Much ink has been spilled on DG and the problems of the front office but I wanted to focus it on a particular issue that has been a concern of mine. I've highlighted DG's attitude and how it didn't seem to meld with modern organizational psychology. Things like personalizing learning styles and understanding respect is a two way street, hard to get away with expecting everyone to be subservient to you. The more in demand a person is the more power they have these days and it is much easier to stand out in a bad way if you don't operate from this place.
It's been my assertion that because the Giants have refused to even understand how the tide is changing, to evolve the thinking in the building, they also don't even understand how to properly value players. They purge people based on "character" then draft players like Baker. It seems like they are looking for people that say, yes sir, no sir as opposed to actually understanding that these days some people will say that to your face and not follow through.
Sitting in a room with someone, looking them in the eye, cannot be underrated but it took me about 3 seconds of being in a room with Daniel Jones to pick up on what have been serious visible flaws of his personality showing up in his game.
My take from the 2019 town hall:
I had a different take on Daniel Jones completely
NoGainDayne : 6/12/2019 12:31 am : link
I hope he has more confidence on an NFL field than he has in front of crowds with public speaking (quite possible).
He looked like a deer in the headlights, you could feel the nervousness he had, it was palpable. He walked to the wrong chair and had to be pointed in the direction of the right chair.
Lawrence was the captivating guy. The guy the others respected as a rookie. He had a presence. |
Some select DG quotes:
The kid has been well trained. The huge part of this, and I’ve said it before, a big part of this is his make-up.
I made up my mind that I was staying for the game and, frankly, he walked out there and I saw a professional quarterback after the three series that I watched, I saw a professional quarterback. I was in full bloom love.
That’s like a bonus here. This kid is really talented, a really talented football player, and the head makes him more better. |
Notes from tonight's (2019) "Giants Town Hall" event - (
New Window )
And delivered
The Giants did their homework, they're just not going to tell the world what they did in a press conference.
If you are referring to how Eli is mocked as clueless than you are giving credence to the mockers who did that based on facial expressions not to who he actually was. I always stood up for Eli and in those town hall meetings Eli was a star every last one I saw of him. His comedic timing was on point, he seemed prepared and thoughtful. Jones couldn't have looked less like Eli.
I think we can agree we’ve seen people with 0 social skills be NFL All Pros & conversely people who act and sound the part be total busts.
Surely you’re not suggesting there is some personality trait you can notice immediately that determines a players success? You could carve out quite a scouting service for yourself.
I think we can agree we’ve seen people with 0 social skills be NFL All Pros & conversely people who act and sound the part be total busts.
Surely you’re not suggesting there is some personality trait you can notice immediately that determines a players success? You could carve out quite a scouting service for yourself.
You are missing my point. I said I saw flaws in 3 seconds, DG indicated that Jones was a person that displayed the opposite of what I saw. He is someone that very much seems to not have the right makeup to be a QB, yet that is what DG seemed to emphasize. I'm not saying I had the right read 100%, I'm saying why was I able to pick up a different and seemingly more accurate read of his flaws with far less time and resources to scout?
This is more about DG being wrong. It's the same thing with Andrew Thomas where we heard how NFL ready he was. Again, he seems to be short in the mental aspects of the game. What is the Giants FO seeing that makes them so sure of how strong and ready these players are mentally that clearly isn't manifesting on the field?
Short and sweet - what is the issue that needs a remedy?
Short and sweet - what is the issue that needs a remedy?
Jones needs to be funnier.
Short and sweet - what is the issue that needs a remedy?
The Giants don't know how to look at a players personalities and project them for success or customize training patterns that maximize a players success. (Maybe something Judge can improve)
The former I'm asserting won't get fixed without massive changes in the scouting department. The fact that they've identified DG as a good leader of men in this day and age is a glaring red flag that they don't know how to identify the right personality traits to succeed in the modern world.
But that is me
We all know intuitively when someone isn't up to the job. We've worked with them, went to school with them, maybe are even friends with them. I'm not saying Jones is low EQ, but you can be sure teams are taking that into account.
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And you can predict how someone is going to play?
I think we can agree we’ve seen people with 0 social skills be NFL All Pros & conversely people who act and sound the part be total busts.
Surely you’re not suggesting there is some personality trait you can notice immediately that determines a players success? You could carve out quite a scouting service for yourself.
