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NFT: Flu Shot

Big Al : 10/26/2020 11:11 am
Got mine this morning. This is my annual thread telling people to do so. I know this year is more complicated but maximize your chance to stay healthy.
Got Mine Last Week At The CVS At Target  
Trainmaster : 10/26/2020 11:24 am : link
Also got a $5 off coupon at Target for getting the Flu Shot there.
also, a suggestion to wait until you have had good sleep  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/26/2020 11:27 am : link
or get good sleep in anticipation of a flu shot.

Quote:
To make that flu shot effective, sleep specialist Matthew Walker, the bestselling author of "Why We Sleep," told CNN's Christiane Amanpour practicing "good sleep hygiene" is important.

Insufficient sleep in the week before getting a flu shot can lead to the production of less than 50% of the normal antibody response -- a reaction that would render the flu shot largely ineffective, Walker told Amanpour. Walker specializes in the relationship between sleep and human health at the University of California, Berkeley.
Walker cited a 2002 study published by the Journal of the American Medical Association, and a 2020 study in the International Journal of Behavioral Medicine supports those findings, suggesting that sleep on nights prior to vaccination could be critical to vaccine efficacy.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/health/flu-shot-effectiveness-sleep-wellness/index.html - ( New Window )
Paul, hate to be a skeptic,  
section125 : 10/26/2020 11:38 am : link
but how the hell do you know you've had a good week of sleep? However I sleep, I sleep.

Only thing my doc said was to wait until October so the effectiveness lasts until spring - I guess they have about a 6 month period in which they help...

Thanks Big Al for the reminder. Got mine the start of October with the Shingles shot - have to wit until December for the 2nd one.
I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
fivehead : 10/26/2020 11:39 am : link
but thanks for "telling me to do so".
RE: Paul, hate to be a skeptic,  
pjcas18 : 10/26/2020 11:41 am : link
In comment 15025083 section125 said:
Quote:
but how the hell do you know you've had a good week of sleep? However I sleep, I sleep.

Only thing my doc said was to wait until October so the effectiveness lasts until spring - I guess they have about a 6 month period in which they help...

Thanks Big Al for the reminder. Got mine the start of October with the Shingles shot - have to wit until December for the 2nd one.


2nd one?
RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
UConn4523 : 10/26/2020 11:41 am : link
In comment 15025087 fivehead said:
Quote:
but thanks for "telling me to do so".


The flu shot isn’t about you.
RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
Big Al : 10/26/2020 11:45 am : link
In comment 15025087 fivehead said:
Quote:
but thanks for "telling me to do so".
i would use the word suggest rather than tell. Sorry if it came off that way. Do what you want.
RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
pjcas18 : 10/26/2020 11:50 am : link
In comment 15025087 fivehead said:
Quote:
but thanks for "telling me to do so".


Your call. Sounds like you've done your research.

The people who got polio were perfectly healthy before getting polio too.
RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
ThreePoints : 10/26/2020 11:51 am : link
In comment 15025087 fivehead said:
Quote:
but thanks for "telling me to do so".


"Smallpox? Why would I get a vaccine, I've never had it before!"

What a dummy you are.
CVS  
Simms : 10/26/2020 11:58 am : link
I plan on getting mine today or tomorrow.
Got my flu shot a few weeks ago  
US1 Giants : 10/26/2020 12:01 pm : link
no side affects.
Got mine a couple of weeks back.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/26/2020 12:02 pm : link
& for the life of me, I don't understand why people refuse to get one, but oh well.
Five minutes  
Big Al : 10/26/2020 12:03 pm : link
in and out in my doctor’s office. A little more work this year because I had to schedule a time due to social distancing where previously I just called and walked in. Before I retired, used to get it at work, where the company brought in a nurse for a day or two.
RE: RE: Paul, hate to be a skeptic,  
section125 : 10/26/2020 12:05 pm : link
In comment 15025091 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15025083 section125 said:


Quote:


but how the hell do you know you've had a good week of sleep? However I sleep, I sleep.

Only thing my doc said was to wait until October so the effectiveness lasts until spring - I guess they have about a 6 month period in which they help...

Thanks Big Al for the reminder. Got mine the start of October with the Shingles shot - have to wit until December for the 2nd one.



2nd one?


Like Hepatitas B, the shingles vaccine requires an initial then a second shot between 2 and 6 months later.

Yeah, when I posted it, I thought I may not have been clear with the shingles shot.
RE: Got mine a couple of weeks back.  
giants#1 : 10/26/2020 12:07 pm : link
In comment 15025131 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
& for the life of me, I don't understand why people refuse to get one, but oh well.


Yea, I don't understand why people are against it. With pharmacies everywhere now (most grocery stores, Walmart, Target, etc) it literally adds 5 min to a trip to any of those places. And its free with most insurance plans.
RE: RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
section125 : 10/26/2020 12:07 pm : link
In comment 15025093 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15025087 fivehead said:


Quote:


but thanks for "telling me to do so".



The flu shot isn’t about you.


Really?
RE: RE: RE: Paul, hate to be a skeptic,  
pjcas18 : 10/26/2020 12:08 pm : link
In comment 15025139 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15025091 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 15025083 section125 said:


Quote:


but how the hell do you know you've had a good week of sleep? However I sleep, I sleep.

Only thing my doc said was to wait until October so the effectiveness lasts until spring - I guess they have about a 6 month period in which they help...

Thanks Big Al for the reminder. Got mine the start of October with the Shingles shot - have to wit until December for the 2nd one.



2nd one?



Like Hepatitas B, the shingles vaccine requires an initial then a second shot between 2 and 6 months later.

Yeah, when I posted it, I thought I may not have been clear with the shingles shot.


I see, I thought you were suggesting a 2nd flu shot.
Flu shots must be working great  
theold5j : 10/26/2020 12:10 pm : link
Flu cases are down like 98% from last year.
It is easier  
Big Al : 10/26/2020 12:11 pm : link
for me to get it at the doctor’s office where they have all my my insurance information and just a signature on a form they had ready for me.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Paul, hate to be a skeptic,  
section125 : 10/26/2020 12:11 pm : link
In comment 15025152 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15025139 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15025091 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 15025083 section125 said:


Quote:


but how the hell do you know you've had a good week of sleep? However I sleep, I sleep.

Only thing my doc said was to wait until October so the effectiveness lasts until spring - I guess they have about a 6 month period in which they help...

Thanks Big Al for the reminder. Got mine the start of October with the Shingles shot - have to wit until December for the 2nd one.



2nd one?



Like Hepatitas B, the shingles vaccine requires an initial then a second shot between 2 and 6 months later.

Yeah, when I posted it, I thought I may not have been clear with the shingles shot.



I see, I thought you were suggesting a 2nd flu shot.


apologies...
RE: RE: RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
Eli Wilson : 10/26/2020 12:14 pm : link
In comment 15025149 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15025093 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 15025087 fivehead said:


Quote:


but thanks for "telling me to do so".



The flu shot isn’t about you.



Really?


No, it's about the Pharma companies cashing in.

If we're all wearing masks and social distancing for the foreseeable future, is the shot necessary?
RE: RE: Got mine a couple of weeks back.  
fivehead : 10/26/2020 12:14 pm : link
In comment 15025148 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15025131 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& for the life of me, I don't understand why people refuse to get one, but oh well.



Yea, I don't understand why people are against it. With pharmacies everywhere now (most grocery stores, Walmart, Target, etc) it literally adds 5 min to a trip to any of those places. And its free with most insurance plans.


