Danny Dimes vs. Jamarcus first 20 career starts

In comment 15026004 Sean said:

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In comment 15025989 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: instead: Russell 31 games: 52.1% comp 4038 yards 18 TD's 23 INTS Jones 20 games 61.9% comp 4437 yards 29TD's 19INT 11 less games and more yards and TD's What was the comp you were blabbing about again? So, we’re just ignoring fumbles? This is the biggest concern, can’t just exclude it from the stats.

I'm showing the stats that most rational people look at. The OP would make you believe that the two QB's are similar - their level of play says otherwise.

... including a few of the most horrendous plays I’ve ever seen by a QB. That was his seventh NFL season, between his two magnificent title runs, with a 2200-yard running game to kep defenses honest. It was also a year plagued with injuries at WR and interior OL, leading Eli to throw into tight windows under more pressure than he had felt in years. Predictably, some bad things happened.

None of this history is particularly relevant to Daniel Jones, but at least it’s history most of us witnessed first-hand. Jamarcus Russell is just a stat line from the same period. If we’re going to invoke the Hindu Theory, let’s at least reincarnate a more familiar spirit.

In comment 15025892 MtDizzle said:

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In comment 15025887 montanagiant said: Quote: In comment 15025884 BlueLou'sBack said: Quote: Are there really any parallels or comparisons at all to draw between Russell and Jones??? Yeah, none whatsover, at least until Jones turns to "the purple drank" to ease his pain and misery. Holy shit, indeed Montana. It's like Bizzaro world Lou... Oh fuck off boomer. We all want the same thing and that’s the Giants to turn things around. I don’t know you from a hole in the wall pal so you can roll over and turn blue for all I care. I’m sick of all you old timers squealing like pigs under a gate. If you don’t like the post just keep scrolling. No need to be a condescending douchebag.

The rules of double "Z" in a handle = a fucking idiot yet again proves itself correct

In comment 15025907 Britt in VA said:

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That about sums up the state of things around here.

LMAO

In comment 15025935 Spider56 said:

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In comment 15025882 montanagiant said: Quote: WTF has happened to this board.... The real problem is that we now have a full generation of posters who learned their football from playing Madden then honed their skills in Fantasy Leagues ... The virus has them ‘working from home’ with too much time on their hands so when they’re done playing with themselves they dream up shit like this.

Pretty much nailed it Spider

In comment 15025876 WinterIsComing said:

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we should have continued to build our roster and waited a year to draft a QB.

Transition plans are more a construct of contract status and less about objectively evaluating the available talent. "Transitioning" from Eli hasn't saved us any pain in the short term as it turns out and a redraft of quarterbacks from this year and last would yield different results.

the eyeball test on Jones so far as a pro tells you pretty clear that he is a high ceiling, low floor type of player.

The low floor has been seen aplenty so far, TO machine, too slow to process the field, making poor decisions ofyen in absolutely critical instances.

The ceiling is defined by athleticism, very good arm talent vis a vis placement and touch both, consistency of arm mechanics, prototypical size, toughness vs duress.

These are very valuable traits. If he sorts out his processing and decision making issues, and the team puts a better OL in front of him, I think his upside is Joe Montana-ish.

OK we don't have Bill Walsh here, so under Garrett I would say his upside is to be a bigger more athletic Tony Romo. Who was a much better QB than most BBIERS will acknowledge.

Problem from Jones is his decision making is just to slow I don't think that can be fixed. Last year as rookie he looked good at times but now the NFL has the tape on him and it's why we see the same defense against him week in and week out. That being said no Lawrence for us or fields we will be picking most likely in the 4 to 6 range so we will have Danny for a while it looks like at least the guy is easy to root for I guess.

Jones is the opposite of Joe Montana. Montana would make 4 reads with a single sweep of his head from one side to the other and have the ball out in 3 seconds. Jones clearly has a hard time getting off his first read.

The Giants have to understand what Jones is: a good athlete (though more straight line than jitterbug), tough, accurate thrower who doesn't read defenses well and has no pocket presence. There's some stuff to work with there, but the offense has to be changed from what it currently is to maximize him.

Further, they are now at the point where they have to ask themselves if he is worth a second contract. Unless the answer is a resounding "YES!", they should start exploring trades. While he has some good tools, he can be replaced with a draft pick (and it doesn't have to be the 6th overall) or a mid-level veteran.

