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NFC East race!

ray in arlington : 11/15/2020 4:20 pm
NFC EAST RACE

PHI 3.5-5.5 (DIV 2-2; split with NYG)
Remaining: @CLE, SEA, @GB, NO, @ARI, @DAL, WAS

NYG 3-7 (DIV 3-2)
Remaining: BYE, @CIN, @SEA, ARI, CLE, @BAL, DAL

WAS 2-7 (DIV 2-2; swept by NYG)
Remaining: CIN, @DAL (Thanks.), @PIT, @SF, SEA, CAR, @PHI

DAL 2-7 (DIV 1-2; beat NYG)
Remaining: @MIN, WAS (Thanks.), @BAL, @CIN, SF, PHI, @NYG

The NFC East is 2-18-1 outside the division.

Note that NYG or PHI would have to play a tie game for a NYG-PHI tiebreak to occur.

NYG-DAL tiebreak goes to whoever wins the NYG-DAL game in week 17.

NYG-WAS tiebreak goes to NYG.

3-way ties with PHI require a PHI tie or 2 other ties.
3-way tie with WAS and DAL is undetermined.


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WASHINGTON COULD DO IT  
mattlawson : 11/15/2020 8:07 pm : link
we need to win out!
RE: and what's crazy is that we could easily be 5-5  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 11/15/2020 8:16 pm : link
In comment 15046522 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
or even 6-4 right now. But that's water under the bridge - win out from here!


We lost to the 49ers JV team badly, but we were in and could have won any of the other games we lost. OTOH, we could have lost one or both of the games against Washington.
4-2 in their last 6  
nyjuggernaut2 : 11/15/2020 8:17 pm : link
and the Giants should win the division. Not an easy task by any stretch. Gotta beat Cincy and Dallas, and then go 2-2 against Clev, AZ, Sea and Bal.
We won't be beating Sea, Ari or Balt  
Poktown Pete : 11/15/2020 8:55 pm : link
We're not in their class.
RE: We won't be beating Sea, Ari or Balt  
Matt in SGS : 11/15/2020 9:00 pm : link
In comment 15046760 Poktown Pete said:
Quote:
We're not in their class.


I wouldn't be shocked if they picked off Seattle or Arizona.
Of those 3 games  
cjac : 11/15/2020 9:08 pm : link
Only one where I think we can escape with a win is Baltimore
Basically the gist of it is:  
Leg of Theismann : 11/15/2020 9:33 pm : link
1) we have to beat the Cowboys.

2) Eagles have 7 games left, we have 6 games left. Assuming no ties, we need to finish this stretch with 1 more win then they do (but we have fewer games left unfortunately). I.e. if they go 3-4, we need to go 4-2... if they go 2-5, we need to go 3-3. We need 1 more win than they do in our final stretch but we also have only 6 cracks at it while they have 7.

I would still give the edge to the Eagles to win the division, which sucks because if we’d just held on to that 11 point lead with 6 min to play in the first meeting, we’d be well AHEAD of them right now and comfortably in the driver’s seat. So it goes though, we’re a young team and we needed to learn to finish games. I’m glad it appears we did learn today to some extent. (Joe Judge said: “oh you gon’ learn today!” LMAO).

I think whoever is the favorite to win the division hinges on whether the Eagles best the Browns or not next week. If they lose to the Browns I’d put my money on the Giants given the remaining schedules of each, if they beat the Browns I’d still give the slight edge to the Eagles. The Giants will still have a shot regardless, but that 11/22 date with the Browns is a MUST-WIN for philly just as our 11/29 date with Cinci is a MUST WIN for us. It’s going to be very interesting to see what these standings look like on Dec. 1st.
So, this means no Trevor Lawrence?  
trueblueinpw : 11/15/2020 9:51 pm : link
Or are we still rooting for losses?
RE: Basically the gist of it is:  
SGMen : 11/15/2020 9:53 pm : link
In comment 15046811 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
1) we have to beat the Cowboys.

