Some cool Daniel Jones Stats from Giants.com

In comment 15027078 Brown_Hornet said:

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In comment 15026762 Britt in VA said: Quote: In comment 15026755 GiantNatty said: Quote: . Richmond VA. More specifically, Bon Air. Funny, I remember when you were looking at a house in Stratford Hills. I lived in Bon Air at the time...I moved to Stratford Hills! heh~

I loved my house in Stratford Hills. Both my kids were born there. Saw both Giants Superbowls there. Best years of my life so far. When it’s time to downsize, I’m moving back!

On Jones' biggest runs, Jones himself has a hand in deciding how the play unfolds. From my view those runs were zone reads, where Jones reads the backside edge defender which tells Jones whether to hand to the back or keep it himself.

There is a downside to blowing up and starting over. It generally sets the clock back. I have concerns with Jones (I was very annoyed after the Dallas game), but starting over at QB just resets the clock again. That’s how so many franchises (including the Giants now) continuously spin their wheels.

If you watch Mara’s comments after Gettleman was retained last year, he talks about not wanting to blow it up after so much was implemented with DG since he was hired.

We are seeing the consequences of that now, there’s no doubt that a new staff has led to growing pains. It’s why it’s so tough to compete when there is no stability. But, I’m very high on Judge. Here are the records of first year head coaches this year:

Stefanski: 5-2
Rhule: 3-4
Rivera: 2-5
McCarthy: 2-5
Judge: 1-6

The Browns are the most talented, so it’s not shocking CLE is 5-2. The best case scenario for this franchise would be not needed to start over again. I’d rather see Judge & Jones have a strong second half.

I haven't given up on Jones either, but some of these takes are absurd. Jones is currently a bottom five starting QB in the league. He's flashed but is being ruined by a crap team.

No one in the NFL is taking Jones over Mayfield/Jimmy G.

Jackson is in a different stratosphere than any of those guys. I hope whoever would take Jones over Jackson checks themselves into a mental institution.

In comment 15027115 BrettNYG10 said:

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I haven't given up on Jones either, but some of these takes are absurd. Jones is currently a bottom five starting QB in the league. He's flashed but is being ruined by a crap team. No one in the NFL is taking Jones over Mayfield/Jimmy G. Jackson is in a different stratosphere than any of those guys. I hope whoever would take Jones over Jackson checks themselves into a mental institution.

Let me ask you a very simple question.

Do you think Lamar Jackson would be the same player he is today had the Giants drafted him?

Everything else the same. Giants draft Lamar Jackson in 2018 either by a high second round pick or trading back into the first to get him.

Is Lamar Jackson the MVP last year? Is he even close? What does that player look like, and why?

The Browns are an average-ish football team with an incredibly easy record. They might make the playoffs because of how easy their schedule is.

They beat the Cowboys, Redskins, Colts, Bengals (x2), and play the Texans, Jaguars, Giants, Eagles, and Jets. It's absurd.

Or last year?

In comment 15027120 Britt in VA said:

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In comment 15027115 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: I haven't given up on Jones either, but some of these takes are absurd. Jones is currently a bottom five starting QB in the league. He's flashed but is being ruined by a crap team. No one in the NFL is taking Jones over Mayfield/Jimmy G. Jackson is in a different stratosphere than any of those guys. I hope whoever would take Jones over Jackson checks themselves into a mental institution. Let me ask you a very simple question. Do you think Lamar Jackson would be the same player he is today had the Giants drafted him? Everything else the same. Giants draft Lamar Jackson in 2018 either by a high second round pick or trading back into the first to get him. Is Lamar Jackson the MVP last year? Is he even close? What does that player look like, and why?

No, I don't think Jackson is the MVP with the Giants, in large part because their coaching sucked last year (and still sucks on the offensive side of the ball this year). The Giants are a better team with Lamar Jackson, though. Jackson on the Giants is worth a few wins, IMO.

Jackson is a significantly superior player. He was in college and is in the pros. Jackson threw for more yards than Jones in college.

