  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:50 pm : link
In comment 15023159 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
Great throw but no need to throw in buzzwords there. That was not an “anticipation” throw. The corner was sitting high and on the outside and the guy was running a post. That is not example of great anticipation. Every NFL QBs makes that throw. I will give him that was a dime.


Fields threw the ball just as the WR was coming out of his break. It was excellent ball placement.
RE: I think Jones deserves another year  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:51 pm : link
In comment 15023165 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
He has the 32 ranked rushing attack, few weapons, and an OL that is struggling mightily.

I wouldn't be opposed to drafting Fields or even Trey Lance if the Giants loved either one but I think it's wiser to focus on other positions like ER, WR, CB, etc.


For sure, but if you have the chance to take Lawrence or Fields, who are simply better QB prospects than Jones is and was, you seize the opportunity.
RE: I think Jones deserves another year  
PatersonPlank : 10/24/2020 12:54 pm : link
In comment 15023165 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
He has the 32 ranked rushing attack, few weapons, and an OL that is struggling mightily.

I wouldn't be opposed to drafting Fields or even Trey Lance if the Giants loved either one but I think it's wiser to focus on other positions like ER, WR, CB, etc.


IMO Trey Lance is a project. Personally I wouldn't touch him in the top rounds
LOL - MSU with 3 turnovers already in the 1st half  
PatersonPlank : 10/24/2020 12:55 pm : link
21-7 RU. However as always with RU, there is a long way to go.
Austin Allen...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:57 pm : link
is a huge TE. Guy is a tree...
RE: Austin Allen...  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 12:59 pm : link
In comment 15023176 bw in dc said:
Quote:
is a huge TE. Guy is a tree...


Minnesota has this freak at OT who makes Mekhi Becton look like a poodle. The kid is 6'10, 400 pounds, but he's VERY athletic for his size.
The closer the Huskers keep this game...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 12:59 pm : link
the more opportunity for Fields to throw.
RE: RE: Austin Allen...  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 1:01 pm : link
In comment 15023180 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 15023176 bw in dc said:


Quote:


is a huge TE. Guy is a tree...



Minnesota has this freak at OT who makes Mekhi Becton look like a poodle. The kid is 6'10, 400 pounds, but he's VERY athletic for his size.



"According to Bruce Feldman of The Athletic, Minnesota sophomore (now junior) T Daniel Faalele recorded a vertical jump of 29 inches and an 8-foot, 7-inch broad jump.
Those numbers would be impressive for any lineman, much less one with the physical dimensions of Faalale. The rising sophomore is listed at 6-foot-9, 400 pounds, and in addition to the vertical and broad jump numbers he benches 391 pounds, hang cleans 375 and squats 570. Feldman also noted that Faalele has 275 pounds of lean mass"
RE: Better tools than Haskins  
cokeduplt : 10/24/2020 1:01 pm : link
In comment 15023073 JonC said:
Quote:
Different athlete and competitor level in him too. Not sure he's a top 5 talent tho.



You keep saying that but not giving a reason why? Kids is insanely talented he’s most likely top 3
RE: RE: Lol anticipation? He had his guy beat on the break.  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/24/2020 1:02 pm : link
In comment 15023168 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 15023159 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


Great throw but no need to throw in buzzwords there. That was not an “anticipation” throw. The corner was sitting high and on the outside and the guy was running a post. That is not example of great anticipation. Every NFL QBs makes that throw. I will give him that was a dime.



Fields threw the ball just as the WR was coming out of his break. It was excellent ball placement.


Right but the corner but was sitting on the top and outside. Shit any D1 QB is making that throw not just NFL. It was a dime, but to say that’s anticipation is ludicrous.
Interesting that...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 1:04 pm : link
the Klatt just said he sees the change in Fields's motion.
Like the call to go for it. Nebraska’s defense sucks and there O  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/24/2020 1:05 pm : link
looks like they brought it today
RE: RE: Austin Allen...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 1:07 pm : link
In comment 15023180 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 15023176 bw in dc said:


Quote:


is a huge TE. Guy is a tree...



Minnesota has this freak at OT who makes Mekhi Becton look like a poodle. The kid is 6'10, 400 pounds, but he's VERY athletic for his size.


Right. Saw him last year. I may have brought him when people where talking about Bechton and his size prior to the draft. Faaelele is a airplane hanger. Australian...right?
Fields is throwing...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 1:09 pm : link
lasers.
Fields is 10/10. He has all but 20 of Ohio State's offensive yards.  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 1:11 pm : link
.
RE: Hate to tell you people....  
djm : 10/24/2020 1:11 pm : link
In comment 15023087 giant_thoughts said:
Quote:
Jones isn't going anywhere!


I think this is probably accurate. Probably. A lot has to happen from now until April for the giants to not only end up drafting a hot shot qb in round one but for jones to be actually be dealt. It’s possible but a so many dominoes need to fall.


