Got mine this morning. This is my annual thread telling people to do so. I know this year is more complicated but maximize your chance to stay healthy.
will also help with tracking and containing Covid and preventing false reactions on both ends.
If there's also the seasonal flu going around, there will be people getting symptoms that they may confuse with Covid and overwhelm hospitals for common flu treatment.
Conversely, there may also be people who have Covid, didn't get the flu shot, and just chalk up their symptoms to the flu and not Covid.
I would recommend everyone getting it, that hasn't. You're witnessing/living through what happens when a foreign entity engineers deadly viruses in labs. Imagine the damage they could do by reintroducing Smallpox to a world that no longer vaccinates for it.
so frustrating to hear people parrot this flu shot bs.
this is a cash cow as is the cv testing scam.
huge markups to medicare.
plus they are winging it every year.
who recalls pre cv there were two flu vax?
questionable ingredients to boot.
support your natural immune system
plenty of free info out there
supplements
clean food
hydrate
exercise
hit the salad bar, lose 20.
de-stress if you can, pray, meditate, vibrate, whatever.
so frustrating to hear people parrot this flu shot bs.
this is a cash cow as is the cv testing scam.
huge markups to medicare.
plus they are winging it every year.
who recalls pre cv there were two flu vax?
questionable ingredients to boot.
support your natural immune system
plenty of free info out there
supplements
clean food
hydrate
exercise
hit the salad bar, lose 20.
de-stress if you can, pray, meditate, vibrate, whatever.
Just to be clear- you think people are advised by medical professional to get the flu shot because it is "cash cow". I find it funny and sad to hear people discuss big pharma who know nothing about their business.
If Pharma wanted to make more money nobody would make a flu vaccine. And producing the flu vaccine is not very profitable if at all.
Boggles my mind how people view such an effective method to keeping the population healthy.
Just to be clear- you think people are advised by medical professional to get the flu shot because it is "cash cow". I find it funny and sad to hear people discuss big pharma who know nothing about their business.
If Pharma wanted to make more money nobody would make a flu vaccine. And producing the flu vaccine is not very profitable if at all.
Boggles my mind how people view such an effective method to keeping the population healthy. [/quote]
clearly, injecting the populace on a continuing basis with a continuing variety of substances with an average efficacy rate well below 50% does not appear to be quite so "effective", nor without risk.
also boggles my mind that your mind is boggled by the obvious fact that (bow our heads) "medical professionals" are not overprescribing meds and procedures for huge bank.
another fun fact: hospitals losing $300 Billion from covid related shutdowns.
where are all the dead folks from these cancelled, but ostensibly necessary, procedures?
https://revcycleintelligence.com/news/aha-projects-323b-in-covid-19-hospital-financial-losses-in-2020
look i know docs, nurses and staff as a rule have integrity but people need to approach their healthcare with eyes open.
cheers.
Just to be clear- you think people are advised by medical professional to get the flu shot because it is "cash cow". I find it funny and sad to hear people discuss big pharma who know nothing about their business.
If Pharma wanted to make more money nobody would make a flu vaccine. And producing the flu vaccine is not very profitable if at all.
Boggles my mind how people view such an effective method to keeping the population healthy.
clearly, injecting the populace on a continuing basis with a continuing variety of substances with an average efficacy rate well below 50% does not appear to be quite so "effective", nor without risk.
also boggles my mind that your mind is boggled by the obvious fact that (bow our heads) "medical professionals" are not overprescribing meds and procedures for huge bank.
another fun fact: hospitals losing $300 Billion from covid related shutdowns.
where are all the dead folks from these cancelled, but ostensibly necessary, procedures?
https://revcycleintelligence.com/news/aha-projects-323b-in-covid-19-hospital-financial-losses-in-2020
look i know docs, nurses and staff as a rule have integrity but people need to approach their healthcare with eyes open.
cheers. [/quote]
Got the first shingrex too. I am terrified of the shingles so I'm glad I aged into the vaccine.
Wish I would have gone on facebook first to find out about how vaccines don't work and it's all a scam but too late now I've made big pharma rich and now I'm autistic.
so frustrating to hear people parrot this flu shot bs.
this is a cash cow as is the cv testing scam.
huge markups to medicare.
plus they are winging it every year.
who recalls pre cv there were two flu vax?
questionable ingredients to boot.
support your natural immune system
plenty of free info out there
supplements
clean food
hydrate
exercise
hit the salad bar, lose 20.
de-stress if you can, pray, meditate, vibrate, whatever.