2) Eagles have 7 games left, we have 6 games left. Assuming no ties, we need to finish this stretch with 1 more win then they do (but we have fewer games left unfortunately). I.e. if they go 3-4, we need to go 4-2... if they go 2-5, we need to go 3-3. We need 1 more win than they do in our final stretch but we also have only 6 cracks at it while they have 7.

I would still give the edge to the Eagles to win the division, which sucks because if we’d just held on to that 11 point lead with 6 min to play in the first meeting, we’d be well AHEAD of them right now and comfortably in the driver’s seat. So it goes though, we’re a young team and we needed to learn to finish games. I’m glad it appears we did learn today to some extent. (Joe Judge said: “oh you gon’ learn today!” LMAO).

I think whoever is the favorite to win the division hinges on whether the Eagles best the Browns or not next week. If they lose to the Browns I’d put my money on the Giants given the remaining schedules of each, if they beat the Browns I’d still give the slight edge to the Eagles. The Giants will still have a shot regardless, but that 11/22 date with the Browns is a MUST-WIN for philly just as our 11/29 date with Cinci is a MUST WIN for us. It’s going to be very interesting to see what these standings look like on Dec. 1st.
You summed it up well. I think what we need to do is just WIN vs Cincy and stay healthy doing it.

Our run game has been solid since Tampa Bay game. I see Jones improving a bit. The key is how effective can we be on defense without a true pass rush threat.

The fact that this team is young & coming together later in the season is very, very encouraging. Lets hope we have a return of injured like McKinney, Ximines aftr th bye week and we take off.
RE: RE: We won't be beating Sea, Ari or Balt  
JohnnyFlowers : 11/15/2020 10:22 pm : link
In comment 15046763 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 15046760 Poktown Pete said:


Quote:


We're not in their class.



I wouldn't be shocked if they picked off Seattle or Arizona.


and we have Arizona at home. Far trip for them so maybe we get a slight advantage.
My prediction  
Reale01 : 11/15/2020 10:26 pm : link
I said in a prior thread that I believe it will be Philly at 6-9-1 and the Giants at 6-10. The comment above summed up the reasoning. Still glad for meaningful football and routing for our Jints.
have to back up  
MookGiants : 11/15/2020 10:36 pm : link
this win with a win in Cincy. Cincy played like shit today but they've played pretty well at home. Eagles are going to be underdogs in their next 5 games I think
We have to beat Dallas and Cincy  
AcesUp : 11/15/2020 10:42 pm : link
and upset a team that will probably be a TD favorite. It's possible.
6-10 wins the East  
5BowlsSoon : 11/15/2020 10:43 pm : link
I think it is very possible we go 6-10 and Eagles go 5.5-10.5

RE: and what's crazy is that we could easily be 5-5  
jnoble : 11/15/2020 11:21 pm : link
In comment 15046522 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
or even 6-4 right now. But that's water under the bridge - win out from here!


I know. They let three or four very winnable games that were 99% in the bag somehow slip through their fingers.
Eagles implosion  
Cstoff10 : 11/15/2020 11:22 pm : link
don't underestimate the possibility of Philly only winning 1 or 2 more games and going into collapse mode. They don't look good. The Giants were forcing them to make penalties and really controlled the line of scrimmage. They look bad and our pass rush and blitz packages and schemes were really a problem for Philly.
RE: Eagles implosion  
jnoble : 11/15/2020 11:24 pm : link
In comment 15046897 Cstoff10 said:
Quote:
don't underestimate the possibility of Philly only winning 1 or 2 more games and going into collapse mode. They don't look good. The Giants were forcing them to make penalties and really controlled the line of scrimmage. They look bad and our pass rush and blitz packages and schemes were really a problem for Philly.


Wentz makes a lot of dopey risky decisions
Dallas clearly should be favored  
5BowlsSoon : 11/15/2020 11:42 pm : link
Look at that schedule....only one team over .500. If they get some key players back from injury, they could go on a run and make it a 3 team race. I’m not counting them out....

Dallas plays...

