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Daniel Jones is a dual threat

Archer : 10/24/2020 6:55 pm
Daniel Jones maximum speed on the 80 yard run was 21.23 MPH
To put this in perspective this is the fastest time for a QB in the last three years. The only faster time was Jackson in 2018.
See attached Nextgen stats diagram

Tyreek Hill fastest MPH is 21.29 MPH ONLY .06 faster than Jones

Daniel Jones has 296 yards rushing and is averaging an amazing 9.6 yards per carry.

While Jones has played more games than other players, he has only rushed 31 times.

The three top running qbs;
Murray has 51 carries and 370 yards
Jackson has 50 carries and 346 yards
Jones has 31 carries and 296 yards


Jones is leading the league with tight window throws and is second making throws under duress. (the Giants lead the league in blown blocking Thomas and Fleming are at the bottom of the league.)

Due to the pressure coverage and tight window coverage.
Daniel Jones to Golden Tate 39-yard TD had just a 1.6% TD probability according to Nextgen completion probability & xYAC models


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He was fast......he lapped himself.....  
GiantBlue : 10/24/2020 7:06 pm : link
And tackled himself......


Wait.....

Kidding. Maybe he can complete the play next time.
just curious but where did you find the tight windows throws #?  
Eric on Li : 10/24/2020 7:07 pm : link
is that a next gen stat or PFF?

I don't dispute it, I think that's a really interesting stat and easily the thing I've been most impressed with from Jones. His arm strength may not be elite but his accuracy is.

In terms of the dual threat, I'd still rather not run him too much. When he went down on the long run I figured he pulled something. As much as there's a trend towards rushing QB's, Mahomes and Russell Wilson really only run sparingly other than buying time. Russell Wilsons rushing attempts the last few years have been about 50% of what they used to be at his peak. I'd rather Jones emulate those guys than Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson if it's at all possible. Lamar is quick enough to avoid a lot of big hits but Allen takes an absolute beating every game.
Daniel is going to be great  
Ralph.C : 10/24/2020 7:07 pm : link
First year with this system and coaches. The coaches are figuring out how to use him. This team is going in The right direction.
Amazing how fast you can run...  
MOOPS : 10/24/2020 7:16 pm : link
when you're running for your life.
RE: Amazing how fast you can run...  
Del Shofner : 10/24/2020 7:19 pm : link
In comment 15023486 MOOPS said:
Quote:
when you're running for your life.


haha!
I can’t wait to see him  
KDavies : 10/24/2020 7:23 pm : link
With even a league average OL and a league average receiving corps.
RE: I can’t wait to see him  
markky : 10/24/2020 7:29 pm : link
In comment 15023491 KDavies said:
Quote:
With even a league average OL and a league average receiving corps.


hopefully in my lifetime.

Jones is a plus athlete, has speed, is tough and is accurate. A lot of good qualities.
I don't think tight window throws is a good thing  
BH28 : 10/24/2020 7:34 pm : link
If you go back and look at the leaders in tight window throws, they usually are in the top 10 in interceptions.

The best QBs in the league are never in the top tier of tight window throws. Now there has been done debate of whether Jones being in the top of tight window throws is a result of receivers not getting separation or a trait of his QB style.

I personally think it's a trait of his QB style as if you look at the WR next gen stats our WRs are average in getting separation.

This leads me to believe that Jones is always going to be in the tops in tight window throws which means he'll always be prone to interceptions.
I must admit I am worried about his decision making  
Chris L. : 10/24/2020 7:37 pm : link
Holds the ball a LONG time and doesn't seem to have that instinct which all the good ones have of knowing when to run and when to pass when he gets outside the pocket. It is concerning that this was one of the big knocks on him coming out of college. Having said all that the team needs to get some better weapons around him to have a fair read. We are not getting the top pick. Ride with Jones. Improve the talent around him and lets see where this thing go.
Film from Giants practice...  
BamaBlue : 10/24/2020 7:47 pm : link
Jones practicing his scrambles...

