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In the NFL's 101-season history, more than 1,800 players have 75 or more rushing attempts. Only one player among them has a per-carry average of at least 7.6 yards. That player is Daniel Jones. In his two seasons as the Giants' quarterback, Jones has rushed for 575 yards on 76 carries, a 7.56-yard average that the Elias Sports Bureau said is the highest ever by a player with that many attempts. |
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Jones is third among NFL quarterbacks in rushing yardage this season, behind Kyler Murray (437 yards) and Lamar Jackson (346). His 575 rushing yards since the start of the 2019 season rank fifth among quarterbacks: Lamar Jackson (Baltimore) - 1,552 Kyler Murray (Arizona) - 981 Josh Allen (Buffalo) - 714 Russell Wilson (Seattle) - 579 Daniel Jones (Giants) - 575 |
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Jones leads the Giants with 296 rushing yards on 31 carries, a 9.5-yard average that is the highest by an NFL quarterback with that many attempts since 1992, when Pro Football Hall of Famer Steve Young averaged 9.6 yards (297 yards through 31 carries) for the San Francisco 49ers. The last NFL player to maintain such a high average at this statistical juncture was wide receiver Tavon Austin, who gained 303 yards on his first 31 carries (9.8-yard avg.) for the 2015 St. Louis Rams. |
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Jones' 296 rushing yards are the most by a Giants quarterback through seven games since Frank Filchock ran for 324 yards in 1946. The second-year pro has already exceeded his rookie total of 279 yards and needs just 11 more to set the quarterback franchise rushing record in the Super Bowl era: 1967 Fran Tarkenton - 306 1968 Fran Tarkenton - 301 2020 Daniel Jones - 296 2019 Daniel Jones - 279 |
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Jones also threw two touchdown passes against the Eagles, raising his two-year total to 29. That is tied for the fourth-highest total by a quarterback in his first 20 games with the Giants: Fran Tarkenton (1967-68) - 41 Charlie Conerly (1948-49) - 36 Y.A. Tittle (1961-62) - 33 Earl Morrall (1965-66) - 29 Daniel Jones (2019-20) - 29 |
@DanSchneierNFL
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6h
Before you give up on Daniel Jones, did you know the #Giants have PFF's dead last (Andrew Thomas) and second-to-last (Cam Fleming) graded OTs in pass pro (of 57 OTs who qualify)?
They combine to allow 57 pressures in 7 games.
The #Browns entire Oline has allowed 40 pressures.
Give him time. Give Jones time.
I thought he played well on Thursday & if Engram-that bum-makes that catch, we're 2-5 & the atmosphere around here is totally different, as we'd be in contention in an awful division/finally beat the Eagles.
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Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
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6h
Before you give up on Daniel Jones, did you know the #Giants have PFF's dead last (Andrew Thomas) and second-to-last (Cam Fleming) graded OTs in pass pro (of 57 OTs who qualify)?
They combine to allow 57 pressures in 7 games.
The #Browns entire Oline has allowed 40 pressures.
So if we benched Thomas and Fleming, and literally put anyone in those 2 spots, statistically (PFF) speaking, they couldn’t be worse?
Jesus.
Do you think Jones would rather be on the Ravens?
Jesus.
Link - ( New Window )
They’re a playoff team with either one and likely have a better shot to win in the postseason with Jones who actually knows how to throw the ball.
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would trade us LJax straight up for Jones?
They’re a playoff team with either one and likely have a better shot to win in the postseason with Jones who actually knows how to throw the ball.
Don't take the bait and let it get into a Lamar vs. Jones pissing contest.
Let those stats marinate. They speak for themselves.
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would trade us LJax straight up for Jones?
They’re a playoff team with either one and likely have a better shot to win in the postseason with Jones who actually knows how to throw the ball.
Wow.
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would trade us LJax straight up for Jones?
They’re a playoff team with either one and likely have a better shot to win in the postseason with Jones who actually knows how to throw the ball.
I don't know - maybe. Jones would definitely be in a better environment overall.
I do know what LJax can do because his production earned him an MVP. But I do get the concerns about Jax's issues when the Ravens get in a hole and become one dimensional. Just can't so unequivocally that Jones would solve that. That's a pretty big leap...
But, as SFGF notes above - the turnovers are very concerning. I can’t get around that to this point.
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Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
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6h
Before you give up on Daniel Jones, did you know the #Giants have PFF's dead last (Andrew Thomas) and second-to-last (Cam Fleming) graded OTs in pass pro (of 57 OTs who qualify)?
They combine to allow 57 pressures in 7 games.
The #Browns entire Oline has allowed 40 pressures.
So if we benched Thomas and Fleming, and literally put anyone in those 2 spots, statistically (PFF) speaking, they couldn’t be worse?
Jesus.
I guess even Bobby Hart ...
But, as SFGF notes above - the turnovers are very concerning. I can’t get around that to this point.
