NFC East race!

A thread without draft position in November!

Tuesday. Probably 4-1 or so to win East, but I firmly believe we win it and what type of fan would I be if I sold that ticket.

takes this division

Of the 4 teams. They are primed here to turn the corner, win the division and carry momentum into 2021.

This is a huge stretch for a young head coach and a young team.

Brutal

The New York Giants have come back to the playoff race!!!!

if you had told me a month ago that the Giants would be in the playoff race at Thanksgiving, I'd have said you were nuts. Right now they are playing the best football in the NFC East. Screw it, let's win this thing.

In comment 15046276 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

if you had told me a month ago that the Giants would be in the playoff race at Thanksgiving, I'd have said you were nuts. Right now they are playing the best football in the NFC East. Screw it, let's win this thing.

Amen brother 🙏

Possibly even 4 of 6 to win this division.

I think we would need to pick up 4 wins to get to 7-9. I can't see Philly losing to Washington or Dallas. Go browns!

Let’s gooo

In comment 15046169 jpkmets said:

Quote:

A thread without draft position in November!

And at 3-7 too. LOL I'll take it. It's good to actually have meaningful games in November.

Of course its 2020 so its with a losing record, and they'll likely shut the league down if we should actually clinch the division but still...meaningful football in November...brings a tear to your eye...

and twice on Sunday. Well, once is enough today. Beating the Eagles finally felt so good!!

Why not?

or even 6-4 right now. But that's water under the bridge - win out from here!

In comment 15046179 spike said:

Quote:

takes this division

Agree, I see eagles losing the next 4 games(although browns are still a toss up without Odell) but have a high chance beating Cowboys and Washington their last 2 games making them 5-10-1

Giants will have to win a solid 3 games, Bengals, Browns and Cowboys being the easiest with hopes of 1 more vs Seatle, Ravens and Cardinals which will be really hard.

Hell even the 3 wins vs Browns, Bengals and Cowboys is being highly optimistic

than Philly and Wash. Dallas is about the same as us, in my estimation. Crazy, but today's win, even at 3-7, really puts us in a good position. A win against Cincy after the bye would obviously be huge.

1) Crazy, but if we won even one of those close games, we'd be in first. 2 or 3 and we would be firmly in control. But, a 2 game winning streak got us in the hunt, at the very least.

2) That bye is both a blessing and killer. It's great to get McKinney and Ximines more reps and perhaps Holmes rep at CB2. Also a bonus for Hernandez and Lemieux to settle in with one of them playing the right side and maybe this gets Peart into the starting lineup. On the flipside, after consecutive wins, I'm sure they'd love to get right back out there.

All I wanted going into this season was to have meaningful games after Thanksgiving and the arrow pointing up as a franchise.

Regardless of how we got here, I got what I wanted.

As maddening as this season has been at times, it’s definitely been entertaining. Feels so fucking good to finally beat the Eagles.

not to have a losing record in the division.

I'm looking at Cincy and Cleveland for us. We have to win both of those games to have any shot. They are both winnable, but Cleveland is a tougher one. 5 wins might win the division; it looks almost certain that 6 would.

we need to win out!

In comment 15046522 Del Shofner said:

Quote:

or even 6-4 right now. But that's water under the bridge - win out from here!

We lost to the 49ers JV team badly, but we were in and could have won any of the other games we lost. OTOH, we could have lost one or both of the games against Washington.

and the Giants should win the division. Not an easy task by any stretch. Gotta beat Cincy and Dallas, and then go 2-2 against Clev, AZ, Sea and Bal.

We're not in their class.

In comment 15046760 Poktown Pete said:

Quote:

We're not in their class.

I wouldn't be shocked if they picked off Seattle or Arizona.

Only one where I think we can escape with a win is Baltimore

1) we have to beat the Cowboys.

2) Eagles have 7 games left, we have 6 games left. Assuming no ties, we need to finish this stretch with 1 more win then they do (but we have fewer games left unfortunately). I.e. if they go 3-4, we need to go 4-2... if they go 2-5, we need to go 3-3. We need 1 more win than they do in our final stretch but we also have only 6 cracks at it while they have 7.

I would still give the edge to the Eagles to win the division, which sucks because if we’d just held on to that 11 point lead with 6 min to play in the first meeting, we’d be well AHEAD of them right now and comfortably in the driver’s seat. So it goes though, we’re a young team and we needed to learn to finish games. I’m glad it appears we did learn today to some extent. (Joe Judge said: “oh you gon’ learn today!” LMAO).