RE: Daniel is going to be great  
SGMen : 10/24/2020 7:56 pm : link
In comment 15023482 Ralph.C said:
Quote:
First year with this system and coaches. The coaches are figuring out how to use him. This team is going in The right direction.
Crazy as this sounds, I believe in Judge & the coaches and the "core" to build around. Problem is we don't have enough "elite" core players!
Bradberry is the ONLY Giant will a shot at the probowl right now; Martinez perhaps too.

My thing during this "break" is for the coaches to figure out what is working; figure out what clearly isn't; and, get the players coached up where they need it.

I am confident Jones is the answer at QB.
We just need him to  
Giantimistic : 10/24/2020 8:28 pm : link
Be a threat to run which will help open up the running game. If we can just get above avg oline play, a healthy Barkley and Jones then the offense should fall into place.
it strikes me that a tight window  
DonQuixote : 10/24/2020 8:30 pm : link
is a property of the WR, not the QB
Jones will be the Giants QB  
chiro56 : 10/24/2020 8:49 pm : link
For a long time with multiple SB wins. Just MHO.
Jones runs so  
XBRONX : 10/24/2020 9:42 pm : link
fast he can't see himself.
RE: Jones will be the Giants QB  
cjac : 10/24/2020 10:23 pm : link
In comment 15023539 chiro56 said:
Quote:
For a long time with multiple SB wins. Just MHO.


HAHAHAHAHAHA.

OMG that was great.
That's all fine and well but  
Mdgiantsfan : 10/24/2020 11:18 pm : link
...what matters most is the Win/Loss record. I can enjoy his explosiveness and skills so much more once we start winning games.
He's fast.  
TC : 10/24/2020 11:37 pm : link
Athletic, had the best mechanics of any QB in the draft, can make all the throws and is fearless.

He's doesn't have a lot of skill position talent around him compared to other comparably talented QB's, and the blocking he gets has usually been awful.

BUT . . . .

I am growing concerned. Despite his obvious talent, he doesn't seem to have a feel for the game he's in, something the really good QB's all have. And it still looks like it is taking him much too long to go through his reads. Sometimes QB's that fit that description wind up being career long journeymen.

But he's only in his 2nd year, and he's already in ANOTHER new offensive system, so I know that could change, and it'll all come together for him.

But I am growing concerned.
RE: it strikes me that a tight window  
BH28 : 10/25/2020 12:04 am : link
In comment 15023531 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
is a property of the WR, not the QB


Next gen stats track WR separation as a category so you can see the average separation our WRs get compared to the rest of the league.

Below average separation would suggest the tight window throws are a product of poor WRs. If WR separation is average or better, to me that is an indication of a QBs decision making. More throws in tight windows would seem to be prone to more interceptions unless the accuracy is spot on.
Right now?  
trueblueinpw : 10/25/2020 1:37 am : link
He’s a threat to throw a pick and fumble. Let’s not put him in Canton just yet.
It really wasn't a matter of how fast he ran  
Poktown Pete : 10/25/2020 6:45 am : link
The way the play unfolded, the defense parted for him like the Red Sea. It was miraculous. He didn't really need to outrun defenders from what I could see, there was no one near him. All he had to do was stay on his feet and keep moving.

The fact that he stumbled means, at least to me is that he can't really run as fast as you want to give him credit for.
Jones should now be called  
uther99 : 10/25/2020 6:57 am : link
D Train
He needs a reliable  
Simms11 : 10/25/2020 8:04 am : link
TE and another #1 receiver. I also think Garrett needs to get him throwing to the RBs more. Get the ball to them in space and let them work. Once this Oline comes together, I think the offense can be pretty solid as well.
RE: He needs a reliable  
Jay on the Island : 10/25/2020 9:48 am : link
In comment 15023657 Simms11 said:
Quote:
TE and another #1 receiver. I also think Garrett needs to get him throwing to the RBs more. Get the ball to them in space and let them work. Once this Oline comes together, I think the offense can be pretty solid as well.

Yes he certainly does. The Giants need to add a starting WR, another WR for depth preferably one that can stretch the field, a TE, and a backup RB.

Free agency will be interesting this season. If the cap goes down as expected many teams will be scrambling just to get under the cap. This will force them to sit out free agency.