It's funny...you're skeptical of the flu shot while I'm thinking that everything you listed to prevent the flu instead of the flu shot is pretty much new millenium snake oil.
are among the least profitable products that pharma companies make. It’s why some companies have gotten out of the vaccine business entirely.
Supplements? Yes, unregulated concoctions of whatever that can be produced by whoever are a much better option. Talk about cash cows. There’s a reason there’s entire aisles of them by a dozen companies in every pharmacy.
It's funny...you're skeptical of the flu shot while I'm thinking that everything you listed to prevent the flu instead of the flu shot is pretty much new millenium snake oil.
Different strokes I guess.
you're about 5 millenia behind actually.
re supplement, lifestyle and treatment of root causes, there is a great deal of real science.
quality of products do vary. do your research.
do whatever you want, just trying to present some alternative views. its a free country, maybe for another week. i hope you are all so smug if this stuff becomes mandatory and you can't travel or work without it.
are among the least profitable products that pharma companies make. It’s why some companies have gotten out of the vaccine business entirely.
Supplements? Yes, unregulated concoctions of whatever that can be produced by whoever are a much better option. Talk about cash cows. There’s a reason there’s entire aisles of them by a dozen companies in every pharmacy.
Thank you and so true. I'm a physician and it kills me when patients bring in all of their supplements which when added up amount to a far, far higher cost than proven medications and treatments per month. Oh, and those supplements typically have zero studies to prove efficacy except their company nonsense and anecdotal tales. People are very gullible and hate listening to experts in this country.
you all jumped on the word "supplements" but none of the replies concern lifestyle adjustments i mentioned?
nobody hears about it in the media either btw. since day 1.
i'm truly sorry that so many feel scared and helpless and put their dependence on one method alone for their health. trying to sign of with a good wish each post, but the level of hostility i have received is a pretty good tell that i hit a nerve. regards.
another fun fact: hospitals losing $300 Billion from covid related shutdowns.
where are all the dead folks from these cancelled, but ostensibly necessary, procedures?
Where are all the dead folks? In the ground. The CDC estimates that through the beginning of October about 300,000 more people died this year than would have in a normal year. 200,000 deaths were Covid-19 related. The other 100,000 died because they didn’t get care for something else.
the first shot went fine. When I went for my follow-up shot, I actually got shingles 2 days later. It started at my lips and worked in stages to my gums, tongue and inside of my mouth, then finally to the back of my throat. The pain was progressively worse and I couldn't eat normally for about 3 weeks. The best I could do was pack my mouth with gauze to reduce contact with my teeth and lips and rinse my mouth with salt water...
I understand this isn't a common reaction... lucky me.
do whatever you want, just trying to present some alternative views. its a free country, maybe for another week. i hope you are all so smug if this stuff becomes mandatory and you can't travel or work without it.
Actually, it sounds like anti-vaxxer gobblety goop. I apologize if I am misunderstanding you.
Yes diet and even simple exercise will help a lot and I would hope that is understood. Unfortunately even the very healthy need medicines like vaccinations because of all the virus and bacteria that have mutated to deadly and even those that have always been deadly.
Without getting to deep into it, even seriously healthy people die from flu and infections where vaccines would be a serious help.
And as people get older their systems do get weaker, so they need additional help that vaccination provides.
Yes obesity is a leading cause of heart disease and diabetes. Yes far less people would succumb to these if not 20+ pounds overweight through diet and exercise.
Yes a stronger immune system would reduce the effects of flues, but it does not prevent them.
I never got a flu shot until two or three years ago - I have no health issues but the doctor said it was time to start. But for less than $35 you can reduce symptoms or prevent it altogether. Unless you have allergies, there is very little down side. And in a year where COVID is knocking off mostly old and ill people, wouldn't you add a measure of protection. Yeah if your under 50, not a big deal I suppose.
It's funny...you're skeptical of the flu shot while I'm thinking that everything you listed to prevent the flu instead of the flu shot is pretty much new millenium snake oil.
Different strokes I guess.
you're about 5 millenia behind actually.
re supplement, lifestyle and treatment of root causes, there is a great deal of real science.
quality of products do vary. do your research.
Lol. I think I have done sufficient research. If all that stuff makes you generally more fit and healthy, then great. It it’s not going to make your immune system better and it’s certainly not going to supplant the effects or need for a flu shot.
