who is being targeted by teams within the range of that jump. Because without that, it doesn't really make sense to pull the trigger on that trade now.
trade but it seems like a bit of an overpay. To me, #38 has more value than moving up 4 spots in the 20s of any draft. You can find good players in the first 10 spots of the second round.
But yeah i think its more likely they needed the value of 23 for some other move.
Im ok moving up but i really dont want it to be for Toppin. I wasnt even loving the idea of taking him if he fell to 8. But 8 and 23 is only getting you up to what 5-6 in this draft? Id rather keep the picks unless we can move up for one of the top 3 (i know its not happening).
im going to trust this FO. So im guessing Rose has a reason for doing this now. Maybe UTA had another offer from a team, maybe this is part of another trade, maybe a team offered us the 40th pick for money and we figured we can easily replace 38, etc...
agree with everyone else that making this trade now seems premature unless they are planning to package those picks to move up. This is the kind of trade that would typically be done when teams are on the clock.
But yeah i think its more likely they needed the value of 23 for some other move.
Im ok moving up but i really dont want it to be for Toppin. I wasnt even loving the idea of taking him if he fell to 8. But 8 and 23 is only getting you up to what 5-6 in this draft? Id rather keep the picks unless we can move up for one of the top 3 (i know its not happening).
I wouldn't do it for Toppin, but I can see how the Knicks were willing to part with 38 since Mock Drafts seem to indicate that potentially a number of players we could be targetting are listed in the late 20's and since 2nd Rounders can be obtained for cash it was worth the deal.
but I feel like you don't see teams looking to dump picks high in the second round for cash any more. You do see deals like that later in the second round....but that's where drafts usually become a wasteland.
Have a clear answer why teams trade/trade for the rights of players clearly not coming to the NBA ? Every year we see random 37 year old Euro/African players rights traded. Is there some sort of money exchanged by doing so? I never understood this.
It is a strange move, but I think we are looking into it too much.
I think to me it is an indication of what we spoke about yesterday.
The Knicks have settled on Vassell or Okoro at #8 and want to make sure they get one of the cluster at PGs later (Maledon, Flynn, Terry and Pritchard). Perhaps, they thought 4 spots made the difference.
Obviously not the case here but sometimes teams use rights because of the rule something has to be traded and you cannot just trade someone something for nothing (i.e., a salary dump) - more common is the top 55 protected 2nd for this purpose.
im going to trust this FO. So im guessing Rose has a reason for doing this now. Maybe UTA had another offer from a team, maybe this is part of another trade, maybe a team offered us the 40th pick for money and we figured we can easily replace 38, etc...
Yeah, I'll give 'em the benefit of the doubt too, for at least one offseason. Excited to see what happens later. But somewhat nervous as well. I'm hoping Rose isn't pulling out all the stops for LaMela.
It is a strange move, but I think we are looking into it too much.
I think to me it is an indication of what we spoke about yesterday.
The Knicks have settled on Vassell or Okoro at #8 and want to make sure they get one of the cluster at PGs later (Maledon, Flynn, Terry and Pritchard). Perhaps, they thought 4 spots made the difference.
Still doesnt make sense to do the deal now, you wait til 23 then make the trade, what happens if all those players you like are gone?
But then I remembered it's the Knicks. Trade up in the late first round of a draft before the draft starts. Regardless of how it turns it out it's a classic Knicks move and just when I thought nothing they could do would surprise me.
But then I remembered it's the Knicks. Trade up in the late first round of a draft before the draft starts. Regardless of how it turns it out it's a classic Knicks move and just when I thought nothing they could do would surprise me.
be offering? I cant imagine they are offering brown and without him i see zero way they get into the top 3
What if they did Hayward and their 3 firsts (with Hayward agreeing to an extension with GS) and took back Wiggins with #2? That's the only thing I can think of. Would probably also take a future first or two to get it done.
But then I remembered it's the Knicks. Trade up in the late first round of a draft before the draft starts. Regardless of how it turns it out it's a classic Knicks move and just when I thought nothing they could do would surprise me.
We know NOTHING about this new front office other than that they all have OUTSTANDING reputations. What Isiah Thomas or Phil Jackson or Steve Mills did has ZERO to do with this FO team.
Matt Babcock
@MattBabcock11
·
9m
Rumors: the T’Wolves don’t want #1. They could move back for Obi, or take Wiseman and trade him later. The Cavs want Obi too. The Hornets and Spurs want Wiseman. Ball to Hornets over Big O, if they can't get Wiseman. Williams to Pistons. Vassell or Achiuwa to Wizards... #nbadraft
Its like the knicks are going out of there way to make sure they have no shooting. You will not win in this league with 3 or 4 of your starters being bad shooters. Okoro just doesnt make sense to me.
RE: with teams hurting financially i could see 2nds..
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Moving up four spots to No. 23 strengthens the Knicks ability to package that and No. 8 to target a pick/player above them on the board tonight.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Moving up four spots to No. 23 strengthens the Knicks ability to package that and No. 8 to target a pick/player above them on the board tonight.
yeah well duh (aimed at Woj, not you)
Yeah, I posted it because he may know that this is what's happening
Tweet from @wojespn: Moving up four spots to No. 23 strengthens the Knicks ability to package that and No. 8 to target a pick/player above them on the board tonight.
Its like the knicks are going out of there way to make sure they have no shooting. You will not win in this league with 3 or 4 of your starters being bad shooters. Okoro just doesnt make sense to me.
Yep. Don't want him for precisely that reason. Either get a point guard or a guy who can shoot. Hayes or Lewis if they want a point, Vassell if they want a shooter.
Yup, unless they are using 8 and 23 to move up, or using 23 for another player?
That was my thoughts too. Or, they literally did the math and know for (99%) certain a player they like will definitely be at 23. Seems far fetched but i guess it's possible?
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Moving up four spots to No. 23 strengthens the Knicks ability to package that and No. 8 to target a pick/player above them on the board tonight.
that assumes 23 has more value than 27 and 38....and even if that's true, why does Utah do the deal?
but I'd rather the Knicks stay at #8 and #23 instead of moving up.
I agree. In terms of why now, there could be several good (hopefully) reasons. After making inquiries, perhaps this was as low as they could get with the 27 and 38 and they didn't want to potentially lose the opportunity to another team as things heat up during the draft. It would imply that there are two players or more they are interested in and didn't want to miss out on by three places. Finally, there has been talk about the Knicks being willing to buy another pick. If so, it adds to the explanation of this move. Hope springs eternal.
that its not likely this is for a player they forecast as available at 23 but not at 27. More likely, its a sweeter asset to trade up from 8.
But another possibility is that they viewed it as a "free" upgrade from 27 to 23 given that they view 38 as very replaceable with a purcha$e of an early 2nd rounder.
Mike Vorkunov
@MikeVorkunov
Maybe a trade like 8 + 23 to move up to No. 5 (and something else) could work if Cleveland likes that offer. Knicks seem to have some interest in Obi Toppin and Cavaliers have been projected as a landing spot for him in mock drafts.
My friend is speculating it could be a trade up for someone you
"Some NBA executives believe the Knicks traded up from No. 27 to this spot to get ahead of Oklahoma City and ensure they land Stewart on draft night, though it's possible the Knicks attempt to package this pick to move up deeper into the top 10."
To use a bunch of assets to move up a couple spots in a notoriously poor draft. Again I’m giving this FO a chance before I kill them. But to go into this with three picks in the top 38 and to come out with just toppin would be really disappointing
To use a bunch of assets to move up a couple spots in a notoriously poor draft. Again I’m giving this FO a chance before I kill them. But to go into this with three picks in the top 38 and to come out with just toppin would be really disappointing
Bunch of assets seems a little extreme. A late first and a early second are nice but really not that valuable.
If the guy you really want is Toppin and think there's a big dip, then it's a small price to pay to get your guy.
that bad on defense? Is it a mental or physical thing with him?
This is purely my opinion but from what I've seen it's a combination of the two. He's physically limited in terms of how fast he can move laterally and isn't quick enough to flip his hips to get around screens. There is also some mental stuff which I think comes from a lack of coaching/experience. His technique isn't good but it's fixable. He'll never be a good defensive player but I don't think he's so limited physically that with better coaching and more reps he can't become passable on defense to the point where he's not a liability to have on the court.
I like Toppin a lot personally, more so than it seems others on this board do. Having Mitch at the 5 can help to mask some of these limitations for the time being but they'll need to find two other good defensive players to round out the bunch with RJ, Mitch and Toppin.
This is also where having Thibs helps. If what I've seen in watching him play is correct and he is by all accounts a good kid who is smart and works hard, then Thibs should be able to coach him up to the point where he's passable.
To use a bunch of assets to move up a couple spots in a notoriously poor draft. Again I’m giving this FO a chance before I kill them. But to go into this with three picks in the top 38 and to come out with just toppin would be really disappointing
This may be the one year where they can use their financial might to buy a late first or second rounder. I know we all say this every year but this year is unique (I think, we'll see tonight). They could also do so by taking back a contract to help a team get under the luxury tax or clear up extra space.
hate to be mean but Anthony Edwards sounds like he's a very low iq prospect. Not sure how important that is in the NBA vs. the NFL but reading some of his quotes/interviews... he might have issues picking up schemes.
Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN
·
46s
Wouldn’t be surprising if Knicks made a move for Obi Toppin. Lot of ties to the organization — CAA, training with Rick Brunson and has been working out at the gym of Dajuan Wagner, who is like family to Worldwide Wes.
Makes sense to me at 5 or 6, moving up with 8 and 23. We've not heard anything about him being connected to us. Stealth mode makes sense here. I'm fine with him and do think he can coexist with RJ.
hate to be mean but Anthony Edwards sounds like he's a very low iq prospect. Not sure how important that is in the NBA vs. the NFL but reading some of his quotes/interviews... he might have issues picking up schemes.
I was trying to put this the right way but that's a concern about Toppin too. Most of the reason he is so old for his grade is he was academically ineligible his freshman season.
my main problem is that because of his defensive limitations, I can't play the small ball 5. He gets steals in passing lanes and will get weakside blocks. But you can't credibly use him as a 5. Hell, you'd have a better chance at success asking Okoro to do that. Toppin is a little like a young Randle. He's a bad team defender and is gonna get absolutely cooked in the PnR.
Maybe Thibs can coach him up? I wouldn't bank on it though.
hate to be mean but Anthony Edwards sounds like he's a very low iq prospect. Not sure how important that is in the NBA vs. the NFL but reading some of his quotes/interviews... he might have issues picking up schemes.
I was trying to put this the right way but that's a concern about Toppin too. Most of the reason he is so old for his grade is he was academically ineligible his freshman season.
Toppin at least comes off as relatively well-spoken and is clearly a very hard worker. You can look at that history (without it being a huge leap of faith) and come to the conclusion that he was immature at the time but has learned from it. Whereas with Edwards, he seems aloof both on and off the court and has a reputation for disengaging or disappearing for stretches so personally (if we were picking in the top 3) I'd be concerned with him improving drastically.
RE: RE: RE: RE: My friend is speculating it could be a trade up for someone you
Edwards' answer about the NBA vs. NFL was about as bad of an answer as you'll ever see. That's the kind of answer that should scare everyone thinking about drafting him.
On the flipside, I saw some draft analyst guy on ESPN mention that Edwards' acceleration graded out as the best that the sports science testers had measured out of 400 or so NBA prospects/players they had measured over the years. Combine that 1st step explosiveness with his big frame, great vertical, and potentially good shot and he's the guy who you almost have to take at #1 despite all his flaws.
There is much talk here about the difficulty in buying a high #2, but that the potential exists for getting high #2s in exchange for cash plus a future #2. The Knicks have a number of extra future late #1s and random #2s floating around. Do they really need 5 #1s and #2s in 2021? It is entirely possible that they have identified a couple of trade partners for one of those combinations. Go to Knicks section (duh). - ( New Window )
Edwards' answer about the NBA vs. NFL was about as bad of an answer as you'll ever see. That's the kind of answer that should scare everyone thinking about drafting him.
On the flipside, I saw some draft analyst guy on ESPN mention that Edwards' acceleration graded out as the best that the sports science testers had measured out of 400 or so NBA prospects/players they had measured over the years. Combine that 1st step explosiveness with his big frame, great vertical, and potentially good shot and he's the guy who you almost have to take at #1 despite all his flaws.
Wagner's son is the #1 HS player in his class. He is the same year as Lebron's son, who is ranked 20th.
Kelsey Russo
@kelseyyrusso
·
7m
The Cavs and Knicks have discussed trading the No. 5 pick for 8 and 23, but the Cavs are holding out for more, sources told
@TheAthleticNBA
. For reference, the Pelicans and Hawks swapped 4 for 8, 17 and 35, among other pieces, in a draft-day deal last year.
He's a good passer and slasher but without being a threat to knock down jumpers, it's unlikely that'll be effective in the NBA until/unless he improves there.
And Okoro make sense. Toppin doesn’t from a defensive perspective. We need two way players.
The players I want are Okoro, Halliburton, and Williams.
We should be able to stay at 8 and get one of those. Picking 8 is not a bad place to be in this draft.
RAIN - I understand what you are saying, but the Knicks already have 2 players in their projected starting lineup (Mitch and RJ) that can't shoot. They cannot add a 3rd player like Okoro or Williams that can't really shoot yet either. It is why I am so high on Kira/Nesmith and have really warmed up to Obi as well. I think he can be taught, wish he was 20 and not 22, but that is nitpicking.
Jake
@jakeweingarten
Source: The Toronto Raptors have tons of interest in selecting Louisville’s Jordan Nwora with the 29th pick. Tons of buzz surrounding them with him. He and Kyle Lowry share the same representation.
The thing with Obi is everything I've heard (including with Begley/Wasserman today) is he is viewed fairly positively across the league, which I would hope means he has some trade value going forward as needed.
I totally get and largely agree with the defensive criticism, but at this point we are not good enough to worry about things like would get targeted and picked apart in the Eastern finals. I am warming to him as he seems like he could be a plus offensive stretch four that has a feel for passing/playmaking and would fit with RJ and Mitch. If we use this year as one more tank year, started of something like DJ Augustin/Frank/RJ/Obi/Mitch would clearly be bad but at least fun and worth developing.
And Okoro make sense. Toppin doesn’t from a defensive perspective. We need two way players.
The players I want are Okoro, Halliburton, and Williams.
We should be able to stay at 8 and get one of those. Picking 8 is not a bad place to be in this draft.
RAIN - I understand what you are saying, but the Knicks already have 2 players in their projected starting lineup (Mitch and RJ) that can't shoot. They cannot add a 3rd player like Okoro or Williams that can't really shoot yet either. It is why I am so high on Kira/Nesmith and have really warmed up to Obi as well. I think he can be taught, wish he was 20 and not 22, but that is nitpicking.
Defense is something that cannot be taught. I believe shooting, if the base stroke is sound, is much easier to develop. Defense is a mind set. Knox comes to mind as someone that can’t stay on the floor because his defense is atrocious. His shooting and scoring are plus... but his flaws on the other end are fatal. You can’t develop that will to defend. I’d argue it harder to come by than shooting. . Both Okoro and Williams I think have that. Sound form, but need to develop theough reps.
That said, I get your point and it’s also logical but from the opposite direction. If Toppin can develop that will to defend, I’d be on board. I don’t think it’s that easy tho.
Kelsey Russo
@kelseyyrusso
·
7m
The Cavs and Knicks have discussed trading the No. 5 pick for 8 and 23, but the Cavs are holding out for more, sources told
@TheAthleticNBA
. For reference, the Pelicans and Hawks swapped 4 for 8, 17 and 35, among other pieces, in a draft-day deal last year.
I am fine teading up for toppin, but you better get randle off this team, Toppin needs to atart day 1
has us passing on Hayes and Vassell and taking Okoro and Cole anthony
One team executive told me Knicks head coach Tom Thibodeau has a “crush” on Okoro, which should come as no surprise considering their shared passion for defense. Okoro is arguably the best defender in the class, with strength and multi-positional versatility. Okoro does, however, need to improve his jump shot to realize his offensive potential. It’s unlikely that Toppin will still be on the board at this point, but if he is, he’ll be also in consideration.
good 4/5 pair. Like if Toppin is what many think he can be then pairing him with a guy like Mitch would be what you want.
But Yeah randle needs to be gone. They cant play together and ill go through the roof if Randle is logging 35 minutes a game while topping gets 12 and Thibs feeds us lines about vets.
in the 20's (if that is the pick he has us taken him with). ALthough does that mean he has Vessell going after that? I know he was awful last year and has a ton of questions, but he was expected to be a top 5 pick and had an injury riddled year on a bad unc team.
RE: Toppin and mitch actually seem like a really...
good 4/5 pair. Like if Toppin is what many think he can be then pairing him with a guy like Mitch would be what you want.
But Yeah randle needs to be gone. They cant play together and ill go through the roof if Randle is logging 35 minutes a game while topping gets 12 and Thibs feeds us lines about vets.
in the 20's (if that is the pick he has us taken him with). ALthough does that mean he has Vessell going after that? I know he was awful last year and has a ton of questions, but he was expected to be a top 5 pick and had an injury riddled year on a bad unc team.
They pass on Bane and Flynn at 23. I'd take them both over Anthony.
a concern for Toppin or it doesn't matter? Some people are nervous about his age but to me that's not an automatic red flag. It seems as if he's relatively polished which I guess is want you'd want to see from a 22-year-old. His numbers look good but what does concern me is that it doesn't look like he was really "dominating".
18 and 9 on 6-11 shooting against arguably the best team in the country. Richmond was a very solid team (knocked off Wisconsin, gave Auburn a tough game) and Toppin had 24 and 12 against them.
I wouldn't worry about his offense. It's legit. Is it good enough to more than make up for his defensive shortcomings though?
Exactly. Toppin will definitely score. The question is whether his
defensive assignment will also score a shit-ton each night and if he's a guy you can't play in the 4th Q of close games (like Kanter) because he will get relentlessly attacked down the stretch.
Thing is with Okoro and Vassell is that Vassell is good defensively
Stay at 8 and 23. There are plenty of good players to be had.
What is the obsession with power forwards?
Damn I look forward to moments like the draft and FA yet always disappointed
Dude was ranked as a top-10 before he got to Arizona, subsequently sucked and now is barely talked about.
I like Nico Mannion, but it’s hard to convince anyone that shot selection is why he shot under 40% from the field. Add in a lack of standout physical traits and poor defense, he probably should’ve gone back to school. But I do think he has talent and his shooting numbers will be better if a coach gets him under control.
The guy is so dynamic offensively, and on the defensive end he at least has active handstand gets deflections and some blocks and if there's someone who can turn him into an avg man on defender its Thibs. That having been said I want Lewis. He fits a dramatic need and has the highest overall ceiling of the guys in that pick range. I'd be on board with Hayes there too.
He's a terrific athlete, but he seems like he has a low BBIQ (especially for the son of a longtime NBA player) and attitude problems. If he gets his head on straight, he could turn into a steal, but I wouldn't want to bet on it happening.
Okoro is really the only pick that I will be unhappy with, I just don't see how he and RJ fit together. The biggest problem for Barrett last year was the team's poor spacing, he would consistently beat his man only to be met at the rim by 4 defenders. Adding Okoro, who plays Barrett's position, does nothing to help that.
At least a guy like Toppin will pull a big man out of the paint because you have to respect his perimeter shooting.
I and most everyone here agree that he's the one guy we don't like in that range. I agree that while I prefer the PG's, I can live with Vassell there because of his length, D, and shooting. At least he'd help with our abominable D and court spacing. We could address the pg at #23 or trade/FA
But if he's your main building block, and I have no reason to think they've soured on him, you have GOT to surround him with shooters to give him room to operate in the lane.
The only player worth 8 and 23 for me is Ball. Not because I'm personally sold on him, but because he's the one guy, if "all" goes well changes the Knicks fortunes in a way the other players in this draft likely cannot. That being said, I don't see any way 8 and 23 lands you Ball
also just said Patrick Williams has been mentioned.
Honestly they could go in one of 6 directions at this point and I wouldn't be surprised. Don't remember the last time it was like this.