Well let me ask YOU this: Would you take Garappolo or Mayfield straight up for Jones to be the Giants QB?
Okay... Now we're all finding a middle ground here. That's good.
I feel for the guy because he's playing behind an atrocious OL-again, thanks Gettleman!-& few skill players. Sterling is good, but Engram sucks. Tate is meh. Slayton & DJ seem to be a good combo, but I don't think Slayton is a #1 WR on a good team.
But, as SFGF notes above - the turnovers are very concerning. I can’t get around that to this point.
That's fascinating that you think that so convincingly. As if Jones skills are far superior to Garoppolo.
So why is he at only 4.4 carries per game?
If he's going to be the guy next year, I would acquire two mobile QBs to back him up and install an offense based on the QB as a runner - like they do in Baltimore. That's how you use Jones...not as a pocket passer.
I’d also like to see him play well and win the remaining NFC East games. That’s the type of things I’m looking for. Him playing well and elevating this offense to some wins is what I need to see.
So why is he at only 4.4 carries per game?
If he's going to be the guy next year, I would acquire two mobile QBs to back him up and install an offense based on the QB as a runner - like they do in Baltimore. That's how you use Jones...not as a pocket passer.
See, I can get on board with that. Maybe like what New Orleans does with that Hill kid. When teams respect that, maybe Jones can develop more as a passer.
I’m not really looking to move on from Jones but without question I’d draft Trevor Lawrence if given the opportunity.
I like to think it will all work out because if Jones really tanks the rest of the season, we may well have that chance. If he plays better like I laid out above, we won’t.
Well, that speaks to two things - they have one of the deepest rosters in the NFL and we have one of the worst.
As for JG's skill set, where do you want to start? He's not my favorite QB to defend, but he's a good QB considering where he was drafted - late in the 2nd round. Which is where Jones should have been drafted.
His career QBR is in the 70s, he's a pretty good athlete who can move and his has a plus arm. And he's won big games. Solid pedigree.
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who wasn't even playing when his injury ridden roster beat the breaks off of us a couple of weeks ago.
Well, that speaks to two things - they have one of the deepest rosters in the NFL and we have one of the worst.
As for JG's skill set, where do you want to start? He's not my favorite QB to defend, but he's a good QB considering where he was drafted - late in the 2nd round. Which is where Jones should have been drafted.
His career QBR is in the 70s, he's a pretty good athlete who can move and his has a plus arm. And he's won big games. Solid pedigree.
He also sat for three years behind Tom Brady, learning.
But we're talking about the book being out on Jones after 20 games?
Jones, meanwhile, was drafted to be THE MAN once the organization came to their sense that Eli was finished.
Much different circumstances.
But, as SFGF notes above - the turnovers are very concerning. I can’t get around that to this point.
I’m not a Mayfield fan but I do not think for one second that Cleveland would trade him straight up for Jones. Come on.
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I’ll say this, I’m sure Shanahan would trade Garoppolo straight up for Jones. I think a guy like Shanahan could do a lot with Jones’ skill set. Same with McVay. He has tools you can work with. I’d imagine the Browns would trade Mayfield for Jones as well.
But, as SFGF notes above - the turnovers are very concerning. I can’t get around that to this point.
Well let me ask YOU this: Would you take Garappolo or Mayfield straight up for Jones to be the Giants QB?
I would.
Following?
They speak for themselves.
Okay, well, that's a different conversation. The 9ers saw something in his game and gave him the big contract. The average annual salary right now is $27M+, 13th in the league amongst QBs. Which by today's standards actually isn't bad.
He's not my favorite QB but he almost won a SB - was likely going to be the MVP - and has put up very respectable numbers thus far.
To be clear, I'm not elevating him to top ten NFL status. But I think there are things to work with and he has proven he can win NFL games...
Richmond VA. More specifically, Bon Air.
Matt Flynn ring a bell?
Get a true #1 receiver that can take the top off the D
Do those 2 things and Jones will shine
Add a legit Edge Rusher and a decent #2 CB and we'll start cooking
Jones has been outplayed by pretty much every QB he faced this year.
Wentz, Kyle Allen, A Dalton, Dak Prescott, Mullens etc.
He got outplayed b Kyle Allen. I saw Allen throw deep and yes even in cover 2. We have seen these QBs play well with shit rosters too. We have seen these guys play with 8-10 starters out respectively.
Last year we saw Jones Turn the ball and lose a bunch of games. Put up meaningless numbers while constantly trailing by 2 scores from turnovers he created. We watched Eli play against a play off bound Dolphins team that only sucked really because their QB play sucked and beat him. I watched some of the game again ; he threw deep, played with a 2-3 score lead. Actually won a game for once that wasn't against the Washington football team.
Yet we are supposed to believe if it is just this or that then Jones is the goods.
Despite all the facts this place is just the Jones and Saquon fan club. What is it going to take for you guys to realize this team would be better with another QB.
Jones has been outplayed by pretty much every QB he faced this year.