No way that was targeting...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 1:11 pm : link
shoulder to shoulder...
Clear  
Toth029 : 10/24/2020 1:11 pm : link
Shoulder hit that they wanna flag?
RE: Better tools than Haskins  
barens : 10/24/2020 1:11 pm : link
In comment 15023073 JonC said:
Quote:
Different athlete and competitor level in him too. Not sure he's a top 5 talent tho.


I think he is, he’s always had the arm talent, and has always been neck and neck with Lawrence coming out of high school. The biggest thing to look for is whether he plays with timing and anticipation in the pocket as the season goes on.
Fields is a smother athlete...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 1:13 pm : link
and mover than Lawrence, btw.
Tell you what  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 1:13 pm : link
If the Giants and Jets wind up with picks 1 and 2, how amazing would it be to see the Lawrence vs. Fields rivalry continue.
The Ohio State OC is calling some awful plays  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 1:14 pm : link
That's what? The third 3rd and short that they've called a run on and failed?
Just want to set the table here...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 1:16 pm : link
and make sure when we talk Lawrence that we also mention he's playing with top level talent as well.
Well, there's the first incompletion  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 1:26 pm : link
And it was on a ball that Olave should've caught in the end zone
Even  
AcidTest : 10/24/2020 1:27 pm : link
though it was incomplete, that was another incredibly accurate downfield throw by Fields.
Some  
Toth029 : 10/24/2020 1:29 pm : link
Bad officiating today.
I will always root for Jones,  
barens : 10/24/2020 1:31 pm : link
But one thing that sticks out to me that he just doesn’t do so well, is throw the ball on the run. As great of an athlete that he is, he just looks awkward doing so.

The thing I like about Fields, is that you can alleviate a lot of growing pains by being able to extend plays.
Wonder if Smart...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 1:35 pm : link
has any regrets going with Fromm over Fields?
RE: Just want to set the table here...  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/24/2020 1:36 pm : link
In comment 15023214 bw in dc said:
Quote:
and make sure when we talk Lawrence that we also mention he's playing with top level talent as well.


There's a lot more tape on Lawrence versus tape defenses at this point though and he's rang the ball. I'm not even sure what to take from this game against Nebraska. They have one of the worst defenses in the Big10. I will say Fields certainly looks the part though, but doubt anybody is going to use this one as a go to game for scouting purposes.
RE: I will always root for Jones,  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 1:37 pm : link
In comment 15023239 barens said:
Quote:

The thing I like about Fields, is that you can alleviate a lot of growing pains by being able to extend plays.


True. But I do think Jones is underrated throwing on the move. I think that's one of his better features. I don't think that he's that great throwing from a pocket...
RE: Wonder if Smart...  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/24/2020 1:37 pm : link
In comment 15023244 bw in dc said:
Quote:
has any regrets going with Fromm over Fields?


Has to. I can't believe anyone ever watched Fromm and thought he was good. The fact there were people here talkin about him to us made me want to puke.
Trevor Lawrence just thew a pick-6  
Anakim : 10/24/2020 1:38 pm : link
The ball was behind his receiver and it deflected off his hands into the DB's
RE: RE: Just want to set the table here...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 1:39 pm : link
In comment 15023245 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:

There's a lot more tape on Lawrence versus tape defenses at this point though and he's rang the ball. I'm not even sure what to take from this game against Nebraska. They have one of the worst defenses in the Big10. I will say Fields certainly looks the part though, but doubt anybody is going to use this one as a go to game for scouting purposes.


Agree on the last part - just one game so far this season for Fields. Need more intel.

Lawrence was indeed terrific vs Alabama. Not so versus LSU. And the ACC is not littered with top defenses anymore now that Miami and FSU have slipped...
RE: RE: Wonder if Smart...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 1:41 pm : link
In comment 15023248 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15023244 bw in dc said:


Quote:


has any regrets going with Fromm over Fields?



Has to. I can't believe anyone ever watched Fromm and thought he was good. The fact there were people here talkin about him to us made me want to puke.


Ain't that the truth. Some around here had him as a first rounder. That was one of the dumber things I have ever read around here...
RE: RE: I will always root for Jones,  
barens : 10/24/2020 1:42 pm : link
In comment 15023246 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15023239 barens said:


Quote:



The thing I like about Fields, is that you can alleviate a lot of growing pains by being able to extend plays.



True. But I do think Jones is underrated throwing on the move. I think that's one of his better features. I don't think that he's that great throwing from a pocket...


Really? I think it’s the opposite. I think he’s really good in the pocket, runs a great read option, but once he has to leave the pocket, I think he struggles to create with his arm.
We  
AcidTest : 10/24/2020 1:44 pm : link
obviously have to see the rest of the season for all of these players before making a final decision. But I agree that as of now, I don't see the Giants dumping Jones for Fields.
RE: RE: RE: I will always root for Jones,  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 1:48 pm : link
In comment 15023255 barens said:
Quote:

Really? I think it’s the opposite. I think he’s really good in the pocket, runs a great read option, but once he has to leave the pocket, I think he struggles to create with his arm.


