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Why didn't Hernandez start today?

Jay on the Island : 11/15/2020 7:04 pm
Lemieux started at LG once again despite Hernandez being active. I noticed that Hernandez came in late when Zeitler was injured. Was this explained before/during the game?

I apologize if this was mentioned but I missed the pregame shows and the first few plays of the game.
I'm assuming COVID  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/15/2020 7:06 pm : link
returning related? Probably trying to ease him into it.
I haven't heard any explanation. I'm sure the media will ask the  
Ira : 11/15/2020 7:06 pm : link
coaches about it in their interviews, so keep an eye out for that.
I didn't hear it addressed  
Matt M. : 11/15/2020 7:08 pm : link
Personally, I know there is a debate on this, but I think it's because he is better. But, I think Hernandez is a better option than Zeitler at this point. I wonder if the bye gives Zeitler enough time to clear concussion protocol what they will do with him. With the extra week of practice, I would like to see an OL like this for Cincy:
Thomas-Lemieux-Gates-Hernandez-Peart. The only other one I would really be happy with is:
Thomas-Hernandez-Gates-Lemieux-Peart. Gates' gradual improvement each week is really a big boost for next year.
I'm sure he was adversely  
section125 : 11/15/2020 7:08 pm : link
effected by the virus, maybe lost some strength and stamina.
From what I’ve seen, the OL looks more cohesive with Lemieux and I  
Spider56 : 11/15/2020 7:09 pm : link
would leave it as is ... also interesting that when Zeitler got hurt, Lemieux moved to RG and Hernandez went to his normal left side ... I’m guessing Lemieux was practicing as a swing guard earlier in the year.
RE: I'm sure he was adversely  
Matt M. : 11/15/2020 7:10 pm : link
In comment 15046585 section125 said:
Quote:
effected by the virus, maybe lost some strength and stamina.
Plus, cardio/endurance. I had a mild case myself, and it was many weeks before my breathing really felt even close to normal and more weeks before I didn't have to think about it at all. I can't imaging what it's like to be a professional athlete and going through that.
There was a comment  
fanoftheteam : 11/15/2020 7:15 pm : link
In Judges transcript the other day about how the 10 days at home with no football takes a toll to come back from.Especially if he had body aches from corona. I dont know if he was asymptomatic or not.
Lemieux  
Ike#88 : 11/15/2020 7:15 pm : link
is more versatile than Hernandez which is why he moved over. Frankly I think he is better than Hernandez at LG but we will see what the coaches do.
There was a comment  
fanoftheteam : 11/15/2020 7:16 pm : link
In Judges transcript the other day about how the 10 days at home with no football takes a toll to come back from.Especially if he had body aches from corona. I dont know if he was asymptomatic or not.
RE: Lemieux  
Danny Dimes : 11/15/2020 7:44 pm : link
In comment 15046598 Ike#88 said:
Quote:
is more versatile than Hernandez which is why he moved over. Frankly I think he is better than Hernandez at LG but we will see what the coaches do.


Exactly, Giants was running the ball good without Hernandez. Once Zetler got hurt and Hernandez got in they litterly averaged 0 yards in around 6 attempts
RE: Lemieux  
CowboyHaters : 11/15/2020 8:02 pm : link
In comment 15046598 Ike#88 said:
Quote:
is more versatile than Hernandez which is why he moved over. Frankly I think he is better than Hernandez at LG but we will see what the coaches do.


I rather see 66 play and Zeitler is a much better player than Hernandez. Hernandez looked promising as a rookie and he hasn’t gotten any better. I think he has been underwhelming to say the least.
he didn’t play for a while  
UConn4523 : 11/15/2020 8:04 pm : link
and if he was sick at all it’s reasonable to assume he was 100% today from a conditioning standpoint.
It’s nice  
Jolly Blue Giant : 11/15/2020 8:07 pm : link
To have depth!
The coaches will be diplomatic  
mittenedman : 11/15/2020 8:26 pm : link
but ordinarily, when your starting G is available to play, he plays. The fact the Giants kept Lemiuex in tells you they don't want to mess with what's working.

