18 and 9 on 6-11 shooting against arguably the best team in the country. Richmond was a very solid team (knocked off Wisconsin, gave Auburn a tough game) and Toppin had 24 and 12 against them.
I wouldn't worry about his offense. It's legit. Is it good enough to more than make up for his defensive shortcomings though?
Exactly. Toppin will definitely score. The question is whether his
defensive assignment will also score a shit-ton each night and if he's a guy you can't play in the 4th Q of close games (like Kanter) because he will get relentlessly attacked down the stretch.
Thing is with Okoro and Vassell is that Vassell is good defensively
Stay at 8 and 23. There are plenty of good players to be had.
What is the obsession with power forwards?
Damn I look forward to moments like the draft and FA yet always disappointed
Dude was ranked as a top-10 before he got to Arizona, subsequently sucked and now is barely talked about.
I like Nico Mannion, but it’s hard to convince anyone that shot selection is why he shot under 40% from the field. Add in a lack of standout physical traits and poor defense, he probably should’ve gone back to school. But I do think he has talent and his shooting numbers will be better if a coach gets him under control.
The guy is so dynamic offensively, and on the defensive end he at least has active handstand gets deflections and some blocks and if there's someone who can turn him into an avg man on defender its Thibs. That having been said I want Lewis. He fits a dramatic need and has the highest overall ceiling of the guys in that pick range. I'd be on board with Hayes there too.
He's a terrific athlete, but he seems like he has a low BBIQ (especially for the son of a longtime NBA player) and attitude problems. If he gets his head on straight, he could turn into a steal, but I wouldn't want to bet on it happening.
Okoro is really the only pick that I will be unhappy with, I just don't see how he and RJ fit together. The biggest problem for Barrett last year was the team's poor spacing, he would consistently beat his man only to be met at the rim by 4 defenders. Adding Okoro, who plays Barrett's position, does nothing to help that.
At least a guy like Toppin will pull a big man out of the paint because you have to respect his perimeter shooting.
I and most everyone here agree that he's the one guy we don't like in that range. I agree that while I prefer the PG's, I can live with Vassell there because of his length, D, and shooting. At least he'd help with our abominable D and court spacing. We could address the pg at #23 or trade/FA
But if he's your main building block, and I have no reason to think they've soured on him, you have GOT to surround him with shooters to give him room to operate in the lane.
The only player worth 8 and 23 for me is Ball. Not because I'm personally sold on him, but because he's the one guy, if "all" goes well changes the Knicks fortunes in a way the other players in this draft likely cannot. That being said, I don't see any way 8 and 23 lands you Ball
also just said Patrick Williams has been mentioned.
Honestly they could go in one of 6 directions at this point and I wouldn't be surprised. Don't remember the last time it was like this.
Is Macri credible? Serious question
Macri is a friend of mine and he is credible, he has really built up his brand, something I am trying to do. However, I just emailed him that he needs to stop throwing every name out there and really stick to a guy he thinks they are going to take and make his prediction.
The only player worth 8 and 23 for me is Ball. Not because I'm personally sold on him, but because he's the one guy, if "all" goes well changes the Knicks fortunes in a way the other players in this draft likely cannot. That being said, I don't see any way 8 and 23 lands you Ball
I agree with you, but I can see why they want Toppin. He would be a good fit with Robinson and RJ. If you get a PG that can shoot and play Frank at the 2 or 3, you start to have something resembling a balanced line-up.
RE: Yep. I mean, it's no secret that I'm not a big Barrett fan
But if he's your main building block, and I have no reason to think they've soured on him, you have GOT to surround him with shooters to give him room to operate in the lane.
I get this POV and lean in the same direction, but I keep coming back to the SGA draft with Frank in the fold. If Knicks brass isn't sold on RJ yet and they love Okoro, then passing on Okoro because you have RJ is just compounding mistakes.
At a minimum will be a solid wing defender but it's all about the shot - will he be Jaylen Brown (a bad college shooter) or MKG (never developed in the pros)? Every guy from 1 down has warts which is why I don't think I'll get too worked up over whoever we take.
So this 33 yr old Tomic guy has to be some Brock Aller cap move
I don't think it impacts the cap at all. Usually you see these guys (players who will never play in the league) involved in trades where a team has send back *something* in return and doesn't want to send $$. But in this case, there was something tangible going back on both sides of the deal so I have no clue.
