Very harsh Jones criticism from around the league:

missed opportunities, horrible decisions under duress. You can't really object to any of it.

Inaccurate to be honest.

It's time for Jones to make plays, not get congratulated for not fumbling when he gets sacked ffs.

With Darnold as well. I can only hope Judge has the power and conviction to make a change this offseason. The worst case scenario now isn’t that Jones is bad, it’s that he’s just good enough to convince them to stick it out another year.

The level of QB play is as high as it has ever been, and young players are coming up and thriving every season. The Giants should not burn more time waiting on a player who doesn’t have it.

It was good while it lasted.

I think his decision making will improve. Plus, Some of these evaluators do not know what the field looked like from ground level. If there was a 6 foot 5 lineman in the way of his line of sight and he can't see Slayton open deep he can't make the Throw. When I was a HS assistant we had ground level cameras in the endzone and a lot of times what looked like an easy read from the cameras above, was not when you looked at the play from ground level. I do not know if that is the case but it is something to consider. Maybe he needs to learn to climb the pocket better to get a better view????

Everyone has bad days every now and then. Even Eli in years the Giants won it all. Jones couldn't hit ANY deep balls that day but he has hit several extremely nice ones so we know he has the ability do it. I still think he looks like the most athletic person on the field most of the time.

If he cleans up the TOs, I think he will be alright. THe analysis I posted the other day was encouraging from the WAS game. Hopefully it continues.

in that offense. I think Judge is a better coach than Shurmur but not sure if Jones is more confident or comfortable in this offense. I can't believe what we saw last year was a fluke. There was just too many great games by him throwing 3, 4, and 5 TD's a game. I'm certainly no expert but just judging by what I saw. Where did that go?

"scrambled" on two of his INT's. Looked like he made ill advised throws as the pocket was collapsing and he was in the grasp or about to be hit.

I'd like to know what the evaluation would say of Tom Brady's game against us and the subsequently vs. the Saints.

until he starts beating non-Washington teams, people will question his skills and decision-making. I'd be the same for any other QB.

8 touchdown passes in 9 games is simply not good enough in the modern NFL.

In comment 15043276 Blue21 said:

Quote:

in that offense. I think Judge is a better coach than Shurmur but not sure if Jones is more confident or comfortable in this offense. I can't believe what we saw last year was a fluke. There was just too many great games by him throwing 3, 4, and 5 TD's a game. I'm certainly no expert but just judging by what I saw. Where did that go?

One hit wonder. Teams now have film on him and can read him like a book. He hasn't proven he can make any adjustments to counter how defenses are game planning for him now.

with the football and his TB game was terrible.

With that said, I still feel as though we are watching the growing pains of a quarterback who is no longer being spoon-fed and instead is thrown right into the fire with a new offense and all of the responsibility a veteran NFL quarterback must undertake in managing a game. Last year, Jones had a lot of simpler, half-field reads, less responsibility at the LOS and fewer adjustments/calls to make. It's obvious that he's in a much different situation this year, and from time to time you see his mental processing stall as he continues to grasp what he's being asked to do.

It's sink or swim, and that is deliberate. If Jones fails, we will have an opportunity for a do-over in the draft. I still have faith in him, but there's no doubt that it's show-me time.

Jones is 5-16 in his career, 1-16 against everyone except an awful Washington team. He has thrown 8 touchdowns all season in an era where scoring is at an all time high and the good to great QB’s throw touchdown passes at will.

He’s a nice kid, I believe he works hard, but he doesn’t have it.

will transcend beyond being a mediocre starting QB.

However, I think it would be a devastating mistake to give up too early on him. The Giants most likely are not going to be in a position to draft Lawrence and I'm not convinced any of the other QBs are that good prospects that they are worth giving up on Jones.

I think the end of next year will be the key decision point. The Front office needs to get him some more reliable weapons. At that point the OL will have stabilized, Saquan should be back and he will at least have a WR corps that will allow you to eliminate the variable that he has no weapons.

If all those things fall into place, I think you can better assess his preformance.

undersell how bad that Bucs game was. Sure it's just one game. But to not even look at your first read on plays? That goes beyond an off throwing day, and speaks to a guy who is completely lost.

If he hits one, Giants win. And, he missed 3-4 of them.

You don't want him to NEVER take chances, but he has to learn WHEN to take them, and when not to. What you saw in that Tampa game is what we've seen in other games, too. A lack of situational awareness. Those are the INTs you cannot have. That stuff comes with more experience.

He still hasn't wised-up enough to realize that when he's flushed from the pocket and being chased, he shouldn't throw the ball downfield once the defender has hands on him. I get WHY he's doing it, but he needs to learn that's a really low-percentage throw, and that he should either throw it away (which he seldom does), or just take the sack.

That said, if he every gets more protection, he won't be in these situations as often.

So the criticism is fair. And until he corrects it, and the fumbling, he's going to hear criticism.

starting qb is the way he was described coming out of college. Obviously overdrafted with the sixth pick. Doesn't mean he is terrible or that he won't make the occasional great play. He's just not the guy you are building your offense around.

of Tom Brady's poor outing vs Saints?

This is a revisiting of Sando's rankings conducted over the summer. The rankings are the same as they were then, he's just added a few quotes from sources around the league for each QB.

Explains why guys like Murray, Josh Allen, Tannehill are so low considering current-year performance; and guys like Rivers, Stafford, Wentz probably higher than they would be otherwise.
Link to the July list - ( New Window )

Brady is the goat; Jones has a career record of 5-16.

No doubt he had a shit game against the Bucs. Would love to know who this evaluator is. Right now DJ is our ride or die homie. Lets see how the rest of the season plays out.

In comment 15043296 JonC said:

Quote:

If he hits one, Giants win. And, he missed 3-4 of them.

Truth be told, he wasn't that great on Sunday either. 212 yards, 6.2 y/a and a td is pretty pedestrian stuff. About the only good thing to be said is that he didn't turn the ball over.

It may be that he saw their superb pass rush on tape and in-game and didn't think he'd get off the deep routes that were clearly there!

I've been saying lets judge this team and Jones POST-BYE, the final stretch, as they can make adjustments and coach up and heal up giving them a shot to finish strong.

Now I say the Philadelphia game will tell us who we are!! We beat Philly we go into the bye week in the race!! Can Jones step up against a good team in the division under the pressure? If he shows really well and we win (no loss) then we learn a lot about who we have and our future.

In comment 15043309 Bernie said:

Quote:

No doubt he had a shit game against the Bucs. Would love to know who this evaluator is. Right now DJ is our ride or die homie. Lets see how the rest of the season plays out.

Is it a "whatever" like who cares or is DJ our "ride homie"?

If there is no doubt he had a shit game vs Buc than why does it matter who the evaluator is?

If he was on a division rival, or the Jets. We would probably be delighted.

In comment 15043315 Oscar said:

Quote:

If he was on a division rival, or the Jets. We would probably be delighted.

This board has consistently underrated division QBs like Dak. Fan bias cuts both ways with respect to intra-divisional stuff.

And put him in Tier3 at rating of 3.38. The top of tier3 was Kyler Murray, 14th overall at 2.68. Some well known names just above DJ - Derek Carr at 20 (2.98), Baker Mayfield at 21 (3.0), Josh Allen at 22 (3.04), Teddy Brigewater at 23 (3.14) and Darnold at 24 (3.18).