You are missing my point. I said I saw flaws in 3 seconds, DG indicated that Jones was a person that displayed the opposite of what I saw. He is someone that very much seems to not have the right makeup to be a QB, yet that is what DG seemed to emphasize. I'm not saying I had the right read 100%, I'm saying why was I able to pick up a different and seemingly more accurate read of his flaws with far less time and resources to scout?
This is more about DG being wrong. It's the same thing with Andrew Thomas where we heard how NFL ready he was. Again, he seems to be short in the mental aspects of the game. What is the Giants FO seeing that makes them so sure of how strong and ready these players are mentally that clearly isn't manifesting on the field?
I will definitely agree with your last point. The process they are using to select players isn’t hitting a high %. It is not translating to on the field play for sure. It’s disheartening.
[quote] And you can predict how someone is going to play?
Fans often create narratives about the teams they root for from a myopic perspective
They come up with narratives that seem ridiculous to others, but they truly believe what they are selling, and you rarely will get them to change their opinion.
I m with you, I think it s a ridiculous idea peddling the idea that a professional athlete being uncomfortable with public speaking translates to being uncomfortable on the field of play.
I find the idea that having confidence in your physical and mental acumen during a completion of a sport you excel in is connected to a totally different arena which many find uncomfortable, just really a reach.
[quote] And you can predict how someone is going to play?
Fans often create narratives about the teams they root for from a myopic perspective
They come up with narratives that seem ridiculous to others, but they truly believe what they are selling, and you rarely will get them to change their opinion.
I m with you, I think it s a ridiculous idea peddling the idea that a professional athlete being uncomfortable with public speaking translates to being uncomfortable on the field of play.
I find the idea that having confidence in your physical and mental acumen during a completion of a sport you excel in is connected to a totally different arena which many find uncomfortable, just really a reach.
It's funny how myopic you are being while accusing me of being that. I saw some concerning traits in Jones before he took the field that have absolutely manifested in his on the field play and it's your position that it is ridiculous to think those two things could be connected?
How are you backing up your statement? I know it's hard for people that support DG to understand this but presence and job performance absolutely are connected, especially at a position like QB where you are a leader. People love to eat up everything Joe Judge says in press conferences but then want to undervalue the presence of Jones. The ride or die Giants supporter group really love to selectively apply concepts.
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In comment 15027499 GiantsRage2007 said:
[quote] And you can predict how someone is going to play?
Fans often create narratives about the teams they root for from a myopic perspective
They come up with narratives that seem ridiculous to others, but they truly believe what they are selling, and you rarely will get them to change their opinion.
I m with you, I think it s a ridiculous idea peddling the idea that a professional athlete being uncomfortable with public speaking translates to being uncomfortable on the field of play.
I find the idea that having confidence in your physical and mental acumen during a completion of a sport you excel in is connected to a totally different arena which many find uncomfortable, just really a reach.
It's funny how myopic you are being while accusing me of being that. I saw some concerning traits in Jones before he took the field that have absolutely manifested in his on the field play and it's your position that it is ridiculous to think those two things could be connected?
How are you backing up your statement? I know it's hard for people that support DG to understand this but presence and job performance absolutely are connected, especially at a position like QB where you are a leader. People love to eat up everything Joe Judge says in press conferences but then want to undervalue the presence of Jones. The ride or die Giants supporter group really love to selectively apply concepts.
I m a fan, no doubt I m myopic at times, although I have often changed my opinions based on arguments to the contrary I have read here.
Nevertheless, The comparison of a kid being uncomfortable with public speaking translating to being a bad quarterback, gotta admit, don’t see it.
Oh, for the record I am not a strong supporter of Gettleman.
That’s about it from me, I’ll sit back and enjoy the show though.
That’s about it from me, I’ll sit back and enjoy the show though.
As usual you don't get it. This is about the way DG sells a pick and as usual he sold the pick in a way that doesn't hold any water.
Just because someone isn't as good of a public speaker doesn't mean they don't have the talent to make up for it. Kyler was an incredible college player, much easier to say hey, this guy might not have some strengths but he has others.
DG talked about Jones as someone who what he had between the ears was what is going to make him successful and i'm raising the point of what exactly did DG see between the ears that made him so confident that a player like Jones who didn't show a fraction of the on field success of Murray would be a star in the NFL meriting the #6 pick?
You never get this about what I'm saying but I'll make the point clearly again. I shouldn't have a better scouting read in 3 seconds than DG does in a whole offseason but my comments and his it certainly looks like mine was closer to the accurate read than his. And again much like with Thomas it's about the way you talk about the scouting that's important. You don't have to talk about how NFL ready Thomas is or how good of a "make-up" Jones has. When his make-up doesn't look very good at all. It's the complete opposite with both those players. Jones has the athletic ability to be in the NFL but has tons of work to do on the mental aspects of his game. Same for Thomas.
