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Per Raanan, Giants discuss Kenny Golladay with Lions

The Dude : 10/28/2020 7:13 pm
Not sure how much stock you put into Jordan Raanan confirming something, but per twitter ( I don’t listen to his podcast), confirms at the very least a discussion was had.

Unless Giants are trading their own expiring players straight up, i don’t see this rebuilding team trading for a future high priced WR. Zero chance any picks should be involved and much like LW last year, why give up assets for someone you can pay in FA. i can only see this happening if A) Lions have no intention of paying Kenny and B) Ironically, LW would have to be involved..or maybe Zeitler/Peppers or other players whose names have popped up in rumors.
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djm  
fkap : 10/29/2020 10:46 am : link
alongside the paying of KG, there's also the price of giving up a draft pick. That's part of the price tag.

It may be worth it to get a top WR for a few years, if you know what the contract will be. The problem with the LW trade is that it didn't come with a pre-arranged deal in place, and the Giants way overpaid for the tag, and the right to negotiate again with a guy who wants more than the Giants thought they would have to pay. You don't want that situation again with KG.

IF the pick (s) you give up AND the contract price is worth it, then go for it. As LW showed, trading just for the right of first negotiation is highly questionable.
Golladay is an injury risk  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/29/2020 11:23 am : link
Last season was the first he played 16 games.

He missed two games this year already with a hamstring. He missed 5 games his rookie year with a hamstring.
I don't want a WR in the first round  
gidiefor : Mod : 10/29/2020 11:35 am : link
We have to go ER in Round 1 this year -- and we need a solid #1 WR -- so I don't have a problem with losing a draft pick to get a receiver like Golladay as long as it's not a 1, 2 or 3



RE: I don't want a WR in the first round  
cokeduplt : 10/29/2020 11:42 am : link
In comment 15028172 gidiefor said:
Quote:
We have to go ER in Round 1 this year -- and we need a solid #1 WR -- so I don't have a problem with losing a draft pick to get a receiver like Golladay as long as it's not a 1, 2 or 3




What if the edger rushers aren’t good? This is how you wind up with Cedric Jones.
RE: djm  
bw in dc : 10/29/2020 11:48 am : link
In comment 15028087 fkap said:
Quote:
alongside the paying of KG, there's also the price of giving up a draft pick. That's part of the price tag.

It may be worth it to get a top WR for a few years, if you know what the contract will be. The problem with the LW trade is that it didn't come with a pre-arranged deal in place, and the Giants way overpaid for the tag, and the right to negotiate again with a guy who wants more than the Giants thought they would have to pay. You don't want that situation again with KG.

IF the pick (s) you give up AND the contract price is worth it, then go for it. As LW showed, trading just for the right of first negotiation is highly questionable.


Well said.

I recall very clearly how many at BBI said Gettleman would not have made the LW deal without some "gentleman's agreement" in place. And getting to a signed contract was going to be a mere formality since Gettleman was smart enough to flesh out the contract beforehand...

Gettleman...there is no substitute.
The market for a WR is immense.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/29/2020 12:01 pm : link
He stands to get a huge payday. Unless the Giants are prepared to make a difficult to refuse offer, trading for him is a mistake.you make that trade, you need to be willing to make sure he doesn't ever leave the building.

You have to offer a contract that beats the lure of Free Agency. His agent wouldn't be doing a good job if he advised him otherwise.
Didn't the Giants have a young highly skilled WR?  
GManinDC : 10/29/2020 12:06 pm : link
...
fkap, ron +1  
JonC : 10/29/2020 12:08 pm : link
There's a time to spend, and now the trades and contracts need to be smart and well timed. A trade now for Golladay it not.
The Giants can afford to  
Dnew15 : 10/29/2020 12:09 pm : link
buy him in FA if he's the guy they really want and Detroit isn't will to pay him.

However, at the end of day, I think the Lions will.

It's rare a talent like KG becomes available at the age of 27.
RE: ...  
Jim in Forest Hills : 10/29/2020 12:15 pm : link
In comment 15027958 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
is Jordan Rico?


This is the mystery behind the Sith!
Rico has been here for years  
JonC : 10/29/2020 12:17 pm : link
and I believe is a doctor.
RE: fkap, ron +1  
bigblue5611_2 : 10/29/2020 12:24 pm : link
In comment 15028216 JonC said:
Quote:
There's a time to spend, and now the trades and contracts need to be smart and well timed. A trade now for Golladay it not.