Jackson took a .500 football team and dragged them into the playoffs his rookie season. He completely changed the team.

That's difficult to take seriously.

In comment 15027122 Britt in VA said:

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Or last year?

It's definitely better.

for Jackson and he deserves it. But, he can't throw the ball in cold weather. It's a problem.

declare Jones no good, never as good as Romo, never win a Super Bowl, etc.

BUT I do worry about this clutchness (for lack of a better word).

He's had the ball in his hands with a chance to tie/win/ice/mount a comeback in 6 games this season. He hasn't done it once.

He couldn't finish the long drive against PIT - as a matter of fact he ruined it.

He couldn't come up with a clutch throw at the end of the game against the Bears - totally had a chance to win/tie the game there.

He had a chance to lead the Giants down the field against the Rams and win/tie the game - couldn't do it.

Had a chance against the Cowboys with under 2 min to lead a game winning drive - couldn't do it.

He had a chance to bury the WFT - he threw a pick in the end zone.

Had a chance to ice the game against the Eagles - couldn't do it.

It's not all on him - he was let down at times by this positional players, his coaches, his OL...but at the end of the day - when you're the QB and you've got the ball with a chance to win/tie/ice a game...it's on you to get the job done...and he hasn't.

This year - that's just a fact.

But comparisons to Jackson are just brain dead and laughable.

In comment 15027131 ryanmkeane said:

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for Jackson and he deserves it. But, he can't throw the ball in cold weather. It's a problem.

It's interesting to see that all the fans of Jackson dislike Jones, but Jones' best skillset is similar to Lamar's best skillset, albeit poor man's version. I actually think Jones would be a really good fit on the Ravens team as it's currently designed.

Now, am I saying that Jones is as good as Jackson? No. But am I saying that he has a similar skillset? Yes.

It's just weird to see people go gaga over Jackson but in the same breath say that Jones isn't something that can be worked with and be successful with.

In comment 15026762 Britt in VA said:

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In comment 15026755 GiantNatty said: Quote: . Richmond VA. More specifically, Bon Air.

We are very Close to each other. I live in Prince George VA

Mainly, since the Dallas game. We’ve seen Jones run more the last few games. His call on the Jones run last week was very good. And to be fair, the call on the Engram drop was brilliant and would have iced the game.

I’m not saying he’s been great, but I’ve seen improvement.

Still would have helped this team win games. Fuck Eli would have helped this team win games.

Everything with Jones is that pass or look at that one run or we came so close if Engram only makes that one easy catch.

Eli, Goff Wilson they try and make plays all the time. Wilsons TE dropped one in the end zone in the Sunday Night Game ; he just keep on throwing. J Goff in Monday night takes shots down the field all the time. Eli did the same thing in the Miami game last year. It is pretty obvious this year they have tried minimizing Jones' turnovers. It is resulting in very conservative play and not enough points to win games or him turning the ball over and losing games just the same like Rams/Bears or him just going to his old ways and looking good in certain plays but Turning over the ball just the same and losing to Philly.

In comment 15027048 EricJ said:

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I have no idea how to evaluate a QB in college. So many variables... even more than the pros. Not sure what the Giants were looking at or whether they were leaning heavily on the endorsement from his coach.

As much as they try to science it up - and I like the science part of it - it's still more art than science trying to evaluate college QBs.

With the evolution of today's game, outside of the traditional skills (accuracy, size, RPMs, etc), the majority of these are a now a must:

-- Dual threat - able to get first downs by air and land
-- Mobility
-- Athleticism
-- Accuracy outside the pocket

As for Jones, I think his selection was based largely on a desire to find Eli 2.0. So the Cutcliffe connection, going to Manning Passing Camps, personality, toughness, etc, checked so many boxes for the romantics at Jints Central....

