Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
The #Giants have fired offensive line coach Mark Colombo and are bringing in longtime NFL assistant Dave DeGuglielmo to replace him, per sources.
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
·
1m
If you're wondering why the #Giants are making a change at OL coach at a time when they're playing better up front, see this clip from
@gmfb
Weekend the other day. Joe Judge has devoted more time to helping coach the line recently.
Maybe Joe Judge lost faith in Columbo as he had to help out coaching the line more in practice.
Maybe the recent improvement is in spite of Colombo
Quote:
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
If you're wondering why the #Giants are making a change at OL coach at a time when they're playing better up front, see this clip from
@gmfb
Weekend the other day. Joe Judge has devoted more time to helping coach the line recently.
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That's what it sounds like. Anything know about Dave DeGuglielmo? Seems like he's bounced around the league between teams every year or so. Wonder why he's never stuck anywhere long term.
If thats the case, talk about accountability. And if that's how he handled it, don't know if you can do it any better. Joe Judge is a 68 year old 30 year veteran hc in a 38 year old rookie hc's body.
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That's what it sounds like. Anything know about Dave DeGuglielmo? Seems like he's bounced around the league between teams every year or so. Wonder why he's never stuck anywhere long term.
PFF NY Giants
@PFF_Giants
Through 10 games the Giants are last in pass-block grade (47.2) and 28th in run-block grade (56.9).
While fair, i think going back the past month would be a more accurate picture of our OL. Curious what those ratings are (the eye test says a lot better, definitively in run blocking).
by Mike G (miss that dude covering the Gmen and Eric and I had him on BBI Online Live a few times).
Go back to the report that the Georgia Coach said Thomas's technique was not what he had been coached before and maybe there was something to it.
Judge does not mess around and I love it. It sends a message to the players as well, not all blame will be on you. If coaches are not doing their jobs or not doing them the way Judge wants then changes will be made.
who did all the OL work in Dallas? Did Colombo just get by on the surplus of talent they had or was it more Garrett (or someone else)?
He was assistant OL Coach from 2016-18 and then took over as OL coach. But even by 2016, Dallas' OL already featured 3 all-pros so I'm guessing there wasn't a ton of development needed.
Started to go back to his Georgia technique very recently as opposed to what Colombo was teaching him. Now what I believe happened is, Judge got in the mix an started fixing him, he's played well last 2 games and we won last 2 games. Coincidence?
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That's what it sounds like. Anything know about Dave DeGuglielmo? Seems like he's bounced around the league between teams every year or so. Wonder why he's never stuck anywhere long term.
He has been everywhere including here in NY.
I think he was purposely replaced in New England a few years back because the OL was failing under his watch....don't quote me though.
If it's true that Judge devoted his time to being more involved with the O-line during practice, it absolutely shows the benefit of not having a HC whose calling the plays and buried in the playbook
There has to be something below the surface
Pretty obvious judge isn’t here to fuck around, not many would do this mid season when liane play is finally improving
Who has been assistant line coach? Wilkerson?
Hope it doesn’t screw up momentum.
Colombo was teaching them/Thomas techniques that Judge wasn't totally comfortable with and neither were the players.
Judge steps in to help and sees the improvement in the results, but doesn't want to serve as the OL coach as well. Hires a guy he's comfortable with carrying out his vision.
by Mike G (miss that dude covering the Gmen and Eric and I had him on BBI Online Live a few times).
Go back to the report that the Georgia Coach said Thomas's technique was not what he had been coached before and maybe there was something to it.
Judge does not mess around and I love it. It sends a message to the players as well, not all blame will be on you. If coaches are not doing their jobs or not doing them the way Judge wants then changes will be made.
To follow-up on this, last week Thomas said in an interview that he was going back to some of the techniques he used in college the past few weeks. Couple that with the report from his college coach and the comments that Judge took more control of the OL, and I think there's some insight on why the change was made.
But it was something I didn't see coming. Pretty indicative of the way Judge will look at accountability.
If it's true that Judge devoted his time to being more involved with the O-line during practice, it absolutely shows the benefit of not having a HC whose calling the plays and buried in the playbook
Amen. This is what I was banging on the table with for the next HC hire after McAdoo and Shurmer, those guys just aren’t leaders. This is the exemplification of what it means to lead and hold people and players accountable. While I will remain a skeptic of our FO and GM, I have no doubts that Joe Judge is the right guy for this organization.
Judge has said something about coaching to players strengths and maybe Colombo was taking too much of a "My way or the highway" approach which rubbed Judge the wrong way.
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That's what it sounds like. Anything know about Dave DeGuglielmo? Seems like he's bounced around the league between teams every year or so. Wonder why he's never stuck anywhere long term.
He has been everywhere including here in NY.
I think he was purposely replaced in New England a few years back because the OL was failing under his watch....don't quote me though.
He took over for a Scarneccia when he retired for 2 yrs (2014 & 2015) before he came back for 2016-2019.
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That of course, is what the Company wants you to believe.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
There have been rumblings about Thomas' technique going in the shitter long before this. If Judge really has been stepping in recently then it checks out.
I wonder what this does to the Garrett/Judge dynamic if anything? I figured Columbo was a 'Garrett guy' but that might not be the case. I understand we are near if not at the bottom of the league in terms of points scored per game so might Judge be souring on Garrett too?
but Colombo seems like a hot head, (not necessarily a bad thing as a coach), but if Judge was riding him a bit, I could see Colombo taking issue with it and speaking his mind in a very colorful vocabulary kind of way. Might be OK in private, but if he did it in front of the players???
But yeah it could just be different visions, or Colombo wasn't capable as they'd like.
he has a blue checkmark and an alleged scoop that Colombo beat the crap out of Judge this morning and was fired immediately.
Maybe this?
Yeah I don’t care about ones “credentials” especially via social media. I am very skeptical they got into a physical fight this morning, the team is on Bye Week, only reason it may have happened is if they called him into fire him and he took it bad.
is accountable. Love it. Do your job or you're out. As others have said, maybe the improvement in the OL, specifically with Thomas, was because Judge got more involved. Thomas also went back to the technique he learned at Georgia. It's a given that Judge had a lot of say in drafting Thomas. He was obviously unhappy with his development.
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
Told same. Marc Colombo wasn’t pleased by Joe Judge’s decision and let it be known verbally. But nothing physical, according to sources.
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That of course, is what the Company wants you to believe.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
There have been rumblings about Thomas' technique going in the shitter long before this. If Judge really has been stepping in recently then it checks out.
I am sure it makes sense among the Believers. For the agnostics among us, Joe Judge has never played or coached o-line in his life but we are given the sugar coated Company line that He stepped in for a guy who both played and coached o-line in the NFL and the o-line was suddenly better due to His guidance and acumen.
Yeah ok. Frankly the "He got into a beef with Columbo who proceeded to kick his ass" makes more sense. For sure, you fire an employee for that but it sure doesn't say much about His Holiness' management style.
Looks like Judge did indeed get his degree from Belichek U
that Garafolo clip talking about how he spent more time with the OL the last few weeks fits a lot of these pieces together. Great sign that Judge will take action and not just let problems linger. Ballsy decision and I don't know how you can not be encouraged by a leader taking decisive action (both in taking the more active role with the OL the last few weeks and making a change he clearly felt he needed to make).
Also this doesn't really feel like scapegoating since the OL has been improving and the team winning. Canning him 2 weeks ago may have been that but right now there's not really any scapegoat needed. This feels more like confirmation that there was a behind the scenes reason for the improvement in the OL the last 2 weeks beyond usual business.
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
Told same. Marc Colombo wasn’t pleased by Joe Judge’s decision and let it be known verbally. But nothing physical, according to sources.
Just wow, feel like Columbo will be blacklisted Joe judge fist fight - ( New Window )
Nah, supposedly it was a tad overblown but definitely got heated this AM
Haha, is this real!?!?
We are not going to know everything that transpired
So no sense guessing. My issue is that DeGuglielmo has worn out his welcome quickly in a lot of places and New England's OL vastly improved when Dante came out of retirement.
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
·
34s
The #Giants were planning to bring in Dave DeGuglielmo to work alongside Marc Colombo with the offensive line, sources say. Colombo's reaction to the news led to his dismissal.
Alltheway08
@alltheway08
4m
Replying to @jasonrmcintyre
This has been refuted by Art Stapleton & Kim Jones. Kinda destroying your credibility here
Garafolo says the story is BS, words were spoken, but no fight..and I'll take Mike's word over this guy. I'll bet this was in the works, as they came up with a replacement same day.
The #Giants were planning to bring in Dave DeGuglielmo to work alongside Marc Colombo with the offensive line, sources say. Colombo's reaction to the news led to his dismissal.
So no sense guessing. My issue is that DeGuglielmo has worn out his welcome quickly in a lot of places and New England's OL vastly improved when Dante came out of retirement.
My guess is that it's a stop gap move to finish the season. Judge already passed on him once in favor of Columbo I think (probably on Garrett's recommendation). Judge probably just wants someone he's familiar with who can coach the line like he wants the rest of the season: in a way that's not hanging Thomas out to dry.
The #Giants were planning to bring in Dave DeGuglielmo to work alongside Marc Colombo with the offensive line, sources say. Colombo's reaction to the news led to his dismissal.
Wow interesting. One things for sure, Judge sticking to his guns with the whole everyone has to be on board with the program theme
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
·
34s
The #Giants were planning to bring in Dave DeGuglielmo to work alongside Marc Colombo with the offensive line, sources say. Colombo's reaction to the news led to his dismissal.
Sounds like an overreaction
Judge has always said we need to play better AND we need to
wanted to bring in someone to help Columbo. Columbo didn't like it. He was fired. Lack of accountability has been one of our biggest problems for years. When you're 3-7, everything is analyzed, and everyone can be fired.
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
·
34s
The #Giants were planning to bring in Dave DeGuglielmo to work alongside Marc Colombo with the offensive line, sources say. Colombo's reaction to the news led to his dismissal.
Well given everything, this seems to make sense. It will be interesting to see player's reaction.
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
·
34s
The #Giants were planning to bring in Dave DeGuglielmo to work alongside Marc Colombo with the offensive line, sources say. Colombo's reaction to the news led to his dismissal.
In comment 15050064 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
In comment 15050042 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
·
34s
The #Giants were planning to bring in Dave DeGuglielmo to work alongside Marc Colombo with the offensive line, sources say. Colombo's reaction to the news led to his dismissal.
Well given everything, this seems to make sense. It will be interesting to see player's reaction.
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
·
34s
The #Giants were planning to bring in Dave DeGuglielmo to work alongside Marc Colombo with the offensive line, sources say. Colombo's reaction to the news led to his dismissal.
Sounds like an overreaction
Bringing in a consultant to help you with your job especially when it's a guy who interviewed for same job is not a good sign. Can't blame him for not taking it well. Probably best for him to move on.
So no sense guessing. My issue is that DeGuglielmo has worn out his welcome quickly in a lot of places and New England's OL vastly improved when Dante came out of retirement.
I think this will be a short term thing with an replacement in the off season.
Judge will know enough if DeGuglielmo can teach the techniques he wants taught in the interim
Memory is foggy, but someone posted on here a little while back. Guy who scouted Thomas said his technique is completely different from college, and that’s why he was struggling so much.
Would explain why Judge got more involved. And why he’d break in help, before the bye week when they have time to work on things. Apparently Colombo rode the coattails of that Dallas OL talent
Most of the heavy lifting in Dallas was before he got there and they had a LOT of talent on that line so didn't expect him to walk on water. Was excited to see him work with Solder (and then Peart) as he could provide personal experience with being that tall as a tackle.
A mixed bag. Thomas has certainly underperformed as did Fleming. I know Fleming is a journeyman type but he was brought in by Garrett/Colombo and is making (marginal)starter money. Hernandez is treading water. Gates certainly improved but we don't have a baseline floor with this guy and I think Peart/Lemieux were ready when called.
Googs is an interesting coach. Has had some good success but doesn't seem to stay around too long anywhere.
I am sure it makes sense among the Believers. For the agnostics among us, Joe Judge has never played or coached o-line in his life but we are given the sugar coated Company line that He stepped in for a guy who both played and coached o-line in the NFL and the o-line was suddenly better due to His guidance and acumen.
Yeah ok. Frankly the "He got into a beef with Columbo who proceeded to kick his ass" makes more sense. For sure, you fire an employee for that but it sure doesn't say much about His Holiness' management style.
Plenty of NFL coaches have coached positions they never played, if they played at all. Bill Belichick coached TE's and WR's after playing lacrosse at D3 Wesleyan.
disagreement. Heated exchange? Sure, maybe. But heated exchange would be enough for a coach to fire especially if it was over bringing in help for Columbo he didn't want and took as an insult.
Boston College (1991–1992)
Graduate assistant
Boston University (1993–1996)
Assistant head coach & offensive line coach
Connecticut (1997–1998)
Offensive line coach
South Carolina (1999–2003)
Offensive line coach
New York Giants (2004–2008)
Assistant offensive line & quality control coach
Miami Dolphins (2009–2011)
Offensive line coach
New York Jets (2012)
Offensive line coach
New England Patriots (2014–2015)
Offensive line coach
San Diego Chargers (2016)
Assistant offensive line coach
Miami Dolphins (2017)
Offensive line coach
Indianapolis Colts (2018)
Offensive line coach
Miami Dolphins (2019)
Offensive line coach
New York Giants (2020–present)
Offensive line coach
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That of course, is what the Company wants you to believe.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
There have been rumblings about Thomas' technique going in the shitter long before this. If Judge really has been stepping in recently then it checks out.
I am sure it makes sense among the Believers. For the agnostics among us, Joe Judge has never played or coached o-line in his life but we are given the sugar coated Company line that He stepped in for a guy who both played and coached o-line in the NFL and the o-line was suddenly better due to His guidance and acumen.
Yeah ok. Frankly the "He got into a beef with Columbo who proceeded to kick his ass" makes more sense. For sure, you fire an employee for that but it sure doesn't say much about His Holiness' management style.
The chronology doesn't work out though, unless they had a time machine to feed Garafolo the story on Sunday so they could get rid of a guy after a fight the following Wednesday.
You don't need to be a believer to look at a calendar.
in a first year HC he has been around arguably the best OL coach for a long time in NE. He most certainly knows how critical this position coach is to a team. This is something brewing for quite some time imo.
Apparently, Andrew Thomas' old coach noticed Thomas went back to the technique he used at Georgia and was playing much better because of it. Maybe Columbo was teaching his way, instead of trying to make the players better. Hell did anyone see Hernandez taking a step back? Thomas reverts to old technique - ( New Window )
here's hoping Judge made the right call. Reading the tea leaves, it seems the OL has started to play a lot better since Judge got more involved. I trust Mike G's reporting on this and could definitely see Colombo getting pissed at the news they were bringing someone on.
But one thing I love about Judge is that he isn't afraid to improve/expand his staff. There is no maximum number of coaches a team is allowed to employ. If the report is true the Giants would have brought in another OL coach which would have given them three coaches for the offensive line.
I never understood why Shurmur didn't hire more coaches as he was the HC and play caller, OC Mike Shula was also the QB coach. Why on earth didn't he hire at least one more coach to serve as the QB coach allowing Shula to focus on one job?