Is Macri credible? Serious question
Macri is a friend of mine and he is credible, he has really built up his brand, something I am trying to do. However, I just emailed him that he needs to stop throwing every name out there and really stick to a guy he thinks they are going to take and make his prediction.
The only player worth 8 and 23 for me is Ball. Not because I'm personally sold on him, but because he's the one guy, if "all" goes well changes the Knicks fortunes in a way the other players in this draft likely cannot. That being said, I don't see any way 8 and 23 lands you Ball
I agree with you, but I can see why they want Toppin. He would be a good fit with Robinson and RJ. If you get a PG that can shoot and play Frank at the 2 or 3, you start to have something resembling a balanced line-up.
RE: Yep. I mean, it's no secret that I'm not a big Barrett fan
But if he's your main building block, and I have no reason to think they've soured on him, you have GOT to surround him with shooters to give him room to operate in the lane.
I get this POV and lean in the same direction, but I keep coming back to the SGA draft with Frank in the fold. If Knicks brass isn't sold on RJ yet and they love Okoro, then passing on Okoro because you have RJ is just compounding mistakes.
At a minimum will be a solid wing defender but it's all about the shot - will he be Jaylen Brown (a bad college shooter) or MKG (never developed in the pros)? Every guy from 1 down has warts which is why I don't think I'll get too worked up over whoever we take.
So this 33 yr old Tomic guy has to be some Brock Aller cap move
I don't think it impacts the cap at all. Usually you see these guys (players who will never play in the league) involved in trades where a team has send back *something* in return and doesn't want to send $$. But in this case, there was something tangible going back on both sides of the deal so I have no clue.
RE: So this 33 yr old Tomic guy has to be some Brock Aller cap move
you want to draft another defensive guy who can't shoot? We have that with Ntilikina.
How many times are we going to see Frank score 2 points in 23 minutes next year until we realize it's not worth it?
Been trying to make that point all day. The Knicks are not giving up on RJ for the chance to draft Okoro or Vassell. They need to draft with the mind-set of a balanced lineup. It is why I can see their interest in Toppin,.
you want to draft another defensive guy who can't shoot? We have that with Ntilikina.
How many times are we going to see Frank score 2 points in 23 minutes next year until we realize it's not worth it?
Been trying to make that point all day. The Knicks are not giving up on RJ for the chance to draft Okoro or Vassell. They need to draft with the mind-set of a balanced lineup. It is why I can see their interest in Toppin,.
Agreed, they probably think Toppin can help ASAP on the offensive end (which is probably true). His defense is just really really bad.
any college basketball in a while but agree with Greg's take here RE: RJ and what I've read about the prospects. I liked him more as a prospect, less after seeing him in the NBA. But he could still hit. But you need to surround him with shooters. Okoro seems like not a great fit for our team as currently constructed.
I will say this I'm not sure where the idea that it is easier to teach D comes from though. IMO when you look at the guys that really have improved their D a lot of it comes down to effort. Managing effort - Harden example where he needs to use more of his gas to balance his game. But plenty of "defensive specialists" have expanded their offense and become stars. I think as the game moves more towards shooting and analytics speak to the 3 point shot it's definitely something you can drill and per the 10,000 hour expert theory just get your motion down.
People that accel at defense almost always have that skill because of athleticism, which is the least teachable skill. Secondly, I would say scoring is the most fun thing to do, and some do it very naturally and aren't necessarily high effort players. Defense and effort go hand in hand. Finally, so much of defense is situational, feel, anticipation. Quick mental calculations that I think some aren't as good at or don't focus as much on. Offense is much more about your relationship to the hoop especially in NBA, the old, i'm going to take my shot and hit it and you have to adapt to me to stop me. The exception there is great ball handlers, that game is extremely mental however, there aren't that many players in the NBA that have handles that good.
Frank's. He's an elite athlete, good slasher and finisher, and a decent passer. He just can't shoot to save his life.
He's not my first choice but I'm not as vehemently against picking him as others here. They absolutely 100% need to add shooters this offseason but they can do it with their cap space too.
the problem is that Okoro's offensive strengths mirror Barrett's
Frank's. He's an elite athlete, good slasher and finisher, and a decent passer. He just can't shoot to save his life.
He's not my first choice but I'm not as vehemently against picking him as others here. They absolutely 100% need to add shooters this offseason but they can do it with their cap space too.
Marc Stein
@TheSteinLine
·
39s
There is a growing belief among rival teams that Atlanta will be in pole position for Danilo Gallinari and Rajon Rondo when free agency begins later this week, league sources say
As @NYTSports
reported on Oct. 28, Rondo is also poised to receive strong interest from the Clippers
If they would accept that deal from NYK, beautiful. Idk if they want Randle though. And if that means NYK really LOVE Ball and think he is a legit future AS PG, fine. I’m not a GM so I don’t know scouting like these pros do, but if so Ball had better hit! Mitch is more likely than Randle in a GSW trade....
that even if you can go out and add shooters you are at best going to have 2 good shooters in your lineup and 3 bad ones. Thats not really a recipe for success in todays NBA.
Matt Babcock
@MattBabcock11
·
13m
The Mavs and the Thunder are discussing a trade that would send Danilo Gallinari to Dallas in a sign-and-trade and the 18th pick to OKC, per sources.
Matt Babcock
@MattBabcock11
The Mavs and the Thunder are discussing a trade that would send Danilo Gallinari to Dallas in a sign-and-trade and the 18th pick to OKC, per sources.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
The Sixers are sending a lightly-protected 2025 first-round pick and the 34th overall pick in tonight's draft, sources tell ESPN. The Thunder are also sending Terrance Ferguson to the Sixers with Green
on horford for that. Not sure i really get that move. Also curious what Morey is trying to do.
If that Tobias contract was just like a year or so shorter id consider taking him with Korkmaz, #21 and our second back (we send back Randle and filler). Harris would be a good fit with this team and is still fairly young. But MAN that contract is awful.
Or are we focusing on non-core guys Frank, whom may not be here much longer? Or Knox, whom plays the four and can't play Defense like Randle, and Toppin?
My point, you guys are focusing on pieces that aren't long term solutions. Knox can shoot it. Can't play D, or defend the 3/4. Similar to Randle. Can score but not defend. Toppin is 22. Okoro is 19.Your not building your team for next year. Your building it looking past 2021.
I'm making bets on people that contribute on both ends of the floor, while developing the jumper. I don't know a lot of players that come into the league shooting a high % from the outside and are complete players. Okoro would be well out of our Range if he was polished shooter and go before Edwards. His jumper form is more projectable than Lamelo's.
we are talking about Mitch (not a shooter) and RJ (not a shooter). Those are the guys we are building our team around right now. So the first 3 pieces of your team are all non shooters. Look if the Knicks think that Okoro is head and shoulders the best player then fine, just on paper he doesnt seem like the best fit with RJ and Mitch.
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
Warriors star Klay Thompson suffered an apparent lower leg injury today and is undergoing tests to determine severity, sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA
Jonathan Wasserman
@NBADraftWass
·
20s
Hearing Isaac Okoro has risen high on the Cavaliers board. Any motivation to swap with the Knicks would be tied to Cleveland's interest/ability to get Okoro at 8.
Jonathan Wasserman
@NBADraftWass
·
20s
Hearing Isaac Okoro has risen high on the Cavaliers board. Any motivation to swap with the Knicks would be tied to Cleveland's interest/ability to get Okoro at 8.
So basically if NYK moved up to 5, Cleveland really may also want Okoro hence they want more than 8+23? NYK should sit back and take Vassell at 8 and still have a pick at 23, or maybe Tobbin falls to 8 and they don’t have to trade up.
Chris Fedor
@ChrisFedor
It sure seems like teams are operating under the impression that Deni Avdija is going 4th to Chicago. That's why #Cavs would be willing to move down. Why Knicks would trade up to 5, believing Cavs wouldn't let Obi Toppin get to 8. Why Detroit has considered moving up (Williams)
to make moves that are poor value, lol. I had been talking myself into Obi as good value if he fell to 8, but to give up all our picks for him sux. I was excited about adding 3 solid players today and now we could add one player who im not that thrilled about.
My friends mom sent her up on a date with him years ago. Apparently, he's a very nice guy with a good sense of humor. They never went on a second date.
Bates, Holmgren, Wembanyama... all 3 go 1/1 this year.
That draft is gonna be insane. I was really impressed by both Holmgren and Bates in their game last week. Holmgren is another unicorn and Bates plays like a pro despite being a child.
motor and work ethic, but they won't be in our range so no sense debating them. After that, Toppin is the most likely to contribute in the league. He'll be a 20 ppg scorer for sure, you can't say that about anyone else. None of the PG prospects are guaranteed to even become a George Hill. I don't see anyone with that elite quickness and explosion you need at the PG position. And how do you know LaMelo will be better than Lonzo or Shaun Livingston? How do you know any of the 3-and-D guys will be better than Mikal Bridges? Okoro could be another Stanley Johnson for all we know.
Again, everything is a crapshoot, hopefully we'll have better luck with this regime. I'd be happy with Toppin at 5.
I admittedly don't pay much attention at all to foreign prospects. He sounds kind of like a poor man's Ben Simmons. Big, skilled passer, weak shooter, average athlete. What's his upside?
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
16s
New York has long been excited that Dayton's Obi Toppin might drop to them at No. 8, sources tell ESPN. He's almost there.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
16s
New York has long been excited that Dayton's Obi Toppin might drop to them at No. 8, sources tell ESPN. He's almost there.
Toppin can't play defense to save his life. Maybe Thibs can coach him up
the epitome of a winning player. He's a good defender, unselfish to a fault, no ego at all, can shoot when open, young....but people forget that he's just not very good at playing basketball.
i mean I would have preferred Haliburton or Avdija but at 8 this is not a bad pick. He has just as good of a chance of being a star as anyone outside of the top 3 (and maybe including the top 3). Had they traded up i would have been pissied, but this is fine.
I'll keep an open mind heading into the season. This might be an omen for Westbrook though. But Obi starting alongside Mitch and RJ works for me. Please just get rid of Randle already!
The right comparison is actually a much older school player: Larry Nance
Nance was a pretty good defender though. I can def see the similarities in terms of finishing.
Hopefully his defense is up to par. He should atleast provide some excitement for Knicks fans. RJ Barrett/Obi/Mitch... the Knicks are forming an identity of a team that could potentially be really good at scoring inside, but they need their outside shooting to be good enough to allow them that opportunity. Barrett getting a jumper remains the key.
thing you can say about Obi, is he can probably be a team's 2rd or probably 3rd scorer on a really good team. Not a ton of guys in this draft could say that. Edwards...maybe that's it?
The right comparison is actually a much older school player: Larry Nance
Nance was a pretty good defender though. I can def see the similarities in terms of finishing.
Hopefully his defense is up to par. He should atleast provide some excitement for Knicks fans. RJ Barrett/Obi/Mitch... the Knicks are forming an identity of a team that could potentially be really good at scoring inside, but they need their outside shooting to be good enough to allow them that opportunity. Barrett getting a jumper remains the key.
Interestingly enough RJ may actually have the worst jumper out of all 3 of those guys.
The almost 100% of people clamoring that the top of this draft was not one to give up assets to move up in were dead on balls accurate.
Yep the one guaranteed thing in life in pro sports drafts is that when all the reporters say its gonna be a wild night of trades, there are virtually none...
A versatile defender and good 3p shooter, feels complimentary in both directions between RJ and Toppin.
Would've loved Bey had we not taken Toppin. We need backcourt help desperately.
I don’t see a game changing point guard worth forcing something at 23 right now. A safe 3-and-D contributor is a welcome add for any team but a real need on this NYK roster right now.
The Nets don’t want that Bey pick there. Dude is a perfect fit next to 2 max players. He’ll drill the open shot, play defense and rebound, and keep his mouth shut.
I want Flynn big time but I don't think they're gonna take him
Me too, he’s a gamer. I don’t love his shot, but he has size, some wiggle and can defend. RJ Hampton also tempting. Terry is undersized, but has been compared to Steph Curry, so that’s nice.
Need someone who can break a defense down off the dribble and shoot the ball.
Remember: Kenny Payne coached Immanuel Quickley last year at Kentucky, and Quickley gets absolutely rave reviews from any source you talk to about him as a kid. Not surprised at all the Knicks wanted him. Had him locked in at 38 for a while.
Im taking this back. I don't know much about Quickley. I did want Terry or Bane but it sounds like Quickley can bring some of the same stuff to the table.
My understanding is Immanuel Quickley won a number of teams over with remarkable shooting displays in private workouts over the past month. The Kentucky connections within the Knicks’ front office and coaching staff certainly mattered. NY betting on his intangibles and jumper.
My understanding is Immanuel Quickley won a number of teams over with remarkable shooting displays in private workouts over the past month. The Kentucky connections within the Knicks’ front office and coaching staff certainly mattered. NY betting on his intangibles and jumper.
He can shoot it and play defense, that’s what they need. I hope they keep 33 and get another PG. Tre Jones, Terry, and Cassius Winston are still available. Still surprised they didn’t take RJ Hampton.
Quickley was a top 20 recruit, but definitely more of a shooter than
McDonald’s All-American, SEC player of the year as a sophomore, 6’10” wingspan, 92% free throw shooter, and Payne obviously vouched for him. Finally, a pure shooter.
But it seems like Terry is far and away the best player available at this point
That draft nerd Kevin O’Conner had Terry ranked 8th in this draft. The NBA is such a crap shoot. And why can’t they certify these trades so we know who’s drafting, it’s so stupid.
At 33, Knicks take Minnesota big man Daniel Oturu. He's a nice player who improved his outside shooting as season wore on. Would've taken Vernon Carey Jr. if he fell 1 more slot.
Marc Berman
@NYPost_Berman
·
1m
At 33, Knicks take Minnesota big man Daniel Oturu. He's a nice player who improved his outside shooting as season wore on. Would've taken Vernon Carey Jr. if he fell 1 more slot.
LAC owned the Pistons 2023 2nd - this now makes more sense. As I've pointed out a bunch the Knicks had seven picks this year and next. Cant roster everyone. They needed to consolidate somehow. One way is to move picks for future ones. Pick likely to be in front end of 2nd round
Not sure I agree.
You gotta think either Russ or FVV are gonna be a Knick soon
LAC owned the Pistons 2023 2nd - this now makes more sense. As I've pointed out a bunch the Knicks had seven picks this year and next. Cant roster everyone. They needed to consolidate somehow. One way is to move picks for future ones. Pick likely to be in front end of 2nd round
Not sure I agree.
schmeelk doesn't know what he's talking about. This is not a smart move.
LAC owned the Pistons 2023 2nd - this now makes more sense. As I've pointed out a bunch the Knicks had seven picks this year and next. Cant roster everyone. They needed to consolidate somehow. One way is to move picks for future ones. Pick likely to be in front end of 2nd round
Not sure I agree.
Or draft and stash a foreigner you like the upside of
That they targeted the Duke kid picked at 32. When he was taken they bailed on the pick. Detroit’s second rounder will be in the same neighborhood next year, not the end of the world if they didn’t like anyone.
Ans I have no interest in Westbrook. What about Randle, Payton and the 2023 second rd pick for Mike Conley expiring in utah. Gives Knicks a vet pg for a year and then figure out PG nex year?
The minimum age for the NBA draft is being reduced from 19 to 18 in 2022. Thus, you’ll have the last crop of “one and done” players in the draft that year AND the newly eligible top high school players who otherwise would have been in the 2023 draft.
“I learned a lot about Coach through this pandemic,’’ Toppin said of Thibodeau. “I understand he’s a defensive coach, and that’s one of my biggest things I need to work on. He’s going to make sure that I lock in and make sure that I become great one day. I feel like if I get that defensive scheme down, I’m going to be a really good player one day, a really great player one day.’’
Knicks also likely have Dallas' first rounder in 2023
double draft: 2022 or 2023? - ( New Window )
From what I read the NBA isn't changing that rule at all. There is a discrepancy with medicals that the players will not give up. Maybe this gets resolved but as of now it sounds like a stalemate.
was trade an early second for a future (hopefully) early second. Did i think there were players on the board worth taking, sure, but if they didnt then i guess it makes some sense. Would have liked it to be 2 future seconds though, lol.
Curious to see what we do next. Can they somehow move randle? Do we go FVV or find a cheaper starting vet pg somewhere. Do we make any big signings at all. Outside of FVV i dont really see anyone worth big money. Wood makes zero sense now. Id still like to see them make a run at Hayward.
Or, the premise is wrong, and he was not the "best?"
And/or, it wasn't really a drop to get Obi Toppin at #8?
Any thoughts much appreciated!
1. he is 22, NBA gms are obsessed with upside..
2. His Defense is suspect, but if he just becomes an average defender hr is an all star and if his defense was better he would of been a consensus 1st overall pick..
RE: Clearly the Knicks thought the future pick was better than
Russ makes even less sense. You want to allow RJ and Toppin to develop there offensive games. Getting a guy who will dominate the ball 90% of the time does not help them do that. Its the same reason i dont want a black hole like Randle on the team (on top of not wanting him to take minutes).
Has anyone taken the time to try to find an offensive starved team with a similarly ehh contract like Randles who might want to swap a guy.
RE: The market for FVV now is basically Knicks and Raptors
I still kinda think the Raptors will pay him. And Lamelo going to CHA would indicate no Russ for them.
So, if the Knicks want to pay FVV and the Raps don't they should get him.
If the Knicks want Russ, they can wait and see if HOU is gonna ditch him at a discount.
What's not clear to me is what they do if neither of them work out. What PG can we get? Maybe Conley?
I want nothing to do with Westbrook. There is just so much not to like about that fit from the insane contract to not making others around him better. If we want a one man show and want to put asses in the seats then go for it. But if you want this team to develop, buy into defense, and maintain cap flexibility then Westbrook makes no sense. It is way too shortsighted.
I still kinda think the Raptors will pay him. And Lamelo going to CHA would indicate no Russ for them.
So, if the Knicks want to pay FVV and the Raps don't they should get him.
If the Knicks want Russ, they can wait and see if HOU is gonna ditch him at a discount.
What's not clear to me is what they do if neither of them work out. What PG can we get? Maybe Conley?
I want nothing to do with Westbrook. There is just so much not to like about that fit from the insane contract to not making others around him better. If we want a one man show and want to put asses in the seats then go for it. But if you want this team to develop, buy into defense, and maintain cap flexibility then Westbrook makes no sense. It is way too shortsighted.
I don't agree with Westbrook not making others better. He's no Chris Paul in that way, but he led the league in assists and averaged 10+ assists for his last 4 years in OKC. He's still a great player. The contract is terrible, for sure. I'd prefer FVV, if he wants to leave TOR, but if HOU is giving Westbrook away at a discount, I'd definitely entertain bringing him here.
that the knicks were prepared to deal 23 and 2021 Dallas 1st rounder to Boston to take Kira last night. If they had been able to pull that off, would have been an A+ draft.
Van Vleet makes so much sense for this team. I'll be pretty mad if they don't throw a big contract at him.
- 26 years old
- winning championship player. Never been on a losing team.
- Can play the point or off the ball seamlessly.
- elite 3pt shooter.
- excellent on ball and team defender.
What is the risk of offering him a big deal? They only competition they seem to have is Toronto and maybe Detroit. Make him take less from Toronto or make Toronto match a big deal.
If you want to compare him to Russ- the problems are fit, contract, age, and defense. You can probably get FVV at 15-25 million less a year and not have to give up a single asset for him.
Van Vleet makes so much sense for this team. I'll be pretty mad if they don't throw a big contract at him.
- 26 years old
- winning championship player. Never been on a losing team.
- Can play the point or off the ball seamlessly.
- elite 3pt shooter.
- excellent on ball and team defender.
What is the risk of offering him a big deal? They only competition they seem to have is Toronto and maybe Detroit. Make him take less from Toronto or make Toronto match a big deal.
If you want to compare him to Russ- the problems are fit, contract, age, and defense. You can probably get FVV at 15-25 million less a year and not have to give up a single asset for him.
VanVleet can be had if the Knicks go all out for him.
Raptors won't go max.
Moving Randle will be harder.