Right next to Submit

Than you can stare at it and think for as long as you want.

Daniel Jones 2019 weeks 1-8 (6 starts - 243 attempts) - 61%, 1,561 yards (6.4 ypa), 14td/5int
Justin Herbert 2020 weeks 1-7 (5 starts - 184 attempts) - 65%, 1,542 yards (8.4 y/a), 12td/3int

Herbert has been historically excellent (on par with Mahomes) but last year Daniel Jones wasn't that far behind. His 16 game pace was 30+ TDs and 4k yards after all, with basically the same group of receivers he has this year.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3917792/type/nfl/year/2019 - ( New Window )

In comment 15026301 Eric on Li said:

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Daniel Jones 2019 weeks 1-8 (6 starts - 243 attempts) - 61%, 1,561 yards (6.4 ypa), 14td/5int Justin Herbert 2020 weeks 1-7 (5 starts - 184 attempts) - 65%, 1,542 yards (8.4 y/a), 12td/3int Herbert has been historically excellent (on par with Mahomes) but last year Daniel Jones wasn't that far behind. His 16 game pace was 30+ TDs and 4k yards after all, with basically the same group of receivers he has this year. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3917792/type/nfl/year/2019 - ( New Window )

Let me add one to that....

Jones: 2-4
Herbert: 1-4

So like everything else, guess we’ll just have to wait and see....

Shiny objects. And I like Herbert, btw. He looks great.

All these stats being referenced do not contemplate the fumbles Jones has had. That is a huge reason there is concern with his prospects here.

We can post stats to tell whatever story we want. The story may be completely untrue, but we can probably find the stats to back up whatever we’re telling.

regression in year 2 and future is the real story here.

That is clearly cause for concern.

Granted - the Giants are only 7 games into the season and there is time for him to turn it around.

BUT - if you're not concerned - you're not paying attention OR you have have your Big Blue sunglasses on.

an elite prospect. He was NEVER discussed being picked in the top 10. Because he doesn't have elite skills.

The minute he declared for the draft The Mara's and gettleman were in heat for all the wrong reasons.

His ceiling is Alex Smith in KC and the Giants don't have Andy Reid to mentor him. The guy running the Giants offense couldn't win playoffs games with 3 All Pros on his OL and one of the best RBs in the NFL.

In comment 15026301 Eric on Li said:

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Daniel Jones 2019 weeks 1-8 (6 starts - 243 attempts) - 61%, 1,561 yards (6.4 ypa), 14td/5int Justin Herbert 2020 weeks 1-7 (5 starts - 184 attempts) - 65%, 1,542 yards (8.4 y/a), 12td/3int Herbert has been historically excellent (on par with Mahomes) but last year Daniel Jones wasn't that far behind. His 16 game pace was 30+ TDs and 4k yards after all, with basically the same group of receivers he has this year. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3917792/type/nfl/year/2019 - ( New Window )

In every respect Herbert bests Jones, in this comparison, and no Jones is not right behind. 4 points in compl pct., 2 whole points in y/a, these are huge differences. As is their TD/int ratio. this comparison is not close if you know what you're looking at.

approach.

New head coach and OC/new system
New offensive line configuration
No preseason
Lost biggest offensive weapon
Average receivers/te

Whether you call these “excuses” or not, they are very real factors.

the problem for DJ is is running out of time to get some good film on tape and make a convincing case to the coaching staff/new GM that he's the guy.

A new regime will have no allegiance to make him the center of a re-build.

The clock is ticking.

In comment 15026331 Britt in VA said:

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approach. New head coach and OC/new system New offensive line configuration No preseason Lost biggest offensive weapon Average receivers/te Whether you call these “excuses” or not, they are very real factors.

They are, but the risk is that if there is no rebound then we have 'lost' another year and passed on one of th best QB prospects in a while (assuming we would be in position to select him).

I am glad I dont have to be the one making the decision one way or the other. It's probably a career defining decsision by the FO.

Or even Fields for that matter. I can see us finishing slightly out of the top five.

Hopefully that will be because of some real progress on the back end of this, something to build on, and not some fluke wins at the end against teams who quit like in years past.

In comment 15025882 montanagiant said:

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WTF has happened to this board....

Oh, stop. This team has 10 wins over the past three seasons and some fans keep defending them.

You're what happened to this board.