As someone else said, if you had some magical ability to judge a player based on them talking in front of a crowd, you'd have a very successful scouting business.
If I wasn't able to provide examples like this you would say I'm just speaking with hindsight. There is no winning with you and mostly you are just bitter that my skepticism about the team and the way that they operate has proven to be a lot more correct than your blind loyalty. So yeah, take your pot shots because there will always be pot shots. You criticize what you can, and when I provide evidence of actually being able to analyze things in different ways than your beloved Giants you find different things to pick at. Congratulations, you know how to complain about everything but Giants management.
And I’m not complaining, I’m enjoying this. It’s really a great read.
As someone else said, if you had some magical ability to judge a player based on them talking in front of a crowd, you'd have a very successful scouting business.
I'm not talking about public speaking, I'm talking about presence, he had a meek and unsure of himself presence even when picking a chair and he seems overwhelmed on the field. Hard to pick a receiver well when you have trouble picking a chair. Those things tie into each other 100%.
People have latched onto the public speaking aspect when EQ is about way more than just public speaking. Joe Montana was a great leader and I bet at no point had any problems selecting a chair to sit in.
And again, I do have some ability to size up people and their emotional intelligence but I'm not claiming any particularly special ability to it. What I am saying is that the Giants seem to be particularly bad at these assessments.
A lot of teams had Jones ranked much lower on their boards despite the obsessive campaign by the Giants to talk about how much other teams liked Jones and the "make-up" touted by DG doesn't really appear to be there with Jones on the field.
And I’m not complaining, I’m enjoying this. It’s really a great read.
If you are counting a lot more people thought I was crazy when I was talking about what a bad choice DG was. Yeah I get that you are a closed minded and generally slow person but some concepts are just harder for people to understand. I'm glad you find it funny, if you are going to be slow it's good to be able to laugh.
I swear BBI is getting dumber.
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I’m not the only one that thinks this is hysterical. Even people that typically side with you on your rants are quietly laughing.
And I’m not complaining, I’m enjoying this. It’s really a great read.
If you are counting a lot more people thought I was crazy when I was talking about what a bad choice DG was. Yeah I get that you are a closed minded and generally slow person but some concepts are just harder for people to understand. I'm glad you find it funny, if you are going to be slow it's good to be able to laugh.
Keep the insults coming you giant baby. Can’t handle the heat don’t make a shitty thread.
Everyone is laughing at this. Not quite sure you noticed it yet but it will sink in eventually (I hope).
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In comment 15027672 UConn4523 said:
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I’m not the only one that thinks this is hysterical. Even people that typically side with you on your rants are quietly laughing.
And I’m not complaining, I’m enjoying this. It’s really a great read.
If you are counting a lot more people thought I was crazy when I was talking about what a bad choice DG was. Yeah I get that you are a closed minded and generally slow person but some concepts are just harder for people to understand. I'm glad you find it funny, if you are going to be slow it's good to be able to laugh.
Keep the insults coming you giant baby. Can’t handle the heat don’t make a shitty thread.
Everyone is laughing at this. Not quite sure you noticed it yet but it will sink in eventually (I hope).
I think there are definitely people on this thread that get it. I'm just making sure you understand how wrong you've been in anything we've gone toe to toe on. You have to understand that right? You won't admit it, that's fine. You can just understand.
People can feel free to think it's dumb, they might not get it. But I'm glad that some do.
EQ is actually almost universally undervalued and undermeasured, it's not unsurprising that people think it's dumb. But people that do good jobs of measuring it and harnessing it have much more successful organizations.
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In comment 15027672 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I’m not the only one that thinks this is hysterical. Even people that typically side with you on your rants are quietly laughing.
And I’m not complaining, I’m enjoying this. It’s really a great read.
If you are counting a lot more people thought I was crazy when I was talking about what a bad choice DG was. Yeah I get that you are a closed minded and generally slow person but some concepts are just harder for people to understand. I'm glad you find it funny, if you are going to be slow it's good to be able to laugh.
Keep the insults coming you giant baby. Can’t handle the heat don’t make a shitty thread.
Everyone is laughing at this. Not quite sure you noticed it yet but it will sink in eventually (I hope).
Where are you going with this? Doesn't seem anywhere good but I think you know that.
