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NFT: "Rise of the Nazis" on PBS

bc4life : 11/18/2020 9:52 am
Anyone else watching this? Very interesting, some information about this period that I had not heard before.

(FYI: 2 episodes, so far)
I've seen a few of these type of things - yes very interesting  
PatersonPlank : 11/18/2020 9:54 am : link
Nazi philosophy seems to have grown out of the rubble of WW1 when Germany was decimated. Also its interesting that the Nazi party at the beginning was very pro worker and did a lot of things directly for the workers (like cruise ship vacations), thus building a base.
I have not  
Greg from LI : 11/18/2020 10:02 am : link
But as it's a subject I've read a great deal about over the years, I will have to check it out.
They talk about individuals  
bc4life : 11/18/2020 10:02 am : link
who are usually not given a lot of attention (e.g., Kurt Von Schleicher, Josef Hartinger) also discussed early tensions between Goring and Himmler.
Very interesting  
JonC : 11/18/2020 10:06 am : link
to see the detailed, interlocking steps to understand how it transpired. And, some names that could've been heroes but got caught in the crossfire.
Most surprising  
JonC : 11/18/2020 10:07 am : link
is the repeated poor decisions made by Von Hindenburg. If the man at the very top is held responsible, he allowed absolute chaos to reign.
thanks for the tip  
KDavies : 11/18/2020 10:21 am : link
will definitely have to check it out. My grandfather escaped Nazi Germany and later fought for the U.S. in WWII, so I have a huge interest in that era.
Schleicher is a little-known culprit  
Greg from LI : 11/18/2020 10:25 am : link
Wasn't a Nazi himself, but his constant scheming to maneuver himself into power frequently backfired, contributed to the public's loss of confidence in Weimar, and set the stage for the NSDAP's seizing power.
Yeah, watching this as well.  
LBH15 : 11/18/2020 10:58 am : link
Pretty interesting. Obviously not inspiring but quite a remarkable series of events that 1) allowed this to occur and 2) built it up so quickly.
Book recommendation...  
BamaBlue : 11/18/2020 11:22 am : link
Bonhoeffer, by Eric Metaxas. It provides some very interesting insight into the live of Lutheran Pastor, Dietrich Bonhoeffer and the rise of the Nazi movement (national socialism).

Dietrich Bonhoeffer is one of the forgotten figures (hero, spy, christian minister...) from WWII and Eric Metaxas does and excellent job of using his life as a lens to view how the Nazi party was able to seduce the German people.
Not sure if they mention Strasser in the show...  
sb from NYT Forum : 11/18/2020 3:02 pm : link
...and how hugely important he was in transforming the Nazi's into an efficiently-administered, powerful organization from its early pre-Beer Hall Putsch days as a bunch of bumbling brutes.

I always wondered how clearly deranged people like Hitler and incompetent people like Goering and Hess could run such an expansive, well-administered organization that took over such a big country.

With Hitler in prison, Strasser totally reorganized the Nazi party. Party membership exploded when he was in charge, he set up local leaders and party offices, set up hierarchy and well-established chain of command, recruited Goebbels, etc.

Of course Hitler saw him as a threat and had him murdered during the Night of the Long Knives.
It wasn't just that he was a personal threat to Hitler  
Greg from LI : 11/18/2020 3:33 pm : link
Strasser (both of them, really, Gregor and Otto) represented a rival faction within the party. There was a faction that took the "Socialism" part of NSDAP seriously, called the and the Strassers were the leaders of that faction. It represented a serious difference in philosophy within the party. Hitler's faction won out, of course - Gregor was assassinated and Otto fled into exile.

Goebbels was actually on the socialist side early on. His diary from the time voiced displeasure with "that petit-bourgeois Adolf Hitler". Hitler was able to win him and some of the other more prominent socialists within the party over to his hardline anti-socialist stance. You have to remember that Hitler wasn't the founder of the party, and early on he was just one of many would-be leaders. His oratory attracted brought in the crowds, so the others felt compelled to keep him as the public face of the party, but even Hitler himself didn't see himself as the leader in those first few years. At that time he believed his role was to be the trailblazer who brought people into the party, and eventually a strong leader would assert himself and lead them to power. By 1922 or so, he came to see himself as that leader.
I believe there was a book written that theorized  
moespree : 11/18/2020 4:00 pm : link
That Hitler had suspicions that Strasser had given prior notice to German government authorities of the Beer Hall Putsch and had tried to sabotage Hitler. Supposedly his suspicions were raised even higher when Strasser received a 15 month sentence and only served 17 days before acquiring a high ranking political position upon his released.

I guess the general idea of the theory went that Strasser was trying to get Hitler and Ludendorff killed on the night of the Beer Hall Putsch so that he can take full control of the party and shift it in a different direction. Instead they were just wounded and later arrested.

Now the counter to this theory is that Hitler promoted Strasser multiple times after he was out of prison all the way into the 30s and even consulted with him into 1932. Whether or not he had earlier suspicions about Strasser will never be known, but it seem more likely to me that the breaking point was when Strasser was offered the vice-chancellor role. That was probably the end for Strasser in Hitler's eyes because that was an attempt to split the party in two.
I'd like to hear from Reb8thva on this  
Davisian : 11/18/2020 4:06 pm : link
He's got a ton of historical knowledge and insight that only the completely ignorant would take issue with.
You can see parallels,  
kicker : 11/18/2020 4:17 pm : link
both throughout history and in more recent times.

A savvy demagogue with an easily digestible message that appeals to a group that feels disenfranchised (in part by previous government actions). Couple that with how easily that group can be brainwashed into loosening some of the cornerstones of their political system, and you can see rather rapid disintegration of social norms.

I think what's more worrisome is how easily people can be duped by populist messages by figures who are the antithesis of what they preach. Also, these populist leaders are often dismissed by other leaders (look at Stalin's feelings on Hitler), which can lead to surprises.
Moe  
Greg from LI : 11/18/2020 4:19 pm : link
Interesting, do you remember what the title of that was?

Based off of everything I've read, Hitler was careful to try to marginalize Gregor Strasser without expelling him because Strasser's organizational talents were too useful to cast aside. This is why Hitler kept him around even after his brother was kicked out of the NSDAP and set up a rival national socialist party, the Black Front. He needed Strasser, but didn't trust him. By late 1932, the party structure was built and Strasser had outlived his usefulness.
RE: You can see parallels,  
Tom in NY : 11/18/2020 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15050401 kicker said:
Quote:
both throughout history and in more recent times.

A savvy demagogue with an easily digestible message that appeals to a group that feels disenfranchised (in part by previous government actions). Couple that with how easily that group can be brainwashed into loosening some of the cornerstones of their political system, and you can see rather rapid disintegration of social norms.

I think what's more worrisome is how easily people can be duped by populist messages by figures who are the antithesis of what they preach. Also, these populist leaders are often dismissed by other leaders (look at Stalin's feelings on Hitler), which can lead to surprises.


I was wondering how long it would take someone to turn this into an American political discussion. This is how interesting threads get deleted on this site....and for good reason.
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