on Fox.
If we do decide Jones isn’t the solution, Fields should be given a long look if we have a top five pick (but not the first).
I’ve been back and forth on him. Finally had a chance to be a starter last year after transferring from Georgia. Put up outstanding numbers. Just not sure about his overall passing qualities. But the physical attributes are certainly there...
Quote:
he sure will look more accurate in a game. It is also a lot easier to go through progressions in 10 seconds than 2 seconds. However put him in a private workout, with a common set of receivers and time, then we will see. This also holds true for all the other scouting factors.
No college QB has 10 seconds in the pocket and id wager most of Fields’ throws are out in under 5 seconds. The receiver being open doesn’t mean you’ll complete the throw.
I was making an example. Anyway, of course if you have no pressure and more time to throw, you will have a better chance of being accurate than if you have a DL in your face or if you are on the run. That is a fact.
This is why you need to put all these guys ins a common environment (or as close to it as you can make) and then see who does what. I am not saying Fields won't be good, I don't know frankly. All I am saying is fans get all rev'd up by QB's from programs with big stats, but a lot of time the situation (much better talent than their opponents) adds a lot to the performance. Conversely someone like Cutler at Vandy had crap around him (an example I like to use). Rosen and Leinert are 2 good examples, as is Jamarcus Russel.
Sure it does. Lot easier to get comfortable in the pocket when the pass rush you are facing is a light breeze.
This is where my head is, too. So you have to consider this in the equation.
However, it shouldn't get in the way of the evaluation either. For example, it should be pretty clear to either the trained or untrained eye that a guy like Fields moves better, throws better and is a better athlete than his predecessor Haskins. Despite both players having elite speed at the skill positions and elite protection...
Schiano should send this game tape to the Giants and label it: How to not blow an 11 point lead with 6 minutes left.
And the Fields love is grass always greener syndrome.
How is it going Cane? See your boys have cracked the top ten in recruiting for 2021s...
isn't Burrows older than Jones?
Quote:
“He has a turn around him and a ton of time to throw” for every top college QB prospect.
Great college football teams are going to be talented.
Yeah, I dont really understand this either. Its a stupid, stupid way to pretend to 'scout' a qb. This is not how professional evaluators think.
I assumed professional evaluators watch the 8 min highlight clips of each player on youtube like the rest of the BBI experts
Quote:
Mishandling of the Fields/Fromm situation. I bet he does regret it. Fromm reminded me of another UGA quarterback Eric Zeier who a number of fans were enamored with but had a very limited NFL career. It is hard to evaluate college quarterbacks on these very good college teams with lots of talent. The few times I’ve watched Burrow I’ve been impressed with him.
isn't Burrows older than Jones?
Yes. I think by six months...
This talent issue has been discussed above.
Maybe Kirby Smart picked the wrong horse in Fromm. And that's why they could never get over the hump...
I have not seen a QB who can take off like Jones can and still looks to feather tosses in the bucket. I have not seen toughness that Jones displays, getting tough yards when he needs them nor shaking off the hurries he has had to endure because his team is developing.
If we dont get #1, Jones gets at least a 3rd year. Just a realistic assessment. I have a feeling this kid becomes a winner once he has faith in his protection as well as his weapons.
I have not seen a QB who can take off like Jones can and still looks to feather tosses in the bucket. I have not seen toughness that Jones displays, getting tough yards when he needs them nor shaking off the hurries he has had to endure because his team is developing.
If we dont get #1, Jones gets at least a 3rd year. Just a realistic assessment. I have a feeling this kid becomes a winner once he has faith in his protection as well as his weapons.
IMV, Fields has more physical attributes than Jones with a higher ceiling; and he's two years younger. In fact, I think a case can be the physical gifts between Fields and Lawrence are very close...if not even.
Quote:
There is NOT a better QB than Jones in this draft. Swap Daniel Jones and Josh Allen given the personnel and Jones is probably putting up historic numbers. Yes, theturnovers are maddening, but he has been dealt two, REALLY shitty hands in terms of line and weapons. If Kaden Smith is running the same route as Engram did on Thurs, we are talking about how we win the division.