I would like to see the Giants attempt to add a WR in FA. My main targets would be Will Fuller, Kenny Golladay, or Corey Davis. I doubt Golladay hits the market but if he does then he would look great opposite Slayton.
RE: I don't think tight window throws is a good thing  
KeoweeFan : 10/25/2020 10:31 am : link
In comment 15023500 BH28 said:
Quote:
If you go back and look at the leaders in tight window throws, they usually are in the top 10 in interceptions.

The best QBs in the league are never in the top tier of tight window throws. Now there has been done debate of whether Jones being in the top of tight window throws is a result of receivers not getting separation or a trait of his QB style.

I personally think it's a trait of his QB style as if you look at the WR next gen stats our WRs are average in getting separation.

This leads me to believe that Jones is always going to be in the tops in tight window throws which means he'll always be prone to interceptions.


Tight window throws DO work - IF you have the horses at WR and a defense you can count on to get the ball back. Great example was Watson at Clemson; Swinney encouraged the 50 - 50 throws because he had the WRs to win contested balls and Venables' D to get the ball back.

Current NYG WR and D - not so much.
tight window throws  
Archer : 10/25/2020 12:05 pm : link
Completion of tight window throws is a positive.

Both Nextgen and PFF keep stats for separation and pressure.

The Giants WRs average about 2yds of separation which is among the worst in the league

Their lack of separation in conjunction with lack of time,( Giants lead the league in blown blocks and pressure) contribute to the necessity to make TWTs

With better receivers and better protection Jones will not have to make TWTs. This is important as historically it is significantly less probable to complete TWTs.

Some additional stats
AGG% Aggressiveness tracks the amount of passing attempts a quarterback makes that are into tight coverage, where there is a defender within 1 yard or less of the receiver at the time of completion or incompletion. (AGG is shown as a % of attempts into tight windows over all passing attempts ) Daniel Jones 17.7% (top 7)

Jones is showing improvement each week.
This past week his QB Rating was 91.9 which is up significantly from 71 for the season.

This rating does not include his running stats.

Finally see attached chart showing Jones effectiveness throwing to various areas of the field
In looking at the chart what jumps out is that contrary to common perception Jones is far more effective throwing long than the short
His ratings from deep left to deep right are 101.9,158.3 and 104.3
His middle intermediate throws are 114.9
His short throws are very poor (low of 7.5 to 82.9)

This begs the question why aren't the Giants throwing downfield more. Jones is a far better deep thrower than short.


It is not surprising that Jones best rated days are the days he throws long.
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He's a nice player, but he's not special  
Go Terps : 10/25/2020 12:19 pm : link
He's not someone you go past the rookie contract with. Starting next year I'd make it known he's available in trade. College is producing lots of guys of similar quality.
Nice player  
Archer : 10/25/2020 12:53 pm : link
I don’t think that you can close the book on Daniel Jones
This is a new offense . It takes a while for a qb much less a second year player to be comfortable in the system

There is hope that the OL will improve, the running game be more efficient, and that the receivers will get better separation
In addition I hope that Garrett takes the training wheels off and let’s Jones throw downfield more


I expect that we will see steady improvement from Jones
Jones has all the physical attributes to succeed

I believe that those who think lowly of Jones will be surprised by his improvement
He has everything  
BigBlueJ : 10/25/2020 1:06 pm : link
you want in a Starting QB. Can he, and more importantly, the organization pull it all together.
RE: He has everything  
Producer : 10/25/2020 1:41 pm : link
In comment 15023903 BigBlueJ said:
Quote:
you want in a Starting QB. Can he, and more importantly, the organization pull it all together.


I suggest you watch some other teams in the NFL besides the Giants. Right now, Jones is one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL.
With the game  
PaulN : 10/25/2020 1:58 pm : link
On the line, Jones stinks. That is what to look for when looking ahead. Eli in his second year was way better then Jones in this category, even with a lousy team this always becomes evident, Jones is not going to be a great QB and in the NFL today there are too many great QB's to have a mediocre one. He does not deliver the ball to the right player at the right time enough,vote team stinks, but sorry to say Jones is not helping at all.
We need a big, physical receiver on the outside, one that can....  
Britt in VA : 10/25/2020 2:02 pm : link
out physical the other guy on 50/50 balls. Get that, and a strong blocking TE that can catch and we'll be in business.