And how can you take either Lemiuex or Zeitler off the field right now. Both guys are playing very well. Hernandez may get "lucky" with Zeitler's concussion.
RE: RE: Lemieux  
Jay on the Island : 11/15/2020 8:27 pm : link
In comment 15046672 CowboyHaters said:
Quote:
In comment 15046598 Ike#88 said:


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is more versatile than Hernandez which is why he moved over. Frankly I think he is better than Hernandez at LG but we will see what the coaches do.



I rather see 66 play and Zeitler is a much better player than Hernandez. Hernandez looked promising as a rookie and he hasn’t gotten any better. I think he has been underwhelming to say the least.

I agree, I would like to see the Giants attempt to trade Hernandez this offseason. I do not think he is worth the money he will require to re-sign. If the Giants can acquire a day two pick for him then I think they should do it.

Let Lemieux remain the starting LG and draft another guard and add a cheaper veteran to compete for the starting RG spot with Kyle Murphy and a draft pick.

I will say this, after Hernandez came in Lemieux did not look  
Matt M. : 11/15/2020 8:28 pm : link
good or comfortable at RG. I hope they take advantage of the bye to play both guys at both positions and proceed with who whichever combination of Hernandez and Lemieux they fell is best. I would not play Zeitler. I would also proceed with Peart as the starter over Fleming.
RE: I will say this, after Hernandez came in Lemieux did not look  
Jay on the Island : 11/15/2020 8:31 pm : link
In comment 15046718 Matt M. said:
Quote:
good or comfortable at RG. I hope they take advantage of the bye to play both guys at both positions and proceed with who whichever combination of Hernandez and Lemieux they fell is best. I would not play Zeitler. I would also proceed with Peart as the starter over Fleming.

Zeitler has been much better the past three games. I understand if Lemieux returns to the bench but the Giants should replace Fleming with Peart now. This would give Peart two weeks of practice as the starting RT.
RE: RE: RE: Lemieux  
Matt M. : 11/15/2020 8:33 pm : link
In comment 15046716 Jay on the Island said:
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In comment 15046672 CowboyHaters said:


Quote:


In comment 15046598 Ike#88 said:


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is more versatile than Hernandez which is why he moved over. Frankly I think he is better than Hernandez at LG but we will see what the coaches do.



I rather see 66 play and Zeitler is a much better player than Hernandez. Hernandez looked promising as a rookie and he hasn’t gotten any better. I think he has been underwhelming to say the least.


I agree, I would like to see the Giants attempt to trade Hernandez this offseason. I do not think he is worth the money he will require to re-sign. If the Giants can acquire a day two pick for him then I think they should do it.

Let Lemieux remain the starting LG and draft another guard and add a cheaper veteran to compete for the starting RG spot with Kyle Murphy and a draft pick.
Personally, I agree with Lemieux remaining at LG. I think he has been the best OG this year and that is his position. I would have taken this as an opportunity for Zeitler and Hernandez to potentially battle. I think Zeitler has been a little better this year, but both have disappointed.

Two reasons, now, I say proceed with Hernandez and Lemieux. One, who knows how Zeitler does with concussion protocol. Two, Zeitler has little to no chance of being on the team next year while Hernandez could very well not only remain but as a starter.

Again, I would hope with 2 weeks to practice, they take it as a time to move Hernandez to RG because I envision Lemieux at LG for a while. But, I'll that much up to the coaches.,
RE: RE: RE: Lemieux  
chopperhatch : 11/15/2020 8:33 pm : link
In comment 15046716 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 15046672 CowboyHaters said:


Quote:


In comment 15046598 Ike#88 said:


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is more versatile than Hernandez which is why he moved over. Frankly I think he is better than Hernandez at LG but we will see what the coaches do.



I rather see 66 play and Zeitler is a much better player than Hernandez. Hernandez looked promising as a rookie and he hasn’t gotten any better. I think he has been underwhelming to say the least.


