Sell by the trade deadline and accumulate as many picks as possible
Zeitler
Tate
Fackrell
Engram
New GM prior to draft
Trade down the high draft pick for multiple picks
Get an additional first rounder
Two second rounders
Two third rounders
Use FA to put a stud WR next to Slayton and a stud Center in front of DJ
Use the draft mainly for defense
Pray Saquan can return to his pre injury state
I believe Judge is the coach to lead them back to respectability
That’s the formula I believe in
Agree. But that doesn’t say much
Jones still gets to much pressure up middle
Gates would be perfect swing tackle /guard / back up center
He's been doing exactly what we wanted so far. He started the season very poorly but has improved each week as he gets more comfortable at center. After a normal offseason he will be even better next season. IMO the Giants have their long term center but I would still like to see them add a better backup than Pulley in the draft unless they think Javon Patterson or Kyle Murphy are capable backups.
Hopefully the offensive line consists of Thomas, Hernandez, Gates, Lemieux, and Peart soon. Let the kids play and get comfortable together especially if they are the expected starters next season.
Zeitler (4th/5th?)
Tate (7th?)
Fackrell (5th? But don't get rid of this guy unless we want our pass rush to hit absolute zero)
Engram (6th/7th?)
2 new offensive weapons (WR or TE)
1 new Edge
1 new CB
This past offseason they added 2 very solid starters on defense on multi-year deals and 2 others on 1 year deals who I'd try to resign (Ryan/Fackrell). They also used a premium pick on McKinney who will hopefully make an impact once healthy. On offense they drafted Thomas. Had they used the premium pick on McKinney who we have seen yet, that could have easily been Tee Higgins or Claypool (just noting the value of the pick relative to the 2021 2nd). That's 6 starters though in 1 offseason - at least 4 of them having made a decent positive impact already.
So between their 1st/2nd round picks and their 1 or 2 bigger FA signings they could actually check off the 4 additions I mentioned above relatively easily compared to last offseason. And that's treating pretty much anyone they add from the 3rd round on like gravy, which Holmes, Crowder, Slayton and Peart, etc. have shown to be possible.
Whether they decide to keep or replace Zeitler, Tate, Solder in the offseason I don't mind so much. It will just depend on math and alternatives available. If they can get value for Zeitler now I would consider it if they think Lemieux may be part of the solution.
As a thought experiment imagining the same players who were available this past offseason were available next offseason, along with retaining the majority of the current roster, how would this team look right now adding talent like Ceedee Lamb and Jaylon Johnson from their top 2 draft picks along with a couple FA like Robbie Anderson and Robert Quinn? Plus Saquon and McKinney back from injuries.
I'd let Judge keep adding pieces like he did this past offseason and keep surrounding Jones with players who can make his job easier.
Kenny Galloday or Allen Robinson (FA) instead of Golden Tate
Desmond King or Michael Davis (FA) instead of Harper/Balentine
Micah Parsons or Greg Rousseau (first rd pick) instead of Downs/Golden
Rashad Bateman or Devonta Smith (second rd pick) instead of CJ Board/Austin Mack
plus Barkley and McKinney back. None of that is very hard to imagine and there's probably room for some more depth signings too.
I'd really like to see what Judge/Jones could do with that roster and a year under their belts with these systems.
same goes for changing the system every year. there are 22 players starting that are in year 1 of offensive and defensive systems. They need to keep a large chunk of the pieces together for it to work
2 new offensive weapons (WR or TE)
1 new Edge
1 new CB
This past offseason they added 2 very solid starters on defense on multi-year deals and 2 others on 1 year deals who I'd try to resign (Ryan/Fackrell). They also used a premium pick on McKinney who will hopefully make an impact once healthy. On offense they drafted Thomas. Had they used the premium pick on McKinney who we have seen yet, that could have easily been Tee Higgins or Claypool (just noting the value of the pick relative to the 2021 2nd). That's 6 starters though in 1 offseason - at least 4 of them having made a decent positive impact already.
So between their 1st/2nd round picks and their 1 or 2 bigger FA signings they could actually check off the 4 additions I mentioned above relatively easily compared to last offseason. And that's treating pretty much anyone they add from the 3rd round on like gravy, which Holmes, Crowder, Slayton and Peart, etc. have shown to be possible.