RE: I had a terrible reaction to the Shingles vaccine...
the first shot went fine. When I went for my follow-up shot, I actually got shingles 2 days later. It started at my lips and worked in stages to my gums, tongue and inside of my mouth, then finally to the back of my throat. The pain was progressively worse and I couldn't eat normally for about 3 weeks. The best I could do was pack my mouth with gauze to reduce contact with my teeth and lips and rinse my mouth with salt water...
I understand this isn't a common reaction... lucky me.
Damn you! Sorry you got sick but now you just ruined my follow up shot.
RE: Last flu shot I got was the 1975 Swine flu shot
Some people still won’t even wear a mask, they’re not getting a shot...
Dude, masks help prevent you from spreading the virus to others. They do not prevent you from getting the virus. So your analogy with the flu shot is completely wrong.
But probably you know that and you were just trying to politicize the thread
I believe that masks also protect the wearer, as if you come into contact with someone who has it, but if you're wearing a mask, your symptoms won't be as severe if you catch it.
Some people still won’t even wear a mask, they’re not getting a shot...
Dude, masks help prevent you from spreading the virus to others. They do not prevent you from getting the virus. So your analogy with the flu shot is completely wrong.
But probably you know that and you were just trying to politicize the thread
Doesn’t sound political to me. People don’t want to be told what to do, it’s just that simple. Mask, shot, etc, makes no difference. And if wearing a mask prevents the spread how would that not also keep you from getting it, potentially?
Don’t have a choice. Since my auto immune disease which has no cure and has no reason for onset, dictates I need it. Despite all the infusions and other meds I have to have
I guess the specialists at Mass General and Johns Hopkins missed the boat on supplements
Anti-vaxxers are the most insane people on the planet
Some people still won’t even wear a mask, they’re not getting a shot...
Dude, masks help prevent you from spreading the virus to others. They do not prevent you from getting the virus. So your analogy with the flu shot is completely wrong.
But probably you know that and you were just trying to politicize the thread
He brought up masks was to show the selfishness of our countrymen-- that people won't do somethign as inocuous as wearing a mask, so they won't do something more invasive as getting a flu shot.
It is also fair to compare both actions. Aside from the research suggesting that masks can reduce the viral load to the wearer (since Covid attaches to water droplets as well as aeresolizes) and theoretically reduce the severity of a Covid infection, its primary goal is to prevent the wearer from spreading the virus.
The flu vaccine has two goals-- protect someone from getting the flu, AND creating herd immunity to prevent spreading the flu to the most vulnurable who can't get the vaccine, and to generally prevent the spread of the flu since the vaccine isn't 100% effective.
On a separate note, that bringing up wearing masks to prevent the spread of the worst pandemic in 100 years is seen as "politicizing" a thread just shows how fucked we are as a country and how shamefully our country has responded and handled this virus. So many people who claim to love this country yet couldn't give two shits about their fellow Americans.
I have traveled to virtually every east coast state
from Vermont to Florida during the time of the Covid. I have seen near 100% mask compliance in every store / business. Where is there non-compliance?
Outdoors (even in semi-crowded parks) many people don't wear masks, even in the North East.
Beyond that, many non-coastal regions of this country have shitty mask compliance (and often don't require them even indoors), hence their exploding case loads.
The flu vaccine has two goals-- protect someone from getting the flu, AND creating herd immunity to prevent spreading the flu to the most vulnurable who can't get the vaccine, and to generally prevent the spread of the flu since the vaccine isn't 100% effective.
Agree you on with masks, but herd immunity is letting people spread the virus to allow natural antibodies to develop in the community and therefore eliminate the virus as life threatening and knowing that some will die.
Vaccines trick the immune system into building a natural defense against the disease by building antibodies. Vaccines use dead virus while herd immunity "uses" the virus itself.
The flu vaccine has two goals-- protect someone from getting the flu, AND creating herd immunity to prevent spreading the flu to the most vulnurable who can't get the vaccine, and to generally prevent the spread of the flu since the vaccine isn't 100% effective.
Agree you on with masks, but herd immunity is letting people spread the virus to allow natural antibodies to develop in the community and therefore eliminate the virus as life threatening and knowing that some will die.
Vaccines trick the immune system into building a natural defense against the disease by building antibodies. Vaccines use dead virus while herd immunity "uses" the virus itself.
I'm pretty sure that herd immunity is simply getting enough people immune so that the virus will not be successfully transmitted. It does not have to be done through natural infection; a vaccine campaign that will also get the requisite number of people immune will also do the trick.