Minn (3-5)
Cinci (2-6-1)
Wash (2-7)
Baltimore (6-3)
SF (4-6)
Philly (3-5-1)
Giants (3-7)
Remaining schedules  
ray in arlington : 11/15/2020 11:47 pm : link
PHI 36-27
NYG 28-25-1
WAS 30-35-2
DAL 24-39-2

RE: RE: Eagles implosion  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/16/2020 12:43 am : link
In comment 15046901 jnoble said:
Quote:
In comment 15046897 Cstoff10 said:


Quote:


don't underestimate the possibility of Philly only winning 1 or 2 more games and going into collapse mode. They don't look good. The Giants were forcing them to make penalties and really controlled the line of scrimmage. They look bad and our pass rush and blitz packages and schemes were really a problem for Philly.



Wentz makes a lot of dopey risky decisions


He has. He didn't today. We still beat them by 10 on the back of really undisciplined penalites. Pederson is the most overrated coach of all time. Go look at their offense in their superbowl year and look at the Eagles/Colts offense in 2020. Tell me who was the brain of the operation there.
RE: RE: We won't be beating Sea, Ari or Balt  
Milton : 11/16/2020 12:47 am : link
In comment 15046763 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 15046760 Poktown Pete said:


Quote:


We're not in their class.



I wouldn't be shocked if they picked off Seattle or Arizona.
Meanwhile Baltimore just lost to New England who barely beat the Jets the week before.
I’m gonna call it  
Azul Grande : 11/16/2020 12:52 am : link
This division is between the giants and the eagles.

Which means simply we must lose 2 fewer games than the eagles in our remaining 6 and their remaining 7 games of the season.

That’s actually quite a bit of ground with relatively few games left... but their schedule definitely puts it in play.
RE: RE: RE: We won't be beating Sea, Ari or Balt  
Poktown Pete : 11/16/2020 6:44 am : link
In comment 15046935 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 15046763 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


In comment 15046760 Poktown Pete said:


Quote:


We're not in their class.



I wouldn't be shocked if they picked off Seattle or Arizona.

Meanwhile Baltimore just lost to New England who barely beat the Jets the week before.

I don't want to play the role of the antagonist as I bleed blue, but to predict wins against Balt, Arizona or Seattle at this point is literally believing in Santa Claus.
Race? C’mon...  
Giant John : 11/16/2020 7:54 am : link
More like a turtle walk.
Whoever wind the division will pay a heft price  
UberAlias : 11/16/2020 8:23 am : link
in terms of draft position, in every round.
RE: Whoever wind the division will pay a heft price  
KDavies : 11/16/2020 8:55 am : link
In comment 15047023 UberAlias said:
Quote:
in terms of draft position, in every round.


Who cares.
The NFC East is 2-18-1  
chick310 : 11/16/2020 9:00 am : link
outside of the division.

Bodes well for the playoffs!
RE: If Philly beats Cleveland  
chick310 : 11/16/2020 9:03 am : link
In comment 15046301 BH28 said:
Quote:
I think we would need to pick up 4 wins to get to 7-9. I can't see Philly losing to Washington or Dallas. Go browns!


Wash always plays Philly tough.

Though I think you are right, it will need to be 7 wins.
The division will all come down to non-common opponents  
stoneman : 11/16/2020 9:10 am : link
We both play CLV/SEA/AZ/DAL, so the NYG cannot come out of these 4 games lesser than PHL, otherwise we're out. We only have to match PHLs wins and we would be in pretty good shape.

That leaves the non-common opponents (CIN/BAL for NYG) and (GB/NO/Wash for PHL) that would give the edge to NYG as we have to win one less game as well as lesser opponents IMO.

Doable, but not an easy task as we still have to make up 2 wins in 6 games. Forget the 2nd wildcard.
RE: RE: RE: RE: We won't be beating Sea, Ari or Balt  
Ron Johnson : 11/16/2020 9:11 am : link
In comment 15046961 Poktown Pete said:
Quote:
In comment 15046935 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 15046763 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


In comment 15046760 Poktown Pete said:


Quote:


We're not in their class.



I wouldn't be shocked if they picked off Seattle or Arizona.

Meanwhile Baltimore just lost to New England who barely beat the Jets the week before.