I agree, I would like to see the Giants attempt to trade Hernandez this offseason. I do not think he is worth the money he will require to re-sign. If the Giants can acquire a day two pick for him then I think they should do it.

Let Lemieux remain the starting LG and draft another guard and add a cheaper veteran to compete for the starting RG spot with Kyle Murphy and a draft pick.


While I disagree that WH will command a high price tag, I agree that trading him while he is viewed as being a solid Guard is npt a bad idea. My biggest problem with him is that whenever he is pulling he is so impossibly slow and stiff that athletic DL that can bend even a little bit, can get under his pads and render him just a pylon. he lacks lateral quickness and is essentially a fire hydrant in the middle. He is much better staying in his position and remaining straight line.

lemieux is more mobile and can bend a bit. But trading him and cutting Zeitler crates quite the whole on the O line.
RE: RE: I will say this, after Hernandez came in Lemieux did not look  
Matt M. : 11/15/2020 8:36 pm : link
In comment 15046723 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 15046718 Matt M. said:


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good or comfortable at RG. I hope they take advantage of the bye to play both guys at both positions and proceed with who whichever combination of Hernandez and Lemieux they fell is best. I would not play Zeitler. I would also proceed with Peart as the starter over Fleming.


Zeitler has been much better the past three games. I understand if Lemieux returns to the bench but the Giants should replace Fleming with Peart now. This would give Peart two weeks of practice as the starting RT.
I would be extremely pissed if Lemieux returns to the bench. He has been the best of the 3, at least while at LG. Starting both Hernandez and Zeitler the rest of the way is bad for both the short term and the long term.

If they do anything with the 3 during the bye and the rest of the way, they should do so with the future in mind. For me that means not only starting Lemieux, but at LG.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Lemieux  
chopperhatch : 11/15/2020 8:36 pm : link
In comment 15046727 Matt M. said:
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In comment 15046716 Jay on the Island said:


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In comment 15046672 CowboyHaters said:


Quote:


In comment 15046598 Ike#88 said:


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is more versatile than Hernandez which is why he moved over. Frankly I think he is better than Hernandez at LG but we will see what the coaches do.



I rather see 66 play and Zeitler is a much better player than Hernandez. Hernandez looked promising as a rookie and he hasn’t gotten any better. I think he has been underwhelming to say the least.


I agree, I would like to see the Giants attempt to trade Hernandez this offseason. I do not think he is worth the money he will require to re-sign. If the Giants can acquire a day two pick for him then I think they should do it.

Let Lemieux remain the starting LG and draft another guard and add a cheaper veteran to compete for the starting RG spot with Kyle Murphy and a draft pick.


Personally, I agree with Lemieux remaining at LG. I think he has been the best OG this year and that is his position. I would have taken this as an opportunity for Zeitler and Hernandez to potentially battle. I think Zeitler has been a little better this year, but both have disappointed.

Two reasons, now, I say proceed with Hernandez and Lemieux. One, who knows how Zeitler does with concussion protocol. Two, Zeitler has little to no chance of being on the team next year while Hernandez could very well not only remain but as a starter.

Again, I would hope with 2 weeks to practice, they take it as a time to move Hernandez to RG because I envision Lemieux at LG for a while. But, I'll that much up to the coaches.,


At least you didn't say that WH played RG in college this time. Lol, teasing.

I kinda disagree. Would rather keep Zeitler, trade Hernandez and draft another Guard next year. Unlike many here, I am not nearly as thrilled with WH's play at Guard. He looks slow on run plays and seems to get pushed back too far on pass plays.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Lemieux  
Jay on the Island : 11/15/2020 8:40 pm : link
In comment 15046728 chopperhatch said:
Quote:


While I disagree that WH will command a high price tag, I agree that trading him while he is viewed as being a solid Guard is npt a bad idea. My biggest problem with him is that whenever he is pulling he is so impossibly slow and stiff that athletic DL that can bend even a little bit, can get under his pads and render him just a pylon. he lacks lateral quickness and is essentially a fire hydrant in the middle. He is much better staying in his position and remaining straight line.

lemieux is more mobile and can bend a bit. But trading him and cutting Zeitler crates quite the whole on the O line.