I am not against the flu shot. People who want it should get it.
RE: RE: RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
UConn4523 : 10/26/2020 12:16 pm : link
In comment 15025149 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15025093 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 15025087 fivehead said:


Quote:


but thanks for "telling me to do so".



The flu shot isn’t about you.



Really?


Yes
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
section125 : 10/26/2020 12:17 pm : link
In comment 15025166 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
In comment 15025149 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15025093 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 15025087 fivehead said:


Quote:


but thanks for "telling me to do so".



The flu shot isn’t about you.



Really?



No, it's about the Pharma companies cashing in.

If we're all wearing masks and social distancing for the foreseeable future, is the shot necessary?


Brilliant....

Now, how about teachers, retail employees, construction workers - you know people that have to work with other people. Two different animals.
This is the perfect time to get...  
bw in dc : 10/26/2020 12:20 pm : link
the flu shot. It's usually effective for six months so getting it now should provide ample protection well into the start of Spring.

It's unbelievable how many people year after year don't get the shot. The positive impact it has on the overall public health is substantial. I almost wish it was mandatory...
RE: RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
JayBinQueens : 10/26/2020 12:23 pm : link
In comment 15025111 ThreePoints said:
Quote:
In comment 15025087 fivehead said:


Quote:


but thanks for "telling me to do so".



"Smallpox? Why would I get a vaccine, I've never had it before!"

What a dummy you are.

I mean, you're not comparing apples to oranges.

They take an educated guess as to what will be the most common flu strains of the year. Getting the flu shot doesn't mean you won't get the flu.

The small pox vaccine prevents you from getting small pox
RE: RE: RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
JayBinQueens : 10/26/2020 12:24 pm : link
In comment 15025182 JayBinQueens said:
Quote:
In comment 15025111 ThreePoints said:


Quote:


In comment 15025087 fivehead said:


Quote:


but thanks for "telling me to do so".



"Smallpox? Why would I get a vaccine, I've never had it before!"

What a dummy you are.


I mean, you're not comparing apples to oranges.

They take an educated guess as to what will be the most common flu strains of the year. Getting the flu shot doesn't mean you won't get the flu.

The small pox vaccine prevents you from getting small pox

Whoops. You're comparing apples to oranges. D'oh
RE: RE: RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
section125 : 10/26/2020 12:28 pm : link
In comment 15025182 JayBinQueens said:
Quote:

The small pox vaccine prevents you from getting small pox



FWIW, WHO said small pox was eradicated in 1980..there have been no naturally occurring cases since. 1st time a disease was effectively eliminated.
Well, yes you can still get the flu if you get the shot.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/26/2020 12:30 pm : link
But I believe the symptoms won't be nearly as severe if you get one, or so I think I've read.
RE: Well, yes you can still get the flu if you get the shot.  
section125 : 10/26/2020 12:33 pm : link
In comment 15025190 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
But I believe the symptoms won't be nearly as severe if you get one, or so I think I've read.


Yep, that is correct. Even if you get a strain not included in the vaccination, supposedly it will be less severe.

Never got one until I became an old geezer, but cannot take chances with the "other" one around to compound things.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
giants#1 : 10/26/2020 12:34 pm : link
In comment 15025166 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
In comment 15025149 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15025093 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 15025087 fivehead said:


Quote:


but thanks for "telling me to do so".



The flu shot isn’t about you.



Really?



No, it's about the Pharma companies cashing in.

If we're all wearing masks and social distancing for the foreseeable future, is the shot necessary?


Pharma would make more money treating people that get sick.

And unfortunately, many people still don't wear masks and/or socially distance.
Yeah...  
Chris in Philly : 10/26/2020 12:40 pm : link
Some people still won’t even wear a mask, they’re not getting a shot...
It's especially important this year  
Bill L : 10/26/2020 12:55 pm : link
you don't want to have to try to fight off the flu and CoV-2 in the same time periods.

Hopefully, the COVID practices will also help to keep flu down this year, but there's no guarantee.
RE: Paul, hate to be a skeptic,  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/26/2020 12:55 pm : link
In comment 15025083 section125 said:
Quote:
but how the hell do you know you've had a good week of sleep? However I sleep, I sleep.


You don't know when you've had a good night of sleep?

Let's use today as an example. Say you typically try to get 7-8 hours of sleep a night (which is what we should be doing though most people do not). And that's your norm.
No, say, for whatever reason you've had a stressful week with work, or travel, or other issues that caused you to get 4-6 hours of sleep last night, or a few bad days in a row of lesser hours of sleep, then perhaps don't get the flu shot today. Get it next week when you've had a chance to reset.

Or, say that you routinely get 5-6 hours of sleep a night due to insomnia, bad habits, TV, work, whatever-- I have never been good at shutting down for the night myself. The goal would be to try and force yourself to commit to going to bed earlier and trying to get a few nights in a row of more thorough sleep so that the flu shot is more effective.

That's what I mean by having a good week of sleep.
RE: RE: Paul, hate to be a skeptic,  
Bill L : 10/26/2020 1:00 pm : link
In comment 15025244 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
In comment 15025083 section125 said:


Quote:


but how the hell do you know you've had a good week of sleep? However I sleep, I sleep.




You don't know when you've had a good night of sleep?

Let's use today as an example. Say you typically try to get 7-8 hours of sleep a night (which is what we should be doing though most people do not). And that's your norm.
No, say, for whatever reason you've had a stressful week with work, or travel, or other issues that caused you to get 4-6 hours of sleep last night, or a few bad days in a row of lesser hours of sleep, then perhaps don't get the flu shot today. Get it next week when you've had a chance to reset.

Or, say that you routinely get 5-6 hours of sleep a night due to insomnia, bad habits, TV, work, whatever-- I have never been good at shutting down for the night myself. The goal would be to try and force yourself to commit to going to bed earlier and trying to get a few nights in a row of more thorough sleep so that the flu shot is more effective.

That's what I mean by having a good week of sleep.


I don't know if I really believe it.

However, I will see that there are studies that show a link between immune responses and stress (specifically cortisol and other types of stress hormones), so maybe it isn't far-fetched to think that being rested elevates calming hormones and helps to facilitate productive immune responses. Certainly more reasonable than "Immune Power Diet" types of crap.
This hot blonde  
Pete in MD : 10/26/2020 1:08 pm : link
with big tits told me vaccines are evil so I don't get them.
RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
ImThatGuy : 10/26/2020 1:11 pm : link
In comment 15025087 fivehead said:
Quote:
but thanks for "telling me to do so".


You are probably also a safe driver, so no need to wear your seat belt either
A lot  
Spreegal22 : 10/26/2020 1:26 pm : link
more people getting them this year. I Have probably administered 2 to 3 times the number of shots this year than in previous years.
RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
TyreeHelmet : 10/26/2020 1:31 pm : link
In comment 15025087 fivehead said:
Quote:
but thanks for "telling me to do so".


It's truly unbelievable that in the midst of a global pandemic that this attitude still exists. And this reasoning is why I am worried about how long it will take to truly combat Covid.

I hear this a lot from my friends who are reluctant to get their flu shot is that it "makes them sick". Let me state emphatically that this vaccine cannot make you sick.

What it does do is protect the spread of the flu and helps reduce the strength of it. While you may be perfectly healthy and could withstand the flu- many people cannot. For example- newborns, the elderly and the immunocompromised. You are doing a service for them.

I would love to hear the reasons why people don't receive this. I simply do not understand it for the life of me...
Got my first one ever about two weeks ago  
BlackLight : 10/26/2020 1:31 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
TyreeHelmet : 10/26/2020 1:34 pm : link
In comment 15025166 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
In comment 15025149 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15025093 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 15025087 fivehead said:


Quote:


but thanks for "telling me to do so".