I think whoever is the favorite to win the division hinges on whether the Eagles best the Browns or not next week. If they lose to the Browns I’d put my money on the Giants given the remaining schedules of each, if they beat the Browns I’d still give the slight edge to the Eagles. The Giants will still have a shot regardless, but that 11/22 date with the Browns is a MUST-WIN for philly just as our 11/29 date with Cinci is a MUST WIN for us. It’s going to be very interesting to see what these standings look like on Dec. 1st.

Or are we still rooting for losses?

In comment 15046811 Leg of Theismann said:

Quote:

1) we have to beat the Cowboys. 2) Eagles have 7 games left, we have 6 games left. Assuming no ties, we need to finish this stretch with 1 more win then they do (but we have fewer games left unfortunately). I.e. if they go 3-4, we need to go 4-2... if they go 2-5, we need to go 3-3. We need 1 more win than they do in our final stretch but we also have only 6 cracks at it while they have 7. I would still give the edge to the Eagles to win the division, which sucks because if we’d just held on to that 11 point lead with 6 min to play in the first meeting, we’d be well AHEAD of them right now and comfortably in the driver’s seat. So it goes though, we’re a young team and we needed to learn to finish games. I’m glad it appears we did learn today to some extent. (Joe Judge said: “oh you gon’ learn today!” LMAO). I think whoever is the favorite to win the division hinges on whether the Eagles best the Browns or not next week. If they lose to the Browns I’d put my money on the Giants given the remaining schedules of each, if they beat the Browns I’d still give the slight edge to the Eagles. The Giants will still have a shot regardless, but that 11/22 date with the Browns is a MUST-WIN for philly just as our 11/29 date with Cinci is a MUST WIN for us. It’s going to be very interesting to see what these standings look like on Dec. 1st.

You summed it up well. I think what we need to do is just WIN vs Cincy and stay healthy doing it.

Our run game has been solid since Tampa Bay game. I see Jones improving a bit. The key is how effective can we be on defense without a true pass rush threat.

The fact that this team is young & coming together later in the season is very, very encouraging. Lets hope we have a return of injured like McKinney, Ximines aftr th bye week and we take off.

In comment 15046763 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

In comment 15046760 Poktown Pete said: Quote: We're not in their class. I wouldn't be shocked if they picked off Seattle or Arizona.

and we have Arizona at home. Far trip for them so maybe we get a slight advantage.

I said in a prior thread that I believe it will be Philly at 6-9-1 and the Giants at 6-10. The comment above summed up the reasoning. Still glad for meaningful football and routing for our Jints.

this win with a win in Cincy. Cincy played like shit today but they've played pretty well at home. Eagles are going to be underdogs in their next 5 games I think

and upset a team that will probably be a TD favorite. It's possible.

I think it is very possible we go 6-10 and Eagles go 5.5-10.5

In comment 15046522 Del Shofner said:

Quote:

or even 6-4 right now. But that's water under the bridge - win out from here!

I know. They let three or four very winnable games that were 99% in the bag somehow slip through their fingers.

don't underestimate the possibility of Philly only winning 1 or 2 more games and going into collapse mode. They don't look good. The Giants were forcing them to make penalties and really controlled the line of scrimmage. They look bad and our pass rush and blitz packages and schemes were really a problem for Philly.

In comment 15046897 Cstoff10 said:

Quote:

don't underestimate the possibility of Philly only winning 1 or 2 more games and going into collapse mode. They don't look good. The Giants were forcing them to make penalties and really controlled the line of scrimmage. They look bad and our pass rush and blitz packages and schemes were really a problem for Philly.

Wentz makes a lot of dopey risky decisions

Look at that schedule....only one team over .500. If they get some key players back from injury, they could go on a run and make it a 3 team race. I’m not counting them out....

Dallas plays...

Minn (3-5)
Cinci (2-6-1)
Wash (2-7)
Baltimore (6-3)
SF (4-6)
Philly (3-5-1)
Giants (3-7)

PHI 36-27
NYG 28-25-1
WAS 30-35-2
DAL 24-39-2

In comment 15046901 jnoble said:

Quote:

In comment 15046897 Cstoff10 said: Quote: don't underestimate the possibility of Philly only winning 1 or 2 more games and going into collapse mode. They don't look good. The Giants were forcing them to make penalties and really controlled the line of scrimmage. They look bad and our pass rush and blitz packages and schemes were really a problem for Philly. Wentz makes a lot of dopey risky decisions

He has. He didn't today. We still beat them by 10 on the back of really undisciplined penalites. Pederson is the most overrated coach of all time. Go look at their offense in their superbowl year and look at the Eagles/Colts offense in 2020. Tell me who was the brain of the operation there.