Wentz, Kyle Allen, A Dalton, Dak Prescott, Mullens etc.
He got outplayed b Kyle Allen. I saw Allen throw deep and yes even in cover 2. We have seen these QBs play well with shit rosters too. We have seen these guys play with 8-10 starters out respectively.
Last year we saw Jones Turn the ball and lose a bunch of games. Put up meaningless numbers while constantly trailing by 2 scores from turnovers he created. We watched Eli play against a play off bound Dolphins team that only sucked really because their QB play sucked and beat him. I watched some of the game again ; he threw deep, played with a 2-3 score lead. Actually won a game for once that wasn't against the Washington football team.
Yet we are supposed to believe if it is just this or that then Jones is the goods.
Despite all the facts this place is just the Jones and Saquon fan club. What is it going to take for you guys to realize this team would be better with another QB.
What QB that he's been outplayed by has shitty weapons and no O-line as bad as ours?
Is the Washington Football team just bursting at the seams with pro bowlers ?
Were the Eagles w/ 3 of their starting Oline out (or whatever the heck it was) and their 8 starters out really that much better than the Giants line?
Were Mullens and his missing 10 starters really filled with talent at key positions and linemen?
i really don't feel like watching this team lose again to figure out how much of this is blitzing and how much it is getting pressure with their front four, but I do not recall it ever being just a rush with the front four. I have a feeling you will argue anyway and just blame Engram or Garret or something to try and justify this weird inexplicable admiration from what is by all accounts a bottom tier starting QB if even a starting QB. Heck Allen , Dalton ad Mullens are backups!
In any case why have other supposed elite Qbs played on bad lines? Peyton , Luck, Wilson. Heck what was the point of taking Jones 6th then?? If he's just a Tannehill ...grab someone..... off the scrap pile and use the picks for "weapons"
That’s really the biggest issue with Jones right now. He’s accurate with the football and he can run. But the decision making needs to be faster. See the play and if it’s not there take off. If the receiver needs time buy time in the pocket with your legs. Too much hesitation. Not enough feel in the pocket yet.
The organization and Jones need to decide what type of QB he is going to be. If he’s going to be more of a Lamar type then they need to feature his legs more and design a simple offense with easy reads. If the vision is more of a Rodgers type, then he needs to be sharper mentally and learn how to buy time in the pocket with his legs.
1. He doesn't have the skill set. There's a hitch in his release, he locks on to his primary read, and he has no pocket presence at all. Jones is a hard worker, a smart kid, and has had access to excellent QB coaching for years...yet he still has bad habits. The NFL is not where you go to unlearn bad habits - it's hard enough to compete against the best players and coaches in the world already without having to relearn how to play. Jones is what he is.
2. The NFL is already moving away from pocket passers for a couple reasons:
a. It is more effective to have a mobile QB
b. College is not producing pocket passers
c. College is not producing offensive linemen that are good at protecting pocket passers
Giving a young QB 3-4 years to learn how to throw from the pocket is enormously inefficient. We're seeing around the league that the college-to-NFL learning curve has never been easier for quarterbacks.
The Giants need to reconcile themselves with the above points, because of they try to turn Jones into a pocket passer it will never work.
1. He doesn't have the skill set. There's a hitch in his release, he locks on to his primary read, and he has no pocket presence at all. Jones is a hard worker, a smart kid, and has had access to excellent QB coaching for years...yet he still has bad habits. The NFL is not where you go to unlearn bad habits - it's hard enough to compete against the best players and coaches in the world already without having to relearn how to play. Jones is what he is.
Giving a young QB 3-4 years to learn how to throw from the pocket is enormously inefficient. We're seeing around the league that the college-to-NFL learning curve has never been easier for quarterbacks.
Lots of respect for your GM opinions, however, on the players/coach aspect of what can be learned/taught. You're right habits do not go away midseason, unless you're Eli, but they absolutely can go away in the offseason. Especially one with extra OTA's and minicamps for new head coaches. We didn't get that. Schuplinski coached a ton of bad habits out of Jimmy G and Brissett, and that's why he was brought here. Giving a qb 3-4 years can provide great return, if you hit. ROI would still be positive.
We saw Dak develop from a QB all of us enjoyed playing against, to one who can actually put up 400 yards against us. His mechanics and footwork look totally different from his rookie year.
QB's develop all the time, lemme rephrase that, good QB's make their name on the ability to develop their game.
Stafford stared down one receiver his first 7 years in the league, didn't have a QBR above 60 until Calvin Johnson left, in his 8th year as a starter. There's a crap ton of examples of those who did develop and those who never kicked the bad habits. It goes both ways.
It's going to come down to all these "teachers" we've hired as coaches, let's put the pressure on them to develop what little talent we have. If we get the 1st overall pick it comes down to what helps us more, Trevor Lawrence, or 3 1st rounders+ and Jones. I'm taking the latter, as talented as I believe Lawrence is.