The flu shot isn’t about you.



Really?



No, it's about the Pharma companies cashing in.

If we're all wearing masks and social distancing for the foreseeable future, is the shot necessary?


Please explain how Pharma companies cash in on the flu vaccine?
Got mine 2 weeks ago  
Rick in Dallas : 10/26/2020 1:36 pm : link
Had a reaction to the shot for the first time ever. Felt like crap for 24 hours.
Also got the first of two Shingrex vaccines in September. Go back the middle of November for the second shot.
The shingles vaccine in the arm really hurt for about a day and a half.
RE: RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
pjcas18 : 10/26/2020 1:37 pm : link
In comment 15025305 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 15025087 fivehead said:


Quote:


but thanks for "telling me to do so".



It's truly unbelievable that in the midst of a global pandemic that this attitude still exists. And this reasoning is why I am worried about how long it will take to truly combat Covid.

I hear this a lot from my friends who are reluctant to get their flu shot is that it "makes them sick". Let me state emphatically that this vaccine cannot make you sick.

What it does do is protect the spread of the flu and helps reduce the strength of it. While you may be perfectly healthy and could withstand the flu- many people cannot. For example- newborns, the elderly and the immunocompromised. You are doing a service for them.

I would love to hear the reasons why people don't receive this. I simply do not understand it for the life of me...


This is not entirely true. Yes, it's true the flu shot cannot give you the flu, but you can have a reaction to the flu shot - headache and low grade fever are not uncommon.

Sometimes it's an overreaction to this reaction that causes panic in people.

I was always skeptical of this until my youngest had a reaction this year and it lasted about 36 hours and then she was fine. but to be 100% clear, the flu shot cannot give you the flu but it can make you seem sick. This also complicated things - because she missed school with a fever, she had to get a COVID test to return to school - that took 3+ days to come back (but that's not super relevant).

Still absolutely worth it and not an excuse to not get the shot if that's one's reason.
Got mine sept 5th. no side effects.  
GMAN4LIFE : 10/26/2020 1:37 pm : link
not playing this year
RE: RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
Ron from Ninerland : 10/26/2020 1:52 pm : link
In comment 15025305 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 15025087 fivehead said:


Quote:


but thanks for "telling me to do so".



It's truly unbelievable that in the midst of a global pandemic that this attitude still exists. And this reasoning is why I am worried about how long it will take to truly combat Covid.

I hear this a lot from my friends who are reluctant to get their flu shot is that it "makes them sick". Let me state emphatically that this vaccine cannot make you sick.

Tyree; I'm a proponent of getting flu shots, but it doesn't help to spread mis-information about them. People, including myself have bad reactions to flu shots, sometimes serious. For 2019-2020 I waited until February to get a shot and wound up having such a bad reaction I had to go to the ER. I didn't deter me from getting a flu shot for 2020-2021 a few weeks ago. Once again I felt lousy for a couple of days, but I have no regrets.

Among other reasons, this year hospitals and clinics may be overwhelmed with COVID victims. This is not a good time to get the flu. Even a partially effective imperfect flu vaccine is better than no vaccine.
Flu Shot  
TyreeHelmet : 10/26/2020 2:11 pm : link
I did misstate in my post. The flu vaccine is not a live virus and cannot under any circumstances give you the flu. There are rare side effects that are typically very mild.

Put it this way- every reputable hospital requires all their employees to get a flu vaccine.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
Mad Mike : 10/26/2020 2:14 pm : link
In comment 15025313 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Please explain how Pharma companies cash in on the flu vaccine?

Look, I get the flu shot, and wouldn't consider not getting it. But what kind of question is that?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm perfectly healthy without the shot  
TyreeHelmet : 10/26/2020 2:26 pm : link
In comment 15025377 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 15025313 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


Please explain how Pharma companies cash in on the flu vaccine?


Look, I get the flu shot, and wouldn't consider not getting it. But what kind of question is that?


The poster said- "No, it's about the Pharma companies cashing in."

I am questioning that because it is a dumb reason not to get the flu vaccine. Vaccines are not a huge moneymaker for drug companies. Across all the companies that produce them- it equals a very small portion of their total sales ( 1% or even less).

It is not true nor is it a valid reason to get a flu vaccine that can protect you and many many other people.
Got mine last week...  
Grey Pilgrim : 10/26/2020 2:32 pm : link
:thumbsup:
people simply don't want to do things  
UConn4523 : 10/26/2020 2:35 pm : link
they are told to, which has only heightened in the social media age. If you have a legitimate reason not to get one then fine, I won't argue. But throwing out conspiracy theories is a bad look, and a stupid reason.

If COVID has taught you anything its that we should probably care just a tad bit more about the people around us - and one would think that includes, more especially, family members. I visited my grandmother-in-law at her nursing home on my last work trip to Florida mid-February. I felt terrible for visiting a couple weeks later once quarantine was looking likely.

If I had a sick relative, or a baby, being near them without getting my flu shot seems pretty inconsiderate to put it mildly.
i got my flu shot. when I got home my wife said  
markky : 10/26/2020 2:48 pm : link
"who are you going to get the flu from? you don't go anywhere."
I got the enhanced flu shot this year  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 10/26/2020 2:53 pm : link
because I’m over 65. Felt like I got run over by a truck for a couple of days. Surprised me because I never had a reaction to one before.
getting the flu shot  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/26/2020 3:07 pm : link
will also help with tracking and containing Covid and preventing false reactions on both ends.

If there's also the seasonal flu going around, there will be people getting symptoms that they may confuse with Covid and overwhelm hospitals for common flu treatment.

Conversely, there may also be people who have Covid, didn't get the flu shot, and just chalk up their symptoms to the flu and not Covid.
Regarding the Small Pox vac.  
Beer Man : 10/26/2020 3:36 pm : link
I would recommend everyone getting it, that hasn't. You're witnessing/living through what happens when a foreign entity engineers deadly viruses in labs. Imagine the damage they could do by reintroducing Smallpox to a world that no longer vaccinates for it.
no thank you  
nyfootballfan : 10/26/2020 4:04 pm : link
so frustrating to hear people parrot this flu shot bs.
this is a cash cow as is the cv testing scam.
huge markups to medicare.
plus they are winging it every year.
who recalls pre cv there were two flu vax?
questionable ingredients to boot.
support your natural immune system
plenty of free info out there
supplements
clean food
hydrate
exercise
hit the salad bar, lose 20.
de-stress if you can, pray, meditate, vibrate, whatever.
RE: no thank you  
TyreeHelmet : 10/26/2020 4:20 pm : link
In comment 15025503 nyfootballfan said:
Quote:
so frustrating to hear people parrot this flu shot bs.
this is a cash cow as is the cv testing scam.
huge markups to medicare.
plus they are winging it every year.
who recalls pre cv there were two flu vax?
questionable ingredients to boot.
support your natural immune system
plenty of free info out there
supplements
clean food
hydrate
exercise
hit the salad bar, lose 20.
de-stress if you can, pray, meditate, vibrate, whatever.


Just to be clear- you think people are advised by medical professional to get the flu shot because it is "cash cow". I find it funny and sad to hear people discuss big pharma who know nothing about their business.

If Pharma wanted to make more money nobody would make a flu vaccine. And producing the flu vaccine is not very profitable if at all.

Boggles my mind how people view such an effective method to keeping the population healthy.
RE: RE: no thank you  
nyfootballfan : 10/26/2020 4:51 pm : link
In comment 15025522 TyreeHelmet said:

Just to be clear- you think people are advised by medical professional to get the flu shot because it is "cash cow". I find it funny and sad to hear people discuss big pharma who know nothing about their business.