Whether they decide to keep or replace Zeitler, Tate, Solder in the offseason I don't mind so much. It will just depend on math and alternatives available. If they can get value for Zeitler now I would consider it if they think Lemieux may be part of the solution.
As a thought experiment imagining the same players who were available this past offseason were available next offseason, along with retaining the majority of the current roster, how would this team look right now adding talent like Ceedee Lamb and Jaylon Johnson from their top 2 draft picks along with a couple FA like Robbie Anderson and Robert Quinn? Plus Saquon and McKinney back from injuries.
I'd let Judge keep adding pieces like he did this past offseason and keep surrounding Jones with players who can make his job easier.
Completely agree.
If you like him that much than sign him after season
I wish I could sue you.
1--- Allen and Murray right now are better, right? You're treating Jones like it's a fact he is them. You know that "a couple of plays Jones makes this year differently" (for example - don't make the key turnover) then the Giants maybe could have won, right? I guess you only want to look at things one-way, eh?
2-- You are saying the OBJ deal looks good to you? SO he was considered an All-Pro young WR. What all-pros did we get for him in return?
3-- In regards to Collins -- what about those that knew we were going to stink in 2018? Many on here felt he was very overrated. So you choose to ignore that in that there was a clear opportunity to trade him rather than wait like DG did?
4-- Bad luck with Baker? Not a bad pick but "bad luck?" Is that you posting again Mrs. Gettleman? DG does not make bad picks, right? It's all just bad luck if his picks don't work out?
5-- SO those people who didn't like the Barkley pick from the start because the team wasn't going to win for a while anyway -along with the fear of taking a RB so high while the risk of getting worn down or hurt is high- so for those posters that accurately had grave fear of the pick due to these reasons in which they turned out to be right-- you choose to ignore their concerns and just call it "bad luck?"
6-- You think Beal was a good 3rd rd pick? I guess all those players hurt for Dallas and Philly don't matter, right? I guess the Giants were "unlucky" that they got the chance to face the Bears QB Trubisky instead of Foles, right? Still want to keep looking at things one way, eh?
7-- One play goes right for the other team and we're 0-7.
8-- I love the comment "if a couple of plays go right" excuse. You realize "if a couple of plays go wrong" then the Giants don't win their last 3 Super Bowls, right? Imagine if those "couple of plays went wrong" - then we probably wouldn't have Dave Gettleman as a GM. SO he actually has had "good luck," right? -- LOL.
Problem with OBJ trade is we signed him for $90 million/ 5 years and paid him a $20 million bonus - only to trade him 6 months later. Inept management.
Quote:
If you like Daniel Jones - who is roughly the same QBR career wise as Josh Allen/Kyler Murray - we were supposed to take Darnold, Rosen, Haskins instead remember? over span of their careers. The OBJ STILL looks like a good trade to me - Peppers ranks higher than Landon Collins IMO, Dexter Lawrence, unload headache/money.All the FA's this year are excellent, on excellent contracts. The cap space has been cleared. There's been bad luck - Baker, Saquon, Beal bailing, Lorenzo Carter, McKinney hurt. If Thomas truly is Flowers (which I don't believe) - but if he is, then that's too major a mistake. But, defense improving, should be more so next year - I like what has been done. A couple of plays go differently, and we're a .500 team. My apologies if this is redundant.
I wish I could sue you.
1--- Allen and Murray right now are better, right? You're treating Jones like it's a fact he is them. You know that "a couple of plays Jones makes this year differently" (for example - don't make the key turnover) then the Giants maybe could have won, right? I guess you only want to look at things one-way, eh?
2-- You are saying the OBJ deal looks good to you? SO he was considered an All-Pro young WR. What all-pros did we get for him in return?
3-- In regards to Collins -- what about those that knew we were going to stink in 2018? Many on here felt he was very overrated. So you choose to ignore that in that there was a clear opportunity to trade him rather than wait like DG did?
4-- Bad luck with Baker? Not a bad pick but "bad luck?" Is that you posting again Mrs. Gettleman? DG does not make bad picks, right? It's all just bad luck if his picks don't work out?
5-- SO those people who didn't like the Barkley pick from the start because the team wasn't going to win for a while anyway -along with the fear of taking a RB so high while the risk of getting worn down or hurt is high- so for those posters that accurately had grave fear of the pick due to these reasons in which they turned out to be right-- you choose to ignore their concerns and just call it "bad luck?"