Case Study
The strategy projects to a similar Jones' comp in Miami, if Miami
1. didn't wait so long to fire Gase
2. tried Tannehill with the new regime on a 1 year deal
They could've used that 5th pick on Mekhi Becton or traded it for 2 more 1sts.
They might be 1st in the AFC East and further along with that strategy, rather than rolling dice, trying to strike gold with a rookie QB.
Now they have 2 legit #1 corners who may be too old when they're ready to start winning. I don't think the FO read the field appropriately after 2018, therefore, the cycle continues.
-The FO got great return from their trades and made an excellent coaching hire, that I will give them credit for.
Right now he has...
1 The worst OL in football being protected by a left tackle who is already being called a bust
2. A starting running back who was on the couch until we called him a month ago
3. A subpar group of WRs who are often hurt. Slayton is a good #2. He has no #1. Shepard is always hurt and everyone here says Tate is trash. We have had guys out there starting who I did not even know were on the roster. These guys cannot get open.
4. A TE who flat out sucks, cannot catch, cannot run proper routes, and cannot block
5. An OC who is subpar calling head scratching calls
So, with no running game we are always in 3rd and long situations. Stats show he is pressured more than any QB and has the shortest window to throw. We all have said these WRs cannot get open.
I am actually surprised he does not look worse and had a chance to win more games this year at the end.
I thought he played well on Thursday & if Engram-that bum-makes that catch, we're 2-5 & the atmosphere around here is totally different, as we'd be in contention in an awful division/finally beat the Eagles.
Of course they would. Just look at the top speed and YPC!
Four whole minutes of not taking the bait hahaha.
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And I still think he's a QB we can win with, but-and it's a HUGE but-the turnovers...we can't gloss over them. It's just alarming. And I know the counterargument is 'Well, P. Manning had a lot of TOs too at the start of his career'. But Manning is one of the best QBs of all time & I don't think any of us see Jones being on the Mt. Rushmore of NFL QBs.
I thought he played well on Thursday & if Engram-that bum-makes that catch, we're 2-5 & the atmosphere around here is totally different, as we'd be in contention in an awful division/finally beat the Eagles.
”Greatest of all times “ I don’t think so. Other than 3 seasons Eli never showed the ability to carry the team. The 2 SB were great but we also had a very strong defense.
So Eli only gave you 3 seasons where he carried a pretty mediocre to above average team to 2 world championships?
So instead lets hand the reigns over to a guy who can't even get into field goal range on the last drive of a game or not throw an int to lose the game?
How does that make sense? I guess it is this whole fascination with the culture's "new" mania. It sucks but it's new at least. We lose every game except to Washington but we can run the rpo and once it awhile danny boy breaks one. To most fans I guess they think "well then they should keep doing that". You keep running that naked bootleg over and over and jones is going to get his leg broken 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage when 3 LBs see it coming a mile a way.
He was 20 for 30, 187 yards, 2 TDs and 1 Int and 1 Fumble. With another 92 yards rushing.
Engram accounted for the 1 int, 30 lost passing yards on the drop, and Jones wouldn't have fumbled to end the game.
just sayin'
Right now he has...
1 The worst OL in football being protected by a left tackle who is already being called a bust
2. A starting running back who was on the couch until we called him a month ago
3. A subpar group of WRs who are often hurt. Slayton is a good #2. He has no #1. Shepard is always hurt and everyone here says Tate is trash. We have had guys out there starting who I did not even know were on the roster. These guys cannot get open.
4. A TE who flat out sucks, cannot catch, cannot run proper routes, and cannot block
5. An OC who is subpar calling head scratching calls
So, with no running game we are always in 3rd and long situations. Stats show he is pressured more than any QB and has the shortest window to throw. We all have said these WRs cannot get open.
I am actually surprised he does not look worse and had a chance to win more games this year at the end.
The ironic thing about this is that these are all conditions that Daniel Jones dealt with in college, and the Giants felt perfectly fine evaluating him as a top ten pick.
Turnovers? I see quarterbacks all over the league every week turning the ball over when pressured.
It s been established Jones is the most pressured quarterback in the league, see the connection
I am very confident Jones is the answer, I have a hard time understanding the bias against him, we ll see who s right.
This Giants team isn't winning a Super Bowl-competing for a division-finishing above .500.
This year is about Daniel Jones and whether you can build around him. The more designed running plays they have for him - the more likely it is he gets hurt. You can't evaluate a guy if he's hurt.
Add in the fact that he's got to design an offensive game plan around the two worst tackles in the NFL, a TE that can't catch, a running game that features a bunch of JAGS, and a WR that can't create separation or get a clean release off the line of scrimmage.
He's also trying to protect a defense that's not as good as they look on paper.
This team's only chance to win any games and protect DJ is call every game exactly the way they are - and there's a good chance that order is coming from Judge.
This Giants team isn't winning a Super Bowl-competing for a division-finishing above .500.