I could be off on this. I just happen to like Jones on the move. The more he stays in the pocket the more I think he's prone to turnovers.
RE: We  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 1:51 pm : link
In comment 15023259 AcidTest said:
Quote:
obviously have to see the rest of the season for all of these players before making a final decision. But I agree that as of now, I don't see the Giants dumping Jones for Fields.


Just based on the Mara Way, I agree.

But it's any sell for me - Fields is a more dynamic prospect than Jones. So many more plus attributes.
LSU misses Brady  
BigBlueCane : 10/24/2020 2:04 pm : link
more than they miss Burrows.

And the Fields love is grass always greener syndrome.
This game is elevating  
allstarjim : 10/24/2020 2:06 pm : link
Fields in my mind. Couple of thoughts, want to see the intermediate throws outside of the hash marks. If he checks that box with arm strength, he is really going to get my attention.

To me, it's not a question that Fields is a superior prospect to Jones at QB. Just more dynamic as a creator.

I will say this. The second would be TD throw that Olave dropped on the deep post, it was a good pass, not a great one. Olave made a great attempt going high for the ball, but if Fields places that ball a few steps more towards the left hash, it's an easy TD. I think this needed to be pointed out bc the broadcast crew was talking about it being a perfect throw, it was not.

The deep throws between the hashes do look good, but these aren't the biggest degree of difficulty throws. So I want to see more, but the tools seem to be there to garner some pretty exciting comps for Fields.
RE: LSU misses Brady  
allstarjim : 10/24/2020 2:09 pm : link
In comment 15023272 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
more than they miss Burrows.

And the Fields love is grass always greener syndrome.


Greatest season by a QB in CFB history. As great an OC as Brady is, Burrow still needs to execute it on the field and he did so with historic efficiency. Brady still watches from the sideline.
People really got to stop the  
ajr2456 : 10/24/2020 2:09 pm : link
“He has a turn around him and a ton of time to throw” for every top college QB prospect.

Great college football teams are going to be talented.
RE: People really got to stop the  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/24/2020 2:19 pm : link
In comment 15023278 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
“He has a turn around him and a ton of time to throw” for every top college QB prospect.

Great college football teams are going to be talented.


Yeah, I dont really understand this either. Its a stupid, stupid way to pretend to 'scout' a qb. This is not how professional evaluators think.
RE: RE: People really got to stop the  
ajr2456 : 10/24/2020 2:25 pm : link
In comment 15023287 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15023278 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


“He has a turn around him and a ton of time to throw” for every top college QB prospect.

Great college football teams are going to be talented.



Yeah, I dont really understand this either. Its a stupid, stupid way to pretend to 'scout' a qb. This is not how professional evaluators think.


Yup. There’s ways to evaluate a QB while separating the talent around him.

It’s weird, Jones gets the excuses that he has nothing around him, but we also have to be careful and not take Fields because he has a really good team around him. What exactly do people want?
Did anyone  
crick n NC : 10/24/2020 2:29 pm : link
Say, "don't take fields because of surrounding talent"? Considering the circumstances of a player is logical, whether you're talking about lack of talent or great talent. It's not the deciding factor, but should it be considered in my opinion.
RE: RE: I think Jones deserves another year  
Gruber : 10/24/2020 2:33 pm : link
In comment 15023169 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 15023165 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


He has the 32 ranked rushing attack, few weapons, and an OL that is struggling mightily.

I wouldn't be opposed to drafting Fields or even Trey Lance if the Giants loved either one but I think it's wiser to focus on other positions like ER, WR, CB, etc.



For sure, but if you have the chance to take Lawrence or Fields, who are simply better QB prospects than Jones is and was, you seize the opportunity.


Don't worry, if the opportunity presents itself, we will. I guarantee it.
RE: Did anyone  
ajr2456 : 10/24/2020 2:34 pm : link
In comment 15023295 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Say, "don't take fields because of surrounding talent"? Considering the circumstances of a player is logical, whether you're talking about lack of talent or great talent. It's not the deciding factor, but should it be considered in my opinion.


Except it’s not a factor at all. The talent around him is inconsequential to evaluating him, unless you’re only looking at touchdowns and highlights.

The talent around him has no impact on how fast he goes through his progressions, his arm strength, his internal clock, his accuracy, or his athleticism.
RE: RE: People really got to stop the  
PatersonPlank : 10/24/2020 2:38 pm : link
In comment 15023287 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15023278 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


“He has a turn around him and a ton of time to throw” for every top college QB prospect.

Great college football teams are going to be talented.