The most ‘positive’ comment from evaluator was:

“It’s hard for me to put my trust in him because you see really good flashes, but then there are just times when there are so many boneheaded mistakes,” an evaluator said. “Him, Sam Darnold, Mitch Trubisky are all the same to me. Talented enough, can scramble enough, but not consistent enough. Are there coaches who can develop these guys?”


My take is it is do or die time for DJ. He needs a strong performance over the next 7 games, otherwise I’m banging the drum for QB in round 1. Hope he balls out, but gun to my head - he is not the guy.

i know he's been largely positive in his public statements, but he doesn't seem like a guy who wears rose colored glasses when it comes to talent evaluation. he is seeing the same tape as everyone else. given the state of the team and what he's trying to accomplish, he's never going to bench jones. this season seems to be about evaluation across the board as much as anything. but i can't see this coach tying himself to a qb he doesn't believe in because he was a high draft pick selected before he arrived.

especially ones that have smarts. Let's see what happens.

In comment 15043276 Blue21 said:

Quote:

in that offense. I think Judge is a better coach than Shurmur but not sure if Jones is more confident or comfortable in this offense. I can't believe what we saw last year was a fluke. There was just too many great games by him throwing 3, 4, and 5 TD's a game. I'm certainly no expert but just judging by what I saw. Where did that go?

This is a legitimate and under-asked question.

Did they select a system QB that works specifically in Shurmur's system, or is he more than that and capable of working in other schemes? If he can't raise his level of play to supersede a system, I lose faith in him being able to lift a team.

He's been fairly dreadful this year, but my hope clings on the fact he's started to string together a few multi-TD games now. O-line is looking better. Zero turnover game last game. Let's see if these are anomalies or him turning a corner.

Jones has had a running game for a total of 2 weeks, give the man a chance to adjust. No off-season, new coach and coordinators. And for the first 6 games he was running for his life and in third and long all day. He will be fine. Maybe never a Mahomes level superstar but he will be a better than average starter once he gets in sync with his receivers, especially on those deep routes. Takes a lot of timing and practice.

In comment 15043331 gary_from_chester said:

Quote:

And put him in Tier3 at rating of 3.38. The top of tier3 was Kyler Murray, 14th overall at 2.68. Some well known names just above DJ - Derek Carr at 20 (2.98), Baker Mayfield at 21 (3.0), Josh Allen at 22 (3.04), Teddy Brigewater at 23 (3.14) and Darnold at 24 (3.18). The most ‘positive’ comment from evaluator was: “It’s hard for me to put my trust in him because you see really good flashes, but then there are just times when there are so many boneheaded mistakes,” an evaluator said. “Him, Sam Darnold, Mitch Trubisky are all the same to me. Talented enough, can scramble enough, but not consistent enough. Are there coaches who can develop these guys?” My take is it is do or die time for DJ. He needs a strong performance over the next 7 games, otherwise I’m banging the drum for QB in round 1. Hope he balls out, but gun to my head - he is not the guy.

The rankings were assigned during the summer, and haven't been adjusted based on current-season performance.

While his surrounding cast has not only been worse than him but has been, in the overall, as bad if not worse than any in the league.

makes a lot of stubborn, boneheaded decisions and throws that having nothing to do with a poor OL, few weapons, or no offseason. He has 15 INTs and 21 fumbles in the last 36 games, and almost had two more last Sunday. That needs to stop or he should be benched. At a minimum, we'll have to look for a new QB in the offseason.

The irony is that I'm not sure his not looking for Slayton during the TB game was his fault. Slayton said he missed one throw in the lights IIRC, and Jones threw to the wrong side on another attempt. But I wonder if that was the wind. Both he and Brady missed quite a few open receivers. Jones may have decided that there was too much of a chance that he'd miss on any deep throw because of the wind to even try.

In comment 15043340 JB_in_DC said:

Quote:

In comment 15043331 gary_from_chester said: Quote: And put him in Tier3 at rating of 3.38. The top of tier3 was Kyler Murray, 14th overall at 2.68. Some well known names just above DJ - Derek Carr at 20 (2.98), Baker Mayfield at 21 (3.0), Josh Allen at 22 (3.04), Teddy Brigewater at 23 (3.14) and Darnold at 24 (3.18). The most ‘positive’ comment from evaluator was: “It’s hard for me to put my trust in him because you see really good flashes, but then there are just times when there are so many boneheaded mistakes,” an evaluator said. “Him, Sam Darnold, Mitch Trubisky are all the same to me. Talented enough, can scramble enough, but not consistent enough. Are there coaches who can develop these guys?” My take is it is do or die time for DJ. He needs a strong performance over the next 7 games, otherwise I’m banging the drum for QB in round 1. Hope he balls out, but gun to my head - he is not the guy. The rankings were assigned during the summer, and haven't been adjusted based on current-season performance.

Correct.....arrow is pointing down....

In comment 15043349 gary_from_chester said:

Quote:

In comment 15043340 JB_in_DC said: Quote: In comment 15043331 gary_from_chester said: Quote: And put him in Tier3 at rating of 3.38. The top of tier3 was Kyler Murray, 14th overall at 2.68. Some well known names just above DJ - Derek Carr at 20 (2.98), Baker Mayfield at 21 (3.0), Josh Allen at 22 (3.04), Teddy Brigewater at 23 (3.14) and Darnold at 24 (3.18). The most ‘positive’ comment from evaluator was: “It’s hard for me to put my trust in him because you see really good flashes, but then there are just times when there are so many boneheaded mistakes,” an evaluator said. “Him, Sam Darnold, Mitch Trubisky are all the same to me. Talented enough, can scramble enough, but not consistent enough. Are there coaches who can develop these guys?” My take is it is do or die time for DJ. He needs a strong performance over the next 7 games, otherwise I’m banging the drum for QB in round 1. Hope he balls out, but gun to my head - he is not the guy. The rankings were assigned during the summer, and haven't been adjusted based on current-season performance. Correct.....arrow is pointing down....

Right. Obviously he's not in the same tier as Murray and Allen if they do this survey now. Half a season left - he's gotta progress.

no 2 ways about it.

22 games into his career. 7 more to go. Will be interesting to watch.

Right now, through 22 games, his numbers compare somewhat favorably to Eli's first 22 games. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. Just a reference/perspective point.

I think this team is well coached enough that they are going to win 2-3 more games.

If you're in the 6-10 pick range, you don't have a shot at Fields and it's a no-brainer that Jones gets year 3, IMO.

The tough situation would be if Jones looks absolutely terrible for the remaining 7 games. If he does, good chance they are picking in the top 3-4. And if he looks that bad, maybe you consider Fields.

I'd say there's probably a 90%+ chance that Jones is the QB in 2021. Can't use a top 10 pick on another QB who's as or greater of a risk as Jones was (Wilson, Lance, Trask).

For what it's worth, I think they still aren't using enough designed runs for him.

In comment 15043347 AcidTest said:

Quote:

makes a lot of stubborn, boneheaded decisions and throws that having nothing to do with a poor OL, few weapons, or no offseason. He has 15 INTs and 21 fumbles in the last 36 games, and almost had two more last Sunday. That needs to stop or he should be benched. At a minimum, we'll have to look for a new QB in the offseason. The irony is that I'm not sure his not looking for Slayton during the TB game was his fault. Slayton said he missed one throw in the lights IIRC, and Jones threw to the wrong side on another attempt. But I wonder if that was the wind. Both he and Brady missed quite a few open receivers. Jones may have decided that there was too much of a chance that he'd miss on any deep throw because of the wind to even try.