In comment 15026326 arniefez said:

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an elite prospect. He was NEVER discussed being picked in the top 10. Because he doesn't have elite skills. The minute he declared for the draft The Mara's and gettleman were in heat for all the wrong reasons. His ceiling is Alex Smith in KC and the Giants don't have Andy Reid to mentor him. The guy running the Giants offense couldn't win playoffs games with 3 All Pros on his OL and one of the best RBs in the NFL.

Exactly. Not many had him as a first rounder. Cosell discussed him behind Lock. His only elite skill is long speed.

In comment 15026326 arniefez said:

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an elite prospect. He was NEVER discussed being picked in the top 10. Because he doesn't have elite skills. The minute he declared for the draft The Mara's and gettleman were in heat for all the wrong reasons. His ceiling is Alex Smith in KC and the Giants don't have Andy Reid to mentor him. The guy running the Giants offense couldn't win playoffs games with 3 All Pros on his OL and one of the best RBs in the NFL.

He was never considered an elite prospect BY YOU. Sy stated numerous times before the draft that many NFL front offices were much higher on Jones than the media. And what you think or what the mnedia thinks of Jones is entirely irrelevant

Is anyone comfortable with the idea of giving Jones a contract on par with, say, what Jared Goff got in September 2019:

4 years, $134M, $110M guaranteed

Goff got that contract after these first 3 years in the NFL:

2016: 0-7 record, 54.6%, 5.3 YPA, 5TD, 7INT, 1089 yards
2017 (learning a new system): 11-4, 62.1%, 8.0, 28/7, 3804
2018: 13-3, 64.9%, 8.4, 32/12, 4688

Goff is not an elite QB, but he's alright. His second season in a new system is way better than what Jones is doing.

If we're being VERY kind to Jones and putting him at Goff's level, are we OK paying him Goff's contract after 2021? Because if we're not, then what are we doing here?

and Jones may look a lot different. Why do we have to decide now, as if what he is currently is what he will always be?

That's what I don't understand. The rush to judgement.

In comment 15026355 Britt in VA said:

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and Jones may look a lot different. Why do we have to decide now, as if what he is currently is what he will always be? That's what I don't understand. The rush to judgement.

only relevant based on where the Giants pick in the draft. Kind of need to know if they have a chance at Lawrence if they should take it and trade Jones or if Jones is the guy and they could get a haul for allowing someone to trade up for Lawrence.

Some say, it's irrelevant if the Giants are picking #1 they take Lawrence. Others it's not as clear.

In comment 15026361 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 15026355 Britt in VA said: Quote: and Jones may look a lot different. Why do we have to decide now, as if what he is currently is what he will always be? That's what I don't understand. The rush to judgement. only relevant based on where the Giants pick in the draft. Kind of need to know if they have a chance at Lawrence if they should take it and trade Jones or if Jones is the guy and they could get a haul for allowing someone to trade up for Lawrence. Some say, it's irrelevant if the Giants are picking #1 they take Lawrence. Others it's not as clear.

Yes, if they are picking #1 overall, that definitely is a different discussion. That said, gun to your head with your house on the line, do you think it's more like the the Giants are picking in the 1-2 range, or the 4-6 range? I just don't see the Giants having the number one overall pick this year. I think the odds are against it.

In comment 15026355 Britt in VA said:

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and Jones may look a lot different. Why do we have to decide now, as if what he is currently is what he will always be? That's what I don't understand. The rush to judgement.

It's not a rush to judgment; it's foresight and resource allocation - an area where this organization has failed these last three years with Eli, Beckham, and Barkley.

If Jones doesn't turn it around this season and finish strong, why stick with him? 2 years of his rookie deal will be gone with nothing to show...why give him the benefit of the doubt?

Further - is this team going to compete for a title next year? Almost certainly not. So that's 3 years from Jones's rookie deal that are gone. Why not cut bait, trade him for a 3rd rounder, draft another QB, and reset the QB rookie contract clock?

Foresight and resource allocation - let's start thinking about these decisions in that perspective instead of just hoping good shit befalls us.

and let it breathe a little. I'm not talking about anything else, just Jones.

He has shown some pretty talented skill along with the warts. Let's see what he is at the end of the season.

his time at Notre Dame?

Or Bill Walsh taught him that, and in HIS SYSTEM - Walsh's.