In comment 15027137 Britt in VA said:

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In comment 15027131 ryanmkeane said: Quote: for Jackson and he deserves it. But, he can't throw the ball in cold weather. It's a problem. It's interesting to see that all the fans of Jackson dislike Jones, but Jones' best skillset is similar to Lamar's best skillset, albeit poor man's version. I actually think Jones would be a really good fit on the Ravens team as it's currently designed. Now, am I saying that Jones is as good as Jackson? No. But am I saying that he has a similar skillset? Yes. It's just weird to see people go gaga over Jackson but in the same breath say that Jones isn't something that can be worked with and be successful with.

Just because they are both RPO, fast running QBs they are both the same? Or that jones can some day be as good and win like Jackson? Is that really your argument?

In comment 15027148 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15027048 EricJ said: Quote: I have no idea how to evaluate a QB in college. So many variables... even more than the pros. Not sure what the Giants were looking at or whether they were leaning heavily on the endorsement from his coach. As much as they try to science it up - and I like the science part of it - it's still more art than science trying to evaluate college QBs. With the evolution of today's game, outside of the traditional skills (accuracy, size, RPMs, etc), the majority of these are a now a must: -- Dual threat - able to get first downs by air and land -- Mobility -- Athleticism -- Accuracy outside the pocket As for Jones, I think his selection was based largely on a desire to find Eli 2.0. So the Cutcliffe connection, going to Manning Passing Camps, personality, toughness, etc, checked so many boxes for the romantics at Jints Central....

I fail to see the similarities at all.

Eli was a deep throwing ; good arm QB who thrived in play action pass and took what I am sure many would argue too many chances, and hated running.

jones is actually the opposite -- little arm , short passing rpo QB who is very fast and it is his best attribute.

In comment 15027144 Sean said:

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Mainly, since the Dallas game. We’ve seen Jones run more the last few games. His call on the Jones run last week was very good. And to be fair, the call on the Engram drop was brilliant and would have iced the game. I’m not saying he’s been great, but I’ve seen improvement.

Is it all Garrett improving or perhaps some of it is the players are becoming more comfortable in the offense. How long do we think it takes for players to be comfortable enough for the OC to be able to use most of the playbook? Of course that depends on that complexity, the teaching effectiveness, the players receiving the teaching.

Pocket awareness? Can you teach him not to panic under pressure? Can you teach him to process the play faster? I really am not sure but I think some of those are intrinsic skills that cannot be taught

In comment 15027115 BrettNYG10 said:

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I haven't given up on Jones either, but some of these takes are absurd. Jones is currently a bottom five starting QB in the league. He's flashed but is being ruined by a crap team. No one in the NFL is taking Jones over Mayfield/Jimmy G. Jackson is in a different stratosphere than any of those guys. I hope whoever would take Jones over Jackson checks themselves into a mental institution.

You need to stop at the Kool Aid stand and drink a big cold glass of the Jones Juice.

If Jones had:

Tackles: Trent Williams & Ronnie Staley
Guards: Quentin Nelson & David DeCastro
Center: Jason Kelce
TE: Travis Kelce
WRs: DeAndre Hopkins & Mike Evans
RBs: SBarkley
FB: Kyle Juszczek

We would clearly see how great he is. So until we can get those players, or similar players, it's just not fair to judge Jones.

So here's some cool stats from losers.com:

Daniel Jones 4 wins - 15 loses

Dave Gettleman GM 10 wins - 29 loses

Chris Mara as SR VP Player Personnel 52 wins - 83 loses

You can probably add 2 wins to those totals and another 7 loses by the end of this year.

Cool Stats.

In comment 15027160 Black_Flag said:

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I fail to see the similarities at all. Eli was a deep throwing ; good arm QB who thrived in play action pass and took what I am sure many would argue too many chances, and hated running. jones is actually the opposite -- little arm , short passing rpo QB who is very fast and it is his best attribute.

I didn't mean to suggest they were similar by skill sets. But Jones had those intangibles that the romantics at Jints Central crave.

The Raiders manta is "Just Win Baby!"

The Giants mantra is "Just be the 'Giants Way' Baby!"

