Giants Trade
Odell Beckham Jr.
Browns Trade
Jabrill Peppers
#17 Pick (Dexter Lawrence)
#95 Pick (Oshane Ximines)
I heard Cowherd reference the trade today on his show, so I figured it’d be a good time to revisit the trade. At the time, the universal opinion was the Giants lost the trade. However, it is no longer clear cut.
I feel bad for Beckham; it hasn’t worked out for him in Cleveland. I hated to see him get hurt again this year. The trade has not worked out as intended for Cleveland, there is no way around that.
As for the return, Peppers has shown more this year under this coaching staff. He’s had some nice returns in special teams. I’m hopeful he can play well alongside McKinney down the line.
Lawrence has arguably been Gettleman’s best pick, he is a keg on what hopefully becomes a strong defensive line. We’ll see if Oshane Ximines ever amounts to anything.
Lastly, a big portion of this trade will come down to Jones. I wonder if this trade was made with the idea that Jones was the pick at #6. Getting the extra first rounder may have made the decision to draft Jones easier for Gettleman and company.
One thing is certain, the trade paved the way for a much different direction for this franchise.
However I hate assessing trades based on the players selected with the picks - it wasn’t a draft day trade. The goal was to get assets and that’s what we got.
If you trade away a player for a 1st round pick and then a year later that pick is a bust, that doesn’t mean the trade sucked it means you picked the wrong player.
Comparable to how Shockey getting hurt in 2007 took pressure off a young Eli
However I hate assessing trades based on the players selected with the picks - it wasn’t a draft day trade. The goal was to get assets and that’s what we got.
If you trade away a player for a 1st round pick and then a year later that pick is a bust, that doesn’t mean the trade sucked it means you picked the wrong player.
Didn’t we also get Kevin Zeitler?.
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given the circumstances and even better now.
However I hate assessing trades based on the players selected with the picks - it wasn’t a draft day trade. The goal was to get assets and that’s what we got.
If you trade away a player for a 1st round pick and then a year later that pick is a bust, that doesn’t mean the trade sucked it means you picked the wrong player.
Didn’t we also get Kevin Zeitler?.
Zietler for Olivier Vernon was done a week earlier but i think was officially folded into the deal in the end
Didn’t we also get Kevin Zeitler?.
Zietler for Olivier Vernon was done a week earlier but i think was officially folded into the deal in the end
I also heard or read somewhere that the OV for Zeitler deal was indeed a part of the overall OBJ for picks and Peppers deal.
Which makes it even better for DG.
The hoi poloi of BBI of course, cried: Jabril Peppers sux! No way is he equivalent to a first round draft pick - since DG sorta claimed Peppers was "like" getting another 1st round pick, like the one he used to nab Lawrence.
But it's lame to review this with OBJ out with an ACL....
That being said, with hindsight, since he shattered his ankle in 2017, he has never been the same. That transcendent player that had arguably the greatest 3 year start to a career for a WR in NFL history does not exist anymore. Signing him and then trading him hurt our cap in the short term, but trading him was 100% the right move. The bigger issue is that our management has done nothing to attempt to replace his production.
1. He paid him to trade him a year later, incurring $16M in dead cap space
2. He likely had better deals on the table in the 2018 off-season, but supposedly let Shurmur talk him into keeping him.
Beckham was a clown who had to go, but it could and should have been done much better than it was.
Beckham hasn't done nothing worse than many of these guys on this team now. And players who had criminal records were sought.
His production so far in Cleveland is not a good barometer because the quarterback throwing to him is not very good.
1. He paid him to trade him a year later, incurring $16M in dead cap space
2. He likely had better deals on the table in the 2018 off-season, but supposedly let Shurmur talk him into keeping him.
Beckham was a clown who had to go, but it could and should have been done much better than it was.
Add one more...
3. He didn't shop the deal. We have no idea what the 49ers would have offered...because he didn't even ask them.
Beckham hasn't done nothing worse than many of these guys on this team now. And players who had criminal records were sought.
