2018: Hired Steve Wilks, drafted Josh Rosen.
(Had one of the worst rosters in the NFL)
2019: Fired Wilks, hired Kliff. Moved on from Rosen, drafted Kyler.
2020: 5-2 and in playoff contention.
The Cardinals blew a top 10 pick, have had two coaches in three years and also have a second year QB and are miles ahead of the Giants.
I’m glad you started this thread. I don’t think anyone would name the Cardinals’ front office as one if the leagues best, yet their rebuild is miles ahead of the Giants’.
Meanwhile, the NFCE has been the worst division for at least the last two years and we can’t even sniff .500, let alone do other cool things like beating real teams.
Meanwhile, the NFCE has been the worst division for at least the last two years and we can’t even sniff .500, let alone do other cool things like beating real teams.
Remember beating real teams? That was fun.
Rosen was a complete failure. Funny, some here wanted the Giants to trade for Rosen instead of drafting Haskins or Jones.. Hmmm..
Anyway, Rosen failed and Wilks was over his head. The Cards however had a RB, WR, Edge Rusher, CB etc to build around already.
Klingsbury comes in with his specific offensive style and gets the perfect QB for it. The also draft multiple Wr's and a standout S to boot. Then they trade for an all world WR and trade (last sesson) for a low cost RB who has played well for them... We held on to an aging QB for far too long and then drafted a RB way too high!!!
I loved what Arizona did with Rosen to Murray. They brought in a new HC with a specific plan and let him go and do it. Murray was such a massive upgrade for them. Worst case scenario he busts and they try again in a couple of years - I think that risk is always worth it.
I was slower to coming around to this type of thinking but come 2019 draft I would have been completely on board with Murray (if we were in position to take him).
The past 15 years are littered with the next big thing that didn't come to pass.
I guess we'll see.
I’ve been generous in writing off Gettleman’s awful 2018 offseason because he walked into a bad situation and was suffering from cancer. He is a human being and deserving some understanding.
The problem is that the 2019 and 2020 offseasons haven’t helped elevate the team. Meanwhile the Cards GM, Keim, who was actually suspended for a very serious DUI infraction in the 2018 offseason (we are not taking the epitome of professionalism here) has rebuilt the team.
Quite the comeback............
Isn't that better than what we've been doing?
The past 15 years are littered with the next big thing that didn't come to pass.
I guess we'll see.
Yeah Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson were flashes in the pan....
We'll see how it goes for the rest of the year, and next.
My statement wasn't so much about the Giants as it was about people jumping onto the bandwagon of the hot hand as the "right" way to do things.
2nd corner is a big issue for the defense, teama juat avoid throwing at Bradberry and pick on Lewis..
Edge rusher, Giants defense gets some pressure but they dont have that consistent edge rusher, an edge rusher can take over games and takes pressure off of the secondary..
Number 1 receiver, add a number 1 guy to Slayton and Shepard and you got a good to great receiving core, you need that guy who can consistently get open and take attention of the defense..
Oline, For all we know answer at left tackle ia Peart and Thomas at right with lemexiu at right guard, but at this moment Jones is still running for his life. Gates has played better and better at center, hernandez has played better this year but the line still is defecient..
We'll see how it goes for the rest of the year, and next.
My statement wasn't so much about the Giants as it was about people jumping onto the bandwagon of the hot hand as the "right" way to do things.
They nailed the most important position on the field and i'm 99% sure with Murray we are atleast .500 this year. People keep saying a better QB wouldn't do much better here and I really don't agree.
The past 15 years are littered with the next big thing that didn't come to pass.
I guess we'll see.
It doesn’t matter if the Cardinals flame out in two years the fact that they got here so quick is the important part. Meanwhile we’re sitting in year 3 of a rebuild, heading into year 4 with no end in sight
because he waa constantly hurt
Sometimes it sucks and perhaps, Wilks specifically, got a raw deal being ousted after just 1 year but the Cards saw an opportunity and obviously they also saw Rosen was not the goods and they acted.
