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Lombardi: Judge wanted DeGuglielmo from the beginning

Sean : 11/19/2020 9:40 pm
I know Lombardi is polarizing here, but I absolutely loved listening to the beginning of today’s GM Shuffle podcast. I can’t imagine anyone here not being excited about Judge, just listen to the beginning of this podcast. Lombardi has plenty of Patriot connections.

-Judge wanted DeGuglielmo, he wanted as many NE coaches as possible
-Once Garrett was hired, Garrett banged the drum for Colombo and the Judge complied
-What Colombo was doing was not at all what NE teaches with regards to the OL. Couldn’t be any different.
-Judge is not afraid of confrontation, when he sees a problem he’s going to face it head on and look to fix it.
-Colombo wasn’t having it, and he’s out. Judge wanted DeGuglielmo anyway.

This will beg the question about Garrett and who pushed for him as OC. There is a Saban connection, but it’s clear Colombo was not a fit with Judge is building here.

I just love the leadership here from Judge, not many coaches would have approached this issue head on actually looking for a solution. It aligns exactly with his intro presser.

Podcast linked below, it’s the first topic discussed.
Link - ( New Window )
I don't trust Lombardi.  
robbieballs2003 : 11/19/2020 9:52 pm : link
For years he preached that the Giants have to do things the Pats way and criticized us for it. Then we hire Judge and he criticized us for it. What is it?
Just to be clear...  
bw in dc : 11/19/2020 9:53 pm : link
what "NE" teaches is what Dante Scarnecchia taught.

I have NO idea what DeGuglielmo taught/teaches. Because whatever he was teaching wasn't what Belichick wanted because he pulled Scarnecchia - sayonara DD - out of retirement to re-build their OL in 2016. And then the Pats went to 3 SBs and won 2.

Judge gave Garrett hiring power and signed off. Any talk of what Judge actually wanted sounds like sour grapes...

If the account by one poster is true (other thread) that Judge never told Colomobo and Colombo found out through other sources, that is a bad look. And hopefully something Judge learns from going forward...


I am a big fan of Lombardi, btw. So I usually but what he's selling...

He goes on to say he doesn’t this Garrett is a fit here  
Sean : 11/19/2020 9:54 pm : link
.
RE: Just to be clear...  
BestFeature : 11/19/2020 10:06 pm : link
In comment 15051795 bw in dc said:
Quote:
what "NE" teaches is what Dante Scarnecchia taught.

I have NO idea what DeGuglielmo taught/teaches. Because whatever he was teaching wasn't what Belichick wanted because he pulled Scarnecchia - sayonara DD - out of retirement to re-build their OL in 2016. And then the Pats went to 3 SBs and won 2.

Judge gave Garrett hiring power and signed off. Any talk of what Judge actually wanted sounds like sour grapes...

If the account by one poster is true (other thread) that Judge never told Colomobo and Colombo found out through other sources, that is a bad look. And hopefully something Judge learns from going forward...


I am a big fan of Lombardi, btw. So I usually but what he's selling...


You keep harping on this. It has been already mentioned that the O-line was dealing with injuries under DeGuglielmo. Also, if he's not as good as arguably the best O-line coach of all time are we supposed to lose sleep over this?
RE: Just to be clear...  
Sean : 11/19/2020 10:11 pm : link
In comment 15051795 bw in dc said:
Quote:
what "NE" teaches is what Dante Scarnecchia taught.

I have NO idea what DeGuglielmo taught/teaches. Because whatever he was teaching wasn't what Belichick wanted because he pulled Scarnecchia - sayonara DD - out of retirement to re-build their OL in 2016. And then the Pats went to 3 SBs and won 2.

Judge gave Garrett hiring power and signed off. Any talk of what Judge actually wanted sounds like sour grapes...

If the account by one poster is true (other thread) that Judge never told Colomobo and Colombo found out through other sources, that is a bad look. And hopefully something Judge learns from going forward...