To a large extent, immune is immune, regardless of whether immunity is a consequence of infection or vaccine. There are some distinctions that are sometimes subtle and sometimes large. Those may be in the exact repertoire of antibodies elicited or they may be due to different modes of immunity that a stimulated (antibodies versus non-antibodies). But, the end goal is immunity either way.
Vaccines are not necessarily "dead" virus. They could be an inactive virus or it could be a live virus that is weakened or it could be a live virus that is not the "actual" virus but, rather, a closely related virus that does not cause illness. In fact, it may not be the virus at all but, instead, protein pieces of the virus or even just genetic material from the virus. But, so long as any of these induce immunity in enough people, then you can get herd immunity.
The herd immunity through spread of live virus, knoiwing some will die
is mostly an in vogue thing because of COVID where there is no vaccine. It was a flawed strategy that I believe was first suggested by some people in England as a way to burn SARS out. I think another country (maybe Sweden?) actually tried it, to their regret.
is mostly an in vogue thing because of COVID where there is no vaccine. It was a flawed strategy that I believe was first suggested by some people in England as a way to burn SARS out. I think another country (maybe Sweden?) actually tried it, to their regret.
Not sure Sweden regrets it. They still seem to be for it....
RE: RE: The herd immunity through spread of live virus, knoiwing some will die
is mostly an in vogue thing because of COVID where there is no vaccine. It was a flawed strategy that I believe was first suggested by some people in England as a way to burn SARS out. I think another country (maybe Sweden?) actually tried it, to their regret.
Not sure Sweden regrets it. They still seem to be for it....
Maybe so. Not sure it's a viable (NPI) thing though.
RE: RE: RE: The herd immunity through spread of live virus, knoiwing some will die
is mostly an in vogue thing because of COVID where there is no vaccine. It was a flawed strategy that I believe was first suggested by some people in England as a way to burn SARS out. I think another country (maybe Sweden?) actually tried it, to their regret.
Not sure Sweden regrets it. They still seem to be for it....
Maybe so. Not sure it's a viable (NPI) thing though.
I agree.
Getting back to herd immunity - while I agree that vaccination leads to reduced transmission and symptoms, I think the term herd immunity means letting the populace contract the disease and once it has spread through enough people they will no longer be able to transmit it, except to those who did not get it. Example is colds. IIRC there are nearly 250 different viruses that cause colds and once you get one, you will not get that particular cold again. I used to get 3 or 4 colds per year, cannot remember the last time I got one of any consequence. This virus is not like colds, although I read that there are strains of corona virus that cause colds and it is possible symptomless carriers have had a very similar corona virus that the body's immune system has antibodies for that suppresses covid-19. IDK if that is true or a theory or BS.
with "Sweden is a disaster" is that it's maybe not quite how the Swedish view it. They never shut down.
People will criticize these graphs, and try and qualify things a certain way, but at the end of the day I just don't trust any media source right now not to politicize this pandemic and to focus on the most negative and fear mongering aspect and I feel like they deserve that.
Don’t have a choice. Since my auto immune disease which has no cure and has no reason for onset, dictates I need it. Despite all the infusions and other meds I have to have
I guess the specialists at Mass General and Johns Hopkins missed the boat on supplements
truly sorry for your health issues. There are certainly extenuating circumstances where a lot of intervention for certain people is called for.
As for chronic diseases and seasonal outbreaks, along with side effect risk and medical errors, I stand by my view that lifestyle and diet will go a great way towards reducing lots of suffering and economic cost in this country.
We are exposed to a great deal of toxicity in our modern world from chemicals and pollutants along with processed foods.
Creating a healthy environment in our body is important in keeping long-term well being. The right supplementation can help. If I sound like a nut to some of you so be it, I wish you all the best.
with "Sweden is a disaster" is that it's maybe not quite how the Swedish view it. They never shut down.
People will criticize these graphs, and try and qualify things a certain way, but at the end of the day I just don't trust any media source right now not to politicize this pandemic and to focus on the most negative and fear mongering aspect and I feel like they deserve that.
Do you have charts comparing Sweden's closest neighbors?
they didn't lock down, but they limited gatherings to 50 people and they prevented people from visiting nursing homes. It wasn't a complete free for all. They also intentionally conducted far less testing (which reduces number of confirmed cases but has no impact on actual spread).
More than that, the reason the US couldn't adopt the Sweden model is because Americans don't trust their government or authorities the way that Swedes do. Even with the hands-off approach, most Swedes stayed home, minimized unnecessary social gatherings, and exercised social distancing because they "conform."
