we know they hired a HC, drafted rosen and then cut out both of them the next year.
but from the first Wilkes draft:
Oakland traded a first-round selection (10th) to Arizona in exchange for Arizona's first-, third-, and fifth-round selections (15th, 79th, and 152nd) for Rosen. they got a 2nd back from Miami as well as their 5th.
they basically blew a 1st rounder. no big deal.
2nd round they took Christian Kirk. who is a pretty good receiver. would probably be our 3rd option here easily.
3rd round comp pick they took Mason Cole who started as a backup and i believe is now the starting center. average player according to pff.
Chase Edmonds a guy who torched us last year was a 4th round comp pick. suitable #2 RB on most teams.
then 2019:
1 Kyler Murray QB lighting up the league in ways.
2 Byron Murphy CB suitable starter(i don't fault DG for Baker but GOD DAMMIT)
2 Andy Isabella WR hardly targeted speed guy
3 Zach Allen DE starting DE, somewhere around a 50 grade on pff.
4 Hakeem Butler WR not on team, was hyped up pre draft
5 Deionte Thompson S back up
6 Keesean Johnson WR IR
6 Lamont Gaillard C Back up
7 Joshua Miles T Back up
2020:
not much to talk about besides them getting Simmons at 8 and Josh Jones the tackle in the 3rd.
I didn't include free agency the last 3 years but outside of jordan hicks, our own Justin Pugh, trading for hopkins was huge but other than that. not much going on. mostly resigning there own guys and a bunch of 1 year deals.
it really goes to show that having a few key pieces can help immensely.
playmaker QB
playmaker WR
pass rusher
cover corner
I think thats the jist of it for this year. So knowing that, how far off are the giants?
I understand why they may not have thought trading for a 28 year old and making him 1 of the highest paid players in the league was a great idea but with hindsight it has made a huge difference in Kyler Murray taking the next step this year.
So to answer your question I think adding 2 more weapons for Jones has to be the paramount objective this offseason. Ideally a vet WR via FA and another via the draft on day 1 or day 2. Though they also need to make sure the system fits Jones as well as Kingsbury's system obviously fits Kyler. Garrett has not done a great job this year though last week was progress.
But the Giants are not close. If they were close, they would have beaten Philly and Dallas.
I think more likely you need two to develop a playoff team from here if you execute well.
even with seattle letting wilson get sacked late, our line would've found a way to get Jones sacked earlier lol.
my only gripe with him is some of the goofy route selections("everyone one run to the sticks and turn around", its never worked. maybe if CBs are playing off the WR, like against us...) and the TE runs. theres a time and a place for that, i don't want to see a reverse in the redzone.
so looking at that as a model, unless we get the #1 overall where the pick is obviously lawrence the right move would be to trade down, accumulate more picks, and cluster draft different positions.
ideally WR (give me Terrance Marshall in the 2nd if he doesn't sky rocket in the offseason), Interior Linemen(creed humphries, move gates to guard where he'll probably be better than zeitler), and Cornerback.
I'm with you, I don't think they're that talented, but they have specific pieces that make our team look like they don't belong in the same league.
What I'm trying to get across is we're not a lost cause like some people portray. theres no magic button to push, it's years and years of things going right to stay in the good team tier.
Since day one, Getts has been beating his chest saying he knows more than everyone else, combined. Though we haven't heard from him recently, which is good. But he doesn't strike me as the type that will admit his mistakes, and make the necessary changes to make up for it. Same goes for our ownership group, who's style is to 'trade a player a year too late, rather than a year too early', so to speak.
So I do agree with some who have felt this way about it: we are unlikely to change course this offseason. But not because we're headed in the right direction, or we like where we're going. But because we're too stupid and stubborn to see it and admit our mistakes. I'd dearly love to be proven wrong, and hope that we do make meaningful changes though. What else can I do...
But the Giants are not close. If they were close, they would have beaten Philly and Dallas.
I think we are definitely closer than you are suggesting. D line loooks good. We are much better at LB and we were dealt a shitty hand in the secondary (say what you want about Beal and Baker, they flashed last year, would have been starters and better than everything outside of Bradberry). Our OL is brand new with3 new starters and they have started to improve quite a bit.
Some of you guys need a lot more perspective when evaluating this team.
Fun to watch. I feel like it’s not going to last but the HC has a system and it’s a good one.
But the Giants are not close. If they were close, they would have beaten Philly and Dallas.
I don't think I agree. Their OL and defense on the whole are just as lacking talent as ours. Chandler Jones and Patrick Peterson were better players than anyone we had when Jones got here, but this past offseason (specifically the Bradberry signing) closed that gap. I believe those were the 2 pro bowlers on their roster when Kyler was drafted (we had Barkley).
Hopkins and the coaching staff continuity from last year are the 2 big differences I can see in the 2 teams from last year to this year.
Carter stinks. Stop.
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Not forget about losing our best pass rusher to an achilles.
Carter stinks. Stop.
I was struggling to think of who he was talking about. Thanjs
And he lets Kyler Murray be Kyler Murray.
So ignore that they are 5-2, playing in the best division in the NFL, and just took down undefeated Seattle with the leading MVP candidate, RW?
If we were doing anything remotely similar many at BBI would be talking playoffs, seeding and the Super Bowl...
This.
The premise of the thread is right. It doesn't take much to turn a team around.
A good coach. A good GM. A good QB. Some ERs. Those are the essential pieces.
We don't have those, except maybe the coach.
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they were the worst team in the NFL last year and have 5 wins so far. They haven't won SHIT yet, so how can you call their rebuild - to date - as anything but incomplete?