If Pharma wanted to make more money nobody would make a flu vaccine. And producing the flu vaccine is not very profitable if at all.

Boggles my mind how people view such an effective method to keeping the population healthy. [/quote]

clearly, injecting the populace on a continuing basis with a continuing variety of substances with an average efficacy rate well below 50% does not appear to be quite so "effective", nor without risk.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/past-seasons-estimates.html

also boggles my mind that your mind is boggled by the obvious fact that (bow our heads) "medical professionals" are not overprescribing meds and procedures for huge bank.

another fun fact: hospitals losing $300 Billion from covid related shutdowns.
where are all the dead folks from these cancelled, but ostensibly necessary, procedures?
https://revcycleintelligence.com/news/aha-projects-323b-in-covid-19-hospital-financial-losses-in-2020

look i know docs, nurses and staff as a rule have integrity but people need to approach their healthcare with eyes open.
cheers.
RE: RE: RE: no thank you  
nyfootballfan : 10/26/2020 5:03 pm : link
In comment 15025554 nyfootballfan said:
Quote:
In comment 15025522 TyreeHelmet said:

Just to be clear- you think people are advised by medical professional to get the flu shot because it is "cash cow". I find it funny and sad to hear people discuss big pharma who know nothing about their business.

If Pharma wanted to make more money nobody would make a flu vaccine. And producing the flu vaccine is not very profitable if at all.

Boggles my mind how people view such an effective method to keeping the population healthy.


clearly, injecting the populace on a continuing basis with a continuing variety of substances with an average efficacy rate well below 50% does not appear to be quite so "effective", nor without risk.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/past-seasons-estimates.html

also boggles my mind that your mind is boggled by the obvious fact that (bow our heads) "medical professionals" are not overprescribing meds and procedures for huge bank.

another fun fact: hospitals losing $300 Billion from covid related shutdowns.
where are all the dead folks from these cancelled, but ostensibly necessary, procedures?
https://revcycleintelligence.com/news/aha-projects-323b-in-covid-19-hospital-financial-losses-in-2020

look i know docs, nurses and staff as a rule have integrity but people need to approach their healthcare with eyes open.
cheers. [/quote]
mods please delete my first of two above posts  
nyfootballfan : 10/26/2020 5:05 pm : link
sorry i duplicated above posts when editing.
I got paid $5 to get mine  
oghwga : 10/26/2020 5:15 pm : link
Got the first shingrex too. I am terrified of the shingles so I'm glad I aged into the vaccine.

Wish I would have gone on facebook first to find out about how vaccines don't work and it's all a scam but too late now I've made big pharma rich and now I'm autistic.
RE: no thank you  
Bill L : 10/26/2020 5:23 pm : link
In comment 15025503 nyfootballfan said:
Quote:
so frustrating to hear people parrot this flu shot bs.
this is a cash cow as is the cv testing scam.
huge markups to medicare.
plus they are winging it every year.
who recalls pre cv there were two flu vax?
questionable ingredients to boot.
support your natural immune system
plenty of free info out there
supplements
clean food
hydrate
exercise
hit the salad bar, lose 20.
de-stress if you can, pray, meditate, vibrate, whatever.


It's funny...you're skeptical of the flu shot while I'm thinking that everything you listed to prevent the flu instead of the flu shot is pretty much new millenium snake oil.

Different strokes I guess.
Vaccines...  
Chris in Philly : 10/26/2020 5:36 pm : link
are among the least profitable products that pharma companies make. It’s why some companies have gotten out of the vaccine business entirely.

Supplements? Yes, unregulated concoctions of whatever that can be produced by whoever are a much better option. Talk about cash cows. There’s a reason there’s entire aisles of them by a dozen companies in every pharmacy.
Completely  
pjcas18 : 10/26/2020 5:37 pm : link
agree with nyfootballfan, I'm eschewing the flu shot this year and I'm just going to pray I don't get it.

I mean if homosexuals can pray the gay away, the silly seasonal flu doesn't hold a candle to the power of prayer.
RE: Completely  
section125 : 10/26/2020 5:49 pm : link
In comment 15025599 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
agree with nyfootballfan, I'm eschewing the flu shot this year and I'm just going to pray I don't get it.

I mean if homosexuals can pray the gay away, the silly seasonal flu doesn't hold a candle to the power of prayer.


you day drinking?
RE: RE: no thank you  
nyfootballfan : 10/26/2020 5:55 pm : link
In comment 15025585 Bill L said:
Quote:




It's funny...you're skeptical of the flu shot while I'm thinking that everything you listed to prevent the flu instead of the flu shot is pretty much new millenium snake oil.

Different strokes I guess.


you're about 5 millenia behind actually.
re supplement, lifestyle and treatment of root causes, there is a great deal of real science.
quality of products do vary. do your research.
guys/gals  
nyfootballfan : 10/26/2020 5:58 pm : link
do whatever you want, just trying to present some alternative views. its a free country, maybe for another week. i hope you are all so smug if this stuff becomes mandatory and you can't travel or work without it.
Got mine a few weeks ago at CVS  
NYerInMA : 10/26/2020 5:59 pm : link
All good. No research required.
RE: Vaccines...  
family progtitioner : 10/26/2020 6:06 pm : link
In comment 15025598 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
are among the least profitable products that pharma companies make. It’s why some companies have gotten out of the vaccine business entirely.

Supplements? Yes, unregulated concoctions of whatever that can be produced by whoever are a much better option. Talk about cash cows. There’s a reason there’s entire aisles of them by a dozen companies in every pharmacy.


Thank you and so true. I'm a physician and it kills me when patients bring in all of their supplements which when added up amount to a far, far higher cost than proven medications and treatments per month. Oh, and those supplements typically have zero studies to prove efficacy except their company nonsense and anecdotal tales. People are very gullible and hate listening to experts in this country.
i notice  
nyfootballfan : 10/26/2020 6:18 pm : link
you all jumped on the word "supplements" but none of the replies concern lifestyle adjustments i mentioned?
nobody hears about it in the media either btw. since day 1.
i'm truly sorry that so many feel scared and helpless and put their dependence on one method alone for their health. trying to sign of with a good wish each post, but the level of hostility i have received is a pretty good tell that i hit a nerve. regards.
What's the argument against getting the flu shot?  
Milton : 10/26/2020 6:25 pm : link
Is there a downside?
Last flu shot I got was the 1975 Swine flu shot  
Stan in LA : 10/26/2020 6:32 pm : link
Was sick for 6 months afterward. Never again, baby.

FYI, never got the flu since then and with everyone wearing masks today gonna be a non-existent flu season anyway.
RE: RE: RE: RE: no thank you  
Jim in Fairfax : 10/26/2020 6:37 pm : link
In comment 15025563 nyfootballfan said:
Quote:
another fun fact: hospitals losing $300 Billion from covid related shutdowns.
where are all the dead folks from these cancelled, but ostensibly necessary, procedures?


Where are all the dead folks? In the ground. The CDC estimates that through the beginning of October about 300,000 more people died this year than would have in a normal year. 200,000 deaths were Covid-19 related. The other 100,000 died because they didn’t get care for something else.


Excess Deaths - ( New Window )
I had a terrible reaction to the Shingles vaccine...  
BamaBlue : 10/26/2020 6:44 pm : link
the first shot went fine. When I went for my follow-up shot, I actually got shingles 2 days later. It started at my lips and worked in stages to my gums, tongue and inside of my mouth, then finally to the back of my throat. The pain was progressively worse and I couldn't eat normally for about 3 weeks. The best I could do was pack my mouth with gauze to reduce contact with my teeth and lips and rinse my mouth with salt water...