I am a big fan of Lombardi, btw. So I usually but what he's selling...


So what? The bottom line is he’s familiar with the program and McDaniels & Flores bought him in after Belichick moved on from him. He’s a much better teacher for what Judge is looking to build based on his familiarity with the program.

Could Judge have handled it better? Sure. But Colombo seems wildly immature, he’s already liking tweets of a punchout video where he knocks out Judge. Guy was a hardheaded hot head it seems.
I was surprised by the move  
Ned In Atlanta : 11/19/2020 10:13 pm : link
But judge has earned the benefit of the doubt. Wasn’t Lombardi fired by BB shortly after being hired by him as a consultant a few years ago ? I can’t stand Lombardi
all  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/19/2020 10:15 pm : link
of that is possible, even likely, but Lombardi has almost no credibility when it comes to the Giants.
RE: RE: Just to be clear...  
bw in dc : 11/19/2020 10:19 pm : link
In comment 15051819 Sean said:
Quote:

So what? The bottom line is he’s familiar with the program and McDaniels & Flores bought him in after Belichick moved on from him. He’s a much better teacher for what Judge is looking to build based on his familiarity with the program.

Could Judge have handled it better? Sure. But Colombo seems wildly immature, he’s already liking tweets of a punchout video where he knocks out Judge. Guy was a hardheaded hot head it seems.


I am actually ambivalent on the DD move. I'm just ready to canonize him as some OL guru...

I'm not defending Colombo's actions at all. Just underscoring that - if true re: communication - Judge hopefully learns from the communication blunder.

Sorry...  
bw in dc : 11/19/2020 10:19 pm : link
Not ready to canonize DD... ;)
RE: RE: Just to be clear...  
bw in dc : 11/19/2020 10:23 pm : link
In comment 15051813 BestFeature said:
Quote:


You keep harping on this. It has been already mentioned that the O-line was dealing with injuries under DeGuglielmo. Also, if he's not as good as arguably the best O-line coach of all time are we supposed to lose sleep over this?


I get it.

But Belichick still lost confidence in him for some reason.

RE: all  
bw in dc : 11/19/2020 10:25 pm : link
In comment 15051822 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
of that is possible, even likely, but Lombardi has almost no credibility when it comes to the Giants.


I think Lombardi has a terrific command of how the Giants function as an organization.
RE: RE: RE: Just to be clear...  
BestFeature : 11/19/2020 10:29 pm : link
In comment 15051828 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15051813 BestFeature said:


Quote:




You keep harping on this. It has been already mentioned that the O-line was dealing with injuries under DeGuglielmo. Also, if he's not as good as arguably the best O-line coach of all time are we supposed to lose sleep over this?



I get it.

But Belichick still lost confidence in him for some reason.


It's not like he got replaced by a bum...
I agreed with everything he was saying  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/19/2020 10:36 pm : link
But then I thought he took a parting shot at the Giants. He basically said that Garrett will most likely be replaced in the offseason. That this job isn’t a good fit for him. The QB isn’t good enough to get him a Head Coaching job in the future.
Lombardi's had a great handle on the Giants  
Go Terps : 11/19/2020 10:44 pm : link
People here don't like him because he's been critical of the Giants, and fans have a hard time with criticism even when it's completely deserved.
RE: Lombardi's had a great handle on the Giants  
gidiefor : Mod : 11/19/2020 11:16 pm : link
In comment 15051842 Go Terps said:
Quote:
People here don't like him because he's been critical of the Giants, and fans have a hard time with criticism even when it's completely deserved.


Huh?

You mean Lombardi belongs to the Go Terps burn it down school -- the guy doesn't have a clue about what's going on with the Giants and nor does he appreciate being on the Giants beat -- He's a Philly guy through and thru -- it's very telling to me that you think he's got a great handle on the Giants. WTF????
He's been killing the Giants for years, and he's been dead on  
Go Terps : 11/19/2020 11:21 pm : link
"Philly guy through and through"...you think he's a fan and criticizing the Giants because of that?