I don’t know much about him, but he doesn’t seem to be that good. Why are they keeping him? Yes depth but how much would they save had they cut him? Also don’t think Thibs is the type of coach who would be happy if they didn’t do something for a huge improvement this season.
for 0 assets is a significantly better option than Russ for Assets. Age, playmaking, injury history, defense, all in favor of Van Vleet.
I agree. I just wonder if the Raptors decide to pay him and keep him to play along Siakam when Lowry is gone. This is the last year of Lowry's contract. I guess it's possible that they don't pay him. But if the money is equal, you'd have to think he stays in TOR.
I don’t know much about him, but he doesn’t seem to be that good. Why are they keeping him? Yes depth but how much would they save had they cut him? Also don’t think Thibs is the type of coach who would be happy if they didn’t do something for a huge improvement this season.
He's a solid nba player on a pretty good deal at 4 M. Would have been 1M if they cut him. So, keeping him as an expiring for 3M more is a no brainer, IMO
He's a legit shooter for $4m. You definitely keep that. As long as he's healthy he could easily net you an asset from a team looking for shooting at the deadline.
RE: RE: If Obi Toppin was the best college B-ball player
Or, the premise is wrong, and he was not the "best?"
And/or, it wasn't really a drop to get Obi Toppin at #8?
Any thoughts much appreciated!
1. he is 22, NBA gms are obsessed with upside..
2. His Defense is suspect, but if he just becomes an average defender hr is an all star and if his defense was better he would of been a consensus 1st overall pick..
exactly this. GMs like him, but top of draft their is an obsession with age and upside, and his defense a known ?. so like for the cavs, who have no defense and are lacking toughness- the preference was the young player with upside then the higher floor guy (who btw still has a lot of upside so i find it a bit silly)
The Defense is definitely a concern, but he is also saying the right things about wanting to put in the effort to improve in that area. I also appreciate that the Knicks are not just looking at who is the best now and trying to project what a player may become.
But realistically they have nothing but time. They're starting from nothing and don't even have a foundation. They're not just going to be a winner in 3 years.
The Giants had to rebuild their whole program. So do the Knicks.
then some of the other lottery teams. They are capable of attracting big time stars and extending them, but no one is coming if there aren't pieces around them. I think its a sound strategy to go for high floor, faster developing draft picks rather than more likely to fail projects for this reason. Knicks need to get themselves to where the Nets were in 2019 - competitive team with some pieces, and the financial flexibility to take on potential stars.
Teams like the TWolves and Cavs need to build from within - no one is coming to rescue them. Obviously no one has come to rescue the Knicks in the past decade we've been caught in this cycle since The Decision, but there's always been better options for wayward stars.
5 years to be good. Who the hell cares if Toppin is 22. Tired of waiting for 18 and 19 year olds to amount to nothing (like Frank).
Yeah, there was a noticeable shift in philosophy. Toppin can start and contribute day one, and Quickley can come off the bench and contribute day one. No projects or draft-and-stashes, just two guys who can play.
I hated the idea of trading up for Toppin, but he was a no-brainer pick at eight.
Big difference IMO between trading up to get him and taking him at 8. Reality is ever year and particularly this year, you are not getting a perfect prospect at 8. Toppin seems likely to contribute and have value even if he isn't someone who is perfect.
Toppin was the right pick, although the Israeli kid was interesting. I never got the sense the Knicks were interested in Killian Hayes or Tyrese Halliburton. I don't think they really scouted the Israeli kid as he was supposed to go higher and everybody in NY would have thought he was going to be Luca, when he is more Darko Saric.
I am interested to see Toppin and I actually think he will be a candidate for rookie of the year, because of his offense and playing time. They just need to unload Julius Randle and fast.
I'm intrigued by the Kentucky kid, because if you think about the guards that they have recently produced such as hero and Murray, there is a chance this kid could be something and we need shooting. Cal was raving about this guy more than Maxey.
want to come....I think you just gotta go with Payton and Frank again at PG. They're probably the worst PG rotation in the league, but I'd rather just be patient and wait for a real solution as opposed to something crazy like Russ. Maybe you get a team looking to dump a vet's salary (Conley?) for a pick. Besides that,
Ignoring Westbrook (like I hope we do), I feel like our starting PG will either be FVV or DJ Augustine. The latter is a fine stopgap for me - can organize an offense, solid 3 pt shooter, and experience with Thibs.
somewhat agree, but the problem is that they've taken 2 players in the top 10 since 2017 that haven't worked out. I don't want to call his career but Knox doesn't look like he's going to pan out. The Frank pick speaks for itself.
Barrett was a nice restart in taking the right player. I think Toppin was another wise choice. They hired a defensive minded coach who hopefully can get them to start looking functional defensively.
If they sign a guy like FVV, they aren't that far away from being a playoff team. You get Randle off the books in 2021, sign another good FA and now we're talking.
to say it but I think the draft increased the likelihood of trading for Russ. Player that excels on the fast break in Toppin and a guard who supplements Russ's skillset almost perfectly in Quickley.
point guards on their roster. Ball, Bledsoe, Hill, Alexander-Walker and now Kira Lewis. Could be a good trade partner if the Knicks decide to go the trade route for a pg.
If they let go of all of their non guaranteed players, besides bullock, you know they are going to be agressive
I think Taj, Payton, and Ellington might be kept to actually be on the team this season. If they keep Portis...it's gotta be because they have a larger trade in mind.
both Taj and Payton staying. Thibs will want some vet experience and guys who can play defense to start the season as he eases in the younger guys to his program.
RE: RE: We will know how agressive the Knicks plan to be by 3pm today
If they let go of all of their non guaranteed players, besides bullock, you know they are going to be agressive
I think Taj, Payton, and Ellington might be kept to actually be on the team this season. If they keep Portis...it's gotta be because they have a larger trade in mind.
I could see them letting taj go and then resign him to a smaller contract
RE: I wonder if there's an option 4 and maybe the Knicks could get
Toppin was the right pick, although the Israeli kid was interesting. I never got the sense the Knicks were interested in Killian Hayes or Tyrese Halliburton. I don't think they really scouted the Israeli kid as he was supposed to go higher and everybody in NY would have thought he was going to be Luca, when he is more Darko Saric.
I am interested to see Toppin and I actually think he will be a candidate for rookie of the year, because of his offense and playing time. They just need to unload Julius Randle and fast.
I'm intrigued by the Kentucky kid, because if you think about the guards that they have recently produced such as hero and Murray, there is a chance this kid could be something and we need shooting. Cal was raving about this guy more than Maxey.
I liked the Toppin pick, but really was hoping for Halliburton at that spot. But once Cleveland passed on Toppin, knew there was no way Knicks were passing up Toppin. Don't know much about Quickley, but was hoping Knicks stayed at 23 and took either Hampton or Desmond Bane. Still don't understand trading away that second round pick, when a guy like Nico Mannion was still on the board. We'll see how it all works out
RE: I wonder if there's an option 4 and maybe the Knicks could get
Knicks need to be really be active over the next couple weeks to build a roster.
They have to move Randle and either DSJ or Frank.
Add a solid vet PG to help to develop RJ,Robinson,and Toppin.
Quickley is more of a 2 in the NBA and they need shooters and that's what he is.
I like the draft but FA is going to make the difference
Knicks need to be really be active over the next couple weeks to build a roster.
They have to move Randle and either DSJ or Frank.
Add a solid vet PG to help to develop RJ,Robinson,and Toppin.
Quickley is more of a 2 in the NBA and they need shooters and that's what he is.
I like the draft but FA is going to make the difference
Knicks need to be really be active over the next couple weeks to build a roster.
They have to move Randle and either DSJ or Frank.
Add a solid vet PG to help to develop RJ,Robinson,and Toppin.
Quickley is more of a 2 in the NBA and they need shooters and that's what he is.
I like the draft but FA is going to make the difference
I would be very upset if they kept Payton, there was definitely a lot of buzz last season that he and Randle tried to freeze out RJ. I think that eased up later in the season, but they need to let him go.
I am in the minority here as I don't want Van Vleet, I just feel he is a bit of a product of the Raptors system and he is also injury prone. I think he is good where he is. Also, he is not a true penetrating PG.
I agree with a poster that the draft and some other things that went on last night increase the chances of Russ coming here. Again, I hate that idea.
The Pelicans are really getting on my nerves, drafting Kira was so indulgent on their part with 4 other PGs on their roster. I think sometimes Griffin just gets ahead of himself thinking he is the smartest guy in the world and the joy of screwing up other teams. I wish the Knicks would thrown an insane offer sheet at Brandon Ingram.
I believe the starting PG for the Knicks next season will be DJ Augustine or Jeff Teague.
Mike Schmitz from ESPN does this series and has good film walkthroughs showing highs and lows of prospects with the prospect. Here's the video of Toppin, I've watched it before and it's a good one. Smart and likable kid.
i see you included RJ and 3 firsts so that makes it a bit more of a deal. But again the Wiz dont really seem interested in trading Beal, the media seems interested in the Wiz trading Beal
we should explore the possibility of buying low on the other Ball brother. Change of scenery after being dealt from the Lakers could motivate him. There's untapped potential w/ Lonzo.
Mike Schmitz from ESPN does this series and has good film walkthroughs showing highs and lows of prospects with the prospect. Here's the video of Toppin, I've watched it before and it's a good one. Smart and likable kid. Link - ( New Window )
That was really annoying. Schmitz doesn't shut up. He just talks and talks and talks and then is like, "Is that right?" Yes, Obi got to discuss some stuff but it was like a lawyer leading the witness. Obi came across very well. I appreciate the video though.
Mike Schmitz from ESPN does this series and has good film walkthroughs showing highs and lows of prospects with the prospect. Here's the video of Toppin, I've watched it before and it's a good one. Smart and likable kid. Link - ( New Window )
That was really annoying. Schmitz doesn't shut up. He just talks and talks and talks and then is like, "Is that right?" Yes, Obi got to discuss some stuff but it was like a lawyer leading the witness. Obi came across very well. I appreciate the video though.
ESPN rolled him out there as the younger hip basketball version of Mel Kiper jr. wasn't that impressed with Schmitz at all last night. If you look at his late mocks, he was way off. The ESPN coverage last night sucked peiod and I'm not usually a comlainer of draft coverage. Way too little reporters like Woj and Wind and way too much Bilas and Jay Williams and their power conference love.
Mike Schmitz from ESPN does this series and has good film walkthroughs showing highs and lows of prospects with the prospect. Here's the video of Toppin, I've watched it before and it's a good one. Smart and likable kid. Link - ( New Window )
That was really annoying. Schmitz doesn't shut up. He just talks and talks and talks and then is like, "Is that right?" Yes, Obi got to discuss some stuff but it was like a lawyer leading the witness. Obi came across very well. I appreciate the video though.
ESPN rolled him out there as the younger hip basketball version of Mel Kiper jr. wasn't that impressed with Schmitz at all last night. If you look at his late mocks, he was way off. The ESPN coverage last night sucked peiod and I'm not usually a comlainer of draft coverage. Way too little reporters like Woj and Wind and way too much Bilas and Jay Williams and their power conference love.
I agree, thought ESPN coverage was terrible. They all seemed to ignore the fact that Tyrese Haliburton is not a true PG, because he was a good kid. Also, they did a terrible job with the trades, they need a solution for that so we all know who is picking. Woj was also really off his game, he seemed confused.
was there was like no analysis. Everything felt rushed and they had to interview every pick so he could say the same thing, then give us some touching story and then 30 seconds analysis. Rinse repeat
was awful. They don't debate picks anymore, there's no nuanced basketball discussion they basically turned all the interviews into GMA. Let's ask him about some terrible thing that happened in his life and get the audience to cry.
that's not what NBA fans want to see. I want to see bilas and someone arguing about the player fit on the team he was picked by. It was so boring.
There was one point the host asked a legit question. Now, I personally hate predictions, rankings, etc. It is all bullshit opinions. I don't care for it. However, the question was asked which under the radar player has the upside of a super star? Ok, that is good. Morons like me who don't know these players can get a better understanding from the "experts".
All they did was bitch and moan about the question. We aren't madame cleo. Super star? There are only like 7 super stars in the NBA. If we knew that they would have went higher in the draft.
I mean what the fuck was that? Just name some fuckin players with high upside. Holy shit.
Steve Popper
@StevePopper
Newsday has learned Knicks are waiving Elfrid Payton and Kenny Wooten and not picking up option on Bobby Portis. Also, no qualifying offer for Damyean Dotson, who is an unrestricted FA now. More decisions to come...
Steve Popper
@StevePopper
Newsday has learned Knicks are waiving Elfrid Payton and Kenny Wooten and not picking up option on Bobby Portis. Also, no qualifying offer for Damyean Dotson, who is an unrestricted FA now. More decisions to come...
Yep I am a tad surprised considering that he didn't exactly make a tremendous amount of money relatively. Could just be an issue that they felt that they had enough PF's on the roster and they are giving Wooten the courtesy of getting on the market now versus after teams have started signing players.
Happy to see them cleaning house. Shows you how disastrous last offseason really was.
I hope I am wrong but it doesn't sound like the Knicks are frontrunners for Van Vleet. Begley and Berman seem to think the Knicks aren't all in on him. From Berman
"But NBA sources have long indicated VanVleet may not be the maximum contract-type of player to come along and change a franchise’s direction single-handedly. As much as the Knicks like him, they also are aware he’s probably best off on a club already established."
Terrible. I wish him a strong recovery. One of the most unique players in recent history, nobody goes nuclear quite like Klay. I've always thought if there was one guy who could challenge Wilt's 100 points record, it would be him. I hope we still see a few more Nuclear Klay games in the future, but this is going to be tough to bounce back from.
Yeah I get the sense that they're not high enough on FVV
to make the kind of offer that Toronto would hesitate to match. Toronto also seems confident that they'll keep him but I guess we'll find out tomorrow/Saturday. Other than FVV, there aren't too many other exciting FA's. Maybe they make a run at Hayward or Joe Harris but if it's not FVV then I would imagine they'll be more active on the trade market than FA.
and saying hey we can sign Hayward outright, but if you take randle, we will throw in a future 1st
I was thinking about this earlier but if you're Boston, why not take Randle straight up? Most of his money isn't guaranteed after this year anyways and he's a useful player for them off the bench. It's not like they'll have cap space to improve the roster if Hayward walks for nothing anyways.
and saying hey we can sign Hayward outright, but if you take randle, we will throw in a future 1st
I was thinking about this earlier but if you're Boston, why not take Randle straight up? Most of his money isn't guaranteed after this year anyways and he's a useful player for them off the bench. It's not like they'll have cap space to improve the roster if Hayward walks for nothing anyways.
This conversation is more about Kemba, I have a feeling. Boston wants some assets to get Harden.
guy was going toe to toe with the Warriors. played incredibly well.
So all based on Game 6 3 point shooting. Got it.
What exactly do you not like about FVV?
I'd say he's a fine complimentary piece and the Knicks need winning basketball players, but I just don't understand clamoring or breaking the bank for an average or slightly above average player.
RE: RE: RE: did you not watch the 2019 NBA Finals?
guy was going toe to toe with the Warriors. played incredibly well.
So all based on Game 6 3 point shooting. Got it.
What exactly do you not like about FVV?
I know not directed at me, but I have been outspoken on FVV. I like him a lot, but he benefits from the Toronto system. He is not a true penetrating PG and definitely not work the max that it will take to get him. We have to stop overpaying guys and FVV would be a overpay. The only FA worth the money this year are Anthony Davis (Not getting him) and Brandon Ingram (restricted and Griffin rather give up his first born then let the Knicks get Ingram)
More than likely will be traded somewhere so that in essence will open up $19M more in cap space UNLESS that $40M being discussed includes Randle $19M?
think the Knicks are going to be very active in the trade market. It's hard to see Randle being here come opening day, and equally hard to picture Frank/DSJ being the starting PG.
There's a blues song to be made re: having 40 mil to spend and no one to spend it on.
Is not a penetrating point guard? I mean he's not Steph Curry but the guy can get in the lane and distribute. Is he a perfect player? No but he could really help the Knicks in many different ways. And what are the other options? You guys are also massively underselling his flexibility on offense and his defensive skillset.
You want to wait around for Anthony Davis or a similar caliber player to use your cap space? You'll be waiting a long time. And if lightning strikes and one of those superstars does decide to come to NY, you will always be able to move FVV- the guy is 26.
Lastly the Knicks are clearly not going to use their cap space to acquire picks or facilitate trades with sweeteners. That has been made pretty clear.
With all this room I can’t help but wonder if we’ll make a run at Bogdonovich as an RFA. I wonder if the sign and trade with the Bucks fell through because someone told his agent he’d get more than the roughly 15 he signed for this year.
think the Knicks are going to be very active in the trade market. It's hard to see Randle being here come opening day, and equally hard to picture Frank/DSJ being the starting PG.
There's a blues song to be made re: having 40 mil to spend and no one to spend it on.
I think there is a chance they see Randle as an expiring asset for the next deadline day disgruntled star trade. I'm bracing for him to be dazzling us with spinning into double teams right up until Feb.
RE: Someone help me out. Harkless & Dotson were listed
as FAs w/cap holds Dotson @$3M & Harkless @$16.5M Dotson was waived. Does Harkless money count against the cap as it's listed as a cap hold?
No, Dotson could've been tendered and then would be a RFA whereas Harkless those are just his bird rights that the Knicks could retain but can renounce at any time (which they almost certainly will). Dotson and the others from today had deadlines on those decisions due today.
think the Knicks are going to be very active in the trade market. It's hard to see Randle being here come opening day, and equally hard to picture Frank/DSJ being the starting PG.
There's a blues song to be made re: having 40 mil to spend and no one to spend it on.
I think there is a chance they see Randle as an expiring asset for the next deadline day disgruntled star trade. I'm bracing for him to be dazzling us with spinning into double teams right up until Feb.
He has to be traded before opening night
RE: RE: Someone help me out. Harkless & Dotson were listed
as FAs w/cap holds Dotson @$3M & Harkless @$16.5M Dotson was waived. Does Harkless money count against the cap as it's listed as a cap hold?
No, Dotson could've been tendered and then would be a RFA whereas Harkless those are just his bird rights that the Knicks could retain but can renounce at any time (which they almost certainly will). Dotson and the others from today had deadlines on those decisions due today.
think the Knicks are going to be very active in the trade market. It's hard to see Randle being here come opening day, and equally hard to picture Frank/DSJ being the starting PG.
There's a blues song to be made re: having 40 mil to spend and no one to spend it on.
I think there is a chance they see Randle as an expiring asset for the next deadline day disgruntled star trade. I'm bracing for him to be dazzling us with spinning into double teams right up until Feb.
You don’t draft a soon to be 23 year old Toppin to not start. Unless the plans is to have Toppin at SF, RJ SG and a PG, Randle being here doesn’t make sense.
what a dumb signing he was. Id love to trade him for an equivalent salary but a different style. Id trade him to CHA for Cody Zeller. Let Zeller backup mitch.
what a dumb signing he was. Id love to trade him for an equivalent salary but a different style. Id trade him to CHA for Cody Zeller. Let Zeller backup mitch.
I don't disagree, but what I see is this. With Taj gone (the only cut that surprised me a little), Randle is the only one on the roster besides Mitch who plays C. In addition, Randle is a Kentucky guy and (at least if you believe the Post) that's a factor on the Knicks at the moment.
Hahn was intimating on Twitter last night that he could see us going
Was that pushed back so they can trade him prior to FA tomorrow night? If he opts out he is a UFA? What happens if he is traded prior? Can whatever team he gets traded to in theory trade for him and lose him for 0?
Was that pushed back so they can trade him prior to FA tomorrow night? If he opts out he is a UFA? What happens if he is traded prior? Can whatever team he gets traded to in theory trade for him and lose him for 0?
My read on the situation is that yes, it was so they can trade him and get something in return rather than him leaving for nothing. He'd have to opt-in and then be traded or opt-in and agree to an extension. I don't think he can be traded and then opt-out from his new team.
Every single time I've watched him I've come away thoroughly unimpressed. Very average basketball player.
Did you watch the playoffs? He practically dragged the Raptors to a deep run..