I understand this isn't a common reaction... lucky me.
RE: guys/gals  
section125 : 10/26/2020 6:44 pm : link
In comment 15025615 nyfootballfan said:
Quote:
do whatever you want, just trying to present some alternative views. its a free country, maybe for another week. i hope you are all so smug if this stuff becomes mandatory and you can't travel or work without it.


Actually, it sounds like anti-vaxxer gobblety goop. I apologize if I am misunderstanding you.

Yes diet and even simple exercise will help a lot and I would hope that is understood. Unfortunately even the very healthy need medicines like vaccinations because of all the virus and bacteria that have mutated to deadly and even those that have always been deadly.
Without getting to deep into it, even seriously healthy people die from flu and infections where vaccines would be a serious help.

And as people get older their systems do get weaker, so they need additional help that vaccination provides.

Yes obesity is a leading cause of heart disease and diabetes. Yes far less people would succumb to these if not 20+ pounds overweight through diet and exercise.

Yes a stronger immune system would reduce the effects of flues, but it does not prevent them.

I never got a flu shot until two or three years ago - I have no health issues but the doctor said it was time to start. But for less than $35 you can reduce symptoms or prevent it altogether. Unless you have allergies, there is very little down side. And in a year where COVID is knocking off mostly old and ill people, wouldn't you add a measure of protection. Yeah if your under 50, not a big deal I suppose.
RE: RE: RE: no thank you  
Bill L : 10/26/2020 7:19 pm : link
In comment 15025610 nyfootballfan said:
Quote:
In comment 15025585 Bill L said:


Quote:






It's funny...you're skeptical of the flu shot while I'm thinking that everything you listed to prevent the flu instead of the flu shot is pretty much new millenium snake oil.

Different strokes I guess.



you're about 5 millenia behind actually.
re supplement, lifestyle and treatment of root causes, there is a great deal of real science.
quality of products do vary. do your research.

Lol. I think I have done sufficient research. If all that stuff makes you generally more fit and healthy, then great. It it’s not going to make your immune system better and it’s certainly not going to supplant the effects or need for a flu shot.
RE: I had a terrible reaction to the Shingles vaccine...  
oghwga : 10/26/2020 7:20 pm : link
In comment 15025657 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
the first shot went fine. When I went for my follow-up shot, I actually got shingles 2 days later. It started at my lips and worked in stages to my gums, tongue and inside of my mouth, then finally to the back of my throat. The pain was progressively worse and I couldn't eat normally for about 3 weeks. The best I could do was pack my mouth with gauze to reduce contact with my teeth and lips and rinse my mouth with salt water...

I understand this isn't a common reaction... lucky me.



Damn you! Sorry you got sick but now you just ruined my follow up shot.
RE: Last flu shot I got was the 1975 Swine flu shot  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/26/2020 7:29 pm : link
In comment 15025650 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Was sick for 6 months afterward. Never again, baby.

FYI, never got the flu since then and with everyone wearing masks today gonna be a non-existent flu season anyway.


Yeah, because everyone is wearing a mask in Stanley's America...
RE: Yeah...  
Vanzetti : 10/26/2020 7:36 pm : link
In comment 15025202 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
Some people still won’t even wear a mask, they’re not getting a shot...


Dude, masks help prevent you from spreading the virus to others. They do not prevent you from getting the virus. So your analogy with the flu shot is completely wrong.

But probably you know that and you were just trying to politicize the thread
Vanzetti.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/26/2020 7:39 pm : link
I believe that masks also protect the wearer, as if you come into contact with someone who has it, but if you're wearing a mask, your symptoms won't be as severe if you catch it.
RE: RE: Yeah...  
UConn4523 : 10/26/2020 8:45 pm : link
In comment 15025707 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 15025202 Chris in Philly said:


Quote:


Some people still won’t even wear a mask, they’re not getting a shot...



Dude, masks help prevent you from spreading the virus to others. They do not prevent you from getting the virus. So your analogy with the flu shot is completely wrong.

But probably you know that and you were just trying to politicize the thread


Doesn’t sound political to me. People don’t want to be told what to do, it’s just that simple. Mask, shot, etc, makes no difference. And if wearing a mask prevents the spread how would that not also keep you from getting it, potentially?
Flu shot  
stretch234 : 10/26/2020 8:52 pm : link
Don’t have a choice. Since my auto immune disease which has no cure and has no reason for onset, dictates I need it. Despite all the infusions and other meds I have to have

I guess the specialists at Mass General and Johns Hopkins missed the boat on supplements
Anti-vaxxers are the most insane people on the planet  
Saquads26 : 10/26/2020 8:55 pm : link
And they get triggered so easily.
RE: RE: Yeah...  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/26/2020 11:34 pm : link
In comment 15025707 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 15025202 Chris in Philly said:


Quote:


Some people still won’t even wear a mask, they’re not getting a shot...



Dude, masks help prevent you from spreading the virus to others. They do not prevent you from getting the virus. So your analogy with the flu shot is completely wrong.

But probably you know that and you were just trying to politicize the thread


He brought up masks was to show the selfishness of our countrymen-- that people won't do somethign as inocuous as wearing a mask, so they won't do something more invasive as getting a flu shot.

It is also fair to compare both actions. Aside from the research suggesting that masks can reduce the viral load to the wearer (since Covid attaches to water droplets as well as aeresolizes) and theoretically reduce the severity of a Covid infection, its primary goal is to prevent the wearer from spreading the virus.

The flu vaccine has two goals-- protect someone from getting the flu, AND creating herd immunity to prevent spreading the flu to the most vulnurable who can't get the vaccine, and to generally prevent the spread of the flu since the vaccine isn't 100% effective.

On a separate note, that bringing up wearing masks to prevent the spread of the worst pandemic in 100 years is seen as "politicizing" a thread just shows how fucked we are as a country and how shamefully our country has responded and handled this virus. So many people who claim to love this country yet couldn't give two shits about their fellow Americans.

I have traveled to virtually every east coast state  
SomeFan : 10/27/2020 7:29 am : link
from Vermont to Florida during the time of the Covid. I have seen near 100% mask compliance in every store / business. Where is there non-compliance?
RE: I have traveled to virtually every east coast state  
giants#1 : 10/27/2020 7:46 am : link
In comment 15025909 SomeFan said:
Quote:
from Vermont to Florida during the time of the Covid. I have seen near 100% mask compliance in every store / business. Where is there non-compliance?


Outdoors (even in semi-crowded parks) many people don't wear masks, even in the North East.

Beyond that, many non-coastal regions of this country have shitty mask compliance (and often don't require them even indoors), hence their exploding case loads.
RE: RE: RE: Yeah...  
section125 : 10/27/2020 7:52 am : link
In comment 15025855 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:

The flu vaccine has two goals-- protect someone from getting the flu, AND creating herd immunity to prevent spreading the flu to the most vulnurable who can't get the vaccine, and to generally prevent the spread of the flu since the vaccine isn't 100% effective.




Agree you on with masks, but herd immunity is letting people spread the virus to allow natural antibodies to develop in the community and therefore eliminate the virus as life threatening and knowing that some will die.

Vaccines trick the immune system into building a natural defense against the disease by building antibodies. Vaccines use dead virus while herd immunity "uses" the virus itself.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Yeah...  
Bill L : 10/27/2020 8:04 am : link
In comment 15025921 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15025855 PaulBlakeTSU said:


Quote:



The flu vaccine has two goals-- protect someone from getting the flu, AND creating herd immunity to prevent spreading the flu to the most vulnurable who can't get the vaccine, and to generally prevent the spread of the flu since the vaccine isn't 100% effective.






