Asshat Info: Engram

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But I’d listen to a 5. A 3 seems wildly unrealistic but you have to have a starting point so I get it.

& thank you for posting. I'd have no issue trading him for a shot at another Peart/Holmes, who were each generally top 100 players, but anything lower than that and it's very much throwing darts.

And shut the door.

A 5th not so much.

A 4th seems like a reasonable deal.

He was a 1st rd pick, and his raw stats aren't bad. Maybe someone will think they can work with him

so is it dump assets or try to win now? Lots of smoke!

the Giants want to know what they have in Jones and evaluating that includes him throwing to what’s supposed to be a guy who exploits mismatches. And he can do that on occasion but the drops have been killer.

So unless you are getting a solid pick back it doesn’t make much sense to trade him for peanuts and also say you want to see what you have in Jones. These are tied together. Tate isn’t since Tate can’t get separation and his salary makes him expendable.

but I doubt they get offers for a 4th. Getting a 3rd rounder for Evan "No Hands" Engram is too good to hope for.

could see someone giving up a third. They could be tantalized by his speed. He's also not a FA until 2022, so it's not like they'd be trading a day two draft pick for a half year rental.

that want Engram off the team will celebrate if the deal gets done, then act completely mystified when the offense struggles even more than it already is. Probably blaming Garrett.

not getting a 3rd for our bust TE who can't catch.

In comment 15025318 widmerseyebrow said:

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This won't make all the pain go away. You know that right?

In comment 15025329 PatersonPlank said:

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He was a 1st rd pick, and his raw stats aren't bad. Maybe someone will think they can work with him

Where he was picked is wholly irrelevant at this point.

Then we’d be golden!

“Hey Dave, I gotta great trade for you. TE who can’t catch and can’t block and gets injured all the time. Workout numbers like you won’t believe!”

“Hey Dave, that sounds great. What do I have to give up to get this done right away”?

In comment 15025340 BlackLight said:

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that want Engram off the team will celebrate if the deal gets done, then act completely mystified when the offense struggles even more than it already is. Probably blaming Garrett.

Your point is well taken but what's the worst that can happen? Someone drops an easy game-sealing pass late in the 4th quarter?

If we can trade Engram for a mid 4th you do it. I'll be in your corner on not blaming Garrett for the resulting downgrade.

In comment 15025335 UConn4523 said:

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the Giants want to know what they have in Jones and evaluating that includes him throwing to what’s supposed to be a guy who exploits mismatches. And he can do that on occasion but the drops have been killer. So unless you are getting a solid pick back it doesn’t make much sense to trade him for peanuts and also say you want to see what you have in Jones. These are tied together. Tate isn’t since Tate can’t get separation and his salary makes him expendable.

This. It's impossible to evaluate the guy properly if they trade Engram, and lose Slayton or Shep to injury. Patrick Mahomes isn't making that offense work on his own, contrary to popular believe here.

In comment 15025345 djm said:

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In comment 15025318 widmerseyebrow said: Quote: . This won't make all the pain go away. You know that right?

It won't, but he's a guy I'm pretty sick of seeing in a Giants uniform. Nothing against the guy, but the fact they can't even bench him right now is maddening. I'm sure Judge isn't thrilled either.

He’s gone at the end of the year! We’re talking about 10 games left for him. A fifth, absolutely.

4th would be dandy. Have to think Seahawks, Bills, Cardinals, Saints could be interested

In comment 15025365 BillT said:

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He’s gone at the end of the year! We’re talking about 10 games left for him. A fifth, absolutely.

It isn't about him being gone soon its more than that as I mentioned above. You may disagree with that theory, but I'm willing to bet Judge really really wants to know what Jones will do these last 9 games as it has major implications with the offseason and future plans.

and price war?

the extra info could mean demands are lowering.

odds are they will be extreme buyers again in free agency. so if he signs elsewhere they won't be getting a comp pick back.

holding on to him only to not sign him (which they shouldn't) really makes no sense. take the best offer possible and call it a day.

the same should be said for LW, Tate, Tomlinson, Fleming, Zeitler and Peppers.