In comment 15027165 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15027115 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: I haven't given up on Jones either, but some of these takes are absurd. Jones is currently a bottom five starting QB in the league. He's flashed but is being ruined by a crap team. No one in the NFL is taking Jones over Mayfield/Jimmy G. Jackson is in a different stratosphere than any of those guys. I hope whoever would take Jones over Jackson checks themselves into a mental institution. You need to stop at the Kool Aid stand and drink a big cold glass of the Jones Juice. If Jones had: Tackles: Trent Williams & Ronnie Staley Guards: Quentin Nelson & David DeCastro Center: Jason Kelce TE: Travis Kelce WRs: DeAndre Hopkins & Mike Evans RBs: SBarkley FB: Kyle Juszczek We would clearly see how great he is. So until we can get those players, or similar players, it's just not fair to judge Jones.

Or we can have:

TE: George Kittle
WR: Larry Fitzgerald (or is he washed up. Seems like everyone wants to do that around here to players not playing lights out any longer)
RB Kamara

same lineman as above

Then ...then we'll know

I am starting to think all these people just thought if we jettison Eli then we'll magically be back in the Super bowl. Especially if it a short passing mobile QB. um no.

In comment 15027173 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15027160 Black_Flag said: Quote: I fail to see the similarities at all. Eli was a deep throwing ; good arm QB who thrived in play action pass and took what I am sure many would argue too many chances, and hated running. jones is actually the opposite -- little arm , short passing rpo QB who is very fast and it is his best attribute. I didn't mean to suggest they were similar by skill sets. But Jones had those intangibles that the romantics at Jints Central crave. The Raiders manta is "Just Win Baby!" The Giants mantra is "Just be the 'Giants Way' Baby!"

Ahh - being able to work in Jints Central and the Giants Way in one post. Impressive.

Is a complete fabrication, but impressive!

I try.

But what's the fabrication?

In comment 15027205 bw in dc said:

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I try. But what's the fabrication?

What isn't a fabrication?? "Intangibles" might as well be code for random shit to support a terrible take.

"Romantics at Jints Central"??

Hell, I'd argue that the supposed "Giants way" was a lot more productive than the past few years when several non-Giant way moves have been made:
- Hiring McAdoo
- Hiring Shurmur
- Hiring Judge

Isn't the Giants Way hiring only cronies who bow to the Mara's and kiss the ring? Or do they have to remove the silver spoon from their asses too?

you don't think the Maras/Gettleman/Accorsi/et al were looking for QB to replace Eli that was a newer, improved version of Eli?

1. Jones's carries haven't gradually increased as the season has gone on.

2. He is averaging 3.4 yards more per rush than pass (9.5 to 6.1), yet he has attempted 200 more passes (231) than rushes (31).

In comment 15027169 arniefez said:

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So here's some cool stats from losers.com: Daniel Jones 4 wins - 15 loses Dave Gettleman GM 10 wins - 29 loses Chris Mara as SR VP Player Personnel 52 wins - 83 loses You can probably add 2 wins to those totals and another 7 loses by the end of this year. Cool Stats.

losers.com. Right up your alley. I’m guessing you’re the president?

the dumbass did have the same misspelling 5 times in one post. So I'm guessing it isn't just a typing error.

Let's remember he went to a franchise that had made the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons before finally missing out on the last play of the last week of the regular season before he got there.

Does anyone want to compare the track record of the Ravens before Jackson got there, to the track record of the Giants before Jones got here?

Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers.

In comment 15027262 Chris684 said:

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Let's remember he went to a franchise that had made the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons before finally missing out on the last play of the last week of the regular season before he got there. Does anyone want to compare the track record of the Ravens before Jackson got there, to the track record of the Giants before Jones got here? Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers.

Referencing the 2 playoff games above obviously.

In comment 15027262 Chris684 said:

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Let's remember he went to a franchise that had made the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons before finally missing out on the last play of the last week of the regular season before he got there. Does anyone want to compare the track record of the Ravens before Jackson got there, to the track record of the Giants before Jones got here? Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers.

