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We've had a top-12 pick in several of the last few drafts

Anakim : 10/25/2020 9:41 pm
We've had a top-12 pick in: 2014, 2015, 2016, 2018, 2019 (with two other first round picks) and 2020. And bear in mind, that also means we had high picks in the other rounds.


And we're still a complete dumpster fire. This team lacks talent from top to bottom. It's an old adage that you build through the draft. Well, the last two architects, Jerry Reese and Dave Gettleman, have destroyed this team through the Draft.



This can't continue. It's completely unacceptable and is a major reason why we're statistically the worst team in the NFL since 2017 (13-42). In fact, the next losingest team, the Jets, have 3 more wins than us during that same time period.


Enough is enough.
It is a complete organizational  
MtDizzle : 10/25/2020 9:43 pm : link
Failure! It don’t matter who coaches or plays for this team. It’ll only mask the real issues. It stinks from the head on down.
So what needs to be done?  
Angel Eyes : 10/25/2020 9:46 pm : link
I'd say what do we do, but we as fans have no power.

RE: So what needs to be done?  
Anakim : 10/25/2020 9:48 pm : link
In comment 15024534 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
I'd say what do we do, but we as fans have no power.


Make it clear that this organization needs a complete overhaul. I think we all agree that Gettleman has to go. But they also need to shake up the scouting department (and maybe that means Chris Mara. I don't know. I think any of us do).

They took a good step with hiring an outsider as head coach. Whether Joe Judge pans out or not, I don't know. But it's good that they decided to bring in new blood. Now the same has to be done for the front office.
Yeah  
pjcas18 : 10/25/2020 9:49 pm : link
but the Giants should trade any of the players on the team right now who have any value and get more draft picks. And not even early round picks, the Giants need 6th and 7th round picks.

because you build through the draft.
RE: Yeah  
Angel Eyes : 10/25/2020 9:50 pm : link
In comment 15024539 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but the Giants should trade any of the players on the team right now who have any value and get more draft picks. And not even early round picks, the Giants need 6th and 7th round picks.

because you build through the draft.

Why would you? Trade away your best players, you have nothing to build on.
This is why the “tanking” argument is so dumb..  
Sean : 10/25/2020 9:51 pm : link
It doesn’t matter where a team picks, it matters WHO they pick. Clearly, high valued draft picks have done nothing for this franchise because they still get it wrong.
RE: RE: Yeah  
pjcas18 : 10/25/2020 9:53 pm : link
In comment 15024541 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15024539 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


but the Giants should trade any of the players on the team right now who have any value and get more draft picks. And not even early round picks, the Giants need 6th and 7th round picks.

because you build through the draft.


Why would you? Trade away your best players, you have nothing to build on.



I was being sarcastic.
High value draft picks , you say ?  
Manny in CA : 10/25/2020 9:56 pm : link

Like picking the 20th best player in the draft (Thomas) at 4th over-all. Is that what you mean ?
I think Gettleman blew all 5 of his first rounders  
Go Terps : 10/25/2020 9:57 pm : link
We didn't get an elite player out of any of those, and we passed on many.

There's a parallel universe where the Giants have Bradley Chubb, Josh Allen (JAX), AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, and Justin Herbert.

Insert self-immolation gif here.
RE: This is why the “tanking” argument is so dumb..  
GiantEgo : 10/25/2020 10:00 pm : link
In comment 15024543 Sean said:
Quote:
It doesn’t matter where a team picks, it matters WHO they pick. Clearly, high valued draft picks have done nothing for this franchise because they still get it wrong.


Yes! Too much concern about draft position, It's all about who does the picking! A team like the Steelers regularly picks in the bottom half of the draft and yet regularly comes up with excellent players.
RE: I think Gettleman blew all 5 of his first rounders  
bw in dc : 10/25/2020 10:05 pm : link
In comment 15024549 Go Terps said:
Quote:
We didn't get an elite player out of any of those, and we passed on many.

There's a parallel universe where the Giants have Bradley Chubb, Josh Allen (JAX), AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, and Justin Herbert.

Insert self-immolation gif here.


Just FYI...Metcalf was a second rounder.

But the point still stands and there are probably another dozen players that work.
RE: Yeah  
Mike from Ohio : 10/25/2020 10:05 pm : link
In comment 15024539 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but the Giants should trade any of the players on the team right now who have any value and get more draft picks. And not even early round picks, the Giants need 6th and 7th round picks.

because you build through the draft.