Doesn’t even matter. His body wasn’t built to last in the NFL. By the end of this season, he’ll have played in 38 of a possible 64 games over the past 4 years.
Selling high on him was one of the smartest things DG has done
Beckham hasn't done nothing worse than many of these guys on this team now. And players who had criminal records were sought.
I imagine that being an NFL coach is hard enough without having to account for babysitting idiots. Beckham was an idiot here, and his best days were behind him anyway. The only mistake was not trading him sooner.
Oh, if that were only the worst of DG and his bad deals.
Oh, if that were only the worst of DG and his bad deals.
The Giants would not have gotten that return if Beckham wasn't signed to an extension. Sure it would have been better from a cap stand point but the Giants would have likely just received a 1st round pick alone.
Look it would have been great if Beckham stayed and was the player he was pre-injury but he didn't have the same explosion that he had prior to the injury. He's still a great talent but his behavior just got tiresome especially when the Giants were losing which was often. Beckham wants to win but he also craves being in the spotlight.
He was a special talent, you just don't see WRs who accelerate at the moment of the catch the way he did which allowed him to smoke DBs in such absurd fashion (all those insane slant TDs). Odell had his shortcomings, but the guy was a special talent before the injuries sapped him of that HOF explosiveness. One knock on Odell was always that he wasn't the most physical player so he couldn't make up for the loss of quickness/explosiveness by relying on positioning/physicality like other WRs.
It's a shame that he's probably never going to return to the levels of his first 2 seasons. So in hindsight, I guess I was foolish for thinking he could've gotten back to his peak level at the time of the trade. As it stands, the Giants made the right move.
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got taken to woodshed on giving him the contract and eating a good bit of it.
Oh, if that were only the worst of DG and his bad deals.
The Giants would not have gotten that return if Beckham wasn't signed to an extension.
and you know this how?
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In comment 15048423 LBH15 said:
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got taken to woodshed on giving him the contract and eating a good bit of it.
Oh, if that were only the worst of DG and his bad deals.
The Giants would not have gotten that return if Beckham wasn't signed to an extension.
and you know this how?
Common sense? If you are trading for a player that costs less money on your cap and has more years of control, that's a good thing?
There is an almost 0% chance Beckham had more value post-2017 coming off a broken leg and basically in a contract dispute than he had post-2018 when he proved he was healthy and was signed with the NYG incurring the SB$ on their cap.
After this year the Browns can cut him free and clear with 0 dead money any of the next 3 years because the Giants ate the prorated signing bonus when they dealt him.
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What was needed was more strict coaching and accountability.
Beckham hasn't done nothing worse than many of these guys on this team now. And players who had criminal records were sought.
I imagine that being an NFL coach is hard enough without having to account for babysitting idiots. Beckham was an idiot here, and his best days were behind him anyway. The only mistake was not trading him sooner.
Interesting that the year he was traded he played all 16 game with a injured hernia and had over 1000 yards..
Unlike a guy like Tate, who you was fine with signing. Praised the YAC and good nature. How's that turning out??
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In comment 15048408 GManinDC said:
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What was needed was more strict coaching and accountability.
Beckham hasn't done nothing worse than many of these guys on this team now. And players who had criminal records were sought.
I imagine that being an NFL coach is hard enough without having to account for babysitting idiots. Beckham was an idiot here, and his best days were behind him anyway. The only mistake was not trading him sooner.
Interesting that the year he was traded he played all 16 game with a injured hernia and had over 1000 yards..
Unlike a guy like Tate, who you was fine with signing. Praised the YAC and good nature. How's that turning out??
Tate as a Giant (12 starts, 19 games) - 73 receptions / 49.8 ypg / 13 ypc / 8 tds / 61% catch% / 7.9 yards per target
OBJ as a Brown (22 starts, 22 games) - 97 receptions / 58.9 ypg / 14 ypc / 8 tds / 55% catch% / 7.7 yards per target
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In comment 15048408 GManinDC said:
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What was needed was more strict coaching and accountability.