6-- You think Beal was a good 3rd rd pick? I guess all those players hurt for Dallas and Philly don't matter, right? I guess the Giants were "unlucky" that they got the chance to face the Bears QB Trubisky instead of Foles, right? Still want to keep looking at things one way, eh?
7-- One play goes right for the other team and we're 0-7.
8-- I love the comment "if a couple of plays go right" excuse. You realize "if a couple of plays go wrong" then the Giants don't win their last 3 Super Bowls, right? Imagine if those "couple of plays went wrong" - then we probably wouldn't have Dave Gettleman as a GM. SO he actually has had "good luck," right? -- LOL.
I'll see you in court.
1) Murray, Allen faring better - but it's pretty close in QB talent. He could and would have been commended for Haskins, Darnold, Rosen. I believe Jones is a keeper, which is a plus for Gettleman who was skewered for taking him.
2) All-Pro, yes. Head case, also. And that's not the return on head case all pro WR's. OBJ got the contract, then crossed the line when he trashed Eli. But see Antonio Brown. Other trades on the high talent WR market- Gettleman got a substantial return for clearing a headcase, and cap room. Peppers, D. Lawrence, Xman (I believe). Potential 3 for 1 - although all need to improve.
3) Trading Collins - you don't know what was offered and Giants got a 3rd round pick in compensation. Not bad. IMO.
4) Baker's character issues - depends what was on the books. I haven't researched it - but I'm guessing that gun point robberies probably was a first for him. Yes, I'd say it's looking like Beal was a serious mistake. I didn't make the case that everything Gettleman does is magic. I do think he's competent, given the landscape that is there, where there was serious cap hell to clear.
5) Christian McCaffrey has similar skill set. Would you pass on him? Bosa might not be the same, he got hurt. Dak Prescott might not be the same - it's a physical game for all. We'll see - but Barkley has to be measured against the players we were told the Giants should have taken - that's Darnold (consensus at the time). So yeah, there's some bad luck there. But you might have a point.
6) Particularly now - no way to defend Beal pick. But then review the other GMs and point out the good drafting from the bad. It's not looking at it one way, but it's a general feel for the team.
7) Fair point - ties into your next point. Yeah, you got to win, make the plays. But, the Giants have been in it. The luck can turn. There's been defensive improvement. The line has to play better. Thomas has to pan out, although even there - Solder was supposed to at least start the season. And with cap room this year, DG did make good signings - they were sane, and they are set up to be vastly improved next year....We disagree - but hat off that you made multiple points.
Quote:
I'll see you in court.
1) Murray, Allen faring better - but it's pretty close in QB talent. He could and would have been commended for Haskins, Darnold, Rosen. I believe Jones is a keeper, which is a plus for Gettleman who was skewered for taking him.
2) All-Pro, yes. Head case, also. And that's not the return on head case all pro WR's. OBJ got the contract, then crossed the line when he trashed Eli. But see Antonio Brown. Other trades on the high talent WR market- Gettleman got a substantial return for clearing a headcase, and cap room. Peppers, D. Lawrence, Xman (I believe). Potential 3 for 1 - although all need to improve.
3) Trading Collins - you don't know what was offered and Giants got a 3rd round pick in compensation. Not bad. IMO.
4) Baker's character issues - depends what was on the books. I haven't researched it - but I'm guessing that gun point robberies probably was a first for him. Yes, I'd say it's looking like Beal was a serious mistake. I didn't make the case that everything Gettleman does is magic. I do think he's competent, given the landscape that is there, where there was serious cap hell to clear.
5) Christian McCaffrey has similar skill set. Would you pass on him? Bosa might not be the same, he got hurt. Dak Prescott might not be the same - it's a physical game for all. We'll see - but Barkley has to be measured against the players we were told the Giants should have taken - that's Darnold (consensus at the time). So yeah, there's some bad luck there. But you might have a point.
6) Particularly now - no way to defend Beal pick. But then review the other GMs and point out the good drafting from the bad. It's not looking at it one way, but it's a general feel for the team.
7) Fair point - ties into your next point. Yeah, you got to win, make the plays. But, the Giants have been in it. The luck can turn. There's been defensive improvement. The line has to play better. Thomas has to pan out, although even there - Solder was supposed to at least start the season. And with cap room this year, DG did make good signings - they were sane, and they are set up to be vastly improved next year....We disagree - but hat off that you made multiple points.
