Russel 14 interceptions 16 fumbles
Jones 19 interceptions 23 fumbles
I like the kid, I really do. I think he can play in this league but god damn he’s a turnover machine. I don’t know if this is gonna be fixable. He shows us glimpses of brilliance but you’re just waiting for the other shoe to drop. Gun to my head, I don’t think he’s the guy to lead us back to the promise land. I hope he proves me wrong!
Can QB instincts really be improved? I’m not so sure
Add to this the skill players. He's had no run game a lot. He's never even had the full compliment of our very mediocre talent. They've been on the field together for all of 1/2 a game.
And the skill positions come up small for him so often. EE's drop is a prime example. Do you see some catches made around the league? Do we ever just make someone miss?
So, I'm not saying DJ is the answer 100%. To my eye, he has courage and reasonable accuracy, two things hard to teach. He has to read faster (it may help to be in the O more than 1 season), look off coverage better. I think he can develop that. But, without any help at all, how do we evaluate if problem is HIM or just the whole freaking shitshow.
Yeah, none whatsover, at least until Jones turns to "the purple drank" to ease his pain and misery.
Holy shit, indeed Montana.
Sorry Moopsy, I’ll work on that. As for you others who belittled me and my post I kindly ask you both to go piss up a rope.
Yeah, none whatsover, at least until Jones turns to "the purple drank" to ease his pain and misery.
Holy shit, indeed Montana.
It's like Bizzaro world Lou...
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20 games. Too damn lazy to look up fumbles. Dizzle that for me, wouldya?
Sorry Moopsy, I’ll work on that. As for you others who belittled me and my post I kindly ask you both to go piss up a rope.
Absolutely as long as your anchoring the bottom of it!
I like the guy,but until he plays his way out of that, ugly comparisons are fair.
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Are there really any parallels or comparisons at all to draw between Russell and Jones???
Yeah, none whatsover, at least until Jones turns to "the purple drank" to ease his pain and misery.
Holy shit, indeed Montana.
It's like Bizzaro world Lou...
Oh fuck off boomer. We all want the same thing and that’s the Giants to turn things around. I don’t know you from a hole in the wall pal so you can roll over and turn blue for all I care. I’m sick of all you old timers squealing like pigs under a gate. If you don’t like the post just keep scrolling. No need to be a condescending douchebag.
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In comment 15025884 BlueLou'sBack said:
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Are there really any parallels or comparisons at all to draw between Russell and Jones???
Yeah, none whatsover, at least until Jones turns to "the purple drank" to ease his pain and misery.
Holy shit, indeed Montana.
It's like Bizzaro world Lou...
Oh fuck off boomer. We all want the same thing and that’s the Giants to turn things around. I don’t know you from a hole in the wall pal so you can roll over and turn blue for all I care. I’m sick of all you old timers squealing like pigs under a gate. If you don’t like the post just keep scrolling. No need to be a condescending douchebag.
You deserve to be mocked, cherry picking stats for your narrative.
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In comment 15025887 montanagiant said:
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In comment 15025884 BlueLou'sBack said:
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Are there really any parallels or comparisons at all to draw between Russell and Jones???
Yeah, none whatsover, at least until Jones turns to "the purple drank" to ease his pain and misery.
Holy shit, indeed Montana.
It's like Bizzaro world Lou...
Oh fuck off boomer. We all want the same thing and that’s the Giants to turn things around. I don’t know you from a hole in the wall pal so you can roll over and turn blue for all I care. I’m sick of all you old timers squealing like pigs under a gate. If you don’t like the post just keep scrolling. No need to be a condescending douchebag.
You deserve to be mocked, cherry picking stats for your narrative.
This! OP, you might have mentioned Russell never had a game with 5 touchdown passes, unlike Jones who had 3 in his rookie year
You should run for politics, you re very good at half truths.
Narratives like yours crop up here every day, they are very frustrating, but not very credible.
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In comment 15025892 MtDizzle said:
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In comment 15025887 montanagiant said:
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In comment 15025884 BlueLou'sBack said:
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Are there really any parallels or comparisons at all to draw between Russell and Jones???
Yeah, none whatsover, at least until Jones turns to "the purple drank" to ease his pain and misery.
Holy shit, indeed Montana.
It's like Bizzaro world Lou...
Oh fuck off boomer. We all want the same thing and that’s the Giants to turn things around. I don’t know you from a hole in the wall pal so you can roll over and turn blue for all I care. I’m sick of all you old timers squealing like pigs under a gate. If you don’t like the post just keep scrolling. No need to be a condescending douchebag.
You deserve to be mocked, cherry picking stats for your narrative.
This! OP, you might have mentioned Russell never had a game with 5 touchdown passes, unlike Jones who had 3 in his rookie year
You should run for politics, you re very good at half truths.
Narratives like yours crop up here every day, they are very frustrating, but not very credible.
Well said. What a waste of a thread. Though it was nice to see some stats the OP conveniently left out. ;-)
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In comment 15025892 MtDizzle said:
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In comment 15025887 montanagiant said:
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In comment 15025884 BlueLou'sBack said:
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Are there really any parallels or comparisons at all to draw between Russell and Jones???
Yeah, none whatsover, at least until Jones turns to "the purple drank" to ease his pain and misery.
Holy shit, indeed Montana.
It's like Bizzaro world Lou...
Oh fuck off boomer. We all want the same thing and that’s the Giants to turn things around. I don’t know you from a hole in the wall pal so you can roll over and turn blue for all I care. I’m sick of all you old timers squealing like pigs under a gate. If you don’t like the post just keep scrolling. No need to be a condescending douchebag.