...is that it removes the injury risk/cap liability associated with his Year Five option. At this point, the Giants are on the hook for $6MM next year if he gets hurt.

That said, I'd be inclined to keep him if he can't fetch a third-round pick (which he almost certainly can't). With the comp picks at the end of Day Two, a fourth-round pick from a contending team is likely be somewhere between #115 and #135. As much as I love having extra lottery tickets, let's not kid ourselves about the real likelihood of hitting the jackpot that late.

In comment 15025361 Zeke's Alibi said:

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In comment 15025335 UConn4523 said: Quote: the Giants want to know what they have in Jones and evaluating that includes him throwing to what’s supposed to be a guy who exploits mismatches. And he can do that on occasion but the drops have been killer. So unless you are getting a solid pick back it doesn’t make much sense to trade him for peanuts and also say you want to see what you have in Jones. These are tied together. Tate isn’t since Tate can’t get separation and his salary makes him expendable. This. It's impossible to evaluate the guy properly if they trade Engram, and lose Slayton or Shep to injury. Patrick Mahomes isn't making that offense work on his own, contrary to popular believe here.

I haven't seen anything EE has done this season that Smith can't (except for dropping every third pass). I could argue his lack of blocking makes things harder on DJ and he'd be better (due to better blocking) if he was gone

I've seen more than enough of Mr. Can't-Catch-Or-Block-Worth-A-Shit.

He's worthless for anything, including for helping to find out what they've got in Jones, who has the size, smarts, and skills to be a top QB in this league. Jones needs blockers and play makers around him, and Engram is neither one.

Take what you can get for EE now.

In comment 15025384 GiantsFan84 said:

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odds are they will be extreme buyers again in free agency. so if he signs elsewhere they won't be getting a comp pick back. holding on to him only to not sign him (which they shouldn't) really makes no sense. take the best offer possible and call it a day. the same should be said for LW, Tate, Tomlinson, Fleming, Zeitler and Peppers.

He's not a FA since they picked up his 2021 1st round pick option. They could cut him this offseason (if he's healthy), but then he wouldn't factor into comp pick formula anyway.

Zeitler and Peppers (also on the option) are also under contract for 2021. It might be prudent to trade them now, but holding them won't impact comp picks.

and a mid round draft pick is basically nothing. He is under contract for next season at 6 mil. so I guess you can argue the cap savings but another Jerry Reese piece of crap pick.

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In comment 15025385 Big Blue Blogger said:

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...is that it removes the injury risk/cap liability associated with his Year Five option. At this point, the Giants are on the hook for $6MM next year if he gets hurt. That said, I'd be inclined to keep him if he can't fetch a third-round pick (which he almost certainly can't). With the comp picks at the end of Day Two, a fourth-round pick from a contending team is likely be somewhere between #115 and #135. As much as I love having extra lottery tickets, let's not kid ourselves about the real likelihood of hitting the jackpot that late.

You want to keep him in the hope that he lands them a 4th round comp pick in the 2023 draft? He's under contract for 2021 and thus wouldn't be a FA until 2022.

In comment 15025383 JonC said:

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the extra info could mean demands are lowering.

If they can't get a third, then maybe a four and a seven.

In comment 15025391 giants#1 said:

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In comment 15025384 GiantsFan84 said: Quote: odds are they will be extreme buyers again in free agency. so if he signs elsewhere they won't be getting a comp pick back. holding on to him only to not sign him (which they shouldn't) really makes no sense. take the best offer possible and call it a day. the same should be said for LW, Tate, Tomlinson, Fleming, Zeitler and Peppers. He's not a FA since they picked up his 2021 1st round pick option. They could cut him this offseason (if he's healthy), but then he wouldn't factor into comp pick formula anyway. Zeitler and Peppers (also on the option) are also under contract for 2021. It might be prudent to trade them now, but holding them won't impact comp picks.

i lumped in zeitler because he is almost certain to be cut, and peppers because he has shown he is simply an average player and not a long-term answer

but you are correct in all of your points, my apologies for the incorrect information

coming from? I hadn't heard that before.

