I’m hearing that Giants, like reports have stated, aren’t shopping Engram but that he Does have a price tag. The done deal
Line is a 3rd rounder. They don’t want take anything less than a high to mid 4th. If deal is struck it will be in next 36 hours.
A 4th seems like a reasonable deal.
So unless you are getting a solid pick back it doesn’t make much sense to trade him for peanuts and also say you want to see what you have in Jones. These are tied together. Tate isn’t since Tate can’t get separation and his salary makes him expendable.
This won't make all the pain go away. You know that right?
Where he was picked is wholly irrelevant at this point.
“Hey Dave, I gotta great trade for you. TE who can’t catch and can’t block and gets injured all the time. Workout numbers like you won’t believe!”
“Hey Dave, that sounds great. What do I have to give up to get this done right away”?
Your point is well taken but what's the worst that can happen? Someone drops an easy game-sealing pass late in the 4th quarter?
If we can trade Engram for a mid 4th you do it. I'll be in your corner on not blaming Garrett for the resulting downgrade.
So unless you are getting a solid pick back it doesn’t make much sense to trade him for peanuts and also say you want to see what you have in Jones. These are tied together. Tate isn’t since Tate can’t get separation and his salary makes him expendable.
This. It's impossible to evaluate the guy properly if they trade Engram, and lose Slayton or Shep to injury. Patrick Mahomes isn't making that offense work on his own, contrary to popular believe here.
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This won't make all the pain go away. You know that right?
It won't, but he's a guy I'm pretty sick of seeing in a Giants uniform. Nothing against the guy, but the fact they can't even bench him right now is maddening. I'm sure Judge isn't thrilled either.
It isn't about him being gone soon its more than that as I mentioned above. You may disagree with that theory, but I'm willing to bet Judge really really wants to know what Jones will do these last 9 games as it has major implications with the offseason and future plans.
holding on to him only to not sign him (which they shouldn't) really makes no sense. take the best offer possible and call it a day.
the same should be said for LW, Tate, Tomlinson, Fleming, Zeitler and Peppers.
That said, I'd be inclined to keep him if he can't fetch a third-round pick (which he almost certainly can't). With the comp picks at the end of Day Two, a fourth-round pick from a contending team is likely be somewhere between #115 and #135. As much as I love having extra lottery tickets, let's not kid ourselves about the real likelihood of hitting the jackpot that late.
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the Giants want to know what they have in Jones and evaluating that includes him throwing to what’s supposed to be a guy who exploits mismatches. And he can do that on occasion but the drops have been killer.
So unless you are getting a solid pick back it doesn’t make much sense to trade him for peanuts and also say you want to see what you have in Jones. These are tied together. Tate isn’t since Tate can’t get separation and his salary makes him expendable.
This. It's impossible to evaluate the guy properly if they trade Engram, and lose Slayton or Shep to injury. Patrick Mahomes isn't making that offense work on his own, contrary to popular believe here.
I haven't seen anything EE has done this season that Smith can't (except for dropping every third pass). I could argue his lack of blocking makes things harder on DJ and he'd be better (due to better blocking) if he was gone
He's worthless for anything, including for helping to find out what they've got in Jones, who has the size, smarts, and skills to be a top QB in this league. Jones needs blockers and play makers around him, and Engram is neither one.
Take what you can get for EE now.
holding on to him only to not sign him (which they shouldn't) really makes no sense. take the best offer possible and call it a day.
the same should be said for LW, Tate, Tomlinson, Fleming, Zeitler and Peppers.
He's not a FA since they picked up his 2021 1st round pick option. They could cut him this offseason (if he's healthy), but then he wouldn't factor into comp pick formula anyway.
Zeitler and Peppers (also on the option) are also under contract for 2021. It might be prudent to trade them now, but holding them won't impact comp picks.
That said, I'd be inclined to keep him if he can't fetch a third-round pick (which he almost certainly can't). With the comp picks at the end of Day Two, a fourth-round pick from a contending team is likely be somewhere between #115 and #135. As much as I love having extra lottery tickets, let's not kid ourselves about the real likelihood of hitting the jackpot that late.