He needs to stop throwing spirals. You need to be like Eli and throw ducks that cut right through the wind.

In comment 15043310 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

In comment 15043296 JonC said: Quote: If he hits one, Giants win. And, he missed 3-4 of them. Truth be told, he wasn't that great on Sunday either. 212 yards, 6.2 y/a and a td is pretty pedestrian stuff. About the only good thing to be said is that he didn't turn the ball over.

You beat me to it here. In fact, I don't think Jones has not broken 7 YPA in one game the entire season.

In essence, Jones was a good game manager on Sunday. Not sure those were the expectations with a sixth pick investment, but that's where we seem to be.

As someone suggested above, the Tampa game was the biggest indictment that Jones may not be a franchise QB after all. Garrett called an absolutely brilliant game. Used Tampa's speed and aggressive nature against them. They were completely off balance. Yet, Jones couldn't execute and we left too many points on the field.

In these upcoming games, we are playing the worst pass defense in the NFL (Seattle), 7th worst pass defense (Browns), the 8th worst pass defense (Cincy), and the 2nd worst scoring defense in the league (Dallas...Seattle is the 3rd worst).

If Jones can't light up against a few of these, he really needs to be replaced ASAP.

In comment 15043300 LBH15 said:

Quote:

of Tom Brady's poor outing vs Saints?

I guess the jury is still out on Brady...Not sure he can cut in this league...

In all seriousness, Jones has had a poor supporting cast and not much of a running game all year. But him badly badly missing open receivers and misreading defenses really doesn't have much to do with that. Add in the turnovers and those are really bad signs. I hope and I think he can turn it around- but he has a lot to prove. They are a ton of good young quarterbacks and its never been more important to have one.

That was his worst game as a pro to my eyes. When have you seen him miss that many downfield throws?

He was clearly really off that game, more so than usual.

don't expect Jones to light it up right now. I just want him to be smart with the football. He has an inexperienced OL and few weapons. Barkley is out, and Slayton can easily be doubled. He just needs to be a game manager. Stop waiting five or six seconds for receivers to clear and get open. That just leads to sacks and fumbles. Throw it away instead or run. And stop forcing throws into extremely tight windows. It's fine to punt. The defense is playing well despite having no edge rushers. Dixon is also a good punter.

Have to remember his QBR is #21 for a second year player without a line and weapons and no full training camp. (Eli got the reps his rookie year). He is not top ten yet and had a bad Tampa game. If he continues to hold the TO’s down and ends up around #15-17 he will be right where he should be. Give it time. If he had a Keenan Allen who is open every time to throw to we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Our WR’s are off the scrap pile with a line that struggled for a year and a half with no Barkley.

"They had guys running deep three times and the quarterback doesn’t even look at them.That is the first read in the play."

How does someone know what the first read is without knowing the play design and play call?

In comment 15043371 Trainmaster said:

Quote:

"They had guys running deep three times and the quarterback doesn’t even look at them.That is the first read in the play." How does someone know what the first read is without knowing the play design and play call?

These coaches know every play/formation in the league. If it is a new wrinkle, they can quickly discern the sequence of options. So they know exactly what's going on...

The coaches see DJ in places where they can get a real handle on whether or not he has the goods to succeed. When he isn't being blitzed, hit, sacked and pressured at the highest rates in the league. When he has receivers that are occasionally open or don't drop his passes. Maybe they see that given adequate support he can be really good or maybe they see someone who just doesn't have it. I'd love to know what they see but we'll just have to wait and see what they decide.

Winning 4 of the last 7, winning the division and making noise in the playoffs to having the worst QB?

Seriously though, NFL QBs are judged by production. Unless he proves them different they are right.

is that he is not an accurate passer. People are bamboozled by a few, very nice plays he makes each game but the overall performance AND NUMBERS are unmistakable. His completion pct is near the bottom of the league. He has terrible Y/A and Y/C numbers. He routinely throws to the wrong side of receivers on simple passes and he often overthrows and under-throws. This makes him ineffective. Trubisky and Mariota among others have the same exact problem - a few good plays make them look good but they are not consistently accurate. We will not win a thing with Jones unless he improves dramatically. And unless he improves now, we should be looking for his replacement starting in next year's draft.

I am with you on the accuracy issue. He's missing slightly or by a lot just too frequently.

Then that’s what we will do. Jones has his destiny in his own hands. Anyone who doesn’t think Judge and the FO don’t see the same stuff we’re all seeing and talking about daily is fooling themselves. He either plays us out of the chance to replace him or right into one

In comment 15043333 DC Gmen Fan said:

Quote:

especially ones that have smarts. Let's see what happens.

That would be a reasonable point, except that Jones needs to improve in just SO MANY areas that it's starting to be unlikely he can make the move up to a consistently good player. You could put just about any human out there and say, well he just needs to improve, except the performance deficiencies would be so numerous, most people can't overcome them.

In comment 15043382 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 15043371 Trainmaster said: Quote: "They had guys running deep three times and the quarterback doesn’t even look at them.That is the first read in the play." How does someone know what the first read is without knowing the play design and play call? These coaches know every play/formation in the league. If it is a new wrinkle, they can quickly discern the sequence of options. So they know exactly what's going on...

Man coverage on your #1 WR is also typically enough to be the first read. Slayton was the WR on at least 2-3 of those plays.

how about that comment about his gameplay vs Tampa? And his old Cowboys team probably wishes it had him back in the worst way.

I think Garrett will be moving on to his next HC job pronto.

.

is when you line him up against his contemporaries (Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Kyler) and it is crystal clear those guys are far better than he is.

Jones has 4 wins against the Skins and he won his debut in TB. Other than that he is winless. Blame the OL, the injuries, the skill players all you want - the guy loses a ton.

It comes down to wins. If the team can win with him he will stay. An improving OL will help him as it would anyone.

“Guys running deep” requires the line to block longer. If he holds the ball and goes to throw and his arm is hit (fumble) and you guys blame him every time. Do you see the time other QBs have to throw around the league?

QBR says No!

and he is not looking for mismatches that give him an edge. I am not seeing football smarts from him at all. His main focus now is not turning ball over when a QB's main focus always has to be TO MAKE A PLAY. He is being overcoached and it has made him hesitate even when the play is clearly there.

Hey Danny - when you make plays a turnover can be overlooked. Better start making plays soon . He who hesitates sits on bench.

Sound more like Giant fans who wanted Josh Allen and Sam Darnold.

In comment 15043424 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

“Guys running deep” requires the line to block longer. If he holds the ball and goes to throw and his arm is hit (fumble) and you guys blame him every time. Do you see the time other QBs have to throw around the league?

There were plays in that Tampa game where there was more than enough time for Jones to execute. And there were plays where Jones inexplicably didn't see the obvious. Very concerning.

In comment 15043346 BillT said:

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While his surrounding cast has not only been worse than him but has been, in the overall, as bad if not worse than any in the league.

What you are describing is about somebody else. Is that where you want to go?

In comment 15043331 gary_from_chester said:

Quote:

And put him in Tier3 at rating of 3.38. The top of tier3 was Kyler Murray, 14th overall at 2.68. Some well known names just above DJ - Derek Carr at 20 (2.98), Baker Mayfield at 21 (3.0), Josh Allen at 22 (3.04), Teddy Brigewater at 23 (3.14) and Darnold at 24 (3.18). The most ‘positive’ comment from evaluator was: “It’s hard for me to put my trust in him because you see really good flashes, but then there are just times when there are so many boneheaded mistakes,” an evaluator said. “Him, Sam Darnold, Mitch Trubisky are all the same to me. Talented enough, can scramble enough, but not consistent enough. Are there coaches who can develop these guys?” My take is it is do or die time for DJ. He needs a strong performance over the next 7 games, otherwise I’m banging the drum for QB in round 1. Hope he balls out, but gun to my head - he is not the guy.