The Hernandez situations is eerily similar to the Weston Richburg one. After impressing early Richburg was a disappointment over his final two seasons with the Giants. Many expected him to sign cheap elsewhere but he became one of the highest paid centers in the league with SF. With so many teams in need of OL help and WH's draft position and performance during his rookie season I think that he will get $9-12 million per season on the FA market.

WH's lack of mobility is a big reason why I am not a fan of re-signing him. Lemieux has already proven to be a good pulling guard. He might not be as talented as Hernandez but I am confident that he will be a very good guard as he gets stronger and improves his technique.

Regardless of how he finishes the season Zeitler should be released unless some team is willing to part with a day 3 pick for him this offseason. He isn't worth his cap number and he is a declining player.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Lemieux  
Matt M. : 11/15/2020 8:48 pm : link
In comment 15046734 chopperhatch said:
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In comment 15046727 Matt M. said:


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In comment 15046716 Jay on the Island said:


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In comment 15046672 CowboyHaters said:


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In comment 15046598 Ike#88 said:


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is more versatile than Hernandez which is why he moved over. Frankly I think he is better than Hernandez at LG but we will see what the coaches do.



I rather see 66 play and Zeitler is a much better player than Hernandez. Hernandez looked promising as a rookie and he hasn’t gotten any better. I think he has been underwhelming to say the least.


I agree, I would like to see the Giants attempt to trade Hernandez this offseason. I do not think he is worth the money he will require to re-sign. If the Giants can acquire a day two pick for him then I think they should do it.

Let Lemieux remain the starting LG and draft another guard and add a cheaper veteran to compete for the starting RG spot with Kyle Murphy and a draft pick.


Personally, I agree with Lemieux remaining at LG. I think he has been the best OG this year and that is his position. I would have taken this as an opportunity for Zeitler and Hernandez to potentially battle. I think Zeitler has been a little better this year, but both have disappointed.

Two reasons, now, I say proceed with Hernandez and Lemieux. One, who knows how Zeitler does with concussion protocol. Two, Zeitler has little to no chance of being on the team next year while Hernandez could very well not only remain but as a starter.

Again, I would hope with 2 weeks to practice, they take it as a time to move Hernandez to RG because I envision Lemieux at LG for a while. But, I'll that much up to the coaches.,



At least you didn't say that WH played RG in college this time. Lol, teasing.

I kinda disagree. Would rather keep Zeitler, trade Hernandez and draft another Guard next year. Unlike many here, I am not nearly as thrilled with WH's play at Guard. He looks slow on run plays and seems to get pushed back too far on pass plays.
I think earlier in the season I would have agreed with keeping Zeitler and trading Hernandez (or cutting him). Now, it is getting interesting because Zeitler was starting to play a little better, but with a concussion, who knows how they proceed. Hernandez may be playing for his spot next season the rest of the way. The way I look at this OL with an eye on the future is they should have 4/5 in place right now in Thomas, Lemieux (LG), Gates, and Peart. Gates' steady improvement is very underrated for what it does to their strategy for the future. Hernandez and Zeitler could both be gone or one could be back. But, neither should be a lock at this point.
Who  
mdthedream : 11/15/2020 9:10 pm : link
cares the line has been playing great. They are moving them in and out of the lineup and to be honest I think last week the line looked the best it has looked in a long time.
Since WH sat down with covid  
ColHowPepper : 11/15/2020 9:15 pm : link
I don't see how anyone could not acknowledge that the run game became more cohesive, more powerful, more push with #66 at LG. To me it was clear as day to the naked eye.