He's been critical of Mara, the antiquated organization, sticking with Eli, drafting Barkley... And he's been right on all of it.
RE: He's been killing the Giants for years, and he's been dead on  
Eric on Li : 11/19/2020 11:49 pm : link
In comment 15051849 Go Terps said:
Quote:
"Philly guy through and through"...you think he's a fan and criticizing the Giants because of that?

He's been critical of Mara, the antiquated organization, sticking with Eli, drafting Barkley... And he's been right on all of it.


He's a self aggrandizing hot take artist. He's as entitled to an opinion as anyone but his track record on "insider news" has been worse than most of the asshats on this site. He lacks the actual inside access of the better journalists as well as the acumen of former league executives who actually accomplished things before turning analysts, yet acts like he's both rolled into one. Nobody has milked 1 failed year with a GM title more than him.
RE: all  
Scuzzlebutt : 11/20/2020 12:29 am : link
In comment 15051822 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
of that is possible, even likely, but Lombardi has almost no credibility when it comes to the Giants.


+1... I don’t think Lombardi knows anything, but he would love to start a narrative about tension between Judge and Garrett.
Maybe he's a hack and a hot take artist  
Go Terps : 11/20/2020 12:40 am : link
It doesn't change the fact that he's been right about what the Giants are for years now. Every criticism has borne out to be accurate, while posters here were busy for years whitewashing generally accepted truths about drafting RBs high, calling Beckham a first ballot HOFer, promising Eli revenge tours, and saying more wildly inaccurate shit for which there is no repercussion on this board.

I don't care if Lombardi is an actual clown with a red nose and a wig - he's been right about this team for years.

Sometimes I feel like there's this parallel universe where the Giants have been something other than a steaming pile of shit for these last 8 years.
RE: Maybe he's a hack and a hot take artist  
DieHard : 11/20/2020 1:17 am : link
In comment 15051861 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It doesn't change the fact that he's been right about what the Giants are for years now. Every criticism has borne out to be accurate, while posters here were busy for years whitewashing generally accepted truths about drafting RBs high, calling Beckham a first ballot HOFer, promising Eli revenge tours, and saying more wildly inaccurate shit for which there is no repercussion on this board.

I don't care if Lombardi is an actual clown with a red nose and a wig - he's been right about this team for years.

Sometimes I feel like there's this parallel universe where the Giants have been something other than a steaming pile of shit for these last 8 years.


Just because Lombardi agrees with your takes (which also happen to be the takes of a lot of BBIers) doesn't mean he has some special insight or access behind the scenes with the Giants, which was what the original point was.

As for "no repercussions" for opposition to your "generally accepted truths" about the Giants? It's a fan forum, people can think and say what they want. Get over it.
RE: Maybe he's a hack and a hot take artist  
Optimus-NY : 11/20/2020 2:50 am : link
In comment 15051861 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It doesn't change the fact that he's been right about what the Giants are for years now. Every criticism has borne out to be accurate, while posters here were busy for years whitewashing generally accepted truths about drafting RBs high, calling Beckham a first ballot HOFer, promising Eli revenge tours, and saying more wildly inaccurate shit for which there is no repercussion on this board.

I don't care if Lombardi is an actual clown with a red nose and a wig - he's been right about this team for years.

Sometimes I feel like there's this parallel universe where the Giants have been something other than a steaming pile of shit for these last 8 years.


I agree. A lot of you need to take off the blue colored glasses and face facts about Mara Tech.
It’s pretty easy to say the Giants suck, when they suck.  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2020 4:36 am : link
You can never be wrong when the results back up your take.

Nailing down why they suck is more subjective.

Nailing down the route to get better is even more subjective.

But again, it’s super easy to be right when the results, something everybody can obviously see, are always there to back up your opinion.