Would you not do it for a 4th or 5th round pick? Or, as others have floated, a player (LW maybe) for player swap?
No  
JonC : 10/29/2020 12:27 pm : link
I think BBI is starved and overrating him a bit. He's also set to be a UFA after this season. Prefer to not repeat the LW mistake, even with the best of intentions.
Fair enough  
bigblue5611_2 : 10/29/2020 12:39 pm : link
I wouldn't be clamoring for him, but also wouldn't mind seeing Jones get another legitimate weapon to throw to. That said I wouldn't want to give up good draft capital either.
If I'm DG  
JonC : 10/29/2020 12:43 pm : link
I'm looking at WR early in the draft. Cost-controlled, age lines up with the core, no repeat of the LW scenario.

I said the same thing last April in the second round, specifically targeting Pittman Jr or Claypool. Woulda worked out well.
A trade for Golladay is a trade for the right to **tag** Golladay  
Kyle_ : 10/29/2020 12:43 pm : link
Among myriad problems (lack of draft capital, team timeline, roster needs, etc.), that's the first one to confront.

That's all you're getting guaranteed in the deal: the right to have Golladay for the remainder of 2020-21 and then the right to tag Golladay and have his services for 2021-22, and no further, for upwards of $18 million.

As noted above, he's not signing an extension when he's scheduled to become a UFA.
Nope  
JonC : 10/29/2020 12:45 pm : link
It's the LW trade all over again, especially if he wants to be on a winning team and get paid, which he can do as a UFA.
Golladay is a nice WR  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/29/2020 12:48 pm : link
but does he really move the needle for this team? I don't think he's a #1 by any means.
He's a good vertical and red zone threat  
JonC : 10/29/2020 12:57 pm : link
but I'd agree he's not the player to pay #1 dollars.
Like I said last night...  
bw in dc : 10/29/2020 1:05 pm : link
I think this really just an academic exercise.

Detroit has a real chance to qualify for the playoffs. And it's probably a safe bet that Patricia and/or Quinn are on some thin ice. So they need to capitalize on this opportunity. Which means they are more likely buyers and not sellers (e.g. Golloday) before the deadline...
RE: Golladay is a nice WR  
Producer : 10/29/2020 1:08 pm : link
In comment 15028267 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
but does he really move the needle for this team? I don't think he's a #1 by any means.


Golladay is an enormous talent and is very much in the mix of #1 WRs. I don't think you've seen enough of him. Having said that, I agree with bw that Detroit won't deal him. He's a foundational talent.
Giants  
JonC : 10/29/2020 1:09 pm : link
should be looking to sell, stockpile the assets and cap space.

Turn those machines back on!! Selllll!!!
i wouldn’t mind sending a 4th or 3rd for KG  
90.Cal : 10/29/2020 1:09 pm : link
Even if we don’t resign and have to tag him... the Giants aren’t a particularly attractive FA destination at the moment... maybe we have to trade for him just to have a chance at signing him long term. It’s a risk worth taking IMO... DJ is pressured more than any QB and his targets are getting the least separation in all of football. It’s awful watching DJ run for his life with no one open to throw to. We need a #1 WR and KG fits the bill, then again I was for going after AB, 2 to 3 mil and no draft capital cost doesn’t seem to bad now...

We traded JPP for BJ Hill (69th overall)...
We traded Ashtyn Davis (68th overall) for Leonard Williams...

Those trades of good players for mid round (3rd round) draft picks seem devastating to a rebuilding team in need of draft capital but hardly ever really are... I say do it even if it costs us a 3... everyone bitching about the LW trade is unreal... like that pick would have made this team better than LW? Insane. Give me KG for our 3rd round pick. Give me Sewell in round 1 defense in round 2 and let’s sign an Edge that makes it to the FA market
What Plaxico was for Eli  
90.Cal : 10/29/2020 1:12 pm : link
Golladay can be for Jones... potentially.
It's not just the #3 pick in the LW deal  
JonC : 10/29/2020 1:14 pm : link
just that pick alone, I have no problem with, for obvious reasons. But, you traded it and a second pick for a UFA whom you completely whiffed on re-signing to an extension before the DT market took a big leap higher. And, it forced you to tag him which sets the price tag higher nowadays, not lower, because you're buying out their open market leverage too.

Tolerating those mistakes is tough to swallow, it suggests a considerable blind spot.

It's also not just about 2020, that's what a big chunk of BBI consistently fails to grasp.
RE: RE: RE: Rico, an asshat with a pretty solid track record  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/29/2020 1:17 pm : link
In comment 15027702 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15027617 GiantsRage2007 said:


Quote:


In comment 15027614 j_rud said:


Quote:


mentioned this last week.