Yet not a few here, despite the visual evidence, declared w/o a shred of doubt that Hernandez is a better run blocker and pass protector than Lemieux, all because of the online analysis that appears from time to time: that analyst (forget his name) said those same things about WH vs Lemieux that the BBIers were parroting verbatim. It just did not meet my eye test, and I'll acknowledge I can and do miss a lot. That analysis was taken down on Tuesday or Wed, was pissed, because I wanted to review.
RE: Who  
chopperhatch : 11/15/2020 9:18 pm : link
In comment 15046779 mdthedream said:
Quote:
cares the line has been playing great. They are moving them in and out of the lineup and to be honest I think last week the line looked the best it has looked in a long time.


Great is a stretch....don't forget, our Qb got sacked 5 times just last week.
RE: Since WH sat down with covid  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/15/2020 9:27 pm : link
In comment 15046787 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
I don't see how anyone could not acknowledge that the run game became more cohesive, more powerful, more push with #66 at LG. To me it was clear as day to the naked eye.

Yet not a few here, despite the visual evidence, declared w/o a shred of doubt that Hernandez is a better run blocker and pass protector than Lemieux, all because of the online analysis that appears from time to time: that analyst (forget his name) said those same things about WH vs Lemieux that the BBIers were parroting verbatim. It just did not meet my eye test, and I'll acknowledge I can and do miss a lot. That analysis was taken down on Tuesday or Wed, was pissed, because I wanted to review.


I think the issue becomes that people see the run game improve and begin to declare who is the better Guard. Meanwhile, Lemieux has struggled pretty significantly in pass protection.

It is also one of those areas that most fans don't have the skills to figure out what is happening, especially when they don't know the assignments, yet will often make statements they position as fact.

Sy's game reviews have been very balanced in talking about the good and the bad and he even said last week that Lemieux had some good and also had some really bad. Any of us trying to determine if Hernandez or Lemieux is better is just conjecture at this point.
Not a big fan of Hernandez  
j_rud : 11/15/2020 9:28 pm : link
I dont think hes ever lived up to the draft day hope. Cliched or not, he's very much a case of "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane". He's an absolute mountain of a man but generates no push and cant anchor in pass pro. Id be willing to bet he's not re-signed.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Lemieux  
fireitup77 : 11/15/2020 9:34 pm : link
In comment 15046727 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 15046716 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


In comment 15046672 CowboyHaters said:


Quote:


In comment 15046598 Ike#88 said:


Quote:


is more versatile than Hernandez which is why he moved over. Frankly I think he is better than Hernandez at LG but we will see what the coaches do.



I rather see 66 play and Zeitler is a much better player than Hernandez. Hernandez looked promising as a rookie and he hasn’t gotten any better. I think he has been underwhelming to say the least.


I agree, I would like to see the Giants attempt to trade Hernandez this offseason. I do not think he is worth the money he will require to re-sign. If the Giants can acquire a day two pick for him then I think they should do it.

Let Lemieux remain the starting LG and draft another guard and add a cheaper veteran to compete for the starting RG spot with Kyle Murphy and a draft pick.


Personally, I agree with Lemieux remaining at LG. I think he has been the best OG this year and that is his position. I would have taken this as an opportunity for Zeitler and Hernandez to potentially battle. I think Zeitler has been a little better this year, but both have disappointed.

Two reasons, now, I say proceed with Hernandez and Lemieux. One, who knows how Zeitler does with concussion protocol. Two, Zeitler has little to no chance of being on the team next year while Hernandez could very well not only remain but as a starter.

Again, I would hope with 2 weeks to practice, they take it as a time to move Hernandez to RG because I envision Lemieux at LG for a while. But, I'll that much up to the coaches.,


Why does Zietler have little chance of being on this team next year? If you ask anyone who knows anything about Oline play they all will tell you he is the best oline player on this team. You don't improve your team by cutting your best players. So much stupid on this board.
RE: RE: Since WH sat down with covid  
Matt M. : 11/15/2020 9:37 pm : link
In comment 15046798 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15046787 ColHowPepper said:


Quote:


I don't see how anyone could not acknowledge that the run game became more cohesive, more powerful, more push with #66 at LG. To me it was clear as day to the naked eye.