I think the lesson here for NYG is if you wind up with a crack at Lawrence, you take it. They won't have a shot at him unless Jones plays into them having that opportunity. That said, I don't expect he will or that they'll be in that position.
Side note, that Cards game last season was Shurmur's nail in the coffin.
Well they have an MVP candidate at QB - what does their historical record have to do with that?
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It's easy to get excited about the Cardinals right now. They are off to a hot start and playing well.
We'll see how it goes for the rest of the year, and next.
My statement wasn't so much about the Giants as it was about people jumping onto the bandwagon of the hot hand as the "right" way to do things.
They nailed the most important position on the field and i'm 99% sure with Murray we are atleast .500 this year. People keep saying a better QB wouldn't do much better here and I really don't agree.
If the Giants tailored the offense to him then i agree, but if you put him in this offense i dont think he would be as dangerous. It also helps whenever you are in trouble you have Hopkins.
Yiu can have the greatest QB without tslent and without thr right system they are not going to succeed, no great qb goes and does it by himself, every single one has at least a number 1 guy.
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While I'm not going to argue the failings of the Giants, BBI in general LOVES the next big thing, until it isn't.
The past 15 years are littered with the next big thing that didn't come to pass.
I guess we'll see.
It doesn’t matter if the Cardinals flame out in two years the fact that they got here so quick is the important part. Meanwhile we’re sitting in year 3 of a rebuild, heading into year 4 with no end in sight
An important distinction was made on that last night on the game thread.
The Cardinals roster, as a whole, was not nearly in as bad a shape as ours was in 2018 when Reese and McAdoo were ousted.
montanagiant : 12:17 am : link : reply
2013 - 10-6
2014 - 11-5
2015 - 13-3
2016 - 7-8-1
2017 - 8-8
2018 - 3-13
2019 - 5-10
Our roster, starting in 2012, went to complete garbage. The core was completely gone. The Cardinals did not have nearly the hole we did to dig out of.
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In comment 15024832 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
While I'm not going to argue the failings of the Giants, BBI in general LOVES the next big thing, until it isn't.
The past 15 years are littered with the next big thing that didn't come to pass.
I guess we'll see.
It doesn’t matter if the Cardinals flame out in two years the fact that they got here so quick is the important part. Meanwhile we’re sitting in year 3 of a rebuild, heading into year 4 with no end in sight
An important distinction was made on that last night on the game thread.
The Cardinals roster, as a whole, was not nearly in as bad a shape as ours was in 2018 when Reese and McAdoo were ousted.
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Cards were not in worse shape than the Giants guys
montanagiant : 12:17 am : link : reply
2013 - 10-6
2014 - 11-5
2015 - 13-3
2016 - 7-8-1
2017 - 8-8
2018 - 3-13
2019 - 5-10
Our roster, starting in 2012, went to complete garbage. The core was completely gone. The Cardinals did not have nearly the hole we did to dig out of.
The Cardinals roster was better than the Giants roster in 2018?
The 2018 Giants had:
Odell
Saqoun
Sheppard
Harrison
Vernon
Collins
Jenkins
Tomlinson
The Cardinals roster was equal or worse than what the Giants had in 2018.
Lots of teams are flashes in the pan. I'd rather be the Seahawks than the Cardinals, if we're looking for a team to emulate.
The past 15 years are littered with the next big thing that didn't come to pass.
I guess we'll see.
Come on Britt, we've had 6 wins once in 7 years. We're not looking for the next shiny thing, we're looking for something that doesn't look like a steaming pile of shit.
The lengths some will got to defend this organization, or at least minimize its offenses, is beyond the pale.
2) Shurmur was the wrong choice from the get go.
3) After all that we doubled down on ELI again and drafted a RB at #2 who should not have been taken. I don't care if he is Barry Sanders, your offense was poor up front and your QB was aged (not even aging).