In comment 15046763 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

In comment 15046760 Poktown Pete said: Quote: We're not in their class. I wouldn't be shocked if they picked off Seattle or Arizona.

Meanwhile Baltimore just lost to New England who barely beat the Jets the week before.

This division is between the giants and the eagles.

Which means simply we must lose 2 fewer games than the eagles in our remaining 6 and their remaining 7 games of the season.

That’s actually quite a bit of ground with relatively few games left... but their schedule definitely puts it in play.

In comment 15046935 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 15046763 Matt in SGS said: Quote: In comment 15046760 Poktown Pete said: Quote: We're not in their class. I wouldn't be shocked if they picked off Seattle or Arizona. Meanwhile Baltimore just lost to New England who barely beat the Jets the week before.

I don't want to play the role of the antagonist as I bleed blue, but to predict wins against Balt, Arizona or Seattle at this point is literally believing in Santa Claus.

More like a turtle walk.

in terms of draft position, in every round.

In comment 15047023 UberAlias said:

Quote:

in terms of draft position, in every round.

Who cares.

outside of the division.

Bodes well for the playoffs!

In comment 15046301 BH28 said:

Quote:

I think we would need to pick up 4 wins to get to 7-9. I can't see Philly losing to Washington or Dallas. Go browns!

Wash always plays Philly tough.

Though I think you are right, it will need to be 7 wins.

We both play CLV/SEA/AZ/DAL, so the NYG cannot come out of these 4 games lesser than PHL, otherwise we're out. We only have to match PHLs wins and we would be in pretty good shape.

That leaves the non-common opponents (CIN/BAL for NYG) and (GB/NO/Wash for PHL) that would give the edge to NYG as we have to win one less game as well as lesser opponents IMO.

Doable, but not an easy task as we still have to make up 2 wins in 6 games. Forget the 2nd wildcard.

In comment 15046961 Poktown Pete said:

Quote:

In comment 15046935 Milton said: Quote: In comment 15046763 Matt in SGS said: Quote: In comment 15046760 Poktown Pete said: Quote: We're not in their class. I wouldn't be shocked if they picked off Seattle or Arizona. Meanwhile Baltimore just lost to New England who barely beat the Jets the week before. I don't want to play the role of the antagonist as I bleed blue, but to predict wins against Balt, Arizona or Seattle at this point is literally believing in Santa Claus.

Saying it's possible isn't predicting wins

In comment 15047102 stoneman said:

Quote:

We both play CLV/SEA/AZ/DAL, so the NYG cannot come out of these 4 games lesser than PHL, otherwise we're out. We only have to match PHLs wins and we would be in pretty good shape. That leaves the non-common opponents (CIN/BAL for NYG) and (GB/NO/Wash for PHL) that would give the edge to NYG as we have to win one less game as well as lesser opponents IMO. Doable, but not an easy task as we still have to make up 2 wins in 6 games. Forget the 2nd wildcard.

In fact, I think we will have to win one more game than PHL out of our common opponents (CLV/SEA/AZ/Dal) IMO.

next 4 are really tough. Would be shocked if they went 2-2. 1-3 or 0-4 is extremely possible.

He has 4 weeks to get healthy. The PHL/NO game will be a big game - for US :).

4 competitive games and possible wins. Seattle and Baltimore are the only two I can see a tough time winning. I would be absolutely pumped if we can finish 7-9.

In comment 15047064 KDavies said:

Quote:

In comment 15047023 UberAlias said: Quote: in terms of draft position, in every round. Who cares.

Um, plenty of people. I do. Others as well, I'm sure.

In comment 15047191 UberAlias said:

Quote:

In comment 15047064 KDavies said: Quote: In comment 15047023 UberAlias said: Quote: in terms of draft position, in every round. Who cares. Um, plenty of people. I do. Others as well, I'm sure.

So, you would rather have a higher draft position than make the playoffs? That makes no sense whatsoever.