I think that quote could be viewed as optimistic. He (with the caveat that we should take all of these anonymous quotes with a grain of salt) says it's not ability, it's development. Specifically asks about the coaching, which suggests that if DJ gets the right help to harness his ability (which probably means getting him to become more mentally attuned to the game) (which may even be less coaching than more in-game experience), then he can succeed.

that the nwind was blowing harder than it seemed in the TB game. Jones almost never misses receivers that badly. I mean, he was missing by over 5 yards. Plus, Brady probably missed a 4-5 easy throws outside the harsh marks as well.

designed to enrage and annoy the Low IQ and easily led.


Again, if you have faith in Judge and Garret to do what they do best, Pay articles of this no mind. The Athletic dog-shit is designed to enrage and aggravate people and get them angry.

Cut it out of your life as a person and a fan and you'll be much better off.

How many people are ready to give up on Jones. Not many second year QBs would be successful going through their second coaching staff in two years, without a pre-season, having his full set of weapons for just one quarter, behind what until recently has arguably been the worst offensive line in football?

IMO opinion it is too early to give up on him, more importantly I think the Giant's will give him 2021 to develop behind a more stable environment.

In comment 15043339 BlueManCrew said:

Quote:

Jones has had a running game for a total of 2 weeks, give the man a chance to adjust. No off-season, new coach and coordinators. And for the first 6 games he was running for his life and in third and long all day. He will be fine. Maybe never a Mahomes level superstar but he will be a better than average starter once he gets in sync with his receivers, especially on those deep routes. Takes a lot of timing and practice.

He got 167 yards on the ground against Washington and put up Gordon Mineshew numbers and 23 points. That's ok except that Mineshew was a 6th rounder not the 6th pick. Sometimes excuses are just that- excuses.

Jones is the type of qb you pick up as a starter when you have everything else in place. Maybe that was the plan along- center the offense on the generational RB and the qb goes along for the ride. If it was, you didn't need to spend the 6th pick.

The book on Daniel is being written by DC's- take away the middle of the field and make him work the real short stuff and the deep sidelines. Ask yourself why our guys, who aren't exactly speed demons, are getting open deep sidelines and why aren't DC's scheming more to stop it. Either Jones doesn't see it which I find it hard to believe that he's not seeing it every time or the DC's are not worried about him trying it.

In comment 15043427 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

QBR says No!

2020 QBR
Joe Burrow - 60.3
Daniel Jones - 54.4

Burrow also slaughters Jones in QB Rate 91.4 to 76.1

Burrow is a much better QB than DJ. Sorry to shatter your illusions.

In comment 15043297 David B. said:

Quote:

You don't want him to NEVER take chances, but he has to learn WHEN to take them, and when not to. What you saw in that Tampa game is what we've seen in other games, too. A lack of situational awareness. Those are the INTs you cannot have. That stuff comes with more experience. He still hasn't wised-up enough to realize that when he's flushed from the pocket and being chased, he shouldn't throw the ball downfield once the defender has hands on him. I get WHY he's doing it, but he needs to learn that's a really low-percentage throw, and that he should either throw it away (which he seldom does), or just take the sack. That said, if he every gets more protection, he won't be in these situations as often. So the criticism is fair. And until he corrects it, and the fumbling, he's going to hear criticism.

I think the bigger issue is he missed seeing wide open guys who were presumably the first read and also royally effed up the 2 pt. conversion. That seems like bad QB instincts to me particularly for the number 6 pick in the draft. That is concerning to me.

While I hate foolish interceptions at least DJ was trying to make something happen there. Just ill-advised.

The poor reading of the field at snap, missing on open throws down field and the delay/inaccurate 2pt conversion play are far more disconcerting.

In comment 15043371 Trainmaster said:

Quote:

"They had guys running deep three times and the quarterback doesn’t even look at them.That is the first read in the play." How does someone know what the first read is without knowing the play design and play call?

If it was the first INT play, it's because he looked at Slayton first and then ditched on the play.

Jones 61.2
JB 60.9

Is the QBR. (You might be looking at Raw)

was that he showed flashes of being able to make the bigtime throws that separate the good starting QBs from the JAG backup game managers. He was overaggressive and got away with a lot of INTs last year, but I found that aggressive trait to have both positive and negative implications since he was a rookie. He made enough impressive throws that it led me to believe his really low YPA last year didn't paint the complete picture of his big play ability.

This year has been really disappointing on that front. He has limited the fumbles a little bit but it's still too much and the turnovers in general are still very high due to the INTs and I've seen far fewer impressive "big boy" throws.

I've mentioned this in the past in regards to Saquon, so much of the NFL comes down to teams making big plays and preventing turnovers. I think Saquon's big play ability + his lack of fumbles made/make him a rare asset to have in this league, and I'm still high on him despite the other flaws. But on the flipside, we have Daniel Jones who is at the other end of the spectrum from a "Postive Big Play" to "Negative Big Play" perspective.

You can't even label Jones a "Game Manager" yet due to all the turnovers, yet he'll never be a true "Gunslinger" because his arm isn't at the level needed to get away with enough of those dangerous high-risk throws on a consistent basis. He's kind of stuck in the middle, and at this point it's an ugly worst of both worlds combination of high turnovers and extremely limited bigtime throws.

I'm still someone who thinks he should finish the year and then we can assess the future from there, but this has been a very disappointing season from Jones.

In comment 15043424 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

“Guys running deep” requires the line to block longer. If he holds the ball and goes to throw and his arm is hit (fumble) and you guys blame him every time. Do you see the time other QBs have to throw around the league?

Next Gen Stats says that Jones has more time than all but 9 starting QB's in the league. Yes, he is also 2nd or 3rd in pressures, but a lot of that is due to him holding the ball too long.

And QBR is hot garbage.

In comment 15043468 BigBlueCane said:

Quote:

designed to enrage and annoy the Low IQ and easily led. Again, if you have faith in Judge and Garret to do what they do best, Pay articles of this no mind. The Athletic dog-shit is designed to enrage and aggravate people and get them angry. Cut it out of your life as a person and a fan and you'll be much better off.

I'm being lead by data. You're choosing "faith" in two coaches who had no say in drafting the QB.

We all agree that TB was a bad game for Jones and that he not only failed to win the game but he actually lost the game. There have been others, this season and last where Jones lost the game due to turnovers and the Giants have been in game where Jones didn’t loose the game, but he also failed to win the game. Hey, that’s gonna happen. As folks point out, Eli had plenty of clunkers and duds.

My question is, what are the games that Jones has won for the Giants? Has he had a game where he picked up the team and carried it to a win? I can’t think of one but maybe someone else can? There’s so many excuses for Jones, and many are valid and fair. But, can he overcome the flaws? Can he make the team better and win games? Is he a franchise QB1 or is he JAG?

Like some others said above, not fumbling and not throwing a pick and putting up one touchdown a game ain’t what we had in mind for the 6th overall pick in the draft. Time to start winning some games DJ.

