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Sy'56's Giants-Eagles Game Review Now Available

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/25/2020 10:21 am
FYI...


Game Review: Philadelphia Eagles 22 – New York Giants 21 - ( New Window )
Thanks Sy  
Chris684 : 10/25/2020 10:56 am : link
Just a crushing night and I’m still not over it. I won’t be watching any games today.

This one is up there with the Westbrook and Jackson punt returns and whatever other Eagles disasters there have been.
Thanks for the review Sy  
g-baby : 10/25/2020 10:58 am : link
Totally with you on Peppers and his football sense. I actually thought our most consistent safety play was when Colbert started in place of Peppers against Dallas.

I think Peppers will be most effective when he has a clearly defined, carved out role. Asking him to command the back end of a defense is too much. Ideally we would be healthy and deep enough to allow Peppers to play more around the LOS, where he is pretty effective. We also know he is good with the ball in his hand (those fair catches were brutal bc he had room). Why not try to work him in on offense at all?

Re: Engram -- while i agree he is big and fast, i don't see the "athleticism" per se. I think he might have a tic where he needs to have both feet off the ground/jump to catch the ball, which may very well be contributing to the drops. He's god awful running the ball (please eliminate that sweep/pop-pass from the playbook) and is only good after the catch when he has room to use straight line speed -- i can't remember the last guy he made miss or ran over.

Maybe it's a mental thing, but I'm with you Sy -- if you can't catch the ball, you can't stay on the field.

A few other comments:

-Really enjoying Gates's progress this year. Also love the attitude he brings that hopefully will become the whole OL's identity

-Thomas's struggles are real. I would not want to bench the 4th overall pick, but i think we have to consider it given Thomas's performance is sometimes single-handedly derailing the offense. Have to hope this 10-day "mini-bye" gives him a chance to get his head right and turn things around

-DL was getting blown off the LOS too often in this game. Not what you want when Devante Downs is one of your starting LBs. Tae Crowder can't get healthy soon enough.
There’s an error I’m afraid;  
Angel Eyes : 10/25/2020 11:09 am : link
Dexter Lawrence had a sack, not B.J. Hill.
Thanks Sy.  
section125 : 10/25/2020 11:20 am : link
Spot on as usual. I really thought they were going to win after that marvelous drive in the 4th.

Yes, Ryan Lewis has cost them two wins, speaking of football IQ or lack thereof.
RE: There’s an error I’m afraid;  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/25/2020 11:36 am : link
In comment 15023808 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
Dexter Lawrence had a sack, not B.J. Hill.


As Sy pointed out, Hill's sack was wiped out by a penalty.
RE: There’s an error I’m afraid;  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/25/2020 11:38 am : link
In comment 15023808 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
Dexter Lawrence had a sack, not B.J. Hill.


But you are correct, Lawrence also had a sack. I added that.
I just don’t get why they aren’t better against the run  
BillT : 10/25/2020 11:41 am : link
This DL with Martinez and Fackrell and others should be tough to run against. They aren’t. Kills me the one really solid unit we have is failing at what they should be best at.
RE: I just don’t get why they aren’t better against the run  
section125 : 10/25/2020 11:53 am : link
In comment 15023834 BillT said:
Quote:
This DL with Martinez and Fackrell and others should be tough to run against. They aren’t. Kills me the one really solid unit we have is failing at what they should be best at.


They generally are good against the run. What ever the Eagles did or whatever defense Graham put the Giants in (as Sy mentioned) made them less effective. I also think they did not tackle exceptionally well. Quite a few missed at the point of contact and in the backfield.
RE: I just don’t get why they aren’t better against the run  
M.S. : 10/25/2020 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15023834 BillT said:
Quote:
This DL with Martinez and Fackrell and others should be tough to run against. They aren’t. Kills me the one really solid unit we have is failing at what they should be best at.

I believe the run defense breaks down because of time of possession. We can't get off the field on third down because we can't rush the passer. Then the defense just gets blown. This defense -- regardless of the stats -- is highly flawed, with no real bona fide pass rusher on the roster.
RE: I just don’t get why they aren’t better against the run  
widmerseyebrow : 10/25/2020 12:08 pm : link
In comment 15023834 BillT said:
Quote:
This DL with Martinez and Fackrell and others should be tough to run against. They aren’t. Kills me the one really solid unit we have is failing at what they should be best at.


I have had this observation as well. We're pretty good against the run, but hardly dominating considering how much we've invested into the position. Through blue tinted glasses you'll find positive things to say about Lawrence, Williams, and Tomlinson's (production and/or potential), but I haven't seen enough to break the bank to keep the band together.
Not going to lie...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/25/2020 12:23 pm : link
Somewhat concerning that Thomas appears on the duds list a lot...
RE: Not going to lie...  
SirLoinOfBeef : 10/25/2020 12:32 pm : link
In comment 15023861 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Somewhat concerning that Thomas appears on the duds list a lot...