He was Flaherty’s assistant, and took over while Coach Flats was fighting cancer, IIRC, that period happened to coincide with the line making a big jump, though it may have been more a function of personnel than coaching.
I am sure it makes sense among the Believers. For the agnostics among us, Joe Judge has never played or coached o-line in his life but we are given the sugar coated Company line that He stepped in for a guy who both played and coached o-line in the NFL and the o-line was suddenly better due to His guidance and acumen.
Yeah ok. Frankly the "He got into a beef with Columbo who proceeded to kick his ass" makes more sense. For sure, you fire an employee for that but it sure doesn't say much about His Holiness' management style.
Plenty of NFL coaches have coached positions they never played, if they played at all. Bill Belichick coached TE's and WR's after playing lacrosse at D3 Wesleyan.
Belichick also played football, C and TE, at Wesleyan U.
Joe Judge actually met with OL coach Marc Colombo last night to discuss bringing Dave DeGuglielmo aboard. The plan was to have him as a "consultant" and not just for the offensive line. Obviously OL is his area of expertise, though. And obviously Colombo didn't welcome that news.
I liked the Colombo hiring and thought he was the reason for the improved OL play lately.
I can see why he would be pissed about having another coach brought in to look over his shoulder.
Add to that if Judge had been stepping in to over-rule him on coaching practice for a week or two. It sounds justifiable to be pissed. It also sounds possible this is the right move.
When a new coach is putting together a staff, everyone has to get on the same page pretty quick...If Colombo wasn't, move on.
Dave TE (RIP) reported in this past offseason that the Giants went for Andrew Thomas because Colombo was all in on him and felt that he was the best OT in the draft. Scouts favored Becton. So it was on Colombo to make him into a better player and he was a mess early in the season. You could clearly see his game pick up after the Thursday Night game at Philly and he went back to his old techniques. In the end, this all seems like Judge putting his money where his mouth was that he put it on the coaches to make the players better. Obviously they were not on the same page. That they didn't agree and the Giants pretty much already moved on happens in football (and the business world for that matter).
Judge has earned more trust than should be placed on anyone else in the organization. As far as I'm concerned he IS the New York Giants. What he says, goes.
The OL was getting better so a lot of us thought to credit Columbo
without knowing that it was Judge who was taking a more active role behind the scenes. Good for him in doing so, getting results, and being proactive to fix something that he thought wasn't working.
Judge has earned more trust than should be placed on anyone else in the organization. As far as I'm concerned he IS the New York Giants. What he says, goes.
Judge has earned more trust than should be placed on anyone else in the organization. As far as I'm concerned he IS the New York Giants. What he says, goes.
I am BIG on accountability. I think OL got better because people had to sit and watch someone else play their position. Strong motivation. I also support firing a position coach, does the same kind of thing. Produce or GTFO. That is the way back to respectability.
Judge has earned more trust than should be placed on anyone else in the organization. As far as I'm concerned he IS the New York Giants. What he says, goes.
He's certainly put his stamp on things in a very short period of time, thats for sure. I'm not saying its an objectively good thing to fire a coach mid-season but you have to appreciate the no-nonsense approach. This guy is 100% committed to improvement and holds everyone accountable.
and everyone will know it. The lack of organizational BS is refreshing.
Well, it's his coaching staff. I'm not sure it's "Joe's team" in the sense it's being applied.
Judge hired all of the coaches. So in the org chart he has the authority to jettison Columbo.
I mean he appears to be in control of what is going and that he is not going to deal with BS. You can see that in how he handles players, the coaching staff and press conferences. Certainly he does not have control of the roster...yet.
Judge has earned more trust than should be placed on anyone else in the organization. As far as I'm concerned he IS the New York Giants. What he says, goes.
Judge has earned more trust than should be placed on anyone else in the organization. As far as I'm concerned he IS the New York Giants. What he says, goes.
by Mike G (miss that dude covering the Gmen and Eric and I had him on BBI Online Live a few times).
Go back to the report that the Georgia Coach said Thomas's technique was not what he had been coached before and maybe there was something to it.
Judge does not mess around and I love it. It sends a message to the players as well, not all blame will be on you. If coaches are not doing their jobs or not doing them the way Judge wants then changes will be made.
To follow-up on this, last week Thomas said in an interview that he was going back to some of the techniques he used in college the past few weeks. Couple that with the report from his college coach and the comments that Judge took more control of the OL, and I think there's some insight on why the change was made.
But it was something I didn't see coming. Pretty indicative of the way Judge will look at accountability.
it's funny, when I posted that story I was ridiculed. Author an asshole, shit stirrer, story is bullshit. old news. yadda yadda yadda from the usual suspects who just wanted to shit on Thomas and Gettleman
Crazy. It would be interesting to see how this plays out. I wonder if they hire an additional person to help with line coaching if Colombo wasn't originally going to be fired.
interesting piece on Andrew Thomas
Victor in CT : 11/12/2020 9:54 am
claims he has reverted to his GA technique
NY Giants’ Andrew Thomas’ major change powering major improvement - ( New Window )
this feels like a shit stirring article
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/12/2020 9:57 am : link : reply
trying to create a divide between Columbo/Thomas and Alexander. Disguised as a positive.
Matt
Jon in NYC : 11/12/2020 9:59 am : link : reply
Lombardo sucks. This is the same guy that claimed the Giants were getting Takk.
RE: this feels like a shit stirring article
Victor in CT : 11/12/2020 9:59 am : link : reply
In comment 15043269 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
trying to create a divide between Columbo/Thomas and Alexander. Disguised as a positive.
or maybe Colombo is smart enough to realize that not every technique is suitable to every player
Paul Alexander
gary_from_chester : 11/12/2020 10:03 am : link : reply
Is a self promoter who was canned in Dallas. Has an axe to grind IMO. Crap article by Lombardo.
Here is Paul Alexander’s site
Paul Alexander - ( New Window )
OL technique isn't like flipping a switch
regulator : 11/12/2020 10:04 am : link : reply
This is shit-stirring article.
Is this a second article
JonC : 11/12/2020 10:05 am : link : reply
from the same dude? Sounds like an axe to grind with Colombo.
so the same guy shitting on thomas a week or two ago
Platos : 11/12/2020 10:12 am : link : reply
is now claiming he's using his old technique...
which if you have eyes, know isn't true...
Paul Alexander
MattyKid : 11/12/2020 10:13 am : link : reply
Was on NFL Radio (Sirius) 2 weeks ago and discussed his technique at length. He worked with him prior to the draft and mentioned that he wasn't applying the strengths that made him a first rounder. Made the statement " I don't know who's in his ear" with respect to his change in technique (dig at Columbo). Alexander stated before the draft that Thomas was the best NFL ready tackle in the draft. Self promotion? Probably but I'm just happy he's playing better
This guy, a few weeks ago: "He's not using his Georgia technique"
Heisenberg : 11/12/2020 10:25 am : link : reply
Now: "He's using his Georgia technique"
Wow, some analysis. Basically said nothing more than he stunk and now he doesn't stink.
I agree
DRich1980 : 11/12/2020 11:12 am : link : reply
I see what he is say when I him struggling it was because he was using the punch something they didn't do at Georgia and it showed because whenever he punched he was off balance but in the last 2 weeks he when back to what he did a Georgia in where he would kind of open his chest and then grab the defender and when he gets his hands on them it's over
Well let’s see if he can block
Carl in CT : 11/12/2020 11:13 am : link : reply
Philly this time.
I agree
DRich1980 : 11/12/2020 11:15 am : link : reply
I see what he is saying when I saw him struggling it was because he was using the punch something they didn't do at Georgia and it showed because whenever he punched he was off balance but in the last 2 weeks he went back to what he did a Georgia in where he would kind of open his chest and then grab the defender and when he gets his hands on them it's over
RE: Matt
giants#1 : 11/12/2020 11:17 am : link : reply
In comment 15043277 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
Lombardo sucks. This is the same guy that claimed the Giants were getting Takk.
This. One unnamed "source" in the NFL claims Thomas reverted to his GA technique. Quotes from Paul Alexander and he doesn't even make that claim.
IDK
GoDeep13 : 11/12/2020 12:12 pm : link : reply
How much is true and how much is just talk but I did notice Thomas’s kick step looked different. As for the punch, I think he punched well (and did it with power) vs Washington.
I remember several of Thomas's post-game interviews in which he
Ira : 11/12/2020 1:12 pm : link : reply
said he was able to get by on athleticism in college, but needed to work on improving his technique to compete in the nfl. So I agree that the article is wrong.
That being said, I'm delighted that we got three young offensive linemen including two tackles who are proving themselves as rookies.
...was asked about him in an interview this past offseason and let's just say he gave him a mixed review at best. I wasn't sure if it was just sour grapes or his objective opinion, but this leads me to believe it was the latter.
I mean he appears to be in control of what is going and that he is not going to deal with BS. You can see that in how he handles players, the coaching staff and press conferences. Certainly he does not have control of the roster...yet.
I wish Judge was completely in charge. I just wanted to clarify the point that I don't think we're quite there...yet. ;)
RE: The OL was getting better so a lot of us thought to credit Columbo
without knowing that it was Judge who was taking a more active role behind the scenes. Good for him in doing so, getting results, and being proactive to fix something that he thought wasn't working.
It's pretty impressive when you think about it. Judge was a special teams coach who decided to help coach up the offensive line. During that time the offensive line began playing noticeably better.
Perhaps Judge learned a lot from watching Dante Scarnecchia in practice for years.
without knowing that it was Judge who was taking a more active role behind the scenes. Good for him in doing so, getting results, and being proactive to fix something that he thought wasn't working.
It's pretty impressive when you think about it. Judge was a special teams coach who decided to help coach up the offensive line. During that time the offensive line began playing noticeably better.
Perhaps Judge learned a lot from watching Dante Scarnecchia in practice for years.
He also coached blocking schemes on ST which I'd imagine has some crossover (or at least more than if he were a DB coach).
More than likely he was probably just better at communicating with the players and being flexible to let them stick with what they did well vs. overcoaching.
Anyone Catch this Judge Clip after the Eagles Game Sunday? HAHA!!
This seemed to be a positive reflection on Colombo. But, if Mike G says Judge was spending more time with the OL and then in the bye week wants to bring in a new OL guy as a consultant, it would seem to indicate that it's not a positive for Colombo.
There's only one thing we can really know for sure about this. For good or bad, Joe Judge does not fuck around.
You don't see coaches fired mid-season very often.
Based off of the line's significant improvement the past couple of weeks, it doesn't take a psychic to figure out that Columbo getting fired means that they were getting results by going away from Columbo's instructions.
Judge has earned more trust than should be placed on anyone else in the organization. As far as I'm concerned he IS the New York Giants. What he says, goes.
Plus a million
He’s coached 10 games. Wow, are we willing to go all in fast. How does all of this information become public. How does that happen? Love Pat Hanlon, but I’ve often wondered about the Giants’ crisis communication strategy.
Didn't the Pats' OL decline under him, which is why they pleaded with Scarnecchia to come out of retirement?
It is so damn difficult to evaluate OL coaches. The Colts offensive line under Hal Hunter allowed 65 sacks in 2017, and IMO was a big reason why Luck retired so early, and he was replaced by Dave DeGuglielmo. In 2018 the Colts line was one of the best in football. Now some of that had to do with rookies Quenton Nelson and Braden Smith but it was still an impressive turn around.
What concerns me is that DeGuglielmo appears to do a good job with each franchise that hires me but he is not there for long.
Started to go back to his Georgia technique very recently as opposed to what Colombo was teaching him. Now what I believe happened is, Judge got in the mix an started fixing him, he's played well last 2 games and we won last 2 games. Coincidence?
I think it was here where I read that his coach at GA couldn't believe what he was seeing with Thomas, and was really critical of the coaching. Now it makes sense.
Didn't the Pats' OL decline under him, which is why they pleaded with Scarnecchia to come out of retirement?
That is true but before that he had a pretty sterling reputation, I remember Jake Long having his best years with him as the OL coach and then falling off a cliff and never achieving pro bowl status again when he left. Some of that had to do with injuries of course.
interesting piece on Andrew Thomas
Victor in CT : 11/12/2020 9:54 am
claims he has reverted to his GA technique
NY Giants’ Andrew Thomas’ major change powering major improvement - ( New Window )
this feels like a shit stirring article
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/12/2020 9:57 am : link : reply
trying to create a divide between Columbo/Thomas and Alexander. Disguised as a positive.
Matt
Jon in NYC : 11/12/2020 9:59 am : link : reply
Lombardo sucks. This is the same guy that claimed the Giants were getting Takk.
RE: this feels like a shit stirring article
Victor in CT : 11/12/2020 9:59 am : link : reply
In comment 15043269 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
trying to create a divide between Columbo/Thomas and Alexander. Disguised as a positive.
or maybe Colombo is smart enough to realize that not every technique is suitable to every player
Paul Alexander
gary_from_chester : 11/12/2020 10:03 am : link : reply
Is a self promoter who was canned in Dallas. Has an axe to grind IMO. Crap article by Lombardo.
Here is Paul Alexander’s site
Paul Alexander - ( New Window )
OL technique isn't like flipping a switch
regulator : 11/12/2020 10:04 am : link : reply
This is shit-stirring article.
Is this a second article
JonC : 11/12/2020 10:05 am : link : reply
from the same dude? Sounds like an axe to grind with Colombo.
so the same guy shitting on thomas a week or two ago
Platos : 11/12/2020 10:12 am : link : reply
is now claiming he's using his old technique...
which if you have eyes, know isn't true...
Paul Alexander
MattyKid : 11/12/2020 10:13 am : link : reply
Was on NFL Radio (Sirius) 2 weeks ago and discussed his technique at length. He worked with him prior to the draft and mentioned that he wasn't applying the strengths that made him a first rounder. Made the statement " I don't know who's in his ear" with respect to his change in technique (dig at Columbo). Alexander stated before the draft that Thomas was the best NFL ready tackle in the draft. Self promotion? Probably but I'm just happy he's playing better
This guy, a few weeks ago: "He's not using his Georgia technique"
Heisenberg : 11/12/2020 10:25 am : link : reply
Now: "He's using his Georgia technique"
Wow, some analysis. Basically said nothing more than he stunk and now he doesn't stink.
I agree
DRich1980 : 11/12/2020 11:12 am : link : reply
I see what he is say when I him struggling it was because he was using the punch something they didn't do at Georgia and it showed because whenever he punched he was off balance but in the last 2 weeks he when back to what he did a Georgia in where he would kind of open his chest and then grab the defender and when he gets his hands on them it's over
Well let’s see if he can block
Carl in CT : 11/12/2020 11:13 am : link : reply
Philly this time.
I agree
DRich1980 : 11/12/2020 11:15 am : link : reply
I see what he is saying when I saw him struggling it was because he was using the punch something they didn't do at Georgia and it showed because whenever he punched he was off balance but in the last 2 weeks he went back to what he did a Georgia in where he would kind of open his chest and then grab the defender and when he gets his hands on them it's over
RE: Matt
giants#1 : 11/12/2020 11:17 am : link : reply
In comment 15043277 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
Lombardo sucks. This is the same guy that claimed the Giants were getting Takk.
This. One unnamed "source" in the NFL claims Thomas reverted to his GA technique. Quotes from Paul Alexander and he doesn't even make that claim.