Beckham hasn't done nothing worse than many of these guys on this team now. And players who had criminal records were sought.
I imagine that being an NFL coach is hard enough without having to account for babysitting idiots. Beckham was an idiot here, and his best days were behind him anyway. The only mistake was not trading him sooner.
Interesting that the year he was traded he played all 16 game with a injured hernia and had over 1000 yards..
Unlike a guy like Tate, who you was fine with signing. Praised the YAC and good nature. How's that turning out??
Better than it we'd kept Beckham if for no other reason that Tate is cheaper. I'll be fine seeing Tate go too.
Beckham's a punk and a loser. That's been borne out repeatedly here and in Cleveland. Good riddance.
He's no longer an elite WR, and he's still injured and missing games. Frankly, he may not have been elite by the time we unloaded him.
His peak now is a 1000 yard, 5 TD player. And even that will be a huge stretch to accomplish
People forget that after we signed OBJ to the big contract, he said he would rather play in Los Angeles. I guarantee John Mara threw more chairs when he heard that... right after signing the largest check in franchise history.
Then, he basically quits and refuses to play through a minor injury later that season.
I guarantee Mara said to get this child off of my team.
Odell is always a victim apparently and nothing is his fault. When we traded him, he was not the player we saw in his first two seasons. That Odell was long gone.
It is basically over for him and he will be nothing more than an average NFL WR from the day he was traded.
To the person earlier in the thread who said we did not replace his production. What production are you talking about? He has not replaced his own production since he left. In fact, Slayton has more than matched OBJs production over the past two seasons.
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got taken to woodshed on giving him the contract and eating a good bit of it.
Oh, if that were only the worst of DG and his bad deals.
The Giants would not have gotten that return if Beckham wasn't signed to an extension. Sure it would have been better from a cap stand point but the Giants would have likely just received a 1st round pick alone.
Look it would have been great if Beckham stayed and was the player he was pre-injury but he didn't have the same explosion that he had prior to the injury. He's still a great talent but his behavior just got tiresome especially when the Giants were losing which was often. Beckham wants to win but he also craves being in the spotlight.
Didn’t say the trade was bad.
Come to think of it we could have drafted both of those guys.
Come to think of it we could have drafted both of those guys.
"We could have drafted those guys"... Is an idiotic and self serving argument after the fact. It's a game loaded in favor of anyone willing to take such low hanging fruit, with odds of 31 to 1 that the person posting it will be "right" just by chance.
The entire league passed on Metcalf in round 1, so really, whats the point? And which one of them will devolve into a diva, eventually?
I'll take Darius Slayton in round FIVE for 200, Alex, over either Brown or Metcalf.
Thanks for cheating, errr I mean playing.
And BTW, this team, Joe Judge's team, is based on an extremely stout DL.
Or hadn't you noticed?
Oh well.
For one, OBJ was not going to fit into the culture that is being built here. I'm not the biggest fan of Peppers, but he does have some value. There are skills that he has, and he's a legitimate starter. Lawrence, however, has tremendous value in the middle of the defense. I think he's a bit underappreciated here, but I do believe he's a big part of the reason that the defense has played pretty well all season, and in particular, very well against the run. And he's on a rookie deal, playing well.
Ximines is a rotational piece, and there's some value. However, what we know about OBJ (sans the injuries), and what we know about Lawrence, I would do that deal right now 1 for 1. Some might disagree, but I would do it, and I'm a fan of OBJ's game.
DG was wise to unload him before his reputation as a player declined
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Cleveland could have kept the picks and drafted AJ Brown or DK Metcalf, both of whom are better players than Beckham and on cheap rookie contracts.
Come to think of it we could have drafted both of those guys.
"We could have drafted those guys"... Is an idiotic and self serving argument after the fact. It's a game loaded in favor of anyone willing to take such low hanging fruit, with odds of 31 to 1 that the person posting it will be "right" just by chance.
The entire league passed on Metcalf in round 1, so really, whats the point? And which one of them will devolve into a diva, eventually?