Apparently we watched a different playoffs. He had good production given his role in the raptors system which benefits him significantly. He still does not penetrate or distribute that well and is a very average player in my opinion. I just don't get the allure.
is definitely going to end with 3/90 for Hayward and a Russ-RJ-Hayward-Obi-Mitch lineup. Probably good enough for the 7 seed until Russ and Hayward's knees explode and land on Uranus and Saturn respectively
for Hayward to consider the Knicks unless we're giving him a fat contract. Or his agent is trying to use the Knicks as fake leverage. I'd love to get Hayward at something like 3/90 but we're the Knicks, so you know it's going to be 4/120 or even more.
And the front office must view Barrett long term as a SG if they’re going hard for Hayward. He must up his FT% if that’s the case. Can’t be a slasher plus take some jumpers if you can’t make FT. Randle is a must trade how.
Vincent Goodwill
@VinceGoodwill
The Minnesota Timberwolves have made guard Malik Beasley available in discussions, and the New York Knicks are one of several interested teams, according to sources. He averaged 20 after being traded from Denver to Minnesota last season
RE: I liked the Hayward fit a lot more prior to the Toppin pick.
Pistons and Kings. But the Knicks and Hawks have the most by far.
I'm not opposed to Hayward. He's only 30 and can still be a really good all around player. But if you have a lineup of Russ, RJ, Hayward, Toppin and Mitch or worse Randle- they are going to get torched defensively.
It would worry me that Boston is letting him walk though...
Pistons and Kings. But the Knicks and Hawks have the most by far.
I'm not opposed to Hayward. He's only 30 and can still be a really good all around player. But if you have a lineup of Russ, RJ, Hayward, Toppin and Mitch or worse Randle- they are going to get torched defensively.
It would worry me that Boston is letting him walk though...
Boston has no say in it..
Pistons i believe have like 10 million because of them taking ariza
he is a good player who can be the top offensive option (not on a championship team, but we are not that right now) but he doesnt have to be due to his shooting ability.
Beasley is interesting. Has played well with minutes. Good shooter. Could fit well with RJ and i cant imagine has a high cost.
a way to get one more good nba player here. Otherwise you would be better off going with maybe Beasley and hoping he turns into something. And im not saying Russ, but maybe another solid vet PG. Or sure if you could somehow convince someone to take Randle so you could get Hayward and FVV that would work, but i dont see anyone taking Randle.
Tim MacMahon
@espn_macmahon
·
29m
One strong tie between the Knicks and Gordon Hayward: new NYK associate head coach Johnnie Bryant, the former Jazz assistant who oversaw Hayward's development in Utah.
Also, Walt Perrin, who is now with the Knicks, was Utah's head of player personnel in Utah when they drafted Hayward.
making 5 mill this year. Not really sure why this is the kind of guy you get at the beginning of the offseason. Im guessing we could find his production for vet min the day before the season starts. Unless we are getting something to take that 5 from UTA, but havent seen that.
you get 2 second round picks 2 years from now to waste 5 mill in capspace the day before FA starts. And i mean Davis is 31 its not like they think he has untapped potential.
Boy im really trying to stick to my not crush this FO for a yaer and it did work out mostly ok last night when i didnt kill them for the trade up from 27 and then they essentially turned 27 and 38 into 25 and 33 for free. But unless they needed these seconds for a different deal, i dont get it.
just the timing. I dont get making the trade the day before FA. Like how do we know we wont need that 5 mill. I mean i guess maybe they know they arent going to be on any big money guys, so maybe it doesnt matter.
It's $5M, it's not going to hamper anything they plan to do in FA
you get 2 second round picks 2 years from now to waste 5 mill in capspace the day before FA starts. And i mean Davis is 31 its not like they think he has untapped potential.
Boy im really trying to stick to my not crush this FO for a yaer and it did work out mostly ok last night when i didnt kill them for the trade up from 27 and then they essentially turned 27 and 38 into 25 and 33 for free. But unless they needed these seconds for a different deal, i dont get it.
I'm not understanding the hostility. This FO knows what they want to do. Do you really think they are dumb enough to take on $5 mil now and go after a FA and lose out because they were $5 mil short? Come on.
Gives them freedom to move up in the next couple drafts
4. 4 second round picks in 2023 altogether in the "double draft"
What double draft? I keep seeing this being said but nothing has been agreed upon. And from what I read there is a stalemate and will not happen. Maybe I am not up to date but that is the last I saw as the most current.
Ed Davis sounds like a good locker room guy and if we were not going to use that $5M in cap room anyway an expiring contract for a bench player is better than spending it on some PG who had a handful of good games.
just dont really see the value in second rounders at this point in the offseason. This is the start of FA, maybe a desperate team will give more for our capspace. But again if we know we arent going for any big salaried guys then we have plenty more capspace to rent out.
just dont really see the value in second rounders at this point in the offseason. This is the start of FA, maybe a desperate team will give more for our capspace. But again if we know we arent going for any big salaried guys then we have plenty more capspace to rent out.
If it was a first id be thrilled.
But isn't that the point of taking in "bad contracts"? It has to be done now for 1 year contracts. We shouldn't be taking on multiple year guys. It should be 1 year contracts and the purpose of that is so teams have money to spend in FA hence the timing.
guys like Hayward and FVV then im fine making 5 more trades like this. Sure we will suck again next year, but at least we can accumulate assets, save cap flexibility and hopefully get some improvements from the kids with a new FO and coaching staff
Gives them freedom to move up in the next couple drafts
4. 4 second round picks in 2023 altogether in the "double draft"
What double draft? I keep seeing this being said but nothing has been agreed upon. And from what I read there is a stalemate and will not happen. Maybe I am not up to date but that is the last I saw as the most current.
TBH, I'm not sure, but I came across this on Twitter:
"This most recent agreement started with the 2017–18 season and will run through 2023–24, with a mutual opt-out AFTER 2022–23. The plan would be for high schoolers to re-enter in the 2023 Draft."
But yeah, I'm essentially parroting what others are saying about high schoolers and about the double draft
the double draft would be a risky thing to plan on. Sounds like its 50 to 50 to ever happen.
Always good to have extra picks, that part i def like.
I thought the double draft was 2022 if at all?
From the most recent news I could find, 2022 will not happen. 2023 is possible but the stalemate is something like the NBA wants full medicals and the union and agents said hell no. Until there is a breakthrough there the double draft is not happening.
Rose for the first time in a while looks like a guy in charge that does.
It fits with who he is as well, which is more encouraging. He seems to be looking to just get value out of moves and want to stockpile assets with value. I wouldn't expect us to give us much value for Randle as he could have potential value as a trade deadline expiring or a piece in a 3 way deal.
To me taking on $5M in salary seems like good value for 2 second rounders. Also to those confused with the move on draft night with our 2nd rounder could easily be a strategy to maximize around a strategy fork in 2023. Either you can be a FA destination with RJ and Mitch as a core or you dump everyone for whatever you can get and reload with a new core all at once.
IMO what I'd expect to see with Hayward if this is the thinking is either a 2 year max deal or a longer term non max deal. If it is a longer max deal as other have noted Hayward is the kind of guy that fits alongside any star so he isn't a bad foundational player to bring in if in your estimation you have to scrape the bottom and take on some risk to bring in a "first star" FA.
but the way people hate on everything they do is crazy. people lost there minds about swapping seconds last night, some people complained today about keeping bullock for 4m and now complaining about getting picks to take on ed davis. to me, these moves show me this FO actually knows how to start building. theyre accumulating assets and also have a decent 3-and-d guy with a serviceable backup big for $9m total. last year we were giving out 10-12m each for these type of guys. you have to field a team and have some locker room stabilizers with all the youth. to me theyre doing that at reasonable prices while also grabbing some picks.
randle, unless we really needed to. I dont want him stunting the growth of Toppin but at worst you let him play out the year and let him walk. Id really like to swap him for a guy that fits a bit better. I think sending him to CHA for Cody Zeller kind of makes sense for both teams. CHA gets offense and we get a backup 5.
i walked back my "dumb move" comment and i think im the only one who said it was a dumb move. I still think the timing is a bit ehh, but everyone can calm down, i took it back, lol.
Comment on what NYK gave up for Ed Davis? I saw that there was nothing given up but they’d have to have given up at least a contract or a future pick?
Since it's a salary dump for utah, not much. It hasn't been reported yet though. Here is speculation:
"My guess is that the Ed Davis deal is a salary dump, a pick will be going out, and it's either Louis Labeyrie, Ognjen Jaramaz, or Yusuf Sanon coming back — those are the guys the Knicks still have the draft rights to. "
Comment on what NYK gave up for Ed Davis? I saw that there was nothing given up but they’d have to have given up at least a contract or a future pick?
Knicks get 2 2023 2nd round picks for taking on Davis' $5M contract. They now have 2 #1's & 4 #2's in what has been labeled the"double draft" as HS players will be coming out.Davis will replace Gibson as Mitch's backup!Smart move by Leon!
Since it's a salary dump for utah, not much. It hasn't been reported yet though. Here is speculation:
"My guess is that the Ed Davis deal is a salary dump, a pick will be going out, and it's either Louis Labeyrie, Ognjen Jaramaz, or Yusuf Sanon coming back — those are the guys the Knicks still have the draft rights to. "
Comment on what NYK gave up for Ed Davis? I saw that there was nothing given up but they’d have to have given up at least a contract or a future pick?
Since it's a salary dump for utah, not much. It hasn't been reported yet though. Here is speculation:
"My guess is that the Ed Davis deal is a salary dump, a pick will be going out, and it's either Louis Labeyrie, Ognjen Jaramaz, or Yusuf Sanon coming back — those are the guys the Knicks still have the draft rights to. "
and someone said we were getting him because a trainer said something big was going to happen, we would all be like "yeah sure". So maybe this is that?? I really dont want to have to talk myself into russ.
Handle is @davidzenon1 he deleted a tweet saying news coming would make Twitter explode (he has extensive Knicks ties and trains some of the current Knicks)
anything more than not much and I wouldn't like it.
As a salary dump for them I am interested. We don't have many options right now and while I wouldn't bet on Russ becoming a better teammate there are plenty of players that figure out how to be more selfless to win. I'm intrigued with him and Thibs perhaps making him an even better defender and how no nonsense he is. If Russ ever learned to force his shot less he could be the #1 on a championship team. You can't say that about Hayward, who you likely have to overpay to be the "first star" here as discussed above.
The NBA has opened an investigation of the reported transaction involving Milwaukee and Sacramento that was to send Bogdan Bogdanovic to the Bucks via sign-and-trade after Friday's scheduled start of free agency, @NYTSports has learned
Handle is @davidzenon1 he deleted a tweet saying news coming would make Twitter explode (he has extensive Knicks ties and trains some of the current Knicks)
they have to add at least one other good vet.
Maybe do Randle, DSJ, and Bullock for Russ. Sign Hayward. And with whatever is left over try to get Avery Bradley. Or if you have enough $$$ try to get Bogdan. They can stretch Ed Davis if they need a few extra bucks. And then sign a big with the room exception.
Handle is @davidzenon1 he deleted a tweet saying news coming would make Twitter explode (he has extensive Knicks ties and trains some of the current Knicks)
Handle is @davidzenon1 he deleted a tweet saying news coming would make Twitter explode (he has extensive Knicks ties and trains some of the current Knicks)
Why do that to your rookie head coach? baaically ask him to coach 2 guya who dont want to be there
I agree it sucks for Silas, but Fertitta seems like a vengeful SOB & probably will instruct the FO not to move either one, unless it's a Godfather like offer.
I know it’s crazy but I don’t think Twitter explodes for russel Westbrook. Imagine the kentucky crew talks davis into it. He got his championship now ts time to do it in New York. I know it’s a less than 1 percent chance, but can’t think of any other things that makes Twitter explode
I know it’s crazy but I don’t think Twitter explodes for russel Westbrook. Imagine the kentucky crew talks davis into it. He got his championship now ts time to do it in New York. I know it’s a less than 1 percent chance, but can’t think of any other things that makes Twitter explode
I think you're wildly underestimating the shit show that would be the reaction to a westbrook trade.
I know it’s crazy but I don’t think Twitter explodes for russel Westbrook. Imagine the kentucky crew talks davis into it. He got his championship now ts time to do it in New York. I know it’s a less than 1 percent chance, but can’t think of any other things that makes Twitter explode
Westbrook is still a big name and it is New York..
result in Twitter exploding, with most Knicks fan decrying the move & non Knicks fans laughing at the organization for like the 74744474777474798th time this century.
Did the NBA waive it's rule on not being able to trade specific players like draft picks before X amount of days because of this unique situation with covid?
I’ve only followed him a few months, so this is the first offseason of his supposed intel. He has a lot of vague tweets about his personal life, too - I think he has legit connections, but he’s a bit of an attention whore, too. (Like most folks on Twitter)
does sound like the grand plan is Russ-RJ-Hayward-Randle-Mitch
They can afford it under the cap if they trade Randle, DSJ for Russ. Pretty easily in fact. I'm sort of resigned to this fate, I'm just hoping we can get some picks from Houston instead of giving them.
RE: We have what? 40M in cap space with a roster of 10 players?
does sound like the grand plan is Russ-RJ-Hayward-Randle-Mitch
They can afford it under the cap if they trade Randle, DSJ for Russ. Pretty easily in fact. I'm sort of resigned to this fate, I'm just hoping we can get some picks from Houston instead of giving them.
Plan is probably to field a compeititve team and then when Russ and Hayward are done Rj, Toppin and Mitch will be ready to take over with their other draft picks in the future
is a guy who is prolly best with the ball in his hand as a slasher, this year we took an offensively skilled big. So lets go out and get a guy who literally dominates the ball 90% of the time. Really dont get it. Still hoping all this Russ to the knicks stuff is just people thinking that Russ is exactly what the knicks would usually do.
does sound like the grand plan is Russ-RJ-Hayward-Randle-Mitch
They can afford it under the cap if they trade Randle, DSJ for Russ. Pretty easily in fact. I'm sort of resigned to this fate, I'm just hoping we can get some picks from Houston instead of giving them.
does sound like the grand plan is Russ-RJ-Hayward-Randle-Mitch
They can afford it under the cap if they trade Randle, DSJ for Russ. Pretty easily in fact. I'm sort of resigned to this fate, I'm just hoping we can get some picks from Houston instead of giving them.
Did you really mean Randle at PF or Toppin?
I meant Toppin. Randle has just invited my brain.
RE: RE: We have what? 40M in cap space with a roster of 10 players?
RJ
Obi
Randle
Robinson
DSJ
Frank
Knox
Quickley
Iggy
Bullock
Jared Harper - 2 way
Myles Powell - 2 way
And Frank is the longest tenured Knick. Let that sink in.
Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
Per league sources: The New York Knicks have tendered a Two-Way qualifying offer to Jared Harper. Harper will now be a restricted free agent.
He’s still a great player and we’d (hopefully) be giving up pennies on the dollar in the trade. The cons in paying him all that loot are mitigated greatly by the low cost to get him. Plus it’s 3 years not 5. Big difference in my view.
Admit I’m a casual Knick fa. Michael Kay made a good point. He said the Knicks need to start getting some wins. I think he makes a good point. It would be nice for the Knicks to make the playoffs.
Which will make it easier after we trade for him and I start talking myself i to it. If they do it just make sure randle is in the deal and don’t send out any real assets. Then find at least one lethal shooter to start with Russ, Rj, obi and Mitch. See I’m talking myself into it already, ugh.
Which will make it easier after we trade for him and I start talking myself i to it. If they do it just make sure randle is in the deal and don’t send out any real assets. Then find at least one lethal shooter to start with Russ, Rj, obi and Mitch. See I’m talking myself into it already, ugh.
Right there with you.
It will be exciting basketball and maddening at times.
But they will grab a playoff spot.
It would be nice to win a little while we rebuild.
Damn it's gotten so bad that Westbrook is a savior.
Knicks 1st round draft picks please? I AM aknicks fan, but the current game has passed me by and its no secret the Knicks have been jokesters in FA and the draft (last super draft class was the nate rob/David Lee/Channing Frye draft right?). i honestly hated the KP pick at the timebecause he's, you know, European. But this Toppin kid looks liie he can dash to the net. Can he be taught how to d up?
I also know like nothing about Quikley. College ball was a wash for me last year.
every year between 2013-14 and 2016-17 and the Knicks finished way under .500 and out of the playoffs each season.
Just because you have a "name" player on your team scoring 20+ points a game doesn't mean you have a winning team or a playoff team.
Westbrook shot 25.8% from 3pt last year. In an average game he took 3.7 3pt shots and made 1.0.
He had the worst 3pt percentage in the league among players taking three 3pts per game or more. (Except for injured Steph Curry, whose percentage dropped to 25 percent from 43 percent the year before.)
Westbrook also tied for second in the league in turnovers per game.
Far, far from a sure thing that adding a declining RW will translate to wins.
Knicks 1st round draft picks please? I AM aknicks fan, but the current game has passed me by and its no secret the Knicks have been jokesters in FA and the draft (last super draft class was the nate rob/David Lee/Channing Frye draft right?). i honestly hated the KP pick at the timebecause he's, you know, European. But this Toppin kid looks liie he can dash to the net. Can he be taught how to d up?
I also know like nothing about Quikley. College ball was a wash for me last year.
that has to be another sign that Randle is on the way out right? You cant have this many offensively skilled players who like the ball (i know this isnt prime melo but still) and arent good defenders.
Kind of surprised Melo doesnt want to ring chase. I respect the fact that he wants to play for the Knicks.
if we had a specific other move lined up (not even sure what that would be). Otherwise Seems like a hefty price to pay just to dump Randle right? Thats essentially what your doing there, trading Knox or Frank and a first to trade one year of Randle?
if we had a specific other move lined up (not even sure what that would be). Otherwise Seems like a hefty price to pay just to dump Randle right? Thats essentially what your doing there, trading Knox or Frank and a first to trade one year of Randle?
Yeah basically leaves you still with 33 million in space roughly if Hayward took 3 years at 25 million, can go after FVV and presumably still have 10 million to fill out roster
I find it hard to think that Hayward opted out of 34M to take 25M per
but im guessing he is around 25 for 3 years. Still makes a ton of sense for him. Gets 40 mill guaranteed in a time when we still dont know if we will get a full season, fans in the stands, etc...
Yeah the only way id consider that for Randle is if you were getting FVV and even then i think its a kinda steep price.
and they have talked about a sign and trade. Personally, I think the best fit for him and the celtics in a sign and trade would be GSW. He'd work really well there.
If he just signed as a FA straight, I'm not sure why NYK would be a draw for him unless they totally blew ATL out of the water.
but im guessing he is around 25 for 3 years. Still makes a ton of sense for him. Gets 40 mill guaranteed in a time when we still dont know if we will get a full season, fans in the stands, etc...
Yeah the only way id consider that for Randle is if you were getting FVV and even then i think its a kinda steep price.
I would much rather sign Bertans as a starting SF if Barrett is SG, who is a 3 pt sniper and 6’10”. Especially if he plays 30-35 minutes a game as a starter. Is his defense good? It’s a lot better to pay him $16-$20M per year vs Hayward at $25M per year.
i cant imagine that he is a good defender at SF....
but im not really sure. People literally only talk about how he shoots, lol. Id be ok with adding him, if he can play SF. Now if Hayward clocks in at 25 id much rather him for 7 mill more. He is a better player and fits a bit better.
Really one dimensional and a bad defender. Bad rebounder for 6'10". Elite shooter but I don't think he does enough other things to be a big part of your cap space. He's gotta be more of a role player, IMO so 18M is too much for me.
RE: I find it hard to think that Hayward opted out of 34M to take 25M per
Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
Yahoo Sources: The Houston Rockets and Orlando Magic had discussed a trade featuring Russell Westbrook for a package centered around Aaron Gordon, but talks never progressed.
get a veteran PG other than Westbrook - FVV would be great, but Augustine would be fine. And get another defensive minded 5 - don't see that we have Mitch's backup (or the starter for whom he's the backup) on the roster yet. Don't particularly want to see Randle at the 5 but right now I think we will unless we land someone else who can play the position.
Forget Hayward, Melo etc. Any vets other than FVV should be on relatively short contracts, no more than 2 years.
I think there's a pretty decent chance FVV underperforms on his next contract. I'm not thrilled about throwing a ton of money at him, but I'm not thrilled about a one year stopgap of DJ Augustin either.