Yeah, I dont really understand this either. Its a stupid, stupid way to pretend to 'scout' a qb. This is not how professional evaluators think.


It definitely has to be part of the conversation. There are lots of lots of QB's who looked really good because of their surrounding talent, Leinert is the first one that comes to mind, also J Russell, yes Haskins, Rosen, on and on.

That is why things like private workouts and combines become so important. The scouts get to see these guys out of their environment, and shoulder to shoulder with their peers.

You can't just proclaim a guys is going to be good just because he looks good for Ohio St or Clemson. All it means is that they likely were better when they were 18, but now they are 22. Lots of times the kid from Duke or Vandy (Cutler for example) is better but his stats are worse.
RE: RE: Did anyone  
crick n NC : 10/24/2020 2:39 pm : link
In comment 15023301 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15023295 crick n NC said:


Quote:


Say, "don't take fields because of surrounding talent"? Considering the circumstances of a player is logical, whether you're talking about lack of talent or great talent. It's not the deciding factor, but should it be considered in my opinion.



Except it’s not a factor at all. The talent around him is inconsequential to evaluating him, unless you’re only looking at touchdowns and highlights.

The talent around him has no impact on how fast he goes through his progressions, his arm strength, his internal clock, his accuracy, or his athleticism.


Ok, we'll just disagree on that.
If his receivers are wide open, and he has 10 seconds to throw,  
PatersonPlank : 10/24/2020 2:41 pm : link
he sure will look more accurate in a game. It is also a lot easier to go through progressions in 10 seconds than 2 seconds. However put him in a private workout, with a common set of receivers and time, then we will see. This also holds true for all the other scouting factors.
RE: RE: Did anyone  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/24/2020 2:41 pm : link
In comment 15023301 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15023295 crick n NC said:


Quote:


Say, "don't take fields because of surrounding talent"? Considering the circumstances of a player is logical, whether you're talking about lack of talent or great talent. It's not the deciding factor, but should it be considered in my opinion.



Except it’s not a factor at all. The talent around him is inconsequential to evaluating him, unless you’re only looking at touchdowns and highlights.

The talent around him has no impact on how fast he goes through his progressions, his arm strength, his internal clock, his accuracy, or his athleticism.


Sure it does. Lot easier to get comfortable in the pocket when the pass rush you are facing is a light breeze. Haskins QB rating against pressure was unreal because he rarely faced it and when he did his guts would win their 1v1 battles. I want to see what a guy looks like when he’s facing down in and down our pressure and how he reacts to that mentally.
RE: RE: RE: Did anyone  
ajr2456 : 10/24/2020 2:48 pm : link
In comment 15023306 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15023301 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15023295 crick n NC said:


Quote:


Say, "don't take fields because of surrounding talent"? Considering the circumstances of a player is logical, whether you're talking about lack of talent or great talent. It's not the deciding factor, but should it be considered in my opinion.



Except it’s not a factor at all. The talent around him is inconsequential to evaluating him, unless you’re only looking at touchdowns and highlights.

The talent around him has no impact on how fast he goes through his progressions, his arm strength, his internal clock, his accuracy, or his athleticism.



Sure it does. Lot easier to get comfortable in the pocket when the pass rush you are facing is a light breeze. Haskins QB rating against pressure was unreal because he rarely faced it and when he did his guts would win their 1v1 battles. I want to see what a guy looks like when he’s facing down in and down our pressure and how he reacts to that mentally.


Then you’ll only be drafting QBs from average programs then.
RE: If his receivers are wide open, and he has 10 seconds to throw,  
ajr2456 : 10/24/2020 2:49 pm : link
In comment 15023305 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
he sure will look more accurate in a game. It is also a lot easier to go through progressions in 10 seconds than 2 seconds. However put him in a private workout, with a common set of receivers and time, then we will see. This also holds true for all the other scouting factors.


No college QB has 10 seconds in the pocket and id wager most of Fields’ throws are out in under 5 seconds. The receiver being open doesn’t mean you’ll complete the throw.
RE: RE: If his receivers are wide open, and he has 10 seconds to throw,  
PatersonPlank : 10/24/2020 3:00 pm : link
In comment 15023311 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15023305 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


he sure will look more accurate in a game. It is also a lot easier to go through progressions in 10 seconds than 2 seconds. However put him in a private workout, with a common set of receivers and time, then we will see. This also holds true for all the other scouting factors.



No college QB has 10 seconds in the pocket and id wager most of Fields’ throws are out in under 5 seconds. The receiver being open doesn’t mean you’ll complete the throw.


I was making an example. Anyway, of course if you have no pressure and more time to throw, you will have a better chance of being accurate than if you have a DL in your face or if you are on the run. That is a fact.