You want to keep him in the hope that he lands them a 4th round comp pick in the 2023 draft? He's under contract for 2021 and thus wouldn't be a FA until 2022.
If they can't get a third, then maybe a four and a seven.
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odds are they will be extreme buyers again in free agency. so if he signs elsewhere they won't be getting a comp pick back.
holding on to him only to not sign him (which they shouldn't) really makes no sense. take the best offer possible and call it a day.
the same should be said for LW, Tate, Tomlinson, Fleming, Zeitler and Peppers.
He's not a FA since they picked up his 2021 1st round pick option. They could cut him this offseason (if he's healthy), but then he wouldn't factor into comp pick formula anyway.
Zeitler and Peppers (also on the option) are also under contract for 2021. It might be prudent to trade them now, but holding them won't impact comp picks.
i lumped in zeitler because he is almost certain to be cut, and peppers because he has shown he is simply an average player and not a long-term answer
but you are correct in all of your points, my apologies for the incorrect information
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He’s gone at the end of the year! We’re talking about 10 games left for him. A fifth, absolutely.
It isn't about him being gone soon its more than that as I mentioned above. You may disagree with that theory, but I'm willing to bet Judge really really wants to know what Jones will do these last 9 games as it has major implications with the offseason and future plans.
Evan Engram is not helping Jones in any way shape or form. Infact he is hurting him because a majority of his turnovers involve Engram being involved in the play either deflecting the ball, running the wrong route, or being slow to the ball . He also cant block at all so that makes Jones face more pressure when he is in for blocking .
There isnt 1 area of the game where Engram helps Jones out . This is a classic case of addition by subtraction . I would dump him for whatever they can get including a 7th round pick at this point . He is an awful player who makes everyone around him worse
There’s still gotta be a team out there that likes the talent and believes they can “fix him” because of his athletic ability.
This is the type of ability that flashes, doesn’t pan out and leads to coaches getting fired
We all may think there's no chance of Engram getting over the drops, but the upside of him figuring it out is huge. Its means atleast 2 more wins for the team this year.
I want to see Kaden Smith out there because he seems more sure handed, but he's also going to be easily covered when we need to make a play. So that isn't a solution either.
I just don't see them dealing him now.
He does get open.
Yeah because those 3.7 catches per game with his whopping 59% catch rate are really the engine that drives this juggernaut offense.
Maybe you can make a case for not having the distraction of throwing to a very mediocre (or worse) "scholarship" player would improve a stagnant offense.
Speaking of beer. I did keto for a month but decided to treat myself to some Oyster Bay Brewing selections at their brewery on Saturday ( my birthday is tomorrow) I drank one stout and got drunk.
I just don't see them dealing him now.
I think the rest of the team sees what we do. And they know this is a rebuilding year and like us are thinking about next year at least to some extent.
Come again?
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on the roster is sending a signal to the players that their season is over, despite the fact that the Giants are only 1 game out in the East.
I just don't see them dealing him now.
I think the rest of the team sees what we do. And they know this is a rebuilding year and like us are thinking about next year at least to some extent.
Actually I think it would be viewed as being held accountable. The players know what is happening. They see a guy who continually messes up blocking assignments, and drops every other pass thrown to him. I think it plays right into Judge's comments about playing the best people
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his inability to get open, his stone hands, and subpar blocking?
He does get open.
No, he doesn't.
“Hey Dave, I gotta great trade for you. TE who can’t catch and can’t block and gets injured all the time. Workout numbers like you won’t believe!”
“Hey Dave, that sounds great. What do I have to give up to get this done right away”?
Would he then call the league office, and say that we are waiving a draft pick because we traded for EE?
They need more weapons for Jones, not less. They, despite how bad things are, still have a chance to win the division.
I get it, everyone is upset that he hasn't played well, but the talent is there, they just need to bring it out of him.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 15025415 Dave in Hoboken said:
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his inability to get open, his stone hands, and subpar blocking?