IDK
GoDeep13 : 11/12/2020 12:12 pm : link : reply
How much is true and how much is just talk but I did notice Thomas’s kick step looked different. As for the punch, I think he punched well (and did it with power) vs Washington.
I remember several of Thomas's post-game interviews in which he
Ira : 11/12/2020 1:12 pm : link : reply
said he was able to get by on athleticism in college, but needed to work on improving his technique to compete in the nfl. So I agree that the article is wrong.
That being said, I'm delighted that we got three young offensive linemen including two tackles who are proving themselves as rookies.
Looks like there was something to it after all. A bit of a shocker. We’ll see how this affects the team in the Cinci game.
After that initial shock, it's like, ok, this is Judges team and if this is what he wants, he must have a pretty good reason. He doesnt seem like the type to not think things through.
Gotta love his approach. He has consistently said since day one, that everyone has to buy in and work towards one goal, that's the coaches and players. He hasn't been afraid to bench players, or even out right replace them, so now it's on to the coaches. Earn your keep
RE: Gotta say, I was kind of hoping for a fist fight
wanted to bring in someone to help Columbo. Columbo didn't like it. He was fired. Lack of accountability has been one of our biggest problems for years. When you're 3-7, everything is analyzed, and everyone can be fired.
Turn that around though. If Columbo sucked, shouldn't he have just been fired? Why beat around the bush and 'save face' by hiring another 'consultant'? Do the proper and right thing and just fire him, who cares if it's just half season. Admit the mistake and move on (more honorable too). That's not the 'Giant way', I know.
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That of course, is what the Company wants you to believe.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
Thanks, as always for your positive and constructive comments.
Seen this team operate for a long, long time. This is the way they operate. The Company circles the wagons, the Company line gets broadcast by its media mouthpieces and the person let go gets trashed through rumor and innuendo.
job ... but fans obviously only see above the surface of the water, so I am officially going to stop trying to figure stuff out and just roll with it.
Sometimes managers get credit for improvement that is happening despite them, not because of them. Sometimes they get credit for improvement when they're actually holding the organization back, and the improvement would have been better if they'd get out of the way. I've seen it happen.
So the improvement in the line may be despite Colombo.
Or, there's something else going on we aren't party to. That happens, too. Coaches get fired for the same reasons anybody else gets fired. Not just poor performance or insubordination, but all kinds of misconduct.
RE: RE: I was excited about the Colombo hire and thought he was doing a great
Or, there's something else going on we aren't party to. That happens, too. Coaches get fired for the same reasons anybody else gets fired. Not just poor performance or insubordination, but all kinds of misconduct.
It sounds like Colombo's mouth cost him his job. According to Garafalo Colombo told off Judge after the news about DeGuglielmo. Obviously Judge is not going to tolerate someone openly disrespecting him.
Look at the OL roster ... 4 rookies, 1 2nd year guy and 2 in their 3rd
year.... they need a lot of teaching and development, and maybe this was beyond Colombo’s reach, as a young coach himself. DD can teach and if he starts tomorrow, we’ll know he is thru the covid protocols and this was in the works for at least a week. Maybe it could have worked with him just being an advisor ... but we’ll never know.
Boy this is a shocker - I wonder where Garrett is on all this
Makes you wonder, as many have said above, that perhaps Colombo wasn't the one turning around the OL at all. If Judge and by silence Garrett, where involved then the transition should be easy. However if this was an out of the blu move by Judge, then the OL players and Garrett could be bent out of shape a little. I sure hope not, things were just starting.
The other thing that is clear is this was a thought through move, waiting until the break week to do it
RE: Boy this is a shocker - I wonder where Garrett is on all this
Makes you wonder, as many have said above, that perhaps Colombo wasn't the one turning around the OL at all. If Judge and by silence Garrett, where involved then the transition should be easy. However if this was an out of the blu move by Judge, then the OL players and Garrett could be bent out of shape a little. I sure hope not, things were just starting.
The other thing that is clear is this was a thought through move, waiting until the break week to do it
Whatever Garrett thinks, he's not going to opine publicly about it. They'll keep it in house
RE: RE: Boy this is a shocker - I wonder where Garrett is on all this
however....
I have also long believed that superior athletes make poor position coaches.
Success came naturally to them and they find it harder to relate to someone who has to put in a lot of effort to succeed.
There are a lot of very successful coaches who have played enough to understand the game but often rode the bench. (Dabo Swinney, walkon Alabama WR, is a recent example.)
wanted to bring in someone to help Columbo. Columbo didn't like it. He was fired. Lack of accountability has been one of our biggest problems for years. When you're 3-7, everything is analyzed, and everyone can be fired.
Turn that around though. If Columbo sucked, shouldn't he have just been fired? Why beat around the bush and 'save face' by hiring another 'consultant'? Do the proper and right thing and just fire him, who cares if it's just half season. Admit the mistake and move on (more honorable too). That's not the 'Giant way', I know.
Maybe they liked some aspects of Colombo's coaching, but not others? For example, maybe he was great at connecting and working with the guys, but not up to par in analyzing the tape and seeing where the breakdowns were occurring?
was the same year as me at BC. And I knew a couple of his best friends on the team well. Both were very nice guys, one of which also played in NFL...but didn't come close to Columbo's NFL success. Now Columbo on the other hand was far from a nice guy. Complete ASSHOLE...hot head, tough guy type. He was the type of guy that just looked to start trouble with people half his size for no reason. He just enjoyed it. I could share a couple stories, but it doesn't matter. I posted this, to a lesser degree, when he was hired. Not that I was against the hire, as being an asshole doesn't necessarily make you a bad OL coach. Their are plenty of great coaches in sports who are complete assholes. Not to mention people typically cool down from 19 years old to 41. But in the end, people are who they are.
With all that said, who knows...maybe this will end up being a precursor to a bunch more of negative stuff with Judge. And Judge will continue the line of loser head coaches since Coughlin. But I don't know Judge, and I do know Columbo. So none of the reports surprise me one bit, that Columbo wouldn't have taken the news well that Judge was getting him help on the OL...and that Columbo would have even gotten somewhat physical with Judge.
Judge has been doing a good job so far. For a 3-7 team.
I can't believe we have like a literal "In Judge We Trust" crowd, it is insane given the way that phrase completely blew up in people's faces already.
You also see the same things as when DG cut Omameh with more people praising his "willingness to admit" mistakes than properly panning him for the move.
Don't need to lay blame at anyone's feet specifically but this isn't really an event that deserves more praise than criticism. Not a good look for the franchise or Judge.
RE: RE: RE: Boy this is a shocker - I wonder where Garrett is on all this
was the same year as me at BC. And I knew a couple of his best friends on the team well. Both were very nice guys, one of which also played in NFL...but didn't come close to Columbo's NFL success. Now Columbo on the other hand was far from a nice guy. Complete ASSHOLE...hot head, tough guy type. He was the type of guy that just looked to start trouble with people half his size for no reason. He just enjoyed it. I could share a couple stories, but it doesn't matter. I posted this, to a lesser degree, when he was hired. Not that I was against the hire, as being an asshole doesn't necessarily make you a bad OL coach. Their are plenty of great coaches in sports who are complete assholes. Not to mention people typically cool down from 19 years old to 41. But in the end, people are who they are.
With all that said, who knows...maybe this will end up being a precursor to a bunch more of negative stuff with Judge. And Judge will continue the line of loser head coaches since Coughlin. But I don't know Judge, and I do know Columbo. So none of the reports surprise me one bit, that Columbo wouldn't have taken the news well that Judge was getting him help on the OL...and that Columbo would have even gotten somewhat physical with Judge.
Thanks for the added color always appreciate "primary sources" definitely concerned about what exactly the culture fit with the Giants org is. Indeed something to keep an eye on
This doesn’t mess up the chemistry the team and the OL was starting to develop and build.
This is my concern too. Although what do we know. Colombo could have been a raving nutjob behind the scenes, pissing people off. In that case this would be a welcome relief. I can't wait until the real story comes out.
however....
I have also long believed that superior athletes make poor position coaches.
Success came naturally to them and they find it harder to relate to someone who has to put in a lot of effort to succeed.
There are a lot of very successful coaches who have played enough to understand the game but often rode the bench. (Dabo Swinney, walkon Alabama WR, is a recent example.)
In soccer, very few great players or even elite players become successful managers. The game comes too easily for them. They don't need to think deeply about it.
showing Colombo working with the line on combo blocks. When I notice it during a game, I think back on Colombo training them. He can't be all bad, just hotheaded.
This doesn’t mess up the chemistry the team and the OL was starting to develop and build.
This is my concern too. Although what do we know. Colombo could have been a raving nutjob behind the scenes, pissing people off. In that case this would be a welcome relief. I can't wait until the real story comes out.
.
If you listen to the O Lineman on this team, you don't get that impression at all. In fact, they seemed to like him.
So Judge brings in a consultant, well of course
Columbo is going to feel undermined.
I don't blame him for being upset.
The guy that Judge is bringing in did such a bad job with the Pats, that BB had to bring back Scarnacchia out of retirement a few years ago.
I think he retired again after last season.
with Ereck Flowers if the OL coach was replaced. Flowers showed no improvement in technique during his time with the Giants. Now, it could have been that Flowers was taught the proper technique and just didn't respond, but who knows?
This doesn’t mess up the chemistry the team and the OL was starting to develop and build.
This is my concern too. Although what do we know. Colombo could have been a raving nutjob behind the scenes, pissing people off. In that case this would be a welcome relief. I can't wait until the real story comes out.
.
If you listen to the O Lineman on this team, you don't get that impression at all. In fact, they seemed to like him.
So Judge brings in a consultant, well of course
Columbo is going to feel undermined.
I don't blame him for being upset.
The guy that Judge is bringing in did such a bad job with the Pats, that BB had to bring back Scarnacchia out of retirement a few years ago.
I think he retired again after last season.
Well, you fail to take into account the fact that the whole Pats O-Line was decimated by injuries that year. It was the year Solder went down for the whole season
The productivity in the run game is undeniable, the failures in pass protection are equally undeniable. The Giants are arguably the worst pass protecting team in the NFL. There have been bright glimpses from some young guys, and an equal amount of really bad play.
If Judge wanted to bring in consultation, and Colombo flipped his lid, see ya.
Well, you fail to take into account the fact that the whole Pats O-Line was decimated by injuries that year. It was the year Solder went down for the whole season
But Belichick didn't trust DeGuglielmo going forward, especially with young guys like Andrews, Mason, Jackson, Thuney filling the interior. So he went back to Yoda... ;)
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
The productivity in the run game is undeniable, the failures in pass protection are equally undeniable. The Giants are arguably the worst pass protecting team in the NFL. There have been bright glimpses from some young guys, and an equal amount of really bad play.
If Judge wanted to bring in consultation, and Colombo flipped his lid, see ya.
I think this likely recaps things correctly.
RE: I guess the bye week makes most sense to do it.
I wonder what this does to the Garrett/Judge dynamic if anything? I figured Columbo was a 'Garrett guy' but that might not be the case. I understand we are near if not at the bottom of the league in terms of points scored per game so might Judge be souring on Garrett too?
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That of course, is what the Company wants you to believe.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
There have been rumblings about Thomas' technique going in the shitter long before this. If Judge really has been stepping in recently then it checks out.
I am sure it makes sense among the Believers. For the agnostics among us, Joe Judge has never played or coached o-line in his life but we are given the sugar coated Company line that He stepped in for a guy who both played and coached o-line in the NFL and the o-line was suddenly better due to His guidance and acumen.
Yeah ok. Frankly the "He got into a beef with Columbo who proceeded to kick his ass" makes more sense. For sure, you fire an employee for that but it sure doesn't say much about His Holiness' management style.
So Garafalo, NOT a beat reporter, who reported on judge working with the O-line awhile back, is " giving the company line"? how about you give it up, instead.
Judge either worked with the O-line and laid hands on, or he didn't. It was either reported previously he had done so or it wasn't. They either played better after he intervened, or they didn't.I don't think your point stands on merits, rather prejudice, and don't get the manlove for Colombo.
There’s reports saying they got into a fist fight this morning
Reports? PluraL? where are any other than the single vague one from McIntyre?
No there aren't. What's hilarious is the guy who tweeted that does not even cover the Giants and he's gone silent about this since the initial Tweet even though he's been called out on it. He got famous for 10 mins so he accomplished what he wanted
That said Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match when Judge informed him he was bringing in DeGuglielmo as an OL consultant. And that's what led to the firing.
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
Colombo may have sealed his fate to never being hired again by an NFL team.
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
There was a lot glad handing about Colombo, that I was nervous about. Colombo - ( New Window )
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
'Crash must have called the guy a cocksucker.
'Mmm...he's so romantic.'
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
Colombo may have sealed his fate to never being hired again by an NFL team.
Really? Because a football coach called another football coach a bad name? Isn’t that par for the course these days? He felt undermined, got upset. End of career?
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
'Crash must have called the guy a cocksucker.
'Mmm...he's so romantic.'
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
Colombo may have sealed his fate to never being hired again by an NFL team.
I wonder who told Kim Jones that Colombo would not last?
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
Sounds like Colombo called Judge a cunt.
I'm going for motherf**ker myself
My concern is Judge’s style rubbing people the wrong way..
And I’m all in on Judge, no doubts. But, this is the danger of bringing in a coach who hasn’t been brought up in the Belichick way of doing things.
For Colombo to flip out like that, he had some bottled up anger. Maybe he was annoyed and felt Judge had been undermining him in recent weeks. But, it’s clear Judge is working these coaches HARD.
RE: My concern is Judge’s style rubbing people the wrong way..
And I’m all in on Judge, no doubts. But, this is the danger of bringing in a coach who hasn’t been brought up in the Belichick way of doing things.
For Colombo to flip out like that, he had some bottled up anger. Maybe he was annoyed and felt Judge had been undermining him in recent weeks. But, it’s clear Judge is working these coaches HARD.
When you're a HC at 0-5 on your way to 3-7, yeah, I'll be he's working them hard. It's a turnaround project.
I have been part of a turnaround project at my job. Everyone was asked to work extra hard, make sacrifices, to turn around the business. We did. The problem was, there was no end to that. Everyone was asked to work extra hard and make sacrifices so we could ... have the privilege of continuing to work extra hard and make sacrifices, forever. That caused some frustration among the employees. NFL coaching is so competitive, I expect it's similar. The demands are extraordinary and they never taper off.
Really? Because a football coach called another football coach a bad name? Isn’t that par for the course these days? He felt undermined, got upset. End of career?
I don't know if it's "par for the course".
Colombo called his boss the four letter C-word. That seems way over the top to me...even for football.
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
Leaders have to make tough decisions, Judge is showing that ability. Would McAdoo/Shurmur even consider bringing in an OL assistant? Hell no, they would rest on Colombo's resume and say we got a top OL coach, it must be the players. Ballsy move
This story reminds me of this scene from Moneyball
The OL is starting to play well, rookies are rounding out, etc. Then you read about Judge stepping in and assisting in coaching, and Thomas reverting back to his college technique and it answers a lot.
So WTF changed to good for Judge. I still don't know how to feel about this team right now, but the last few weeks are the first time in a few years I have felt good about the future of this team. Even after McAdoo's fist year, I didn't feel confident in the team. Right now, I do. Judge is in full control and holding everyone accountable. It's great.