I'd say borderline alarming. Right now he's 2019 Nate Solder bad. If he can recover from getting beat on inside moves, well...

Should have drafted Wiills or Becton. Can't blow that pick with as many Tackles that were in that draft.
RE: RE: Not going to lie...  
section125 : 10/25/2020 12:52 pm : link
In comment 15023873 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
In comment 15023861 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Somewhat concerning that Thomas appears on the duds list a lot...



I'd say borderline alarming. Right now he's 2019 Nate Solder bad. If he can recover from getting beat on inside moves, well...

Should have drafted Wiills or Becton. Can't blow that pick with as many Tackles that were in that draft.


There is a 12 season difference between Solder an Thomas. Yes it is alarming, cannot deny that. But 21 years old. Stellar in college. Cannot guarantee he will break out of it, but I'm not giving up, yet.
About Thomas  
XBRONX : 10/25/2020 12:55 pm : link
I don't know if it was just coach speak but Judge said in camp, Thomas was improving everyday. We are now past week six, anybody see any improvement?
RE: About Thomas  
Angel Eyes : 10/25/2020 1:00 pm : link
In comment 15023894 XBRONX said:
Quote:
I don't know if it was just coach speak but Judge said in camp, Thomas was improving everyday. We are now past week six, anybody see any improvement?

Not on my end.
Does Thomas take to coaching??  
Rick in Dallas : 10/25/2020 1:04 pm : link
Big question for me. I sure Columbo and his coaches are working overtime on Thomas technique but I see no improvement. Since the first game he is making the same technique errors. His lack of a strong hand punch is just alarming to me. His setup is awful.
I went back and re-read Frank Coyle’s write up on Thomas and did not see these basic technique flaws mentioned. Don’t know what to say happened to this kid. Maybe just the speed of the NFL game.
It's interesting to see how different certain takes can be  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/25/2020 1:26 pm : link
Like with Peppers, Sy thinks he played a poor game, and Sonic Youth started a thread criticizing him too.

But lots of posters said he played a great game, giving up the TD wasn't his fault, etc.

I am guessing that lots of fans saw that Peppers got a sack and then assumed he had a good game without looking at much else. For example not turning his head in his coverage of Scott.
RE: It's interesting to see how different certain takes can be  
section125 : 10/25/2020 3:03 pm : link
In comment 15023929 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
Like with Peppers, Sy thinks he played a poor game, and Sonic Youth started a thread criticizing him too.

But lots of posters said he played a great game, giving up the TD wasn't his fault, etc.

I am guessing that lots of fans saw that Peppers got a sack and then assumed he had a good game without looking at much else. For example not turning his head in his coverage of Scott.


Peppers was making plays and in the QBs face a lot. I thought he played well until the final play. Yes, he absolutely screwed up the Boston TD catch. All the DBs, including Bradberry were a little weak. Ryan Lewis was the worst with Harper right behind. Peppers' sin was giving up the last big play which was glaring and fatal.
I find the focus on the DJ  
ColHowPepper : 10/25/2020 4:05 pm : link
pass to EE that bounced off his hands (whoa! bounced off EE's hands, is that possible?) resulting in the pick that Jones fired it hard and--early--misplaced because, Sy' analyzes, he anticipated pressure that wasn't that imminent, i.e., it was in his head. Goodness, Jones has faced nothing but pressure in his face since he got here, and it doesn't get better. Many here say he doesn't react to pressure soon enough and holds the ball too long, but now getting rid of it a hair too early is wrong. He is pavlovian accustomed by now to be in duress, fast, snap after snap.

QBs thrive on rhythm and predicability, rhythm, getting feet set, releasing in rhythm, to a receiver--maybe??--with separation. How many times does it play out that way?

And, EE, the irony here is that Sy' loved, loved, Claypool in this draft, we could have had him (2nd), the Giants could. A stellar call and assessment. And Sy's NFL comp for Claypool was none other than EE. The results couldn't be more different.
RE: Does Thomas take to coaching??  
Greg from LI : 10/25/2020 4:19 pm : link
In comment 15023901 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
I sure Columbo and his coaches are working overtime on Thomas technique but I see no improvement.


Who knows if Columbo is actually as good as people here think he is? He was only the assistant OL coach when the Cowboys OL was built. He inherited a high performing unit.
Coaches have a tendency to get all the credit for their unit's success  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/25/2020 4:28 pm : link
Its easy for a position coach to look good when he's coaching a unit full of first and second round talent. Those cowboys linemen were good right out of the gate. You can definitely debate how much they needed to be "coached up".