You deserve to be mocked, cherry picking stats for your narrative.
This! OP, you might have mentioned Russell never had a game with 5 touchdown passes, unlike Jones who had 3 in his rookie year
.
Well. He had one game with 5. Two games with 4. For the record.
The real problem is that we now have a full generation of posters who learned their football from playing Madden then honed their skills in Fantasy Leagues ... The virus has them ‘working from home’ with too much time on their hands so when they’re done playing with themselves they dream up shit like this.
Haha. A simple wrong would have been OK
Imagine if this board was around during the first 5 years of the Simms era?
Maybe if you show the whole picture next time like TD's (JR only 18 over 31 games vs DJ 29 over 20 games) and Completion % (JR 52.06% over 31 games vs DJ 61.9 over 20 games) Yards passing (JR 4083 over 31 games vs DJ 4437 over 20 games)
I don’t think Jones is really talented at all actually. He’s fast for a QB. Ok. Where’s the talent? His arm? Pocket instincts? Anticipation? Decision making? Winston is/was more talented than Jones, but he’s a colossal dumb fuck.
I can also see why teams wouldn’t touch him.
You can hand pick whatever stats you like to make Jones the next Jamarcus Russell or the next Peyton Manning. They are both pointless exercises.
If you want to provide some great insight into Jones as a QB, how about discussing his very own accuracy, pocket presence, ball security, running ability and intangibles? Trying to tether early career stats to someone you like or don't like is idiocy.
Morons and trolls baby... morons and trolls.
Watch out, Glickman had a rifle when he was 15
Russell
31 games:
52.1% comp
4038 yards
18 TD's 23 INTS
Jones
20 games
61.9% comp
4437 yards
29TD's 19INT
11 less games and more yards and TD's
What was the comp you were blabbing about again?
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In comment 15025884 BlueLou'sBack said:
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Are there really any parallels or comparisons at all to draw between Russell and Jones???
Yeah, none whatsover, at least until Jones turns to "the purple drank" to ease his pain and misery.
Holy shit, indeed Montana.
It's like Bizzaro world Lou...
Oh fuck off boomer. We all want the same thing and that’s the Giants to turn things around. I don’t know you from a hole in the wall pal so you can roll over and turn blue for all I care. I’m sick of all you old timers squealing like pigs under a gate. If you don’t like the post just keep scrolling. No need to be a condescending douchebag.
Ah and there we go. Obviously a teenager who gets cornered and immediately rolls out the derogatory "boomer" comment when in trouble. Like calling someone an old fart is acceptable today in this PC world, and like you actually know how old he is anyway
Daniel Jones: 29 TD's, 4437 yards, times sacked: 58
Tom Brady: 29 TD's, 4175 yards, times sacked: 47
If they saw the following Daniel Jones stats:
Completions
2019 (13 games): 284
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 266
Attempts
2019 (13 games): 459
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 429
% Completions
2019 (13 games): 61.9%
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 61.9%
Passing Yardage
2019 (13 games): 3,027
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 2,619
TDs
2019 (13 games): 24
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 9
Interceptions
2019 (13 games): 12
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 13
Sacks
2019 (13 games): 38
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 37
Fumbles
2019 (13 games): 12
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 7
Fumbles Lost
2019 (13 games): 8
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 6
If they saw the following Daniel Jones stats:
Completions
2019 (13 games): 284
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 266
Attempts
2019 (13 games): 459
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 429
% Completions
2019 (13 games): 61.9%
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 61.9%
Passing Yardage
2019 (13 games): 3,027
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 2,619
TDs
2019 (13 games): 24
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 9
Interceptions
2019 (13 games): 12
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 13
Sacks
2019 (13 games): 38
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 37
Fumbles
2019 (13 games): 12
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 7
Fumbles Lost
2019 (13 games): 8
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 6
Those would be pathetic passing numbers if the pro-rated numbers pan out. Even if Jones does slightly better, his season numbers are going to look horrific in today’s NFL. They’d be bad numbers in the fucking 70’s and 80’s...
Russell
31 games:
52.1% comp
4038 yards
18 TD's 23 INTS
Jones
20 games
61.9% comp
4437 yards
29TD's 19INT
11 less games and more yards and TD's
What was the comp you were blabbing about again?
So, we’re just ignoring fumbles? This is the biggest concern, can’t just exclude it from the stats.
If they saw the following Daniel Jones stats:
Completions
2019 (13 games): 284
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 266
Attempts
2019 (13 games): 459
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 429
% Completions
2019 (13 games): 61.9%
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 61.9%
Passing Yardage
2019 (13 games): 3,027
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 2,619
TDs
2019 (13 games): 24
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 9
Interceptions
2019 (13 games): 12
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 13
Sacks
2019 (13 games): 38
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 37
Fumbles
2019 (13 games): 12
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 7
Fumbles Lost
2019 (13 games): 8
2020 (13 games pro-rated): 6
Well, logic would say, how, and why did Jones accomplish those numbers? The easy thing to do would be to look at those stats and say "He sucks".
First 20 career games (not starts since for the record Jones only has 19 starts)
Daniel Jones: 29 TD's, 4437 yards, times sacked: 58
Tom Brady: 29 TD's, 4175 yards, times sacked: 47
[quote] A majority of QB's in their first 20 games have similar stats. This post is irrelevant.
you are too level headed for this board. ;-)
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In comment 15025895 BigBlueJ said:
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In comment 15025892 MtDizzle said:
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In comment 15025887 montanagiant said:
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In comment 15025884 BlueLou'sBack said:
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Are there really any parallels or comparisons at all to draw between Russell and Jones???