This is why you need to put all these guys ins a common environment (or as close to it as you can make) and then see who does what. I am not saying Fields won't be good, I don't know frankly. All I am saying is fans get all rev'd up by QB's from programs with big stats, but a lot of time the situation (much better talent than their opponents) adds a lot to the performance. Conversely someone like Cutler at Vandy had crap around him (an example I like to use). Rosen and Leinert are 2 good examples, as is Jamarcus Russel.
Meanwhile in Rutgers land Mich St has 6 turnovers so far  
PatersonPlank : 10/24/2020 3:05 pm : link
What a mess MSU is. 31-20 RU with 6 minutes to go
RE: RE: RE: Did anyone  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 3:12 pm : link
In comment 15023306 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:


Sure it does. Lot easier to get comfortable in the pocket when the pass rush you are facing is a light breeze.


This is where my head is, too. So you have to consider this in the equation.

However, it shouldn't get in the way of the evaluation either. For example, it should be pretty clear to either the trained or untrained eye that a guy like Fields moves better, throws better and is a better athlete than his predecessor Haskins. Despite both players having elite speed at the skill positions and elite protection...
RE: Meanwhile in Rutgers land Mich St has 6 turnovers so far  
BH28 : 10/24/2020 3:15 pm : link
In comment 15023324 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
What a mess MSU is. 31-20 RU with 6 minutes to go


Schiano should send this game tape to the Giants and label it: How to not blow an 11 point lead with 6 minutes left.
RE: LSU misses Brady  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 3:16 pm : link
In comment 15023272 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
more than they miss Burrows.

And the Fields love is grass always greener syndrome.


How is it going Cane? See your boys have cracked the top ten in recruiting for 2021s...
Apparently the thread of a lawsuit by Nebraska  
BigBlueCane : 10/24/2020 3:17 pm : link
was enough for the Big Ten to instruct officials not to use lube.

I’m with ‘bw’ on Kirby Smart  
Mark in ATL : 10/24/2020 3:42 pm : link
Mishandling of the Fields/Fromm situation. I bet he does regret it. Fromm reminded me of another UGA quarterback Eric Zeier who a number of fans were enamored with but had a very limited NFL career. It is hard to evaluate college quarterbacks on these very good college teams with lots of talent. The few times I’ve watched Burrow I’ve been impressed with him.
RE: I’m with ‘bw’ on Kirby Smart  
markky : 10/24/2020 3:53 pm : link
In comment 15023343 Mark in ATL said:
Quote:
Mishandling of the Fields/Fromm situation. I bet he does regret it. Fromm reminded me of another UGA quarterback Eric Zeier who a number of fans were enamored with but had a very limited NFL career. It is hard to evaluate college quarterbacks on these very good college teams with lots of talent. The few times I’ve watched Burrow I’ve been impressed with him.


isn't Burrows older than Jones?
RE: RE: People really got to stop the  
JayBinQueens : 10/24/2020 4:05 pm : link
In comment 15023287 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15023278 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


“He has a turn around him and a ton of time to throw” for every top college QB prospect.

Great college football teams are going to be talented.



Yeah, I dont really understand this either. Its a stupid, stupid way to pretend to 'scout' a qb. This is not how professional evaluators think.

I assumed professional evaluators watch the 8 min highlight clips of each player on youtube like the rest of the BBI experts
RE: RE: I’m with ‘bw’ on Kirby Smart  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 4:26 pm : link
In comment 15023350 markky said:
Quote:
In comment 15023343 Mark in ATL said:


Quote:


Mishandling of the Fields/Fromm situation. I bet he does regret it. Fromm reminded me of another UGA quarterback Eric Zeier who a number of fans were enamored with but had a very limited NFL career. It is hard to evaluate college quarterbacks on these very good college teams with lots of talent. The few times I’ve watched Burrow I’ve been impressed with him.



isn't Burrows older than Jones?


Yes. I think by six months...
BTW...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 4:34 pm : link
I think Mac Jones is a very good QB prospect. Not sure if he's first round material, but he's a lot better than I thought.
Not sure if it’s been mentioned  
BigBlueShock : 10/24/2020 4:47 pm : link
But Waddle was taken to the hospital with a lower leg injury which occurred on the opening kickoff. I know he’s been mentioned around here as a WR people like at the next level. Hopefully it’s not too serious but not looking good
Fields played a great game!!  
Carl in CT : 10/24/2020 4:54 pm : link
But remember this..... OSU has so much better talent around them that it’s easy too. Never gets pressure and receivers are better than the DBs they play against. That’s not the case on the Giants. Very hard to evaluate (IE Haskins). If so good why didn’t he start at Georgia? I know the Cam vs Tebo thing. Just hard to judge. We got a kid to relay around who plays his ass off with dog shit pressures on almost every play. It’s sickening. This kid gets up every time also. Not like many QBs.
RE: Fields played a great game!!  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 5:25 pm : link
In comment 15023397 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
But remember this..... OSU has so much better talent around them that it’s easy too. Never gets pressure and receivers are better than the DBs they play against. That’s not the case on the Giants. Very hard to evaluate (IE Haskins). If so good why didn’t he start at Georgia? I know the Cam vs Tebo thing. Just hard to judge. We got a kid to relay around who plays his ass off with dog shit pressures on almost every play. It’s sickening. This kid gets up every time also. Not like many QBs.