Yet not a few here, despite the visual evidence, declared w/o a shred of doubt that Hernandez is a better run blocker and pass protector than Lemieux, all because of the online analysis that appears from time to time: that analyst (forget his name) said those same things about WH vs Lemieux that the BBIers were parroting verbatim. It just did not meet my eye test, and I'll acknowledge I can and do miss a lot. That analysis was taken down on Tuesday or Wed, was pissed, because I wanted to review.



I think the issue becomes that people see the run game improve and begin to declare who is the better Guard. Meanwhile, Lemieux has struggled pretty significantly in pass protection.

It is also one of those areas that most fans don't have the skills to figure out what is happening, especially when they don't know the assignments, yet will often make statements they position as fact.

Sy's game reviews have been very balanced in talking about the good and the bad and he even said last week that Lemieux had some good and also had some really bad. Any of us trying to determine if Hernandez or Lemieux is better is just conjecture at this point.
That's fair. But, for me personally, saying Lemieux is better has more to do with Hernandez overall play for 2 years. Ultimately, I think Lemieux will be a better OG. Hernandez has been a below average to average OG for two years. Lemieux has helped to vastly improve the running game, which is what is setting him apart for me. I acknowledge that he has struggled a little with pass protection, but so did Hernandez. So, overall, I would say Lemeiux is playing better.
Cant wait to read  
5BowlsSoon : 11/15/2020 10:33 pm : link
The reviews of Lemieux’ pass blocking today?
Jones was..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/15/2020 10:37 pm : link
pressured once again on half of his dropbacks.
RE: Jones was..  
5BowlsSoon : 11/15/2020 11:09 pm : link
In comment 15046860 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
pressured once again on half of his dropbacks.


Not surprised....most teams blitz like hell against us. Playing 3 rookie OL guys probably encourages that behavior.
They are saving him for the playoffs ....  
short lease : 11/16/2020 12:16 am : link
.
Think about what your average person feels like from the flu  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/16/2020 12:39 am : link
Then multiply that by a billion with more lean body mass. Sure he's getting IV but takes time to recover. Smart move not trusting him yet, especially a guy that relies on strength like him.
FMiC  
ColHowPepper : 11/16/2020 11:09 am : link
I agree, along with Matt M, what you say is fair. And, true enough, last week (not yesterday), there were times Lemieux did not anchor well vs bull rush. That was his first sustained action, as best I can tell. It's ok to believe he can improve, to Matt's point that WH is two + years into his career already.

I said in another (PG?) thread, the OL still has a long wayto ago, noting, as you did, that DJ was under pretty constant pressure yesterday. I'm still amazed he was as accurate as he was in the face of stiff pressure. I think we need another high quality piece, and Gates, while he has been a pleasant surprise, to your point on understanding assignments and schemes, is he the long term answer at C?
RE: FMiC  
Matt M. : 11/17/2020 10:34 pm : link
In comment 15047430 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
I agree, along with Matt M, what you say is fair. And, true enough, last week (not yesterday), there were times Lemieux did not anchor well vs bull rush. That was his first sustained action, as best I can tell. It's ok to believe he can improve, to Matt's point that WH is two + years into his career already.

I said in another (PG?) thread, the OL still has a long wayto ago, noting, as you did, that DJ was under pretty constant pressure yesterday. I'm still amazed he was as accurate as he was in the face of stiff pressure. I think we need another high quality piece, and Gates, while he has been a pleasant surprise, to your point on understanding assignments and schemes, is he the long term answer at C?
In my opinion, Gates could very well be the long term answer. The first couple of weeks, that didn't look to be the case, but that was his first game action as a C. Since then he has gotten better each week, is right now their best and most consistent OL (which again may be an indictment of the rest of the OL as much his play), and he does seem to be making the correct reads and calls.
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