So ignore that they are 5-2, playing in the best division in the NFL, and just took down undefeated Seattle with the leading MVP candidate, RW?
If we were doing anything remotely similar many at BBI would be talking playoffs, seeding and the Super Bowl...
yeah I'm saying ignore the fact they are 5-2 because all that means is they could be 5-13, and maybe the Giants finish with a better record this year. No one knows. They win one Sunday night game - albeit impressively - and this board is acting like they've arrived as the second coming of New England. I'm just saying we should let things play out more before we anoint them as the model of rebuild and one we should emulate.
and btw, if the Giants were 5-2 and just won a Sunday night game like the Cards, I'd still be telling everyone to calm down and stop talking about Super Bowls 7 games into a season.
But I'm an idiot.
But they are winning, beating good teams (Seattle and 9ers), destroying bad teams (Dallas) and their loss to Detroit isn't looking so bad now because the Lions are 3-3.
Meanwhile, many here are clinging to moral victories when the Giants play "well" for most of a game...
That's not a bad point. But he def was looking light years better this year. He was constantly in the backfield, he was playing the run well.
Say what you want, Carter was starting to make some plays. For perspective, Strahan only had 13 sacks thru 39 games. And only 18 thru 4 full years.
Barkley was one. Jones was supposed to possibly be another.
They aren’t going to give up on jones yet. So they need to build up the talent around jones and fast. This offseason will be all about accentuating DJ’s strengths. Giants will focus on WR, RB, TE and OL, not necessarily in that order.
Barkley was one. Jones was supposed to possibly be another.
They aren’t going to give up on jones yet. So they need to build up the talent around jones and fast. This offseason will be all about accentuating DJ’s strengths. Giants will focus on WR, RB, TE and OL, not necessarily in that order.
We need pass rushers. That should be the priority.
Look at the bears a few years ago. Went out and got Mack and turned a decent D into a good one. This OP, look at the cardinals. They aren’t shit right now without Murray’s nightly act. The good players only matter when you have great players. Without the closers, the money players playing critical roles, you’re still going to lose games, just like in the NBA, with only a few exceptions.
Barkley was a devastating loss. That was literally the one and only guy we couldn’t afford to lose, this year and last. We’re not good enough to cover hi that loss yet.
I don’t know how they do it but the giants need to find some serious star power this offseason.
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One super star here could make a huge difference. Problem is those guys are hard to find. Best way to find a super star is to draft and develop them.
Barkley was one. Jones was supposed to possibly be another.
They aren’t going to give up on jones yet. So they need to build up the talent around jones and fast. This offseason will be all about accentuating DJ’s strengths. Giants will focus on WR, RB, TE and OL, not necessarily in that order.
We need pass rushers. That should be the priority.
We do, but it’s not the biggest problem on this team. Id treat passrusher is a number one priority but the offense is worse than the defense. And there’s a young qb dying on the vine as we speak.
The good news is this - a new GM who works well with Judge and hits on the draft + FA and this team could win this shitty division next year. It shouldn’t take years, just look at the Cardinals.
The issue is the Giants have nothing to show for any first round pick since 2012. Nothing.
David Wilson
Justin Pugh
Odell Beckham Jr.
Ereck Flowers
Eli Apple
Evan Engram
Saquon Barkley
Daniel Jones
Dexter Lawrence
DeAndre Baker
Andrew Thomas
This team can’t even hit on a top 10 pick. I like Judge, but if some new blood can be brought into the front office with a new philosophy, this can turn around quick. The NFL is built that way. It also shows just how disastrous Mara/Gettleman/Abrams/Mara have been. Hopefully Judge can rise to the top of the committee alongside the new GM.
Gettlemen's first year was not a financial cleanup, it was a win one more with Eli, for which he actively advocated. His regime gets full blame for completely misjudging the state of the franchise. To date, he turned over an entire roster and has not replicated any of the talent he dismissed, save for a select few positions.
Some of you are either brave or stupid...now we have to figure out which one.
Some of you are either brave or stupid...now we have to figure out which one.
Googs, well at least in your case, it can be narrowed down to just one choice. Unless there is some bravery in getting banned and reincarnated with another handle.
Seems the opposite of brave, but hey - that's your jam, Ace
Gettlemen's first year was not a financial cleanup, it was a win one more with Eli, for which he actively advocated. His regime gets full blame for completely misjudging the state of the franchise. To date, he turned over an entire roster and has not replicated any of the talent he dismissed, save for a select few positions.
That is the biggest indictment of Gettleman. He purged the roster of the past and built one entirely in his vision. And with ample draft and cap resources. But now his version of the roster may be worse in talent than the one he inherited.
But, hey, at least we have a better culture and locker room! ;)
Trade deadline in Nov 3 and if the Giants aren't sellers on a few more guys this is just really yet another indictment of one of the weakest Front Offices is the NFL.
Need to start getting all the rookies on the field very soon so you can take roll-call as to who is part of the future and who is not. And also need to match that against which positions will be deeper in talent for both free agency and draft so it can help with roster decisions.
And obviously begin search for new GM so need to dial up Ernie Accorsi asap.
Since day one, Getts has been beating his chest saying he knows more than everyone else, combined.
I never got that, I don't know if I missed the interview or what. I understand people overreacted about the analytics thing but I never understood this.
I really think people just don't like him.
I mean come on really?
I like Judge and am cautiously optimistic about Jones. But the Giants have some massive and very difficult/expensive holes to fill. They desperately not only need 1 pass rusher- they need a few. And they need a legit #1 WR and probably a 2 or 3 as well. This is all assuming the OLine can turn it around which is a major major question mark.
It's not easy to find a top WR and edge rusher in one offseason.