I have not seen a QB who can take off like Jones can and still looks to feather tosses in the bucket. I have not seen toughness that Jones displays, getting tough yards when he needs them nor shaking off the hurries he has had to endure because his team is developing.
If we dont get #1, Jones gets at least a 3rd year. Just a realistic assessment. I have a feeling this kid becomes a winner once he has faith in his protection as well as his weapons.
IMV, Fields has more physical attributes than Jones with a higher ceiling; and he's two years younger. In fact, I think a case can be the physical gifts between Fields and Lawrence are very close...if not even.
I dont know how you can claim Fields has more physical talent. Jones has plenty of arm strength and has wowed more than a few with not only his foot speed, but his ability to absorb hits/toughness. Fields....looks fine, with an absolutely loaded team. Most of his throws are to receivers that are definitively open and he doesnt have to take many hits.
Im not saying that Fields is Dwayne Haskins. But I think using a top 5 draft pick on Fields doesnt make sense because while he MIGHT be better than Jones at some things (taking care of the ball), he doesnt have the ability to be a game breaker. Jones does.
Yes his turnovers are frustrating. No he hasnt made chicken salad out of chicken shit. But Fields is not as impressive in terms of physical talent as Jones has been.
Again, if Engram catches that pass, if Lewis doesnt fumble, we are talking about an unlilely run at the division with boo boo and the fools as his supporting cast.
The bigger issue is time to throw. So many of these elite programs - Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc - have superior OL talent than most teams and are able to give their QB plenty of time to execute. So trying to figure out how those QBs will deal with less time is very challenging...
Jones has a decent arm - I don't think he's a threat beating teams with throws outside the hashes to the sidelines - and I think he's a good athlete. But I've seen enough of Fields to say he is an elite athlete at QB. He can legitimately run a RPO offense in the NFL. NFW can Jones do that without taking too much punishment. Fields bounces off defenders and can also dish out punishment. And Fields isn't going to trip over his feet on an 80 yard run with no one within fifteen yard of him... ;)
In all likelihood, I think ownership is locked on Jones for the long run. So this is probably all academic...
Quote:
In comment 15023509 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
There is NOT a better QB than Jones in this draft. Swap Daniel Jones and Josh Allen given the personnel and Jones is probably putting up historic numbers. Yes, theturnovers are maddening, but he has been dealt two, REALLY shitty hands in terms of line and weapons. If Kaden Smith is running the same route as Engram did on Thurs, we are talking about how we win the division.
I have not seen a QB who can take off like Jones can and still looks to feather tosses in the bucket. I have not seen toughness that Jones displays, getting tough yards when he needs them nor shaking off the hurries he has had to endure because his team is developing.
If we dont get #1, Jones gets at least a 3rd year. Just a realistic assessment. I have a feeling this kid becomes a winner once he has faith in his protection as well as his weapons.
IMV, Fields has more physical attributes than Jones with a higher ceiling; and he's two years younger. In fact, I think a case can be the physical gifts between Fields and Lawrence are very close...if not even.
I dont know how you can claim Fields has more physical talent. Jones has plenty of arm strength and has wowed more than a few with not only his foot speed, but his ability to absorb hits/toughness. Fields....looks fine, with an absolutely loaded team. Most of his throws are to receivers that are definitively open and he doesnt have to take many hits.
Im not saying that Fields is Dwayne Haskins. But I think using a top 5 draft pick on Fields doesnt make sense because while he MIGHT be better than Jones at some things (taking care of the ball), he doesnt have the ability to be a game breaker. Jones does.
Yes his turnovers are frustrating. No he hasnt made chicken salad out of chicken shit. But Fields is not as impressive in terms of physical talent as Jones has been.
Again, if Engram catches that pass, if Lewis doesnt fumble, we are talking about an unlilely run at the division with boo boo and the fools as his supporting cast.
I agree with most of what you're saying as far as what he brings to the game, but I can't agree on the arm talent. His throws just look so high effort to me, like he's pushing it, a la Rivers (which obviously worked out fine). This doesn't mean he'll be a bad qb, but I can't imagine considering arm strength in his talents. I think most qbs can throw far if they put their body into it and load up, but there are qbs that can do that with a flick of the wrist, which means they can do a lot more from a much worse position. Jones doesn't have that on his side. Now there are plenty of cannon arm qbs that stink...