Crossed

In comment 15025372 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 15025365 BillT said: Quote: He’s gone at the end of the year! We’re talking about 10 games left for him. A fifth, absolutely. It isn't about him being gone soon its more than that as I mentioned above. You may disagree with that theory, but I'm willing to bet Judge really really wants to know what Jones will do these last 9 games as it has major implications with the offseason and future plans.

Evan Engram is not helping Jones in any way shape or form. Infact he is hurting him because a majority of his turnovers involve Engram being involved in the play either deflecting the ball, running the wrong route, or being slow to the ball . He also cant block at all so that makes Jones face more pressure when he is in for blocking .

There isnt 1 area of the game where Engram helps Jones out . This is a classic case of addition by subtraction . I would dump him for whatever they can get including a 7th round pick at this point . He is an awful player who makes everyone around him worse

go for a 4th or 5th. Talk about 20 cents on the dollar.

There’s still gotta be a team out there that likes the talent and believes they can “fix him” because of his athletic ability.

This is the type of ability that flashes, doesn’t pan out and leads to coaches getting fired

i don't see it that way. The fact that Engram is the focal point of all this mean's he's comfortable throwing to him, which means he's a reliable target. Jones, despite all of Engram's fuck ups, is still throwing to him.

We all may think there's no chance of Engram getting over the drops, but the upside of him figuring it out is huge. Its means atleast 2 more wins for the team this year.

I want to see Kaden Smith out there because he seems more sure handed, but he's also going to be easily covered when we need to make a play. So that isn't a solution either.

on the roster is sending a signal to the players that their season is over, despite the fact that the Giants are only 1 game out in the East.

I just don't see them dealing him now.

his inability to get open, his stone hands, and subpar blocking?

I only mentioned that the presence of comp picks at the end of the third round devalue the picks that come after.

In comment 15025415 Dave in Hoboken said:

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his inability to get open, his stone hands, and subpar blocking?

He does get open.

& a $25 gift certificate to Chick fil A.

In comment 15025340 BlackLight said:

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that want Engram off the team will celebrate if the deal gets done, then act completely mystified when the offense struggles even more than it already is. Probably blaming Garrett.

Yeah because those 3.7 catches per game with his whopping 59% catch rate are really the engine that drives this juggernaut offense.

Maybe you can make a case for not having the distraction of throwing to a very mediocre (or worse) "scholarship" player would improve a stagnant offense.

but I think we are really undervaluing him. I still think his potential is worth trying to bring out.

In comment 15025420 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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& a $25 gift certificate to Chick fil A.

Speaking of beer. I did keto for a month but decided to treat myself to some Oyster Bay Brewing selections at their brewery on Saturday ( my birthday is tomorrow) I drank one stout and got drunk.

In comment 15025414 Jim in Tampa said:

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on the roster is sending a signal to the players that their season is over, despite the fact that the Giants are only 1 game out in the East. I just don't see them dealing him now.

I think the rest of the team sees what we do. And they know this is a rebuilding year and like us are thinking about next year at least to some extent.

to run and pass blocking. Remember a TE isn't supposed to just round around and drop passes, half his role is also to block (in which EE is useless).

Think he is being undervalued.. he’s a coach killer. He has great measurables and teases just enough to keep you believing he can be a stud.. we are 4 years in and it hasn’t happened yet.. if it happens some where else so be it but eventually you need to let go

In comment 15025330 Jim in Forest Hills said:

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so is it dump assets or try to win now? Lots of smoke!

Come again?