Not saying Columbo should be questioned yet.
I'm not questioning him  
Greg from LI : 10/25/2020 4:37 pm : link
I do think people are going overboard in making assumptions that he's an ace OL coach, though
interesting comment by Sy  
bc4life : 10/25/2020 4:41 pm : link
re: smart players
Columbo doing a good job with Gates  
Rick in Dallas : 10/25/2020 4:48 pm : link
Just saying. We will definitely find out with all these young OL.
Engram  
stretch234 : 10/25/2020 5:18 pm : link
Never dropped passes in college until the Giants. OBJ never dropped passes until the Giants. Shocked never dropped passes until the Giants

He is frustrating as hell but he is a weapon, on a team that has few. We already see what slow with hands produce - it is called Tate
Gates is now my favorite player on the roster  
JerseyCityJoe : 10/25/2020 5:26 pm : link
Good god, how pathetic is that.
RE: It's interesting to see how different certain takes can be  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/25/2020 5:38 pm : link
In comment 15023929 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
Like with Peppers, Sy thinks he played a poor game, and Sonic Youth started a thread criticizing him too.

But lots of posters said he played a great game, giving up the TD wasn't his fault, etc.

I am guessing that lots of fans saw that Peppers got a sack and then assumed he had a good game without looking at much else. For example not turning his head in his coverage of Scott.


A big factor of this is that fans who only watch the TV don't actually have any idea of how well defensive backs play.

All-22 camera angle shows the whole field and makes it a lot easier to see the whole game play out. The broadcast angle doesn't show you anything.
Tate had another nice play  
Johnny5 : 10/25/2020 5:53 pm : link
A catch down the sidelines, he was out of bounds but was absolutely mugged, still caught the ball, and got the flag for PI.
RE: Gates is now my favorite player on the roster  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/25/2020 6:35 pm : link
In comment 15024257 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:
Good god, how pathetic is that.


That day when you read that Nick Gates is your favorite team’s best offensive lineman is a rough one.
I won't  
Morehead79 : 10/25/2020 9:51 pm : link
claim to know as much about football as Sy....But I've been watching the game for 45 years and have never- and I mean NEVER- seen a QB get blamed for a pick because he "threw the ball too hard."
RE: I won't  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/25/2020 10:21 pm : link
In comment 15024542 Morehead79 said:
Quote:
claim to know as much about football as Sy....But I've been watching the game for 45 years and have never- and I mean NEVER- seen a QB get blamed for a pick because he "threw the ball too hard."


I've watched football almost as long as you and it is certainly a "thing" to throw the football too hard on certain routes/types of throws.
Not a perfect pass  
Thegratefulhead : 10/25/2020 10:21 pm : link
Thank you, said the same exact thing. Engram was wide open. Only thing he shouldn't do is over throw it. Engram has beaten the defender so badly that if the ball is underthrown the DB will run through Engram for PI.
RE: RE: I won't  
Thegratefulhead : 10/25/2020 10:23 pm : link
In comment 15024577 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15024542 Morehead79 said:


Quote:


claim to know as much about football as Sy....But I've been watching the game for 45 years and have never- and I mean NEVER- seen a QB get blamed for a pick because he "threw the ball too hard."



I've watched football almost as long as you and it is certainly a "thing" to throw the football too hard on certain routes/types of throws.
Agree Eric. I can play the position and have thrown the ball too hard many times
Who would have guessed on...  
bw in dc : 10/25/2020 10:25 pm : link
October 25th, Nick Gates would be praised as our best olineman.

The Peppers criticism on the game winner to Scott is overblown. How about giving credit to Wentz for a sublime pass in the clutch to a tough, undersized back...
Excellent evaluation, Sy  
CJ in AZ : 10/25/2020 10:28 pm : link
Really good analysis of so many components of the Giants' ability to make it close and then consistently find different ways to lose involving many different players on both offense and defense (and even special teams).

D.J. is trying to do too much, leading to some of his mistakes IMO.

Andrew Thomas is a VERY intelligent 21 year old OT, which is one of the reasons he was the pick with the 4th overall choice. That intelligence may be working against him with the media blitz attacking him as a poor draft choice. Maybe paralysis by analysis? Too soon to be so negative about him.

We need to send the mistake-prone in pressure situations and otherwise flawed players down the road now or soon: no doubt Coach Judge has his list already made out on this.