It’s easy to be negative and shit on everybody.
RE: Just to be clear...  
JCin332 : 11/20/2020 4:42 am : link
In comment 15051795 bw in dc said:
Quote:
what "NE" teaches is what Dante Scarnecchia taught.

I have NO idea what DeGuglielmo taught/teaches. Because whatever he was teaching wasn't what Belichick wanted because he pulled Scarnecchia - sayonara DD - out of retirement to re-build their OL in 2016. And then the Pats went to 3 SBs and won 2.

Judge gave Garrett hiring power and signed off. Any talk of what Judge actually wanted sounds like sour grapes...

If the account by one poster is true (other thread) that Judge never told Colomobo and Colombo found out through other sources, that is a bad look. And hopefully something Judge learns from going forward...


I am a big fan of Lombardi, btw. So I usually but what he's selling...


You're a big fan of Lombardi what a surprise...
of course bw  
BigBlueCane : 11/20/2020 5:23 am : link
would be the pot stirrer.

Yes BB didn't like what DD was teaching. So he replaced a 7 with a 9.

Last I looked, Judge doesn't have access to a 9. So he's going with the next best option.
RE: Maybe he's a hack and a hot take artist  
robbieballs2003 : 11/20/2020 5:31 am : link
In comment 15051861 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It doesn't change the fact that he's been right about what the Giants are for years now. Every criticism has borne out to be accurate, while posters here were busy for years whitewashing generally accepted truths about drafting RBs high, calling Beckham a first ballot HOFer, promising Eli revenge tours, and saying more wildly inaccurate shit for which there is no repercussion on this board.

I don't care if Lombardi is an actual clown with a red nose and a wig - he's been right about this team for years.

Sometimes I feel like there's this parallel universe where the Giants have been something other than a steaming pile of shit for these last 8 years.


He's been right about the Giants for years? He criticized the shit out of the Judge hire.
Lombardi for years criticized the Giants for not being the Pats.  
robbieballs2003 : 11/20/2020 5:40 am : link
It is beyond ridiculous. There have been other teams that have tried to emulate the Pats in the past/present to fall flat on their faces. Every time it was they should hire someone from the Pats. Oh they fucked up because they didn't take someone from the Pats organization. Blah blah blah. Then when they do he turns it into some racist bullshit to stay relevant. Fucm him.
RE: It’s pretty easy to say the Giants suck, when they suck.  
Go Terps : 11/20/2020 5:40 am : link
In comment 15051869 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
You can never be wrong when the results back up your take.

Nailing down why they suck is more subjective.

Nailing down the route to get better is even more subjective.

But again, it’s super easy to be right when the results, something everybody can obviously see, are always there to back up your opinion.

It’s easy to be negative and shit on everybody.


It's even easier to say ridiculous shit, be completely wrong, and then act like it never happened.

Some people come here to commiserate with other fans about how great the Giants are even when they are terrible. That's fine. Just don't expect to be taken seriously by anyone that's actually trying to understand what is actually happening, and why it's actually happening.
So the Ravens should be trading Lamar Jackson any day now, right?  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2020 5:55 am : link
You know, you like to say I’m wrong all the time a lot, and I’d like to get one thing straight.

I was wrong about what I wanted to happen. We did not fix the roster enough to support Manning in his final years. I believe he could still play and I stand by that. At the very least he could be doing what Rivers is doing in Indy without a doubt.

However, I was absolutely right every step of the way about what 5he Giants were actually going to do. It’s documented on this site.

So while you and the rest were actually throwing around the fantasy land scenarios for two years, I was actually making the real world predictions you love to bloviate about.

You’ve gotten two things right by my count. The Giants needed to trade Beckham before that was a popular opinion (which I agreed with) and Lamar Jackson was a good prospect. You’ve let all of the praise from the lowest common denominator posters on this site go to you’re head, and become a parody of yourself.

Slow down. The Giants are turning around. Jones is showing promise. All this chest beating you’re doing about right and wrong, well....