This year is about Daniel Jones and whether you can build around him. The more designed running plays they have for him - the more likely it is he gets hurt. You can't evaluate a guy if he's hurt.
Add in the fact that he's got to design an offensive game plan around the two worst tackles in the NFL, a TE that can't catch, a running game that features a bunch of JAGS, and a WR that can't create separation or get a clean release off the line of scrimmage.
He's also trying to protect a defense that's not as good as they look on paper.
This team's only chance to win any games and protect DJ is call every game exactly the way they are - and there's a good chance that order is coming from Judge.
I love the model Baltimore followed with Jackson of playing to his strengths instead of trying to shoehorn him into a system. The Giants should be doing the same thing with Jones because his skill set is similar.
People love to call out Jones for his warts every single day, let's at least be honest about the other QBs downsides as well.
The ironic thing about this is that these are all conditions that Daniel Jones dealt with in college, and the Giants felt perfectly fine evaluating him as a top ten pick.
I have no idea how to evaluate a QB in college. So many variables... even more than the pros. Not sure what the Giants were looking at or whether they were leaning heavily on the endorsement from his coach.
Meanwhile...ask me about evaluating a defensive back or a WR and I can provide you with NFL scout level feedback.
I love the model Baltimore followed with Jackson of playing to his strengths instead of trying to shoehorn him into a system. The Giants should be doing the same thing with Jones because his skill set is similar.
And it seems we have seen more designed runs for him in recent weeks, so maybe they are.
They are implementing this whole offense on the fly, by the way...
I know it was mentioned that he's running only 4.4 times per game. But that's season average. Has that been consistent, or has it been increasing at all game to game?
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Richmond VA. More specifically, Bon Air.
Funny, I remember when you were looking at a house in Stratford Hills.
I lived in Bon Air at the time...I moved to Stratford Hills!
heh~
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In comment 15026755 GiantNatty said:
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Richmond VA. More specifically, Bon Air.
Funny, I remember when you were looking at a house in Stratford Hills.
I lived in Bon Air at the time...I moved to Stratford Hills!
heh~
I loved my house in Stratford Hills. Both my kids were born there. Saw both Giants Superbowls there. Best years of my life so far. When it’s time to downsize, I’m moving back!
If you watch Mara’s comments after Gettleman was retained last year, he talks about not wanting to blow it up after so much was implemented with DG since he was hired.
We are seeing the consequences of that now, there’s no doubt that a new staff has led to growing pains. It’s why it’s so tough to compete when there is no stability. But, I’m very high on Judge. Here are the records of first year head coaches this year:
Stefanski: 5-2
Rhule: 3-4
Rivera: 2-5
McCarthy: 2-5
Judge: 1-6
The Browns are the most talented, so it’s not shocking CLE is 5-2. The best case scenario for this franchise would be not needed to start over again. I’d rather see Judge & Jones have a strong second half.
No one in the NFL is taking Jones over Mayfield/Jimmy G.
Jackson is in a different stratosphere than any of those guys. I hope whoever would take Jones over Jackson checks themselves into a mental institution.
No one in the NFL is taking Jones over Mayfield/Jimmy G.
Jackson is in a different stratosphere than any of those guys. I hope whoever would take Jones over Jackson checks themselves into a mental institution.
Let me ask you a very simple question.
Do you think Lamar Jackson would be the same player he is today had the Giants drafted him?
Everything else the same. Giants draft Lamar Jackson in 2018 either by a high second round pick or trading back into the first to get him.
Is Lamar Jackson the MVP last year? Is he even close? What does that player look like, and why?
They beat the Cowboys, Redskins, Colts, Bengals (x2), and play the Texans, Jaguars, Giants, Eagles, and Jets. It's absurd.
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I haven't given up on Jones either, but some of these takes are absurd. Jones is currently a bottom five starting QB in the league. He's flashed but is being ruined by a crap team.
No one in the NFL is taking Jones over Mayfield/Jimmy G.
Jackson is in a different stratosphere than any of those guys. I hope whoever would take Jones over Jackson checks themselves into a mental institution.
Let me ask you a very simple question.
Do you think Lamar Jackson would be the same player he is today had the Giants drafted him?
Everything else the same. Giants draft Lamar Jackson in 2018 either by a high second round pick or trading back into the first to get him.
Is Lamar Jackson the MVP last year? Is he even close? What does that player look like, and why?
No, I don't think Jackson is the MVP with the Giants, in large part because their coaching sucked last year (and still sucks on the offensive side of the ball this year). The Giants are a better team with Lamar Jackson, though. Jackson on the Giants is worth a few wins, IMO.
Jackson is a significantly superior player. He was in college and is in the pros. Jackson threw for more yards than Jones in college.
Jackson took a .500 football team and dragged them into the playoffs his rookie season. He completely changed the team.
It's definitely better.
BUT I do worry about this clutchness (for lack of a better word).
He's had the ball in his hands with a chance to tie/win/ice/mount a comeback in 6 games this season. He hasn't done it once.