We all probably agree, as stated above, he's going to get year 3. After year 3, the "give him time" thing is off the table and a fair assessment can be made. If that assessment is he's not the guy, fine, but who knows what our options will be 1.5 seasons from now. I guess my point is, the issue is unripe.

where he fell down against Philly. He's wound too tight. A QB that feels the game and has enough of the game figured out isn't falling down when he's untouched like that.

Ever since then, I have been extremely concerned that the game is too fast and hectic and Jones is wound too tight. Things can change, but they better soon.

Last week's win against the Skins was a start, but he has a long way to go.

In comment 15043513 Section331 said:

Quote:

Next Gen Stats says that Jones has more time than all but 9 starting QB's in the league. Yes, he is also 2nd or 3rd in pressures, but a lot of that is due to him holding the ball too long. And QBR is hot garbage.

I'm thinking you may be right...

I've always been a strong advocate of QBR, but these last two years have eroded my confidence in the people making the judgments. Cases in point - this season, YTD...Jones has a higher QBR than Burrow. And Mayfield is ahead of Herbert.

I've made it a point to watch both Burrow and Herbert and they are playing the position significantly better than the comps above. It's not even close...

In comment 15043499 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

Jones 61.2 JB 60.9 Is the QBR. (You might be looking at Raw)

Here's my link..

where's yours.
football ref 2020 QB stats - ( New Window )

In comment 15043538 djm said:

Quote:

where he fell down against Philly. He's wound too tight. A QB that feels the game and has enough of the game figured out isn't falling down when he's untouched like that.

The first 70 yards was all Daniel Jones.

The last 10 was the "Eli" in him. :-)

In comment 15043541 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 15043513 Section331 said: Quote: Next Gen Stats says that Jones has more time than all but 9 starting QB's in the league. Yes, he is also 2nd or 3rd in pressures, but a lot of that is due to him holding the ball too long. And QBR is hot garbage. I'm thinking you may be right... I've always been a strong advocate of QBR, but these last two years have eroded my confidence in the people making the judgments. Cases in point - this season, YTD...Jones has a higher QBR than Burrow. And Mayfield is ahead of Herbert. I've made it a point to watch both Burrow and Herbert and they are playing the position significantly better than the comps above. It's not even close...

It doesn't matter what stat you look at, Jones is statistically terrible. QBR is alright. It generally rewards very good QBs.

In comment 15043276 Blue21 said:

Quote:

in that offense. I think Judge is a better coach than Shurmur but not sure if Jones is more confident or comfortable in this offense. I can't believe what we saw last year was a fluke. There was just too many great games by him throwing 3, 4, and 5 TD's a game. I'm certainly no expert but just judging by what I saw. Where did that go?

People are overrating last year's performance. I've said this before, but how many times last year was the game close, and the opposition not terrible, and how many times did Jones get things done? Skins game? Tampa too? Ok, that's 2. Every other game last year was either over by the mid 3rd quarter or even sooner.

Jones was under NO pressure last season. It was the typical honeymoon type season. yes the talent around him sucked. YEs the team sucked. And yes, the Giants offense also sucked. Jones did little to nothing to help anything last year other than win 2 games.

In short, Jones has done next to nothing as a Giant. It's high time we all acknowledged that. Dave Brown did more in 1994 than Jones did in 2019. For one thing, Brown went into Cleveland, a winning team, and won a game late in the 4th quarter. He also won 9 games in 94.

Jones sucks until proven otherwise. Be honest about it. Remember Dave Brown. Just like remember the alamo.

In comment 15043538 djm said:

Quote:

where he fell down against Philly. He's wound too tight. A QB that feels the game and has enough of the game figured out isn't falling down when he's untouched like that. Ever since then, I have been extremely concerned that the game is too fast and hectic and Jones is wound too tight. Things can change, but they better soon. Last week's win against the Skins was a start, but he has a long way to go.

I think there is something to this. The game often looks too fast for him. He doesn't seem like a leader (which is totally subjective I know). Maybe that's the tightness you are seeing.

In comment 15043543 LBH15 said:

Quote:

In comment 15043538 djm said: Quote: where he fell down against Philly. He's wound too tight. A QB that feels the game and has enough of the game figured out isn't falling down when he's untouched like that. The first 70 yards was all Daniel Jones. The last 10 was the "Eli" in him. :-)

So he's got the worst of Eli in him. Wonderful.

In comment 15043546 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15043538 djm said: Quote: where he fell down against Philly. He's wound too tight. A QB that feels the game and has enough of the game figured out isn't falling down when he's untouched like that. Ever since then, I have been extremely concerned that the game is too fast and hectic and Jones is wound too tight. Things can change, but they better soon. Last week's win against the Skins was a start, but he has a long way to go. I think there is something to this. The game often looks too fast for him. He doesn't seem like a leader (which is totally subjective I know). Maybe that's the tightness you are seeing.

I am trying to be fair here too. Just because we live in an era of the young QB coming in and playing well right out of the gates, doesn't mean all young QBs can and will produce and it doesn't mean that a struggling young QB won't ever turn things around. Jones could be a legend in the making, who knows, but I can't even listen to someone say he's NOT playing poorly. Jones is the very embodiment of a bad QB right now. Don't wanna here about talent. I have talent. And I am right where I should be, behind a desk.

Jones doesn't see the whole field. Doesn't protect the ball enough. Doesn't make plays enough. Doesn't win games when the game is on the line, nearly enough.

it's that simple.

I defended ELi in 2014-2015- because the Giants offense scored points. Defended him in 2016 because the team was winning and tbhe team scored points when needed, thanks to Eli/Beckham 4th quarter heroics. Defended him after 2017 because 2017 was only the 2nd season out of 15 or so where Eli's offense had struggled to score points. 2018, NYG scored points. 2019 it was time to bench Eli because the team was losing and Jones was in the fold.

Jones has not earned any good will other than he's young.

In comment 15043414 GGGGmen said:

Quote:

is when you line him up against his contemporaries (Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Kyler) and it is crystal clear those guys are far better than he is. Jones has 4 wins against the Skins and he won his debut in TB. Other than that he is winless. Blame the OL, the injuries, the skill players all you want - the guy loses a ton.

He's not a #6 pick. That much should be clear.

With all due respect, Dave Brown was one of the worst QBs I have seen. The guy had the yips in the pocket and at times couldn't throw the ball into the ocean if he was standing on the beach. Granted, it was a different era, but Jones is more talented by a factor of 2X.

That period for the Giants post Simms was QB hell - Brown, Graham, Kanell, Maddox,

you need to look at a variety of different stats together. I think Y/A, time ball is held, pass block win rate and rushing statistics paint a much better picture. Mobility is so important and becoming more and more standard. The biggest problem with Jones is that unlike a QB like Rodgers holding the ball for longer doesn't really ever show up well in increased Y/A. When Jones holds onto the ball it is almost always bad.

Right now completion % is and has been way overvalued. To me lower Y/A can be much more excused if time the ball is held is lower and pass block win rate is lower. IE as a QB you can't hold onto the ball if you know your OL is bad, you have to know you need to get the ball out faster. To me that is the biggest problem with Jones. The OL has been bad for as long as he has started and he's never adjusted.

One of the real crimes of the Eli era was that the team seemingly didn't understand that Eli knew how to do things like place the ball perfectly on a back shoulder throw. And throw his receivers open. He didn't need stars at skill positions to succeed. Our front office has and seems to continue to not understand how to look at who you have on the team and build around the existing talent to stack wins.