This talent issue has been discussed above.

Maybe Kirby Smart picked the wrong horse in Fromm. And that's why they could never get over the hump...
Wow  
jeff57 : 10/24/2020 7:41 pm : link
This Indiana-Penn State finish.
Im sorry, but unless we can get Lawrence,  
chopperhatch : 10/24/2020 7:41 pm : link
There is NOT a better QB than Jones in this draft. Swap Daniel Jones and Josh Allen given the personnel and Jones is probably putting up historic numbers. Yes, theturnovers are maddening, but he has been dealt two, REALLY shitty hands in terms of line and weapons. If Kaden Smith is running the same route as Engram did on Thurs, we are talking about how we win the division.

I have not seen a QB who can take off like Jones can and still looks to feather tosses in the bucket. I have not seen toughness that Jones displays, getting tough yards when he needs them nor shaking off the hurries he has had to endure because his team is developing.

If we dont get #1, Jones gets at least a 3rd year. Just a realistic assessment. I have a feeling this kid becomes a winner once he has faith in his protection as well as his weapons.
RE: Wow  
Big Al : 10/24/2020 7:58 pm : link
In comment 15023508 jeff57 said:
Quote:
This Indiana-Penn State finish.
Penn State player screws up by scoring TD and in overtime Indiana wins on 2 point conversion which was probably out of bounds but too close to reverse.
Terrace Marshall  
Professor Falken : 10/24/2020 8:05 pm : link
WR, LSU. Interesting prospect. #1 receiver for LSU, now that Chase opted out. Good size, 6'3", 200. Junior so could declare early. Just beat Jaycee Horn for a TD.
RE: Im sorry, but unless we can get Lawrence,  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 10:36 pm : link
In comment 15023509 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
There is NOT a better QB than Jones in this draft. Swap Daniel Jones and Josh Allen given the personnel and Jones is probably putting up historic numbers. Yes, theturnovers are maddening, but he has been dealt two, REALLY shitty hands in terms of line and weapons. If Kaden Smith is running the same route as Engram did on Thurs, we are talking about how we win the division.

I have not seen a QB who can take off like Jones can and still looks to feather tosses in the bucket. I have not seen toughness that Jones displays, getting tough yards when he needs them nor shaking off the hurries he has had to endure because his team is developing.

If we dont get #1, Jones gets at least a 3rd year. Just a realistic assessment. I have a feeling this kid becomes a winner once he has faith in his protection as well as his weapons.


IMV, Fields has more physical attributes than Jones with a higher ceiling; and he's two years younger. In fact, I think a case can be the physical gifts between Fields and Lawrence are very close...if not even.
RE: RE: Im sorry, but unless we can get Lawrence,  
chopperhatch : 10/24/2020 10:53 pm : link
In comment 15023571 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15023509 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


There is NOT a better QB than Jones in this draft. Swap Daniel Jones and Josh Allen given the personnel and Jones is probably putting up historic numbers. Yes, theturnovers are maddening, but he has been dealt two, REALLY shitty hands in terms of line and weapons. If Kaden Smith is running the same route as Engram did on Thurs, we are talking about how we win the division.

I have not seen a QB who can take off like Jones can and still looks to feather tosses in the bucket. I have not seen toughness that Jones displays, getting tough yards when he needs them nor shaking off the hurries he has had to endure because his team is developing.

If we dont get #1, Jones gets at least a 3rd year. Just a realistic assessment. I have a feeling this kid becomes a winner once he has faith in his protection as well as his weapons.



IMV, Fields has more physical attributes than Jones with a higher ceiling; and he's two years younger. In fact, I think a case can be the physical gifts between Fields and Lawrence are very close...if not even.


I dont know how you can claim Fields has more physical talent. Jones has plenty of arm strength and has wowed more than a few with not only his foot speed, but his ability to absorb hits/toughness. Fields....looks fine, with an absolutely loaded team. Most of his throws are to receivers that are definitively open and he doesnt have to take many hits.

Im not saying that Fields is Dwayne Haskins. But I think using a top 5 draft pick on Fields doesnt make sense because while he MIGHT be better than Jones at some things (taking care of the ball), he doesnt have the ability to be a game breaker. Jones does.

Yes his turnovers are frustrating. No he hasnt made chicken salad out of chicken shit. But Fields is not as impressive in terms of physical talent as Jones has been.