As for Thomas, I remember a few weeks back his college coach was quoted about him not doing what they taught him and what made him a first round pick. So, what I haven't seen here (maybe I missed it) is what made him go back to his Georgia technique? Was it on his own? Did that interview with the Georgia coach make an impact? Is that Judge's doing also?
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
'Crash must have called the guy a cocksucker.
'Mmm...he's so romantic.'
I do too, although I don't think we should sugarcoat this in terms of the timing and the way it went down. Whether Judge or Colombo brought it to a head, I don't think it helps a bunch of rookies to have their position coach fired mid-season. Better to have an orderly transition.
But if that wasn't in the cards here, so be it.
RE: Like most, if not everyone, I read this and first said WTF
The OL is starting to play well, rookies are rounding out, etc. Then you read about Judge stepping in and assisting in coaching, and Thomas reverting back to his college technique and it answers a lot.
So WTF changed to good for Judge. I still don't know how to feel about this team right now, but the last few weeks are the first time in a few years I have felt good about the future of this team. Even after McAdoo's fist year, I didn't feel confident in the team. Right now, I do. Judge is in full control and holding everyone accountable. It's great.
As for Thomas, I remember a few weeks back his college coach was quoted about him not doing what they taught him and what made him a first round pick. So, what I haven't seen here (maybe I missed it) is what made him go back to his Georgia technique? Was it on his own? Did that interview with the Georgia coach make an impact? Is that Judge's doing also?
All this crap came from Paul Alexander who has a major ax to grind with Columbo. Who knew offensive line coaches were all a bunch of Mary’s?
This all comes to the fact Judge had to work with the offensive line, wanted to bring in an assistant, Columbo took it like the asshole he apparently is, and Judge fired him because their relationship was over. All this stuff about his “Georgia technique” is a bunch of unsubstantiated fluff. That Bobby Skinner guy has broken this down.
the technique that AT was using and maybe it was a conflict with technique that Colombo wanted him to use?! Who knows. I do know that Colombo apparently wasn’t doing what Judge thought was necessary, hence the call to DeGuglielmo to come in as a consultant. It’s all speculation, but you have to think it was for a reason. Colombo brought this on himself. It’s possible that Garrett would still bring him in as Oline Coach, if Garrett got another HC gig though. It would be funny if Colombo ended back with the Cowboys.
1. Out with the bad (MC)
2. Frees up Judge to do other things rather than just work with the OL
3. Bring in a guy who has a proven track record of coaching up the HogMollies
4. Happens at a decent time....the bye, so at least they will have a full week to get to know the new boss
..the Giants o-line coaches must really like dry Capocollo, Genoa Salami, provolone and pepperoni sangwiches . Now just bring back Spagnuolo and they can open a restaurant.
Another source added that the hands-on Judge wanted to bring in "one of his guys" to capture more control at a position that is not his expertise.
Assuming this is true, how do we unpack this?
Does this confirm that Judge let Garrett make the call on Colombo? And know Judge is pulling rank and making the move for "his guy"...?
I'm thinking that bringing on DD as an assistant was the first move in replacing Colombo. He gets all the players used to him, learns the players and schemes, reports all going on to Judge, then Judge lets Colombo go at the end of the season. Colombo saw it coming and blew up.
I’ll be keeping an eye on the Broncos coaching situation
If Fangio is fired at the end of the season that would free up Mike Munchak. Munchak is also arguably the best OL coach in football. If he becomes available there will be several teams after him but the Giants would be a very attractive option for him with all he young talent they’ve acquired.
Munchak is a perfect fit for the Giants style of play and would take this group to a new level.
But on some real, I think things got physical, pushing, shoving, punches thrown. These are grown men, lots of testosterone needed to coach NFL players.. which story do you believe?
The OL is starting to play well, rookies are rounding out, etc. Then you read about Judge stepping in and assisting in coaching, and Thomas reverting back to his college technique and it answers a lot.
So WTF changed to good for Judge. I still don't know how to feel about this team right now, but the last few weeks are the first time in a few years I have felt good about the future of this team. Even after McAdoo's fist year, I didn't feel confident in the team. Right now, I do. Judge is in full control and holding everyone accountable. It's great.
As for Thomas, I remember a few weeks back his college coach was quoted about him not doing what they taught him and what made him a first round pick. So, what I haven't seen here (maybe I missed it) is what made him go back to his Georgia technique? Was it on his own? Did that interview with the Georgia coach make an impact? Is that Judge's doing also?
All this crap came from Paul Alexander who has a major ax to grind with Columbo. Who knew offensive line coaches were all a bunch of Mary’s?
This all comes to the fact Judge had to work with the offensive line, wanted to bring in an assistant, Columbo took it like the asshole he apparently is, and Judge fired him because their relationship was over. All this stuff about his “Georgia technique” is a bunch of unsubstantiated fluff. That Bobby Skinner guy has broken this down.
How is unsubstantiated? The coach at Georgia is the one who commented on the technique being different a few weeks ago and him using the Ga. technique now. He's not a reliable source?
Columbo is liked by his players, is probably a decent OL coach (past resume) but our young roster needed more help, evidenced by Judge stepping to help out and that having a positive effect. Possibly Judge wasn't in full agreement with the coaching style, techniques being taught.
We assume that the help that was needed wasn't something that could come from assistant position coaches, they already have those - it needed another top level guy.
So Judge efficiently went back to DeGuglielmo, his still unemployed 2nd choice OL coach candidate and asked him to come in and help out. It seems pretty clear this was not discussed with Columbo before, which is maybe a little bit disrespectful but also could indicate that Judge, knowing Columbo, foresaw that such a conversation would not be productive and had already made up his mind about bringing in DeGuglielmo.
So then Judge tells Columbo about it and he flips his shit & calls Judge some nasty words. Even though this is apparently is in character for Columbo, Judge don't play that, so Judge fires him. The new guy is the now interim OL position coach.
I have no questions about this.
Though I am slightly curious if Judge could have weathered the outrage from Columbo and talked him around. I assume there was more to it than that (wrong techniques, not on the same page...) so that wasn't really an option once it got to the name-calling. I don't really care that much about this point. It's Judge's business and he handled it.
Really? Because a football coach called another football coach a bad name? Isn’t that par for the course these days? He felt undermined, got upset. End of career?
I don't know if it's "par for the course".
Colombo called his boss the four letter C-word. That seems way over the top to me...even for football.
Another source added that the hands-on Judge wanted to bring in "one of his guys" to capture more control at a position that is not his expertise.
Assuming this is true, how do we unpack this?
Does this confirm that Judge let Garrett make the call on Colombo? And know Judge is pulling rank and making the move for "his guy"...?
I'm thinking that bringing on DD as an assistant was the first move in replacing Colombo. He gets all the players used to him, learns the players and schemes, reports all going on to Judge, then Judge lets Colombo go at the end of the season. Colombo saw it coming and blew up.
Yeah, I think you are correct. For whatever reason, Judge was not overall happy with Colombo. Wanted to bring DD in and then after the season let MC go and elevate DD to OL coach from assistant. Colombo read the writing on the all.
The Giants have an assistant OL coach already, so bringing DD seems superfluous. But if true that Judge needed to take a hands on approach with the line, then he was right to bring in DD. Doing this on the bye week also allows this to happen with most of the team away and out of earshot.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Columbo yell that word to Judge at 31 Flavors last night.
Columbo is liked by his players, is probably a decent OL coach (past resume) but our young roster needed more help, evidenced by Judge stepping to help out and that having a positive effect. Possibly Judge wasn't in full agreement with the coaching style, techniques being taught.
We assume that the help that was needed wasn't something that could come from assistant position coaches, they already have those - it needed another top level guy.
So Judge efficiently went back to DeGuglielmo, his still unemployed 2nd choice OL coach candidate and asked him to come in and help out. It seems pretty clear this was not discussed with Columbo before, which is maybe a little bit disrespectful but also could indicate that Judge, knowing Columbo, foresaw that such a conversation would not be productive and had already made up his mind about bringing in DeGuglielmo.
So then Judge tells Columbo about it and he flips his shit & calls Judge some nasty words. Even though this is apparently is in character for Columbo, Judge don't play that, so Judge fires him. The new guy is the now interim OL position coach.
I have no questions about this.
I think you summed it up very well ... I’ll add again that the Giants have (4) rookies on the active roster, plus a 2nd year guy (Barton) who we know very little about, and (2) 3rd year guys (Gates and Will) who still have a way to grow. It was great idea to bring in another set of experienced hands to help and Colombo should have accepted it as an opportunity to learn more himself. Along with Zeitler, there is more talent on this OL than I’ve seen in forever.
Boston College (1991–1992)
Graduate assistant
Boston University (1993–1996)
Assistant head coach & offensive line coach
Connecticut (1997–1998)
Offensive line coach
South Carolina (1999–2003)
Offensive line coach
New York Giants (2004–2008)
Assistant offensive line & quality control coach
Miami Dolphins (2009–2011)
Offensive line coach
New York Jets (2012)
Offensive line coach
New England Patriots (2014–2015)
Offensive line coach
San Diego Chargers (2016)
Assistant offensive line coach
Miami Dolphins (2017)
Offensive line coach
Indianapolis Colts (2018)
Offensive line coach
Miami Dolphins (2019)
Offensive line coach
New York Giants (2020–present)
Offensive line coach
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Putting your hands on your boss in anyway is never a good idea.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Putting your hands on your boss in anyway is never a good idea.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Thanks.
This is what I have been thinking. Usually things like this are not a one time thing. I would bet there were issues going on for a while behind the scenes. If it was a one time confrontation it likely could have been worked out. This just sounds to me like the "straw that broke the camels back" type of thing.
If this is the case, then a change may be a good thing. No employee or organization likes to be surrounded by conflict
RE: RE: This story reminds me of this scene from Moneyball
Technique, scheme, I don’t know. Colombo might have been stuck on what worked for Zeke Elliot, expecting it to work with Barkley, but now had to make it work with Gallman, Freeman, and Morris.
DeG may not have a great personality but has the experience in technique and scheme to be successful. He gets a tryout to see if he fits where Colombo obviously didn’t.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Jesus, if that's true Colombo must be a real hothead. That's next level prick to do that to your boss.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Jesus, if that's true Colombo must be a real hothead. That's next level prick to do that to your boss.
If this is the way this went down, yeah Columbo is an asshole, but as a people manager you have to see this happening. Sit him down, explain the situation, and if he isn’t onboard, sayanara.
it's Judge's team and if he wants to bring in a consultant and ultimately fire a coach because he doesn't like it, tough shit. Judge will be judged based on progress. Wins and losses.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
I'm thinking that bringing on DD as an assistant was the first move in replacing Colombo. He gets all the players used to him, learns the players and schemes, reports all going on to Judge, then Judge lets Colombo go at the end of the season. Colombo saw it coming and blew up.
+1
Colombo was gonna be replaced this off season, and he accelerated it himself with his blow up at JJ.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Jesus, if that's true Colombo must be a real hothead. That's next level prick to do that to your boss.
If this is the way this went down, yeah Columbo is an asshole, but as a people manager you have to see this happening. Sit him down, explain the situation, and if he isn’t onboard, sayanara.
Yeah good lesson for Judge going forward. Should not have let Colombo hear this from someone else.
Appreciate the info, Peppers.
JB. The thing is Judge is a young, inexperienced coach,
but I’d there anything about the guy that says he’s not going to learn from this experience? I think that’s why we are all so excited. Just crazy to think we probably have our guy for next 15 years plus.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Jesus, if that's true Colombo must be a real hothead. That's next level prick to do that to your boss.
True, although if I found out that my boss had hired a consultant behind my back that specializes precisely in my discipline of expertise, I wouldn't consider that a particularly good boss, either.
People bring in consultants all the time. There's any number of reasons why a boss might think that an extra set of eyes and ears could be of value, especially if there's a significant difference in experience level. But not making the employee aware of it is bad management, no matter how good of a job Judge is doing so far.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Jesus, if that's true Colombo must be a real hothead. That's next level prick to do that to your boss.
True, although if I found out that my boss had hired a consultant behind my back that specializes precisely in my discipline of expertise, I wouldn't consider that a particularly good boss, either.
People bring in consultants all the time. There's any number of reasons why a boss might think that an extra set of eyes and ears could be of value, especially if there's a significant difference in experience level. But not making the employee aware of it is bad management, no matter how good of a job Judge is doing so far.
What you say is true in the corporate world ... but let’s not confuse that with the NFL which has more of a military like hierarchy. All coaches are to varying degree, control freaks and they are under no obligation to gain ‘buy in’ from their assistants or anyone else unless they see it necessary. Sure JJ could have done it differently if he wanted to, but don’t call it bad mgmt, especially without knowing any of the backstory details. His job is to put a winner on the field and go about it anyway he chooses.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Jesus, if that's true Colombo must be a real hothead. That's next level prick to do that to your boss.
True, although if I found out that my boss had hired a consultant behind my back that specializes precisely in my discipline of expertise, I wouldn't consider that a particularly good boss, either.
People bring in consultants all the time. There's any number of reasons why a boss might think that an extra set of eyes and ears could be of value, especially if there's a significant difference in experience level. But not making the employee aware of it is bad management, no matter how good of a job Judge is doing so far.
What you say is true in the corporate world ... but let’s not confuse that with the NFL which has more of a military like hierarchy. All coaches are to varying degree, control freaks and they are under no obligation to gain ‘buy in’ from their assistants or anyone else unless they see it necessary. Sure JJ could have done it differently if he wanted to, but don’t call it bad mgmt, especially without knowing any of the backstory details. His job is to put a winner on the field and go about it anyway he chooses.
Staffs change all the time though, and you want a position on your staff to be attractive to potential coaching talent. These assistants aren't grunts that have to be there.
I agree with the notion Judge should have talked to Colombo
No of us really know how this went down. The consensus is the Line performed better the past few weeks and it's because of Judge's direct involvement. If Colombo wasnt doing his job, it was time to move on.
If the optics are bad, Judge will learn and handle things differently in the future.
RE: I agree with the notion Judge should have talked to Colombo
before he found out through the rumor mill. Nothing wrong with making the move, but that’s a little inexperience on Judge’s part.
Maybe he didnt have the opportunity because someone got ahead of him. Perhaps, this was the convo to inform Colombo he was bringing in Gugs to help? Again, conjecture.
Who's the rat?
RE: RE: I agree with the notion Judge should have talked to Colombo
before he found out through the rumor mill. Nothing wrong with making the move, but that’s a little inexperience on Judge’s part.
Maybe he didnt have the opportunity because someone got ahead of him. Perhaps, this was the convo to inform Colombo he was bringing in Gugs to help? Again, conjecture.
Who's the rat?
Fair questions. We’re all making guesses, none of us were in the building.
And all that aside - regardless of how it went down, sounds like Colombo was an asshole about it, and Judge did the right thing by firing him immediately
If you are going to do this the bye week is right time. Anyone know the details of Columbo's contract? If he shoved Judge, they can fire him for cause. I think this was handled this way so Columbo would quit. Instead he got confrontational and fired for cause. Same outcome.
RE: RE: RE: I agree with the notion Judge should have talked to Colombo
before he found out through the rumor mill. Nothing wrong with making the move, but that’s a little inexperience on Judge’s part.
Maybe he didnt have the opportunity because someone got ahead of him. Perhaps, this was the convo to inform Colombo he was bringing in Gugs to help? Again, conjecture.
