Very harsh Jones criticism from around the league:

Noting that Aaron Nagler, a Packers blogger, after the Washington game Tweeted a clip of another QB making an awful interception with the comment "This is Daniel Jones bad."

The word is out that Jones stinks. He's sure stunk so far. But I still have hope.

In comment 15043542 Producer said:

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In comment 15043499 Carl in CT said: Quote: Jones 61.2 JB 60.9 Is the QBR. (You might be looking at Raw) Here's my link.. where's yours. football ref 2020 QB stats - ( New Window )

Link - ( New Window )

One anonymous Scott says he s bad, must be true. Of course guys like Simms and Bradshaw think the kid has the goods, but they don’t count, I get it.

I don’t mind the skepticism, but the absolute takes, spoken with authority, that the Giants must move on, is for lack of a better phrase, typical fan speak.

I ll leave it to Judge to make the fall on Jones, in the meantime rooting like hell for him to shut his critics up.

I'd bet he'd be open to looking elsewhere. Judge's name is on a 2-7 record in large part because he has had to coach around his quarterback.

If Gettleman is still around there is no reason to think it's Judge's call.

but one thing is clear. If the Giants are in a position to draft Lawrence or Fields, it means Jones has only won four or five games over two years. If that happens, they would certainly be justified in drafting the QB.

In comment 15043594 joeinpa said:

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One anonymous Scott says he s bad, must be true. Of course guys like Simms and Bradshaw think the kid has the goods, but they don’t count, I get it. I don’t mind the skepticism, but the absolute takes, spoken with authority, that the Giants must move on, is for lack of a better phrase, typical fan speak. I ll leave it to Judge to make the fall on Jones, in the meantime rooting like hell for him to shut his critics up.

it's not just one scout. That we have Jones when we could have had Herbert or Tua is just a disaster for our team. You should be extremely disappointed in our Front Office. WE have been mismanaged in the most important decision that faces an NFL GM.

In comment 15043594 joeinpa said:

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One anonymous Scott says he s bad, must be true. Of course guys like Simms and Bradshaw think the kid has the goods, but they don’t count, I get it. I don’t mind the skepticism, but the absolute takes, spoken with authority, that the Giants must move on, is for lack of a better phrase, typical fan speak. I ll leave it to Judge to make the fall on Jones, in the meantime rooting like hell for him to shut his critics up.

good post Joe

... to play the Giants out of range to draft a QB. That's basically it.

Lawrence is a Jet already btw.

To do that, he has to beat someone other than Washington.

On that note, I do think something to consider is Jones playing in Shurmur's system. Shurmur is a terrible head coach but there's a long list of bad QBs that he made look good.

Has numerous problems he’s playing throw and catch with Slayton most of the time his primary and only hope, just not enough in game targets. The offensive game plans are not really specialized to get Slayton the ball enough at all. They keep trying to include Engram & whichever other WR’s we throw out there on a weekly basis. His offensive line shows no consistency they can’t be relied upon to give him time to scan the field, can he really make the second or third read before it’s sack time or run for your life. Jones still can’t hold onto the damn football no idea what the plan was to solve that problem but it’s a complete failure. Last week the line showed some surprisingly ability to block for the run shocked the Football Team and most Giants fans. The RB’s he’s handing off the ball to present no game breaking ability at all nothing for a defense to really fear. As I’ve said since SB went down where’s our development RB’s for next year sure not on this team.

So bad mouth Jones all you want but in reality he has a very suspect offensive line, nothing special at RB, not a damn thing at TE’s, only one WR he can depend on and a major issue holding onto the football. Your asking him to show improvement however have the players around him improved we all know the answer to that question hell no.

you've got to win games, and that's what he needs to start doing. Hope he does, a lot about his game to like.

...far from an expert, but the NFL game requires recognition and decisiveness from the QB position, 2 things Jones has shown none of. Quibbling about talent and in-game circumstances does not change this; unless he dramatically improves then it seems unlikely he will succeed regardless of his situation and surrounding talent.