In comment 15047196 KDavies said:

Quote:

In comment 15047191 UberAlias said: Quote: In comment 15047064 KDavies said: Quote: In comment 15047023 UberAlias said: Quote: in terms of draft position, in every round. Who cares. Um, plenty of people. I do. Others as well, I'm sure. So, you would rather have a higher draft position than make the playoffs? That makes no sense whatsoever.

It makes no sense whatsoever to someone lacking a the long term perspective. If we make the playoffs, it's not because this is a playoff caliber team, it's because the division is utter horseshit. The stat in the OP you must have missed is that the NFC East is 2-18-1 outside the division. The team is playing well right now because we are very well coached. Outside of our shitty division we have not won a game because we don't have the horses. Guys like Bradburry and Martinez are playing very well and are among our best players, but they are not league-wide talents. What is holding this team back from ultimate prize is talent. Period. That prize isn't coming this year. Never was. If you can;t understand that someone would hold a long term view opposed to celebrating a playoff gift that comes with a losing record then I'm not sure what to tell you. I have higher aspirations, not sure what else to say.

I believe it is in the Giants long-term interest to start winning. I believe it is in the Giants long-term interest to show that they have a good head coach, good OL, a QB, and a decent defense, and that they can start winning a few games.

Whether a 5-11, or 6-10, or 7-9 finish results in a 3rd place finish or a playoff appearance is immaterial. But I don't get the loser mentality to keep rooting for high draft picks as if there is some magical player that will cure the Giants as they continue putting up 2-14 seasons.

Draft position is not a guarantee of getting better players. Ravens drafted Lamar Jackson in the late first, whereas Rosen was drafted in the top 10.

Just last year, the Raiders drafted Ruggs 12th. Lamb at 17, Jefferson at 22, and Claypool at 49 are looking a lot better.

The Giants winning takes QB off the board, and Sewell. Winning likely means they are set at QB and OL, and they can get a WR, edge or CB in the draft. And if they have the 16th pick and grab a Devonta Smith instead of a Chase, who's to say Smith doesn't turn out better?

I'm not claiming there is no merit to rooting to make the playoffs or demanding that fans have to view it as I do. You are correct, there is no guarantee that selecting earlier will mean we will get a better player. But it does guarantee that we have more options. And not just in the first round --in every round of the draft. And why we are on the subject of no guarantees, does making the playoffs guarantee anything? Last time we made the playoffs, 2016, there were many who came in the following year with a lot of optimism. There were also some who felt the playoffs were a bit of a mirage where we had health and a lot of other things come together giving appearances we were better off than we really were. What exactly did that playoff birth "guarantee" us?

I have been consistent all along. To me this year was never about wins and losses. I'm not going to change that now just because the rest of the division has crapped out. Playoffs with a losing record doesn't do it for me. Sorry. I get that it does for you. I'm not telling you your opinion is wrong. Don't tell me that mine is either.

In comment 15047292 UberAlias said:

Quote:

I'm not claiming there is no merit to rooting to make the playoffs or demanding that fans have to view it as I do. You are correct, there is no guarantee that selecting earlier will mean we will get a better player. But it does guarantee that we have more options. And not just in the first round --in every round of the draft. And why we are on the subject of no guarantees, does making the playoffs guarantee anything? Last time we made the playoffs, 2016, there were many who came in the following year with a lot of optimism. There were also some who felt the playoffs were a bit of a mirage where we had health and a lot of other things come together giving appearances we were better off than we really were. What exactly did that playoff birth "guarantee" us? I have been consistent all along. To me this year was never about wins and losses. I'm not going to change that now just because the rest of the division has crapped out. Playoffs with a losing record doesn't do it for me. Sorry. I get that it does for you. I'm not telling you your opinion is wrong. Don't tell me that mine is either.

Agreed the season is not about wins and losses. But seeing 6 wins or so this season would be a natural reflection of the Giants playing better, which is a natural result of a lot of things the Giants need coming together to come together.

The fact that it is dumb luck that the division is historically terrible, and the Giants could make the playoffs out of it is irrelvant in what I want to see.

In comment 15046776 cjac said:

Quote:

Only one where I think we can escape with a win is Baltimore

Arizona is a terrible match up for us defensively. Exactly the type of offense that is going to shred us. Only chance we have is to contol game offensively on ground keeping their offense off the field.

and I don't see the Giants getting there. Beating the Eagles is always exciting, but they're a bad football team as well and any chance of taking the division was lost when they blew the first game against them.