Again, if Engram catches that pass, if Lewis doesnt fumble, we are talking about an unlilely run at the division with boo boo and the fools as his supporting cast.
chopperhatch...  
bw in dc : 10/24/2020 11:25 pm : link
Indeed, Fields is surrounded by talent. But there is a lot of good snap to his throws, especially outside the hash marks, and he hits a lot of receivers in stride. That's what I try to focus on and not get distracted by the talent advantage. At the end of the day, Fields or any QB still has to execute the play.

The bigger issue is time to throw. So many of these elite programs - Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc - have superior OL talent than most teams and are able to give their QB plenty of time to execute. So trying to figure out how those QBs will deal with less time is very challenging...

Jones has a decent arm - I don't think he's a threat beating teams with throws outside the hashes to the sidelines - and I think he's a good athlete. But I've seen enough of Fields to say he is an elite athlete at QB. He can legitimately run a RPO offense in the NFL. NFW can Jones do that without taking too much punishment. Fields bounces off defenders and can also dish out punishment. And Fields isn't going to trip over his feet on an 80 yard run with no one within fifteen yard of him... ;)

In all likelihood, I think ownership is locked on Jones for the long run. So this is probably all academic...
RE: RE: RE: Im sorry, but unless we can get Lawrence,  
JesseS : 10/24/2020 11:36 pm : link
In comment 15023575 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 15023571 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15023509 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


There is NOT a better QB than Jones in this draft. Swap Daniel Jones and Josh Allen given the personnel and Jones is probably putting up historic numbers. Yes, theturnovers are maddening, but he has been dealt two, REALLY shitty hands in terms of line and weapons. If Kaden Smith is running the same route as Engram did on Thurs, we are talking about how we win the division.

I have not seen a QB who can take off like Jones can and still looks to feather tosses in the bucket. I have not seen toughness that Jones displays, getting tough yards when he needs them nor shaking off the hurries he has had to endure because his team is developing.

If we dont get #1, Jones gets at least a 3rd year. Just a realistic assessment. I have a feeling this kid becomes a winner once he has faith in his protection as well as his weapons.



IMV, Fields has more physical attributes than Jones with a higher ceiling; and he's two years younger. In fact, I think a case can be the physical gifts between Fields and Lawrence are very close...if not even.



I dont know how you can claim Fields has more physical talent. Jones has plenty of arm strength and has wowed more than a few with not only his foot speed, but his ability to absorb hits/toughness. Fields....looks fine, with an absolutely loaded team. Most of his throws are to receivers that are definitively open and he doesnt have to take many hits.

Im not saying that Fields is Dwayne Haskins. But I think using a top 5 draft pick on Fields doesnt make sense because while he MIGHT be better than Jones at some things (taking care of the ball), he doesnt have the ability to be a game breaker. Jones does.

Yes his turnovers are frustrating. No he hasnt made chicken salad out of chicken shit. But Fields is not as impressive in terms of physical talent as Jones has been.

Again, if Engram catches that pass, if Lewis doesnt fumble, we are talking about an unlilely run at the division with boo boo and the fools as his supporting cast.


I agree with most of what you're saying as far as what he brings to the game, but I can't agree on the arm talent. His throws just look so high effort to me, like he's pushing it, a la Rivers (which obviously worked out fine). This doesn't mean he'll be a bad qb, but I can't imagine considering arm strength in his talents. I think most qbs can throw far if they put their body into it and load up, but there are qbs that can do that with a flick of the wrist, which means they can do a lot more from a much worse position. Jones doesn't have that on his side. Now there are plenty of cannon arm qbs that stink...
RE: chopperhatch...  
chopperhatch : 10/24/2020 11:37 pm : link
In comment 15023585 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Indeed, Fields is surrounded by talent. But there is a lot of good snap to his throws, especially outside the hash marks, and he hits a lot of receivers in stride. That's what I try to focus on and not get distracted by the talent advantage. At the end of the day, Fields or any QB still has to execute the play.

The bigger issue is time to throw. So many of these elite programs - Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc - have superior OL talent than most teams and are able to give their QB plenty of time to execute. So trying to figure out how those QBs will deal with less time is very challenging...

Jones has a decent arm - I don't think he's a threat beating teams with throws outside the hashes to the sidelines - and I think he's a good athlete. But I've seen enough of Fields to say he is an elite athlete at QB. He can legitimately run a RPO offense in the NFL. NFW can Jones do that without taking too much punishment. Fields bounces off defenders and can also dish out punishment. And Fields isn't going to trip over his feet on an 80 yard run with no one within fifteen yard of him... ;)

In all likelihood, I think ownership is locked on Jones for the long run. So this is probably all academic...


I agreed with everything you said until you mentioned Jones not winning with throws outside the hashes. Hes done it several times. But also those throws require more time from the OL.

To be fair he did miss a couple this year, but they were overthrows.

Bottom line, Fields doesnt do things that can rip up a defensive game plan. Jones has ability to do that.