We will get one for some combo of future picks. Too many teams have an excess right now. My question is can RJ guard the two? Haywood would have to guard the 3. Not sure RJ is quick enough.
just set an amount and said here you go. Dont let him use us to bid against ourselves or bid up someone else. If anything you would think Rose knows how this part works.
I'll believe the Knicks signing a desired player when it happens
Agreed. Very odd.
Yup, unless they are using 8 and 23 to move up, or using 23 for another player?
Yeah, but how do we know who will be available at 23? And how do we know that he won't be available at 27?
Weird trade
True. Could be that.
otherwise yeah why didn't they work out this trade in advance and pull the trigger if the guy they want is still there at 23.
Barf
I think this is likely.
Only thing that makes sense, since no one has any idea who will be available at 23.
I like him, but he doesn't really fit the Knicks.
But yeah i think its more likely they needed the value of 23 for some other move.
Im ok moving up but i really dont want it to be for Toppin. I wasnt even loving the idea of taking him if he fell to 8. But 8 and 23 is only getting you up to what 5-6 in this draft? Id rather keep the picks unless we can move up for one of the top 3 (i know its not happening).
Would love this.
Where do I sign?
But yeah i think its more likely they needed the value of 23 for some other move.
Im ok moving up but i really dont want it to be for Toppin. I wasnt even loving the idea of taking him if he fell to 8. But 8 and 23 is only getting you up to what 5-6 in this draft? Id rather keep the picks unless we can move up for one of the top 3 (i know its not happening).
I wouldn't do it for Toppin, but I can see how the Knicks were willing to part with 38 since Mock Drafts seem to indicate that potentially a number of players we could be targetting are listed in the late 20's and since 2nd Rounders can be obtained for cash it was worth the deal.
Jesus. Do draft rights ever expire? Do we still have the rights to Ahmed Nivens?
If they take him I imagine Thibs would have signed off. So maybe he sees upside there?
There has been chatter that we might buy an extra second rounder, so we'll see.
Maybe we can see the long-awaited Lavar vs. MJ one-on-one
I think to me it is an indication of what we spoke about yesterday.
The Knicks have settled on Vassell or Okoro at #8 and want to make sure they get one of the cluster at PGs later (Maledon, Flynn, Terry and Pritchard). Perhaps, they thought 4 spots made the difference.
Yeah, I'll give 'em the benefit of the doubt too, for at least one offseason. Excited to see what happens later. But somewhat nervous as well. I'm hoping Rose isn't pulling out all the stops for LaMela.
I think to me it is an indication of what we spoke about yesterday.
The Knicks have settled on Vassell or Okoro at #8 and want to make sure they get one of the cluster at PGs later (Maledon, Flynn, Terry and Pritchard). Perhaps, they thought 4 spots made the difference.
Still doesnt make sense to do the deal now, you wait til 23 then make the trade, what happens if all those players you like are gone?
Vassell or Okoro at 8...I have a hard time even typing it.I think they should be aiming higher.
It’s his Jimmy Butler clone
Vassell or Okoro at 8...I have a hard time even typing it.I think they should be aiming higher.
Ghost - Im with you, I hate either of those picks.
@McDNBA
·
1h
BREAKING - sources say projected Lottery pick Onyeka Okongwu currently has an injured foot.
Teams in tonight’s NBA Draft Lottery are a scrambling to get medical info on Okongwu’s foot to determine the severity of the injury.
Okongwu has fans with teams in the mid/late Lottery.
its not a bad mpve just odd timing...
so even if it turns out good it is a bad move?
What if they did Hayward and their 3 firsts (with Hayward agreeing to an extension with GS) and took back Wiggins with #2? That's the only thing I can think of. Would probably also take a future first or two to get it done.
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Thibs wants okoro
It’s his Jimmy Butler clone
Jimmy Butler "clone" doesn't fall to 8 in a poor draft. He has some Butler similarities.
We know NOTHING about this new front office other than that they all have OUTSTANDING reputations. What Isiah Thomas or Phil Jackson or Steve Mills did has ZERO to do with this FO team.
@MattBabcock11
·
9m
Rumors: the T’Wolves don’t want #1. They could move back for Obi, or take Wiseman and trade him later. The Cavs want Obi too. The Hornets and Spurs want Wiseman. Ball to Hornets over Big O, if they can't get Wiseman. Williams to Pistons. Vassell or Achiuwa to Wizards... #nbadraft
I like him, but who’s going to spread the floor? The fit with Barrett is questionable.
Exactamundo!
@wojespn
Moving up four spots to No. 23 strengthens the Knicks ability to package that and No. 8 to target a pick/player above them on the board tonight.
@wojespn
Moving up four spots to No. 23 strengthens the Knicks ability to package that and No. 8 to target a pick/player above them on the board tonight.
yeah well duh (aimed at Woj, not you)
He knows, he has a relationship with Rose
Yep. Don't want him for precisely that reason. Either get a point guard or a guy who can shoot. Hayes or Lewis if they want a point, Vassell if they want a shooter.
I guess it could be Toppin, which would be annoying. My hope is it's for Hayes.
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to do this now as opposed to during the draft.
Yup, unless they are using 8 and 23 to move up, or using 23 for another player?
That was my thoughts too. Or, they literally did the math and know for (99%) certain a player they like will definitely be at 23. Seems far fetched but i guess it's possible?
@wojespn
Moving up four spots to No. 23 strengthens the Knicks ability to package that and No. 8 to target a pick/player above them on the board tonight.
that assumes 23 has more value than 27 and 38....and even if that's true, why does Utah do the deal?
But im thinking this more gets you to the 5 range which seems like Toppin. Cant understand essentially using 8, 27 and 38 to get Toppin.
I agree. In terms of why now, there could be several good (hopefully) reasons. After making inquiries, perhaps this was as low as they could get with the 27 and 38 and they didn't want to potentially lose the opportunity to another team as things heat up during the draft. It would imply that there are two players or more they are interested in and didn't want to miss out on by three places. Finally, there has been talk about the Knicks being willing to buy another pick. If so, it adds to the explanation of this move. Hope springs eternal.
But another possibility is that they viewed it as a "free" upgrade from 27 to 23 given that they view 38 as very replaceable with a purcha$e of an early 2nd rounder.
@MikeVorkunov
Maybe a trade like 8 + 23 to move up to No. 5 (and something else) could work if Cleveland likes that offer. Knicks seem to have some interest in Obi Toppin and Cavaliers have been projected as a landing spot for him in mock drafts.
"Some NBA executives believe the Knicks traded up from No. 27 to this spot to get ahead of Oklahoma City and ensure they land Stewart on draft night, though it's possible the Knicks attempt to package this pick to move up deeper into the top 10."
Re: Isiah Stewart
Link - ( New Window )
@NBADraftWass
·
2m
Yep, already buzz out that that the Knicks are trying to move up to 5 or 6 with 8 and 23
Patrick Williams!
Bunch of assets seems a little extreme. A late first and a early second are nice but really not that valuable.
If the guy you really want is Toppin and think there's a big dip, then it's a small price to pay to get your guy.
This is purely my opinion but from what I've seen it's a combination of the two. He's physically limited in terms of how fast he can move laterally and isn't quick enough to flip his hips to get around screens. There is also some mental stuff which I think comes from a lack of coaching/experience. His technique isn't good but it's fixable. He'll never be a good defensive player but I don't think he's so limited physically that with better coaching and more reps he can't become passable on defense to the point where he's not a liability to have on the court.
I like Toppin a lot personally, more so than it seems others on this board do. Having Mitch at the 5 can help to mask some of these limitations for the time being but they'll need to find two other good defensive players to round out the bunch with RJ, Mitch and Toppin.
This is also where having Thibs helps. If what I've seen in watching him play is correct and he is by all accounts a good kid who is smart and works hard, then Thibs should be able to coach him up to the point where he's passable.
This may be the one year where they can use their financial might to buy a late first or second rounder. I know we all say this every year but this year is unique (I think, we'll see tonight). They could also do so by taking back a contract to help a team get under the luxury tax or clear up extra space.
I also am like 95% sure if we draft Obi and don't get a PG later on that we're going to make a move for Westbrook.
Thibs isn't here to not make the playoffs.
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wouldn't expect...says the Bulls and Pistons like him enough...
Patrick Williams!
Nope
Quote:
In comment 15049811 Anakim said:
Quote:
wouldn't expect...says the Bulls and Pistons like him enough...
Patrick Williams!
Nope
Does your friend have any connections? or is he just guessing like the rest of us.
Bulls and Pistons have been connected with Hayes so that's who I could see us moving up for if not Toppin.
@SBondyNYDN
·
46s
Wouldn’t be surprising if Knicks made a move for Obi Toppin. Lot of ties to the organization — CAA, training with Rick Brunson and has been working out at the gym of Dajuan Wagner, who is like family to Worldwide Wes.
I was trying to put this the right way but that's a concern about Toppin too. Most of the reason he is so old for his grade is he was academically ineligible his freshman season.
Maybe Thibs can coach him up? I wouldn't bank on it though.
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hate to be mean but Anthony Edwards sounds like he's a very low iq prospect. Not sure how important that is in the NBA vs. the NFL but reading some of his quotes/interviews... he might have issues picking up schemes.
I was trying to put this the right way but that's a concern about Toppin too. Most of the reason he is so old for his grade is he was academically ineligible his freshman season.
Toppin at least comes off as relatively well-spoken and is clearly a very hard worker. You can look at that history (without it being a huge leap of faith) and come to the conclusion that he was immature at the time but has learned from it. Whereas with Edwards, he seems aloof both on and off the court and has a reputation for disengaging or disappearing for stretches so personally (if we were picking in the top 3) I'd be concerned with him improving drastically.
Quote:
In comment 15049844 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 15049811 Anakim said:
Quote:
wouldn't expect...says the Bulls and Pistons like him enough...
Patrick Williams!
Nope
Does your friend have any connections? or is he just guessing like the rest of us.
Bulls and Pistons have been connected with Hayes so that's who I could see us moving up for if not Toppin.
People on here know who he is
Edwards' answer about the NBA vs. NFL was about as bad of an answer as you'll ever see. That's the kind of answer that should scare everyone thinking about drafting him.
On the flipside, I saw some draft analyst guy on ESPN mention that Edwards' acceleration graded out as the best that the sports science testers had measured out of 400 or so NBA prospects/players they had measured over the years. Combine that 1st step explosiveness with his big frame, great vertical, and potentially good shot and he's the guy who you almost have to take at #1 despite all his flaws.
There is much talk here about the difficulty in buying a high #2, but that the potential exists for getting high #2s in exchange for cash plus a future #2. The Knicks have a number of extra future late #1s and random #2s floating around. Do they really need 5 #1s and #2s in 2021? It is entirely possible that they have identified a couple of trade partners for one of those combinations.
Go to Knicks section (duh). - ( New Window )
Edwards' answer about the NBA vs. NFL was about as bad of an answer as you'll ever see. That's the kind of answer that should scare everyone thinking about drafting him.
On the flipside, I saw some draft analyst guy on ESPN mention that Edwards' acceleration graded out as the best that the sports science testers had measured out of 400 or so NBA prospects/players they had measured over the years. Combine that 1st step explosiveness with his big frame, great vertical, and potentially good shot and he's the guy who you almost have to take at #1 despite all his flaws.
Wagner's son is the #1 HS player in his class. He is the same year as Lebron's son, who is ranked 20th.
The players I want are Okoro, Halliburton, and Williams.
We should be able to stay at 8 and get one of those. Picking 8 is not a bad place to be in this draft.
Kelsey Russo
@kelseyyrusso
·
7m
The Cavs and Knicks have discussed trading the No. 5 pick for 8 and 23, but the Cavs are holding out for more, sources told
@TheAthleticNBA
. For reference, the Pelicans and Hawks swapped 4 for 8, 17 and 35, among other pieces, in a draft-day deal last year.
The players I want are Okoro, Halliburton, and Williams.
We should be able to stay at 8 and get one of those. Picking 8 is not a bad place to be in this draft.
RAIN - I understand what you are saying, but the Knicks already have 2 players in their projected starting lineup (Mitch and RJ) that can't shoot. They cannot add a 3rd player like Okoro or Williams that can't really shoot yet either. It is why I am so high on Kira/Nesmith and have really warmed up to Obi as well. I think he can be taught, wish he was 20 and not 22, but that is nitpicking.
Jake
@jakeweingarten
Source: The Toronto Raptors have tons of interest in selecting Louisville’s Jordan Nwora with the 29th pick. Tons of buzz surrounding them with him. He and Kyle Lowry share the same representation.
I totally get and largely agree with the defensive criticism, but at this point we are not good enough to worry about things like would get targeted and picked apart in the Eastern finals. I am warming to him as he seems like he could be a plus offensive stretch four that has a feel for passing/playmaking and would fit with RJ and Mitch. If we use this year as one more tank year, started of something like DJ Augustin/Frank/RJ/Obi/Mitch would clearly be bad but at least fun and worth developing.
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And Okoro make sense. Toppin doesn’t from a defensive perspective. We need two way players.
The players I want are Okoro, Halliburton, and Williams.
We should be able to stay at 8 and get one of those. Picking 8 is not a bad place to be in this draft.
RAIN - I understand what you are saying, but the Knicks already have 2 players in their projected starting lineup (Mitch and RJ) that can't shoot. They cannot add a 3rd player like Okoro or Williams that can't really shoot yet either. It is why I am so high on Kira/Nesmith and have really warmed up to Obi as well. I think he can be taught, wish he was 20 and not 22, but that is nitpicking.
Defense is something that cannot be taught. I believe shooting, if the base stroke is sound, is much easier to develop. Defense is a mind set. Knox comes to mind as someone that can’t stay on the floor because his defense is atrocious. His shooting and scoring are plus... but his flaws on the other end are fatal. You can’t develop that will to defend. I’d argue it harder to come by than shooting. . Both Okoro and Williams I think have that. Sound form, but need to develop theough reps.
That said, I get your point and it’s also logical but from the opposite direction. If Toppin can develop that will to defend, I’d be on board. I don’t think it’s that easy tho.
ANd CLE can fuck right off if they want more to move back 3 spots.
Kelsey Russo
@kelseyyrusso
·
7m
The Cavs and Knicks have discussed trading the No. 5 pick for 8 and 23, but the Cavs are holding out for more, sources told
@TheAthleticNBA
. For reference, the Pelicans and Hawks swapped 4 for 8, 17 and 35, among other pieces, in a draft-day deal last year.
I am fine teading up for toppin, but you better get randle off this team, Toppin needs to atart day 1
One team executive told me Knicks head coach Tom Thibodeau has a “crush” on Okoro, which should come as no surprise considering their shared passion for defense. Okoro is arguably the best defender in the class, with strength and multi-positional versatility. Okoro does, however, need to improve his jump shot to realize his offensive potential. It’s unlikely that Toppin will still be on the board at this point, but if he is, he’ll be also in consideration.
But Yeah randle needs to be gone. They cant play together and ill go through the roof if Randle is logging 35 minutes a game while topping gets 12 and Thibs feeds us lines about vets.
But Yeah randle needs to be gone. They cant play together and ill go through the roof if Randle is logging 35 minutes a game while topping gets 12 and Thibs feeds us lines about vets.
Toppin can be an 18 ppg scorer next year
They pass on Bane and Flynn at 23. I'd take them both over Anthony.
I wouldn't worry about his offense. It's legit. Is it good enough to more than make up for his defensive shortcomings though?
If Morey somehow pulls off a trade for Harden without giving up Embiid or Simmons...hand that man Executive of the Decade.
What is the obsession with power forwards?
Damn I look forward to moments like the draft and FA yet always disappointed
I just have a difficult time believing the Knicks are doing this for Obi Toppen.
I like Nico Mannion, but it’s hard to convince anyone that shot selection is why he shot under 40% from the field. Add in a lack of standout physical traits and poor defense, he probably should’ve gone back to school. But I do think he has talent and his shooting numbers will be better if a coach gets him under control.
Berman also projected him to the Knicks.
Berman also projected him to the Knicks.
KOC does as well. Thibs apparently loves him.
As I said on Twitter back in August
“ Big Okoro fan but it's fair to have concerns regarding a starting 5 that has Barrett, Okoro and Mitch. A lot of pressure to find shooters.”
A guy like Bane would be awesome at 23 if we landed Okoro at 8
Berman also projected him to the Knicks.
Okoro is really the only pick that I will be unhappy with, I just don't see how he and RJ fit together. The biggest problem for Barrett last year was the team's poor spacing, he would consistently beat his man only to be met at the rim by 4 defenders. Adding Okoro, who plays Barrett's position, does nothing to help that.
At least a guy like Toppin will pull a big man out of the paint because you have to respect his perimeter shooting.
Honestly they could go in one of 6 directions at this point and I wouldn't be surprised. Don't remember the last time it was like this.
Honestly they could go in one of 6 directions at this point and I wouldn't be surprised. Don't remember the last time it was like this.
Is Macri credible? Serious question
Quote:
also just said Patrick Williams has been mentioned.
Honestly they could go in one of 6 directions at this point and I wouldn't be surprised. Don't remember the last time it was like this.
Is Macri credible? Serious question
Jury is out. I'm always skeptical of the blogger turned reporter journey.
Quote:
also just said Patrick Williams has been mentioned.
Honestly they could go in one of 6 directions at this point and I wouldn't be surprised. Don't remember the last time it was like this.
Is Macri credible? Serious question
Macri is a friend of mine and he is credible, he has really built up his brand, something I am trying to do. However, I just emailed him that he needs to stop throwing every name out there and really stick to a guy he thinks they are going to take and make his prediction.
I agree with you, but I can see why they want Toppin. He would be a good fit with Robinson and RJ. If you get a PG that can shoot and play Frank at the 2 or 3, you start to have something resembling a balanced line-up.
I get this POV and lean in the same direction, but I keep coming back to the SGA draft with Frank in the fold. If Knicks brass isn't sold on RJ yet and they love Okoro, then passing on Okoro because you have RJ is just compounding mistakes.
I don't think it impacts the cap at all. Usually you see these guys (players who will never play in the league) involved in trades where a team has send back *something* in return and doesn't want to send $$. But in this case, there was something tangible going back on both sides of the deal so I have no clue.
I was thinking the same (nor do I understand it).
don't we still have Louis Labeyrie for that? lol....
How many times are we going to see Frank score 2 points in 23 minutes next year until we realize it's not worth it?
How many times are we going to see Frank score 2 points in 23 minutes next year until we realize it's not worth it?
Been trying to make that point all day. The Knicks are not giving up on RJ for the chance to draft Okoro or Vassell. They need to draft with the mind-set of a balanced lineup. It is why I can see their interest in Toppin,.
Quote:
you want to draft another defensive guy who can't shoot? We have that with Ntilikina.
How many times are we going to see Frank score 2 points in 23 minutes next year until we realize it's not worth it?
Been trying to make that point all day. The Knicks are not giving up on RJ for the chance to draft Okoro or Vassell. They need to draft with the mind-set of a balanced lineup. It is why I can see their interest in Toppin,.
Agreed, they probably think Toppin can help ASAP on the offensive end (which is probably true). His defense is just really really bad.
I will say this I'm not sure where the idea that it is easier to teach D comes from though. IMO when you look at the guys that really have improved their D a lot of it comes down to effort. Managing effort - Harden example where he needs to use more of his gas to balance his game. But plenty of "defensive specialists" have expanded their offense and become stars. I think as the game moves more towards shooting and analytics speak to the 3 point shot it's definitely something you can drill and per the 10,000 hour expert theory just get your motion down.
People that accel at defense almost always have that skill because of athleticism, which is the least teachable skill. Secondly, I would say scoring is the most fun thing to do, and some do it very naturally and aren't necessarily high effort players. Defense and effort go hand in hand. Finally, so much of defense is situational, feel, anticipation. Quick mental calculations that I think some aren't as good at or don't focus as much on. Offense is much more about your relationship to the hoop especially in NBA, the old, i'm going to take my shot and hit it and you have to adapt to me to stop me. The exception there is great ball handlers, that game is extremely mental however, there aren't that many players in the NBA that have handles that good.