Quote:
It's even easier to say ridiculous shit, be completely wrong, and then act like it never happened.


This could easily be you next year.
You’re always right....  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2020 6:03 am : link
until you’re not.
I just listened to a Lombardi interview when Judge was hired.  
robbieballs2003 : 11/20/2020 6:12 am : link
He said the Giants are stuck in this old school mentality of George Young when he said players play, coaches coach, and scouts scout. WTF is he talking about? How does he have his finger on the pulse of the Giants? He said it is all about collaboration and the Giants need to adapt. Holy shit, he has no clue.

That was the problem with the Giants. For the longest time when asked who makes the picks in the draft Mara would always say it is a collaborative effort. That is why there was such hostility over whether to fire Coughlin or Reese. People kill Gettleman all the time for the players he brings in but it is clear as day Shurmur and Judge had a huge influence on the players brought in.

Lombardi doesn't know shit. He said the Pats use their grading system which came from George Young but it has been altered. Then he says the Giants haven't adapted yet admits he doesn't have that knowledge within the organization.

It is pretty simple, the Giants have sucked so he just criticizes everything about them without truly knowing what is happening inside the building. They're an easy target. He also said that McDaniels wasn't an option for us because we wouldn't adapt to what the Pats would do yet that is exactly what has happened so far with Judge. Hell, Gettleman came in and revamped everything. Why wouldn't Mars allow him to do that? Mara always lets his coaches/GM run things the way they deem fit. It is a lot of hypocritical comments by him hence why I can't take anything he says serious. His fall back is always that he wrote a book on leadership. Big fucking deal.
Mickey Mouse can be the o line  
rocco8112 : 11/20/2020 6:16 am : link
coach for all I care if the unit keeps trending the way it has been recently. They drove the Eagles into the end zone for a goal line TD run last week, and the Giants have improved dramatically with scoring TD's in goal to go situations mainly because for the first time in nearly a decade the team can actually run one in for a TD.

Also, to my eye, the endless runs for loss where the o line is blown up and the run goes for a loss seem to have stopped. I can't prove it, but the Giants must have been near or at the top of the NFL in runs for loss this past near decade of futility.

I don't want to alarm anybody, but the vision was for a powerful o line and stout active defensively front, both filled with big people, well it looks to be coming to fruition. Not time to pop bottles yet, but for the first time in a long time it looks to be trending the right way. Come out of the bye and smoke Cincy, and things can get even more interesting.

If things really went down the way the OP summarized, well thats an Alpha move and Judge is clearly the boss holding all accountable.

As it should be.

RE: It’s pretty easy to say the Giants suck, when they suck.  
ron mexico : 11/20/2020 6:49 am : link
In comment 15051869 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
You can never be wrong when the results back up your take.

Nailing down why they suck is more subjective.

Nailing down the route to get better is even more subjective.

But again, it’s super easy to be right when the results, something everybody can obviously see, are always there to back up your opinion.

It’s easy to be negative and shit on everybody.


This is such a shit take. It’s not not go Terps and others flipped a coin and decided on negativity. We analyzed the situation and came out what ended up as an accurate prediction.

How many times do DG and Mara have to eventually admit what we have been saying on here for you to realize some people might actually know a thing or two about football and the giants?
robbieballs2003  
Sean : 11/20/2020 7:03 am : link
You make good points. Lombardi does contradict himself a lot. He often said that Mara wanted the Patriots program in his building last year, but when he hired Judge, Lombardi said if they wanted a special teams coach they could have hired TMac. Makes no sense. You also won’t hear Lombardi criticize any team which employs either of his kids. I wonder if Judge passing over his son for QB coach had any impact on his initial opinion of Judge.