Who's the rat?
Fair questions. We’re all making guesses, none of us were in the building.
And all that aside - regardless of how it went down, sounds like Colombo was an asshole about it, and Judge did the right thing by firing him immediately
Agree 100%; ego is involved especially when you think you're good at your job.
RE: RE: I agree with the notion Judge should have talked to Colombo
before he found out through the rumor mill. Nothing wrong with making the move, but that’s a little inexperience on Judge’s part.
Maybe he didnt have the opportunity because someone got ahead of him. Perhaps, this was the convo to inform Colombo he was bringing in Gugs to help? Again, conjecture.
Who's the rat?
IMO, there's no "didn't have the opportunity" here because Colombo should have been told before anyone other than DeGuglielmo himself (or maybe Garrett too, at most - I'm assuming here that neither DG nor ownership would have even accidentally hung JJ out by mentioning anything to MC). It sounds like DD has been in contact with JJ for more than just the past couple of days, so JJ would have had the opportunity to make MC aware of it if he so chose.
I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging that one element of this is not especially favorable for Judge. I don't think it makes him a bad coach or a bad person, but it's the first time that I think his inexperience as a HC may have been on display just a bit.
of an interesting incident between superior and subordinate coming out of WW2. ( and remember it is a story filed by a member of media who might be all wet)
Now both these guys had enormously more responsibility and pressure on them. Both were in different leagues in terms of maintaining self control.
So suddenly, Ike shows up at Bradleys headquarters and tells him he wants him to hold up, set his line and also take and hold a town they had not talked about and then wait for the Germans and for Patton. He does this in public (meaning within the hearing range of other members on their respective staffs) without regard for Bradleys feelings or input
Bradley get very upset (for him and compared to his normal range of reactions) and pushes back in a way he never did before. He does not want his hands tied, doesnt want to wait and as far as he is concerned, Patton should and does report to him.
He tells Ike he is going to resign for under these orders he cant be accountable to the American people and he wants to tell the families of the troops he commands ( close to a half a million) that he is resigning because he cant protect the boys under these orders.
Ike gets pissed at what he sees as insubordination and a reaction without realizing that Ike knows something he does not.
"Brad, its pointless to resign for that reason. You are only accountable to me. You are not accountable to the American people. Only I am. Now lets you and I take this in the other room to discuss"
Bradley takes this in and gets more agitated and continues in the board room in front of the Americans, Montgomerys staff, De Gaulles staff and some press.
Ike steps closer and puts his hands on Bradleys shoulders right over his stars and says while Bradley is in his rant:
" Brad, but these are my orders. They are still my orders Brad. And they will be my orders. Understand Brad?"
So Bradley stops suddenly and completely, collects himself and goes and starts giving Ike's desired orders down the chain.
About 15 minutes later Bradley says to Ike: "Ike ( they were friends) im getting a lot of questions. Why are we supposed to be taking and holding Bastogne?"
"Because"
RE: RE: RE: Like most, if not everyone, I read this and first said WTF
How is unsubstantiated? The coach at Georgia is the one who commented on the technique being different a few weeks ago and him using the Ga. technique now. He's not a reliable source?
Depends on how you look at it. Paul Alexander was fired by dallas and replaced by Colombo, who was his assistant. Could there be something there?
But the Axis probably had even more of those types of interactions (due to the nature of getting orders from a raving lunatic by the end of the war) and they lost.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
12s
That’s a wow. Judge hired Colombo over DeGuglielmo after both interviewed for the position in January
Patricia Traina
@Patricia_Traina
·
2m
Huh?
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
25s
Marc Colombo is out as offensive line coach, source confirms. Wow.
DeGuglielmo, who also interviewed for the job back in January, is replacing him.
I wonder if Garrett pushed for Colombo initially and Judge agreed.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
·
Nov 18
This came out of left field ... #Giants
Wonder if there's more to the story.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
The #Giants have fired offensive line coach Mark Colombo and are bringing in longtime NFL assistant Dave DeGuglielmo to replace him, per sources.
Link - ( New Window )
@MikeGarafolo
·
1m
If you're wondering why the #Giants are making a change at OL coach at a time when they're playing better up front, see this clip from
@gmfb
Weekend the other day. Joe Judge has devoted more time to helping coach the line recently.
Maybe Joe Judge lost faith in Columbo as he had to help out coaching the line more in practice.
Either way, if you weren't sold on Judge running this team with authority, here's another example.
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
If you're wondering why the #Giants are making a change at OL coach at a time when they're playing better up front, see this clip from
@gmfb
Weekend the other day. Joe Judge has devoted more time to helping coach the line recently.
Link - ( New Window )
Judge isn't afraid to make changes
PFF NY Giants
@PFF_Giants
Through 10 games the Giants are last in pass-block grade (47.2) and 28th in run-block grade (56.9).
That's what it sounds like. Anything know about Dave DeGuglielmo? Seems like he's bounced around the league between teams every year or so. Wonder why he's never stuck anywhere long term.
Also, the fact that he's willing to pull the trigger quickly, that's really impressive, as well.
Quote:
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That's what it sounds like. Anything know about Dave DeGuglielmo? Seems like he's bounced around the league between teams every year or so. Wonder why he's never stuck anywhere long term.
Pats OL coach 2014-15,so has a tie-in w/Judge
Quote:
PFF NY Giants
@PFF_Giants
Through 10 games the Giants are last in pass-block grade (47.2) and 28th in run-block grade (56.9).
While fair, i think going back the past month would be a more accurate picture of our OL. Curious what those ratings are (the eye test says a lot better, definitively in run blocking).
:-)
Go back to the report that the Georgia Coach said Thomas's technique was not what he had been coached before and maybe there was something to it.
Judge does not mess around and I love it. It sends a message to the players as well, not all blame will be on you. If coaches are not doing their jobs or not doing them the way Judge wants then changes will be made.
He was assistant OL Coach from 2016-18 and then took over as OL coach. But even by 2016, Dallas' OL already featured 3 all-pros so I'm guessing there wasn't a ton of development needed.
Quote:
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That's what it sounds like. Anything know about Dave DeGuglielmo? Seems like he's bounced around the league between teams every year or so. Wonder why he's never stuck anywhere long term.
He has been everywhere including here in NY.
I think he was purposely replaced in New England a few years back because the OL was failing under his watch....don't quote me though.
Tom Rock
@TomRock_Newsday
·
4m
Giants rotating offensive line coaches now too.
Pretty obvious judge isn’t here to fuck around, not many would do this mid season when liane play is finally improving
Who has been assistant line coach? Wilkerson?
Hope it doesn’t screw up momentum.
Judge steps in to help and sees the improvement in the results, but doesn't want to serve as the OL coach as well. Hires a guy he's comfortable with carrying out his vision.
Wonder exactly what/why, though?
Was he teaching different techniques than what the Giants asked him to teach?
Was he teaching Giants techniques, but not getting the players to do it?
Was he being an azzhole?
Would love to find out why specifically Judge needed to step in.
link - ( New Window )
Go back to the report that the Georgia Coach said Thomas's technique was not what he had been coached before and maybe there was something to it.
Judge does not mess around and I love it. It sends a message to the players as well, not all blame will be on you. If coaches are not doing their jobs or not doing them the way Judge wants then changes will be made.
To follow-up on this, last week Thomas said in an interview that he was going back to some of the techniques he used in college the past few weeks. Couple that with the report from his college coach and the comments that Judge took more control of the OL, and I think there's some insight on why the change was made.
But it was something I didn't see coming. Pretty indicative of the way Judge will look at accountability.
I completely trust his decisions.
Amen. This is what I was banging on the table with for the next HC hire after McAdoo and Shurmer, those guys just aren’t leaders. This is the exemplification of what it means to lead and hold people and players accountable. While I will remain a skeptic of our FO and GM, I have no doubts that Joe Judge is the right guy for this organization.
Judge has said something about coaching to players strengths and maybe Colombo was taking too much of a "My way or the highway" approach which rubbed Judge the wrong way.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
Paul Alexander probably had a huge hand in their succss. Check out his resume before they replaced him with Columbo.
Link - ( New Window )
Everyone is evaluated and accountable including the staff as well as the players
He is no nonsense
Also, kind of a strange deal with him in Miami.
LONK - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 15049939 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That's what it sounds like. Anything know about Dave DeGuglielmo? Seems like he's bounced around the league between teams every year or so. Wonder why he's never stuck anywhere long term.
He has been everywhere including here in NY.
I think he was purposely replaced in New England a few years back because the OL was failing under his watch....don't quote me though.
He took over for a Scarneccia when he retired for 2 yrs (2014 & 2015) before he came back for 2016-2019.
+1
Quote:
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That of course, is what the Company wants you to believe.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
There have been rumblings about Thomas' technique going in the shitter long before this. If Judge really has been stepping in recently then it checks out.
+1
Surprised the hell out of many that he took an open shot at another league guy/fellow coach at the time, regardless of who replaced who in Dallas.
Well then
But yeah it could just be different visions, or Colombo wasn't capable as they'd like.
Link - ( New Window )
However, there may be other issues at work here, don't know.
Maybe this?
Joe judge fist fight - ( New Window )
Quote:
he has a blue checkmark and an alleged scoop that Colombo beat the crap out of Judge this morning and was fired immediately.
Maybe this?
Yeah I don’t care about ones “credentials” especially via social media. I am very skeptical they got into a physical fight this morning, the team is on Bye Week, only reason it may have happened is if they called him into fire him and he took it bad.
Before or after the firing?
Quote:
that there was no fist fight, but there was some kind of heating exchange (not sure if in person or call/zoom).
Before or after the firing?
Not sure..I asked but he didn't know. Just heard from someone on in the organization that there was a heated exchange.
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
Told same. Marc Colombo wasn’t pleased by Joe Judge’s decision and let it be known verbally. But nothing physical, according to sources.
Quote:
In comment 15049939 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That of course, is what the Company wants you to believe.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
There have been rumblings about Thomas' technique going in the shitter long before this. If Judge really has been stepping in recently then it checks out.
Yeah ok. Frankly the "He got into a beef with Columbo who proceeded to kick his ass" makes more sense. For sure, you fire an employee for that but it sure doesn't say much about His Holiness' management style.
Also this doesn't really feel like scapegoating since the OL has been improving and the team winning. Canning him 2 weeks ago may have been that but right now there's not really any scapegoat needed. This feels more like confirmation that there was a behind the scenes reason for the improvement in the OL the last 2 weeks beyond usual business.
Haha, is this real!?!?
Quote:
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
Told same. Marc Colombo wasn’t pleased by Joe Judge’s decision and let it be known verbally. But nothing physical, according to sources.
Oh ok. Fair enough.
That's some sensible analysis. He was getting canned today and it got heated before or after.
Quote:
Just wow, feel like Columbo will be blacklisted Joe judge fist fight - ( New Window )
Nah, supposedly it was a tad overblown but definitely got heated this AM
Haha, is this real!?!?
@MikeGarafolo
·
34s
The #Giants were planning to bring in Dave DeGuglielmo to work alongside Marc Colombo with the offensive line, sources say. Colombo's reaction to the news led to his dismissal.
@alltheway08
4m
Replying to @jasonrmcintyre
This has been refuted by Art Stapleton & Kim Jones. Kinda destroying your credibility here
Garafolo says the story is BS, words were spoken, but no fight..and I'll take Mike's word over this guy. I'll bet this was in the works, as they came up with a replacement same day.
https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1329118424090497026
My guess is that it's a stop gap move to finish the season. Judge already passed on him once in favor of Columbo I think (probably on Garrett's recommendation). Judge probably just wants someone he's familiar with who can coach the line like he wants the rest of the season: in a way that's not hanging Thomas out to dry.
According to some, he’s leading them to a super bowl....:this year!!
Wow interesting. One things for sure, Judge sticking to his guns with the whole everyone has to be on board with the program theme
@MikeGarafolo
·
34s
The #Giants were planning to bring in Dave DeGuglielmo to work alongside Marc Colombo with the offensive line, sources say. Colombo's reaction to the news led to his dismissal.
Sounds like an overreaction
Same. I was excited about the Colombo hiring.
Quote:
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That of course, is what the Company wants you to believe.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
My wife has her period 1 week out of the month (and usually doesn't take it out on me).
You seem to have it every week. That must suck.
@MikeGarafolo
·
34s
The #Giants were planning to bring in Dave DeGuglielmo to work alongside Marc Colombo with the offensive line, sources say. Colombo's reaction to the news led to his dismissal.
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
·
34s
The #Giants were planning to bring in Dave DeGuglielmo to work alongside Marc Colombo with the offensive line, sources say. Colombo's reaction to the news led to his dismissal.
Colombo isn't looking too good here.
Quote:
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
·
34s
The #Giants were planning to bring in Dave DeGuglielmo to work alongside Marc Colombo with the offensive line, sources say. Colombo's reaction to the news led to his dismissal.
Well given everything, this seems to make sense. It will be interesting to see player's reaction.
Link here
link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 15049939 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That of course, is what the Company wants you to believe.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
My wife has her period 1 week out of the month (and usually doesn't take it out on me).
You seem to have it every week. That must suck.
He is confusing the Giants with Washington.
Quote:
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
·
34s
The #Giants were planning to bring in Dave DeGuglielmo to work alongside Marc Colombo with the offensive line, sources say. Colombo's reaction to the news led to his dismissal.
Sounds like an overreaction
Bringing in a consultant to help you with your job especially when it's a guy who interviewed for same job is not a good sign. Can't blame him for not taking it well. Probably best for him to move on.
Quote:
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That of course, is what the Company wants you to believe.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
Thanks, as always for your positive and constructive comments.
I think this will be a short term thing with an replacement in the off season.
Judge will know enough if DeGuglielmo can teach the techniques he wants taught in the interim
Would explain why Judge got more involved. And why he’d break in help, before the bye week when they have time to work on things. Apparently Colombo rode the coattails of that Dallas OL talent
A mixed bag. Thomas has certainly underperformed as did Fleming. I know Fleming is a journeyman type but he was brought in by Garrett/Colombo and is making (marginal)starter money. Hernandez is treading water. Gates certainly improved but we don't have a baseline floor with this guy and I think Peart/Lemieux were ready when called.
Googs is an interesting coach. Has had some good success but doesn't seem to stay around too long anywhere.
Yeah ok. Frankly the "He got into a beef with Columbo who proceeded to kick his ass" makes more sense. For sure, you fire an employee for that but it sure doesn't say much about His Holiness' management style.
Plenty of NFL coaches have coached positions they never played, if they played at all. Bill Belichick coached TE's and WR's after playing lacrosse at D3 Wesleyan.
Graduate assistant
Boston University (1993–1996)
Assistant head coach & offensive line coach
Connecticut (1997–1998)
Offensive line coach
South Carolina (1999–2003)
Offensive line coach
New York Giants (2004–2008)
Assistant offensive line & quality control coach
Miami Dolphins (2009–2011)
Offensive line coach
New York Jets (2012)
Offensive line coach
New England Patriots (2014–2015)
Offensive line coach
San Diego Chargers (2016)
Assistant offensive line coach
Miami Dolphins (2017)
Offensive line coach
Indianapolis Colts (2018)
Offensive line coach
Miami Dolphins (2019)
Offensive line coach
New York Giants (2020–present)
Offensive line coach
Quote:
In comment 15049982 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 15049939 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That of course, is what the Company wants you to believe.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
There have been rumblings about Thomas' technique going in the shitter long before this. If Judge really has been stepping in recently then it checks out.