He does get open.
No, he doesn't.
Not going to get into it with you. You are so dug in on the Giants being terrible that you can't get out of your own way.
But lets just take a look at the most famous play of the season...
Engram gets open, easily. - ( New Window )
This comment completely ignores the fact that he can't block either...
There is no way the Giants are going to extend Engram for $12M-$14M per year. If they can acquire additional draft capital by moving Engram now, who will be on his 5th year option in 2021, then I think they have to do it from pure cap number perspective. Forget the fact that he was a #1 pick. He has never been 100% healthy, can't block and has iffy hands. All the speed and athleticism in the world can't change that. Take the 3rd round pick or 4th/7th round picks and don't look back.
Remember Dave said he did not sign OBJ just to trade him, right before trading him. Let's hope he doesn't take the first team to offer a bagel, hot pretzel and a bag of donuts.
I just don't see them dealing him now.
There is a reason. Engram is dead weight and if you could at least get something out of him, go for it. A 3rd rounder and you guys still say no?
2 losses to division teams already. What makes you possibly think this team can go on some sort of run with only 1 win heading into November? This is with Tampa Bay, Baltimore, Seattle and Arizona and Cleveland (who are both pretty solid) ahead on the schedule. This team fucking sucks, dude.
The season is over. Lol.
This guy has contributed nothing but disappointment to the team, can't stay healthy, can't catch, can't block and you guys sit here day in and day out and say he's not worth trading? I've been saying it for years how bad he is and no one wants to admit it and then he comes back the next year and pulls the same nonsense.
I could see if he contributed to wins but it's the complete opposite with him. Or let's switch him to a wide receiver. Or let's see what he can do when he's healthy.... Well?
He's just another first round Giants bust who needs to be gone. And his drop against Philly put the nail in his offin.
What would we be missing if this "stud with so much upside" or whatever other malarkey was gone? Someone tell me. I'm dying to find out.
Trade him. He's completely useless.
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In comment 15025418 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15025415 Dave in Hoboken said:
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his inability to get open, his stone hands, and subpar blocking?
He does get open.
No, he doesn't.
Not going to get into it with you. You are so dug in on the Giants being terrible that you can't get out of your own way.
But lets just take a look at the most famous play of the season... Engram gets open, easily. - ( New Window )
So, one example in 7 games. Well done. Only you would defend Engram as the least bit useful this season. And I'm not going to get into it with someone who actually defends this franchise who ahs the worst record in the last 3 seasons and awful players like Evan Engram.
Do you even read your posts? I say Engram can't get open, and you give me one play in 7 games and a play where he drops a wide open pass that cost us the game.
Wake the fuck up, bro.
What is this about a trade for Golladay? Can't find a thread where this has been mentioned.
Wake the fuck up and actually read before commenting. I'm not defending Engram or the franchise - I have a price for him which I laid out above along with my reasoning. Up to you to use your brain and follow along.
it would be unfortunate to get only a late rounder but hes killing the team over a large sample now.
I like my TEs the exact opposite of Engram - big tough slobberknockers who can catch a pass when theyre wide open. i dont need a 4.4.
Do you want a fifth that its so late that it is almost a 6th? At that point I think you keep him. Jones needs someone to throw to other than Slayton otherwise he's going to get crushed.
As someone mentioned, I could see Seattle having interest. Maybe Green Bay. Maybe Arizona. They seems to have very little TE production.
A third seems very aggressive for someone who hasn't lived up to the first round billing. A fourth and fifth seem more in the strike zone for me...
As someone mentioned, I could see Seattle having interest. Maybe Green Bay. Maybe Arizona. They seems to have very little TE production.
A third seems very aggressive for someone who hasn't lived up to the first round billing. A fourth and fifth seem more in the strike zone for me...
Not GB. This guy Tonyan seems to have the goods
They need more weapons for Jones, not less. They, despite how bad things are, still have a chance to win the division.