Heck he didn't become the starting QB (was behind DeBerg) until mid year two.

Maybe Jones never gets it, but he's got a good OC now with a history of developing QBs.

In comment 15026375 Britt in VA said:

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and let it breathe a little. I'm not talking about anything else, just Jones. He has shown some pretty talented skill along with the warts. Let's see what he is at the end of the season.

He's getting time right now. By the end of the season we'll have seen 28 starts. Unless something changes drastically in these last 9 starts, the smartest allocation of resources is to shop him. He isn't currently doing anything special that can't be reasonably assumed from a future mid round draft pick.

I hope we see drastic improvement, but there is no reason to expect it other than hope - which has been the modus operandi here for years.

of this franchise. Stay the course. Lets see how things shake out over time. It's important to protect those 3 or 4 wins per year.

And it would ruin the only day the team has any relevance anymore.

Round One of the Draft.

Feel free to refute these links. I spent all of 5 minutes looking for them. There is not a single one that mentions any type of elite skills when discussing Jones. Don't get me wrong no one said or is saying he has no skills. But he was never and is not now a potential elite QB.

The consistent player comps are Ryan Tannehill, Josh McCowen, Josh Allen. I think his ceiling is Alex Smith KC.

There were concerns about turnovers, there were concerns about him needing time before playing and early success being essential to him making it. Interesting reading I think.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/daniel-jones

https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019danieljones.php

https://sny.tv/articles/scouting-report-for-nfl-draft-prospect-daniel-jones-do-giants-nab-him-at-no-17

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/daniel-jones-nfl-draft-profile-everything-to-know-about-team-fits-strengths-and-more/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823982-daniel-jones-nfl-draft-2019-scouting-report-for-new-york-giants-pick

https://247sports.com/college/duke/Article/Daniel-Jones-Giants-draft-reaction-NFL-scouts-executives-like-pick-Duke-134112704/

https://www.thephinsider.com/2019/4/21/18509816/miami-dolphins-draft-targets-2019-profile-nfl-draft-daniel-jones-duke-qb

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/17/film-room-scouting-report-daniel-jones-duke

In comment 15026386 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15026375 Britt in VA said: Quote: and let it breathe a little. I'm not talking about anything else, just Jones. He has shown some pretty talented skill along with the warts. Let's see what he is at the end of the season. He's getting time right now. By the end of the season we'll have seen 28 starts. Unless something changes drastically in these last 9 starts, the smartest allocation of resources is to shop him. He isn't currently doing anything special that can't be reasonably assumed from a future mid round draft pick. I hope we see drastic improvement, but there is no reason to expect it other than hope - which has been the modus operandi here for years.

I don't agree with that Terps. He has decent stats and tape from last year. He is in a new system this year, without preseason games. How many rookie QBs have thrown more TDs than he did last year? If by the end of the year he can show growth he will get another year. If he keeps putting the ball on the turf and cannot lead us to wins , I will be with you.

The Patriots program does not have any tolerance for turnovers.

If the Giants finish 4-12 (I think that’s a fair assessment) with Jones maintaining the same level of play the rest of the year, I’d find it hard to believe there wouldn’t be better options in the draft. We heard the Giants carefully scouted Herbert even this year.

I’m surprised there isn’t more frustration with Jones. We were all pissed at Engram for the drop last week, but I was just as pissed off with the fumble loss TD in the Dallas game. That fumble flipped the game and ultimately cost the Giants the game.

I get the OL stinks, but it’s still the responsibility of the QB to hold onto the ball. I’m tired of the excuses on the turnovers. The turnovers are happening at an alarming rate.

In comment 15026301 Eric on Li said:

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Daniel Jones 2019 weeks 1-8 (6 starts - 243 attempts) - 61%, 1,561 yards (6.4 ypa), 14td/5int Justin Herbert 2020 weeks 1-7 (5 starts - 184 attempts) - 65%, 1,542 yards (8.4 y/a), 12td/3int Herbert has been historically excellent (on par with Mahomes) but last year Daniel Jones wasn't that far behind. His 16 game pace was 30+ TDs and 4k yards after all, with basically the same group of receivers he has this year. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3917792/type/nfl/year/2019 - ( New Window )

With all due respect, that difference is YPA is significant. And shouldn't be overlooked.

Have you seen Herbert play, btw? Not being patronizing, but he's making throws that are upper class. The ball is getting there in a hurry and in some tight windows. It's very impressive.

