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"You are what your record says"

BestFeature : 11/19/2020 3:12 pm
Does anyone else hate this saying? To me the two types of people that say that are a) Nostalgic for Bill Parcells b) Need to show how competitive they are. Who cares how close it was it's all about winning!

I can see it from Parcells's standpoint. He doesn't want his team being ok with losses or making excuses. It's a motivational tactic. But if you're trying to objectively analyze a team it's a terrible measure for many reasons. Here are a few:

1) If we're talking about projections, the margin of losses and difficulty of schedule played matters. If your team is 4-4 and you had the toughest schedule in the league you're most likely better than 4-4 after playing the easiest schedule in the league. And if you're projecting the second half of the season against similar strength of schedule, the first team will more likely do better. Same thing about margin of victory.

2) If one team is a bunch of vets that have played uneven and the other team is a young team that started off 0-4 and have been improving, there's a significant difference when projecting the last 8 games and beyond.

3) I've been posting here for a while, back when we were good. I've never seen that quote used when someone was trying to diminish a good record as a way to defend the record. Or at the very least I've seen it used a lot less in that situation. It's always used by curmudgeons who want to diminish a team playing hard and sometimes even well in losses. If you only use this quote to rain on people's parade when the Giants were 1-7 and playing better than their record indicated but not when the Giants were 6-2 but looking worse than the record then you're just a negative Nancy and don't actually believe in this quote.
Similar to:  
Capt. Don : 11/19/2020 3:20 pm : link
"I'm not into moral victories but..."

“It is what it is...”  
mfsd : 11/19/2020 3:26 pm : link
.
whatever floats your boat  
Greg from LI : 11/19/2020 3:29 pm : link
.
If my aunt had balls  
Spider43 : 11/19/2020 3:37 pm : link
She'd be...
There is a certain finality to it  
mattlawson : 11/19/2020 3:40 pm : link
And I don’t typically use that phrase outside of football context but It’s a phrase that is certainly use a lot around here
I think I hate the saying  
LBH15 : 11/19/2020 3:40 pm : link
"Negative Nancy" a lot more.
yeah I agree  
OdellBeckhamJr : 11/19/2020 4:08 pm : link
the team looks so much better than anything we've seen since 2017, so to lob out the Parcells quote "you are what your record says you are" is lazy IMO.

It's disappointing the team is 3-7, but I see a lot of positives and things the Giants and Judge can build from this year.
I like the saying, and overall its true  
PatersonPlank : 11/19/2020 4:09 pm : link
However teams can be improving. We are 3-7 and for the year that is what we are. However we have won 2 in a row and are improving, even in our losses. So I sort of agree with Parcells, but I don't like when someone says that the Giants are getting better and then gets shot down with "you are what your record says you are". Both can be true.
-  
Dukie Dimes : 11/19/2020 4:10 pm : link
If anyone starts a conversation with you saying, “not to be rude, but...” you better brace yourself.
RE: I like the saying, and overall its true  
BestFeature : 11/19/2020 4:11 pm : link
In comment 15051563 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
However teams can be improving. We are 3-7 and for the year that is what we are. However we have won 2 in a row and are improving, even in our losses. So I sort of agree with Parcells, but I don't like when someone says that the Giants are getting better and then gets shot down with "you are what your record says you are". Both can be true.


But would they be the same team as if they were a veteran team that lost their last 7 in blowout fashion?
RE: -  
BestFeature : 11/19/2020 4:15 pm : link
In comment 15051564 Dukie Dimes said:
Quote:
If anyone starts a conversation with you saying, “not to be rude, but...” you better brace yourself.


Haha, or "with all due respect".
RE: I think I hate the saying  
EricJ : 11/19/2020 4:20 pm : link
In comment 15051543 LBH15 said:
Quote:
"Negative Nancy" a lot more.


I hope there are no mirrors in your home
RE: RE: -  
EricJ : 11/19/2020 4:21 pm : link
In comment 15051571 BestFeature said:
Quote:


Haha, or "with all due respect".


yeah especially when the person in question has not earned any respect yet
At the end of the day  
cjac : 11/19/2020 4:23 pm : link
its all water under the bridge
I recall a few years  
rebel yell : 11/19/2020 4:32 pm : link
back a 9-7 Cardinals team made it all the way to the SB and was one play away from winning it all. I prefer "on any given day."
RE: I recall a few years  
Greg from LI : 11/19/2020 4:34 pm : link
In comment 15051586 rebel yell said:
Quote:
back a 9-7 Cardinals team made it all the way to the SB and was one play away from winning it all. I prefer "on any given day."