I don't want to play the role of the antagonist as I bleed blue, but to predict wins against Balt, Arizona or Seattle at this point is literally believing in Santa Claus.

Saying it's possible isn't predicting wins
RE: The division will all come down to non-common opponents  
stoneman : 11/16/2020 9:16 am : link
In comment 15047102 stoneman said:
Quote:
We both play CLV/SEA/AZ/DAL, so the NYG cannot come out of these 4 games lesser than PHL, otherwise we're out. We only have to match PHLs wins and we would be in pretty good shape.

That leaves the non-common opponents (CIN/BAL for NYG) and (GB/NO/Wash for PHL) that would give the edge to NYG as we have to win one less game as well as lesser opponents IMO.

Doable, but not an easy task as we still have to make up 2 wins in 6 games. Forget the 2nd wildcard.


In fact, I think we will have to win one more game than PHL out of our common opponents (CLV/SEA/AZ/Dal) IMO.
Eagles  
ryanmkeane : 11/16/2020 9:26 am : link
next 4 are really tough. Would be shocked if they went 2-2. 1-3 or 0-4 is extremely possible.
We really have to hope Breez is OK  
stoneman : 11/16/2020 9:37 am : link
He has 4 weeks to get healthy. The PHL/NO game will be a big game - for US :).
I see  
HoodieGelo : 11/16/2020 9:45 am : link
4 competitive games and possible wins. Seattle and Baltimore are the only two I can see a tough time winning. I would be absolutely pumped if we can finish 7-9.
RE: RE: Whoever wind the division will pay a heft price  
UberAlias : 11/16/2020 9:50 am : link
In comment 15047064 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15047023 UberAlias said:


Quote:


in terms of draft position, in every round.



Who cares.
Um, plenty of people. I do. Others as well, I'm sure.
RE: RE: RE: Whoever wind the division will pay a heft price  
KDavies : 11/16/2020 9:54 am : link
In comment 15047191 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 15047064 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 15047023 UberAlias said:


Quote:


in terms of draft position, in every round.



Who cares.

Um, plenty of people. I do. Others as well, I'm sure.


So, you would rather have a higher draft position than make the playoffs? That makes no sense whatsoever.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Whoever wind the division will pay a heft price  
UberAlias : 11/16/2020 10:05 am : link
In comment 15047196 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15047191 UberAlias said:


Quote:


In comment 15047064 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 15047023 UberAlias said:


Quote:


in terms of draft position, in every round.



Who cares.

Um, plenty of people. I do. Others as well, I'm sure.



So, you would rather have a higher draft position than make the playoffs? That makes no sense whatsoever.
It makes no sense whatsoever to someone lacking a the long term perspective. If we make the playoffs, it's not because this is a playoff caliber team, it's because the division is utter horseshit. The stat in the OP you must have missed is that the NFC East is 2-18-1 outside the division. The team is playing well right now because we are very well coached. Outside of our shitty division we have not won a game because we don't have the horses. Guys like Bradburry and Martinez are playing very well and are among our best players, but they are not league-wide talents. What is holding this team back from ultimate prize is talent. Period. That prize isn't coming this year. Never was. If you can;t understand that someone would hold a long term view opposed to celebrating a playoff gift that comes with a losing record then I'm not sure what to tell you. I have higher aspirations, not sure what else to say.
well, therein lies the difference of opinion  
KDavies : 11/16/2020 10:14 am : link
I believe it is in the Giants long-term interest to start winning. I believe it is in the Giants long-term interest to show that they have a good head coach, good OL, a QB, and a decent defense, and that they can start winning a few games.

Whether a 5-11, or 6-10, or 7-9 finish results in a 3rd place finish or a playoff appearance is immaterial. But I don't get the loser mentality to keep rooting for high draft picks as if there is some magical player that will cure the Giants as they continue putting up 2-14 seasons.

Draft position is not a guarantee of getting better players. Ravens drafted Lamar Jackson in the late first, whereas Rosen was drafted in the top 10.

Just last year, the Raiders drafted Ruggs 12th. Lamb at 17, Jefferson at 22, and Claypool at 49 are looking a lot better.