Glad this was civil. Otherwise in order to change your mind - I might have to make you an offer that you can’t refuse. By the way do you own any horses??? J/k! Just havin fun.
1--- In terms of Murray and Allen being close means nothing. Just as close games but still losing mean nothing. The very next year it could be blowouts again.
2—What you call a head case is irrelevant. IMO you are adding your own emotion as if your emotion matters. Many teams trade of get FA’s or draft “head cases.” Are you suggesting all “head cases” are busts? If not- then who cares if they are a head case as long as you get ALL-Pro value in return? He was an All_Pro talent. Not getting that in return is inexcusable.
So we can agree that we traded an ALL-Pro player and you just told me no players were received in return. And that is good? Because we know malcontents can contribute, correct? For example the Patriots get Moss, Corey Dillon. Josh Gordon, Rodney Harrison and LeGarrette Blount. Some or all of these were malcontents yet are you saying that the Patriots should be more like the Giants and avoid malcontents? Or are you suggesting that malcontents cannot improve a team even though they improved the Patriots?
So what is your point about malcontents if in fact we can see they can help teams?
3—You didn’t know what was offered for Collins either. OFC you are going to take a “not bad” outlook. But imo you are not to be believed in what is good or bad because you didn’t seem to think it was completely idiotic by the GM to not start rebuilding in year 1. Those of us that knew he was an idiot from the start can easily point to his 3 year dismal record so far. Washington has saved his butt otherwise we’d be beyond awful.
A guy as dumb as DG who thought he could win in 2018– it isn’t hard to make a logical assumption that he was stupid in keeping Collins even though he would have probably had better offers.
When you try to push for “You don’t know for sure.” You’re right but I can use that logic for nearly anything without a quantified result. For example we don’t know for sure that Reese or Shurmur would have failed this bad either, right? We can hide behind nearly anything and say, “You don’t know for sure.” “We don’t know for sure” that the Jets are going to finish in the bottom 5, do we? “We don’t know for sure” that this year’s draft won’t produce a player as productive as Lawrence Taylor was, do we? But if we use logic, we can make logical assumptions, right?
4—Baker sucked his rookie year too, didn’t he? That doesn’t count? Or are you now agreeing that he was a bad pick?
5—In regards to Beal – you previously said it was luck. So now you agree with me that DG made another mistake?
6—In regards to Barkley- imo you are looking at it all wrong. You are saying Barkley has to be measured against the players we were told the Giants should have taken. Isn’t that the point of our argument? It’s that the players we were told the Giants would have taken were projected based on the 2 clowns that are most responsible for the 1st pick in the draft? There were other options, but our 2 clowns probably only limited the choices to their flawed view. So that’s why some of us complain. It’s that their way of thinking was wrong. There should have been more options.
As far as McAffrey, why would you take him in a rebuild? In 2015 Panthers were 15-1. In 2016 they dipped to 6-10 – next year McAffrey comes and they go 11-5 only to lose their only playoff game. After this what has he done to elevate his team? And – is it “shocking” that now he’s hurt? A young RB hurt- how “shocking.” And- in fact Carolina seems to be doing just fine without him, haven’t they?
7—But the Giants being in it—in which they are in a HISTORICALLY bad conference means nothing. You bring it up as if it has meaning. You have no idea if that is going to translate next year. You are bringing up an irrelevant point and trying to assign meaning to it. The New York Jets last year were 6-2 in their last 8 games. And the same thing with the Falcons. They were 6-2 in their last 8.
So why is losing close holding any value vs examples you know from other teams in which they won - and yet they still suck the following year they sucked- why does losing close have any value vs Jets and Falcons of last year to this? I’m sure they thought as you do that their luck can turn.
The pre-injury all pro OBJ people remember fondly just doesn't exist anymore. Getting a first round pick for him was a coup even if the jury is somewhat out on whether or not Dexter Lawrence was the best pick (I think he was a good but not great pick).
The pre-injury all pro OBJ people remember fondly just doesn't exist anymore. Getting a first round pick for him was a coup even if the jury is somewhat out on whether or not Dexter Lawrence was the best pick (I think he was a good but not great pick).
I'd expect this from you eric- I just replied to your excuse making post for being close because of the Barkley injury and conveniently left off the injuries for the other teams.
SO why not continue your exaggerations here as well, right?
Fact is OBJ was an ALL-Pro. What AL_pro player did they get in return?
The point is posters such as yourself only want to look at things from one POV.