Sweden has had lower cases, but their overall death rates rival the United States, which is disastrous. Also, I believe that the United States is considered to be a far less healthy country compared with Sweden, and so I would imagine that comorbidities and underlying ailments would cause even higher rates of death in the US if they took the herd immunity approach.
There is now a massive split within Sweden as to whether to tighten up restrictions or continue as is.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The herd immunity through spread of live virus, knoiwing some will die
Getting back to herd immunity - while I agree that vaccination leads to reduced transmission and symptoms, I think the term herd immunity means letting the populace contract the disease and once it has spread through enough people they will no longer be able to transmit it, except to those who did not get it. Example is colds. IIRC there are nearly 250 different viruses that cause colds and once you get one, you will not get that particular cold again. I used to get 3 or 4 colds per year, cannot remember the last time I got one of any consequence. This virus is not like colds, although I read that there are strains of corona virus that cause colds and it is possible symptomless carriers have had a very similar corona virus that the body's immune system has antibodies for that suppresses covid-19. IDK if that is true or a theory or BS.
There are 7 different coronaviruses that infect humans. Three of them cause severe disease (SARS, SARS-2, MERS) and the other 4 cause mild cold-type diseases. Antibodies to the 4 "common" coronaviruses don't react with COV-2, so they don't suppress or enhance COVID-19. However infection with those common coronaviruses do lead to the production of cells called T cells and some of those T cells do react with CoV-2 and may offer some protection (or some exacerbation) for COVID-19.
If there's also the seasonal flu going around, there will be people getting symptoms that they may confuse with Covid and overwhelm hospitals for common flu treatment.
Conversely, there may also be people who have Covid, didn't get the flu shot, and just chalk up their symptoms to the flu and not Covid.
this is a cash cow as is the cv testing scam.
huge markups to medicare.
plus they are winging it every year.
who recalls pre cv there were two flu vax?
questionable ingredients to boot.
support your natural immune system
plenty of free info out there
supplements
clean food
hydrate
exercise
hit the salad bar, lose 20.
de-stress if you can, pray, meditate, vibrate, whatever.
this is a cash cow as is the cv testing scam.
huge markups to medicare.
plus they are winging it every year.
who recalls pre cv there were two flu vax?
questionable ingredients to boot.
support your natural immune system
plenty of free info out there
supplements
clean food
hydrate
exercise
hit the salad bar, lose 20.
de-stress if you can, pray, meditate, vibrate, whatever.
Just to be clear- you think people are advised by medical professional to get the flu shot because it is "cash cow". I find it funny and sad to hear people discuss big pharma who know nothing about their business.
If Pharma wanted to make more money nobody would make a flu vaccine. And producing the flu vaccine is not very profitable if at all.
Boggles my mind how people view such an effective method to keeping the population healthy.
Just to be clear- you think people are advised by medical professional to get the flu shot because it is "cash cow". I find it funny and sad to hear people discuss big pharma who know nothing about their business.
If Pharma wanted to make more money nobody would make a flu vaccine. And producing the flu vaccine is not very profitable if at all.
Boggles my mind how people view such an effective method to keeping the population healthy. [/quote]
clearly, injecting the populace on a continuing basis with a continuing variety of substances with an average efficacy rate well below 50% does not appear to be quite so "effective", nor without risk.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/past-seasons-estimates.html
also boggles my mind that your mind is boggled by the obvious fact that (bow our heads) "medical professionals" are not overprescribing meds and procedures for huge bank.
another fun fact: hospitals losing $300 Billion from covid related shutdowns.
where are all the dead folks from these cancelled, but ostensibly necessary, procedures?
https://revcycleintelligence.com/news/aha-projects-323b-in-covid-19-hospital-financial-losses-in-2020
look i know docs, nurses and staff as a rule have integrity but people need to approach their healthcare with eyes open.
cheers.
Just to be clear- you think people are advised by medical professional to get the flu shot because it is "cash cow". I find it funny and sad to hear people discuss big pharma who know nothing about their business.
If Pharma wanted to make more money nobody would make a flu vaccine. And producing the flu vaccine is not very profitable if at all.