Yeah, none whatsover, at least until Jones turns to "the purple drank" to ease his pain and misery.
Holy shit, indeed Montana.
It's like Bizzaro world Lou...
Oh fuck off boomer. We all want the same thing and that’s the Giants to turn things around. I don’t know you from a hole in the wall pal so you can roll over and turn blue for all I care. I’m sick of all you old timers squealing like pigs under a gate. If you don’t like the post just keep scrolling. No need to be a condescending douchebag.
You deserve to be mocked, cherry picking stats for your narrative.
This! OP, you might have mentioned Russell never had a game with 5 touchdown passes, unlike Jones who had 3 in his rookie year
.
Well. He had one game with 5. Two games with 4. For the record.
Should have said in one season has Jones did
Therein lies the issue. Unless something drastically changes this year, we're going to enter 2021 with the same questions about him as we did this year. Is this team one offseason away from putting together a decent line and acquiring "some" (I assume you mean multiple) playmakers? I know it seems like I have an agenda against the guy, but I just don't think the timeline of this team fits Jones. Its year 3 of Gettleman and even the most optimistic fan would have to admit we're still early in the rebuild. We'd be wasting the prime years of Jones' value on his rookie deal floundering around trying to build a roster around him and then find yourself potentially needing to extend him before the team even goes 8-8 with him.
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BUT, how many of the turnovers were fumbles caused by historically bad O-Line's allowing defenders to hit him almost as soon as he takes the snap? How many int's were due to him desperately trying to force the ball into a small window to make a play when his WR's and TE couldn't get separation? I think the lack of talent on this team has magnified/exaggerated his propensity to turn over the ball. Get him a decent line and some playmakers and the TO's will stop.
Therein lies the issue. Unless something drastically changes this year, we're going to enter 2021 with the same questions about him as we did this year. Is this team one offseason away from putting together a decent line and acquiring "some" (I assume you mean multiple) playmakers? I know it seems like I have an agenda against the guy, but I just don't think the timeline of this team fits Jones. Its year 3 of Gettleman and even the most optimistic fan would have to admit we're still early in the rebuild. We'd be wasting the prime years of Jones' value on his rookie deal floundering around trying to build a roster around him and then find yourself potentially needing to extend him before the team even goes 8-8 with him.
too much is being made of QB rookie contract. It is more important to get an elite QB. If Jones was elite we would keep him beyond the rookie deal. But he is not.
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instead:
Russell
31 games:
52.1% comp
4038 yards
18 TD's 23 INTS
Jones
20 games
61.9% comp
4437 yards
29TD's 19INT
11 less games and more yards and TD's
What was the comp you were blabbing about again?
So, we’re just ignoring fumbles? This is the biggest concern, can’t just exclude it from the stats.
I'm showing the stats that most rational people look at. The OP would make you believe that the two QB's are similar - their level of play says otherwise.
None of this history is particularly relevant to Daniel Jones, but at least it’s history most of us witnessed first-hand. Jamarcus Russell is just a stat line from the same period. If we’re going to invoke the Hindu Theory, let’s at least reincarnate a more familiar spirit.
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In comment 15025884 BlueLou'sBack said:
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Are there really any parallels or comparisons at all to draw between Russell and Jones???
Yeah, none whatsover, at least until Jones turns to "the purple drank" to ease his pain and misery.
Holy shit, indeed Montana.
It's like Bizzaro world Lou...
Oh fuck off boomer. We all want the same thing and that’s the Giants to turn things around. I don’t know you from a hole in the wall pal so you can roll over and turn blue for all I care. I’m sick of all you old timers squealing like pigs under a gate. If you don’t like the post just keep scrolling. No need to be a condescending douchebag.
The rules of double "Z" in a handle = a fucking idiot yet again proves itself correct
LMAO
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WTF has happened to this board....
The real problem is that we now have a full generation of posters who learned their football from playing Madden then honed their skills in Fantasy Leagues ... The virus has them ‘working from home’ with too much time on their hands so when they’re done playing with themselves they dream up shit like this.
Pretty much nailed it Spider
Transition plans are more a construct of contract status and less about objectively evaluating the available talent. "Transitioning" from Eli hasn't saved us any pain in the short term as it turns out and a redraft of quarterbacks from this year and last would yield different results.
The low floor has been seen aplenty so far, TO machine, too slow to process the field, making poor decisions ofyen in absolutely critical instances.
The ceiling is defined by athleticism, very good arm talent vis a vis placement and touch both, consistency of arm mechanics, prototypical size, toughness vs duress.
These are very valuable traits. If he sorts out his processing and decision making issues, and the team puts a better OL in front of him, I think his upside is Joe Montana-ish.
OK we don't have Bill Walsh here, so under Garrett I would say his upside is to be a bigger more athletic Tony Romo. Who was a much better QB than most BBIERS will acknowledge.
The Giants have to understand what Jones is: a good athlete (though more straight line than jitterbug), tough, accurate thrower who doesn't read defenses well and has no pocket presence. There's some stuff to work with there, but the offense has to be changed from what it currently is to maximize him.
Further, they are now at the point where they have to ask themselves if he is worth a second contract. Unless the answer is a resounding "YES!", they should start exploring trades. While he has some good tools, he can be replaced with a draft pick (and it doesn't have to be the 6th overall) or a mid-level veteran.