This isn't far off from the feedback I've received regarding Jones..

In comment 15043352 bigbluehoya said:

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no 2 ways about it. 22 games into his career. 7 more to go. Will be interesting to watch. Right now, through 22 games, his numbers compare somewhat favorably to Eli's first 22 games. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. Just a reference/perspective point. I think this team is well coached enough that they are going to win 2-3 more games. If you're in the 6-10 pick range, you don't have a shot at Fields and it's a no-brainer that Jones gets year 3, IMO. The tough situation would be if Jones looks absolutely terrible for the remaining 7 games. If he does, good chance they are picking in the top 3-4. And if he looks that bad, maybe you consider Fields. I'd say there's probably a 90%+ chance that Jones is the QB in 2021. Can't use a top 10 pick on another QB who's as or greater of a risk as Jones was (Wilson, Lance, Trask). For what it's worth, I think they still aren't using enough designed runs for him.

While I agree with practically everything in your post, I have noticed that DJ has been quite bad....maybe horrendous at reading the edge. The big runs he's ripped off, he could have had several more just based on how many times he doesnt yank the balll from the RB and take it to the sideline. He is either very bad at the read, or is afraid to carry it.

& coming into this season I thought he would be. But he hasn't lived up to my expectations this year. Sophomore slump? Let's hope so. The Lawrence train has sailed-he's either a Jet or Jaguar.

That has been literally the second most infuriating aspect about Jones' play.

Turnovers is 1 with a bullet.

Number 2 is not him zeroing in on receivers. Or missing guys that are open deep. It's that he has the ability to completely alter a team's edge rush threat and deliver "kidney shot" runs for big yardage that could make EVERYTHING easier for him.

ship has sailed. Haha. My bad. It's the scotch typing.

In comment 15043657 Skittlebish said:

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...far from an expert, but the NFL game requires recognition and decisiveness from the QB position, 2 things Jones has shown none of. Quibbling about talent and in-game circumstances does not change this; unless he dramatically improves then it seems unlikely he will succeed regardless of his situation and surrounding talent.

Im starting to get on board with this too. Its disappointing because I think he has all the tools physically to be pretty fucking awesome, and then the mental toughness would put him in that rarified air. But if he cant process it....

Jones needs to start getting it. It is bad when your great plays kinda look like mistakes.

QB in his second offense with a clear prerogative to clean up his decision making. He’s looked much better in that respect the past couple weeks. It takes time and game reps to put this together. Progress isn’t linear. You work on something like this and all of a sudden the bigger plays are gone. Eventually, hopefully he puts it all together and becomes the franchise QB. From what I’ve see he has all the parts, just needs to put it together. More reps and more he’ll play more fluid. We saw it from him last year, but this year the clear learning point of this season is cut out the poor decision making. This is going to cause hesitancy, but I’m encourage what he’s looked like and done recently. I think he really puts it together after the bye.

career, I don't understand this assertion that he's improving the last few games.

People understand he's a 2nd year player. Most QBs don't need that long to progress anymore, you are the one that doesn't seem to grasp that.

which was an awesome, awesome game. i'm very biased. But he's only beating WFT since then. The mistakes are inexcusable and are drive killer/game killers. But these last few games should be him auditioning for his job. Gettleman should get canned, but like someone else said, if he doesn't Jones probably has another scholarship year waiting him

there are two basic aspects to analyze not just QB play but pro athletes in general, the physical game and the mental game.

His physical tools are ok. His arm has been what we expected, average but not comparable to the really good passers in the league. Above average touch but below average velocity/strength and inconsistent at best accuracy. His running ability has been a pleasant surprise as his 80 yard run and "fastest MPH a QB has reached in 2 years" factoid can't be ignored.