It sounds better when you call it draft capital. Draft picks sounds like a lottery. Draft capital? That’s something you INVEST.
bw  
Go Terps : 10/25/2020 10:07 pm : link
I know...he could have been one of our three first rounders.

Josh Allen
AJ Brown
DK Metcalf

I know it's hindsight, but when you miss as much as this front office has with premium picks it isn't an accident.
Dave Gettleman is a Loser!  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 10/25/2020 10:15 pm : link
And we have become a pitiful franchise
RE: I think Gettleman blew all 5 of his first rounders  
WillVAB : 10/25/2020 10:23 pm : link
In comment 15024549 Go Terps said:
Quote:
We didn't get an elite player out of any of those, and we passed on many.

There's a parallel universe where the Giants have Bradley Chubb, Josh Allen (JAX), AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, and Justin Herbert.

Insert self-immolation gif here.


Orlando Brown in the 3rd would’ve made sense for a team with pretty much nothing along the OL.

3 years in with a trash OL and nothing in the pass rush dept is inexcusable.
Both GMs forgot how to build winners.  
Tom in NY : 10/25/2020 10:23 pm : link
They went for skill players, or specific position players when the Oline and Defense had aged out. This really goes all the way back to 2012 draft and really did not change appreciably until the last 2 years.

Until they build a foundation on both lines and Edge rusher(s) we will continually be outmatched against quality teams.
I still have a lot of hope for Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas  
PatersonPlank : 10/25/2020 10:25 pm : link
Way to early to give up. I honestly think they will all be top players. Throw in lower picks Peart, Slayton, Hernandez, and hopefully McKinney too.
Tell me  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 10/25/2020 10:30 pm : link
So what the f*ck was the plan at WR? So many holes on this roster it’s disgusting, and DG’s hubris is an abomination.
Im convinced  
JoeyBigBlue : 10/25/2020 10:33 pm : link
That we are going through a bad period in the franchise’s history. It’s damn near impossible to miss on so many picks when you are drafting this high. Hopefully we come out of this sooner then later.
RE: I still have a lot of hope for Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas  
Producer : 10/25/2020 10:38 pm : link
In comment 15024583 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Way to early to give up. I honestly think they will all be top players. Throw in lower picks Peart, Slayton, Hernandez, and hopefully McKinney too.


you really think Jones is going to be a top player? Really?

RE: RE: I still have a lot of hope for Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas  
PatersonPlank : 10/25/2020 10:39 pm : link
In comment 15024594 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15024583 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


Way to early to give up. I honestly think they will all be top players. Throw in lower picks Peart, Slayton, Hernandez, and hopefully McKinney too.



you really think Jones is going to be a top player? Really?


Yes really
RE: RE: RE: I still have a lot of hope for Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas  
Producer : 10/25/2020 10:40 pm : link
In comment 15024595 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 15024594 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15024583 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


Way to early to give up. I honestly think they will all be top players. Throw in lower picks Peart, Slayton, Hernandez, and hopefully McKinney too.



you really think Jones is going to be a top player? Really?




Yes really


how long do you think we have to wait? because QBs are popping in their first and second years these days.
RE: RE: RE: I still have a lot of hope for Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas  
PatersonPlank : 10/25/2020 10:41 pm : link
In comment 15024595 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 15024594 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15024583 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


Way to early to give up. I honestly think they will all be top players. Throw in lower picks Peart, Slayton, Hernandez, and hopefully McKinney too.



you really think Jones is going to be a top player? Really?




Yes really


An I also honestly think it is way too earlier to give up on a promising QB too (even if I'm wrong). He's only in year 2, on a bad team.
Just saw on Twitter that Simmons is barely playing for Arizona..  
Sean : 10/25/2020 10:43 pm : link
I guess he’s been struggling?
RE: Just saw on Twitter that Simmons is barely playing for Arizona..  
PatersonPlank : 10/25/2020 10:50 pm : link
In comment 15024600 Sean said:
Quote:
I guess he’s been struggling?


Thought he was another "generational" talent who was going to change the NFL?
RE: RE: RE: RE: I still have a lot of hope for Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas  
Producer : 10/25/2020 10:50 pm : link
In comment 15024599 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 15024595 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 15024594 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15024583 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


Way to early to give up. I honestly think they will all be top players. Throw in lower picks Peart, Slayton, Hernandez, and hopefully McKinney too.



you really think Jones is going to be a top player? Really?




Yes really



An I also honestly think it is way too earlier to give up on a promising QB too (even if I'm wrong). He's only in year 2, on a bad team.