I am sure it makes sense among the Believers. For the agnostics among us, Joe Judge has never played or coached o-line in his life but we are given the sugar coated Company line that He stepped in for a guy who both played and coached o-line in the NFL and the o-line was suddenly better due to His guidance and acumen.
Yeah ok. Frankly the "He got into a beef with Columbo who proceeded to kick his ass" makes more sense. For sure, you fire an employee for that but it sure doesn't say much about His Holiness' management style.
The chronology doesn't work out though, unless they had a time machine to feed Garafolo the story on Sunday so they could get rid of a guy after a fight the following Wednesday.
You don't need to be a believer to look at a calendar.
I can see why he would be pissed about having another coach brought in to look over his shoulder.
Thomas reverts to old technique - ( New Window )
I never understood why Shurmur didn't hire more coaches as he was the HC and play caller, OC Mike Shula was also the QB coach. Why on earth didn't he hire at least one more coach to serve as the QB coach allowing Shula to focus on one job?
Considering the OL has been playing better since Judge had to step in, my guess is he reacted fine to it.
Protection stats as of last week - ( New Window )
Quote:
I am sure it makes sense among the Believers. For the agnostics among us, Joe Judge has never played or coached o-line in his life but we are given the sugar coated Company line that He stepped in for a guy who both played and coached o-line in the NFL and the o-line was suddenly better due to His guidance and acumen.
Yeah ok. Frankly the "He got into a beef with Columbo who proceeded to kick his ass" makes more sense. For sure, you fire an employee for that but it sure doesn't say much about His Holiness' management style.
Plenty of NFL coaches have coached positions they never played, if they played at all. Bill Belichick coached TE's and WR's after playing lacrosse at D3 Wesleyan.
Belichick also played football, C and TE, at Wesleyan U.
Joe Judge actually met with OL coach Marc Colombo last night to discuss bringing Dave DeGuglielmo aboard. The plan was to have him as a "consultant" and not just for the offensive line. Obviously OL is his area of expertise, though. And obviously Colombo didn't welcome that news.
I can see why he would be pissed about having another coach brought in to look over his shoulder.
Funny that you say that. I mentioned last week that Columbo should be applauded for finally get this OL pointed in the right direction.
So much for that... ;)
I can see why he would be pissed about having another coach brought in to look over his shoulder.
Add to that if Judge had been stepping in to over-rule him on coaching practice for a week or two. It sounds justifiable to be pissed. It also sounds possible this is the right move.
When a new coach is putting together a staff, everyone has to get on the same page pretty quick...If Colombo wasn't, move on.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
Timeline from my reporting in the last hour:
* Giants were bringing Guge in as consultant with Colombo. Judge has been working closer with OL last few weeks.
* Giants were set to move forward with Colombo as OL coach + Guge as consultant.
* Colombo reax led to his firing.
In Judge I trust, I guess. Holy moly..
100% agree.
You have to wonder what he is even doing if Judge had to get involved.
Well, it's his coaching staff. I'm not sure it's "Joe's team" in the sense it's being applied.
Judge hired all of the coaches. So in the org chart he has the authority to jettison Columbo.
He's certainly put his stamp on things in a very short period of time, thats for sure. I'm not saying its an objectively good thing to fire a coach mid-season but you have to appreciate the no-nonsense approach. This guy is 100% committed to improvement and holds everyone accountable.
Quote:
and everyone will know it. The lack of organizational BS is refreshing.
Well, it's his coaching staff. I'm not sure it's "Joe's team" in the sense it's being applied.
Judge hired all of the coaches. So in the org chart he has the authority to jettison Columbo.
I mean he appears to be in control of what is going and that he is not going to deal with BS. You can see that in how he handles players, the coaching staff and press conferences. Certainly he does not have control of the roster...yet.
Plus a million
Imagine how McAdoo would have handled these situations
Quote:
Judge has earned more trust than should be placed on anyone else in the organization. As far as I'm concerned he IS the New York Giants. What he says, goes.
Plus a million
+2.
Quote:
by Mike G (miss that dude covering the Gmen and Eric and I had him on BBI Online Live a few times).
Go back to the report that the Georgia Coach said Thomas's technique was not what he had been coached before and maybe there was something to it.
Judge does not mess around and I love it. It sends a message to the players as well, not all blame will be on you. If coaches are not doing their jobs or not doing them the way Judge wants then changes will be made.
To follow-up on this, last week Thomas said in an interview that he was going back to some of the techniques he used in college the past few weeks. Couple that with the report from his college coach and the comments that Judge took more control of the OL, and I think there's some insight on why the change was made.
But it was something I didn't see coming. Pretty indicative of the way Judge will look at accountability.
it's funny, when I posted that story I was ridiculed. Author an asshole, shit stirrer, story is bullshit. old news. yadda yadda yadda from the usual suspects who just wanted to shit on Thomas and Gettleman
Victor in CT : 11/12/2020 9:54 am
claims he has reverted to his GA technique
NY Giants’ Andrew Thomas’ major change powering major improvement - ( New Window )
this feels like a shit stirring article
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/12/2020 9:57 am : link : reply
trying to create a divide between Columbo/Thomas and Alexander. Disguised as a positive.
Matt
Jon in NYC : 11/12/2020 9:59 am : link : reply
Lombardo sucks. This is the same guy that claimed the Giants were getting Takk.
RE: this feels like a shit stirring article
Victor in CT : 11/12/2020 9:59 am : link : reply
In comment 15043269 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
trying to create a divide between Columbo/Thomas and Alexander. Disguised as a positive.
or maybe Colombo is smart enough to realize that not every technique is suitable to every player
Paul Alexander
gary_from_chester : 11/12/2020 10:03 am : link : reply
Is a self promoter who was canned in Dallas. Has an axe to grind IMO. Crap article by Lombardo.
Here is Paul Alexander’s site
Paul Alexander - ( New Window )
OL technique isn't like flipping a switch
regulator : 11/12/2020 10:04 am : link : reply
This is shit-stirring article.
Is this a second article
JonC : 11/12/2020 10:05 am : link : reply
from the same dude? Sounds like an axe to grind with Colombo.
so the same guy shitting on thomas a week or two ago
Platos : 11/12/2020 10:12 am : link : reply
is now claiming he's using his old technique...
which if you have eyes, know isn't true...
Paul Alexander
MattyKid : 11/12/2020 10:13 am : link : reply
Was on NFL Radio (Sirius) 2 weeks ago and discussed his technique at length. He worked with him prior to the draft and mentioned that he wasn't applying the strengths that made him a first rounder. Made the statement " I don't know who's in his ear" with respect to his change in technique (dig at Columbo). Alexander stated before the draft that Thomas was the best NFL ready tackle in the draft. Self promotion? Probably but I'm just happy he's playing better
This guy, a few weeks ago: "He's not using his Georgia technique"
Heisenberg : 11/12/2020 10:25 am : link : reply
Now: "He's using his Georgia technique"
Wow, some analysis. Basically said nothing more than he stunk and now he doesn't stink.
I agree
DRich1980 : 11/12/2020 11:12 am : link : reply
I see what he is say when I him struggling it was because he was using the punch something they didn't do at Georgia and it showed because whenever he punched he was off balance but in the last 2 weeks he when back to what he did a Georgia in where he would kind of open his chest and then grab the defender and when he gets his hands on them it's over
Well let’s see if he can block
Carl in CT : 11/12/2020 11:13 am : link : reply
Philly this time.
I agree
DRich1980 : 11/12/2020 11:15 am : link : reply
I see what he is saying when I saw him struggling it was because he was using the punch something they didn't do at Georgia and it showed because whenever he punched he was off balance but in the last 2 weeks he went back to what he did a Georgia in where he would kind of open his chest and then grab the defender and when he gets his hands on them it's over
RE: Matt
giants#1 : 11/12/2020 11:17 am : link : reply
In comment 15043277 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
Lombardo sucks. This is the same guy that claimed the Giants were getting Takk.
This. One unnamed "source" in the NFL claims Thomas reverted to his GA technique. Quotes from Paul Alexander and he doesn't even make that claim.
IDK
GoDeep13 : 11/12/2020 12:12 pm : link : reply
How much is true and how much is just talk but I did notice Thomas’s kick step looked different. As for the punch, I think he punched well (and did it with power) vs Washington.
I remember several of Thomas's post-game interviews in which he
Ira : 11/12/2020 1:12 pm : link : reply
said he was able to get by on athleticism in college, but needed to work on improving his technique to compete in the nfl. So I agree that the article is wrong.
That being said, I'm delighted that we got three young offensive linemen including two tackles who are proving themselves as rookies.
Judge doesn't play around.
I mean he appears to be in control of what is going and that he is not going to deal with BS. You can see that in how he handles players, the coaching staff and press conferences. Certainly he does not have control of the roster...yet.
I wish Judge was completely in charge. I just wanted to clarify the point that I don't think we're quite there...yet. ;)
It's pretty impressive when you think about it. Judge was a special teams coach who decided to help coach up the offensive line. During that time the offensive line began playing noticeably better.
Perhaps Judge learned a lot from watching Dante Scarnecchia in practice for years.
This.
Quote:
without knowing that it was Judge who was taking a more active role behind the scenes. Good for him in doing so, getting results, and being proactive to fix something that he thought wasn't working.
It's pretty impressive when you think about it. Judge was a special teams coach who decided to help coach up the offensive line. During that time the offensive line began playing noticeably better.
Perhaps Judge learned a lot from watching Dante Scarnecchia in practice for years.
He also coached blocking schemes on ST which I'd imagine has some crossover (or at least more than if he were a DB coach).
More than likely he was probably just better at communicating with the players and being flexible to let them stick with what they did well vs. overcoaching.
Turn it off! - ( New Window )
There's only one thing we can really know for sure about this. For good or bad, Joe Judge does not fuck around.
Based off of the line's significant improvement the past couple of weeks, it doesn't take a psychic to figure out that Columbo getting fired means that they were getting results by going away from Columbo's instructions.
Quote:
Judge has earned more trust than should be placed on anyone else in the organization. As far as I'm concerned he IS the New York Giants. What he says, goes.
Plus a million
He’s coached 10 games. Wow, are we willing to go all in fast. How does all of this information become public. How does that happen? Love Pat Hanlon, but I’ve often wondered about the Giants’ crisis communication strategy.
Yes. Replied to your comment on this on the other thread...
It is so damn difficult to evaluate OL coaches. The Colts offensive line under Hal Hunter allowed 65 sacks in 2017, and IMO was a big reason why Luck retired so early, and he was replaced by Dave DeGuglielmo. In 2018 the Colts line was one of the best in football. Now some of that had to do with rookies Quenton Nelson and Braden Smith but it was still an impressive turn around.
What concerns me is that DeGuglielmo appears to do a good job with each franchise that hires me but he is not there for long.
DD would be brought in for the rest of the year for familiarity, if nothing else.
This has already been debunked.
I think it was here where I read that his coach at GA couldn't believe what he was seeing with Thomas, and was really critical of the coaching. Now it makes sense.
Quote:
In comment 15049939 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That of course, is what the Company wants you to believe.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
My wife has her period 1 week out of the month (and usually doesn't take it out on me).
You seem to have it every week. That must suck.
That is true but before that he had a pretty sterling reputation, I remember Jake Long having his best years with him as the OL coach and then falling off a cliff and never achieving pro bowl status again when he left. Some of that had to do with injuries of course.
Victor in CT : 11/12/2020 9:54 am
claims he has reverted to his GA technique
NY Giants’ Andrew Thomas’ major change powering major improvement - ( New Window )
this feels like a shit stirring article
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/12/2020 9:57 am : link : reply
trying to create a divide between Columbo/Thomas and Alexander. Disguised as a positive.
Matt
Jon in NYC : 11/12/2020 9:59 am : link : reply
Lombardo sucks. This is the same guy that claimed the Giants were getting Takk.
RE: this feels like a shit stirring article
Victor in CT : 11/12/2020 9:59 am : link : reply
In comment 15043269 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
trying to create a divide between Columbo/Thomas and Alexander. Disguised as a positive.
or maybe Colombo is smart enough to realize that not every technique is suitable to every player
Paul Alexander
gary_from_chester : 11/12/2020 10:03 am : link : reply
Is a self promoter who was canned in Dallas. Has an axe to grind IMO. Crap article by Lombardo.
Here is Paul Alexander’s site
Paul Alexander - ( New Window )
OL technique isn't like flipping a switch
regulator : 11/12/2020 10:04 am : link : reply
This is shit-stirring article.
Is this a second article
JonC : 11/12/2020 10:05 am : link : reply
from the same dude? Sounds like an axe to grind with Colombo.
so the same guy shitting on thomas a week or two ago
Platos : 11/12/2020 10:12 am : link : reply
is now claiming he's using his old technique...
which if you have eyes, know isn't true...
Paul Alexander
MattyKid : 11/12/2020 10:13 am : link : reply
Was on NFL Radio (Sirius) 2 weeks ago and discussed his technique at length. He worked with him prior to the draft and mentioned that he wasn't applying the strengths that made him a first rounder. Made the statement " I don't know who's in his ear" with respect to his change in technique (dig at Columbo). Alexander stated before the draft that Thomas was the best NFL ready tackle in the draft. Self promotion? Probably but I'm just happy he's playing better
This guy, a few weeks ago: "He's not using his Georgia technique"
Heisenberg : 11/12/2020 10:25 am : link : reply
Now: "He's using his Georgia technique"
Wow, some analysis. Basically said nothing more than he stunk and now he doesn't stink.
I agree
DRich1980 : 11/12/2020 11:12 am : link : reply
I see what he is say when I him struggling it was because he was using the punch something they didn't do at Georgia and it showed because whenever he punched he was off balance but in the last 2 weeks he when back to what he did a Georgia in where he would kind of open his chest and then grab the defender and when he gets his hands on them it's over
Well let’s see if he can block
Carl in CT : 11/12/2020 11:13 am : link : reply
Philly this time.
I agree
DRich1980 : 11/12/2020 11:15 am : link : reply
I see what he is saying when I saw him struggling it was because he was using the punch something they didn't do at Georgia and it showed because whenever he punched he was off balance but in the last 2 weeks he went back to what he did a Georgia in where he would kind of open his chest and then grab the defender and when he gets his hands on them it's over
RE: Matt
giants#1 : 11/12/2020 11:17 am : link : reply
In comment 15043277 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
Lombardo sucks. This is the same guy that claimed the Giants were getting Takk.
This. One unnamed "source" in the NFL claims Thomas reverted to his GA technique. Quotes from Paul Alexander and he doesn't even make that claim.
IDK
GoDeep13 : 11/12/2020 12:12 pm : link : reply
How much is true and how much is just talk but I did notice Thomas’s kick step looked different. As for the punch, I think he punched well (and did it with power) vs Washington.
I remember several of Thomas's post-game interviews in which he
Ira : 11/12/2020 1:12 pm : link : reply
said he was able to get by on athleticism in college, but needed to work on improving his technique to compete in the nfl. So I agree that the article is wrong.