The Giants winning takes QB off the board, and Sewell. Winning likely means they are set at QB and OL, and they can get a WR, edge or CB in the draft. And if they have the 16th pick and grab a Devonta Smith instead of a Chase, who's to say Smith doesn't turn out better?
It is a difference of opinion  
UberAlias : 11/16/2020 10:32 am : link
I'm not claiming there is no merit to rooting to make the playoffs or demanding that fans have to view it as I do. You are correct, there is no guarantee that selecting earlier will mean we will get a better player. But it does guarantee that we have more options. And not just in the first round --in every round of the draft. And why we are on the subject of no guarantees, does making the playoffs guarantee anything? Last time we made the playoffs, 2016, there were many who came in the following year with a lot of optimism. There were also some who felt the playoffs were a bit of a mirage where we had health and a lot of other things come together giving appearances we were better off than we really were. What exactly did that playoff birth "guarantee" us?

I have been consistent all along. To me this year was never about wins and losses. I'm not going to change that now just because the rest of the division has crapped out. Playoffs with a losing record doesn't do it for me. Sorry. I get that it does for you. I'm not telling you your opinion is wrong. Don't tell me that mine is either.
RE: It is a difference of opinion  
KDavies : 11/16/2020 10:44 am : link
In comment 15047292 UberAlias said:
Quote:
I'm not claiming there is no merit to rooting to make the playoffs or demanding that fans have to view it as I do. You are correct, there is no guarantee that selecting earlier will mean we will get a better player. But it does guarantee that we have more options. And not just in the first round --in every round of the draft. And why we are on the subject of no guarantees, does making the playoffs guarantee anything? Last time we made the playoffs, 2016, there were many who came in the following year with a lot of optimism. There were also some who felt the playoffs were a bit of a mirage where we had health and a lot of other things come together giving appearances we were better off than we really were. What exactly did that playoff birth "guarantee" us?

I have been consistent all along. To me this year was never about wins and losses. I'm not going to change that now just because the rest of the division has crapped out. Playoffs with a losing record doesn't do it for me. Sorry. I get that it does for you. I'm not telling you your opinion is wrong. Don't tell me that mine is either.


Agreed the season is not about wins and losses. But seeing 6 wins or so this season would be a natural reflection of the Giants playing better, which is a natural result of a lot of things the Giants need coming together to come together.

The fact that it is dumb luck that the division is historically terrible, and the Giants could make the playoffs out of it is irrelvant in what I want to see.
RE: Of those 3 games  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/16/2020 11:03 am : link
In comment 15046776 cjac said:
Quote:
Only one where I think we can escape with a win is Baltimore


Arizona is a terrible match up for us defensively. Exactly the type of offense that is going to shred us. Only chance we have is to contol game offensively on ground keeping their offense off the field.
6 wins will probably win the Division this year  
eclipz928 : 11/16/2020 11:46 am : link
and I don't see the Giants getting there. Beating the Eagles is always exciting, but they're a bad football team as well and any chance of taking the division was lost when they blew the first game against them.
7 wins is probably the number.  
AnnapolisMike : 11/16/2020 1:24 pm : link
Someone is going to get hot...and honestly would anyone here be terribly surprised if it's the Giants who are that hot team with confidence moving forward? Seattle 1-3 last 4 games, Ravens 2-2 and are banged up. Gotta step up and beat the Bengals.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Whoever wind the division will pay a heft price  
BillKo : 11/16/2020 1:30 pm : link
In comment 15047196 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15047191 UberAlias said:


Quote:


In comment 15047064 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 15047023 UberAlias said:


Quote:


in terms of draft position, in every round.



Who cares.

Um, plenty of people. I do. Others as well, I'm sure.



So, you would rather have a higher draft position than make the playoffs? That makes no sense whatsoever.


I root to win every week. I can't say I ever wanted the Giants to lose... HOWEVER....

It seems wasteful to take an NFL divisional title home with either 5-6 wins, and cost you valuable draft slots for a team that is still a few year away IMO.