Agree you on with masks, but herd immunity is letting people spread the virus to allow natural antibodies to develop in the community and therefore eliminate the virus as life threatening and knowing that some will die.

Vaccines trick the immune system into building a natural defense against the disease by building antibodies. Vaccines use dead virus while herd immunity "uses" the virus itself.


I'm pretty sure that herd immunity is simply getting enough people immune so that the virus will not be successfully transmitted. It does not have to be done through natural infection; a vaccine campaign that will also get the requisite number of people immune will also do the trick.

To a large extent, immune is immune, regardless of whether immunity is a consequence of infection or vaccine. There are some distinctions that are sometimes subtle and sometimes large. Those may be in the exact repertoire of antibodies elicited or they may be due to different modes of immunity that a stimulated (antibodies versus non-antibodies). But, the end goal is immunity either way.

Vaccines are not necessarily "dead" virus. They could be an inactive virus or it could be a live virus that is weakened or it could be a live virus that is not the "actual" virus but, rather, a closely related virus that does not cause illness. In fact, it may not be the virus at all but, instead, protein pieces of the virus or even just genetic material from the virus. But, so long as any of these induce immunity in enough people, then you can get herd immunity.
The herd immunity through spread of live virus, knoiwing some will die  
Bill L : 10/27/2020 8:07 am : link
is mostly an in vogue thing because of COVID where there is no vaccine. It was a flawed strategy that I believe was first suggested by some people in England as a way to burn SARS out. I think another country (maybe Sweden?) actually tried it, to their regret.
Herd immunity only works...  
x meadowlander : 10/27/2020 8:07 am : link
...if you know that permanent immunity to a given illness is a truth.

There is no proven truth to *permanent* immunity to Covid. There are multiple documented cases of individuals catching it more than once.
RE: Herd immunity only works...  
Bill L : 10/27/2020 8:09 am : link
In comment 15025930 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...if you know that permanent immunity to a given illness is a truth.

There is no proven truth to *permanent* immunity to Covid. There are multiple documented cases of individuals catching it more than once.


Really, really rare events which shouldn't impact herd immunity (if herd immunity was actually possible to achieve with COVID)
RE: The herd immunity through spread of live virus, knoiwing some will die  
section125 : 10/27/2020 8:10 am : link
In comment 15025928 Bill L said:
Quote:
is mostly an in vogue thing because of COVID where there is no vaccine. It was a flawed strategy that I believe was first suggested by some people in England as a way to burn SARS out. I think another country (maybe Sweden?) actually tried it, to their regret.


Not sure Sweden regrets it. They still seem to be for it....
RE: RE: The herd immunity through spread of live virus, knoiwing some will die  
Bill L : 10/27/2020 8:12 am : link
In comment 15025933 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15025928 Bill L said:


Quote:


is mostly an in vogue thing because of COVID where there is no vaccine. It was a flawed strategy that I believe was first suggested by some people in England as a way to burn SARS out. I think another country (maybe Sweden?) actually tried it, to their regret.



Not sure Sweden regrets it. They still seem to be for it....


Maybe so. Not sure it's a viable (NPI) thing though.
RE: RE: RE: The herd immunity through spread of live virus, knoiwing some will die  
section125 : 10/27/2020 8:30 am : link
In comment 15025936 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 15025933 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15025928 Bill L said:


Quote:


is mostly an in vogue thing because of COVID where there is no vaccine. It was a flawed strategy that I believe was first suggested by some people in England as a way to burn SARS out. I think another country (maybe Sweden?) actually tried it, to their regret.



Not sure Sweden regrets it. They still seem to be for it....



Maybe so. Not sure it's a viable (NPI) thing though.


I agree.

Getting back to herd immunity - while I agree that vaccination leads to reduced transmission and symptoms, I think the term herd immunity means letting the populace contract the disease and once it has spread through enough people they will no longer be able to transmit it, except to those who did not get it. Example is colds. IIRC there are nearly 250 different viruses that cause colds and once you get one, you will not get that particular cold again. I used to get 3 or 4 colds per year, cannot remember the last time I got one of any consequence. This virus is not like colds, although I read that there are strains of corona virus that cause colds and it is possible symptomless carriers have had a very similar corona virus that the body's immune system has antibodies for that suppresses covid-19. IDK if that is true or a theory or BS.
Re: Sweden  
NYerInMA : 10/27/2020 9:54 am : link
The "herd immunity" strategy has not worked for them, and they apparently are more concerned about "avoiding panic" than saving people by requiring mask usage, according to this Time report.
The Swedish COVID-19 Response Is a Disaster. It Shouldn’t Be a Model for the Rest of the World - ( New Window )
The problem  
pjcas18 : 10/27/2020 10:03 am : link
with "Sweden is a disaster" is that it's maybe not quite how the Swedish view it. They never shut down.

People will criticize these graphs, and try and qualify things a certain way, but at the end of the day I just don't trust any media source right now not to politicize this pandemic and to focus on the most negative and fear mongering aspect and I feel like they deserve that.



Thanks for the  
section125 : 10/27/2020 10:09 am : link
graphs pjcas18
RE: Flu shot  
nyfootballfan : 10/27/2020 10:20 am : link
In comment 15025760 stretch234 said:
Quote:
Don’t have a choice. Since my auto immune disease which has no cure and has no reason for onset, dictates I need it. Despite all the infusions and other meds I have to have

I guess the specialists at Mass General and Johns Hopkins missed the boat on supplements

truly sorry for your health issues. There are certainly extenuating circumstances where a lot of intervention for certain people is called for.
As for chronic diseases and seasonal outbreaks, along with side effect risk and medical errors, I stand by my view that lifestyle and diet will go a great way towards reducing lots of suffering and economic cost in this country.
We are exposed to a great deal of toxicity in our modern world from chemicals and pollutants along with processed foods.
Creating a healthy environment in our body is important in keeping long-term well being. The right supplementation can help. If I sound like a nut to some of you so be it, I wish you all the best.
RE: The problem  
giants#1 : 10/27/2020 10:24 am : link
In comment 15026040 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
with "Sweden is a disaster" is that it's maybe not quite how the Swedish view it. They never shut down.

People will criticize these graphs, and try and qualify things a certain way, but at the end of the day I just don't trust any media source right now not to politicize this pandemic and to focus on the most negative and fear mongering aspect and I feel like they deserve that.



Do you have charts comparing Sweden's closest neighbors?
Sweden had policies in place since the beginning  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/27/2020 10:39 am : link
they didn't lock down, but they limited gatherings to 50 people and they prevented people from visiting nursing homes. It wasn't a complete free for all. They also intentionally conducted far less testing (which reduces number of confirmed cases but has no impact on actual spread).

More than that, the reason the US couldn't adopt the Sweden model is because Americans don't trust their government or authorities the way that Swedes do. Even with the hands-off approach, most Swedes stayed home, minimized unnecessary social gatherings, and exercised social distancing because they "conform."

Sweden has had lower cases, but their overall death rates rival the United States, which is disastrous. Also, I believe that the United States is considered to be a far less healthy country compared with Sweden, and so I would imagine that comorbidities and underlying ailments would cause even higher rates of death in the US if they took the herd immunity approach.

There is now a massive split within Sweden as to whether to tighten up restrictions or continue as is.

RE: RE: RE: RE: The herd immunity through spread of live virus, knoiwing some will die  
Bill L : 10/27/2020 10:58 am : link
In comment 15025940 section125 said:
Quote:




I agree.