But the mental side has been a major disappointment. He was a smart kid from a smart school like Duke, who had great coaching in Cutcliffe. It was supposed to be a strength of his. Yet it's been the opposite. His pocket presence has been terrible since day 1. He has worked on it a little but is still way worse than average in that regard. His decision making has been highly questionable, he has made a ton of risky throws that leads you to believe he overestimates his arm talent. His ability to read defenses and progression of his reads have both been very poor.

He has journeymen RBs, a developing but still below average OL, a really weak receiving corps with an overrated bust like Engram as his supposed biggest weapon. I'm not ready to give up on Jones and I still think you need to let him finish the year. But it's hard to get excited about his potential when there are so many question marks about both his physical tools and mental ability.

In comment 15043745 NoGainDayne said:

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career, I don't understand this assertion that he's improving the last few games. People understand he's a 2nd year player. Most QBs don't need that long to progress anymore, you are the one that doesn't seem to grasp that.

It was in the second half of that game where you started to see stuff that you haven’t from him that continued into last week. Like throwing the ball away and the 4th quarter drive. His big blemish was not firing the ball right away on the two pt conversion. Not sure if he thought he saw someone get their arm in their passing lane or what. Not worried about the missed throws in that game because it was an aberration and Brady was missing throws last week all over place as well. Something was up with the crosswinds that night.

In comment 15043745 NoGainDayne said:

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career, I don't understand this assertion that he's improving the last few games. People understand he's a 2nd year player. Most QBs don't need that long to progress anymore, you are the one that doesn't seem to grasp that.

It was in the second half of that game where you started to see stuff that you haven’t from him that continued into last week. Like throwing the ball away and the 4th quarter drive. His big blemish was not firing the ball right away on the two pt conversion. Not sure if he thought he saw someone get their arm in their passing lane or what. Not worried about the missed throws in that game because it was an aberration and Brady was missing throws last week all over place as well. Something was up with the crosswinds that night.

he looked better last year than this year.

Also he's missed throws when he's had time all year. To single it into one game and act like it's the same that him and Brady missed throws isn't even a remotely complete analysis.

In comment 15043757 NoGainDayne said:

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he looked better last year than this year. Also he's missed throws when he's had time all year. To single it into one game and act like it's the same that him and Brady missed throws isn't even a remotely complete analysis.

Your seeing what you want to see. He’s missed a handful of throws all year, nothing like the Tampa game. QBs miss throws and in that aspect he’s certainly more accurate than most.

What about this article here?

.

In comment 15043761 NoGainDayne said:

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What about this article here?

They asked around the league. Problem with that is lots of other guys around league only see those guys in prime time unless actively game planning against him. Hence the comment about the TB game. He was awful until about halfway through the third. He also was uncharacteristically missing a ton of reads. But when you make judgements when n = 1, well your the guy with resume apparently so you know what that means

Brady completed 70% of his passes - 28/40.

In comment 15043767 bw in dc said:

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Brady completed 70% of his passes - 28/40.

I could be wrong but I think the point of his post was that the anonymous “evaluator” picked one game (which everyone here states is Jones’ worst) to define him. So, he just picked Brady v NO as a like example. Now Brady has a body of work and Jones has an incomplete, nascent body of work so the “evaluator” could be right. But it doesn’t change the point that using a single game to make a conclusion is the very definition of SSS.

are forming their opinions on single games?

You have to be willfully blind to think these things.

In comment 15043770 NoGainDayne said:

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are forming their opinions on single games? You have to be willfully blind to think these things.

Read the quote. It’s 100% TB and nothing else. That’s where (I’m guessing) the Brady reference was prompted.

And there’s no evidence to say front office professional. Anonymous folks.

It's actually completely in character.

In comment 15043769 Bill L said:

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In comment 15043767 bw in dc said: Quote: Brady completed 70% of his passes - 28/40. I could be wrong but I think the point of his post was that the anonymous “evaluator” picked one game (which everyone here states is Jones’ worst) to define him. So, he just picked Brady v NO as a like example. Now Brady has a body of work and Jones has an incomplete, nascent body of work so the “evaluator” could be right. But it doesn’t change the point that using a single game to make a conclusion is the very definition of SSS.