In comment 15026393 arniefez said:

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Feel free to refute these links. I spent all of 5 minutes looking for them. There is not a single one that mentions any type of elite skills when discussing Jones. Don't get me wrong no one said or is saying he has no skills. But he was never and is not now a potential elite QB. The consistent player comps are Ryan Tannehill, Josh McCowen, Josh Allen. I think his ceiling is Alex Smith KC. There were concerns about turnovers, there were concerns about him needing time before playing and early success being essential to him making it. Interesting reading I think. https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/daniel-jones https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019danieljones.php https://sny.tv/articles/scouting-report-for-nfl-draft-prospect-daniel-jones-do-giants-nab-him-at-no-17 https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/daniel-jones-nfl-draft-profile-everything-to-know-about-team-fits-strengths-and-more/ https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823982-daniel-jones-nfl-draft-2019-scouting-report-for-new-york-giants-pick https://247sports.com/college/duke/Article/Daniel-Jones-Giants-draft-reaction-NFL-scouts-executives-like-pick-Duke-134112704/ https://www.thephinsider.com/2019/4/21/18509816/miami-dolphins-draft-targets-2019-profile-nfl-draft-daniel-jones-duke-qb https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/17/film-room-scouting-report-daniel-jones-duke

Useless information. We have seen him play professional football. At the end of the year, most talent evaluators thought he was going to be good. This year is different. Any circumstance that could account for a setback?

Does Covid causing him to be unable to practice with teammates as much as normal?

Would ZERO preseason games matter?

How about experiencing more pressure than anyone else in the sport?

How about an entire new coaching staff and a completely different offense?

Losing your best offensive player?

Receivers with the worst separation in the league?

Does any of that matter at all or just no biggie?

In comment 15026398 Sean said:

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The Patriots program does not have any tolerance for turnovers. If the Giants finish 4-12 (I think that’s a fair assessment) with Jones maintaining the same level of play the rest of the year, I’d find it hard to believe there wouldn’t be better options in the draft. We heard the Giants carefully scouted Herbert even this year. I’m surprised there isn’t more frustration with Jones. We were all pissed at Engram for the drop last week, but I was just as pissed off with the fumble loss TD in the Dallas game. That fumble flipped the game and ultimately cost the Giants the game. I get the OL stinks, but it’s still the responsibility of the QB to hold onto the ball. I’m tired of the excuses on the turnovers. The turnovers are happening at an alarming rate.

Are you also tired of our Left Tackle Leading the league in pressures allowed, by an almost historic margin?? LT is a premier position for a reason, you just can’t ignore it, especially when you use a strip sack from the blind side to make your point.

I really hope Judge rises above this sentimental shit.

In comment 15026352 Go Terps said:

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Is anyone comfortable with the idea of giving Jones a contract on par with, say, what Jared Goff got in September 2019: 4 years, $134M, $110M guaranteed Goff got that contract after these first 3 years in the NFL: 2016: 0-7 record, 54.6%, 5.3 YPA, 5TD, 7INT, 1089 yards 2017 (learning a new system): 11-4, 62.1%, 8.0, 28/7, 3804 2018: 13-3, 64.9%, 8.4, 32/12, 4688 Goff is not an elite QB, but he's alright. His second season in a new system is way better than what Jones is doing. If we're being VERY kind to Jones and putting him at Goff's level, are we OK paying him Goff's contract after 2021? Because if we're not, then what are we doing here?

Just an aside to this...Goff is one tough SOB in the pocket. When he was at Cal his final season, he made some of the most amazing throws. Sonny Dykes's offense - the height of minimum to zero protection - was getting Goff killed. But Goff would hang in there, go through his reads, and deliver the throw

I don't think he's a great talent overall - his arm is slightly above average, decent wheels, etc - but he still hangs in the pocket and waits for the play to develop. So to an earlier point you made, that is not a quality that Jones current possesses.

Nope none of it matters. Not even a little.

I get you're desperate for Jones to be a really good QB.

That doesn't make him one and if you watch Burrow and Herbert every week who are ROOKIES dealing with all the excuses you're making for Jones you'll see why people who watch more than the Giants games are ready to move on.

In comment 15026339 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 15025882 montanagiant said: Quote: WTF has happened to this board.... Oh, stop. This team has 10 wins over the past three seasons and some fans keep defending them. You're what happened to this board.