4) Drafting Jones at 6 can be questioned but I still think he is the goods. The other picks can be questioned when you consider what we have assembled. First D.Lawrence could be a pro bowler but, he hasn't shown that yet and in a 3-4 he is a tad limited on his overall impact. Add in the fact that we drafted a few other DT's all in Rds 1-3 and we have too much draft capital in a position that doesn't usually see that kind of investment for teams playing a 3-4. The when you haven't drafted an impact backer in YEARS and our rush is a joke, you have made those DT selections look even more questionable.
5) We have no skill position players that scare teams outside of Barkley and his play actually made it even easier for teams to stop the Giants. Barkley was a target (look at week 1) and teams dared the Giants to beat them with the pass because we have no threat to throw to and our Oline is so bad they know we will give up sacks. I think Barkley sometimes becomes the focus of the offense- force him the ball but, in the run game we go nothing and in the passing game he has never really shown an Alvin Kamara smoothness in catching the ball. Now that Barkley isn't there you see just how poor our WR's are.
6) The Giants drafted guys based on talent/athleticism but, they then forced them to play a scheme that didn't fit them. EE was asked to block a lot- knowing he is horrible at it and now we are seeing that his speed and athleticism doesn't mean good pass catcher and route runner..
7) The Giants right now are at point where they have to commit in one of two ways:
a) They are all in on DJ and they focus on getting the Oline right and add some firepower.
b) They are not keeping DJ and need to move him before the draft or risk getting NOTHING much in return.
I think DJ is the guy and just needs help. Many here are ignoring the fact that we could have and should have beat Dallas, Philadelphia and quite possibly Chicago.. The offense has almost no threats in the passing game and yet we had the lead in both the Philly and Dallas games. The defense cannot make game changing plays. They cannot turn the tide when it is needed. We have multiple high rd picks on the DL, FA signings at LB and a big FA at CB. Yet, we cannot make the plays when it is most needed. Give the offense some play makers and give DJ a bit of time and the he will be fine.
It’s possible that I’m falsely seeing a “trend” when it’s really a couple of special guys out there. But watching Murray jitterbugging around behind a mediocre OL, you can really see how much less infrastructure he requires to win.
Lots of teams are flashes in the pan. I'd rather be the Seahawks than the Cardinals, if we're looking for a team to emulate.
You can’t get to sustainable if you can’t rebuild a team. Getting to this point for the Cardinals will be a net positive for their future. The Giants are still two years away from any net positive and they started the rebuild at the same time.
It was worse than ours. It made ours look like the ‘93 Cowboys. Yet, magically, just a few years later, the Cards are a competitive team in the best division in football.
Meanwhile, at Jints Central another year of excuses...
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In comment 15024832 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
While I'm not going to argue the failings of the Giants, BBI in general LOVES the next big thing, until it isn't.
The past 15 years are littered with the next big thing that didn't come to pass.
I guess we'll see.
It doesn’t matter if the Cardinals flame out in two years the fact that they got here so quick is the important part. Meanwhile we’re sitting in year 3 of a rebuild, heading into year 4 with no end in sight
An important distinction was made on that last night on the game thread.
The Cardinals roster, as a whole, was not nearly in as bad a shape as ours was in 2018 when Reese and McAdoo were ousted.
Quote:
Cards were not in worse shape than the Giants guys
montanagiant : 12:17 am : link : reply
2013 - 10-6
2014 - 11-5
2015 - 13-3
2016 - 7-8-1
2017 - 8-8
2018 - 3-13
2019 - 5-10
Our roster, starting in 2012, went to complete garbage. The core was completely gone. The Cardinals did not have nearly the hole we did to dig out of.
This is a terrible point. Of their offensive starters, only Fitzgerald and Humphries were on that 8-8 2017 team.
It's easy to jump on the bandwagon of whoever is winning and say "this is the right way to do things". Because hey, who can argue, they're winning.
Coming off the 5-10 year last year, I'd love to see where all of the "Watch out for the Cardinals, the Cardinals are doing things the right way" posters were. Same thing with Cleveland with Dorsey and Baker Mayfield.... Look out for Cleveland. Oh no, we gifted the Jets Sam Darnold! Josh Freeman is better than Eli Manning (2009). Rex and the Jets with Sanchez are the way to do it! The list goes on and on.