Sick of all the little dudes we put out there at WR. And at TE, Engram might as well be a wide receiver, although I don't want him on this team at all anymore.
Joe Burrow  
PaulN : 10/25/2020 2:30 pm : link
He has no better a team and this is his first year, he is going to be a great QB, compare hom with Jones, throw out the stats, just watch the game and a trained and unbiased eye can see a huge difference between the two young QB's.
Jones  
PaulN : 10/25/2020 3:08 pm : link
Is in the Darnold level, just behind Mayfield even. Tank the season and get the generational talent at QB. I don't even want to hear anything else. Anything else is just plain stupid. Trade as many players that make sense as possible, then if they are smart enough to get the top pick, trade Jones and get the most you can for him. This QB is the exception to every rule.
Tank for the  
PaulN : 10/25/2020 3:13 pm : link
Generational talent that will make te Giants fun for the heat 15 years.
RE: Joe Burrow  
Producer : 10/25/2020 3:36 pm : link
In comment 15024013 PaulN said:
Quote:
He has no better a team and this is his first year, he is going to be a great QB, compare hom with Jones, throw out the stats, just watch the game and a trained and unbiased eye can see a huge difference between the two young QB's.


there are not too many people that would take Jones over Burrow, and most of them post on this message board.
I would think about calling New England  
Go Terps : 10/25/2020 6:31 pm : link
Cam Newton looks non-competitive. Belichick might prefer Trading a second rounder for Jones to drafting a guy.
RE: I would think about calling New England  
Producer : 10/25/2020 6:32 pm : link
In comment 15024331 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Cam Newton looks non-competitive. Belichick might prefer Trading a second rounder for Jones to drafting a guy.


what makes you think Bill wants Jones?
RE: RE: I would think about calling New England  
Go Terps : 10/25/2020 6:41 pm : link
In comment 15024332 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15024331 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Cam Newton looks non-competitive. Belichick might prefer Trading a second rounder for Jones to drafting a guy.



what makes you think Bill wants Jones?


I don't know that he would, but I'd ask. We aren't going to be competing for anything real during the remainder of Jones's rookie deal, and he isn't likely to be worth a second contract. This is the kind of sunk cost resource allocation exercise that Gettleman repeatedly fails.
Terps..  
Sean : 10/25/2020 6:47 pm : link
The other night you stated that the arrow was pointing up, was that limited to Judge only?

Regarding Jones, I still feel he isn’t worth a 2nd contract. But, I do think his running ability plus Barkley should present a challenge to opposing defenses if utilized correctly. I just don’t see Garrett being able to do that.
RE: Terps..  
Go Terps : 10/25/2020 6:51 pm : link
In comment 15024348 Sean said:
Quote:
The other night you stated that the arrow was pointing up, was that limited to Judge only?

Regarding Jones, I still feel he isn’t worth a 2nd contract. But, I do think his running ability plus Barkley should present a challenge to opposing defenses if utilized correctly. I just don’t see Garrett being able to do that.


Yeah, Judge only.
And if you watch Herbert,  
Go Terps : 10/25/2020 6:52 pm : link
as a passer there is a big gulf there. Oregon for a really bad job using this kid.
RE: And if you watch Herbert,  
Producer : 10/25/2020 6:59 pm : link
In comment 15024356 Go Terps said:
Quote:
as a passer there is a big gulf there. Oregon for a really bad job using this kid.


Herbert is having a phenomenal game today..
Oops  
Go Terps : 10/25/2020 7:00 pm : link
Meant Oregon did a bad job using Herbert. He didn't look like this in college.
RE: Oops  
Producer : 10/25/2020 7:06 pm : link
In comment 15024366 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Meant Oregon did a bad job using Herbert. He didn't look like this in college.


I think most objective observers now would admit that the Giants should have waited on QB until the 2020 draft.
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