Getting back to herd immunity - while I agree that vaccination leads to reduced transmission and symptoms, I think the term herd immunity means letting the populace contract the disease and once it has spread through enough people they will no longer be able to transmit it, except to those who did not get it. Example is colds. IIRC there are nearly 250 different viruses that cause colds and once you get one, you will not get that particular cold again. I used to get 3 or 4 colds per year, cannot remember the last time I got one of any consequence. This virus is not like colds, although I read that there are strains of corona virus that cause colds and it is possible symptomless carriers have had a very similar corona virus that the body's immune system has antibodies for that suppresses covid-19. IDK if that is true or a theory or BS.


There are 7 different coronaviruses that infect humans. Three of them cause severe disease (SARS, SARS-2, MERS) and the other 4 cause mild cold-type diseases. Antibodies to the 4 "common" coronaviruses don't react with COV-2, so they don't suppress or enhance COVID-19. However infection with those common coronaviruses do lead to the production of cells called T cells and some of those T cells do react with CoV-2 and may offer some protection (or some exacerbation) for COVID-19.
RE: RE: Flu shot  
TyreeHelmet : 10/27/2020 2:47 pm : link
In comment 15026070 nyfootballfan said:
Quote:
In comment 15025760 stretch234 said:


Quote:


Don’t have a choice. Since my auto immune disease which has no cure and has no reason for onset, dictates I need it. Despite all the infusions and other meds I have to have

I guess the specialists at Mass General and Johns Hopkins missed the boat on supplements


truly sorry for your health issues. There are certainly extenuating circumstances where a lot of intervention for certain people is called for.
As for chronic diseases and seasonal outbreaks, along with side effect risk and medical errors, I stand by my view that lifestyle and diet will go a great way towards reducing lots of suffering and economic cost in this country.
We are exposed to a great deal of toxicity in our modern world from chemicals and pollutants along with processed foods.
Creating a healthy environment in our body is important in keeping long-term well being. The right supplementation can help. If I sound like a nut to some of you so be it, I wish you all the best.


I'm not trying to attack you and ask this with respect, but why can't vaccines be used in conjunction with healthy lifestyles? Do you believe there are health risks involved with vaccines that outweigh the immunities they provide? Nothing is perfect, but vaccines are one of the best tools we have to combat disease. I'm genuinely curious to understand your mindset because you are clearly not alone on this.

Lastly, no amount of supplements can even approach what a vaccine can provide in protection.
T cell immunity is the wild card  
WideRight : 10/27/2020 2:57 pm : link
How many people have T cell immunity from prior coronaviruses? This is important because it lowers the total number of infections needed to reach herd immunity.

Does anyone know?
World class athletes  
UConn4523 : 10/27/2020 2:58 pm : link
with top of the line training, nutrition and medical care get the flu every year.

Explain how that works?
For those  
River Mike : 10/27/2020 3:29 pm : link
who think the whole flu vaccination thing is about Pharma making money, you're barking up the wrong tree. Vaccines are so unprofitable that the government has to cajole and offer protections and incentives to get companies to make them.
RE: T cell immunity is the wild card  
Jim in Fairfax : 10/27/2020 4:02 pm : link
In comment 15026341 WideRight said:
Quote:
How many people have T cell immunity from prior coronaviruses? This is important because it lowers the total number of infections needed to reach herd immunity.

Does anyone know?

There’s no data for that. And it’s not clear that it would be relevant anyway.

There have only been limited studies on coronavirus immunity, so no ironclad statements can be made. But the limited data they have has lead researchers to believe that there’s a good likelihood that coronavirus immunity wears off.
I wonder what the adoption rate  
UConn4523 : 10/27/2020 4:12 pm : link
will be for the COVID vaccine. Right now the Flu Shot's adoption rate in the US s a hair under 50% for all those over 6 months of age. Most people I talk to will either not be getting the COVID vaccine or will wait an undetermined amount of time before doing so. I feel like 25% is a stretch but I could be completely off base there.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The herd immunity through spread of live virus, knoiwing some will die  
section125 : 10/27/2020 4:25 pm : link
In comment 15026106 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 15025940 section125 said:


Quote:






I agree.

Getting back to herd immunity - while I agree that vaccination leads to reduced transmission and symptoms, I think the term herd immunity means letting the populace contract the disease and once it has spread through enough people they will no longer be able to transmit it, except to those who did not get it. Example is colds. IIRC there are nearly 250 different viruses that cause colds and once you get one, you will not get that particular cold again. I used to get 3 or 4 colds per year, cannot remember the last time I got one of any consequence. This virus is not like colds, although I read that there are strains of corona virus that cause colds and it is possible symptomless carriers have had a very similar corona virus that the body's immune system has antibodies for that suppresses covid-19. IDK if that is true or a theory or BS.



There are 7 different coronaviruses that infect humans. Three of them cause severe disease (SARS, SARS-2, MERS) and the other 4 cause mild cold-type diseases. Antibodies to the 4 "common" coronaviruses don't react with COV-2, so they don't suppress or enhance COVID-19. However infection with those common coronaviruses do lead to the production of cells called T cells and some of those T cells do react with CoV-2 and may offer some protection (or some exacerbation) for COVID-19.


Thanks for clarifying. That was what I was wondering - I actually thought there were more than 4 covids that caused colds. But Yes, I was wondering if previous contact with those cold causing viruses could reduce the effects of Covid-19. Maybe it does.
RE: RE: RE: Flu shot  
nyfootballfan : 10/27/2020 4:25 pm : link
In comment 15026335 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 15026070 nyfootballfan said:


Quote:


In comment 15025760 stretch234 said:


Quote:


Don’t have a choice. Since my auto immune disease which has no cure and has no reason for onset, dictates I need it. Despite all the infusions and other meds I have to have

I guess the specialists at Mass General and Johns Hopkins missed the boat on supplements


truly sorry for your health issues. There are certainly extenuating circumstances where a lot of intervention for certain people is called for.
As for chronic diseases and seasonal outbreaks, along with side effect risk and medical errors, I stand by my view that lifestyle and diet will go a great way towards reducing lots of suffering and economic cost in this country.
We are exposed to a great deal of toxicity in our modern world from chemicals and pollutants along with processed foods.
Creating a healthy environment in our body is important in keeping long-term well being. The right supplementation can help. If I sound like a nut to some of you so be it, I wish you all the best.



I'm not trying to attack you and ask this with respect, but why can't vaccines be used in conjunction with healthy lifestyles? Do you believe there are health risks involved with vaccines that outweigh the immunities they provide? Nothing is perfect, but vaccines are one of the best tools we have to combat disease. I'm genuinely curious to understand your mindset because you are clearly not alone on this.

Lastly, no amount of supplements can even approach what a vaccine can provide in protection.


i'm not against any and all vaccines. sure, they are appropriate in certain circumstances, but i would hope people approach their medical care with eyes open. i have seen first hand in my family the effects of poor lifestyle and the complete reliance on doctors and drugs to manage preventable
chronic illness and then a spiral of complications resulting from same.
and it's unfair to label people as 'anti vax' for exercising some critical thinking.
have you seen the constant TV drug ads for every conceivable condition? new powerful drugs hit the market constantly. is there not a possible conflict of interest to consider?
what are the cumulative effects of one or more newly-formulated vaccinations annually over 2-3 decades? are rapid advances in gene technology risking outcomes we can't predict?
my personal approach is reduce toxins through non-medical means and maximize my resistance to, and thus minimize the effects of, any threat, and live the best quality life for the longest time. i respect other's decisions and i hope we will still have the choice to self determine. best to you.
There is a big difference  
pjcas18 : 10/27/2020 4:40 pm : link
between drugs for personal conditions like restless leg syndrome or ulcerative colitis or even depression (like you see so often on TV) and a vaccine for infectious disease which I never see on TV. The only vaccine i see on TV is for HPV and in that case - critical think away.

none of those personal conditions are contagious and you taking those drugs or not has no bearing on others outside your family (directly).