So, I don’t take everything he says seriously. However, when I heard his take with what happened with Colombo, I think there could be a lot of truth to it.
If Judge did not tell Colombo  
section125 : 11/20/2020 7:18 am : link
what he was doing, then he made a mistake. However, if someone leaked it to Colombo before Judge talked to him, then they are a piece of shit. Has anything Judge has done led you to think he was trying to sneak DD in the back door? Guy seems to be completely up front in all aspects.
It is likely that Judge viewed Colombo and DD as pretty equal in the initial interview promise, but deferred to Garrett as the OC in the choice. It is pretty obvious that Judge did not like what Colombo was doing, so he went for additional help and perhaps there had already been pushback from Colombo during the previous three weeks where Judge supposedly step in. Perhaps Judge was going to fire Colombo this week anyway as soon as DD was hired. If he fired Colombo 1st with out DD already committed, then it could have led to a weaker negotiating position and perhaps a lengthy negotiation and a period without a line coach.
IDK, all speculation.

This also may not bode well for Garrett going forward.
RE: robbieballs2003  
robbieballs2003 : 11/20/2020 7:19 am : link
In comment 15051881 Sean said:
Quote:
You make good points. Lombardi does contradict himself a lot. He often said that Mara wanted the Patriots program in his building last year, but when he hired Judge, Lombardi said if they wanted a special teams coach they could have hired TMac. Makes no sense. You also won’t hear Lombardi criticize any team which employs either of his kids. I wonder if Judge passing over his son for QB coach had any impact on his initial opinion of Judge.

So, I don’t take everything he says seriously. However, when I heard his take with what happened with Colombo, I think there could be a lot of truth to it.


Of course it is possible. But the way he is reporting it makes it sound like Judge is almost incompetent as if Garrett overuled him. Imo, Judge is not letting anybody make decisions for him. He's a big boy and makes his own decision. Imo, he probably worked closely with his coordinators and discussed the candidates. It is one thing to say that Judge took Garrett's input and another thing to say Judge wanted DD from the get go but lost out because Garrett was banging the table. It's insulting to Judge. And if Judge wanted him all along why is he only reporting this after the fact? Also, I don't think Garrett is long for this team anyway so I don't think this is some breaking news. Judge is not happy with the production of the offense overall. I am sure he's gonna do what is right for the NYG in regards to that. If Garrett wants to be here he'll buy in. If not then move it along.
We had the worst o-line coach for 2 years. Who cares if DeG is not  
Ivan15 : 11/20/2020 7:23 am : link
The best? He is the best available.

The o-line has improved. I don’t care who gets credit for it. If Judge was “consulting” with an unemployed coach, who cares? Maybe DeG was being elevated from Consultant to Assistant O-line coach and Colombo was defending the current assistant. No problem with that kind of reaction.
If it was Judge saying, “you’re doing a lousy job”, that’s unfortunate and awkward but it happens all the time in business.

Colombo is a hot head and teaches by intimidation. No surprise. That was known when he was hired. DeG is pretty close to the same guy, from what I read. Colombo’s reaction could have been and probably was anticipated by Judge who anticipates almost everything.

If DeG does nothing more than continue to emphasize what the Giants have been working on for the past month, that’s fine as it allows Judge to go back to managing the whole staff and all the positions instead of concentrating on o-line.
The problem..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/20/2020 7:26 am : link
with posters patting their own backs and keeping a scorecard is that they don't seem to reach for those misses.

If Go Terps had his wish, TJ Hockenson would have been a Giant and a first round pick used on him.

Let's not act because posters say the Giants suck that their body of work is impeccable.
Many in the media try to emulate what they feel the fans think in the  
Ira : 11/20/2020 7:29 am : link
direction they take. When the tide turns and a team that was bad starts playing better (or vice versa) the tone of their reports change.
It's been at least  
GiantsRage2007 : 11/20/2020 7:29 am : link
A decade since someone dropped multiple Sopranos quotes into normal conversation. Is this guy Lombardi for real?
Does anybody really think the Giants hired Judge to turn the team  
Spider56 : 11/20/2020 7:39 am : link
around, and then told him who to hire as his OC? Who would have been a better option? It is logical though that JG pushed for Colombo as the OL coach, so the key question to me is not when Judge told Marc, it’s did JJ first discuss the changes with JG so he wasn’t blindsided. Hopefully JG knows the Duge and has a good rapport with him.
I call BS on anything Lombardi is selling  
ZogZerg : 11/20/2020 7:46 am : link
And, it doesn't fucking matter now, does it?