We all want Jones to do well; it's what's best for the Giants and he's an easy guy to root for. But what we want doesn't mean shit. Peel away the excuses and rationalizations - he isn't good enough.

Could a switch flip that makes him good enough? Maybe - but there is no reason other than hope to think that will happen.

"Hope" should not enter into any calculations. The Giants entered 2020 with no contingency plan. They can't trust that mistake in 2021.

In comment 15043556 Go Terps said:

Quote:

We all want Jones to do well; it's what's best for the Giants and he's an easy guy to root for. But what we want doesn't mean shit. Peel away the excuses and rationalizations - he isn't good enough. Could a switch flip that makes him good enough? Maybe - but there is no reason other than hope to think that will happen. "Hope" should not enter into any calculations. The Giants entered 2020 with no contingency plan. They can't trust that mistake in 2021.

exactly. we want the switch to go on. It's not there yet. At this stage if it hasn't gone on, it is unlikely to happen. Still possible - for sure, but not likely. So the Giants need to start thinking about moving on and if Jones figures it all out, then it will be a good surprise.

.

begin their analysis with a conclusion. i'm curious how many of you function in the real world.

both qbs struggled throwing downfield. one is a developing qb with plenty of remaining question marks. one is likely the greatest ever.

anyone in northern nj can tell you that the wind incredibly intense that day. it is not at all surprising that a qb might make decisions based upon that.

the reality is that this game probably doesn't serve as a meaningful barometer in determining whether jones is the "right" answer at qb. that is particularly true when reviewing a small sample of decisions to not throw downfield.

and it never has w/o factoring in the human component.

See also Nate Silver.

In comment 15043553 bw in dc said:

Quote:

With all due respect, Dave Brown was one of the worst QBs I have seen. The guy had the yips in the pocket and at times couldn't throw the ball into the ocean if he was standing on the beach. Granted, it was a different era, but Jones is more talented by a factor of 2X. That period for the Giants post Simms was QB hell - Brown, Graham, Kanell, Maddox,

Completely agree but he did more in that 94 first season than Jones did in 2019. Or at least Brown did more winning than Jones ever did.

And again, think back to that game at Cleveland back in 94. Matt SGS did a review on it I believe. I was excited about Brown after that game and even that season, despite the ups and downs. Brown showed some glimpses that year. My point is, they all show glimpses. Doesn't mean shit if they don't play well all the time.

and intermediate routes where he can get the ball out of his hands fast. Otherwise, takes too long on his reads, gets in trouble and tries to do too much. The comparison to Eli is valid. Early in his career, Eli often had the same problem, plus accuracy problems when it looked like he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

Jones may still develop, if he can get through his progressions faster, otherwise, I think he'll be limited to a QB that can only play in certain systems.

but comparing Jones to Eli (2005-2007) is unfair to ELi. Yea they both made mistakes, but one of them won a shit load of games and beat good teams while doing it. Drew Brees and Brett Favre threw a bunch of INTS too. Compare Jones to those guys?

Not to mention the grasp Eli had on the playbook and offense in general. Eli was underrated early on.

is that how we characterize the comments from one individual?

Noting that Aaron Nagler, a Packers blogger, after the Washington game Tweeted a clip of another QB making an awful interception with the comment "This is Daniel Jones bad."

The word is out that Jones stinks. He's sure stunk so far. But I still have hope.

In comment 15043542 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15043499 Carl in CT said: Quote: Jones 61.2 JB 60.9 Is the QBR. (You might be looking at Raw) Here's my link.. where's yours. football ref 2020 QB stats - ( New Window )

Link - ( New Window )

One anonymous Scott says he s bad, must be true. Of course guys like Simms and Bradshaw think the kid has the goods, but they don’t count, I get it.

I don’t mind the skepticism, but the absolute takes, spoken with authority, that the Giants must move on, is for lack of a better phrase, typical fan speak.

I ll leave it to Judge to make the fall on Jones, in the meantime rooting like hell for him to shut his critics up.

I'd bet he'd be open to looking elsewhere. Judge's name is on a 2-7 record in large part because he has had to coach around his quarterback.

If Gettleman is still around there is no reason to think it's Judge's call.

but one thing is clear. If the Giants are in a position to draft Lawrence or Fields, it means Jones has only won four or five games over two years. If that happens, they would certainly be justified in drafting the QB.

In comment 15043594 joeinpa said:

Quote:

One anonymous Scott says he s bad, must be true. Of course guys like Simms and Bradshaw think the kid has the goods, but they don’t count, I get it. I don’t mind the skepticism, but the absolute takes, spoken with authority, that the Giants must move on, is for lack of a better phrase, typical fan speak. I ll leave it to Judge to make the fall on Jones, in the meantime rooting like hell for him to shut his critics up.

it's not just one scout. That we have Jones when we could have had Herbert or Tua is just a disaster for our team. You should be extremely disappointed in our Front Office. WE have been mismanaged in the most important decision that faces an NFL GM.

In comment 15043594 joeinpa said:

Quote:

One anonymous Scott says he s bad, must be true. Of course guys like Simms and Bradshaw think the kid has the goods, but they don’t count, I get it. I don’t mind the skepticism, but the absolute takes, spoken with authority, that the Giants must move on, is for lack of a better phrase, typical fan speak. I ll leave it to Judge to make the fall on Jones, in the meantime rooting like hell for him to shut his critics up.

good post Joe

... to play the Giants out of range to draft a QB. That's basically it.

Lawrence is a Jet already btw.

To do that, he has to beat someone other than Washington.

On that note, I do think something to consider is Jones playing in Shurmur's system. Shurmur is a terrible head coach but there's a long list of bad QBs that he made look good.

Has numerous problems he’s playing throw and catch with Slayton most of the time his primary and only hope, just not enough in game targets. The offensive game plans are not really specialized to get Slayton the ball enough at all. They keep trying to include Engram & whichever other WR’s we throw out there on a weekly basis. His offensive line shows no consistency they can’t be relied upon to give him time to scan the field, can he really make the second or third read before it’s sack time or run for your life. Jones still can’t hold onto the damn football no idea what the plan was to solve that problem but it’s a complete failure. Last week the line showed some surprisingly ability to block for the run shocked the Football Team and most Giants fans. The RB’s he’s handing off the ball to present no game breaking ability at all nothing for a defense to really fear. As I’ve said since SB went down where’s our development RB’s for next year sure not on this team.

So bad mouth Jones all you want but in reality he has a very suspect offensive line, nothing special at RB, not a damn thing at TE’s, only one WR he can depend on and a major issue holding onto the football. Your asking him to show improvement however have the players around him improved we all know the answer to that question hell no.

you've got to win games, and that's what he needs to start doing. Hope he does, a lot about his game to like.

...far from an expert, but the NFL game requires recognition and decisiveness from the QB position, 2 things Jones has shown none of. Quibbling about talent and in-game circumstances does not change this; unless he dramatically improves then it seems unlikely he will succeed regardless of his situation and surrounding talent.

This isn't far off from the feedback I've received regarding Jones..

In comment 15043352 bigbluehoya said:

Quote:

no 2 ways about it. 22 games into his career. 7 more to go. Will be interesting to watch. Right now, through 22 games, his numbers compare somewhat favorably to Eli's first 22 games. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. Just a reference/perspective point. I think this team is well coached enough that they are going to win 2-3 more games. If you're in the 6-10 pick range, you don't have a shot at Fields and it's a no-brainer that Jones gets year 3, IMO. The tough situation would be if Jones looks absolutely terrible for the remaining 7 games. If he does, good chance they are picking in the top 3-4. And if he looks that bad, maybe you consider Fields. I'd say there's probably a 90%+ chance that Jones is the QB in 2021. Can't use a top 10 pick on another QB who's as or greater of a risk as Jones was (Wilson, Lance, Trask). For what it's worth, I think they still aren't using enough designed runs for him.