RE: So this 33 yr old Tomic guy has to be some Brock Aller cap move
you want to draft another defensive guy who can't shoot? We have that with Ntilikina.
How many times are we going to see Frank score 2 points in 23 minutes next year until we realize it's not worth it?
Been trying to make that point all day. The Knicks are not giving up on RJ for the chance to draft Okoro or Vassell. They need to draft with the mind-set of a balanced lineup. It is why I can see their interest in Toppin,.
you want to draft another defensive guy who can't shoot? We have that with Ntilikina.
How many times are we going to see Frank score 2 points in 23 minutes next year until we realize it's not worth it?
Been trying to make that point all day. The Knicks are not giving up on RJ for the chance to draft Okoro or Vassell. They need to draft with the mind-set of a balanced lineup. It is why I can see their interest in Toppin,.
Agreed, they probably think Toppin can help ASAP on the offensive end (which is probably true). His defense is just really really bad.
any college basketball in a while but agree with Greg's take here RE: RJ and what I've read about the prospects. I liked him more as a prospect, less after seeing him in the NBA. But he could still hit. But you need to surround him with shooters. Okoro seems like not a great fit for our team as currently constructed.
I will say this I'm not sure where the idea that it is easier to teach D comes from though. IMO when you look at the guys that really have improved their D a lot of it comes down to effort. Managing effort - Harden example where he needs to use more of his gas to balance his game. But plenty of "defensive specialists" have expanded their offense and become stars. I think as the game moves more towards shooting and analytics speak to the 3 point shot it's definitely something you can drill and per the 10,000 hour expert theory just get your motion down.
People that accel at defense almost always have that skill because of athleticism, which is the least teachable skill. Secondly, I would say scoring is the most fun thing to do, and some do it very naturally and aren't necessarily high effort players. Defense and effort go hand in hand. Finally, so much of defense is situational, feel, anticipation. Quick mental calculations that I think some aren't as good at or don't focus as much on. Offense is much more about your relationship to the hoop especially in NBA, the old, i'm going to take my shot and hit it and you have to adapt to me to stop me. The exception there is great ball handlers, that game is extremely mental however, there aren't that many players in the NBA that have handles that good.
Frank's. He's an elite athlete, good slasher and finisher, and a decent passer. He just can't shoot to save his life.
He's not my first choice but I'm not as vehemently against picking him as others here. They absolutely 100% need to add shooters this offseason but they can do it with their cap space too.
the problem is that Okoro's offensive strengths mirror Barrett's
Frank's. He's an elite athlete, good slasher and finisher, and a decent passer. He just can't shoot to save his life.
He's not my first choice but I'm not as vehemently against picking him as others here. They absolutely 100% need to add shooters this offseason but they can do it with their cap space too.
I wouldn't worry about his offense. It's legit. Is it good enough to more than make up for his defensive shortcomings though?
If Morey somehow pulls off a trade for Harden without giving up Embiid or Simmons...hand that man Executive of the Decade.
What is the obsession with power forwards?
Damn I look forward to moments like the draft and FA yet always disappointed
I just have a difficult time believing the Knicks are doing this for Obi Toppen.
I like Nico Mannion, but it’s hard to convince anyone that shot selection is why he shot under 40% from the field. Add in a lack of standout physical traits and poor defense, he probably should’ve gone back to school. But I do think he has talent and his shooting numbers will be better if a coach gets him under control.
Berman also projected him to the Knicks.
Berman also projected him to the Knicks.
KOC does as well. Thibs apparently loves him.
As I said on Twitter back in August
“ Big Okoro fan but it's fair to have concerns regarding a starting 5 that has Barrett, Okoro and Mitch. A lot of pressure to find shooters.”
A guy like Bane would be awesome at 23 if we landed Okoro at 8
Berman also projected him to the Knicks.
Okoro is really the only pick that I will be unhappy with, I just don't see how he and RJ fit together. The biggest problem for Barrett last year was the team's poor spacing, he would consistently beat his man only to be met at the rim by 4 defenders. Adding Okoro, who plays Barrett's position, does nothing to help that.
At least a guy like Toppin will pull a big man out of the paint because you have to respect his perimeter shooting.