Deciding not to take a vaccine in favor of eating well, taking supplements and praying is not a well researched opinion.

Critical thinking should be applauded but sometimes occam's razor can save you some time.

RE: RE: T cell immunity is the wild card  
WideRight : 10/27/2020 4:50 pm : link
In comment 15026401 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 15026341 WideRight said:


Quote:


How many people have T cell immunity from prior coronaviruses? This is important because it lowers the total number of infections needed to reach herd immunity.

Does anyone know?


There’s no data for that. And it’s not clear that it would be relevant anyway.

There have only been limited studies on coronavirus immunity, so no ironclad statements can be made. But the limited data they have has lead researchers to believe that there’s a good likelihood that coronavirus immunity wears off.


Oops! There is data. From the British medical Journal. You're correct that no ironclad statements can be made. And T-cell immunity doesn't wear off. I should have looked before I posted
Data on T-cell immunity - ( New Window )
I took my kids for their flu shots  
Les in TO : 10/27/2020 4:51 pm : link
Younger guy took it like a champ. My older daughter refused. Lesson learned : don’t surprise older kids, especially sensitive ones. Give them lead time.
RE: There is a big difference  
nyfootballfan : 10/27/2020 4:56 pm : link
In comment 15026442 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
between drugs for personal conditions like restless leg syndrome or ulcerative colitis or even depression (like you see so often on TV) and a vaccine for infectious disease which I never see on TV. The only vaccine i see on TV is for HPV and in that case - critical think away.

none of those personal conditions are contagious and you taking those drugs or not has no bearing on others outside your family (directly).

Deciding not to take a vaccine in favor of eating well, taking supplements and praying is not a well researched opinion.

Critical thinking should be applauded but sometimes occam's razor can save you some time.

thankfully i haven't had anything like a flu for many years and i never took a shot, and i decline to take one now. i don't "pray" not to get the flu. i used it as an one example of means to de-stress, do whatever the fuck you want. and i don't need to be fucking lectured about how to protect mine or anyone else's family. really, i tried to be nice.

RE: RE: T cell immunity is the wild card  
Bill L : 10/27/2020 5:03 pm : link
In comment 15026401 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 15026341 WideRight said:


Quote:


How many people have T cell immunity from prior coronaviruses? This is important because it lowers the total number of infections needed to reach herd immunity.

Does anyone know?


There’s no data for that. And it’s not clear that it would be relevant anyway.

There have only been limited studies on coronavirus immunity, so no ironclad statements can be made. But the limited data they have has lead researchers to believe that there’s a good likelihood that coronavirus immunity wears off.

Some recent studies suggest that antibody levels recede sooner than expected. I’m not sure that means that immunity wears off. Like you said (maybe not about this but still appropriate) there’s no data for that.
RE: RE: There is a big difference  
Bill L : 10/27/2020 5:08 pm : link
In comment 15026460 nyfootballfan said:
Quote:
In comment 15026442 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


between drugs for personal conditions like restless leg syndrome or ulcerative colitis or even depression (like you see so often on TV) and a vaccine for infectious disease which I never see on TV. The only vaccine i see on TV is for HPV and in that case - critical think away.

none of those personal conditions are contagious and you taking those drugs or not has no bearing on others outside your family (directly).

Deciding not to take a vaccine in favor of eating well, taking supplements and praying is not a well researched opinion.

Critical thinking should be applauded but sometimes occam's razor can save you some time.



thankfully i haven't had anything like a flu for many years and i never took a shot, and i decline to take one now. i don't "pray" not to get the flu. i used it as an one example of means to de-stress, do whatever the fuck you want. and i don't need to be fucking lectured about how to protect mine or anyone else's family. really, i tried to be nice.

I guess, Like for most things in a free country, you can do whatever you want. But choose for yourself and take
Your own advice. Beyond saying being healthy is generally better than not, being healthy, don’t pitch anything but actually
Medicine (or in this case vaccination) as being anything other than emotionally comforting as opposed to being an actual flu
Preventative. Purveying Misinformation does or should fall on the list of things not to do whatever the hell you want.

IMO

From the CDC  
TyreeHelmet : 10/27/2020 5:09 pm : link
"Getting vaccinated yourself may also protect people around you, including those who are more vulnerable to serious flu illness, like babies and young children, older people, and people with certain chronic health conditions.Despite the many benefits offered by flu vaccination, only about half of Americans get an annual flu vaccine and flu continues to cause millions of illnesses, hundreds of thousands of hospitalizations and tens of thousands of deaths. Many more people could be protected from flu if more people got vaccinated."

I think the messaging on flu vaccines has been really poorly promoted. It's not all about you. It can help lessen the severity and prevent the spread to at risk people- particularly young children who cannot get it. Not to be too dramatic but it can literally save babies and young childrens lives.

For the life of me I will never understand people's steadfast refusal to get it.
RE: From the CDC  
Les in TO : 10/27/2020 5:13 pm : link
In comment 15026473 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:


For the life of me I will never understand people's steadfast refusal to get it.
Selfishness, laziness, avoiding an unpleasant experience and vulnerability to conspiracy theories
RE: RE: From the CDC  
Bill L : 10/27/2020 5:17 pm : link
In comment 15026476 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 15026473 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:




For the life of me I will never understand people's steadfast refusal to get it.

Selfishness, laziness, avoiding an unpleasant experience and vulnerability to conspiracy theories

And don’t forget the Autism . Nobody wants to get the Autism
.
"really, I tried to be nice"  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/27/2020 5:20 pm : link
there is nothign nice about spreading anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories.

I agree with you that we have a health crisis in this country. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease, you name it. It's shameful. But you're creating a false choice. We can live well AND get the flu vaccine to prevent infection, mitigate the contagion, and protect vulnerable people. They are not mutually exclusive.

And spouting anti-vaxxer tropes that losing weight/exercising is all you need to do to stop the flu, and parroting lies about vaccines being a Big Pharma profit scheme do not help anyone. All it does now is spreads two things: disinformation AND the flu.

RE: RE: The problem  
pjcas18 : 10/27/2020 5:23 pm : link
In comment 15026079 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15026040 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


with "Sweden is a disaster" is that it's maybe not quite how the Swedish view it. They never shut down.

People will criticize these graphs, and try and qualify things a certain way, but at the end of the day I just don't trust any media source right now not to politicize this pandemic and to focus on the most negative and fear mongering aspect and I feel like they deserve that.





Do you have charts comparing Sweden's closest neighbors?


This one has Denmark. I haven't seen Norway or Finland or anywhere else in Scandinavia. Not sure how relevant though since I'm not clear on what measures those other countries took.

RE:  
section125 : 10/27/2020 5:35 pm : link
In comment 15026488 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
there is nothign nice about spreading anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories.

I agree with you that we have a health crisis in this country. Obesity, diabetes, heart disease, you name it. It's shameful. But you're creating a false choice. We can live well AND get the flu vaccine to prevent infection, mitigate the contagion, and protect vulnerable people. They are not mutually exclusive.

And spouting anti-vaxxer tropes that losing weight/exercising is all you need to do to stop the flu, and parroting lies about vaccines being a Big Pharma profit scheme do not help anyone. All it does now is spreads two things: disinformation AND the flu.


Bravo. Some of you have more patience than I do. I tuned out earlier. Some battles are left unfought. My blood pressure might go up and then my recliner might give me the flu.
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