While I agree with practically everything in your post, I have noticed that DJ has been quite bad....maybe horrendous at reading the edge. The big runs he's ripped off, he could have had several more just based on how many times he doesnt yank the balll from the RB and take it to the sideline. He is either very bad at the read, or is afraid to carry it.

& coming into this season I thought he would be. But he hasn't lived up to my expectations this year. Sophomore slump? Let's hope so. The Lawrence train has sailed-he's either a Jet or Jaguar.

That has been literally the second most infuriating aspect about Jones' play.

Turnovers is 1 with a bullet.

Number 2 is not him zeroing in on receivers. Or missing guys that are open deep. It's that he has the ability to completely alter a team's edge rush threat and deliver "kidney shot" runs for big yardage that could make EVERYTHING easier for him.

ship has sailed. Haha. My bad. It's the scotch typing.

In comment 15043657 Skittlebish said:

Quote:

...far from an expert, but the NFL game requires recognition and decisiveness from the QB position, 2 things Jones has shown none of. Quibbling about talent and in-game circumstances does not change this; unless he dramatically improves then it seems unlikely he will succeed regardless of his situation and surrounding talent.

Im starting to get on board with this too. Its disappointing because I think he has all the tools physically to be pretty fucking awesome, and then the mental toughness would put him in that rarified air. But if he cant process it....

Jones needs to start getting it. It is bad when your great plays kinda look like mistakes.

QB in his second offense with a clear prerogative to clean up his decision making. He’s looked much better in that respect the past couple weeks. It takes time and game reps to put this together. Progress isn’t linear. You work on something like this and all of a sudden the bigger plays are gone. Eventually, hopefully he puts it all together and becomes the franchise QB. From what I’ve see he has all the parts, just needs to put it together. More reps and more he’ll play more fluid. We saw it from him last year, but this year the clear learning point of this season is cut out the poor decision making. This is going to cause hesitancy, but I’m encourage what he’s looked like and done recently. I think he really puts it together after the bye.

career, I don't understand this assertion that he's improving the last few games.

People understand he's a 2nd year player. Most QBs don't need that long to progress anymore, you are the one that doesn't seem to grasp that.

which was an awesome, awesome game. i'm very biased. But he's only beating WFT since then. The mistakes are inexcusable and are drive killer/game killers. But these last few games should be him auditioning for his job. Gettleman should get canned, but like someone else said, if he doesn't Jones probably has another scholarship year waiting him

there are two basic aspects to analyze not just QB play but pro athletes in general, the physical game and the mental game.

His physical tools are ok. His arm has been what we expected, average but not comparable to the really good passers in the league. Above average touch but below average velocity/strength and inconsistent at best accuracy. His running ability has been a pleasant surprise as his 80 yard run and "fastest MPH a QB has reached in 2 years" factoid can't be ignored.

But the mental side has been a major disappointment. He was a smart kid from a smart school like Duke, who had great coaching in Cutcliffe. It was supposed to be a strength of his. Yet it's been the opposite. His pocket presence has been terrible since day 1. He has worked on it a little but is still way worse than average in that regard. His decision making has been highly questionable, he has made a ton of risky throws that leads you to believe he overestimates his arm talent. His ability to read defenses and progression of his reads have both been very poor.

He has journeymen RBs, a developing but still below average OL, a really weak receiving corps with an overrated bust like Engram as his supposed biggest weapon. I'm not ready to give up on Jones and I still think you need to let him finish the year. But it's hard to get excited about his potential when there are so many question marks about both his physical tools and mental ability.

In comment 15043745 NoGainDayne said:

Quote:

career, I don't understand this assertion that he's improving the last few games. People understand he's a 2nd year player. Most QBs don't need that long to progress anymore, you are the one that doesn't seem to grasp that.

It was in the second half of that game where you started to see stuff that you haven’t from him that continued into last week. Like throwing the ball away and the 4th quarter drive. His big blemish was not firing the ball right away on the two pt conversion. Not sure if he thought he saw someone get their arm in their passing lane or what. Not worried about the missed throws in that game because it was an aberration and Brady was missing throws last week all over place as well. Something was up with the crosswinds that night.

In comment 15043745 NoGainDayne said:

Quote:

career, I don't understand this assertion that he's improving the last few games. People understand he's a 2nd year player. Most QBs don't need that long to progress anymore, you are the one that doesn't seem to grasp that.

It was in the second half of that game where you started to see stuff that you haven’t from him that continued into last week. Like throwing the ball away and the 4th quarter drive. His big blemish was not firing the ball right away on the two pt conversion. Not sure if he thought he saw someone get their arm in their passing lane or what. Not worried about the missed throws in that game because it was an aberration and Brady was missing throws last week all over place as well. Something was up with the crosswinds that night.

he looked better last year than this year.

Also he's missed throws when he's had time all year. To single it into one game and act like it's the same that him and Brady missed throws isn't even a remotely complete analysis.

In comment 15043757 NoGainDayne said:

Quote:

he looked better last year than this year. Also he's missed throws when he's had time all year. To single it into one game and act like it's the same that him and Brady missed throws isn't even a remotely complete analysis.

Your seeing what you want to see. He’s missed a handful of throws all year, nothing like the Tampa game. QBs miss throws and in that aspect he’s certainly more accurate than most.

What about this article here?

.

In comment 15043761 NoGainDayne said:

Quote:

What about this article here?

They asked around the league. Problem with that is lots of other guys around league only see those guys in prime time unless actively game planning against him. Hence the comment about the TB game. He was awful until about halfway through the third. He also was uncharacteristically missing a ton of reads. But when you make judgements when n = 1, well your the guy with resume apparently so you know what that means

Brady completed 70% of his passes - 28/40.

In comment 15043767 bw in dc said:

Quote:

Brady completed 70% of his passes - 28/40.

I could be wrong but I think the point of his post was that the anonymous “evaluator” picked one game (which everyone here states is Jones’ worst) to define him. So, he just picked Brady v NO as a like example. Now Brady has a body of work and Jones has an incomplete, nascent body of work so the “evaluator” could be right. But it doesn’t change the point that using a single game to make a conclusion is the very definition of SSS.

are forming their opinions on single games?

You have to be willfully blind to think these things.

In comment 15043770 NoGainDayne said:

Quote:

are forming their opinions on single games? You have to be willfully blind to think these things.

Read the quote. It’s 100% TB and nothing else. That’s where (I’m guessing) the Brady reference was prompted.

And there’s no evidence to say front office professional. Anonymous folks.

It's actually completely in character.

In comment 15043769 Bill L said:

Quote:

In comment 15043767 bw in dc said: Quote: Brady completed 70% of his passes - 28/40. I could be wrong but I think the point of his post was that the anonymous “evaluator” picked one game (which everyone here states is Jones’ worst) to define him. So, he just picked Brady v NO as a like example. Now Brady has a body of work and Jones has an incomplete, nascent body of work so the “evaluator” could be right. But it doesn’t change the point that using a single game to make a conclusion is the very definition of SSS.

Zeke said something was up with the "crosswinds that night", which I'm assuming he meant the Tampa/Giants game on MNF. And that may have been why Jones was off...??