But im thinking this more gets you to the 5 range which seems like Toppin. Cant understand essentially using 8, 27 and 38 to get Toppin.
My sources say GSW has zero interest in Randle...
I have no idea why the Bulls would trade Carter and 4th pick for 2nd overall. What a steal for the Warriors if that pull that off.
And hard pass on Toppin for me. He makes Amare look like Bill Russell. He's going to get killed on defense in the league.
He's not my first choice but I'm not as vehemently against picking him as others here. They absolutely 100% need to add shooters this offseason but they can do it with their cap space too.
Randle, 8, 23, dallas pick for wiggins and 2?
He's not my first choice but I'm not as vehemently against picking him as others here. They absolutely 100% need to add shooters this offseason but they can do it with their cap space too.
He iS just not a fit with RJ
@TheSteinLine
·
39s
There is a growing belief among rival teams that Atlanta will be in pole position for Danilo Gallinari and Rajon Rondo when free agency begins later this week, league sources say
As @NYTSports
reported on Oct. 28, Rondo is also poised to receive strong interest from the Clippers
I bet other teams reached out after this and offered more.
Randle, 8, 23, dallas pick for wiggins and 2?
Randle, 8, 23, dallas pick for wiggins and 2?
Sign me up but the Warriors would hang up the phone.
@MattBabcock11
·
13m
The Mavs and the Thunder are discussing a trade that would send Danilo Gallinari to Dallas in a sign-and-trade and the 18th pick to OKC, per sources.
@MattBabcock11
The Mavs and the Thunder are discussing a trade that would send Danilo Gallinari to Dallas in a sign-and-trade and the 18th pick to OKC, per sources.
@wojespn
The Sixers are sending a lightly-protected 2025 first-round pick and the 34th overall pick in tonight's draft, sources tell ESPN. The Thunder are also sending Terrance Ferguson to the Sixers with Green
OKC also gets Vasilije Micic
If that Tobias contract was just like a year or so shorter id consider taking him with Korkmaz, #21 and our second back (we send back Randle and filler). Harris would be a good fit with this team and is still fairly young. But MAN that contract is awful.
Or are we focusing on non-core guys Frank, whom may not be here much longer? Or Knox, whom plays the four and can't play Defense like Randle, and Toppin?
My point, you guys are focusing on pieces that aren't long term solutions. Knox can shoot it. Can't play D, or defend the 3/4. Similar to Randle. Can score but not defend. Toppin is 22. Okoro is 19.Your not building your team for next year. Your building it looking past 2021.
I'm making bets on people that contribute on both ends of the floor, while developing the jumper. I don't know a lot of players that come into the league shooting a high % from the outside and are complete players. Okoro would be well out of our Range if he was polished shooter and go before Edwards. His jumper form is more projectable than Lamelo's.
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
Warriors star Klay Thompson suffered an apparent lower leg injury today and is undergoing tests to determine severity, sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
@NBADraftWass
·
20s
Hearing Isaac Okoro has risen high on the Cavaliers board. Any motivation to swap with the Knicks would be tied to Cleveland's interest/ability to get Okoro at 8.
@NBADraftWass
·
20s
Hearing Isaac Okoro has risen high on the Cavaliers board. Any motivation to swap with the Knicks would be tied to Cleveland's interest/ability to get Okoro at 8.
So basically if NYK moved up to 5, Cleveland really may also want Okoro hence they want more than 8+23? NYK should sit back and take Vassell at 8 and still have a pick at 23, or maybe Tobbin falls to 8 and they don’t have to trade up.
Chris Fedor
@ChrisFedor
It sure seems like teams are operating under the impression that Deni Avdija is going 4th to Chicago. That's why #Cavs would be willing to move down. Why Knicks would trade up to 5, believing Cavs wouldn't let Obi Toppin get to 8. Why Detroit has considered moving up (Williams)
Am i crazy for likely Toppin? they obviously need to then move randle
I get that it’s a weak draft but man that seems like a great use of cap space. Ariza is on a 12 million expiring. Seems like a no brainer.
I don’t get why the Knicks seem so averse to these types of deals. Just cut Bobby Portis and there’s your cap space for this move.
Quote:
are totally trading 38, 27 and 8 to land... Obi Toppin lol
Am i crazy for likely Toppin? they obviously need to then move randle
If he fell to 8 maybe, not at the cost of 8, 27 and 38 c'mon. No other team was going to do this and you know it.
@wojespn
Sacramento Kings forward Bogdan Bogdanovic plans to enter restricted free agency on Friday at 6 PM ET, sources tell ESPN.
Quote:
In comment 15050586 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
are totally trading 38, 27 and 8 to land... Obi Toppin lol
Am i crazy for likely Toppin? they obviously need to then move randle
If he fell to 8 maybe, not at the cost of 8, 27 and 38 c'mon. No other team was going to do this and you know it.
that i agree with, i jjst mean the prospect
Wait, wasn't he traded to Milwaukee? Am I confusing him with someone else?
Quote:
asleep at the wheel? Pistons got 16th overall for just cap space and a future pick?
I get that it’s a weak draft but man that seems like a great use of cap space. Ariza is on a 12 million expiring. Seems like a no brainer.
I don’t get why the Knicks seem so averse to these types of deals. Just cut Bobby Portis and there’s your cap space for this move.
Because they are saving the cap space for westbrook
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..
Wait, wasn't he traded to Milwaukee? Am I confusing him with someone else?
He apparently bever agreed to it
Quote:
..
Wait, wasn't he traded to Milwaukee? Am I confusing him with someone else?
Fell through
It feels like a year you should want multiple picks over aiming for one guy. Hope for the best... but nope lol
maybe Ball and Wiseman but there is on Zion or Morant in this draft
Yup. Next year is the year you want to have a high pick, especially with Cunningham.
Yup. Another stacked draft.
My friends mom sent her up on a date with him years ago. Apparently, he's a very nice guy with a good sense of humor. They never went on a second date.
8
That draft is gonna be insane. I was really impressed by both Holmgren and Bates in their game last week. Holmgren is another unicorn and Bates plays like a pro despite being a child.
Yup. He went to Duke. She didn’t have anything particularly noteworthy or funny to say about him other than he was funny and a “good dude”
Again, everything is a crapshoot, hopefully we'll have better luck with this regime. I'd be happy with Toppin at 5.
Haha. Love it. Just cracked open my second beer.
Edwards it is.
Quote:
let the craziness go
Haha. Love it. Just cracked open my second beer.
i dont drink anymore, so a little blunt here and there is my thing
Shams Charania
Sources: Charlotte will select LaMelo Ball with the No. 3 overall pick in the NBA Draft.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Charlotte is focused on LaMelo Ball with the No. 3 pick, sources tell ESPN.
Would love it if Knkcms could trade for 5 and somehow get Garland with it..
@ShamsCharania
·
22s
Sources: Cleveland is selecting Isaac Okoro with the No. 5 pick in the NBA Draft.
@ShamsCharania
·
22s
Sources: Cleveland is selecting Isaac Okoro with the No. 5 pick in the NBA Draft.
...is that the Knicks guy?
One of Toppin, Hayes, Lewis, or Vassell will be a Knick, and I'm pretty good with that.
out of those who do you want?
Quote:
Toppin or Avdija
out of those who do you want?
Halliburton > Avdija > Toppin
We need a PG desperately and Halliburton will be a good one
Quote:
Toppin or Avdija
out of those who do you want?
I talked myself into Halliburton earlier this afternoon.
Looks like Knicks will get Toppin without trading up.
Wonder if they try to trade up from 23 to get a PG?
He's a meh pick IMO. Another small forward stretch 4 who can't defend. Give me Halliburton or Avdija
Please pick Halliburton
I'm fine with him too but then you're acknowledging the Knox pick was a bust
Quote:
probably take Avidja here.
I'm fine with him too but then you're acknowledging the Knox pick was a bust
Sold. Knox was a bust.
@wojespn
·
16s
New York has long been excited that Dayton's Obi Toppin might drop to them at No. 8, sources tell ESPN. He's almost there.
They never tried him at his best position which is stretch 4.
@wojespn
·
16s
New York has long been excited that Dayton's Obi Toppin might drop to them at No. 8, sources tell ESPN. He's almost there.
Toppin can't play defense to save his life. Maybe Thibs can coach him up
Toppin is a one-dimensional stretch 4 type who can score at will but has virtually zero defensive skills required of an NBA power forward or stretch 4
This Knicks team not only sucks balls but they are remarkably boring to watch.
Westbrook and maybe Terry or Flynn
Quote:
That's who they wanted
Toppin is a one-dimensional stretch 4 type who can score at will but has virtually zero defensive skills required of an NBA power forward or stretch 4
I mean he's definitely not one dimensional. He can't defend or rebound, but he's a dynamic offensive player.
I'd agree with this.
Quote:
because Thibs will not go into the season without an established PG
I'd agree with this.
And the Hornets have their PG in Lamelo
Not bad
Quote:
In comment 15050729 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
That's who they wanted
Toppin is a one-dimensional stretch 4 type who can score at will but has virtually zero defensive skills required of an NBA power forward or stretch 4
I mean he's definitely not one dimensional. He can't defend or rebound, but he's a dynamic offensive player.
yeah, he can score at all three levels. He's Kanter-esque in PnR defense.
I need Terry at 23 now pls
The right comparison is actually a much older school player: Larry Nance
Problem with Haliburton, he xoesnt have thr athleticism to get into the lane, i dont want my Point guard hanging around the perimiter
The same as its been for 10 years. Nobody. Nobody is the PG because they never get one.
Let's see who they can get at 23.
Not even close. Toppin is going to score, and score a bunch. The question is will he allow even more points than he puts in.
No way, Toppin is a freakish athlete. Think Larry Nance back when he was on the Suns in the 80s
Now do something with Randle please
Obi is the cousin of one of my best friends from college. Their family is over the moon.
I haven’t followed this draft close enough to opine on whether he was the right pick, but rooting hard for the kid.
Toppin is perfect with Mitch.
Haliburton isn't quick or vertically explosive, not a great shooter, okay handle, what makes you think he'll be a great PG? Because he's unselfish?
Depends on the shitty contract, but I probably would. I really like Kira's game.
Quote:
Is that a decent comp for Toppin’s upside?
The right comparison is actually a much older school player: Larry Nance
Nance was a pretty good defender though. I can def see the similarities in terms of finishing.
Hopefully his defense is up to par. He should atleast provide some excitement for Knicks fans. RJ Barrett/Obi/Mitch... the Knicks are forming an identity of a team that could potentially be really good at scoring inside, but they need their outside shooting to be good enough to allow them that opportunity. Barrett getting a jumper remains the key.
If possible I would hope so.
Quote:
In comment 15050744 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
Is that a decent comp for Toppin’s upside?
The right comparison is actually a much older school player: Larry Nance
Nance was a pretty good defender though. I can def see the similarities in terms of finishing.
Hopefully his defense is up to par. He should atleast provide some excitement for Knicks fans. RJ Barrett/Obi/Mitch... the Knicks are forming an identity of a team that could potentially be really good at scoring inside, but they need their outside shooting to be good enough to allow them that opportunity. Barrett getting a jumper remains the key.
Interestingly enough RJ may actually have the worst jumper out of all 3 of those guys.
haha - so true.
Quote:
That cried tears of joy to come play for the Knicks!!!
haha - so true.
I think he's from the lower east side
Quote:
In comment 15050774 Stu11 said:
Quote:
That cried tears of joy to come play for the Knicks!!!
haha - so true.
I think he's from the lower east side
Brooklyn, no?
Quote:
In comment 15050784 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
In comment 15050774 Stu11 said:
Quote:
That cried tears of joy to come play for the Knicks!!!
haha - so true.
I think he's from the lower east side
Brooklyn, no?
You're right, Bushwick
Quote:
In comment 15050784 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
In comment 15050774 Stu11 said:
Quote:
That cried tears of joy to come play for the Knicks!!!
haha - so true.
I think he's from the lower east side
Brooklyn, no?
Yes, Bushwick. Moved to Florida for HS.
RJ's mother is from Brooklyn, went to St Johns. He really wanted to be a Knick too.
As a Brooklyn native myself, really hope it works out.
Yep the one guaranteed thing in life in pro sports drafts is that when all the reporters say its gonna be a wild night of trades, there are virtually none...
@wojespn
·
2m
New Orleans has been discussing trade scenarios with the No. 13 pick, sources tell ESPN.
@wojespn
·
2m
New Orleans has been discussing trade scenarios with the No. 13 pick, sources tell ESPN.
Hell yes swoop in there for Kira.
It has to be they have Bledsoe, George Hill and Lonzo
Hopefully
Quote:
are taking Kira. Fuck. Hopefully it's part of a trade.
It has to be they have Bledsoe, George Hill and Lonzo
Eh. None of those guys are long term options. Maybe they'll trade Bledsoe.
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
New Orleans plans to keep Kira Lewis with No. 13 pick.
Quote:
In comment 15050801 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
are taking Kira. Fuck. Hopefully it's part of a trade.
It has to be they have Bledsoe, George Hill and Lonzo
Eh. None of those guys are long term options. Maybe they'll trade Bledsoe.
I thought they would go Nesmith
Oh, we're going old school? Mint!
Just a hunch.
I don’t understand that pick at all, doesn’t seem like a good fit with Ayton in the middle. Go Suns thou I follow Bridges out there.
Shocked he went that high
A versatile defender and good 3p shooter, feels complimentary in both directions between RJ and Toppin.
A versatile defender and good 3p shooter, feels complimentary in both directions between RJ and Toppin.
Would've loved Bey had we not taken Toppin. We need backcourt help desperately.
A versatile defender and good 3p shooter, feels complimentary in both directions between RJ and Toppin.
Tough thing to type as a Hoyas fan, but Bey was an absolute pain in the nuts to play against.
Quote:
But Saddiq Bey would be a nice fit for NYK.
A versatile defender and good 3p shooter, feels complimentary in both directions between RJ and Toppin.
Would've loved Bey had we not taken Toppin. We need backcourt help desperately.
I don’t see a game changing point guard worth forcing something at 23 right now. A safe 3-and-D contributor is a welcome add for any team but a real need on this NYK roster right now.
Quote:
But Saddiq Bey would be a nice fit for NYK.
A versatile defender and good 3p shooter, feels complimentary in both directions between RJ and Toppin.
Tough thing to type as a Hoyas fan, but Bey was an absolute pain in the nuts to play against.
With no respect to Jay Billass, Bey is the best shooter in this draft. The dude he talked about played 14 games.
Damn Cole Anthony is gone. I think he’s gonna be a steal.
@wojespn
The Clippers are trading Landry Shamet to the Nets for No. 19, source tells ESPN.
And Tyrell Terry.
@wojespn
The Clippers are trading Landry Shamet to the Nets for No. 19, source tells ESPN.
And Clippers trade #19 to the Pistons for Luke Kennard
@wojespn
The Clippers are trading Landry Shamet to the Nets for No. 19, source tells ESPN.
damn
The Clippers are trading Landry Shamet to the Nets for No. 19, source tells ESPN.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
44s
The Pistons will get the No. 19 pick, giving them three in the Top 20 now, per source.
@ShamsCharania
·
31s
Sources: Detroit is selecting Saddiq Bey with the No. 19 pick in the NBA Draft.
@wojespn
·
21s
Miami is targeting Precious Achiuwa at No. 20, source tells ESPN.
Only two more players going in front of us.
I think it's going to be Maxey if here's there. Kentucky connection.
Yeah he played for St. Johns. Big family they all have crazy names.
Me too, he’s a gamer. I don’t love his shot, but he has size, some wiggle and can defend. RJ Hampton also tempting. Terry is undersized, but has been compared to Steph Curry, so that’s nice.
Need someone who can break a defense down off the dribble and shoot the ball.
Fuck. Alright, I'm down with Hampton or Terry
@ShamsCharania
·
10s
Sources: Denver is selecting Zeke Nnaji with the No. 22 pick in the NBA Draft.
I agree.
Even if they do, the Westbrook rumors will be there because Thibs is going to demand an established PG
Nice
Okay...I know nothing about him, but my friend likes him a lot
@WindhorstESPN
·
1m
Knicks talking to Minnesota about moving pick No. 23 for picks 25 & 33, sources said.
He's a Timberwolve anyway. So doesn't matter for the Knicks.
Nice
So moved up two in 1st and four in second. Amazing trade in hindsight. Wonder who they were targeting with the 23rd trade up?
@WindhorstESPN
·
1m
Knicks talking to Minnesota about moving pick No. 23 for picks 25 & 33, sources said.
27/38 for 25/33. Totally would do that.
Three dimensional chess
Nice trading by Rose.
Wait, was Fields the last Stanford guy we had? I feel like there was another?
Landry Fields was a great contributor for a second rounder.
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
Sources: New Orleans picking RJ Hampton at No. 24 and trading him to Denver.
Yup. Or they had two guys that were close.
Quote:
Alright. Go with Terry. Let's hope he winds up better than our last Stanford guy, Landry Fields.
Landry Fields was a great contributor for a second rounder.
True. He was decent for a couple of years...at least he sucked with Toronto.
Hampton is gone too, now what?
Quickley? Nwora? Terry seems awfully slow.
@Sam_Vecenie
Remember: Kenny Payne coached Immanuel Quickley last year at Kentucky, and Quickley gets absolutely rave reviews from any source you talk to about him as a kid. Not surprised at all the Knicks wanted him. Had him locked in at 38 for a while.
Im taking this back. I don't know much about Quickley. I did want Terry or Bane but it sounds like Quickley can bring some of the same stuff to the table.
Terry, Bane or McDaniels!
Falling asleep over here...
@JeremyWoo
My understanding is Immanuel Quickley won a number of teams over with remarkable shooting displays in private workouts over the past month. The Kentucky connections within the Knicks’ front office and coaching staff certainly mattered. NY betting on his intangibles and jumper.
Falling asleep over here...
Dealt for 25 (Quickley) and 33
Conference games 18.4 ppg and shot 47.8% on 3s
@JeremyWoo
My understanding is Immanuel Quickley won a number of teams over with remarkable shooting displays in private workouts over the past month. The Kentucky connections within the Knicks’ front office and coaching staff certainly mattered. NY betting on his intangibles and jumper.
He can shoot it and play defense, that’s what they need. I hope they keep 33 and get another PG. Tre Jones, Terry, and Cassius Winston are still available. Still surprised they didn’t take RJ Hampton.
Was hoping for Maxey though. So close.
Better athlete than what people say
Sounds good to me
@wojespn
·
7s
Boston is moving the 30th pick, per source.
@wojespn
·
26s
Grizzlies are targeting Desmond Bane here, per source.
Fuck. So close to Maxey. So close to Hampton. So close to Terry....
That draft nerd Kevin O’Conner had Terry ranked 8th in this draft. The NBA is such a crap shoot. And why can’t they certify these trades so we know who’s drafting, it’s so stupid.
Well, they traded down from 23 to 25 and Hampton went 24, so yeah, techncally, but he only had to go down one spot to reach us!
@wojespn
·
28s
The Knicks are targeting Daniel Oturu at No. 33, source tells ESPN.
@wojespn
·
28s
The Knicks are targeting Daniel Oturu at No. 33, source tells ESPN.
Not bad. A C. I know Bilas likes him a lot
But what do I know
Good.
@NYPost_Berman
At 33, Knicks take Minnesota big man Daniel Oturu. He's a nice player who improved his outside shooting as season wore on. Would've taken Vernon Carey Jr. if he fell 1 more slot.
Hey - they Knicks didn’t do the things that I really hoped they wouldn’t do tonight. I’ll fucking take it.
Oturu?
@NYPost_Berman
·
1m
At 33, Knicks take Minnesota big man Daniel Oturu. He's a nice player who improved his outside shooting as season wore on. Would've taken Vernon Carey Jr. if he fell 1 more slot.
WTF? Why? Trading a high second round pick for a likely lower second round in 2023?
@WindhorstESPN
·
2m
Detroit's 2023 second rounder will be sent to Knicks via Clippers in this deal
Quote:
2023 2nd coming back
WTF? Why? Trading a high second round pick for a likely lower second round in 2023?
It's for the Pistons 2nd round pick so it should be low but still makes no sense.