Who gets traded (and who we try to trade with no takers) will be very telling about the coaches and GM evaluation. I hope they read Sy's article, but I bet they don't need to in order to come to the same conclusions.
RE: I won't  
Sy'56 : 10/26/2020 6:43 am : link
In comment 15024542 Morehead79 said:
Quote:
claim to know as much about football as Sy....But I've been watching the game for 45 years and have never- and I mean NEVER- seen a QB get blamed for a pick because he "threw the ball too hard."


I spoke with a former NFL QB about that particular play. It was the first thing that came out of his mouth.
Evaluations on Defensive Tackle play  
LBH15 : 10/26/2020 7:24 am : link
seem to be coming back to reality. The group is overrated on BBI and should be consistently winning at point of attack, and they don't. Even against weaker, injured competition.

Sounds great to want to keep some of your better players, but poor roster management to fill up defensive-roster with overpriced, overvalued DTs that don't have pass rush skills.

And if you think they do, where were they in the last 5 minutes of that game?
Way too early for the vitriol towards Thomas by some here.  
Victor in CT : 10/26/2020 7:30 am : link
s for Engram, I think we've seen enough o realize he'll be just a tease. That ball has to be caught. And then the narrative is about Daniel Jones having his coming out party beating Philly on the road.
Sy  
ryanmkeane : 10/26/2020 9:19 am : link
have you seen enough from Gates to think he can be a long term answer (even if his ceiling is ‘adequate center’)?
RE: RE: I won't  
JB_in_DC : 10/26/2020 9:40 am : link
In comment 15024761 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15024542 Morehead79 said:


Quote:


claim to know as much about football as Sy....But I've been watching the game for 45 years and have never- and I mean NEVER- seen a QB get blamed for a pick because he "threw the ball too hard."



I spoke with a former NFL QB about that particular play. It was the first thing that came out of his mouth.


Boomer Esiason was saying similar on WFAN - he put it on DJ.
the throw from DJ  
ryanmkeane : 10/26/2020 9:42 am : link
definitely had extra gas on it. Either way, you still gotta catch it.
RE: RE: RE: I won't  
Gruber : 10/26/2020 10:42 am : link
In comment 15024887 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
In comment 15024761 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 15024542 Morehead79 said:


Quote:


claim to know as much about football as Sy....But I've been watching the game for 45 years and have never- and I mean NEVER- seen a QB get blamed for a pick because he "threw the ball too hard."



I spoke with a former NFL QB about that particular play. It was the first thing that came out of his mouth.



Boomer Esiason was saying similar on WFAN - he put it on DJ.


I haven't been watching football for 45 years, but I can use common sense to tell me that you can throw a ball too hard over a short distance. DJ put too much juice on it. Just watch the tape. Anyone who can't see that, I'd be worried about other assessments they might make about players and coaches.
I love how blame needs to be binary  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/26/2020 10:45 am : link
That pick was on both of them. DJ got fooled and pulled the trigger too fast, and Engram needs to catch that. Now if that defense was what DJ thought it was, the ball drops to the ground at worst. When you fire balls and the other teams drops 7 lots of bodies to clean up.

What is concerning about that play is that it highlights DJs weakness of trusting his pre snap reads too much. On the other hand I’m thinking this team is such trash that he needs to be practically perfect to put up a good stat line. How many negative plays did he have? It’s seems like the few he has results in turnovers because this team just sucks.
to be clear, I was referring to the 4th quarter play  
Victor in CT : 10/26/2020 10:47 am : link
the other one was hot but it was a bang bang play
Ridiculously tough catches are routine in the NFL.  
mittenedman : 10/26/2020 11:59 am : link
The norm. Very rarely do you get to catch a perfectly thrown softball. The ball is either getting zipped in, is slightly off target and/or the defender is draped all over you committing PI. Usually a combination of all 3.

Josh Allen's receivers in BUF have to catch his lasers all day. You HAVE TO catch anything that hits you in the hands. Engram is not an NFL receiver until he can make the tough catch and up to this point in his career, he can't. They do not even bother throwing him fades because he is so bad on the 50/50 stuff.
RE: Ridiculously tough catches are routine in the NFL.  
Victor in CT : 10/26/2020 12:17 pm : link
In comment 15025125 mittenedman said:
Quote:
The norm. Very rarely do you get to catch a perfectly thrown softball. The ball is either getting zipped in, is slightly off target and/or the defender is draped all over you committing PI. Usually a combination of all 3.

Josh Allen's receivers in BUF have to catch his lasers all day. You HAVE TO catch anything that hits you in the hands. Engram is not an NFL receiver until he can make the tough catch and up to this point in his career, he can't. They do not even bother throwing him fades because he is so bad on the 50/50 stuff.


Makes you wonder how John Elway ever survived in this league. Or Bert Jones, Terry Bradshaw. And No Spider Man gloves for the WRs back then
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