Than you can stare at it and think for as long as you want.
Justin Herbert 2020 weeks 1-7 (5 starts - 184 attempts) - 65%, 1,542 yards (8.4 y/a), 12td/3int
Herbert has been historically excellent (on par with Mahomes) but last year Daniel Jones wasn't that far behind. His 16 game pace was 30+ TDs and 4k yards after all, with basically the same group of receivers he has this year.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3917792/type/nfl/year/2019 - ( New Window )
Justin Herbert 2020 weeks 1-7 (5 starts - 184 attempts) - 65%, 1,542 yards (8.4 y/a), 12td/3int
Herbert has been historically excellent (on par with Mahomes) but last year Daniel Jones wasn't that far behind. His 16 game pace was 30+ TDs and 4k yards after all, with basically the same group of receivers he has this year. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3917792/type/nfl/year/2019 - ( New Window )
Let me add one to that....
Jones: 2-4
Herbert: 1-4
So like everything else, guess we’ll just have to wait and see....
Shiny objects. And I like Herbert, btw. He looks great.
That is clearly cause for concern.
Granted - the Giants are only 7 games into the season and there is time for him to turn it around.
BUT - if you're not concerned - you're not paying attention OR you have have your Big Blue sunglasses on.
The minute he declared for the draft The Mara's and gettleman were in heat for all the wrong reasons.
His ceiling is Alex Smith in KC and the Giants don't have Andy Reid to mentor him. The guy running the Giants offense couldn't win playoffs games with 3 All Pros on his OL and one of the best RBs in the NFL.
Justin Herbert 2020 weeks 1-7 (5 starts - 184 attempts) - 65%, 1,542 yards (8.4 y/a), 12td/3int
Herbert has been historically excellent (on par with Mahomes) but last year Daniel Jones wasn't that far behind. His 16 game pace was 30+ TDs and 4k yards after all, with basically the same group of receivers he has this year. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3917792/type/nfl/year/2019 - ( New Window )
In every respect Herbert bests Jones, in this comparison, and no Jones is not right behind. 4 points in compl pct., 2 whole points in y/a, these are huge differences. As is their TD/int ratio. this comparison is not close if you know what you're looking at.
New head coach and OC/new system
New offensive line configuration
No preseason
Lost biggest offensive weapon
Average receivers/te
Whether you call these “excuses” or not, they are very real factors.
A new regime will have no allegiance to make him the center of a re-build.
The clock is ticking.
New head coach and OC/new system
New offensive line configuration
No preseason
Lost biggest offensive weapon
Average receivers/te
Whether you call these “excuses” or not, they are very real factors.
They are, but the risk is that if there is no rebound then we have 'lost' another year and passed on one of th best QB prospects in a while (assuming we would be in position to select him).
I am glad I dont have to be the one making the decision one way or the other. It's probably a career defining decsision by the FO.
Hopefully that will be because of some real progress on the back end of this, something to build on, and not some fluke wins at the end against teams who quit like in years past.
Oh, stop. This team has 10 wins over the past three seasons and some fans keep defending them.
You're what happened to this board.
The minute he declared for the draft The Mara's and gettleman were in heat for all the wrong reasons.
His ceiling is Alex Smith in KC and the Giants don't have Andy Reid to mentor him. The guy running the Giants offense couldn't win playoffs games with 3 All Pros on his OL and one of the best RBs in the NFL.
Exactly. Not many had him as a first rounder. Cosell discussed him behind Lock. His only elite skill is long speed.
The minute he declared for the draft The Mara's and gettleman were in heat for all the wrong reasons.
His ceiling is Alex Smith in KC and the Giants don't have Andy Reid to mentor him. The guy running the Giants offense couldn't win playoffs games with 3 All Pros on his OL and one of the best RBs in the NFL.
He was never considered an elite prospect BY YOU. Sy stated numerous times before the draft that many NFL front offices were much higher on Jones than the media. And what you think or what the mnedia thinks of Jones is entirely irrelevant
4 years, $134M, $110M guaranteed
Goff got that contract after these first 3 years in the NFL:
2016: 0-7 record, 54.6%, 5.3 YPA, 5TD, 7INT, 1089 yards
2017 (learning a new system): 11-4, 62.1%, 8.0, 28/7, 3804
2018: 13-3, 64.9%, 8.4, 32/12, 4688
Goff is not an elite QB, but he's alright. His second season in a new system is way better than what Jones is doing.
If we're being VERY kind to Jones and putting him at Goff's level, are we OK paying him Goff's contract after 2021? Because if we're not, then what are we doing here?
That's what I don't understand. The rush to judgement.
That's what I don't understand. The rush to judgement.
only relevant based on where the Giants pick in the draft. Kind of need to know if they have a chance at Lawrence if they should take it and trade Jones or if Jones is the guy and they could get a haul for allowing someone to trade up for Lawrence.
Some say, it's irrelevant if the Giants are picking #1 they take Lawrence. Others it's not as clear.
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and Jones may look a lot different. Why do we have to decide now, as if what he is currently is what he will always be?
That's what I don't understand. The rush to judgement.
only relevant based on where the Giants pick in the draft. Kind of need to know if they have a chance at Lawrence if they should take it and trade Jones or if Jones is the guy and they could get a haul for allowing someone to trade up for Lawrence.
Some say, it's irrelevant if the Giants are picking #1 they take Lawrence. Others it's not as clear.