Boggles my mind how people view such an effective method to keeping the population healthy.
clearly, injecting the populace on a continuing basis with a continuing variety of substances with an average efficacy rate well below 50% does not appear to be quite so "effective", nor without risk.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/past-seasons-estimates.html
also boggles my mind that your mind is boggled by the obvious fact that (bow our heads) "medical professionals" are not overprescribing meds and procedures for huge bank.
another fun fact: hospitals losing $300 Billion from covid related shutdowns.
where are all the dead folks from these cancelled, but ostensibly necessary, procedures?
https://revcycleintelligence.com/news/aha-projects-323b-in-covid-19-hospital-financial-losses-in-2020
look i know docs, nurses and staff as a rule have integrity but people need to approach their healthcare with eyes open.
cheers. [/quote]
Wish I would have gone on facebook first to find out about how vaccines don't work and it's all a scam but too late now I've made big pharma rich and now I'm autistic.
this is a cash cow as is the cv testing scam.
huge markups to medicare.
plus they are winging it every year.
who recalls pre cv there were two flu vax?
questionable ingredients to boot.
support your natural immune system
plenty of free info out there
supplements
clean food
hydrate
exercise
hit the salad bar, lose 20.
de-stress if you can, pray, meditate, vibrate, whatever.
It's funny...you're skeptical of the flu shot while I'm thinking that everything you listed to prevent the flu instead of the flu shot is pretty much new millenium snake oil.
Different strokes I guess.
Supplements? Yes, unregulated concoctions of whatever that can be produced by whoever are a much better option. Talk about cash cows. There’s a reason there’s entire aisles of them by a dozen companies in every pharmacy.
I mean if homosexuals can pray the gay away, the silly seasonal flu doesn't hold a candle to the power of prayer.
I mean if homosexuals can pray the gay away, the silly seasonal flu doesn't hold a candle to the power of prayer.
you day drinking?
It's funny...you're skeptical of the flu shot while I'm thinking that everything you listed to prevent the flu instead of the flu shot is pretty much new millenium snake oil.
Different strokes I guess.
you're about 5 millenia behind actually.
re supplement, lifestyle and treatment of root causes, there is a great deal of real science.
quality of products do vary. do your research.
Supplements? Yes, unregulated concoctions of whatever that can be produced by whoever are a much better option. Talk about cash cows. There’s a reason there’s entire aisles of them by a dozen companies in every pharmacy.
Thank you and so true. I'm a physician and it kills me when patients bring in all of their supplements which when added up amount to a far, far higher cost than proven medications and treatments per month. Oh, and those supplements typically have zero studies to prove efficacy except their company nonsense and anecdotal tales. People are very gullible and hate listening to experts in this country.
nobody hears about it in the media either btw. since day 1.
i'm truly sorry that so many feel scared and helpless and put their dependence on one method alone for their health. trying to sign of with a good wish each post, but the level of hostility i have received is a pretty good tell that i hit a nerve. regards.
FYI, never got the flu since then and with everyone wearing masks today gonna be a non-existent flu season anyway.
where are all the dead folks from these cancelled, but ostensibly necessary, procedures?
Where are all the dead folks? In the ground. The CDC estimates that through the beginning of October about 300,000 more people died this year than would have in a normal year. 200,000 deaths were Covid-19 related. The other 100,000 died because they didn’t get care for something else.
Excess Deaths - ( New Window )
I understand this isn't a common reaction... lucky me.
Actually, it sounds like anti-vaxxer gobblety goop. I apologize if I am misunderstanding you.
Yes diet and even simple exercise will help a lot and I would hope that is understood. Unfortunately even the very healthy need medicines like vaccinations because of all the virus and bacteria that have mutated to deadly and even those that have always been deadly.
Without getting to deep into it, even seriously healthy people die from flu and infections where vaccines would be a serious help.
And as people get older their systems do get weaker, so they need additional help that vaccination provides.
Yes obesity is a leading cause of heart disease and diabetes. Yes far less people would succumb to these if not 20+ pounds overweight through diet and exercise.
Yes a stronger immune system would reduce the effects of flues, but it does not prevent them.
I never got a flu shot until two or three years ago - I have no health issues but the doctor said it was time to start. But for less than $35 you can reduce symptoms or prevent it altogether. Unless you have allergies, there is very little down side. And in a year where COVID is knocking off mostly old and ill people, wouldn't you add a measure of protection. Yeah if your under 50, not a big deal I suppose.
Quote:
It's funny...you're skeptical of the flu shot while I'm thinking that everything you listed to prevent the flu instead of the flu shot is pretty much new millenium snake oil.
Different strokes I guess.
you're about 5 millenia behind actually.
re supplement, lifestyle and treatment of root causes, there is a great deal of real science.
quality of products do vary. do your research.
Lol. I think I have done sufficient research. If all that stuff makes you generally more fit and healthy, then great. It it’s not going to make your immune system better and it’s certainly not going to supplant the effects or need for a flu shot.