He couldn't finish the long drive against PIT - as a matter of fact he ruined it.
He couldn't come up with a clutch throw at the end of the game against the Bears - totally had a chance to win/tie the game there.
He had a chance to lead the Giants down the field against the Rams and win/tie the game - couldn't do it.
Had a chance against the Cowboys with under 2 min to lead a game winning drive - couldn't do it.
He had a chance to bury the WFT - he threw a pick in the end zone.
Had a chance to ice the game against the Eagles - couldn't do it.
It's not all on him - he was let down at times by this positional players, his coaches, his OL...but at the end of the day - when you're the QB and you've got the ball with a chance to win/tie/ice a game...it's on you to get the job done...and he hasn't.
This year - that's just a fact.
It's interesting to see that all the fans of Jackson dislike Jones, but Jones' best skillset is similar to Lamar's best skillset, albeit poor man's version. I actually think Jones would be a really good fit on the Ravens team as it's currently designed.
Now, am I saying that Jones is as good as Jackson? No. But am I saying that he has a similar skillset? Yes.
It's just weird to see people go gaga over Jackson but in the same breath say that Jones isn't something that can be worked with and be successful with.
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Richmond VA. More specifically, Bon Air.
We are very Close to each other. I live in Prince George VA
I’m not saying he’s been great, but I’ve seen improvement.
Everything with Jones is that pass or look at that one run or we came so close if Engram only makes that one easy catch.
Eli, Goff Wilson they try and make plays all the time. Wilsons TE dropped one in the end zone in the Sunday Night Game ; he just keep on throwing. J Goff in Monday night takes shots down the field all the time. Eli did the same thing in the Miami game last year. It is pretty obvious this year they have tried minimizing Jones' turnovers. It is resulting in very conservative play and not enough points to win games or him turning the ball over and losing games just the same like Rams/Bears or him just going to his old ways and looking good in certain plays but Turning over the ball just the same and losing to Philly.
I have no idea how to evaluate a QB in college. So many variables... even more than the pros. Not sure what the Giants were looking at or whether they were leaning heavily on the endorsement from his coach.
As much as they try to science it up - and I like the science part of it - it's still more art than science trying to evaluate college QBs.
With the evolution of today's game, outside of the traditional skills (accuracy, size, RPMs, etc), the majority of these are a now a must:
-- Dual threat - able to get first downs by air and land
-- Mobility
-- Athleticism
-- Accuracy outside the pocket
As for Jones, I think his selection was based largely on a desire to find Eli 2.0. So the Cutcliffe connection, going to Manning Passing Camps, personality, toughness, etc, checked so many boxes for the romantics at Jints Central....
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for Jackson and he deserves it. But, he can't throw the ball in cold weather. It's a problem.
It's interesting to see that all the fans of Jackson dislike Jones, but Jones' best skillset is similar to Lamar's best skillset, albeit poor man's version. I actually think Jones would be a really good fit on the Ravens team as it's currently designed.
Now, am I saying that Jones is as good as Jackson? No. But am I saying that he has a similar skillset? Yes.
It's just weird to see people go gaga over Jackson but in the same breath say that Jones isn't something that can be worked with and be successful with.
Just because they are both RPO, fast running QBs they are both the same? Or that jones can some day be as good and win like Jackson? Is that really your argument?
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I have no idea how to evaluate a QB in college. So many variables... even more than the pros. Not sure what the Giants were looking at or whether they were leaning heavily on the endorsement from his coach.
As much as they try to science it up - and I like the science part of it - it's still more art than science trying to evaluate college QBs.
With the evolution of today's game, outside of the traditional skills (accuracy, size, RPMs, etc), the majority of these are a now a must:
-- Dual threat - able to get first downs by air and land
-- Mobility
-- Athleticism
-- Accuracy outside the pocket
As for Jones, I think his selection was based largely on a desire to find Eli 2.0. So the Cutcliffe connection, going to Manning Passing Camps, personality, toughness, etc, checked so many boxes for the romantics at Jints Central....
I fail to see the similarities at all.
Eli was a deep throwing ; good arm QB who thrived in play action pass and took what I am sure many would argue too many chances, and hated running.
jones is actually the opposite -- little arm , short passing rpo QB who is very fast and it is his best attribute.
I’m not saying he’s been great, but I’ve seen improvement.
Is it all Garrett improving or perhaps some of it is the players are becoming more comfortable in the offense. How long do we think it takes for players to be comfortable enough for the OC to be able to use most of the playbook? Of course that depends on that complexity, the teaching effectiveness, the players receiving the teaching.
No one in the NFL is taking Jones over Mayfield/Jimmy G.
Jackson is in a different stratosphere than any of those guys. I hope whoever would take Jones over Jackson checks themselves into a mental institution.
You need to stop at the Kool Aid stand and drink a big cold glass of the Jones Juice.