Yes, if they are picking #1 overall, that definitely is a different discussion. That said, gun to your head with your house on the line, do you think it's more like the the Giants are picking in the 1-2 range, or the 4-6 range? I just don't see the Giants having the number one overall pick this year. I think the odds are against it.
That's what I don't understand. The rush to judgement.
It's not a rush to judgment; it's foresight and resource allocation - an area where this organization has failed these last three years with Eli, Beckham, and Barkley.
If Jones doesn't turn it around this season and finish strong, why stick with him? 2 years of his rookie deal will be gone with nothing to show...why give him the benefit of the doubt?
Further - is this team going to compete for a title next year? Almost certainly not. So that's 3 years from Jones's rookie deal that are gone. Why not cut bait, trade him for a 3rd rounder, draft another QB, and reset the QB rookie contract clock?
Foresight and resource allocation - let's start thinking about these decisions in that perspective instead of just hoping good shit befalls us.
He has shown some pretty talented skill along with the warts. Let's see what he is at the end of the season.
Or Bill Walsh taught him that, and in HIS SYSTEM - Walsh's.
Heck he didn't become the starting QB (was behind DeBerg) until mid year two.
Maybe Jones never gets it, but he's got a good OC now with a history of developing QBs.
He has shown some pretty talented skill along with the warts. Let's see what he is at the end of the season.
He's getting time right now. By the end of the season we'll have seen 28 starts. Unless something changes drastically in these last 9 starts, the smartest allocation of resources is to shop him. He isn't currently doing anything special that can't be reasonably assumed from a future mid round draft pick.
I hope we see drastic improvement, but there is no reason to expect it other than hope - which has been the modus operandi here for years.
And it would ruin the only day the team has any relevance anymore.
Round One of the Draft.
The consistent player comps are Ryan Tannehill, Josh McCowen, Josh Allen. I think his ceiling is Alex Smith KC.
There were concerns about turnovers, there were concerns about him needing time before playing and early success being essential to him making it. Interesting reading I think.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/daniel-jones
https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019danieljones.php
https://sny.tv/articles/scouting-report-for-nfl-draft-prospect-daniel-jones-do-giants-nab-him-at-no-17
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/daniel-jones-nfl-draft-profile-everything-to-know-about-team-fits-strengths-and-more/
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823982-daniel-jones-nfl-draft-2019-scouting-report-for-new-york-giants-pick
https://247sports.com/college/duke/Article/Daniel-Jones-Giants-draft-reaction-NFL-scouts-executives-like-pick-Duke-134112704/
https://www.thephinsider.com/2019/4/21/18509816/miami-dolphins-draft-targets-2019-profile-nfl-draft-daniel-jones-duke-qb
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/17/film-room-scouting-report-daniel-jones-duke
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and let it breathe a little. I'm not talking about anything else, just Jones.
He has shown some pretty talented skill along with the warts. Let's see what he is at the end of the season.
He's getting time right now. By the end of the season we'll have seen 28 starts. Unless something changes drastically in these last 9 starts, the smartest allocation of resources is to shop him. He isn't currently doing anything special that can't be reasonably assumed from a future mid round draft pick.
I hope we see drastic improvement, but there is no reason to expect it other than hope - which has been the modus operandi here for years.
If the Giants finish 4-12 (I think that’s a fair assessment) with Jones maintaining the same level of play the rest of the year, I’d find it hard to believe there wouldn’t be better options in the draft. We heard the Giants carefully scouted Herbert even this year.
I’m surprised there isn’t more frustration with Jones. We were all pissed at Engram for the drop last week, but I was just as pissed off with the fumble loss TD in the Dallas game. That fumble flipped the game and ultimately cost the Giants the game.
I get the OL stinks, but it’s still the responsibility of the QB to hold onto the ball. I’m tired of the excuses on the turnovers. The turnovers are happening at an alarming rate.
Justin Herbert 2020 weeks 1-7 (5 starts - 184 attempts) - 65%, 1,542 yards (8.4 y/a), 12td/3int
Herbert has been historically excellent (on par with Mahomes) but last year Daniel Jones wasn't that far behind. His 16 game pace was 30+ TDs and 4k yards after all, with basically the same group of receivers he has this year. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3917792/type/nfl/year/2019 - ( New Window )
With all due respect, that difference is YPA is significant. And shouldn't be overlooked.
Have you seen Herbert play, btw? Not being patronizing, but he's making throws that are upper class. The ball is getting there in a hurry and in some tight windows. It's very impressive.
The consistent player comps are Ryan Tannehill, Josh McCowen, Josh Allen. I think his ceiling is Alex Smith KC.
There were concerns about turnovers, there were concerns about him needing time before playing and early success being essential to him making it. Interesting reading I think.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/daniel-jones
https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019danieljones.php
https://sny.tv/articles/scouting-report-for-nfl-draft-prospect-daniel-jones-do-giants-nab-him-at-no-17
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/daniel-jones-nfl-draft-profile-everything-to-know-about-team-fits-strengths-and-more/
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823982-daniel-jones-nfl-draft-2019-scouting-report-for-new-york-giants-pick
https://247sports.com/college/duke/Article/Daniel-Jones-Giants-draft-reaction-NFL-scouts-executives-like-pick-Duke-134112704/
https://www.thephinsider.com/2019/4/21/18509816/miami-dolphins-draft-targets-2019-profile-nfl-draft-daniel-jones-duke-qb
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/17/film-room-scouting-report-daniel-jones-duke
Does Covid causing him to be unable to practice with teammates as much as normal?