Zeke said something was up with the "crosswinds that night", which I'm assuming he meant the Tampa/Giants game on MNF. And that may have been why Jones was off...??

So I wanted to see how those conditions effected Brady. He still completed 70% of his passes.

But maybe I misread the comment...

In comment 15043774 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15043769 Bill L said: Quote: In comment 15043767 bw in dc said: Quote: Brady completed 70% of his passes - 28/40. I could be wrong but I think the point of his post was that the anonymous “evaluator” picked one game (which everyone here states is Jones’ worst) to define him. So, he just picked Brady v NO as a like example. Now Brady has a body of work and Jones has an incomplete, nascent body of work so the “evaluator” could be right. But it doesn’t change the point that using a single game to make a conclusion is the very definition of SSS. Zeke said something was up with the "crosswinds that night", which I'm assuming he meant the Tampa/Giants game on MNF. And that may have been why Jones was off...?? So I wanted to see how those conditions effected Brady. He still completed 70% of his passes. But maybe I misread the comment...

Probably you didn’t. I misread yours and thought it was part of the larger Brady analogy.

In comment 15043770 NoGainDayne said:

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are forming their opinions on single games? You have to be willfully blind to think these things.

Quoted as an offensive coach. How much film you think that guy watched on giants offense. Hint- it’s zero. He was basing his opinion of a recent prime time game he saw.

In comment 15043774 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15043769 Bill L said: Quote: In comment 15043767 bw in dc said: Quote: Brady completed 70% of his passes - 28/40. I could be wrong but I think the point of his post was that the anonymous “evaluator” picked one game (which everyone here states is Jones’ worst) to define him. So, he just picked Brady v NO as a like example. Now Brady has a body of work and Jones has an incomplete, nascent body of work so the “evaluator” could be right. But it doesn’t change the point that using a single game to make a conclusion is the very definition of SSS. Zeke said something was up with the "crosswinds that night", which I'm assuming he meant the Tampa/Giants game on MNF. And that may have been why Jones was off...?? So I wanted to see how those conditions effected Brady. He still completed 70% of his passes. But maybe I misread the comment...

Brady missed a ton of throws that he normally makes in his sleep in 1h. There is no way you can say watched that game and believe he didn’t.

Jones, like many current players, falls into the category of mitigating circumstances.

There are lots of plausible explanations for why he's underperformed. But there's very little concrete evidence he has all the tools and qualities to play consistent high quality football.

The Giants roster is lousy with players who, if many things would just line up, would be better.

I wish the Giants roster was lousy with players who were just good as it is right now.

In comment 15043772 Go Terps said:

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It's actually completely in character.

Its been said over and over, but one of the knocks on him coming out of Duke was the fact that he was slow to read defenses and easily confused. that also lead him to lock onto 1 read

In comment 15043594 joeinpa said:

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One anonymous Scott says he s bad, must be true. Of course guys like Simms and Bradshaw think the kid has the goods, but they don’t count, I get it. I don’t mind the skepticism, but the absolute takes, spoken with authority, that the Giants must move on, is for lack of a better phrase, typical fan speak. I ll leave it to Judge to make the fall on Jones, in the meantime rooting like hell for him to shut his critics up.

If you know his name is Scott, how is he anonymous

In comment 15043750 Zeke's Alibi said:

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In comment 15043745 NoGainDayne said: Quote: career, I don't understand this assertion that he's improving the last few games. People understand he's a 2nd year player. Most QBs don't need that long to progress anymore, you are the one that doesn't seem to grasp that. It was in the second half of that game where you started to see stuff that you haven’t from him that continued into last week. Like throwing the ball away and the 4th quarter drive. His big blemish was not firing the ball right away on the two pt conversion. Not sure if he thought he saw someone get their arm in their passing lane or what. Not worried about the missed throws in that game because it was an aberration and Brady was missing throws last week all over place as well. Something was up with the crosswinds that night.