What this has to do with the 3-7 Giants, I'm not clear about.
Unlike other shit  
David B. : 11/19/2020 4:36 pm : link
It doesn't negate what comes immediately after it. Like, "not to be an asshole, but . . ."

Parcells was RIGHT. You ARE what your record says you are.
That doesn't mean the arrow can't be pointing UP, but if you finish strong, and you're 5-11, you may be seeing progress, but you shouldn't assume you next season will be a winning one.

Put it another way, it's hard to achieve a very misleading W-L record in the NFL.
This article feels perfectly appropriate for this thread  
mfsd : 11/19/2020 4:43 pm : link
Gil Brandt’s three teams that are better than their record (including the Giants), and three teams that are worse than their record


Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I recall a few years  
rebel yell : 11/19/2020 4:43 pm : link
In comment 15051588 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15051586 rebel yell said:


Quote:


back a 9-7 Cardinals team made it all the way to the SB and was one play away from winning it all. I prefer "on any given day."



What this has to do with the 3-7 Giants, I'm not clear about.


Absolutely nothing. Simply poking holes in the "you are what your record says," quote. I was unaware it needed to be about the Giants. Thank you for enlightening me. I feel smarter already.
In the NFL...  
bw in dc : 11/19/2020 4:48 pm : link
I think you pretty much are what your record says you are largely due to how the league is structured. The aim is to distribute talent as evenly as possible. While there isn't a perfect distribution of talent, and it's hard to quantify injuries, but the draft set-up, free agency, hard cap, etc get pretty damn close. And a sixteen game season seems to be more than a fair sample size to judge.

In contrast, there is college football where there is an uneven distribution of talent. So if you are undefeated in the Mountain West Conference it doesn't mean you are in the same class as a one or two loss Alabama team in the SEC.
I am guilty of using Parcell's quote on this board, at least once  
Marty in Albany : 11/19/2020 4:51 pm : link
and probably several times. The full quote is:
"You are what your record says you are."

However, in terms of whether I have used the quote effectively and in proper context, I...stand on my record. ;-)
RE: Unlike other shit  
BillKo : 11/19/2020 4:57 pm : link
In comment 15051590 David B. said:
Quote:
Put it another way, it's hard to achieve a very misleading W-L record in the NFL.


The only thing I will say to this is, the NFL season is a small sample size - 16 games. Turnovers, penalties, lucky breaks can sway your record.

MLB is much different - large sample size where things even out over the course of a season. Same w/ the NBA/NHL.

This saying from Parcells is nice at the end of a season when you've either overachieved or underachieved.

Who cares what the record of the Giants is right now......it's all about progress and getting young players to understand NFL football.

Save the term for when the Giants are contenders - and either suceeed or don't.
RE: RE: I think I hate the saying  
LBH15 : 11/19/2020 5:30 pm : link
In comment 15051576 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15051543 LBH15 said:


Quote:


"Negative Nancy" a lot more.



I hope there are no mirrors in your home


Yep, plenty. Don't confuse negative with objective.
If my grandmother had wheels  
RobCrossRiver56 : 11/19/2020 5:50 pm : link

She would be a bike..
RE: This article feels perfectly appropriate for this thread  
Southern Man : 11/19/2020 5:58 pm : link
In comment 15051595 mfsd said:
Quote:
Gil Brandt’s three teams that are better than their record (including the Giants), and three teams that are worse than their record
Link - ( New Window )


Good find!
RE: This article feels perfectly appropriate for this thread  
uther99 : 11/19/2020 6:22 pm : link
In comment 15051595 mfsd said:
Quote:
Gil Brandt’s three teams that are better than their record (including the Giants), and three teams that are worse than their record
Link - ( New Window )


Yay, can't wait to put the Gil Brandt underachieving team award in the trophy case.
Yaeh, but you are  
section125 : 11/19/2020 6:37 pm : link
still what your record says you are.
RE: In the NFL...  
pivo : 11/19/2020 7:43 pm : link
In comment 15051602 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I think you pretty much are what your record says you are largely due to how the league is structured. The aim is to distribute talent as evenly as possible. While there isn't a perfect distribution of talent, and it's hard to quantify injuries, but the draft set-up, free agency, hard cap, etc get pretty damn close. And a sixteen game season seems to be more than a fair sample size to judge.

In contrast, there is college football where there is an uneven distribution of talent. So if you are undefeated in the Mountain West Conference it doesn't mean you are in the same class as a one or two loss Alabama team in the SEC.


But that doesn’t take into account the uneven distribution of FO talent...
I agree with the saying  
ron mexico : 11/19/2020 7:58 pm : link
If you are 4-4 and played a bunch of tough games, your record should improve after that.

They don’t award playoff seeds mid season and they don’t award points for close, well fought games.