Would ZERO preseason games matter?
How about experiencing more pressure than anyone else in the sport?
How about an entire new coaching staff and a completely different offense?
Losing your best offensive player?
Receivers with the worst separation in the league?
Does any of that matter at all or just no biggie?
If the Giants finish 4-12 (I think that’s a fair assessment) with Jones maintaining the same level of play the rest of the year, I’d find it hard to believe there wouldn’t be better options in the draft. We heard the Giants carefully scouted Herbert even this year.
I’m surprised there isn’t more frustration with Jones. We were all pissed at Engram for the drop last week, but I was just as pissed off with the fumble loss TD in the Dallas game. That fumble flipped the game and ultimately cost the Giants the game.
I get the OL stinks, but it’s still the responsibility of the QB to hold onto the ball. I’m tired of the excuses on the turnovers. The turnovers are happening at an alarming rate.
Are you also tired of our Left Tackle Leading the league in pressures allowed, by an almost historic margin?? LT is a premier position for a reason, you just can’t ignore it, especially when you use a strip sack from the blind side to make your point.
4 years, $134M, $110M guaranteed
Goff got that contract after these first 3 years in the NFL:
2016: 0-7 record, 54.6%, 5.3 YPA, 5TD, 7INT, 1089 yards
2017 (learning a new system): 11-4, 62.1%, 8.0, 28/7, 3804
2018: 13-3, 64.9%, 8.4, 32/12, 4688
Goff is not an elite QB, but he's alright. His second season in a new system is way better than what Jones is doing.
If we're being VERY kind to Jones and putting him at Goff's level, are we OK paying him Goff's contract after 2021? Because if we're not, then what are we doing here?
Just an aside to this...Goff is one tough SOB in the pocket. When he was at Cal his final season, he made some of the most amazing throws. Sonny Dykes's offense - the height of minimum to zero protection - was getting Goff killed. But Goff would hang in there, go through his reads, and deliver the throw
I don't think he's a great talent overall - his arm is slightly above average, decent wheels, etc - but he still hangs in the pocket and waits for the play to develop. So to an earlier point you made, that is not a quality that Jones current possesses.
I get you're desperate for Jones to be a really good QB.
That doesn't make him one and if you watch Burrow and Herbert every week who are ROOKIES dealing with all the excuses you're making for Jones you'll see why people who watch more than the Giants games are ready to move on.
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WTF has happened to this board....
Oh, stop. This team has 10 wins over the past three seasons and some fans keep defending them.
You're what happened to this board.
Look my butthurt stalker is back...LOL
I don't think the Alex Smith comp is correct. Perhaps that is his upside, but Smith is a disciplined, accurate QB who doesn't get easily flustered. Right now Jones is none of those things. Right now Jones is very poor with flashes of good play and is more similar to Trubisky, Mariota or Osweiler, imo. He needs to take a step up to be compared to actual, successful QBs.
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Daniel Jones 2019 weeks 1-8 (6 starts - 243 attempts) - 61%, 1,561 yards (6.4 ypa), 14td/5int
Justin Herbert 2020 weeks 1-7 (5 starts - 184 attempts) - 65%, 1,542 yards (8.4 y/a), 12td/3int
Herbert has been historically excellent (on par with Mahomes) but last year Daniel Jones wasn't that far behind. His 16 game pace was 30+ TDs and 4k yards after all, with basically the same group of receivers he has this year. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3917792/type/nfl/year/2019 - ( New Window )
With all due respect, that difference is YPA is significant. And shouldn't be overlooked.
Have you seen Herbert play, btw? Not being patronizing, but he's making throws that are upper class. The ball is getting there in a hurry and in some tight windows. It's very impressive.
I've seen almost every game Herbert has played so far (live in CA and as a former Dak owner in FF he's now my starting QB). he has looked as good as a QB can look (rookie or not). I was not a big Herbert fan as a draft prospect and as much as an opinion can be shifted in 5 or 6 games he's done it.
My point was simply Jones' year last season wasn't too far behind with inferior weapons. Remember Engram + Shepard missed most of his starts last year. Saquon missed half of them and wasn't himself until the last few games. And still Jones was on pace for 30 touchdowns with a rookie in Slayton, an aging Tate, and Kaden Smith off waivers being his 3 leading receivers most weeks.
That's a far cry from Keenan Allen who has been excellent as usual, Hunter Henry would be one of the better all around TE's in football when healthy, and Mike Williams who makes acrobatic catches every game even if he hasn't put it all together yet. Even Guyton has even added a deep dimension.
Jones is having a sophmore slump but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, especially since he's shown progress the last few weeks. Garrett's system has left a lot to be desired - especially his usage of Engram and Tate relative to where they were successful last year (and as evidenced last Thursday).
It would be nice if we could just have some consistency in these discussions realizing that guys like Mahomes, Wilson, and Lamar Jackson benefitted greatly by stepping on the field for teams that were already very strong around them.
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In comment 15026301 Eric on Li said:
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Daniel Jones 2019 weeks 1-8 (6 starts - 243 attempts) - 61%, 1,561 yards (6.4 ypa), 14td/5int
Justin Herbert 2020 weeks 1-7 (5 starts - 184 attempts) - 65%, 1,542 yards (8.4 y/a), 12td/3int
Herbert has been historically excellent (on par with Mahomes) but last year Daniel Jones wasn't that far behind. His 16 game pace was 30+ TDs and 4k yards after all, with basically the same group of receivers he has this year. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3917792/type/nfl/year/2019 - ( New Window )
With all due respect, that difference is YPA is significant. And shouldn't be overlooked.