I saw this last week and shook my head. DG thinks we are 1 player away.




Why does everyone always jump to this conclusion?

Perhaps the giants just want a wr. You might not get this same wr in fa.

Considering Golladay IS AN IMPENDING FREE AGENT, you can roll the fucking dice that you absolutely can get this same WR in FA. And if you can't, it will be because he wanted to sign somewhere else, which will also be the case if he was our FA instead of Detroit's.

It's insane.
Jon  
ryanmkeane : 10/29/2020 1:18 pm : link
yup, I'm looking at CB or EDGE in round 1, WR in round 2. It would line up nicely with the current roster.
ryan  
JonC : 10/29/2020 1:19 pm : link
You finally got something right! j/k
RE: It's not just the #3 pick in the LW deal  
BrettNYG10 : 10/29/2020 1:24 pm : link
In comment 15028298 JonC said:
Quote:
just that pick alone, I have no problem with, for obvious reasons. But, you traded it and a second pick for a UFA whom you completely whiffed on re-signing to an extension before the DT market took a big leap higher. And, it forced you to tag him which sets the price tag higher nowadays, not lower, because you're buying out their open market leverage too.

Tolerating those mistakes is tough to swallow, it suggests a considerable blind spot.

It's also not just about 2020, that's what a big chunk of BBI consistently fails to grasp.


I hated that trade so much and I actually love Williams the player.

A third and a fifth. Those call option picks on cheap contracts are much needed.
I like LW too  
JonC : 10/29/2020 1:27 pm : link
Really liked him out of USC, just don't like paying those big dollars to 3-4 DE. He's a very good player but wouldn't say he's lived up to the draft pedigree yet.

If they'd gotten the extension done, I think alot of the handwringing would've subsided.
RE: ryan  
ryanmkeane : 10/29/2020 1:56 pm : link
In comment 15028305 JonC said:
Quote:
You finally got something right! j/k

I'm working on it
Jon  
ryanmkeane : 10/29/2020 1:56 pm : link
you were high on Okudah this year...I think Surtain II looks to be a better prospect. Thoughts?
Like him a lot, good bloodlines  
JonC : 10/29/2020 2:12 pm : link
Fluid athlete, 6'2 and long, excellent in press, good football IQ and instincts, willing tackler in run support. Only thing I see is he's not a quick twitch athlete with great hips, probably due to his height and length.
They gonna go OL  
GManinDC : 10/29/2020 2:13 pm : link
in the 1st and CB in the 2nd. They won't go WR in the first
RE: A trade for Golladay is a trade for the right to **tag** Golladay  
AcidTest : 10/29/2020 2:15 pm : link
In comment 15028261 Kyle_ said:
Quote:
Among myriad problems (lack of draft capital, team timeline, roster needs, etc.), that's the first one to confront.

That's all you're getting guaranteed in the deal: the right to have Golladay for the remainder of 2020-21 and then the right to tag Golladay and have his services for 2021-22, and no further, for upwards of $18 million.

As noted above, he's not signing an extension when he's scheduled to become a UFA.


Excellent analysis. I wouldn't do the trade unless it was for players only, and we worked out an extension with him, both of which are extremely unlikely. I also agree with JonC that we should just look early in the draft for a WR.
I could see  
HomerJones45 : 10/29/2020 2:21 pm : link
the Giants and Lions swapping Williams for Golladay.
RE: Like him a lot, good bloodlines  
ryanmkeane : 10/29/2020 3:05 pm : link
In comment 15028359 JonC said:
Quote:
Fluid athlete, 6'2 and long, excellent in press, good football IQ and instincts, willing tackler in run support. Only thing I see is he's not a quick twitch athlete with great hips, probably due to his height and length.

Interesting, thanks
RE: I could see  
bw in dc : 10/29/2020 3:23 pm : link
In comment 15028365 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
the Giants and Lions swapping Williams for Golladay.


Can't see it.