Look my butthurt stalker is back...LOL

Silly to compare to Jamarcus but, if Jones played for any other team, would you guys that like him see the same up side? For me, I think the comp to Alex Smith in KC fits. That’s not really something to be excited about as far as I’m seeing.

In comment 15026562 trueblueinpw said:

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Silly to compare to Jamarcus but, if Jones played for any other team, would you guys that like him see the same up side? For me, I think the comp to Alex Smith in KC fits. That’s not really something to be excited about as far as I’m seeing.

I don't think the Alex Smith comp is correct. Perhaps that is his upside, but Smith is a disciplined, accurate QB who doesn't get easily flustered. Right now Jones is none of those things. Right now Jones is very poor with flashes of good play and is more similar to Trubisky, Mariota or Osweiler, imo. He needs to take a step up to be compared to actual, successful QBs.

In comment 15026402 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15026301 Eric on Li said: Quote: Daniel Jones 2019 weeks 1-8 (6 starts - 243 attempts) - 61%, 1,561 yards (6.4 ypa), 14td/5int Justin Herbert 2020 weeks 1-7 (5 starts - 184 attempts) - 65%, 1,542 yards (8.4 y/a), 12td/3int Herbert has been historically excellent (on par with Mahomes) but last year Daniel Jones wasn't that far behind. His 16 game pace was 30+ TDs and 4k yards after all, with basically the same group of receivers he has this year. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3917792/type/nfl/year/2019 - ( New Window ) With all due respect, that difference is YPA is significant. And shouldn't be overlooked. Have you seen Herbert play, btw? Not being patronizing, but he's making throws that are upper class. The ball is getting there in a hurry and in some tight windows. It's very impressive.

I've seen almost every game Herbert has played so far (live in CA and as a former Dak owner in FF he's now my starting QB). he has looked as good as a QB can look (rookie or not). I was not a big Herbert fan as a draft prospect and as much as an opinion can be shifted in 5 or 6 games he's done it.

My point was simply Jones' year last season wasn't too far behind with inferior weapons. Remember Engram + Shepard missed most of his starts last year. Saquon missed half of them and wasn't himself until the last few games. And still Jones was on pace for 30 touchdowns with a rookie in Slayton, an aging Tate, and Kaden Smith off waivers being his 3 leading receivers most weeks.

That's a far cry from Keenan Allen who has been excellent as usual, Hunter Henry would be one of the better all around TE's in football when healthy, and Mike Williams who makes acrobatic catches every game even if he hasn't put it all together yet. Even Guyton has even added a deep dimension.

Jones is having a sophmore slump but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, especially since he's shown progress the last few weeks. Garrett's system has left a lot to be desired - especially his usage of Engram and Tate relative to where they were successful last year (and as evidenced last Thursday).

his stats in his first games are on par with only Mahomes, and yet he's only won 1 game. Like the NYG they should have had others but had team breakdowns and bad luck (missed a kick that would have won a game). QB's of bad teams simply can't do it all entirely by themselves.

It would be nice if we could just have some consistency in these discussions realizing that guys like Mahomes, Wilson, and Lamar Jackson benefitted greatly by stepping on the field for teams that were already very strong around them.

In comment 15026576 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 15026402 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 15026301 Eric on Li said: Quote: Daniel Jones 2019 weeks 1-8 (6 starts - 243 attempts) - 61%, 1,561 yards (6.4 ypa), 14td/5int Justin Herbert 2020 weeks 1-7 (5 starts - 184 attempts) - 65%, 1,542 yards (8.4 y/a), 12td/3int Herbert has been historically excellent (on par with Mahomes) but last year Daniel Jones wasn't that far behind. His 16 game pace was 30+ TDs and 4k yards after all, with basically the same group of receivers he has this year. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3917792/type/nfl/year/2019 - ( New Window ) With all due respect, that difference is YPA is significant. And shouldn't be overlooked. Have you seen Herbert play, btw? Not being patronizing, but he's making throws that are upper class. The ball is getting there in a hurry and in some tight windows. It's very impressive. I've seen almost every game Herbert has played so far (live in CA and as a former Dak owner in FF he's now my starting QB). he has looked as good as a QB can look (rookie or not). I was not a big Herbert fan as a draft prospect and as much as an opinion can be shifted in 5 or 6 games he's done it. My point was simply Jones' year last season wasn't too far behind with inferior weapons. Remember Engram + Shepard missed most of his starts last year. Saquon missed half of them and wasn't himself until the last few games. And still Jones was on pace for 30 touchdowns with a rookie in Slayton, an aging Tate, and Kaden Smith off waivers being his 3 leading receivers most weeks. That's a far cry from Keenan Allen who has been excellent as usual, Hunter Henry would be one of the better all around TE's in football when healthy, and Mike Williams who makes acrobatic catches every game even if he hasn't put it all together yet. Even Guyton has even added a deep dimension. Jones is having a sophmore slump but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, especially since he's shown progress the last few weeks. Garrett's system has left a lot to be desired - especially his usage of Engram and Tate relative to where they were successful last year (and as evidenced last Thursday).