I think he has to show it this season. I hope you;re right and he comes around by the end of the year. I look at Herbert and Kyler and think, that's the kind of talent and production you need from your QB, especially a top pick.
This team doesn't have a single thing to hang its hat on  
Go Terps : 10/25/2020 10:51 pm : link
Great backfield? No.
Strong OL? No.
Dynamic pass catchers? No.
Game defining edge rushers? No.
Lock down secondary? No.

Even if Gettleman's picks had worked out at a league average rate, it's tough to see the logic on the macro level. He's just been a huge, pathetic, embarrassing failure.
RE: This team doesn't have a single thing to hang its hat on  
Producer : 10/25/2020 10:55 pm : link
In comment 15024606 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Great backfield? No.
Strong OL? No.
Dynamic pass catchers? No.
Game defining edge rushers? No.
Lock down secondary? No.

Even if Gettleman's picks had worked out at a league average rate, it's tough to see the logic on the macro level. He's just been a huge, pathetic, embarrassing failure.


Look, maybe nobody knows what the hell they're doing. Maybe it's all random and luck and it is impossible to tell who will be a great player. Posit that for a second. Gettleman is doing far less than well than a rando with a blindfold. It's kind of shocking how bad he has been. He literally seems to have no plan.
RE: Yeah  
Anakim : 10/25/2020 10:55 pm : link
In comment 15024539 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but the Giants should trade any of the players on the team right now who have any value and get more draft picks. And not even early round picks, the Giants need 6th and 7th round picks.

because you build through the draft.


I agree. I just don't want Gettleman making any of those picks.
RE: RE: I still have a lot of hope for Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas  
jvm52106 : 10/25/2020 11:14 pm : link
In comment 15024594 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15024583 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


Way to early to give up. I honestly think they will all be top players. Throw in lower picks Peart, Slayton, Hernandez, and hopefully McKinney too.



you really think Jones is going to be a top player? Really?


I do! Jones is more than capable.
DG’s  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 10/25/2020 11:17 pm : link
Cluster drafts are comical too. How many Corners? Beal, love, baker, Holmes, Ballantine?. Lmao!

Traded Odell and has drafted only 1 wr in 3 years ( Slayton). Brings in Tate as the answer..LBs and OL for days.

The plan is to luck into talent ...
RE: This is why the “tanking” argument is so dumb..  
GMen72 : 10/26/2020 12:09 am : link
In comment 15024543 Sean said:
Quote:
It doesn’t matter where a team picks, it matters WHO they pick. Clearly, high valued draft picks have done nothing for this franchise because they still get it wrong.


Yeah, didn't work for the Rams, 49ers, or Browns, right? The problem with tanking, if you're GM still sucks, you're right, it's pointless. Even Miami is starting to look better, especially on defense. If you hit on a GM, tanking absolutely works. How would it not, you can draft the best available player in every round for multiple years.
Tanking works  
JoeyBigBlue : 10/26/2020 12:46 am : link
If you hit on Franchise altering QB. From everything I’ve seen an read, Trevor Lawrence is exactly that.
RE: DG’s  
monstercoo : 10/26/2020 2:26 am : link
In comment 15024618 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
Quote:
Cluster drafts are comical too. How many Corners? Beal, love, baker, Holmes, Ballantine?. Lmao!

Traded Odell and has drafted only 1 wr in 3 years ( Slayton). Brings in Tate as the answer..LBs and OL for days.

The plan is to luck into talent ...


The thing that bugs me the most about DG and his guys is that they seem to love drafting boring (on and off the field) players for a boring old school offensive scheme. Id take a bad Reese team over a bad DG team any day.
RE: This is why the “tanking” argument is so dumb..  
MookGiants : 10/26/2020 2:49 am : link
In comment 15024543 Sean said:
Quote:
It doesn’t matter where a team picks, it matters WHO they pick. Clearly, high valued draft picks have done nothing for this franchise because they still get it wrong.


So because the Giants have had a terrible front office for a while now it makes the tanking argument dumb?

No.

The only thing this shows is that no matter how high you pick, you still need a good front office.

Says nothing about the "tanking" part.
Mook..  
Sean : 10/26/2020 8:07 am : link
With a competent front office, tanking is irrelevant. The front office is so poor that they would probably pass on Lawrence if they got the 1st pick this year.
The Giants won't 'out-tank' the Jets...  
BamaBlue : 10/26/2020 8:12 am : link
not even if they really tried.
The draft isn't just dumb luck...  
Dnew15 : 10/26/2020 8:30 am : link
there is absolutely a process, a science to it if you will, and the Giants process/science is all wrong.