As mentioned, the Cardinals have the longest championship drought in the modern era. The Giants have been to and won a Superbowl every decade for the past 40 years.
So we'll see.
It’s possible that I’m falsely seeing a “trend” when it’s really a couple of special guys out there. But watching Murray jitterbugging around behind a mediocre OL, you can really see how much less infrastructure he requires to win.
Brady is very good at avoiding the rush unless it comes up the middle. I wouldn't put him strictly in the category of stationary pocket passer.
From making the Giants a contender.
I don't agree. Judge isn't in over his head like Wilks was. But yeah if we pick #1 overall then our new GM should pick his guy for QB.
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.... I have a nagging feeling that we are slowly seeing a transition towards uber-mobile and evasive QBs in the NFL. DJ is incredibly fast, but I’m talking about guys with the quickness and burst to toy with pass rushers, like we saw with Wilson and Murray last night, who turned the game into something resembling flag football. Yes, there are numerous examples — like Brady — of pocket passers still succeeding, but like traditional post-up centers in basketball or speed merchant base stealers in baseball, I feel like we might be on the verge of a paradigm shift — Tua is next on deck. And maybe Justin Fields thereafter.
It’s possible that I’m falsely seeing a “trend” when it’s really a couple of special guys out there. But watching Murray jitterbugging around behind a mediocre OL, you can really see how much less infrastructure he requires to win.
Brady is very good at avoiding the rush unless it comes up the middle. I wouldn't put him strictly in the category of stationary pocket passer.
True. He’s a master. And the NFL is littered with failed/injured pocket passers, who need all sorts of infrastructure and incredible skill around them. Having a guy who makes the first guy miss every single time, a guy with the athleticism to avoid big hits ... it just seems like a way to bypass some of the need for building traditionally.
Draw your own rebuilding curve and determine where the NYG are on it after these last several years.
From making the Giants a contender.
Yikes - I wish I were as optimistic as you are about this statement.
I think I"m about as opposite as you can be on that one.
Of course nobody knows the plan for sure, but when Gettleman's first charge as GM was to build a team to win one last superbowl with Eli Manning.
Rebuilding teams don't make middle of the road left tackles the highest paid at their position. They don't take running backs #2 overall. John Mara looked at the roster and thought they were a couple pieces away from a championship, which is laughable.
Rebuilding teams trade veterans who are not a part of the long term plan. Most importantly, they start with a new franchise quarterback. Those things didn't happen till the end of the 2018 season.
In my opinion, the Giants totally miscalculated what they could accomplish with a 38 year old Eli Manning, and it created a dominoe affect delaying the rebuild.
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From making the Giants a contender.
Yikes - I wish I were as optimistic as you are about this statement.
I think I"m about as opposite as you can be on that one.
Apologies -- I was being facetious.
It’s ridiculous at this point how fast they’ve ascended while this operation is going in the opposite direction. How fucking Dave survives a 1-3 win year is beyond comprehension.
It’s possible that I’m falsely seeing a “trend” when it’s really a couple of special guys out there. But watching Murray jitterbugging around behind a mediocre OL, you can really see how much less infrastructure he requires to win.
I think you are exactly right but as an old guy I really don't enjoy the kind of schoolyard football the NFL is turning toward.
The Cardinals are a refutation of all that, and don't give me any nonsense about what a better position they were in than the Giants. Baloney. The 2018 Cardinals were a significantly worse team than the 2018 Giants, and there are virtually no holdovers from the last good Bruce Arians team in 2015 and the team that beat the Seahawks last night. They have one starter remaining on offense (Larry Fitz on his last NFL legs) and one on defense (a declining Patrick Peterson).
The only people I really want to defend these days are Judge, Jones, and to a lesser extent, Saquon, because I don't feel like they've been dealt a fair hand. I like these guys.
If Gettleman is gone at the end of the year, doesn't bother me one bit.