Power rankings don’t matter at the end of the season.
RE: RE: In the NFL...  
bw in dc : 11/19/2020 8:00 pm : link
In comment 15051732 pivo said:
Quote:
In comment 15051602 bw in dc said:


Quote:


I think you pretty much are what your record says you are largely due to how the league is structured. The aim is to distribute talent as evenly as possible. While there isn't a perfect distribution of talent, and it's hard to quantify injuries, the draft set-up, free agency, hard cap, etc get pretty damn close. And a sixteen game season seems to be more than a fair sample size to judge.

In contrast, there is college football where there is an uneven distribution of talent. So if you are undefeated in the Mountain West Conference it doesn't mean you are in the same class as a one or two loss Alabama team in the SEC.



But that doesn’t take into account the uneven distribution of FO talent...


Well played.
Giants  
Dragon : 11/19/2020 8:01 pm : link
Are exactly what their record says they are wins count and losses count also. The scary thing for me is that most have seen two wins against two lousy teams and feel oh yes we’re special now. Can they win five or six games maybe but I would not bet on it now will they once again next year be 2-5/6, team again odds are very good. You have taken the throwing wheels from DJ and made him into a running QB, how long before teams adjust schemes to prevent that. In the end your still an extremely talent deprived team which has not done much to address that fault going forward.
RE: Giants  
BestFeature : 11/19/2020 10:37 pm : link
In comment 15051749 Dragon said:
Quote:
Are exactly what their record says they are wins count and losses count also. The scary thing for me is that most have seen two wins against two lousy teams and feel oh yes we’re special now. Can they win five or six games maybe but I would not bet on it now will they once again next year be 2-5/6, team again odds are very good. You have taken the throwing wheels from DJ and made him into a running QB, how long before teams adjust schemes to prevent that. In the end your still an extremely talent deprived team which has not done much to address that fault going forward.


Losses are losses but wins aren't wins as long as they're against bad teams.
It's annoying  
Prude : 11/20/2020 12:37 am : link
80% of the time it's used the poster wants someone fired or cut and doesn't want to give that player/coach/gm any positive recognition. Just a lazy way of handwaving away any argument.
Gents  
Dragon : 11/20/2020 12:49 am : link
I’m a big Giants and Dolphins fan I felt for sure both teams would be a combined 1- 7, to start the season, things looked very good for my expectations. Since that time the Phins have done almost everything to become a young rebuilding team while piling up wins. The Giants have gone in the opposite direction continually bringing in older vets while piling up losses. I’m ok with that if we’re building for the future but at seasons end what will the team look like going forward much like it did starting this season, that I don’t understand or feel will point this team in the right direction.
Losses  
Dragon : 11/20/2020 12:51 am : link
Yes I’m ok with the losses if we’re building a young team.
Giants were 0-5  
joeinpa : 11/20/2020 7:44 am : link
Now 3-7,

3-2 with a meaningful game, their record says they are trending up, with a shot at winning the division.
RE: Giants were 0-5  
LBH15 : 11/20/2020 8:00 am : link
In comment 15051901 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Now 3-7,

3-2 with a meaningful game, their record says they are trending up, with a shot at winning the division.


It also means they started playing lesser teams, like the ones in their division.

:- )
Things can be argued  
section125 : 11/20/2020 8:26 am : link
a lot. But eventhough the Giants have lost seven and only beat 2 pretty shitty teams, they were only out of one game which was probably a coaching eff up.

If Jones had even an average Jones game, they beat a pretty damn good Tampa team. Aside from Jones, the rest of the team clearly out played Tampa. Ryan Lewis and Engram pretty much blew the games to Philly and Dallas. Most games come down to just a handful of plays.

And far as other teams adjusting and scheming to take away Jones runs, that just means other things will open up. If that means safeties need to stay closer to the line, that means parts of the field will be more open. If it means LBs need to stay closer, then the area behind the LBs will be open or the flats.....it is then up to Jones to read that and make the adjustment.
RE: “It is what it is...”  
Stufftherun : 11/20/2020 9:10 am : link
In comment 15051528 mfsd said:
Quote:
.


The absolute worst and laziest cop out! Can't stand "it"!
RE: If my aunt had balls  
Scyber : 11/20/2020 10:11 am : link
In comment 15051540 Spider43 said:
Quote:
She'd be...


a better lay?
The Giants could win the division  
giantstock : 11/21/2020 1:00 pm : link
Yes -"you are what your record says" is meaningful. It's more meaningful than a poster trying to twist it to his own bias logic. ***They are 3-7. That's their record. Win some more games then you can start to say "our record shows we won 4 out of our last 5"-- then that has meaning. Losing close is still losing.

However- the Giants could win the division. Hold on to that rather than focus on the other.
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