Someone is going to get hot...and honestly would anyone here be terribly surprised if it's the Giants who are that hot team with confidence moving forward? Seattle 1-3 last 4 games, Ravens 2-2 and are banged up. Gotta step up and beat the Bengals.

In comment 15047196 KDavies said:

Quote:

In comment 15047191 UberAlias said: Quote: In comment 15047064 KDavies said: Quote: In comment 15047023 UberAlias said: Quote: in terms of draft position, in every round. Who cares. Um, plenty of people. I do. Others as well, I'm sure. So, you would rather have a higher draft position than make the playoffs? That makes no sense whatsoever.

I root to win every week. I can't say I ever wanted the Giants to lose... HOWEVER....

It seems wasteful to take an NFL divisional title home with either 5-6 wins, and cost you valuable draft slots for a team that is still a few year away IMO.

Win the division with 7-8, ok....then you've EARNED IT (well sorta).

Let's see how it plays out. If they do win 7 games, they will have navigated thru a tough schedule and not only will have earned it but probably gained some valuable experience, in particular the QB.

In comment 15047806 BillKo said:

Quote:

In comment 15047196 KDavies said: Quote: In comment 15047191 UberAlias said: Quote: In comment 15047064 KDavies said: Quote: In comment 15047023 UberAlias said: Quote: in terms of draft position, in every round. Who cares. Um, plenty of people. I do. Others as well, I'm sure. So, you would rather have a higher draft position than make the playoffs? That makes no sense whatsoever. I root to win every week. I can't say I ever wanted the Giants to lose... HOWEVER.... It seems wasteful to take an NFL divisional title home with either 5-6 wins, and cost you valuable draft slots for a team that is still a few year away IMO. Win the division with 7-8, ok....then you've EARNED IT (well sorta). Let's see how it plays out. If they do win 7 games, they will have navigated thru a tough schedule and not only will have earned it but probably gained some valuable experience, in particular the QB.

I'm the opposite, once they got out of blue chip range, I want them to go to the playoffs. I want the division title too. Why? I want them to experience that. Might be a paltry record but quite a turnaround for I think one of the least talented teams in the country.

I also don't think there is a big difference between pick 10 and pick 20. At this point you have the same % of selecting a good player.

#10 is CB Patrick Surtain

#19 is Shaun Wade CB
#20 is Kwity Paye DE

All 3 would help the Giants immensely.

In comment 15047827 Jim in Forest Hills said:

Quote:

In comment 15047806 BillKo said: Quote: In comment 15047196 KDavies said: Quote: In comment 15047191 UberAlias said: Quote: In comment 15047064 KDavies said: Quote: In comment 15047023 UberAlias said: Quote: in terms of draft position, in every round. Who cares. Um, plenty of people. I do. Others as well, I'm sure. So, you would rather have a higher draft position than make the playoffs? That makes no sense whatsoever. I root to win every week. I can't say I ever wanted the Giants to lose... HOWEVER.... It seems wasteful to take an NFL divisional title home with either 5-6 wins, and cost you valuable draft slots for a team that is still a few year away IMO. Win the division with 7-8, ok....then you've EARNED IT (well sorta). Let's see how it plays out. If they do win 7 games, they will have navigated thru a tough schedule and not only will have earned it but probably gained some valuable experience, in particular the QB. I'm the opposite, once they got out of blue chip range, I want them to go to the playoffs. I want the division title too. Why? I want them to experience that. Might be a paltry record but quite a turnaround for I think one of the least talented teams in the country. I also don't think there is a big difference between pick 10 and pick 20. At this point you have the same % of selecting a good player.

Good points.

Why do I feel like five wins - FIVE WINS - is going to do it lol...............

but lets look at the 2nd half of the season. What will their record be the last 8 games? Might be a better indicator of how the team is playing. If they go 5-3, would that speak to you?

I always want in the tournament. ANYTHING can happen. We know this.

Does any team want to play a young and hungry team with some momentum in the playoffs, that doesn't know it is suppose to lose, that has a crater on its' shoulder?

No...they do not.

That team is playing with house money.

free and loose baaaay Beeeee.

In comment 15047860 Jim in Forest Hills said:

Quote:

but lets look at the 2nd half of the season. What will their record be the last 8 games? Might be a better indicator of how the team is playing. If they go 5-3, would that speak to you?

If they go 5-3, that means 6 wins.....I figured them to be a 6-7 win team (I am always optimistic).

It's hard to deny, right now, they are the best trending team in the division.

Hate we have the bye week to be honest.............