I'll take Darius Slayton in round FIVE for 200, Alex, over either Brown or Metcalf.
Thanks for cheating, errr I mean playing.
And BTW, this team, Joe Judge's team, is based on an extremely stout DL.
Or hadn't you noticed?
I'm glad you're not in charge, because that's dumb. First, they are both better players than Slayton by a wide margin. Second, nothing precludes you from drafting Slayton in round 5 if you also drafted either of the other players. Third, the team would still be built around the defensive line as both of those guys were 2nd rounders picked after our 2019 2nd round pick that Gettleman traded, along with #132 and #142 for DeAndre Baker, who we all know was a bad deal and a waste of resources.
In other words, we could've had either of those guys, plus we'd still have Tomlinson, Lawrence, and Williams on the DL, so what's the point of saying, "this team is built around the defensive line"? It would still be that way and we'd have superior talent at WR to go with it. The goal is to accumulate as many great players as possible with your available resources, or 'haven't you noticed'?
A mismatch WR remains a big need on this team, and it's likely that in 2021 a premium pick will be required to get one, and whoever we pick, there's a decent enough chance they won't be as dominant as the aforementioned players.
You can like what DG and Judge are building and still reserve some criticism of DG for wasting that opportunity on a ill-conceived and unwise trade.
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In comment 15048421 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15048408 GManinDC said:
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What was needed was more strict coaching and accountability.
Beckham hasn't done nothing worse than many of these guys on this team now. And players who had criminal records were sought.
I imagine that being an NFL coach is hard enough without having to account for babysitting idiots. Beckham was an idiot here, and his best days were behind him anyway. The only mistake was not trading him sooner.
Interesting that the year he was traded he played all 16 game with a injured hernia and had over 1000 yards..
Unlike a guy like Tate, who you was fine with signing. Praised the YAC and good nature. How's that turning out??
Tate as a Giant (12 starts, 19 games) - 73 receptions / 49.8 ypg / 13 ypc / 8 tds / 61% catch% / 7.9 yards per target
OBJ as a Brown (22 starts, 22 games) - 97 receptions / 58.9 ypg / 14 ypc / 8 tds / 55% catch% / 7.7 yards per target
not sure what you're showing me
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In comment 15048421 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15048408 GManinDC said:
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What was needed was more strict coaching and accountability.
Beckham hasn't done nothing worse than many of these guys on this team now. And players who had criminal records were sought.
I imagine that being an NFL coach is hard enough without having to account for babysitting idiots. Beckham was an idiot here, and his best days were behind him anyway. The only mistake was not trading him sooner.
Interesting that the year he was traded he played all 16 game with a injured hernia and had over 1000 yards..
Unlike a guy like Tate, who you was fine with signing. Praised the YAC and good nature. How's that turning out??
Better than it we'd kept Beckham if for no other reason that Tate is cheaper. I'll be fine seeing Tate go too.
Beckham's a punk and a loser. That's been borne out repeatedly here and in Cleveland. Good riddance.
So I guess Tate is some stand up guy who goes in front of the camera and demands the ball??. Real stand up guy. I guess he's a winner?
So I guess you had a problem with Eli throwing the ball to Plax during the 07 game against the Packers?. You have a elite player, you feed them the ball. It ain't rocket science..
We took the hit the year of the trade.
That freed up a ton of space for next 3 years.
Come to think of it we could have drafted both of those guys.
Really, say the guy who 2 weeks ago was ready to get rid of Jones and calling for Brissett or Mullens? DK has a elite QB throwing the ball to him. OBJ had to deal with a bunch of other very good WR's on the team
He's no longer an elite WR, and he's still injured and missing games. Frankly, he may not have been elite by the time we unloaded him.
His peak now is a 1000 yard, 5 TD player. And even that will be a huge stretch to accomplish
How us that his peak? How do you know this. He's no longer an elite WR?. I think so. People have been trying to diminish his skills since he left..
1000 yard and 5 TD's? I would bet most WR's would jump at those numbers