So I wanted to see how those conditions effected Brady. He still completed 70% of his passes.

But maybe I misread the comment...

In comment 15043774 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 15043769 Bill L said: Quote: In comment 15043767 bw in dc said: Quote: Brady completed 70% of his passes - 28/40. I could be wrong but I think the point of his post was that the anonymous “evaluator” picked one game (which everyone here states is Jones’ worst) to define him. So, he just picked Brady v NO as a like example. Now Brady has a body of work and Jones has an incomplete, nascent body of work so the “evaluator” could be right. But it doesn’t change the point that using a single game to make a conclusion is the very definition of SSS. Zeke said something was up with the "crosswinds that night", which I'm assuming he meant the Tampa/Giants game on MNF. And that may have been why Jones was off...?? So I wanted to see how those conditions effected Brady. He still completed 70% of his passes. But maybe I misread the comment...

Probably you didn’t. I misread yours and thought it was part of the larger Brady analogy.

In comment 15043770 NoGainDayne said:

Quote:

are forming their opinions on single games? You have to be willfully blind to think these things.

Quoted as an offensive coach. How much film you think that guy watched on giants offense. Hint- it’s zero. He was basing his opinion of a recent prime time game he saw.

In comment 15043774 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15043769 Bill L said: Quote: In comment 15043767 bw in dc said: Quote: Brady completed 70% of his passes - 28/40. I could be wrong but I think the point of his post was that the anonymous “evaluator” picked one game (which everyone here states is Jones’ worst) to define him. So, he just picked Brady v NO as a like example. Now Brady has a body of work and Jones has an incomplete, nascent body of work so the “evaluator” could be right. But it doesn’t change the point that using a single game to make a conclusion is the very definition of SSS. Zeke said something was up with the "crosswinds that night", which I'm assuming he meant the Tampa/Giants game on MNF. And that may have been why Jones was off...?? So I wanted to see how those conditions effected Brady. He still completed 70% of his passes. But maybe I misread the comment...

Brady missed a ton of throws that he normally makes in his sleep in 1h. There is no way you can say watched that game and believe he didn’t.

Jones, like many current players, falls into the category of mitigating circumstances.

There are lots of plausible explanations for why he's underperformed. But there's very little concrete evidence he has all the tools and qualities to play consistent high quality football.

The Giants roster is lousy with players who, if many things would just line up, would be better.

I wish the Giants roster was lousy with players who were just good as it is right now.

In comment 15043772 Go Terps said:

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It's actually completely in character.

Its been said over and over, but one of the knocks on him coming out of Duke was the fact that he was slow to read defenses and easily confused. that also lead him to lock onto 1 read

In comment 15043594 joeinpa said:

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One anonymous Scott says he s bad, must be true. Of course guys like Simms and Bradshaw think the kid has the goods, but they don’t count, I get it. I don’t mind the skepticism, but the absolute takes, spoken with authority, that the Giants must move on, is for lack of a better phrase, typical fan speak. I ll leave it to Judge to make the fall on Jones, in the meantime rooting like hell for him to shut his critics up.

If you know his name is Scott, how is he anonymous

In comment 15043750 Zeke's Alibi said:

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In comment 15043745 NoGainDayne said: Quote: career, I don't understand this assertion that he's improving the last few games. People understand he's a 2nd year player. Most QBs don't need that long to progress anymore, you are the one that doesn't seem to grasp that. It was in the second half of that game where you started to see stuff that you haven’t from him that continued into last week. Like throwing the ball away and the 4th quarter drive. His big blemish was not firing the ball right away on the two pt conversion. Not sure if he thought he saw someone get their arm in their passing lane or what. Not worried about the missed throws in that game because it was an aberration and Brady was missing throws last week all over place as well. Something was up with the crosswinds that night.

I admire your perseverance in trying to defend DG from his Barkley pick to his DJones pick - in terms of Barkley didn't you defend the pick stating how elite RB's were going to start taking over the NFL? Weren't you saying a while back there was going to be renaissance with RB's? That's why the Barkley pick was good?

Anyhow - after the TB game you said we were going to be favored to win in the next 3 while at the same time you said and a lien came out favoring Wash.

And now you make a comment that DJ showed improvement in his last 2 games. Now all of it sudden it's changed by you to a half- then you focus on his last drive.

Man- just stop it. You don't have to keep making things up. You got 7 games to see DJ. After the 7 games you can evaluate. Just stop making things up and stop making excuses. There's 7 more games. You don't need a proclamation yet. Just stop making things up.

In comment 15044289 Red Right Hand said:

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In comment 15043594 joeinpa said: Quote: One anonymous Scott says he s bad, must be true. Of course guys like Simms and Bradshaw think the kid has the goods, but they don’t count, I get it. I don’t mind the skepticism, but the absolute takes, spoken with authority, that the Giants must move on, is for lack of a better phrase, typical fan speak. I ll leave it to Judge to make the fall on Jones, in the meantime rooting like hell for him to shut his critics up. If you know his name is Scott, how is he anonymous

Joe is another one a classy poster like Zeke-- but he is "dug in" with Jones and "dug in" trying to be optimistic. You blast Jones he is going to not like it because he thinks Jones is special.

In comment 15043347 AcidTest said:

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makes a lot of stubborn, boneheaded decisions and throws that having nothing to do with a poor OL, few weapons, or no offseason. He has 15 INTs and 21 fumbles in the last 36 games, and almost had two more last Sunday. That needs to stop or he should be benched. At a minimum, we'll have to look for a new QB in the offseason. The irony is that I'm not sure his not looking for Slayton during the TB game was his fault. Slayton said he missed one throw in the lights IIRC, and Jones threw to the wrong side on another attempt. But I wonder if that was the wind. Both he and Brady missed quite a few open receivers. Jones may have decided that there was too much of a chance that he'd miss on any deep throw because of the wind to even try.

Two weeks in a row without a turnover is a step in the right direction. He needs to continue that trend.
He had something like 35 turnovers in his first
20 starts, so he needs to continue the recent trend.

In comment 15043741 Zeke's Alibi said:

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QB in his second offense with a clear prerogative to clean up his decision making. He’s looked much better in that respect the past couple weeks. It takes time and game reps to put this together. Progress isn’t linear. You work on something like this and all of a sudden the bigger plays are gone. Eventually, hopefully he puts it all together and becomes the franchise QB. From what I’ve see he has all the parts, just needs to put it together. More reps and more he’ll play more fluid. We saw it from him last year, but this year the clear learning point of this season is cut out the poor decision making. This is going to cause hesitancy, but I’m encourage what he’s looked like and done recently. I think he really puts it together after the bye.

Thought I bump this. Looks to be one week ahead of schedule. Not sure what people are watching that they didn't see this.

In comment 15043757 NoGainDayne said:

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he looked better last year than this year. Also he's missed throws when he's had time all year. To single it into one game and act like it's the same that him and Brady missed throws isn't even a remotely complete analysis.

And this is why you can keep clinging to your analytics or whatever you do to assess football and I'll keep trusting what my eyes tell me. Missed throws? Go look at what the advanced analytics are when DJ is throwing from a clean pocket. Awfully quiet here today for someone that often spouts repeating diatribes on this site day in and day out.

Pretty much everything I said about DJ was spot on and personally wasn't expecting to see performances like that after the bye which is extremely encouraging. We'll see this more often than not from here on out. What he's done since the second half of the Tampa game shows me he gets it now.