That being said, I'm delighted that we got three young offensive linemen including two tackles who are proving themselves as rookies.
Looks like there was something to it after all. A bit of a shocker. We’ll see how this affects the team in the Cinci game.
Mike Garafolo on twitter with video - ( New Window )
After that initial shock, it's like, ok, this is Judges team and if this is what he wants, he must have a pretty good reason. He doesnt seem like the type to not think things through.
Gotta love his approach. He has consistently said since day one, that everyone has to buy in and work towards one goal, that's the coaches and players. He hasn't been afraid to bench players, or even out right replace them, so now it's on to the coaches. Earn your keep
I'm not going to lie I was kind of hoping for a Patrick Swayze Road house brawl where Judge dragged an unconscious Colombo out of the building.
Like when Gunny Highway knocks Swede on his ass!
Turn that around though. If Columbo sucked, shouldn't he have just been fired? Why beat around the bush and 'save face' by hiring another 'consultant'? Do the proper and right thing and just fire him, who cares if it's just half season. Admit the mistake and move on (more honorable too). That's not the 'Giant way', I know.
Quote:
In comment 15049939 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That of course, is what the Company wants you to believe.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
Thanks, as always for your positive and constructive comments.
And I don't think Judge gives a fuck how things used to work. Whatever company line you are alluding to he clearly hasn't abided by.
Executioner
#InJudgeWeTrust
So the improvement in the line may be despite Colombo.
Or, there's something else going on we aren't party to. That happens, too. Coaches get fired for the same reasons anybody else gets fired. Not just poor performance or insubordination, but all kinds of misconduct.
Or, there's something else going on we aren't party to. That happens, too. Coaches get fired for the same reasons anybody else gets fired. Not just poor performance or insubordination, but all kinds of misconduct.
It sounds like Colombo's mouth cost him his job. According to Garafalo Colombo told off Judge after the news about DeGuglielmo. Obviously Judge is not going to tolerate someone openly disrespecting him.
Makes you wonder, as many have said above, that perhaps Colombo wasn't the one turning around the OL at all. If Judge and by silence Garrett, where involved then the transition should be easy. However if this was an out of the blu move by Judge, then the OL players and Garrett could be bent out of shape a little. I sure hope not, things were just starting.
The other thing that is clear is this was a thought through move, waiting until the break week to do it
Makes you wonder, as many have said above, that perhaps Colombo wasn't the one turning around the OL at all. If Judge and by silence Garrett, where involved then the transition should be easy. However if this was an out of the blu move by Judge, then the OL players and Garrett could be bent out of shape a little. I sure hope not, things were just starting.
The other thing that is clear is this was a thought through move, waiting until the break week to do it
Whatever Garrett thinks, he's not going to opine publicly about it. They'll keep it in house
Whatever Garrett thinks, he's not going to opine publicly about it. They'll keep it in house
yeah.. Garrett will just have that stupid pedophile smile on his face and won't say anything
I have also long believed that superior athletes make poor position coaches.
Success came naturally to them and they find it harder to relate to someone who has to put in a lot of effort to succeed.
There are a lot of very successful coaches who have played enough to understand the game but often rode the bench. (Dabo Swinney, walkon Alabama WR, is a recent example.)
Quote:
wanted to bring in someone to help Columbo. Columbo didn't like it. He was fired. Lack of accountability has been one of our biggest problems for years. When you're 3-7, everything is analyzed, and everyone can be fired.
Turn that around though. If Columbo sucked, shouldn't he have just been fired? Why beat around the bush and 'save face' by hiring another 'consultant'? Do the proper and right thing and just fire him, who cares if it's just half season. Admit the mistake and move on (more honorable too). That's not the 'Giant way', I know.
Maybe they liked some aspects of Colombo's coaching, but not others? For example, maybe he was great at connecting and working with the guys, but not up to par in analyzing the tape and seeing where the breakdowns were occurring?
They were killed by injuries his last year there. That was the year Solder went down
With all that said, who knows...maybe this will end up being a precursor to a bunch more of negative stuff with Judge. And Judge will continue the line of loser head coaches since Coughlin. But I don't know Judge, and I do know Columbo. So none of the reports surprise me one bit, that Columbo wouldn't have taken the news well that Judge was getting him help on the OL...and that Columbo would have even gotten somewhat physical with Judge.
Link - ( New Window )
If Thomas plays better using his college techniques, that tells you something about MC's coaching.
I can't believe we have like a literal "In Judge We Trust" crowd, it is insane given the way that phrase completely blew up in people's faces already.
You also see the same things as when DG cut Omameh with more people praising his "willingness to admit" mistakes than properly panning him for the move.
Don't need to lay blame at anyone's feet specifically but this isn't really an event that deserves more praise than criticism. Not a good look for the franchise or Judge.
Quote:
Whatever Garrett thinks, he's not going to opine publicly about it. They'll keep it in house
yeah.. Garrett will just have that stupid pedophile smile on his face and won't say anything
Was this supposed to be funny?
I'm not personally offended but find this comment to be ridiculous.
With all that said, who knows...maybe this will end up being a precursor to a bunch more of negative stuff with Judge. And Judge will continue the line of loser head coaches since Coughlin. But I don't know Judge, and I do know Columbo. So none of the reports surprise me one bit, that Columbo wouldn't have taken the news well that Judge was getting him help on the OL...and that Columbo would have even gotten somewhat physical with Judge.
Thanks for the added color always appreciate "primary sources" definitely concerned about what exactly the culture fit with the Giants org is. Indeed something to keep an eye on
it appears they were doing this because of Judge, not Colombo
This is my concern too. Although what do we know. Colombo could have been a raving nutjob behind the scenes, pissing people off. In that case this would be a welcome relief. I can't wait until the real story comes out.
If anything I see it being a positive. This team was just put on notice. Produce or get the fuck out. Nobody's job is safe. So, get to work.
I have also long believed that superior athletes make poor position coaches.
Success came naturally to them and they find it harder to relate to someone who has to put in a lot of effort to succeed.
There are a lot of very successful coaches who have played enough to understand the game but often rode the bench. (Dabo Swinney, walkon Alabama WR, is a recent example.)
In soccer, very few great players or even elite players become successful managers. The game comes too easily for them. They don't need to think deeply about it.
Quote:
This doesn’t mess up the chemistry the team and the OL was starting to develop and build.
This is my concern too. Although what do we know. Colombo could have been a raving nutjob behind the scenes, pissing people off. In that case this would be a welcome relief. I can't wait until the real story comes out.
If you listen to the O Lineman on this team, you don't get that impression at all. In fact, they seemed to like him.
So Judge brings in a consultant, well of course
Columbo is going to feel undermined.
I don't blame him for being upset.
The guy that Judge is bringing in did such a bad job with the Pats, that BB had to bring back Scarnacchia out of retirement a few years ago.
I think he retired again after last season.
Quote:
In comment 15050405 gmoney11 said:
Quote:
This doesn’t mess up the chemistry the team and the OL was starting to develop and build.
This is my concern too. Although what do we know. Colombo could have been a raving nutjob behind the scenes, pissing people off. In that case this would be a welcome relief. I can't wait until the real story comes out.
.
If you listen to the O Lineman on this team, you don't get that impression at all. In fact, they seemed to like him.
So Judge brings in a consultant, well of course
Columbo is going to feel undermined.
I don't blame him for being upset.
The guy that Judge is bringing in did such a bad job with the Pats, that BB had to bring back Scarnacchia out of retirement a few years ago.
I think he retired again after last season.
Well, you fail to take into account the fact that the whole Pats O-Line was decimated by injuries that year. It was the year Solder went down for the whole season
If Judge wanted to bring in consultation, and Colombo flipped his lid, see ya.
Well, you fail to take into account the fact that the whole Pats O-Line was decimated by injuries that year. It was the year Solder went down for the whole season
But Belichick didn't trust DeGuglielmo going forward, especially with young guys like Andrews, Mason, Jackson, Thuney filling the interior. So he went back to Yoda... ;)
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
If Judge wanted to bring in consultation, and Colombo flipped his lid, see ya.
I think this likely recaps things correctly.
possible, sure.
Quote:
In comment 15049982 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 15049939 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
So Colombo was a bust, Judge had to step in, and since then they've been better?
That of course, is what the Company wants you to believe.
Look for Columbo to be thoroughly trashed by the team and its toadies in the media.
There have been rumblings about Thomas' technique going in the shitter long before this. If Judge really has been stepping in recently then it checks out.
I am sure it makes sense among the Believers. For the agnostics among us, Joe Judge has never played or coached o-line in his life but we are given the sugar coated Company line that He stepped in for a guy who both played and coached o-line in the NFL and the o-line was suddenly better due to His guidance and acumen.
Yeah ok. Frankly the "He got into a beef with Columbo who proceeded to kick his ass" makes more sense. For sure, you fire an employee for that but it sure doesn't say much about His Holiness' management style.
Judge either worked with the O-line and laid hands on, or he didn't. It was either reported previously he had done so or it wasn't. They either played better after he intervened, or they didn't.I don't think your point stands on merits, rather prejudice, and don't get the manlove for Colombo.
Quote:
There’s reports saying they got into a fist fight this morning
Reports? PluraL? where are any other than the single vague one from McIntyre?
No there aren't. What's hilarious is the guy who tweeted that does not even cover the Giants and he's gone silent about this since the initial Tweet even though he's been called out on it. He got famous for 10 mins so he accomplished what he wanted
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
Colombo may have sealed his fate to never being hired again by an NFL team.
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
There was a lot glad handing about Colombo, that I was nervous about.
Colombo - ( New Window )
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
'Crash must have called the guy a cocksucker.
'Mmm...he's so romantic.'
Quote:
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
Colombo may have sealed his fate to never being hired again by an NFL team.
Really? Because a football coach called another football coach a bad name? Isn’t that par for the course these days? He felt undermined, got upset. End of career?
Quote:
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
'Crash must have called the guy a cocksucker.
'Mmm...he's so romantic.'
Right letter, but I think wrong C-word.
Quote:
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
Colombo may have sealed his fate to never being hired again by an NFL team.
I wonder who told Kim Jones that Colombo would not last?
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
Quote:
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
Sounds like Colombo called Judge a cunt.
I'm going for motherf**ker myself
For Colombo to flip out like that, he had some bottled up anger. Maybe he was annoyed and felt Judge had been undermining him in recent weeks. But, it’s clear Judge is working these coaches HARD.
For Colombo to flip out like that, he had some bottled up anger. Maybe he was annoyed and felt Judge had been undermining him in recent weeks. But, it’s clear Judge is working these coaches HARD.
I have been part of a turnaround project at my job. Everyone was asked to work extra hard, make sacrifices, to turn around the business. We did. The problem was, there was no end to that. Everyone was asked to work extra hard and make sacrifices so we could ... have the privilege of continuing to work extra hard and make sacrifices, forever. That caused some frustration among the employees. NFL coaching is so competitive, I expect it's similar. The demands are extraordinary and they never taper off.
Really? Because a football coach called another football coach a bad name? Isn’t that par for the course these days? He felt undermined, got upset. End of career?
I don't know if it's "par for the course".
Colombo called his boss the four letter C-word. That seems way over the top to me...even for football.
Quote:
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
Sounds like Colombo called Judge a cunt.
Yup. Sounds like Colombo went full Swearingen.
Never go full Swearingen.
Link - ( New Window )
So WTF changed to good for Judge. I still don't know how to feel about this team right now, but the last few weeks are the first time in a few years I have felt good about the future of this team. Even after McAdoo's fist year, I didn't feel confident in the team. Right now, I do. Judge is in full control and holding everyone accountable. It's great.
As for Thomas, I remember a few weeks back his college coach was quoted about him not doing what they taught him and what made him a first round pick. So, what I haven't seen here (maybe I missed it) is what made him go back to his Georgia technique? Was it on his own? Did that interview with the Georgia coach make an impact? Is that Judge's doing also?
Quote:
@KimJonesSports
Heard from a bunch of people today. I am convinced Joe Judge & Mark Colombo never got physical. I do believe Colombo called Judge, his boss, one of the dirtiest words in the English language.
(Shoutout to person who told me prior to season that Colombo wouldn't work out.) #NYG
'Crash must have called the guy a cocksucker.
'Mmm...he's so romantic.'
Great movie
Bull Durham - ( New Window )
I do too, although I don't think we should sugarcoat this in terms of the timing and the way it went down. Whether Judge or Colombo brought it to a head, I don't think it helps a bunch of rookies to have their position coach fired mid-season. Better to have an orderly transition.
But if that wasn't in the cards here, so be it.
So WTF changed to good for Judge. I still don't know how to feel about this team right now, but the last few weeks are the first time in a few years I have felt good about the future of this team. Even after McAdoo's fist year, I didn't feel confident in the team. Right now, I do. Judge is in full control and holding everyone accountable. It's great.
As for Thomas, I remember a few weeks back his college coach was quoted about him not doing what they taught him and what made him a first round pick. So, what I haven't seen here (maybe I missed it) is what made him go back to his Georgia technique? Was it on his own? Did that interview with the Georgia coach make an impact? Is that Judge's doing also?
All this crap came from Paul Alexander who has a major ax to grind with Columbo. Who knew offensive line coaches were all a bunch of Mary’s?
This all comes to the fact Judge had to work with the offensive line, wanted to bring in an assistant, Columbo took it like the asshole he apparently is, and Judge fired him because their relationship was over. All this stuff about his “Georgia technique” is a bunch of unsubstantiated fluff. That Bobby Skinner guy has broken this down.
2. Frees up Judge to do other things rather than just work with the OL
3. Bring in a guy who has a proven track record of coaching up the HogMollies
4. Happens at a decent time....the bye, so at least they will have a full week to get to know the new boss
Assuming this is true, how do we unpack this?
Does this confirm that Judge let Garrett make the call on Colombo? And know Judge is pulling rank and making the move for "his guy"...?
Quote:
Another source added that the hands-on Judge wanted to bring in "one of his guys" to capture more control at a position that is not his expertise.
Assuming this is true, how do we unpack this?
Does this confirm that Judge let Garrett make the call on Colombo? And know Judge is pulling rank and making the move for "his guy"...?
I'm thinking that bringing on DD as an assistant was the first move in replacing Colombo. He gets all the players used to him, learns the players and schemes, reports all going on to Judge, then Judge lets Colombo go at the end of the season. Colombo saw it coming and blew up.
Munchak is a perfect fit for the Giants style of play and would take this group to a new level.
MARC: You can’t fire me I QUIT!
But on some real, I think things got physical, pushing, shoving, punches thrown. These are grown men, lots of testosterone needed to coach NFL players.. which story do you believe?
MARC: You can’t fire me I QUIT!
Quote:
The OL is starting to play well, rookies are rounding out, etc. Then you read about Judge stepping in and assisting in coaching, and Thomas reverting back to his college technique and it answers a lot.
So WTF changed to good for Judge. I still don't know how to feel about this team right now, but the last few weeks are the first time in a few years I have felt good about the future of this team. Even after McAdoo's fist year, I didn't feel confident in the team. Right now, I do. Judge is in full control and holding everyone accountable. It's great.
As for Thomas, I remember a few weeks back his college coach was quoted about him not doing what they taught him and what made him a first round pick. So, what I haven't seen here (maybe I missed it) is what made him go back to his Georgia technique? Was it on his own? Did that interview with the Georgia coach make an impact? Is that Judge's doing also?