Honestly they could go in one of 6 directions at this point and I wouldn't be surprised. Don't remember the last time it was like this.
Honestly they could go in one of 6 directions at this point and I wouldn't be surprised. Don't remember the last time it was like this.
Is Macri credible? Serious question
Quote:
also just said Patrick Williams has been mentioned.
Honestly they could go in one of 6 directions at this point and I wouldn't be surprised. Don't remember the last time it was like this.
Is Macri credible? Serious question
Jury is out. I'm always skeptical of the blogger turned reporter journey.
Quote:
also just said Patrick Williams has been mentioned.
Honestly they could go in one of 6 directions at this point and I wouldn't be surprised. Don't remember the last time it was like this.
Is Macri credible? Serious question
Macri is a friend of mine and he is credible, he has really built up his brand, something I am trying to do. However, I just emailed him that he needs to stop throwing every name out there and really stick to a guy he thinks they are going to take and make his prediction.
I agree with you, but I can see why they want Toppin. He would be a good fit with Robinson and RJ. If you get a PG that can shoot and play Frank at the 2 or 3, you start to have something resembling a balanced line-up.
I get this POV and lean in the same direction, but I keep coming back to the SGA draft with Frank in the fold. If Knicks brass isn't sold on RJ yet and they love Okoro, then passing on Okoro because you have RJ is just compounding mistakes.
I don't think it impacts the cap at all. Usually you see these guys (players who will never play in the league) involved in trades where a team has send back *something* in return and doesn't want to send $$. But in this case, there was something tangible going back on both sides of the deal so I have no clue.
I was thinking the same (nor do I understand it).
don't we still have Louis Labeyrie for that? lol....
How many times are we going to see Frank score 2 points in 23 minutes next year until we realize it's not worth it?
How many times are we going to see Frank score 2 points in 23 minutes next year until we realize it's not worth it?
Been trying to make that point all day. The Knicks are not giving up on RJ for the chance to draft Okoro or Vassell. They need to draft with the mind-set of a balanced lineup. It is why I can see their interest in Toppin,.
Quote:
you want to draft another defensive guy who can't shoot? We have that with Ntilikina.
How many times are we going to see Frank score 2 points in 23 minutes next year until we realize it's not worth it?
Been trying to make that point all day. The Knicks are not giving up on RJ for the chance to draft Okoro or Vassell. They need to draft with the mind-set of a balanced lineup. It is why I can see their interest in Toppin,.
Agreed, they probably think Toppin can help ASAP on the offensive end (which is probably true). His defense is just really really bad.
I will say this I'm not sure where the idea that it is easier to teach D comes from though. IMO when you look at the guys that really have improved their D a lot of it comes down to effort. Managing effort - Harden example where he needs to use more of his gas to balance his game. But plenty of "defensive specialists" have expanded their offense and become stars. I think as the game moves more towards shooting and analytics speak to the 3 point shot it's definitely something you can drill and per the 10,000 hour expert theory just get your motion down.
People that accel at defense almost always have that skill because of athleticism, which is the least teachable skill. Secondly, I would say scoring is the most fun thing to do, and some do it very naturally and aren't necessarily high effort players. Defense and effort go hand in hand. Finally, so much of defense is situational, feel, anticipation. Quick mental calculations that I think some aren't as good at or don't focus as much on. Offense is much more about your relationship to the hoop especially in NBA, the old, i'm going to take my shot and hit it and you have to adapt to me to stop me. The exception there is great ball handlers, that game is extremely mental however, there aren't that many players in the NBA that have handles that good.
But im thinking this more gets you to the 5 range which seems like Toppin. Cant understand essentially using 8, 27 and 38 to get Toppin.
My sources say GSW has zero interest in Randle...
I have no idea why the Bulls would trade Carter and 4th pick for 2nd overall. What a steal for the Warriors if that pull that off.
And hard pass on Toppin for me. He makes Amare look like Bill Russell. He's going to get killed on defense in the league.
He's not my first choice but I'm not as vehemently against picking him as others here. They absolutely 100% need to add shooters this offseason but they can do it with their cap space too.
Randle, 8, 23, dallas pick for wiggins and 2?
He's not my first choice but I'm not as vehemently against picking him as others here. They absolutely 100% need to add shooters this offseason but they can do it with their cap space too.
He iS just not a fit with RJ