My alleged compatriots who normally side with me, he apparently knows the inner workings of how they are reacting to this thread. I guess even though they are normally on my side this thread has turned them. Do you think they are just on an email chain with him and they've come to a group consensus about me or he's just getting a bunch of individual text messages about it?
Be careful. This guy has been known to go to the mods with his resume. He may have taken a psychology class one time....
Since the dawn of time, or at least of human history, there have always been plenty of folks who say one thing and do another, often just the opposite, thing.
You can't be as naive as that quote makes you sound.
I think your insight combines IQ with EQ and Cutting Edge Analytical rigor.
I once saw Bill Maher and Anne Coulter in the corner of a Starbucks at the Indianapolis Airport with caps pulled low and heads down avoiding any contact as they had their morning coffee. Obviously, they are unfit for getting money for being on TV.
I once saw Muhammed Ali barely able to stand and hands shaking while he leaned on his wife at the time. He was checking in to Emory University Medical Center Parkinsons Center. And people think he really said "I am the Greatest of all Time? "Im the King of the World". No way this guy had the confidence to get in a boxing ring. Did I use my EQ/IQ/Advanced Powers of Observation as good as you do?
I once saw Paul Newman with his family in a small resturant near Lyme Rock and he only talked to them the whole time. Thats all he could manage. Obviously, no one with EQ screens should give him millions to be in a motion picture and maybe win an Oscar. He could only talk to his family.
I once saw Jim Brown refuse to give an autograph at the LA Airport. Obviously, no one should pay him to be on a team with other people. He couldnt handle it. Matter of basic EQ.
I once saw Bill Russel laughing in an airport lounge. Thats exactly why most NBA teams avoided hiring him. Just not serious enough. Imagine paying a guy happy go lucky and laughing in one setting and imagine how serious you have to be to win 11 NBA Championships and be the Captain and the Player Coach at one time. If most NBA teams had the EQ to never hire him 50 years ago its a clue as to how old fashioned the Giants must be.
I once saw Julie Andrews being just like Julie Andrews in the British Airways lounge before taking the Concorde to NYC. Obviously, Someone successful like Walt Disney would never hire such a misfit for the role of a governess who once was a postulate at a nunnery much less hire her to watch kids of an upscale banker and slide down chimneys with a dirty chimney sweep. So obvious. And if Disney had the EQ to see a person who was charming but flying first class on the most expansive way to go Heathrow to JFK couldnt handle singing to ordinary people back in 1962...shows you how backwards the Giants are. Obviously, another sound example of how your thesis applies.
I once took a red eye from San Francisco to NY and there was a guy who wore his sunglasses the whole way and all through the terminal at JFK when we landed. Anyone with any EQ would never hire Geraldo Rivera to be on the TV news night after night.
I once went to a rally for Bill Clinton in 1992 and he claimed to be running late. But anyone could see that he sent his wife out to start addressing the crowd because he was too shy to even run for office much less be President. That was in 1992. So good EQ based conclusions were available even back then. Notice how far behind the Giants are at making analytically rigorous assumptions?
I once saw Michael Phelps kindly take the time to sign autographs for little kids in the lobby of the hotel he was staying at. How much EQ does it take to know that kind of guy could never much of a competitor?
I once saw Jamie Lee Curtis waiting to pick up her husband at the Four Seasons and it was obvious she did not enjoy the attention of the tourists. Obviously, anyone with any EQ at all could see she couldn't be a comedienne in a movie or anything like that. Be malpractice for studio after studio pay her for that.
I once saw John Glenn reading his notes prior to a speech and he tried to block out everyone else to concentrate. Nevertheless, he politely said thank you and smiled to anyone who walked over to him and said thank you for your service. Obviously not a guy you would ever want to be a fighter pilot or an astronaut or anything. That was maybe the early 80's? Did Jints Central use the equivalent EQ + Powers of Observation back in the 80's? Behind the curve even back then.
These are only some examples of penetrating insights about the capacity of people to fill other roles in life. All it takes is a little EQ and you can avoid all the obvious failures noted above.
I once saw Pope John Paul and he said nothing the whole time it took to cross the floor at St Peters. How could that person ever be Pope? Thats a job where you have to say things. My EQ/IQ based conclusion is that the only possible answer is that the Vatican uses body doubles. Or there are sometimes two Popes at once. Dont you agree?
"I say things that are thoughtful" has to rank right up there with "I am an artist" on the list of things I really don't want to hear coming out of the mouths of people I spend time with...
yeah, I think you should probably get used to it...