Its just not worth it to do the QB carousel again. Id rather wait two more years and go after the Manning. 😎
RE: RE: chopperhatch...  
barens : 10/25/2020 12:42 am : link
In comment 15023590 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 15023585 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Indeed, Fields is surrounded by talent. But there is a lot of good snap to his throws, especially outside the hash marks, and he hits a lot of receivers in stride. That's what I try to focus on and not get distracted by the talent advantage. At the end of the day, Fields or any QB still has to execute the play.

The bigger issue is time to throw. So many of these elite programs - Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc - have superior OL talent than most teams and are able to give their QB plenty of time to execute. So trying to figure out how those QBs will deal with less time is very challenging...

Jones has a decent arm - I don't think he's a threat beating teams with throws outside the hashes to the sidelines - and I think he's a good athlete. But I've seen enough of Fields to say he is an elite athlete at QB. He can legitimately run a RPO offense in the NFL. NFW can Jones do that without taking too much punishment. Fields bounces off defenders and can also dish out punishment. And Fields isn't going to trip over his feet on an 80 yard run with no one within fifteen yard of him... ;)

In all likelihood, I think ownership is locked on Jones for the long run. So this is probably all academic...



I agreed with everything you said until you mentioned Jones not winning with throws outside the hashes. Hes done it several times. But also those throws require more time from the OL.

To be fair he did miss a couple this year, but they were overthrows.

Bottom line, Fields doesnt do things that can rip up a defensive game plan. Jones has ability to do that.

Its just not worth it to do the QB carousel again. Id rather wait two more years and go after the Manning. 😎


Chop, we all love Jones and are rooting like hell for him, but if they can’t win any more games, then I think they seriously have to reevaluate their options. I’m no expert, and I can’t always see the whole field, but sometimes there is a reason why these teams are constantly blitzing Jones. There are times when there’s 1-1 co weave and guys are open, and he either doesn’t see, or he can’t pull the trigger(if he’s not being hit by AT’a man).

Regarding Fields, not sure how much more you need to see if Fields, but as a junior, he looks like he’s ripping up defenses just fine to me.
Yes, I would take Fields  
jeff57 : 10/25/2020 7:14 am : link
He’s better than Jones. And Jones just makes too many mistakes.
These  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/25/2020 7:52 am : link
college QB's are tough to evaluate. You have some playing with superior teams and not having the challenges of overcoming talent deficiencies. This to me is why so many bust or never live to expectations. It is still a team game and QB's need support around them (coaching and players).

I think the decision will ultimately come down to Judge. He has seen Jones in his prep, practice, handling adversity, how his teammates respond to him, etc.

He will ask himself can we win with him? What does he need to compliment him? I am sure the turnovers are concerning to him but I am leaning towards Judge being a fan of his regardless of where they pick.
Given the #1 or #2 pick I could subscribe to taking Lawrence  
LBH15 : 10/25/2020 8:11 am : link
versus trading for the wealth of picks including what you can get for Jones.

If it were left to just Fields, I would trade it away for the picks.



BTW, Michigan may finally have a QB worth mentioning.  
barens : 10/25/2020 9:18 am : link
Joe Milton looked pretty darn good last night. Here is a guy that waited his turn, ended up competing to beat out Dylan McCaffrey, and showed some real command for the position last night.

Maybe we'll be treated to a really good game against Ohio State this year
Fields  
ajr2456 : 10/25/2020 1:22 pm : link
Doesn’t have the ability to be a game breaker but Jones does? Cmon man. Take off the blue tinted glasses
RE: Fields  
bw in dc : 10/25/2020 2:51 pm : link
In comment 15023926 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Doesn’t have the ability to be a game breaker but Jones does? Cmon man. Take off the blue tinted glasses


Apparently Fields has been timed at 4.5 in high school and was recently timed in the low 4.4s. He's not LJax, but he's going to make a lot of plays with his legs in the pros.
RE: These  
bw in dc : 10/25/2020 2:59 pm : link
In comment 15023652 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
college QB's are tough to evaluate. You have some playing with superior teams and not having the challenges of overcoming talent deficiencies. This to me is why so many bust or never live to expectations. It is still a team game and QB's need support around them (coaching and players).

I think the decision will ultimately come down to Judge. He has seen Jones in his prep, practice, handling adversity, how his teammates respond to him, etc.

He will ask himself can we win with him? What does he need to compliment him? I am sure the turnovers are concerning to him but I am leaning towards Judge being a fan of his regardless of where they pick.


I'd like to think you are right, but I wouldn't rule out Mara having the final say on something at pivotal as QB.

And coming from the Belichick School of Football, where there is a huge premium on ball security, I would say Judge is not pleased with Jones to date...
Well, I’d like to not see Fields go to  
barens : 10/25/2020 3:39 pm : link
Dallas please.
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