Jonbes is VERY FAR BEHIND Herbert. I challenge you to find a single reputable analyst that would place these two players in the same class right now. You are dreaming if you don;t think there is an enormous gulf between them. It is plain and simple. Greg Cosell for instance is gushing over Herbert, he loves his size, his arm talent, his toughness, his movement, his decisiveness and bravery making tough throws. I can't even find Cosell analysis of Jones this season and I have listened to every podcast he has done. And he has discussed, Darnold, Minshew, Kyler, Lamar, Allen, Burrow, even Haskins IN DEPTH. Jones is an after thought right now. And Herbert is the hottest QB commodity since Mahomes.

In comment 15026585 Producer said:

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In comment 15026576 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 15026402 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 15026301 Eric on Li said: Quote: Daniel Jones 2019 weeks 1-8 (6 starts - 243 attempts) - 61%, 1,561 yards (6.4 ypa), 14td/5int Justin Herbert 2020 weeks 1-7 (5 starts - 184 attempts) - 65%, 1,542 yards (8.4 y/a), 12td/3int Herbert has been historically excellent (on par with Mahomes) but last year Daniel Jones wasn't that far behind. His 16 game pace was 30+ TDs and 4k yards after all, with basically the same group of receivers he has this year. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3917792/type/nfl/year/2019 - ( New Window ) With all due respect, that difference is YPA is significant. And shouldn't be overlooked. Have you seen Herbert play, btw? Not being patronizing, but he's making throws that are upper class. The ball is getting there in a hurry and in some tight windows. It's very impressive. I've seen almost every game Herbert has played so far (live in CA and as a former Dak owner in FF he's now my starting QB). he has looked as good as a QB can look (rookie or not). I was not a big Herbert fan as a draft prospect and as much as an opinion can be shifted in 5 or 6 games he's done it. My point was simply Jones' year last season wasn't too far behind with inferior weapons. Remember Engram + Shepard missed most of his starts last year. Saquon missed half of them and wasn't himself until the last few games. And still Jones was on pace for 30 touchdowns with a rookie in Slayton, an aging Tate, and Kaden Smith off waivers being his 3 leading receivers most weeks. That's a far cry from Keenan Allen who has been excellent as usual, Hunter Henry would be one of the better all around TE's in football when healthy, and Mike Williams who makes acrobatic catches every game even if he hasn't put it all together yet. Even Guyton has even added a deep dimension. Jones is having a sophmore slump but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, especially since he's shown progress the last few weeks. Garrett's system has left a lot to be desired - especially his usage of Engram and Tate relative to where they were successful last year (and as evidenced last Thursday). Jonbes is VERY FAR BEHIND Herbert. I challenge you to find a single reputable analyst that would place these two players in the same class right now. You are dreaming if you don;t think there is an enormous gulf between them. It is plain and simple. Greg Cosell for instance is gushing over Herbert, he loves his size, his arm talent, his toughness, his movement, his decisiveness and bravery making tough throws. I can't even find Cosell analysis of Jones this season and I have listened to every podcast he has done. And he has discussed, Darnold, Minshew, Kyler, Lamar, Allen, Burrow, even Haskins IN DEPTH. Jones is an after thought right now. And Herbert is the hottest QB commodity since Mahomes.

Herbert has looked very good but we only have a 3 game window to base that on. If you look at Jones's first year he was every bit as good.

Let's give it a full season and then we have enough to do a real comparison. I would love to see Jones behind an avg O-Line with a true #1 WR. I believe all of us would be more than happy with what we see if that ever happens