I understand this isn't a common reaction... lucky me.
Damn you! Sorry you got sick but now you just ruined my follow up shot.
FYI, never got the flu since then and with everyone wearing masks today gonna be a non-existent flu season anyway.
Yeah, because everyone is wearing a mask in Stanley's America...
Dude, masks help prevent you from spreading the virus to others. They do not prevent you from getting the virus. So your analogy with the flu shot is completely wrong.
But probably you know that and you were just trying to politicize the thread
Quote:
Some people still won’t even wear a mask, they’re not getting a shot...
Dude, masks help prevent you from spreading the virus to others. They do not prevent you from getting the virus. So your analogy with the flu shot is completely wrong.
But probably you know that and you were just trying to politicize the thread
Doesn’t sound political to me. People don’t want to be told what to do, it’s just that simple. Mask, shot, etc, makes no difference. And if wearing a mask prevents the spread how would that not also keep you from getting it, potentially?
I guess the specialists at Mass General and Johns Hopkins missed the boat on supplements
Quote:
Some people still won’t even wear a mask, they’re not getting a shot...
Dude, masks help prevent you from spreading the virus to others. They do not prevent you from getting the virus. So your analogy with the flu shot is completely wrong.
But probably you know that and you were just trying to politicize the thread
He brought up masks was to show the selfishness of our countrymen-- that people won't do somethign as inocuous as wearing a mask, so they won't do something more invasive as getting a flu shot.
It is also fair to compare both actions. Aside from the research suggesting that masks can reduce the viral load to the wearer (since Covid attaches to water droplets as well as aeresolizes) and theoretically reduce the severity of a Covid infection, its primary goal is to prevent the wearer from spreading the virus.
The flu vaccine has two goals-- protect someone from getting the flu, AND creating herd immunity to prevent spreading the flu to the most vulnurable who can't get the vaccine, and to generally prevent the spread of the flu since the vaccine isn't 100% effective.
On a separate note, that bringing up wearing masks to prevent the spread of the worst pandemic in 100 years is seen as "politicizing" a thread just shows how fucked we are as a country and how shamefully our country has responded and handled this virus. So many people who claim to love this country yet couldn't give two shits about their fellow Americans.
Outdoors (even in semi-crowded parks) many people don't wear masks, even in the North East.
Beyond that, many non-coastal regions of this country have shitty mask compliance (and often don't require them even indoors), hence their exploding case loads.
The flu vaccine has two goals-- protect someone from getting the flu, AND creating herd immunity to prevent spreading the flu to the most vulnurable who can't get the vaccine, and to generally prevent the spread of the flu since the vaccine isn't 100% effective.
Agree you on with masks, but herd immunity is letting people spread the virus to allow natural antibodies to develop in the community and therefore eliminate the virus as life threatening and knowing that some will die.
Vaccines trick the immune system into building a natural defense against the disease by building antibodies. Vaccines use dead virus while herd immunity "uses" the virus itself.
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The flu vaccine has two goals-- protect someone from getting the flu, AND creating herd immunity to prevent spreading the flu to the most vulnurable who can't get the vaccine, and to generally prevent the spread of the flu since the vaccine isn't 100% effective.
Agree you on with masks, but herd immunity is letting people spread the virus to allow natural antibodies to develop in the community and therefore eliminate the virus as life threatening and knowing that some will die.
Vaccines trick the immune system into building a natural defense against the disease by building antibodies. Vaccines use dead virus while herd immunity "uses" the virus itself.
I'm pretty sure that herd immunity is simply getting enough people immune so that the virus will not be successfully transmitted. It does not have to be done through natural infection; a vaccine campaign that will also get the requisite number of people immune will also do the trick.
To a large extent, immune is immune, regardless of whether immunity is a consequence of infection or vaccine. There are some distinctions that are sometimes subtle and sometimes large. Those may be in the exact repertoire of antibodies elicited or they may be due to different modes of immunity that a stimulated (antibodies versus non-antibodies). But, the end goal is immunity either way.
Vaccines are not necessarily "dead" virus. They could be an inactive virus or it could be a live virus that is weakened or it could be a live virus that is not the "actual" virus but, rather, a closely related virus that does not cause illness. In fact, it may not be the virus at all but, instead, protein pieces of the virus or even just genetic material from the virus. But, so long as any of these induce immunity in enough people, then you can get herd immunity.
There is no proven truth to *permanent* immunity to Covid. There are multiple documented cases of individuals catching it more than once.