Have you seen Herbert play, btw? Not being patronizing, but he's making throws that are upper class. The ball is getting there in a hurry and in some tight windows. It's very impressive.
I've seen almost every game Herbert has played so far (live in CA and as a former Dak owner in FF he's now my starting QB). he has looked as good as a QB can look (rookie or not). I was not a big Herbert fan as a draft prospect and as much as an opinion can be shifted in 5 or 6 games he's done it.
My point was simply Jones' year last season wasn't too far behind with inferior weapons. Remember Engram + Shepard missed most of his starts last year. Saquon missed half of them and wasn't himself until the last few games. And still Jones was on pace for 30 touchdowns with a rookie in Slayton, an aging Tate, and Kaden Smith off waivers being his 3 leading receivers most weeks.
That's a far cry from Keenan Allen who has been excellent as usual, Hunter Henry would be one of the better all around TE's in football when healthy, and Mike Williams who makes acrobatic catches every game even if he hasn't put it all together yet. Even Guyton has even added a deep dimension.
Jones is having a sophmore slump but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, especially since he's shown progress the last few weeks. Garrett's system has left a lot to be desired - especially his usage of Engram and Tate relative to where they were successful last year (and as evidenced last Thursday).
Jonbes is VERY FAR BEHIND Herbert. I challenge you to find a single reputable analyst that would place these two players in the same class right now. You are dreaming if you don;t think there is an enormous gulf between them. It is plain and simple. Greg Cosell for instance is gushing over Herbert, he loves his size, his arm talent, his toughness, his movement, his decisiveness and bravery making tough throws. I can't even find Cosell analysis of Jones this season and I have listened to every podcast he has done. And he has discussed, Darnold, Minshew, Kyler, Lamar, Allen, Burrow, even Haskins IN DEPTH. Jones is an after thought right now. And Herbert is the hottest QB commodity since Mahomes.
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In comment 15026402 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15026301 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Daniel Jones 2019 weeks 1-8 (6 starts - 243 attempts) - 61%, 1,561 yards (6.4 ypa), 14td/5int
Justin Herbert 2020 weeks 1-7 (5 starts - 184 attempts) - 65%, 1,542 yards (8.4 y/a), 12td/3int
Herbert has been historically excellent (on par with Mahomes) but last year Daniel Jones wasn't that far behind. His 16 game pace was 30+ TDs and 4k yards after all, with basically the same group of receivers he has this year. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3917792/type/nfl/year/2019 - ( New Window )
With all due respect, that difference is YPA is significant. And shouldn't be overlooked.
Have you seen Herbert play, btw? Not being patronizing, but he's making throws that are upper class. The ball is getting there in a hurry and in some tight windows. It's very impressive.
I've seen almost every game Herbert has played so far (live in CA and as a former Dak owner in FF he's now my starting QB). he has looked as good as a QB can look (rookie or not). I was not a big Herbert fan as a draft prospect and as much as an opinion can be shifted in 5 or 6 games he's done it.
My point was simply Jones' year last season wasn't too far behind with inferior weapons. Remember Engram + Shepard missed most of his starts last year. Saquon missed half of them and wasn't himself until the last few games. And still Jones was on pace for 30 touchdowns with a rookie in Slayton, an aging Tate, and Kaden Smith off waivers being his 3 leading receivers most weeks.
That's a far cry from Keenan Allen who has been excellent as usual, Hunter Henry would be one of the better all around TE's in football when healthy, and Mike Williams who makes acrobatic catches every game even if he hasn't put it all together yet. Even Guyton has even added a deep dimension.
Jones is having a sophmore slump but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, especially since he's shown progress the last few weeks. Garrett's system has left a lot to be desired - especially his usage of Engram and Tate relative to where they were successful last year (and as evidenced last Thursday).
Jonbes is VERY FAR BEHIND Herbert. I challenge you to find a single reputable analyst that would place these two players in the same class right now. You are dreaming if you don;t think there is an enormous gulf between them. It is plain and simple. Greg Cosell for instance is gushing over Herbert, he loves his size, his arm talent, his toughness, his movement, his decisiveness and bravery making tough throws. I can't even find Cosell analysis of Jones this season and I have listened to every podcast he has done. And he has discussed, Darnold, Minshew, Kyler, Lamar, Allen, Burrow, even Haskins IN DEPTH. Jones is an after thought right now. And Herbert is the hottest QB commodity since Mahomes.
Herbert has looked very good but we only have a 3 game window to base that on. If you look at Jones's first year he was every bit as good.
Let's give it a full season and then we have enough to do a real comparison. I would love to see Jones behind an avg O-Line with a true #1 WR. I believe all of us would be more than happy with what we see if that ever happens
@DDuggan21
·
3h
This, from the Giants, is ... something: In the NFL’s 101-season history, more than 1,800 players have 75 or more rushing attempts. Only one player among them has a per-carry average of at least 7.6 yards. That player is Daniel Jones.
@DanSchneierNFL
·
6h
Before you give up on Daniel Jones, did you know the #Giants have PFF's dead last (Andrew Thomas) and second-to-last (Cam Fleming) graded OTs in pass pro (of 57 OTs who qualify)?
They combine to allow 57 pressures in 7 games.
The #Browns entire Oline has allowed 40 pressures.