There was a lot of quality left on the board
windhorst
Quote:
In comment 15051000 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
2023 2nd coming back
WTF? Why? Trading a high second round pick for a likely lower second round in 2023?
It's for the Pistons 2nd round pick so it should be low
Who's to say? it's 3 years away!
Weird move.
Weird move.
They need to round out the roster and even so, the best they could do for a high second round pick is a very distant second rounder?
So all the trading you ended up moving up 2 spots in the first and for 38 and a 2nd 2 years from now.
Not sure I agree.
Not sure I agree.
schmeelk doesn't know what he's talking about. This is not a smart move.
Not sure I agree.
Or draft and stash a foreigner you like the upside of
My fear is they are building around acquiring Westbrook
My friend said it best. He said we went from Belichick to O'Brien in a matter of minutes.
Quote:
What was the benefit of moving back from 23 to 25?.?
My friend said it best. He said we went from Belichick to O'Brien in a matter of minutes.
This is dead on ..
Unless they figure having the 23 2nd,which may be the double draft is a better asset
Seems like they could be having some fun here
What am I missing?
The NBA is having trouble posting the trades....so they still have 33 with original pick
What am I missing?
The NBA is having trouble posting the trades....so they still have 33 with original pick
They traded the center to LAC for a 2023 2nd rd pick (Pistons pick LAC owned)
The minimum age for the NBA draft is being reduced from 19 to 18 in 2022. Thus, you’ll have the last crop of “one and done” players in the draft that year AND the newly eligible top high school players who otherwise would have been in the 2023 draft.
Unless I'm missing something.
chess or checkers? - ( New Window )
Knicks also likely have Dallas' first rounder in 2023
double draft: 2022 or 2023? - ( New Window )
“I learned a lot about Coach through this pandemic,’’ Toppin said of Thibodeau. “I understand he’s a defensive coach, and that’s one of my biggest things I need to work on. He’s going to make sure that I lock in and make sure that I become great one day. I feel like if I get that defensive scheme down, I’m going to be a really good player one day, a really great player one day.’’
Knicks also likely have Dallas' first rounder in 2023
double draft: 2022 or 2023? - ( New Window )
From what I read the NBA isn't changing that rule at all. There is a discrepancy with medicals that the players will not give up. Maybe this gets resolved but as of now it sounds like a stalemate.
Tim Legler just said the same thing on Sports Center.
Curious to see what we do next. Can they somehow move randle? Do we go FVV or find a cheaper starting vet pg somewhere. Do we make any big signings at all. Outside of FVV i dont really see anyone worth big money. Wood makes zero sense now. Id still like to see them make a run at Hayward.
Why did he drop to #8?
Or, the premise is wrong, and he was not the "best?"
And/or, it wasn't really a drop to get Obi Toppin at #8?
Any thoughts much appreciated!
Why did he drop to #8?
Or, the premise is wrong, and he was not the "best?"
And/or, it wasn't really a drop to get Obi Toppin at #8?
Any thoughts much appreciated!
1. he is 22, NBA gms are obsessed with upside..
2. His Defense is suspect, but if he just becomes an average defender hr is an all star and if his defense was better he would of been a consensus 1st overall pick..
Most likely cap related
So, if the Knicks want to pay FVV and the Raps don't they should get him.
If the Knicks want Russ, they can wait and see if HOU is gonna ditch him at a discount.
What's not clear to me is what they do if neither of them work out. What PG can we get? Maybe Conley?
Has anyone taken the time to try to find an offensive starved team with a similarly ehh contract like Randles who might want to swap a guy.
So, if the Knicks want to pay FVV and the Raps don't they should get him.
If the Knicks want Russ, they can wait and see if HOU is gonna ditch him at a discount.
What's not clear to me is what they do if neither of them work out. What PG can we get? Maybe Conley?
I want nothing to do with Westbrook. There is just so much not to like about that fit from the insane contract to not making others around him better. If we want a one man show and want to put asses in the seats then go for it. But if you want this team to develop, buy into defense, and maintain cap flexibility then Westbrook makes no sense. It is way too shortsighted.
Will be interesting today who of the team option guys they keep, If Payton is gone you habe to thibk the Knicks think they have a shot..
Quote:
I still kinda think the Raptors will pay him. And Lamelo going to CHA would indicate no Russ for them.
So, if the Knicks want to pay FVV and the Raps don't they should get him.
If the Knicks want Russ, they can wait and see if HOU is gonna ditch him at a discount.
What's not clear to me is what they do if neither of them work out. What PG can we get? Maybe Conley?
I want nothing to do with Westbrook. There is just so much not to like about that fit from the insane contract to not making others around him better. If we want a one man show and want to put asses in the seats then go for it. But if you want this team to develop, buy into defense, and maintain cap flexibility then Westbrook makes no sense. It is way too shortsighted.
I don't agree with Westbrook not making others better. He's no Chris Paul in that way, but he led the league in assists and averaged 10+ assists for his last 4 years in OKC. He's still a great player. The contract is terrible, for sure. I'd prefer FVV, if he wants to leave TOR, but if HOU is giving Westbrook away at a discount, I'd definitely entertain bringing him here.
FVV
SG who can shoot
RJ
Toppin
Mitch
Then hope some of the youth makes strides off the bench. Frank, Knox, Quickley, Ignas
Link - ( New Window )
FVV
SG who can shoot
RJ
Toppin
Mitch
Then hope some of the youth makes strides off the bench. Frank, Knox, Quickley, Ignas
regarding guard, I'd like them to try and keep Dotson if they can get him on a reasonable deal. Him and Ellington would be decent stopgaps.
- 26 years old
- winning championship player. Never been on a losing team.
- Can play the point or off the ball seamlessly.
- elite 3pt shooter.
- excellent on ball and team defender.
What is the risk of offering him a big deal? They only competition they seem to have is Toronto and maybe Detroit. Make him take less from Toronto or make Toronto match a big deal.
If you want to compare him to Russ- the problems are fit, contract, age, and defense. You can probably get FVV at 15-25 million less a year and not have to give up a single asset for him.
- 26 years old
- winning championship player. Never been on a losing team.
- Can play the point or off the ball seamlessly.
- elite 3pt shooter.
- excellent on ball and team defender.
What is the risk of offering him a big deal? They only competition they seem to have is Toronto and maybe Detroit. Make him take less from Toronto or make Toronto match a big deal.
If you want to compare him to Russ- the problems are fit, contract, age, and defense. You can probably get FVV at 15-25 million less a year and not have to give up a single asset for him.
VanVleet can be had if the Knicks go all out for him.
Raptors won't go max.
Moving Randle will be harder.
I agree. I just wonder if the Raptors decide to pay him and keep him to play along Siakam when Lowry is gone. This is the last year of Lowry's contract. I guess it's possible that they don't pay him. But if the money is equal, you'd have to think he stays in TOR.
He's a solid nba player on a pretty good deal at 4 M. Would have been 1M if they cut him. So, keeping him as an expiring for 3M more is a no brainer, IMO
I knew hiring an agent would put the Knicks in better standing with the rest of the league.What a wonderful plan Jimmy.Phil would never do this
Quote:
Why did he drop to #8?
Or, the premise is wrong, and he was not the "best?"
And/or, it wasn't really a drop to get Obi Toppin at #8?
Any thoughts much appreciated!
1. he is 22, NBA gms are obsessed with upside..
2. His Defense is suspect, but if he just becomes an average defender hr is an all star and if his defense was better he would of been a consensus 1st overall pick..
exactly this. GMs like him, but top of draft their is an obsession with age and upside, and his defense a known ?. so like for the cavs, who have no defense and are lacking toughness- the preference was the young player with upside then the higher floor guy (who btw still has a lot of upside so i find it a bit silly)
The Giants had to rebuild their whole program. So do the Knicks.
Teams like the TWolves and Cavs need to build from within - no one is coming to rescue them. Obviously no one has come to rescue the Knicks in the past decade we've been caught in this cycle since The Decision, but there's always been better options for wayward stars.
Yeah, there was a noticeable shift in philosophy. Toppin can start and contribute day one, and Quickley can come off the bench and contribute day one. No projects or draft-and-stashes, just two guys who can play.
I hated the idea of trading up for Toppin, but he was a no-brainer pick at eight.
there's a name I had forgotten, lol.
It's a pretty raggedy 'depth chart.'
Knicks' 'depth chart' ??? - ( New Window )
I knew hiring an agent would put the Knicks in better standing with the rest of the league.What a wonderful plan Jimmy.Phil would never do this
I have no idea what you are trying to say here.
I am interested to see Toppin and I actually think he will be a candidate for rookie of the year, because of his offense and playing time. They just need to unload Julius Randle and fast.
I'm intrigued by the Kentucky kid, because if you think about the guards that they have recently produced such as hero and Murray, there is a chance this kid could be something and we need shooting. Cal was raving about this guy more than Maxey.
Barrett was a nice restart in taking the right player. I think Toppin was another wise choice. They hired a defensive minded coach who hopefully can get them to start looking functional defensively.
If they sign a guy like FVV, they aren't that far away from being a playoff team. You get Randle off the books in 2021, sign another good FA and now we're talking.
1 FVV via FA for 4*25mm
2 Westbrook + Tucker for Randle and at least one of the Dallas picks (note: I hate the idea of RW coming)
3 Draft compensation + one of our crappy young assets (Frank or preferably, DSJ) for Lonzo Ball or Eric Bledsoe
I would be excited for (1), bracing myself for (2) and though I continue to have shooting concerns, would be okay with (3) if Ball.
I think Taj, Payton, and Ellington might be kept to actually be on the team this season. If they keep Portis...it's gotta be because they have a larger trade in mind.
Quote:
If they let go of all of their non guaranteed players, besides bullock, you know they are going to be agressive
I think Taj, Payton, and Ellington might be kept to actually be on the team this season. If they keep Portis...it's gotta be because they have a larger trade in mind.
I could see them letting taj go and then resign him to a smaller contract
Randle for Conley and a pick?
I am interested to see Toppin and I actually think he will be a candidate for rookie of the year, because of his offense and playing time. They just need to unload Julius Randle and fast.
I'm intrigued by the Kentucky kid, because if you think about the guards that they have recently produced such as hero and Murray, there is a chance this kid could be something and we need shooting. Cal was raving about this guy more than Maxey.
I liked the Toppin pick, but really was hoping for Halliburton at that spot. But once Cleveland passed on Toppin, knew there was no way Knicks were passing up Toppin. Don't know much about Quickley, but was hoping Knicks stayed at 23 and took either Hampton or Desmond Bane. Still don't understand trading away that second round pick, when a guy like Nico Mannion was still on the board. We'll see how it all works out
That's a good thought.
I'd do Randle + Ntilikina and/or DSJ for Conley + O'Neal. We have the cap room to absorb the extra $.
Did I just greedy with O'Neal? Probably.
They have to move Randle and either DSJ or Frank.
Add a solid vet PG to help to develop RJ,Robinson,and Toppin.
Quickley is more of a 2 in the NBA and they need shooters and that's what he is.
I like the draft but FA is going to make the difference
They have to move Randle and either DSJ or Frank.
Add a solid vet PG to help to develop RJ,Robinson,and Toppin.
Quickley is more of a 2 in the NBA and they need shooters and that's what he is.
I like the draft but FA is going to make the difference
Sorry meant Ellington
They have to move Randle and either DSJ or Frank.
Add a solid vet PG to help to develop RJ,Robinson,and Toppin.
Quickley is more of a 2 in the NBA and they need shooters and that's what he is.
I like the draft but FA is going to make the difference
Sorry meant Ellington
Wall and Beal for Randle, porter, Payton taj, smith jr, Barrett, both Dallas picks and Knicks 1st rounder?
Wall, Frank
Beal, quickley, Dotson, Bullock
TBD, iggy
Toppin, Knox
Mitch, Wooten
After looking at this I wouldn’t do it, but curious to know what others think
I am in the minority here as I don't want Van Vleet, I just feel he is a bit of a product of the Raptors system and he is also injury prone. I think he is good where he is. Also, he is not a true penetrating PG.
I agree with a poster that the draft and some other things that went on last night increase the chances of Russ coming here. Again, I hate that idea.
The Pelicans are really getting on my nerves, drafting Kira was so indulgent on their part with 4 other PGs on their roster. I think sometimes Griffin just gets ahead of himself thinking he is the smartest guy in the world and the joy of screwing up other teams. I wish the Knicks would thrown an insane offer sheet at Brandon Ingram.
I believe the starting PG for the Knicks next season will be DJ Augustine or Jeff Teague.
Link - ( New Window )
Wall and Beal for Randle, porter, Payton taj, smith jr, Barrett, both Dallas picks and Knicks 1st rounder?
Wall, Frank
Beal, quickley, Dotson, Bullock
TBD, iggy
Toppin, Knox
Mitch, Wooten
After looking at this I wouldn’t do it, but curious to know what others think
I definitely would.
That was really annoying. Schmitz doesn't shut up. He just talks and talks and talks and then is like, "Is that right?" Yes, Obi got to discuss some stuff but it was like a lawyer leading the witness. Obi came across very well. I appreciate the video though.
Perry loves Fox, but doubt we have the bullets to get him without giving up RJ.
Perry loves Fox, but doubt we have the bullets to get him without giving up RJ.
Also no incentive for Sacramento to trade him. If they put the max extension in front of him he's not going to bypass it and sign a QO.
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Mike Schmitz from ESPN does this series and has good film walkthroughs showing highs and lows of prospects with the prospect. Here's the video of Toppin, I've watched it before and it's a good one. Smart and likable kid. Link - ( New Window )
That was really annoying. Schmitz doesn't shut up. He just talks and talks and talks and then is like, "Is that right?" Yes, Obi got to discuss some stuff but it was like a lawyer leading the witness. Obi came across very well. I appreciate the video though.
ESPN rolled him out there as the younger hip basketball version of Mel Kiper jr. wasn't that impressed with Schmitz at all last night. If you look at his late mocks, he was way off. The ESPN coverage last night sucked peiod and I'm not usually a comlainer of draft coverage. Way too little reporters like Woj and Wind and way too much Bilas and Jay Williams and their power conference love.
I can't take 3 / $130M of Wall for that.
I'm all about using some cap to obtain assets but doing favors that will haunt 3 years out is too much.
Do you mean with the G League? Is there even going to be a G League season?
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. Guessing it's a 2-way deal.
Do you mean with the G League? Is there even going to be a G League season?
They changed the rules for this year they can basically stay with nba team for the entire seaaon..
can only be active for 50 games i believe but no day limit
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In comment 15051285 Heisenberg said:
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Mike Schmitz from ESPN does this series and has good film walkthroughs showing highs and lows of prospects with the prospect. Here's the video of Toppin, I've watched it before and it's a good one. Smart and likable kid. Link - ( New Window )
That was really annoying. Schmitz doesn't shut up. He just talks and talks and talks and then is like, "Is that right?" Yes, Obi got to discuss some stuff but it was like a lawyer leading the witness. Obi came across very well. I appreciate the video though.
ESPN rolled him out there as the younger hip basketball version of Mel Kiper jr. wasn't that impressed with Schmitz at all last night. If you look at his late mocks, he was way off. The ESPN coverage last night sucked peiod and I'm not usually a comlainer of draft coverage. Way too little reporters like Woj and Wind and way too much Bilas and Jay Williams and their power conference love.
I agree, thought ESPN coverage was terrible. They all seemed to ignore the fact that Tyrese Haliburton is not a true PG, because he was a good kid. Also, they did a terrible job with the trades, they need a solution for that so we all know who is picking. Woj was also really off his game, he seemed confused.
that's not what NBA fans want to see. I want to see bilas and someone arguing about the player fit on the team he was picked by. It was so boring.
2) Utah for Mike Conley- Allows Utah to trim 14 million. Who's playing point for them though?
3) Charlotte for Terry Rozier- rumored to be discussed at the deadline. With Lamelo Ball and Graham- this might make positional sense for them.
I would be all for any of these options. I just don't want to watch another year of Julius Randle.
All they did was bitch and moan about the question. We aren't madame cleo. Super star? There are only like 7 super stars in the NBA. If we knew that they would have went higher in the draft.
I mean what the fuck was that? Just name some fuckin players with high upside. Holy shit.
Conley could make sense
@StevePopper
Newsday has learned Knicks are waiving Elfrid Payton and Kenny Wooten and not picking up option on Bobby Portis. Also, no qualifying offer for Damyean Dotson, who is an unrestricted FA now. More decisions to come...
@StevePopper
Newsday has learned Knicks are waiving Elfrid Payton and Kenny Wooten and not picking up option on Bobby Portis. Also, no qualifying offer for Damyean Dotson, who is an unrestricted FA now. More decisions to come...
That is a lot of open cap space
They haven't decided to keep Taj yet. Just no word on what they're doing yet.
Russ
FVV
Conley trade?
Not sure what else is out there but its a gaping hole on the roster and the money is available to be spent.
Yep I am a tad surprised considering that he didn't exactly make a tremendous amount of money relatively. Could just be an issue that they felt that they had enough PF's on the roster and they are giving Wooten the courtesy of getting on the market now versus after teams have started signing players.
About $40M. Could create another $2-3M or so if they stretched the cap hits from waiving the guys who had a little bit of money guaranteed.
I think it's close to 60 million in cap space.
We can go in on Wood, VanVleet, Etc
I think it's close to 60 million in cap space.
We can go in on Wood, VanVleet, Etc
39 million cap space
I hope I am wrong but it doesn't sound like the Knicks are frontrunners for Van Vleet. Begley and Berman seem to think the Knicks aren't all in on him. From Berman
"But NBA sources have long indicated VanVleet may not be the maximum contract-type of player to come along and change a franchise’s direction single-handedly. As much as the Knicks like him, they also are aware he’s probably best off on a club already established."
I am curious on the plan at PG.
I do not want Rozier.
The cap space gives them a lot of flexibility.
I'd still love to see an offer sheet to Brandon Ingram.
So all based on Game 6 3 point shooting. Got it.
Terrible. I wish him a strong recovery. One of the most unique players in recent history, nobody goes nuclear quite like Klay. I've always thought if there was one guy who could challenge Wilt's 100 points record, it would be him. I hope we still see a few more Nuclear Klay games in the future, but this is going to be tough to bounce back from.
I was thinking about this earlier but if you're Boston, why not take Randle straight up? Most of his money isn't guaranteed after this year anyways and he's a useful player for them off the bench. It's not like they'll have cap space to improve the roster if Hayward walks for nothing anyways.
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and saying hey we can sign Hayward outright, but if you take randle, we will throw in a future 1st
I was thinking about this earlier but if you're Boston, why not take Randle straight up? Most of his money isn't guaranteed after this year anyways and he's a useful player for them off the bench. It's not like they'll have cap space to improve the roster if Hayward walks for nothing anyways.
This conversation is more about Kemba, I have a feeling. Boston wants some assets to get Harden.
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guy was going toe to toe with the Warriors. played incredibly well.
So all based on Game 6 3 point shooting. Got it.
What exactly do you not like about FVV?
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In comment 15051412 GGGGmen said:
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guy was going toe to toe with the Warriors. played incredibly well.
So all based on Game 6 3 point shooting. Got it.
What exactly do you not like about FVV?
I'd say he's a fine complimentary piece and the Knicks need winning basketball players, but I just don't understand clamoring or breaking the bank for an average or slightly above average player.
Quote:
In comment 15051412 GGGGmen said:
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guy was going toe to toe with the Warriors. played incredibly well.
So all based on Game 6 3 point shooting. Got it.
What exactly do you not like about FVV?
I know not directed at me, but I have been outspoken on FVV. I like him a lot, but he benefits from the Toronto system. He is not a true penetrating PG and definitely not work the max that it will take to get him. We have to stop overpaying guys and FVV would be a overpay. The only FA worth the money this year are Anthony Davis (Not getting him) and Brandon Ingram (restricted and Griffin rather give up his first born then let the Knicks get Ingram)
Not a lot of FA options out there. I'd pay FVV a 3 year deal and in that time maybe we draft the PG of the future.
NEED to improve that position or this team will continue to flounder.
Not a lot of FA options out there. I'd pay FVV a 3 year deal and in that time maybe we draft the PG of the future.
NEED to improve that position or this team will continue to flounder.