If Jones had:
Tackles: Trent Williams & Ronnie Staley
Guards: Quentin Nelson & David DeCastro
Center: Jason Kelce
TE: Travis Kelce
WRs: DeAndre Hopkins & Mike Evans
RBs: SBarkley
FB: Kyle Juszczek
We would clearly see how great he is. So until we can get those players, or similar players, it's just not fair to judge Jones.
Daniel Jones 4 wins - 15 loses
Dave Gettleman GM 10 wins - 29 loses
Chris Mara as SR VP Player Personnel 52 wins - 83 loses
You can probably add 2 wins to those totals and another 7 loses by the end of this year.
Cool Stats.
I fail to see the similarities at all.
Eli was a deep throwing ; good arm QB who thrived in play action pass and took what I am sure many would argue too many chances, and hated running.
jones is actually the opposite -- little arm , short passing rpo QB who is very fast and it is his best attribute.
I didn't mean to suggest they were similar by skill sets. But Jones had those intangibles that the romantics at Jints Central crave.
The Raiders manta is "Just Win Baby!"
The Giants mantra is "Just be the 'Giants Way' Baby!"
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I haven't given up on Jones either, but some of these takes are absurd. Jones is currently a bottom five starting QB in the league. He's flashed but is being ruined by a crap team.
No one in the NFL is taking Jones over Mayfield/Jimmy G.
Jackson is in a different stratosphere than any of those guys. I hope whoever would take Jones over Jackson checks themselves into a mental institution.
You need to stop at the Kool Aid stand and drink a big cold glass of the Jones Juice.
If Jones had:
Tackles: Trent Williams & Ronnie Staley
Guards: Quentin Nelson & David DeCastro
Center: Jason Kelce
TE: Travis Kelce
WRs: DeAndre Hopkins & Mike Evans
RBs: SBarkley
FB: Kyle Juszczek
We would clearly see how great he is. So until we can get those players, or similar players, it's just not fair to judge Jones.
Or we can have:
TE: George Kittle
WR: Larry Fitzgerald (or is he washed up. Seems like everyone wants to do that around here to players not playing lights out any longer)
RB Kamara
same lineman as above
Then ...then we'll know
I am starting to think all these people just thought if we jettison Eli then we'll magically be back in the Super bowl. Especially if it a short passing mobile QB. um no.
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I fail to see the similarities at all.
Eli was a deep throwing ; good arm QB who thrived in play action pass and took what I am sure many would argue too many chances, and hated running.
jones is actually the opposite -- little arm , short passing rpo QB who is very fast and it is his best attribute.
I didn't mean to suggest they were similar by skill sets. But Jones had those intangibles that the romantics at Jints Central crave.
The Raiders manta is "Just Win Baby!"
The Giants mantra is "Just be the 'Giants Way' Baby!"
Ahh - being able to work in Jints Central and the Giants Way in one post. Impressive.
Is a complete fabrication, but impressive!
But what's the fabrication?
But what's the fabrication?
What isn't a fabrication?? "Intangibles" might as well be code for random shit to support a terrible take.
"Romantics at Jints Central"??
Hell, I'd argue that the supposed "Giants way" was a lot more productive than the past few years when several non-Giant way moves have been made:
- Hiring McAdoo
- Hiring Shurmur
- Hiring Judge
Isn't the Giants Way hiring only cronies who bow to the Mara's and kiss the ring? Or do they have to remove the silver spoon from their asses too?
2. He is averaging 3.4 yards more per rush than pass (9.5 to 6.1), yet he has attempted 200 more passes (231) than rushes (31).
Daniel Jones 4 wins - 15 loses
Dave Gettleman GM 10 wins - 29 loses
Chris Mara as SR VP Player Personnel 52 wins - 83 loses
You can probably add 2 wins to those totals and another 7 loses by the end of this year.
Cool Stats.
losers.com. Right up your alley. I’m guessing you’re the president?
Does anyone want to compare the track record of the Ravens before Jackson got there, to the track record of the Giants before Jones got here?
Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers.
Does anyone want to compare the track record of the Ravens before Jackson got there, to the track record of the Giants before Jones got here?
Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers.
Referencing the 2 playoff games above obviously.
Does anyone want to compare the track record of the Ravens before Jackson got there, to the track record of the Giants before Jones got here?
Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers.
But the beauty of the Ravens with LJax is they completely overhauled their offense - that fit Flacco - to fit a completely different player in LJax. It was an incredible display of flexibility and out of the box thinking...
Does anyone want to compare the track record of the Ravens before Jackson got there, to the track record of the Giants before Jones got here?
Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers.
Jackson is 24-4 as a starter with a 52/11 TD/INT split, another 14 TDs rushing, an MVP, and an offense that is averaging a little over 30 PPG.
If Jones was doing that this thread wouldn't exist, and everyone here would be going insane over him. People are lauding Jones over getting to 21 points in a loss at Philly - that ain't what life is like for Jackson. Totally different experience.
This place is nuts sometimes with the extent of the homerism.
Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers.