There is no proven truth to *permanent* immunity to Covid. There are multiple documented cases of individuals catching it more than once.
Really, really rare events which shouldn't impact herd immunity (if herd immunity was actually possible to achieve with COVID)
Not sure Sweden regrets it. They still seem to be for it....
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is mostly an in vogue thing because of COVID where there is no vaccine. It was a flawed strategy that I believe was first suggested by some people in England as a way to burn SARS out. I think another country (maybe Sweden?) actually tried it, to their regret.
Not sure Sweden regrets it. They still seem to be for it....
Maybe so. Not sure it's a viable (NPI) thing though.
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In comment 15025928 Bill L said:
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is mostly an in vogue thing because of COVID where there is no vaccine. It was a flawed strategy that I believe was first suggested by some people in England as a way to burn SARS out. I think another country (maybe Sweden?) actually tried it, to their regret.
Not sure Sweden regrets it. They still seem to be for it....
Maybe so. Not sure it's a viable (NPI) thing though.
I agree.
Getting back to herd immunity - while I agree that vaccination leads to reduced transmission and symptoms, I think the term herd immunity means letting the populace contract the disease and once it has spread through enough people they will no longer be able to transmit it, except to those who did not get it. Example is colds. IIRC there are nearly 250 different viruses that cause colds and once you get one, you will not get that particular cold again. I used to get 3 or 4 colds per year, cannot remember the last time I got one of any consequence. This virus is not like colds, although I read that there are strains of corona virus that cause colds and it is possible symptomless carriers have had a very similar corona virus that the body's immune system has antibodies for that suppresses covid-19. IDK if that is true or a theory or BS.
The Swedish COVID-19 Response Is a Disaster. It Shouldn’t Be a Model for the Rest of the World - ( New Window )
People will criticize these graphs, and try and qualify things a certain way, but at the end of the day I just don't trust any media source right now not to politicize this pandemic and to focus on the most negative and fear mongering aspect and I feel like they deserve that.
I guess the specialists at Mass General and Johns Hopkins missed the boat on supplements
truly sorry for your health issues. There are certainly extenuating circumstances where a lot of intervention for certain people is called for.
As for chronic diseases and seasonal outbreaks, along with side effect risk and medical errors, I stand by my view that lifestyle and diet will go a great way towards reducing lots of suffering and economic cost in this country.
We are exposed to a great deal of toxicity in our modern world from chemicals and pollutants along with processed foods.
Creating a healthy environment in our body is important in keeping long-term well being. The right supplementation can help. If I sound like a nut to some of you so be it, I wish you all the best.
People will criticize these graphs, and try and qualify things a certain way, but at the end of the day I just don't trust any media source right now not to politicize this pandemic and to focus on the most negative and fear mongering aspect and I feel like they deserve that.
Do you have charts comparing Sweden's closest neighbors?
More than that, the reason the US couldn't adopt the Sweden model is because Americans don't trust their government or authorities the way that Swedes do. Even with the hands-off approach, most Swedes stayed home, minimized unnecessary social gatherings, and exercised social distancing because they "conform."
Sweden has had lower cases, but their overall death rates rival the United States, which is disastrous. Also, I believe that the United States is considered to be a far less healthy country compared with Sweden, and so I would imagine that comorbidities and underlying ailments would cause even higher rates of death in the US if they took the herd immunity approach.
There is now a massive split within Sweden as to whether to tighten up restrictions or continue as is.
I agree.
Getting back to herd immunity - while I agree that vaccination leads to reduced transmission and symptoms, I think the term herd immunity means letting the populace contract the disease and once it has spread through enough people they will no longer be able to transmit it, except to those who did not get it. Example is colds. IIRC there are nearly 250 different viruses that cause colds and once you get one, you will not get that particular cold again. I used to get 3 or 4 colds per year, cannot remember the last time I got one of any consequence. This virus is not like colds, although I read that there are strains of corona virus that cause colds and it is possible symptomless carriers have had a very similar corona virus that the body's immune system has antibodies for that suppresses covid-19. IDK if that is true or a theory or BS.
There are 7 different coronaviruses that infect humans. Three of them cause severe disease (SARS, SARS-2, MERS) and the other 4 cause mild cold-type diseases. Antibodies to the 4 "common" coronaviruses don't react with COV-2, so they don't suppress or enhance COVID-19. However infection with those common coronaviruses do lead to the production of cells called T cells and some of those T cells do react with CoV-2 and may offer some protection (or some exacerbation) for COVID-19.