But he's not a great passer or penetrator.
There's a blues song to be made re: having 40 mil to spend and no one to spend it on.
He's a great leaper, but unclear if he had any other real skills
You want to wait around for Anthony Davis or a similar caliber player to use your cap space? You'll be waiting a long time. And if lightning strikes and one of those superstars does decide to come to NY, you will always be able to move FVV- the guy is 26.
Lastly the Knicks are clearly not going to use their cap space to acquire picks or facilitate trades with sweeteners. That has been made pretty clear.
There's a blues song to be made re: having 40 mil to spend and no one to spend it on.
I think there is a chance they see Randle as an expiring asset for the next deadline day disgruntled star trade. I'm bracing for him to be dazzling us with spinning into double teams right up until Feb.
No, Dotson could've been tendered and then would be a RFA whereas Harkless those are just his bird rights that the Knicks could retain but can renounce at any time (which they almost certainly will). Dotson and the others from today had deadlines on those decisions due today.
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think the Knicks are going to be very active in the trade market. It's hard to see Randle being here come opening day, and equally hard to picture Frank/DSJ being the starting PG.
There's a blues song to be made re: having 40 mil to spend and no one to spend it on.
I think there is a chance they see Randle as an expiring asset for the next deadline day disgruntled star trade. I'm bracing for him to be dazzling us with spinning into double teams right up until Feb.
He has to be traded before opening night
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as FAs w/cap holds Dotson @$3M & Harkless @$16.5M Dotson was waived. Does Harkless money count against the cap as it's listed as a cap hold?
No, Dotson could've been tendered and then would be a RFA whereas Harkless those are just his bird rights that the Knicks could retain but can renounce at any time (which they almost certainly will). Dotson and the others from today had deadlines on those decisions due today.
Thanks!
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think the Knicks are going to be very active in the trade market. It's hard to see Randle being here come opening day, and equally hard to picture Frank/DSJ being the starting PG.
There's a blues song to be made re: having 40 mil to spend and no one to spend it on.
I think there is a chance they see Randle as an expiring asset for the next deadline day disgruntled star trade. I'm bracing for him to be dazzling us with spinning into double teams right up until Feb.
You don’t draft a soon to be 23 year old Toppin to not start. Unless the plans is to have Toppin at SF, RJ SG and a PG, Randle being here doesn’t make sense.
I don't disagree, but what I see is this. With Taj gone (the only cut that surprised me a little), Randle is the only one on the roster besides Mitch who plays C. In addition, Randle is a Kentucky guy and (at least if you believe the Post) that's a factor on the Knicks at the moment.
there's maybe 5 guys in the league that are worse options than Frank as starting PG. DSJ is one of them.
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to camp with DSJ as our starting pg. That sent me to sleep really depressed.
there's maybe 5 guys in the league that are worse options than Frank as starting PG. DSJ is one of them.
you're being generous.
Obi
Randle
Robinson
DSJ
Frank
Knox
Quickley
Iggy
Bullock
Jared Harper - 2 way
Myles Powell - 2 way
And Frank is the longest tenured Knick. Let that sink in.
Did you watch the playoffs? He practically dragged the Raptors to a deep run..
Today at 5p ET
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I know they pushed it back
Today at 5p ET
Was that pushed back so they can trade him prior to FA tomorrow night? If he opts out he is a UFA? What happens if he is traded prior? Can whatever team he gets traded to in theory trade for him and lose him for 0?
Was that pushed back so they can trade him prior to FA tomorrow night? If he opts out he is a UFA? What happens if he is traded prior? Can whatever team he gets traded to in theory trade for him and lose him for 0?
My read on the situation is that yes, it was so they can trade him and get something in return rather than him leaving for nothing. He'd have to opt-in and then be traded or opt-in and agree to an extension. I don't think he can be traded and then opt-out from his new team.
Just because I’m bored, if knicks signed davis and hayward, dj augustin. How competitive of a team would that be? Is that top 4 in the East?
Just because I’m bored, if knicks signed davis and hayward, dj augustin. How competitive of a team would that be? Is that top 4 in the East?
It works of you can move Randle to Boston or elsewhere.
It depends what Hayward is looking for in free agency..
If he opts out he could just look for a long term deal..
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Every single time I've watched him I've come away thoroughly unimpressed. Very average basketball player.
Did you watch the playoffs? He practically dragged the Raptors to a deep run..
Apparently we watched a different playoffs. He had good production given his role in the raptors system which benefits him significantly. He still does not penetrate or distribute that well and is a very average player in my opinion. I just don't get the allure.
Stein is saying it would be a free agent
@VinceGoodwill
The Minnesota Timberwolves have made guard Malik Beasley available in discussions, and the New York Knicks are one of several interested teams, according to sources. He averaged 20 after being traded from Denver to Minnesota last season
I think RJ comes off the bench as the backup 3 or 4 in that scenario. He can still get plenty of mins.
Pistons and Kings. But the Knicks and Hawks have the most by far.
I'm not opposed to Hayward. He's only 30 and can still be a really good all around player. But if you have a lineup of Russ, RJ, Hayward, Toppin and Mitch or worse Randle- they are going to get torched defensively.
It would worry me that Boston is letting him walk though...
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who have cap space??
Pistons and Kings. But the Knicks and Hawks have the most by far.
I'm not opposed to Hayward. He's only 30 and can still be a really good all around player. But if you have a lineup of Russ, RJ, Hayward, Toppin and Mitch or worse Randle- they are going to get torched defensively.
It would worry me that Boston is letting him walk though...
Boston has no say in it..
Pistons i believe have like 10 million because of them taking ariza
I think it could also be a sign-and-trade to some other team as well.
Yeah just came to post this. Would fit in really well next to RJ
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Hayward opted out. Gotta be Knicks, Atlanta or Boston. I bet we find out soon.
I think it could also be a sign-and-trade to some other team as well.
Seems that’s what is coming
Beasley is interesting. Has played well with minutes. Good shooter. Could fit well with RJ and i cant imagine has a high cost.
@espn_macmahon
·
29m
One strong tie between the Knicks and Gordon Hayward: new NYK associate head coach Johnnie Bryant, the former Jazz assistant who oversaw Hayward's development in Utah.
Also, Walt Perrin, who is now with the Knicks, was Utah's head of player personnel in Utah when they drafted Hayward.
Tony Jones
@Tjonesonthenba
The Utah Jazz have an agreement to trade Ed Davis to the New York Knicks, League Sources tell The Athletic
Tony Jones
@Tjonesonthenba
The Utah Jazz have an agreement to trade Ed Davis to the New York Knicks, League Sources tell The Athletic
What else do we get from the Jazz? A first round pick?
Stupid move unless there is a pick involved
They must move Randle or buy him out.
But yeah if we arent getting an asset for taking Davis this is a bad start to FA/Trade season.
Adrian Wojnarowski
The Utah Jazz are trading Ed Davis and two 2023 second-round picks to the New York Knicks, sources tell
@WindhorstESPN
and me.
Adrian Wojnarowski
The Utah Jazz are trading Ed Davis and two 2023 second-round picks to the New York Knicks, sources tell
@WindhorstESPN
and me.
We're going to own the second round of 2023!
Boy im really trying to stick to my not crush this FO for a yaer and it did work out mostly ok last night when i didnt kill them for the trade up from 27 and then they essentially turned 27 and 38 into 25 and 33 for free. But unless they needed these seconds for a different deal, i dont get it.
4. 4 second round picks in 2023 altogether in the "double draft"
Boy im really trying to stick to my not crush this FO for a yaer and it did work out mostly ok last night when i didnt kill them for the trade up from 27 and then they essentially turned 27 and 38 into 25 and 33 for free. But unless they needed these seconds for a different deal, i dont get it.
I'm not understanding the hostility. This FO knows what they want to do. Do you really think they are dumb enough to take on $5 mil now and go after a FA and lose out because they were $5 mil short? Come on.
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Gives them freedom to move up in the next couple drafts
4. 4 second round picks in 2023 altogether in the "double draft"
What double draft? I keep seeing this being said but nothing has been agreed upon. And from what I read there is a stalemate and will not happen. Maybe I am not up to date but that is the last I saw as the most current.
Always helpful to build up picks.
If it was a first id be thrilled.
Always good to have extra picks, that part i def like.
If it was a first id be thrilled.
But isn't that the point of taking in "bad contracts"? It has to be done now for 1 year contracts. We shouldn't be taking on multiple year guys. It should be 1 year contracts and the purpose of that is so teams have money to spend in FA hence the timing.
Always good to have extra picks, that part i def like.
I thought the double draft was 2022 if at all?
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In comment 15051646 larryflower37 said:
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Gives them freedom to move up in the next couple drafts
4. 4 second round picks in 2023 altogether in the "double draft"
What double draft? I keep seeing this being said but nothing has been agreed upon. And from what I read there is a stalemate and will not happen. Maybe I am not up to date but that is the last I saw as the most current.
TBH, I'm not sure, but I came across this on Twitter:
"This most recent agreement started with the 2017–18 season and will run through 2023–24, with a mutual opt-out AFTER 2022–23. The plan would be for high schoolers to re-enter in the 2023 Draft."
But yeah, I'm essentially parroting what others are saying about high schoolers and about the double draft
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the double draft would be a risky thing to plan on. Sounds like its 50 to 50 to ever happen.
Always good to have extra picks, that part i def like.
I thought the double draft was 2022 if at all?
From the most recent news I could find, 2022 will not happen. 2023 is possible but the stalemate is something like the NBA wants full medicals and the union and agents said hell no. Until there is a breakthrough there the double draft is not happening.
2022 - Just our 1st
2023 - 2 1st, 4 2nd
Not exactly OKC but not bad at all
It fits with who he is as well, which is more encouraging. He seems to be looking to just get value out of moves and want to stockpile assets with value. I wouldn't expect us to give us much value for Randle as he could have potential value as a trade deadline expiring or a piece in a 3 way deal.
To me taking on $5M in salary seems like good value for 2 second rounders. Also to those confused with the move on draft night with our 2nd rounder could easily be a strategy to maximize around a strategy fork in 2023. Either you can be a FA destination with RJ and Mitch as a core or you dump everyone for whatever you can get and reload with a new core all at once.
IMO what I'd expect to see with Hayward if this is the thinking is either a 2 year max deal or a longer term non max deal. If it is a longer max deal as other have noted Hayward is the kind of guy that fits alongside any star so he isn't a bad foundational player to bring in if in your estimation you have to scrape the bottom and take on some risk to bring in a "first star" FA.
Probably sending Ante Tomic back. Haha
Since it's a salary dump for utah, not much. It hasn't been reported yet though. Here is speculation:
"My guess is that the Ed Davis deal is a salary dump, a pick will be going out, and it's either Louis Labeyrie, Ognjen Jaramaz, or Yusuf Sanon coming back — those are the guys the Knicks still have the draft rights to. "
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Comment on what NYK gave up for Ed Davis? I saw that there was nothing given up but they’d have to have given up at least a contract or a future pick?
Knicks get 2 2023 2nd round picks for taking on Davis' $5M contract. They now have 2 #1's & 4 #2's in what has been labeled the"double draft" as HS players will be coming out.Davis will replace Gibson as Mitch's backup!Smart move by Leon!
Since it's a salary dump for utah, not much. It hasn't been reported yet though. Here is speculation:
"My guess is that the Ed Davis deal is a salary dump, a pick will be going out, and it's either Louis Labeyrie, Ognjen Jaramaz, or Yusuf Sanon coming back — those are the guys the Knicks still have the draft rights to. "
Quote:
Comment on what NYK gave up for Ed Davis? I saw that there was nothing given up but they’d have to have given up at least a contract or a future pick?
Since it's a salary dump for utah, not much. It hasn't been reported yet though. Here is speculation:
"My guess is that the Ed Davis deal is a salary dump, a pick will be going out, and it's either Louis Labeyrie, Ognjen Jaramaz, or Yusuf Sanon coming back — those are the guys the Knicks still have the draft rights to. "
Noooo. Not Loose Labia!
There is a trainer on twitter apparently big name trainer saying something big is about to go down involving the Knicks
What's worse? Westbrook on his deal or multi-years for Hayward?
Where is this speculation?
Quote:
That Westbrook is going to happen...
What's worse? Westbrook on his deal or multi-years for Hayward?
Westbrook would be way worse.
Quote:
In comment 15051693 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
That Westbrook is going to happen...
What's worse? Westbrook on his deal or multi-years for Hayward?
Westbrook would be way worse.
Westbrook at 44 million means we would have to move Randle, Frank & DSJ
Hayward at 4 years 120 million is probably worse
Both have injury history.
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That Westbrook is going to happen...
Where is this speculation?
Dave Zenon for one. He’s an NBA trainer
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That Westbrook is going to happen...
There is a trainer on twitter apparently big name trainer saying something big is about to go down involving the Knicks
What’s the Twitter handle? And is it involving Westbrook? Kemba? Hayward?
Link - ( New Window )
As a salary dump for them I am interested. We don't have many options right now and while I wouldn't bet on Russ becoming a better teammate there are plenty of players that figure out how to be more selfless to win. I'm intrigued with him and Thibs perhaps making him an even better defender and how no nonsense he is. If Russ ever learned to force his shot less he could be the #1 on a championship team. You can't say that about Hayward, who you likely have to overpay to be the "first star" here as discussed above.
I still see that tweet :)
Maybe do Randle, DSJ, and Bullock for Russ. Sign Hayward. And with whatever is left over try to get Avery Bradley. Or if you have enough $$$ try to get Bogdan. They can stretch Ed Davis if they need a few extra bucks. And then sign a big with the room exception.
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Handle is @davidzenon1 he deleted a tweet saying news coming would make Twitter explode (he has extensive Knicks ties and trains some of the current Knicks)
I still see that tweet :)
Link it
Quote:
In comment 15051711 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Handle is @davidzenon1 he deleted a tweet saying news coming would make Twitter explode (he has extensive Knicks ties and trains some of the current Knicks)
I still see that tweet :)
Link it
Link - ( New Window )
Why do that to your rookie head coach? baaically ask him to coach 2 guya who dont want to be there
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are Rockets to begin the season.
Why do that to your rookie head coach? baaically ask him to coach 2 guya who dont want to be there
I agree it sucks for Silas, but Fertitta seems like a vengeful SOB & probably will instruct the FO not to move either one, unless it's a Godfather like offer.
I think you're wildly underestimating the shit show that would be the reaction to a westbrook trade.
Depends on what goes for Westbrook and what Hayward wanta money wise
Westbrook is still a big name and it is New York..
Have they ever hit?
I’ve only followed him a few months, so this is the first offseason of his supposed intel. He has a lot of vague tweets about his personal life, too - I think he has legit connections, but he’s a bit of an attention whore, too. (Like most folks on Twitter)
They can afford it under the cap if they trade Randle, DSJ for Russ. Pretty easily in fact. I'm sort of resigned to this fate, I'm just hoping we can get some picks from Houston instead of giving them.
Obi
Randle
Robinson
DSJ
Frank
Knox
Quickley
Iggy
Bullock
Jared Harper - 2 way
Myles Powell - 2 way
And Frank is the longest tenured Knick. Let that sink in.
Wow, that’s crazy. Young team.
They can afford it under the cap if they trade Randle, DSJ for Russ. Pretty easily in fact. I'm sort of resigned to this fate, I'm just hoping we can get some picks from Houston instead of giving them.
Plan is probably to field a compeititve team and then when Russ and Hayward are done Rj, Toppin and Mitch will be ready to take over with their other draft picks in the future
They can afford it under the cap if they trade Randle, DSJ for Russ. Pretty easily in fact. I'm sort of resigned to this fate, I'm just hoping we can get some picks from Houston instead of giving them.
Did you really mean Randle at PF or Toppin?
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does sound like the grand plan is Russ-RJ-Hayward-Randle-Mitch
They can afford it under the cap if they trade Randle, DSJ for Russ. Pretty easily in fact. I'm sort of resigned to this fate, I'm just hoping we can get some picks from Houston instead of giving them.
Did you really mean Randle at PF or Toppin?
I meant Toppin. Randle has just invited my brain.
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RJ
Obi
Randle
Robinson
DSJ
Frank
Knox
Quickley
Iggy
Bullock
Jared Harper - 2 way
Myles Powell - 2 way
And Frank is the longest tenured Knick. Let that sink in.
Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
Per league sources: The New York Knicks have tendered a Two-Way qualifying offer to Jared Harper. Harper will now be a restricted free agent.
compares Knicks' long PG search to Jets' long QB search - ( New Window )
Right there with you.
It will be exciting basketball and maddening at times.
But they will grab a playoff spot.
It would be nice to win a little while we rebuild.
Damn it's gotten so bad that Westbrook is a savior.
I also know like nothing about Quikley. College ball was a wash for me last year.
Thanks in advance
Just because you have a "name" player on your team scoring 20+ points a game doesn't mean you have a winning team or a playoff team.
Westbrook shot 25.8% from 3pt last year. In an average game he took 3.7 3pt shots and made 1.0.
He had the worst 3pt percentage in the league among players taking three 3pts per game or more. (Except for injured Steph Curry, whose percentage dropped to 25 percent from 43 percent the year before.)
Westbrook also tied for second in the league in turnovers per game.
Far, far from a sure thing that adding a declining RW will translate to wins.
I also know like nothing about Quikley. College ball was a wash for me last year.
Thanks in advance
This article should help.
Link - ( New Window )
Ive been all for Melo but at this point he better be ok coming off the bench
Kind of surprised Melo doesnt want to ring chase. I respect the fact that he wants to play for the Knicks.
Yeah basically leaves you still with 33 million in space roughly if Hayward took 3 years at 25 million, can go after FVV and presumably still have 10 million to fill out roster
I agree. Only thing I'm thinking is maybe 30 per for 3 years makes him feel more secure than one year of 34 and then 20ish potentially after that.
if you get a 3 year or 4 year deal he is making more money, plus only 2 teams on the market with enough cap space..
Sign and trades with a cap strapped team at that price is hard to do..
Same thing happened with Horford last year, Boston media said he didnt have a deal lined up and truth was he did
Yeah the only way id consider that for Randle is if you were getting FVV and even then i think its a kinda steep price.
If he just signed as a FA straight, I'm not sure why NYK would be a draw for him unless they totally blew ATL out of the water.
Yeah the only way id consider that for Randle is if you were getting FVV and even then i think its a kinda steep price.
I'll take the over :)
Can't do that trade.
I was thinking they would be agreeable in taking Wiggins as a salary dump in order to get Wiseman.
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have pretty much no way to make a S&T work unless BOS is dying to get Wiggins, im assuming they arent.
I was thinking they would be agreeable in taking Wiggins as a salary dump in order to get Wiseman.
They are over luxury tax, they cant do it
Not from us
Probably not a fit anymore with Toppin, but Bertans at 18 isn't the worst value.
Well, that goes without saying. Haha
I would much rather sign Bertans as a starting SF if Barrett is SG, who is a 3 pt sniper and 6’10”. Especially if he plays 30-35 minutes a game as a starter. Is his defense good? It’s a lot better to pay him $16-$20M per year vs Hayward at $25M per year.
A guy with his string of injuries wants guaranteed years, not just single years with a balloon salary.
@SIChrisMannix
@ChrisBHaynes
Yahoo Sources: The Houston Rockets and Orlando Magic had discussed a trade featuring Russell Westbrook for a package centered around Aaron Gordon, but talks never progressed.
@SIChrisMannix
Quote:
“The Knicks have not engaged—Westbrook is not a priority for New York,” per
@SIChrisMannix
That’d be solid news if true, and nothing against Westbrook
@SIChrisMannix
That's the right move.
Still have no idea what they plan to do at PG.
Forget Hayward, Melo etc. Any vets other than FVV should be on relatively short contracts, no more than 2 years.
I think there's a pretty decent chance FVV underperforms on his next contract. I'm not thrilled about throwing a ton of money at him, but I'm not thrilled about a one year stopgap of DJ Augustin either.
That's a pretty good number, IMO
It has been known to happen, lol
Starting to feel this way too. A little too much gossip not enough facts.
And the return of Tim Hardaway Jr. as well
Tyson Chandler. It was a sign-and-trade...but there were several teams trying to get him.