Win the division with 7-8, ok....then you've EARNED IT (well sorta).

Let's see how it plays out. If they do win 7 games, they will have navigated thru a tough schedule and not only will have earned it but probably gained some valuable experience, in particular the QB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Whoever wind the division will pay a heft price  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/16/2020 1:36 pm : link
In comment 15047806 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 15047196 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 15047191 UberAlias said:


Quote:


In comment 15047064 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 15047023 UberAlias said:


Quote:


in terms of draft position, in every round.



Who cares.

Um, plenty of people. I do. Others as well, I'm sure.



So, you would rather have a higher draft position than make the playoffs? That makes no sense whatsoever.



I root to win every week. I can't say I ever wanted the Giants to lose... HOWEVER....

It seems wasteful to take an NFL divisional title home with either 5-6 wins, and cost you valuable draft slots for a team that is still a few year away IMO.

Win the division with 7-8, ok....then you've EARNED IT (well sorta).

Let's see how it plays out. If they do win 7 games, they will have navigated thru a tough schedule and not only will have earned it but probably gained some valuable experience, in particular the QB.



I'm the opposite, once they got out of blue chip range, I want them to go to the playoffs. I want the division title too. Why? I want them to experience that. Might be a paltry record but quite a turnaround for I think one of the least talented teams in the country.

I also don't think there is a big difference between pick 10 and pick 20. At this point you have the same % of selecting a good player.
Just eyeballing GBN's top 100  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/16/2020 1:39 pm : link
#10 is CB Patrick Surtain

#19 is Shaun Wade CB
#20 is Kwity Paye DE

All 3 would help the Giants immensely.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Whoever wind the division will pay a heft price  
BillKo : 11/16/2020 1:44 pm : link
In comment 15047827 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
In comment 15047806 BillKo said:


Quote:


In comment 15047196 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 15047191 UberAlias said:


Quote:


In comment 15047064 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 15047023 UberAlias said:


Quote:


in terms of draft position, in every round.



Who cares.

Um, plenty of people. I do. Others as well, I'm sure.



So, you would rather have a higher draft position than make the playoffs? That makes no sense whatsoever.



I root to win every week. I can't say I ever wanted the Giants to lose... HOWEVER....

It seems wasteful to take an NFL divisional title home with either 5-6 wins, and cost you valuable draft slots for a team that is still a few year away IMO.

Win the division with 7-8, ok....then you've EARNED IT (well sorta).

Let's see how it plays out. If they do win 7 games, they will have navigated thru a tough schedule and not only will have earned it but probably gained some valuable experience, in particular the QB.




I'm the opposite, once they got out of blue chip range, I want them to go to the playoffs. I want the division title too. Why? I want them to experience that. Might be a paltry record but quite a turnaround for I think one of the least talented teams in the country.

I also don't think there is a big difference between pick 10 and pick 20. At this point you have the same % of selecting a good player.


Good points.

Why do I feel like five wins - FIVE WINS - is going to do it lol...............
Coaches always go 1 game at a time (coachspeak)  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/16/2020 1:48 pm : link
but lets look at the 2nd half of the season. What will their record be the last 8 games? Might be a better indicator of how the team is playing. If they go 5-3, would that speak to you?
Grrrr  
Thegratefulhead : 11/16/2020 1:57 pm : link
I always want in the tournament. ANYTHING can happen. We know this.

Does any team want to play a young and hungry team with some momentum in the playoffs, that doesn't know it is suppose to lose, that has a crater on its' shoulder?

No...they do not.

That team is playing with house money.

free and loose baaaay Beeeee.
RE: Coaches always go 1 game at a time (coachspeak)  
BillKo : 11/16/2020 1:57 pm : link
In comment 15047860 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
but lets look at the 2nd half of the season. What will their record be the last 8 games? Might be a better indicator of how the team is playing. If they go 5-3, would that speak to you?


If they go 5-3, that means 6 wins.....I figured them to be a 6-7 win team (I am always optimistic).

It's hard to deny, right now, they are the best trending team in the division.

Hate we have the bye week to be honest.............
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