But the beauty of the Ravens with LJax is they completely overhauled their offense - that fit Flacco - to fit a completely different player in LJax. It was an incredible display of flexibility and out of the box thinking...

In comment 15027262 Chris684 said:

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Let's remember he went to a franchise that had made the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons before finally missing out on the last play of the last week of the regular season before he got there. Does anyone want to compare the track record of the Ravens before Jackson got there, to the track record of the Giants before Jones got here? Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers.

Jackson is 24-4 as a starter with a 52/11 TD/INT split, another 14 TDs rushing, an MVP, and an offense that is averaging a little over 30 PPG.

If Jones was doing that this thread wouldn't exist, and everyone here would be going insane over him. People are lauding Jones over getting to 21 points in a loss at Philly - that ain't what life is like for Jackson. Totally different experience.

This place is nuts sometimes with the extent of the homerism.

In comment 15027262 Chris684 said:

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Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers.

We're starting a QB that's 4-19 with 61% completion percentage,29 TD and 38 turnovers. See for yourself what people are saying about him.

In comment 15027075 PaulN said:

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Is not ever going to be great, or lead the team to a Superbowl, he has flaws that will never be corrected and will get worse, he panics under pressure unless the play called goes perfect so he does not have to think at all. I agree he would do well with a great team, so would just about any NFL QB. I think he could become a decent QB, but never great and never clutch, he will ruin great opportunity, bbi knocked Romo, Jones will never be as good as Romo.

With what expertise do you make these claims? I have heard NFL QBs including Romo make other assertions. If he corrects the turnovers he could be great. He has accuracy, size and athleticism. I think Romo is a reasonable comp and Romo was very good.

Curious how you do not lock onto your primary read when the expectation is you will be hit immediately. It is not possible to go through any progressions right now with the OL. It also is a fact they go many pass plays with no one open. They Have no speed at WR with Slayton on 1 leg. Yes they have played other teams with injuries, but they still present speed on the outside.

When other teams defenses are getting home with 4-5 people, that leaves 6-7 back and really everyone covered high/low. What defense is worried about getting beat deep by these WR

In comment 15027275 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15027262 Chris684 said: Quote: Let's remember he went to a franchise that had made the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons before finally missing out on the last play of the last week of the regular season before he got there. Does anyone want to compare the track record of the Ravens before Jackson got there, to the track record of the Giants before Jones got here? Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers. Jackson is 24-4 as a starter with a 52/11 TD/INT split, another 14 TDs rushing, an MVP, and an offense that is averaging a little over 30 PPG. If Jones was doing that this thread wouldn't exist, and everyone here would be going insane over him. People are lauding Jones over getting to 21 points in a loss at Philly - that ain't what life is like for Jackson. Totally different experience. This place is nuts sometimes with the extent of the homerism.

Come on Terps, look at the difference in personal around Jackson vs Jones, on both sides of the ball it's a huge void between us and them

Stats on their own are indicators, but certainly not predictors of success or value. As Britt said in the OP, they're just "cool."

To really evaluate the success and value of a quarterback, you need to take all the stats, the performance of the offense, and the performance of the team to determine if the player is doing well and holding up his end.

Prime example, you look at just the positive Winston stats last year, and you'd be inclined to think that's a good QB.

I'm on the record that Jones has the tools to be a good quarterback, and always felt Jones's wheels were his best asset.

I'm optimistic Judge can take those cool stats, and translate them into success.

In comment 15027348 montanagiant said:

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In comment 15027275 Go Terps said: Quote: In comment 15027262 Chris684 said: Quote: Let's remember he went to a franchise that had made the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons before finally missing out on the last play of the last week of the regular season before he got there. Does anyone want to compare the track record of the Ravens before Jackson got there, to the track record of the Giants before Jones got here? Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers. Jackson is 24-4 as a starter with a 52/11 TD/INT split, another 14 TDs rushing, an MVP, and an offense that is averaging a little over 30 PPG. If Jones was doing that this thread wouldn't exist, and everyone here would be going insane over him. People are lauding Jones over getting to 21 points in a loss at Philly - that ain't what life is like for Jackson. Totally different experience. This place is nuts sometimes with the extent of the homerism. Come on Terps, look at the difference in personal around Jackson vs Jones, on both sides of the ball it's a huge void between us and them

Including at quarterback, where Jones is not in Jackson's zip code.