I admire your perseverance in trying to defend DG from his Barkley pick to his DJones pick - in terms of Barkley didn't you defend the pick stating how elite RB's were going to start taking over the NFL? Weren't you saying a while back there was going to be renaissance with RB's? That's why the Barkley pick was good?

Anyhow - after the TB game you said we were going to be favored to win in the next 3 while at the same time you said and a lien came out favoring Wash.

And now you make a comment that DJ showed improvement in his last 2 games. Now all of it sudden it's changed by you to a half- then you focus on his last drive.

Man- just stop it. You don't have to keep making things up. You got 7 games to see DJ. After the 7 games you can evaluate. Just stop making things up and stop making excuses. There's 7 more games. You don't need a proclamation yet. Just stop making things up.

In comment 15044289 Red Right Hand said:

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In comment 15043594 joeinpa said: Quote: One anonymous Scott says he s bad, must be true. Of course guys like Simms and Bradshaw think the kid has the goods, but they don’t count, I get it. I don’t mind the skepticism, but the absolute takes, spoken with authority, that the Giants must move on, is for lack of a better phrase, typical fan speak. I ll leave it to Judge to make the fall on Jones, in the meantime rooting like hell for him to shut his critics up. If you know his name is Scott, how is he anonymous

Joe is another one a classy poster like Zeke-- but he is "dug in" with Jones and "dug in" trying to be optimistic. You blast Jones he is going to not like it because he thinks Jones is special.

In comment 15043347 AcidTest said:

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makes a lot of stubborn, boneheaded decisions and throws that having nothing to do with a poor OL, few weapons, or no offseason. He has 15 INTs and 21 fumbles in the last 36 games, and almost had two more last Sunday. That needs to stop or he should be benched. At a minimum, we'll have to look for a new QB in the offseason. The irony is that I'm not sure his not looking for Slayton during the TB game was his fault. Slayton said he missed one throw in the lights IIRC, and Jones threw to the wrong side on another attempt. But I wonder if that was the wind. Both he and Brady missed quite a few open receivers. Jones may have decided that there was too much of a chance that he'd miss on any deep throw because of the wind to even try.

Two weeks in a row without a turnover is a step in the right direction. He needs to continue that trend.
He had something like 35 turnovers in his first
20 starts, so he needs to continue the recent trend.

In comment 15043741 Zeke's Alibi said:

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QB in his second offense with a clear prerogative to clean up his decision making. He’s looked much better in that respect the past couple weeks. It takes time and game reps to put this together. Progress isn’t linear. You work on something like this and all of a sudden the bigger plays are gone. Eventually, hopefully he puts it all together and becomes the franchise QB. From what I’ve see he has all the parts, just needs to put it together. More reps and more he’ll play more fluid. We saw it from him last year, but this year the clear learning point of this season is cut out the poor decision making. This is going to cause hesitancy, but I’m encourage what he’s looked like and done recently. I think he really puts it together after the bye.

Thought I bump this. Looks to be one week ahead of schedule. Not sure what people are watching that they didn't see this.

In comment 15043757 NoGainDayne said:

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he looked better last year than this year. Also he's missed throws when he's had time all year. To single it into one game and act like it's the same that him and Brady missed throws isn't even a remotely complete analysis.

And this is why you can keep clinging to your analytics or whatever you do to assess football and I'll keep trusting what my eyes tell me. Missed throws? Go look at what the advanced analytics are when DJ is throwing from a clean pocket. Awfully quiet here today for someone that often spouts repeating diatribes on this site day in and day out.

Pretty much everything I said about DJ was spot on and personally wasn't expecting to see performances like that after the bye which is extremely encouraging. We'll see this more often than not from here on out. What he's done since the second half of the Tampa game shows me he gets it now.