We're starting a QB that's 4-19 with 61% completion percentage,29 TD and 38 turnovers. See for yourself what people are saying about him.
When other teams defenses are getting home with 4-5 people, that leaves 6-7 back and really everyone covered high/low. What defense is worried about getting beat deep by these WR
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Let's remember he went to a franchise that had made the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons before finally missing out on the last play of the last week of the regular season before he got there.
Does anyone want to compare the track record of the Ravens before Jackson got there, to the track record of the Giants before Jones got here?
Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers.
Jackson is 24-4 as a starter with a 52/11 TD/INT split, another 14 TDs rushing, an MVP, and an offense that is averaging a little over 30 PPG.
If Jones was doing that this thread wouldn't exist, and everyone here would be going insane over him. People are lauding Jones over getting to 21 points in a loss at Philly - that ain't what life is like for Jackson. Totally different experience.
This place is nuts sometimes with the extent of the homerism.
Come on Terps, look at the difference in personal around Jackson vs Jones, on both sides of the ball it's a huge void between us and them
To really evaluate the success and value of a quarterback, you need to take all the stats, the performance of the offense, and the performance of the team to determine if the player is doing well and holding up his end.
Prime example, you look at just the positive Winston stats last year, and you'd be inclined to think that's a good QB.
I'm on the record that Jones has the tools to be a good quarterback, and always felt Jones's wheels were his best asset.
I'm optimistic Judge can take those cool stats, and translate them into success.
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In comment 15027262 Chris684 said:
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Let's remember he went to a franchise that had made the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons before finally missing out on the last play of the last week of the regular season before he got there.
Does anyone want to compare the track record of the Ravens before Jackson got there, to the track record of the Giants before Jones got here?
Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers.
Jackson is 24-4 as a starter with a 52/11 TD/INT split, another 14 TDs rushing, an MVP, and an offense that is averaging a little over 30 PPG.
If Jones was doing that this thread wouldn't exist, and everyone here would be going insane over him. People are lauding Jones over getting to 21 points in a loss at Philly - that ain't what life is like for Jackson. Totally different experience.
This place is nuts sometimes with the extent of the homerism.
Come on Terps, look at the difference in personal around Jackson vs Jones, on both sides of the ball it's a huge void between us and them
Including at quarterback, where Jones is not in Jackson's zip code.
When other teams defenses are getting home with 4-5 people, that leaves 6-7 back and really everyone covered high/low. What defense is worried about getting beat deep by these WR
Curious how Eli was able to do it against the dolphins last year ; same shit receivers (supposedly) same shit line.
So why is he at only 4.4 carries per game?
If he's going to be the guy next year, I would acquire two mobile QBs to back him up and install an offense based on the QB as a runner - like they do in Baltimore. That's how you use Jones...not as a pocket passer.
I agree for the most part. Jones in no way is Lamar Jackson but he's definitely a mobile threat and the offense should be 100% catering to his strengths as a runner. When Jackson was drafted in Balt, the offense there was not 100% ready for his skill set as they still had Flacco in the fold. Once the offseason rolled around and Balt was ready to go 100% with Jackson, they ditched Flacco and restructured the offense around Jackson. the rest is MVP history.
The Ravens did everything they could to prevent Jackson from failing.
PS I'd love to see Jones and Jackson switch places just to settle some of these QB chicken or the egg debates once and for all.
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In comment 15027275 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15027262 Chris684 said:
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Let's remember he went to a franchise that had made the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons before finally missing out on the last play of the last week of the regular season before he got there.
Does anyone want to compare the track record of the Ravens before Jackson got there, to the track record of the Giants before Jones got here?
Also, I'd hate to think of what would be said about an NYG quarterback if said QB was 0-2 with a 51% completion percentage, 3 TDs and 5 turnovers.
Jackson is 24-4 as a starter with a 52/11 TD/INT split, another 14 TDs rushing, an MVP, and an offense that is averaging a little over 30 PPG.
If Jones was doing that this thread wouldn't exist, and everyone here would be going insane over him. People are lauding Jones over getting to 21 points in a loss at Philly - that ain't what life is like for Jackson. Totally different experience.
This place is nuts sometimes with the extent of the homerism.
Come on Terps, look at the difference in personal around Jackson vs Jones, on both sides of the ball it's a huge void between us and them
Including at quarterback, where Jones is not in Jackson's zip code.
Yes because Jackson is hot garbage
South side.....pfffft
The Giants are putting Jones in situations that are not best for his skillset, and he is struggling with it. Can he get better? Absolutely. But his problems go well beyond the personnel around him. The mental part of the game is the biggest struggle I see for him.
And for those saying Jackson sucks because he is 0-2 in the playoffs, go check out Eli's first two playoff games. Spoiler alert - he was 0-2 with 2 TDs and 4 INTs.
Other mobile QBs take off when a play breaks down. Jones lacks that pocket presence. He also can't run outside the pocket and throw well consistently. Others can.