In comment 15027345 stretch234 said:

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Curious how you do not lock onto your primary read when the expectation is you will be hit immediately. It is not possible to go through any progressions right now with the OL. It also is a fact they go many pass plays with no one open. They Have no speed at WR with Slayton on 1 leg. Yes they have played other teams with injuries, but they still present speed on the outside. When other teams defenses are getting home with 4-5 people, that leaves 6-7 back and really everyone covered high/low. What defense is worried about getting beat deep by these WR

Curious how Eli was able to do it against the dolphins last year ; same shit receivers (supposedly) same shit line.

In comment 15026724 Go Terps said:

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He's a really good runner. I've been saying it since last year: RPOs, rollouts, designed QB runs...that's what the offense should be from the outset. He should be featured as a runner, getting 8-12 attempts per game. So why is he at only 4.4 carries per game? If he's going to be the guy next year, I would acquire two mobile QBs to back him up and install an offense based on the QB as a runner - like they do in Baltimore. That's how you use Jones...not as a pocket passer.

I agree for the most part. Jones in no way is Lamar Jackson but he's definitely a mobile threat and the offense should be 100% catering to his strengths as a runner. When Jackson was drafted in Balt, the offense there was not 100% ready for his skill set as they still had Flacco in the fold. Once the offseason rolled around and Balt was ready to go 100% with Jackson, they ditched Flacco and restructured the offense around Jackson. the rest is MVP history.

The Ravens did everything they could to prevent Jackson from failing.

PS I'd love to see Jones and Jackson switch places just to settle some of these QB chicken or the egg debates once and for all.

In comment 15027355 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15027348 montanagiant said: Quote: In comment 15027275 Go Terps said: Quote: In comment 15027262 Chris684 said: Quote: Let's remember he went to a franchise that had made the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons before finally missing out on the last play of the last week of the regular season before he got there. Does anyone want to compare the track record of the Ravens before Jackson got there, to the track record of the Giants before Jones got here? Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers. Jackson is 24-4 as a starter with a 52/11 TD/INT split, another 14 TDs rushing, an MVP, and an offense that is averaging a little over 30 PPG. If Jones was doing that this thread wouldn't exist, and everyone here would be going insane over him. People are lauding Jones over getting to 21 points in a loss at Philly - that ain't what life is like for Jackson. Totally different experience. This place is nuts sometimes with the extent of the homerism. Come on Terps, look at the difference in personal around Jackson vs Jones, on both sides of the ball it's a huge void between us and them Including at quarterback, where Jones is not in Jackson's zip code.

Yes because Jackson is hot garbage

In comment 15027078 Brown_Hornet said:

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I lived in Bon Air at the time...I moved to Stratford Hills!

South side.....pfffft

because I don't think the Giants would have organizationally had the guts to do what Baltimore did - restructure the entire offense. Baltimore was creative and they get the most out of Jackson.

The Giants are putting Jones in situations that are not best for his skillset, and he is struggling with it. Can he get better? Absolutely. But his problems go well beyond the personnel around him. The mental part of the game is the biggest struggle I see for him.

And for those saying Jackson sucks because he is 0-2 in the playoffs, go check out Eli's first two playoff games. Spoiler alert - he was 0-2 with 2 TDs and 4 INTs.

you see one big play that fooled a couple of defenses for large gains . they don't care about that. they will let jones have it knowing full well they won't fall for it again.

Other mobile QBs take off when a play breaks down. Jones lacks that pocket presence. He also can't run outside the pocket and throw well consistently. Others can.