Detroit is not deep at WR. Amendola and Marvin Jones are pure complimentary parts. Unless you are high on this year's 5th round pick Quintez Cephus out of Wisconsin... ;)

Golladay makes them vertical. With him out, they are purely a horizontal offense...
it would be doubling down on dumb  
PerpetualNervousness : 10/29/2020 3:32 pm : link
the Giants are a team that needs to acquire as much cheap, young talent as possible. they already traded away two draft picks in the upcoming draft (Isaac Yiadom, anyone?) they are once again going to have a high draft pick, and, just as in the Williams trade, any draft capital you expend to acquire the player nets you simply a pretty valueless first bid option. For all the talk about how Williams wanted to be a Giant etc etc, but, like any smart NFL player, he wanted to maximize his value, and as he and his agent clearly realized, he had the Giants over a barrel in the negotiations. Kenny Golladay has no incentive to sign an underpriced deal with the Giants. So if the team is interested in him, then they should simply do what they should have done with Williams, sign him in free agency. the notion that somehow by owning his rights the Giants will save some money vs price on the free agent market makes no sense. if he ends up being too expensive on the free agent market, then you were never signing him to a long term deal to begin with.
I get it  
Thegratefulhead : 10/29/2020 3:51 pm : link
They understand that have a small shot at Lawrence and reasonable shot at Fields. We need to know what we have in DJ, it is hard to do with our receivers. I would not give up a pick but LW or Zeitler...yeah.
RE: Rico has been here for years  
LBH15 : 10/29/2020 4:07 pm : link
In comment 15028225 JonC said:
Quote:
and I believe is a doctor.


Well it appears he was on top of this inside info a full blown week ago. Hopefully he shares more if able in future.

Certainly doesn't deserve to be cursed at and called a f-ing moron by belligerent posters like Fmic on this site. What an idiot.
RE: He's a good vertical and red zone threat  
GiantsFan84 : 10/29/2020 7:26 pm : link
In comment 15028280 JonC said:
Quote:
but I'd agree he's not the player to pay #1 dollars.


disagree. he's every bit a top wr in this league.

that being said, i wouldn't give up anything earlier than a 4 and if you do the 4 you need to have a contract extension agreed on before the trade
The Lions would never let him go  
.McL. : 10/29/2020 8:04 pm : link
for less than a 3rd, because that's the comp pick they would get if he opted for FA and signed elsewhere.

One the other hand, any team trading for him should have a contract agreement in place BEFORE the trade. Only Gettleman would do it ass backwards.
RE: I don't want a WR in the first round  
Carson53 : 10/30/2020 11:17 am : link
In comment 15028172 gidiefor said:
Quote:
We have to go ER in Round 1 this year -- and we need a solid #1 WR -- so I don't have a problem with losing a draft pick to get a receiver like Golladay as long as it's not a 1, 2 or 3


.

They could also use a CB desperately.
God almighty  
Giant4Life : 10/30/2020 11:34 am : link
Doesn't Gettleman ever learn from his mistakes? Please, no more trades and can his ass 10 seconds after the season is over.
RE: The Lions would never let him go  
BigBlueShock : 10/30/2020 11:46 am : link
In comment 15028652 .McL. said:
Quote:
for less than a 3rd, because that's the comp pick they would get if he opted for FA and signed elsewhere.

One the other hand, any team trading for him should have a contract agreement in place BEFORE the trade. Only Gettleman would do it ass backwards.

That’s assuming the Lions don’t sign any free agents. Who they sign will impact the comp pick formula
I don’t believe for a second that DG would consider making a trade  
steve in ky : 10/30/2020 11:47 am : link
like this unless Judge was firmly onboard. So what would motivate them to consider this if they could get him for the right price? Perhaps Judge believes having a better wr is the only way for him to fully evaluate Jones prior to the draft in order to determine whether or not they consider drafting another qb.
We definitely need to improve our WR Corp and KG is still young  
PatersonPlank : 10/30/2020 12:02 pm : link
He can be part of the future plan. I'd definitely consider him in a player-for-player trade (someone like Zeitler or EE), and I would absolutely consider giving a 3rd for him. Its unlikely we can get a proven WR of his caliber in Rd 3 anyway (at least it would be a guy who's unproven and more of a risk).

All this is of course dependent on getting him signed as part of the deal. I would not let him remain a FA at the end of the year.
Player for player is one thing. But to you all that keep thinking  
LBH15 : 10/30/2020 12:12 pm : link
a winning strategy is to trade our draft picks for another team's relatively good player that they don't want to keep is eye-rolling to say the least.

Have some of you taken a class from Gettleman on how not to rebuild a roster?
RE: RE: He's a good vertical and red zone threat  
JonC : 10/30/2020 12:33 pm : link
In comment 15028625 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
In comment 15028280 JonC said:


Quote:


but I'd agree he's not the player to pay #1 dollars.



disagree. he's every bit a top wr in this league.

that being said, i wouldn't give up anything earlier than a 4 and if you do the 4 you need to have a contract extension agreed on before the trade


If he's a top WR in the NFL, the price tag is much higher, like a #1 draft pick and more.
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