If the draft were dumb luck - there wouldn't be teams like Seattle, Pitt, SF, NO, Balt, NE...etc.
RE: The draft isn't just dumb luck...  
Sean : 10/26/2020 8:32 am : link
In comment 15024804 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
there is absolutely a process, a science to it if you will, and the Giants process/science is all wrong.

If the draft were dumb luck - there wouldn't be teams like Seattle, Pitt, SF, NO, Balt, NE...etc.


That’s my point. All those teams consistently pick at the bottom of the draft.
RE: RE: Just saw on Twitter that Simmons is barely playing for Arizona..  
FStubbs : 10/26/2020 9:18 am : link
In comment 15024604 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 15024600 Sean said:


Quote:


I guess he’s been struggling?



Thought he was another "generational" talent who was going to change the NFL?


People said he would be an interesting player who could be lined up all over the field and create mismatch problems, but nobody called him "generational".
RE: The draft isn't just dumb luck...  
bw in dc : 10/26/2020 9:26 am : link
In comment 15024804 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
there is absolutely a process, a science to it if you will, and the Giants process/science is all wrong.

If the draft were dumb luck - there wouldn't be teams like Seattle, Pitt, SF, NO, Balt, NE...etc.


According to Mara last year at his presser he was over the moon thrilled with the new grading system/scouting/process Gettleman has installed.

Paying real dividends.
RE: I still have a lot of hope for Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, and Thomas  
HomerJones45 : 10/26/2020 9:32 am : link
In comment 15024583 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Way to early to give up. I honestly think they will all be top players. Throw in lower picks Peart, Slayton, Hernandez, and hopefully McKinney too.
Contracts are ticking. Barkley is in the last year of his deal next season. Jones and Lawrence the year after. Much time has been wasted.
Anakim  
ryanmkeane : 10/26/2020 9:40 am : link
this team is not a "dumpster fire." Any Giants fan who has been watching them this season and would come away with that depiction of the team isn't paying much attention.
They've beaten the *fan* out of me.  
x meadowlander : 10/26/2020 9:47 am : link
Sad - after 41 years of pretty intense support - I lived and died with them for decades, but now? I can care less. The loss to the Eagles registered *zero* on my "fucks-given" scale. I wasn't pissed and certainly wasn't shocked.

It is bizarre how, in an era of free agency that makes it so much easier to build strong rosters than it was in the past, to have teams like the Jets and Giants who perennially suck.

I didn't expect this years team to be a dramatic improvement over last season - but somehow, the futility prevails. At this point, ownership begins to come into focus as the problem.
RE: Anakim  
Anakim : 10/26/2020 10:23 am : link
In comment 15024886 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
this team is not a "dumpster fire." Any Giants fan who has been watching them this season and would come away with that depiction of the team isn't paying much attention.


Excuse me? What's our record? What was our record last year? What was our record the year before that? What talent is on this team?

Take off the rose-colored glasses, Ryan and see things for how they truly are. There is a bleak future ahead of us.
RE: Anakim  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 10/26/2020 10:34 am : link
In comment 15024886 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
this team is not a "dumpster fire." Any Giants fan who has been watching them this season and would come away with that depiction of the team isn't paying much attention.


I paid very close attention to the last 6 minutes of the Eagles game. Anakim is absolutely correct “dumpster fire”.
Let’s look at what we haven’t done.  
Beef Wellington : 10/26/2020 12:06 pm : link
Johnny Boy! Until his brilliance is eliminated from the equation failure will continue.
Poor drafting  
jeff57 : 10/26/2020 6:46 pm : link
Refusal to trade down. Not listening to McAdoo in the 2017 draft.
Here is the thing: we haven't drafted well regardless of excuses  
SGMen : 10/26/2020 7:59 pm : link
Barkley gets hurt.
Baker is a felon.
Hernandez is "average" at best.
Lawrence is solid and will get better but by how much?
Jones is a quality starter in my book but will he turn it over more than you like due to his style?
Thomas the rookie is struggling though many rookie LT's have a hard time in the NFL as rookies - and those guys had full camps!
McKinney, a safety with talent, hurt in camp.
Ximines "average" at best.
Carter tears Achilles but was proving to be ok at least.

No stars yet. I have hopes that Thomas, Peart, McKinney, Holmes, Jones, Lawrence and even Barkley (ACL) and Slayton develop into studs that can be counted. But we will likely have a Top 4 pick and we need to pick a stud. We need a 2nd round stud too. We need to sign 2 or 3 UFA's that are "Bradberry & Martinez" type signings - quality for reasonable price.

We need a new GM; new FO; but keep Judge and staff. we need a lot.
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