All this crap came from Paul Alexander who has a major ax to grind with Columbo. Who knew offensive line coaches were all a bunch of Mary’s?
This all comes to the fact Judge had to work with the offensive line, wanted to bring in an assistant, Columbo took it like the asshole he apparently is, and Judge fired him because their relationship was over. All this stuff about his “Georgia technique” is a bunch of unsubstantiated fluff. That Bobby Skinner guy has broken this down.
Quote:
But hey,he's the best 3-7 coach in the league
According to some, he’s leading them to a super bowl....:this year!!
That would be me. lol
Columbo is liked by his players, is probably a decent OL coach (past resume) but our young roster needed more help, evidenced by Judge stepping to help out and that having a positive effect. Possibly Judge wasn't in full agreement with the coaching style, techniques being taught.
We assume that the help that was needed wasn't something that could come from assistant position coaches, they already have those - it needed another top level guy.
So Judge efficiently went back to DeGuglielmo, his still unemployed 2nd choice OL coach candidate and asked him to come in and help out. It seems pretty clear this was not discussed with Columbo before, which is maybe a little bit disrespectful but also could indicate that Judge, knowing Columbo, foresaw that such a conversation would not be productive and had already made up his mind about bringing in DeGuglielmo.
So then Judge tells Columbo about it and he flips his shit & calls Judge some nasty words. Even though this is apparently is in character for Columbo, Judge don't play that, so Judge fires him. The new guy is the now interim OL position coach.
I have no questions about this.
Though I am slightly curious if Judge could have weathered the outrage from Columbo and talked him around. I assume there was more to it than that (wrong techniques, not on the same page...) so that wasn't really an option once it got to the name-calling. I don't really care that much about this point. It's Judge's business and he handled it.
also i think the 4 letter C word is CUNT. its CUNT guys.
You get the pissed off Dad treatment.
You call Judge a &@#^*!$
Your ass is fired.
Quote:
Really? Because a football coach called another football coach a bad name? Isn’t that par for the course these days? He felt undermined, got upset. End of career?
I don't know if it's "par for the course".
Colombo called his boss the four letter C-word. That seems way over the top to me...even for football.
Lmao
Quote:
Quote:
Another source added that the hands-on Judge wanted to bring in "one of his guys" to capture more control at a position that is not his expertise.
Assuming this is true, how do we unpack this?
Does this confirm that Judge let Garrett make the call on Colombo? And know Judge is pulling rank and making the move for "his guy"...?
I'm thinking that bringing on DD as an assistant was the first move in replacing Colombo. He gets all the players used to him, learns the players and schemes, reports all going on to Judge, then Judge lets Colombo go at the end of the season. Colombo saw it coming and blew up.
Yeah, I think you are correct. For whatever reason, Judge was not overall happy with Colombo. Wanted to bring DD in and then after the season let MC go and elevate DD to OL coach from assistant. Colombo read the writing on the all.
The Giants have an assistant OL coach already, so bringing DD seems superfluous. But if true that Judge needed to take a hands on approach with the line, then he was right to bring in DD. Doing this on the bye week also allows this to happen with most of the team away and out of earshot.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Thanks.
I guess it's pretty serious.
The run blocking has gotten better, but the pass protection is horrid.
You see the stats from last week, that when well protected, Jones was 18-18 in passing.
No brainer that the OL needs to perform better. Especially pass protection.
Judge is beholden to noone... he wants it fixed.
I say GOOD!
The run blocking has gotten better, but the pass protection is horrid.
You see the stats from last week, that when well protected, Jones was 18-18 in passing.
No brainer that the OL needs to perform better. Especially pass protection.
Judge is beholden to noone... he wants it fixed.
I say GOOD!
noone? you mean no one? (two words)
The run blocking has gotten better, but the pass protection is horrid.
You see the stats from last week, that when well protected, Jones was 18-18 in passing.
No brainer that the OL needs to perform better. Especially pass protection.
Judge is beholden to noone... he wants it fixed.
I say GOOD!
Agreed, good riddance to Colombo.
Quote:
Has been shit all year. Just because the last 2 weeks they have been slightly better... slightly better than shit is still shit.
The run blocking has gotten better, but the pass protection is horrid.
You see the stats from last week, that when well protected, Jones was 18-18 in passing.
No brainer that the OL needs to perform better. Especially pass protection.
Judge is beholden to noone... he wants it fixed.
I say GOOD!
noone? you mean no one? (two words)
hey, I got beholden right!
Columbo is liked by his players, is probably a decent OL coach (past resume) but our young roster needed more help, evidenced by Judge stepping to help out and that having a positive effect. Possibly Judge wasn't in full agreement with the coaching style, techniques being taught.
We assume that the help that was needed wasn't something that could come from assistant position coaches, they already have those - it needed another top level guy.
So Judge efficiently went back to DeGuglielmo, his still unemployed 2nd choice OL coach candidate and asked him to come in and help out. It seems pretty clear this was not discussed with Columbo before, which is maybe a little bit disrespectful but also could indicate that Judge, knowing Columbo, foresaw that such a conversation would not be productive and had already made up his mind about bringing in DeGuglielmo.
So then Judge tells Columbo about it and he flips his shit & calls Judge some nasty words. Even though this is apparently is in character for Columbo, Judge don't play that, so Judge fires him. The new guy is the now interim OL position coach.
I have no questions about this.
I think you summed it up very well ... I’ll add again that the Giants have (4) rookies on the active roster, plus a 2nd year guy (Barton) who we know very little about, and (2) 3rd year guys (Gates and Will) who still have a way to grow. It was great idea to bring in another set of experienced hands to help and Colombo should have accepted it as an opportunity to learn more himself. Along with Zeitler, there is more talent on this OL than I’ve seen in forever.
Graduate assistant
Boston University (1993–1996)
Assistant head coach & offensive line coach
Connecticut (1997–1998)
Offensive line coach
South Carolina (1999–2003)
Offensive line coach
New York Giants (2004–2008)
Assistant offensive line & quality control coach
Miami Dolphins (2009–2011)
Offensive line coach
New York Jets (2012)
Offensive line coach
New England Patriots (2014–2015)
Offensive line coach
San Diego Chargers (2016)
Assistant offensive line coach
Miami Dolphins (2017)
Offensive line coach
Indianapolis Colts (2018)
Offensive line coach
Miami Dolphins (2019)
Offensive line coach
New York Giants (2020–present)
Offensive line coach
I am guessing he rents rather than buys.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Putting your hands on your boss in anyway is never a good idea.
It's one thing to call another guy that, but sorta pathetic that others can't even reference the term other than with an abbreviation.
Quote:
What I've heard..
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Putting your hands on your boss in anyway is never a good idea.
Exactly
Quote:
What I've heard..
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Thanks.
This is what I have been thinking. Usually things like this are not a one time thing. I would bet there were issues going on for a while behind the scenes. If it was a one time confrontation it likely could have been worked out. This just sounds to me like the "straw that broke the camels back" type of thing.
If this is the case, then a change may be a good thing. No employee or organization likes to be surrounded by conflict
Quote:
.. Link - ( New Window )
That's a great scene. I still haven't read the book, but I intend to. Loved the movie.
I'm not usually one of those people and I don't even like baseball but the book is infinitely better.
Technique, scheme, I don’t know. Colombo might have been stuck on what worked for Zeke Elliot, expecting it to work with Barkley, but now had to make it work with Gallman, Freeman, and Morris.
DeG may not have a great personality but has the experience in technique and scheme to be successful. He gets a tryout to see if he fits where Colombo obviously didn’t.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Jesus, if that's true Colombo must be a real hothead. That's next level prick to do that to your boss.
Quote:
What I've heard..
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Jesus, if that's true Colombo must be a real hothead. That's next level prick to do that to your boss.
If this is the way this went down, yeah Columbo is an asshole, but as a people manager you have to see this happening. Sit him down, explain the situation, and if he isn’t onboard, sayanara.
lol. Got to be some irony in there somewhere.
He doesn't have time for this dumb shit.
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Thanks for sharing the info.
+1
Colombo was gonna be replaced this off season, and he accelerated it himself with his blow up at JJ.
Quote:
In comment 15051088 Peppers said:
Quote:
What I've heard..
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Jesus, if that's true Colombo must be a real hothead. That's next level prick to do that to your boss.
If this is the way this went down, yeah Columbo is an asshole, but as a people manager you have to see this happening. Sit him down, explain the situation, and if he isn’t onboard, sayanara.
Yeah good lesson for Judge going forward. Should not have let Colombo hear this from someone else.
Appreciate the info, Peppers.
Great question. We probably never checked. Bunch of luddites in that FO.
Quote:
men can't bring themselves to say cunt.
lol. Got to be some irony in there somewhere.
Only a dick would use the word cunt.
If you're a decent person, you want to give the assistant a little wiggle-room to continue his career without the press all over him.
Quote:
What I've heard..
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Jesus, if that's true Colombo must be a real hothead. That's next level prick to do that to your boss.
True, although if I found out that my boss had hired a consultant behind my back that specializes precisely in my discipline of expertise, I wouldn't consider that a particularly good boss, either.
People bring in consultants all the time. There's any number of reasons why a boss might think that an extra set of eyes and ears could be of value, especially if there's a significant difference in experience level. But not making the employee aware of it is bad management, no matter how good of a job Judge is doing so far.
Quote:
In comment 15051088 Peppers said:
Quote:
What I've heard..
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Jesus, if that's true Colombo must be a real hothead. That's next level prick to do that to your boss.
True, although if I found out that my boss had hired a consultant behind my back that specializes precisely in my discipline of expertise, I wouldn't consider that a particularly good boss, either.
People bring in consultants all the time. There's any number of reasons why a boss might think that an extra set of eyes and ears could be of value, especially if there's a significant difference in experience level. But not making the employee aware of it is bad management, no matter how good of a job Judge is doing so far.
What you say is true in the corporate world ... but let’s not confuse that with the NFL which has more of a military like hierarchy. All coaches are to varying degree, control freaks and they are under no obligation to gain ‘buy in’ from their assistants or anyone else unless they see it necessary. Sure JJ could have done it differently if he wanted to, but don’t call it bad mgmt, especially without knowing any of the backstory details. His job is to put a winner on the field and go about it anyway he chooses.
And that was right after Colombo’s last game as an NFL player
Quote:
In comment 15051173 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 15051088 Peppers said:
Quote:
What I've heard..
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
Jesus, if that's true Colombo must be a real hothead. That's next level prick to do that to your boss.
True, although if I found out that my boss had hired a consultant behind my back that specializes precisely in my discipline of expertise, I wouldn't consider that a particularly good boss, either.
People bring in consultants all the time. There's any number of reasons why a boss might think that an extra set of eyes and ears could be of value, especially if there's a significant difference in experience level. But not making the employee aware of it is bad management, no matter how good of a job Judge is doing so far.
What you say is true in the corporate world ... but let’s not confuse that with the NFL which has more of a military like hierarchy. All coaches are to varying degree, control freaks and they are under no obligation to gain ‘buy in’ from their assistants or anyone else unless they see it necessary. Sure JJ could have done it differently if he wanted to, but don’t call it bad mgmt, especially without knowing any of the backstory details. His job is to put a winner on the field and go about it anyway he chooses.
Staffs change all the time though, and you want a position on your staff to be attractive to potential coaching talent. These assistants aren't grunts that have to be there.
If the optics are bad, Judge will learn and handle things differently in the future.
Maybe he didnt have the opportunity because someone got ahead of him. Perhaps, this was the convo to inform Colombo he was bringing in Gugs to help? Again, conjecture.
Who's the rat?
Quote:
before he found out through the rumor mill. Nothing wrong with making the move, but that’s a little inexperience on Judge’s part.
Maybe he didnt have the opportunity because someone got ahead of him. Perhaps, this was the convo to inform Colombo he was bringing in Gugs to help? Again, conjecture.
Who's the rat?
Fair questions. We’re all making guesses, none of us were in the building.
And all that aside - regardless of how it went down, sounds like Colombo was an asshole about it, and Judge did the right thing by firing him immediately
Quote:
In comment 15051418 mfsd said:
Quote:
before he found out through the rumor mill. Nothing wrong with making the move, but that’s a little inexperience on Judge’s part.
Maybe he didnt have the opportunity because someone got ahead of him. Perhaps, this was the convo to inform Colombo he was bringing in Gugs to help? Again, conjecture.
Who's the rat?
Fair questions. We’re all making guesses, none of us were in the building.
And all that aside - regardless of how it went down, sounds like Colombo was an asshole about it, and Judge did the right thing by firing him immediately
Agree 100%; ego is involved especially when you think you're good at your job.
Quote:
before he found out through the rumor mill. Nothing wrong with making the move, but that’s a little inexperience on Judge’s part.
Maybe he didnt have the opportunity because someone got ahead of him. Perhaps, this was the convo to inform Colombo he was bringing in Gugs to help? Again, conjecture.
Who's the rat?
IMO, there's no "didn't have the opportunity" here because Colombo should have been told before anyone other than DeGuglielmo himself (or maybe Garrett too, at most - I'm assuming here that neither DG nor ownership would have even accidentally hung JJ out by mentioning anything to MC). It sounds like DD has been in contact with JJ for more than just the past couple of days, so JJ would have had the opportunity to make MC aware of it if he so chose.
I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging that one element of this is not especially favorable for Judge. I don't think it makes him a bad coach or a bad person, but it's the first time that I think his inexperience as a HC may have been on display just a bit.
It's one thing to call another guy that, but sorta pathetic that others can't even reference the term other than with an abbreviation.
Now both these guys had enormously more responsibility and pressure on them. Both were in different leagues in terms of maintaining self control.
So suddenly, Ike shows up at Bradleys headquarters and tells him he wants him to hold up, set his line and also take and hold a town they had not talked about and then wait for the Germans and for Patton. He does this in public (meaning within the hearing range of other members on their respective staffs) without regard for Bradleys feelings or input
Bradley get very upset (for him and compared to his normal range of reactions) and pushes back in a way he never did before. He does not want his hands tied, doesnt want to wait and as far as he is concerned, Patton should and does report to him.
He tells Ike he is going to resign for under these orders he cant be accountable to the American people and he wants to tell the families of the troops he commands ( close to a half a million) that he is resigning because he cant protect the boys under these orders.
Ike gets pissed at what he sees as insubordination and a reaction without realizing that Ike knows something he does not.
"Brad, its pointless to resign for that reason. You are only accountable to me. You are not accountable to the American people. Only I am. Now lets you and I take this in the other room to discuss"
Bradley takes this in and gets more agitated and continues in the board room in front of the Americans, Montgomerys staff, De Gaulles staff and some press.
Ike steps closer and puts his hands on Bradleys shoulders right over his stars and says while Bradley is in his rant:
" Brad, but these are my orders. They are still my orders Brad. And they will be my orders. Understand Brad?"
So Bradley stops suddenly and completely, collects himself and goes and starts giving Ike's desired orders down the chain.
About 15 minutes later Bradley says to Ike: "Ike ( they were friends) im getting a lot of questions. Why are we supposed to be taking and holding Bastogne?"
"Because"
Depends on how you look at it. Paul Alexander was fired by dallas and replaced by Colombo, who was his assistant. Could there be something there?
Proving ships do pass in the night without seeing each other