The bigger issue is time to throw. So many of these elite programs - Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc - have superior OL talent than most teams and are able to give their QB plenty of time to execute. So trying to figure out how those QBs will deal with less time is very challenging...
Jones has a decent arm - I don't think he's a threat beating teams with throws outside the hashes to the sidelines - and I think he's a good athlete. But I've seen enough of Fields to say he is an elite athlete at QB. He can legitimately run a RPO offense in the NFL. NFW can Jones do that without taking too much punishment. Fields bounces off defenders and can also dish out punishment. And Fields isn't going to trip over his feet on an 80 yard run with no one within fifteen yard of him... ;)
In all likelihood, I think ownership is locked on Jones for the long run. So this is probably all academic...
I agreed with everything you said until you mentioned Jones not winning with throws outside the hashes. Hes done it several times. But also those throws require more time from the OL.
To be fair he did miss a couple this year, but they were overthrows.
Bottom line, Fields doesnt do things that can rip up a defensive game plan. Jones has ability to do that.
Its just not worth it to do the QB carousel again. Id rather wait two more years and go after the Manning. 😎
Quote:
Indeed, Fields is surrounded by talent. But there is a lot of good snap to his throws, especially outside the hash marks, and he hits a lot of receivers in stride. That's what I try to focus on and not get distracted by the talent advantage. At the end of the day, Fields or any QB still has to execute the play.
The bigger issue is time to throw. So many of these elite programs - Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc - have superior OL talent than most teams and are able to give their QB plenty of time to execute. So trying to figure out how those QBs will deal with less time is very challenging...
Jones has a decent arm - I don't think he's a threat beating teams with throws outside the hashes to the sidelines - and I think he's a good athlete. But I've seen enough of Fields to say he is an elite athlete at QB. He can legitimately run a RPO offense in the NFL. NFW can Jones do that without taking too much punishment. Fields bounces off defenders and can also dish out punishment. And Fields isn't going to trip over his feet on an 80 yard run with no one within fifteen yard of him... ;)
In all likelihood, I think ownership is locked on Jones for the long run. So this is probably all academic...
I agreed with everything you said until you mentioned Jones not winning with throws outside the hashes. Hes done it several times. But also those throws require more time from the OL.
To be fair he did miss a couple this year, but they were overthrows.
Bottom line, Fields doesnt do things that can rip up a defensive game plan. Jones has ability to do that.
Its just not worth it to do the QB carousel again. Id rather wait two more years and go after the Manning. 😎
Chop, we all love Jones and are rooting like hell for him, but if they can’t win any more games, then I think they seriously have to reevaluate their options. I’m no expert, and I can’t always see the whole field, but sometimes there is a reason why these teams are constantly blitzing Jones. There are times when there’s 1-1 co weave and guys are open, and he either doesn’t see, or he can’t pull the trigger(if he’s not being hit by AT’a man).
Regarding Fields, not sure how much more you need to see if Fields, but as a junior, he looks like he’s ripping up defenses just fine to me.
I think the decision will ultimately come down to Judge. He has seen Jones in his prep, practice, handling adversity, how his teammates respond to him, etc.
He will ask himself can we win with him? What does he need to compliment him? I am sure the turnovers are concerning to him but I am leaning towards Judge being a fan of his regardless of where they pick.
If it were left to just Fields, I would trade it away for the picks.
Maybe we'll be treated to a really good game against Ohio State this year
Apparently Fields has been timed at 4.5 in high school and was recently timed in the low 4.4s. He's not LJax, but he's going to make a lot of plays with his legs in the pros.
I think the decision will ultimately come down to Judge. He has seen Jones in his prep, practice, handling adversity, how his teammates respond to him, etc.
He will ask himself can we win with him? What does he need to compliment him? I am sure the turnovers are concerning to him but I am leaning towards Judge being a fan of his regardless of where they pick.
I'd like to think you are right, but I wouldn't rule out Mara having the final say on something at pivotal as QB.
And coming from the Belichick School of Football, where there is a huge premium on ball security, I would say Judge is not pleased with Jones to date...