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Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
3h
This, from the Giants, is ... something: In the NFL’s 101-season history, more than 1,800 players have 75 or more rushing attempts. Only one player among them has a per-carry average of at least 7.6 yards. That player is Daniel Jones.
And we have an OC that doesn't design the offense around that strength.
Excuses and all.
Jones reached a top speed of 21 MPH the other night, which eclipses Lamar Jackson's best, and better than ANY QB in the NFL since 2018.
The next part is from Giants.com:
Lamar Jackson (Baltimore) - 1,552
Kyler Murray (Arizona) - 981
Josh Allen (Buffalo) - 714
Russell Wilson (Seattle) - 579
Daniel Jones (Giants) - 575
Jones leads the Giants with 296 rushing yards on 31 carries, a 9.5-yard average that is the highest by an NFL quarterback with that many attempts since 1992, when Pro Football Hall of Famer Steve Young averaged 9.6 yards (297 yards through 31 carries) for the San Francisco 49ers. The last NFL player to maintain such a high average at this statistical juncture was wide receiver Tavon Austin, who gained 303 yards on his first 31 carries (9.8-yard avg.) for the 2015 St. Louis Rams.
More from Giants.com:
Fran Tarkenton (1967-68) - 41
Charlie Conerly (1948-49) - 36
Y.A. Tittle (1961-62) - 33
Earl Morrall (1965-66) - 29
Daniel Jones (2019-20) - 29
A lot more statistical tidbits here on Giants.com if you're interested:
Link - ( New Window )
Excuses and all.
I don't think Jones sucks. I think he's got some good and some bad, is unlikely to ever be great, and thus the team should be looking to maximize what's left of the asset and move on.
As for the OC, he sucks.
I don't think the Alex Smith comp is correct. Perhaps that is his upside, but Smith is a disciplined, accurate QB who doesn't get easily flustered. Right now Jones is none of those things. Right now Jones is very poor with flashes of good play and is more similar to Trubisky, Mariota or Osweiler, imo. He needs to take a step up to be compared to actual, successful QBs.
Agree. His ceiling is Alex Smith or Ryan Tannehill. Ironically, I think Jones is exactly what Getty had in mind when he talked about QB hell. There’s people here who say Jones flashes greatness and I just don’t see that. I see Jones make some nice throws every game but, most guys in the NFL do too.
That's been established early. We've moved beyond that.
No worries, I'm going to start a new thread to get off this one. I don't want those stats buried.
yea what Britt said. Jamarcus is an epic bust and he's on a short list of busts that big. Now we're comparing Jones to Alex Smith and Justin Herbert.
Too bad it generated revenue for the website and got people talking. I guess I can stop positing and this place can be as quiet as a funeral home. I was always told Giants fans are a box and wine type crowd and this place really shows that.
Okay then.
These stats are extremely relevant and very much NOT in isolation as people seem to want to do.
Okay then.
Yet your fat ass is still here chirping away at me. Again.
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Generated revenue??
Okay then.
Yet your fat ass is still here chirping away at me. Again.
Just giving my two cents, Pal.
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JaMarcus Russell is one of the biggest busts in NFL history. Jones, for all his faults, is a million times better than Russell.
Too bad it generated revenue for the website and got people talking. I guess I can stop positing and this place can be as quiet as a funeral home. I was always told Giants fans are a box and wine type crowd and this place really shows that.
Go ahead, stop posting, if you can’t handle criticism. We’ll all just have to struggle to get by without you
Users consistently portray this year as if players were not able to do anything.
Tweet - ( New Window )
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WTF has happened to this board....
Oh, stop. This team has 10 wins over the past three seasons and some fans keep defending them.
You're what happened to this board.
Boom!!!
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WTF has happened to this board....
The real problem is that we now have a full generation of posters who learned their football from playing Madden then honed their skills in Fantasy Leagues ... The virus has them ‘working from home’ with too much time on their hands so when they’re done playing with themselves they dream up shit like this.
I can almost guarantee that I'm older than you. I'm definitely smarter than you. And you're a dipshit xenophobe that shouldn't be making generalizations about anyone.
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In comment 15025882 montanagiant said:
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WTF has happened to this board....
Oh, stop. This team has 10 wins over the past three seasons and some fans keep defending them.
You're what happened to this board.
Look my butthurt stalker is back...LOL
You might want to learn some common turns of phrase before you start the namecalling. You might even want to try to hold your own in a debate with me before you start calling me a staker. But nice job trying to punch above your weight.
Maybe start with some Dr. Seuss books first?
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In comment 15026339 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15025882 montanagiant said:
Quote:
WTF has happened to this board....
Oh, stop. This team has 10 wins over the past three seasons and some fans keep defending them.
You're what happened to this board.
Look my butthurt stalker is back...LOL
You might want to learn some common turns of phrase before you start the namecalling. You might even want to try to hold your own in a debate with me before you start calling me a staker. But nice job trying to punch above your weight.
Maybe start with some Dr. Seuss books first?
Go fuck yourself loser, Last time I debated you you got your ass handed to you by myself and multiple others with some idiotic argument you had months ago, and then you ran away like a little bitch because your fragile ego couldn't handle it.
Ever since then you run around taking potshots and running away again when I call out your childish acts. Do us all a favor and stop letting your insecure ego rule how you post on here. You're not the self-called expert you think you are. You're just another couch sitting putz like all of us without any special insight into what the Giants are doing.
If it is so vital to you to think you're important on here then you need much more help than what BBI can provide.
Now go away little boy.