I get it, everyone is upset that he hasn't played well, but the talent is there, they just need to bring it out of him.
Humorous post. He wasn't worth a 2nd round pick when he was drafted. And he has been through a few coaching staffs now, so this bring out the talent thing isn't working in NY.
Still think best deal is a player for player trade if they can find another guy who needs a change of scenery.
If he keeps dropping passes, sure. But if he starts catching them then no chance - he opens up the offense. Just look what Shepard did for us, I think their impact is similar. IF they are playing like shit its noticeable and if they are playing well things just seem like they are clicking.
LOL.
There’s not an NFL GM that would pay that much.
Oh, except maybe Gettleman.
What do these guys think is going to happen? If he goes to another team, is he going to turn into a 15 touchdown a year machine, potential HOFer overnight? Extending drives and reaching out for the sticks, breaking tackles.
Oh man, we'll be kicking the dirt.
[[Insert hindsight about we used to have idiom here]]
1) he's a dirt cheap contributor and/or try out this year
2) he's cost-controlled next year and the recipient can get him in camp, and see if they can salvage him
If the Giants rescind his option, he's not part of the comp formula. So it's either the definition of insanity next year for $6M or lose him for nothing.
If there's an eager party willing to give something up for him -- take it.
He’d enter the formula but we’d likely sign enough FAs to offset it
Engram is a FA after the 2021 season. The Giants wouldn't get a comp pick for him until the 2023 draft. Also there's no way to tell what pick that would be.
We need an NFL TE
Okay with moving on if we have get a late 3rd round pick. Don’t see his trade value increasing the more we hold onto him.
Seems to be a good guy with that said.
A whole lotta "buts" in connection with this bozo team over the years.
He'll be 37 by the time the Giants decide to part ways with him and he'll get his own twenty-five foot statue outside of MetLife Stadium.
He's produced next to nothing as it is. Our offense is trash.
It may be a clever thing to say but Engram is far from a coach killer. He does nothing like the prima donnas that populate rosters around the league. He may be a GM killer because the GM doesn’t know what to do with him. Resign him, trade him, release him. It doesn’t matter because whatever the GM does is probably going to be wrong.
it would be unfortunate to get only a late rounder but hes killing the team over a large sample now.
I like my TEs the exact opposite of Engram - big tough slobberknockers who can catch a pass when theyre wide open. i dont need a 4.4.
Randle stuck around a because he was nailin' Reese's daughter
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saying get him the F out of here. he reminds me of rueben randle. enough raw ability and draft cap to stay in the lineup, getting the benefit of the doubt. killing drive after drive, losing game after game.
it would be unfortunate to get only a late rounder but hes killing the team over a large sample now.
I like my TEs the exact opposite of Engram - big tough slobberknockers who can catch a pass when theyre wide open. i dont need a 4.4.
Randle stuck around a because he was nailin' Reese's daughter
Is that a proven fact? Or are you just going by a few social media interactions??
If true ... how exactly would banging Reese's daughter be Randle's bargaining chip to stick around?
Why on earth would that satsify Reese? Weird.
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Think he is being undervalued.. he’s a coach killer. He has great measurables and teases just enough to keep you believing he can be a stud.. we are 4 years in and it hasn’t happened yet.. if it happens some where else so be it but eventually you need to let go
It may be a clever thing to say but Engram is far from a coach killer. He does nothing like the prima donnas that populate rosters around the league. He may be a GM killer because the GM doesn’t know what to do with him. Resign him, trade him, release him. It doesn’t matter because whatever the GM does is probably going to be wrong.
Respectfully disagree. He gets opportunity after opportunity to succeed and falls short a majority of the time. He teases you with his talent and then underperforms in key moments. He didn’t cost us the game but that play could have sealed a win for the team and coach
He’s killing the fans, GM, and certainly the coach who trust him. Nice guy? Yes. Hard worker? Worthy of more opportunity? No chance
If you like Jones, get Engram off the team. He's going to cost Jones a couple of more INT's the longer he stays here.