Judge had to step in and help out because he thought he needed to.
RE: Does anybody really think the Giants hired Judge to turn the team  
ZogZerg : 11/20/2020 7:47 am : link
In comment 15051898 Spider56 said:
Quote:
around, and then told him who to hire as his OC? Who would have been a better option? It is logical though that JG pushed for Colombo as the OL coach, so the key question to me is not when Judge told Marc, it’s did JJ first discuss the changes with JG so he wasn’t blindsided. Hopefully JG knows the Duge and has a good rapport with him.


Yes, there are dopes on this board who believe that.
RE: Does anybody really think the Giants hired Judge to turn the team  
section125 : 11/20/2020 7:53 am : link
In comment 15051898 Spider56 said:
Quote:
around, and then told him who to hire as his OC? Who would have been a better option? It is logical though that JG pushed for Colombo as the OL coach, so the key question to me is not when Judge told Marc, it’s did JJ first discuss the changes with JG so he wasn’t blindsided. Hopefully JG knows the Duge and has a good rapport with him.


I overall agree with you on Garrett. While I am sure that Mara loves Garrett, I really doubt he ordered Judge to hire him. Hell, he was the very 1st guy I thought of when this all started(as OC not HC). As you said, was there anyone better available and was there anyone with better knowledge of the Giants than Garrett who planned for them twice per year? I'm sure Judge looked at Garrett and thought that he helped to develop Romo and Prescott into VG QBs.
We have no idea what Judge thinks of the offense. But let's face it, Garrett knows what the players are capable of doing. The line was bad to start and he lost Barkley early. I'm sure Judge and he decided to keep it basic and throw in a few gadget plays here and there to catch the defense. It seems they have opened up a little bit in the last couple weeks as the line improved.
People have been banging the table to get more vertical. Pretty hard to do when the QB is on his back.
When your management team decides to bring in help  
DavidinBMNY : 11/20/2020 7:58 am : link
The decision has already been made.

Colombo has no say in the matter.

That's how business works.

And management weighs the outcomes, prior to execution the decision. So they already knew the possibility that Colombo would be out.

My take on it, is Judge thought Columbo, without added supervision was hurting the development of the young players and Gugs was being brought in to remediate that.

You have to wonder just how hands on Judge has been with OL recently, how much of the improvement is related to that, and how much that factored into the changes.
I trust Judge, everyone was skeptical of Graham  
Danny Dimes : 11/20/2020 8:06 am : link
And Graham turned on being pretty good
RE: RE: Does anybody really think the Giants hired Judge to turn the team  
ron mexico : 11/20/2020 8:06 am : link
In comment 15051905 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In comment 15051898 Spider56 said:


Quote:


around, and then told him who to hire as his OC? Who would have been a better option? It is logical though that JG pushed for Colombo as the OL coach, so the key question to me is not when Judge told Marc, it’s did JJ first discuss the changes with JG so he wasn’t blindsided. Hopefully JG knows the Duge and has a good rapport with him.



Yes, there are dopes on this board who believe that.


It’s not unrealistic to think that Mara advocated for JG, given their relationship, JG’s qualifications and JJ’s lack of experience.
let's face it, the media is full of shit and what passes for  
Victor in CT : 11/20/2020 8:14 am : link
journalism today is just dressed up opinions to achieve clicks.

For example, in today's NY Post, Serby writes how Judge AND Jones are "ahead of schedule" compared to Parcells/Simms.

but on Nov 3:

"Except Daniel Jones blew it.

He made the mistakes he cannot stop making, mistakes that make you wonder whether he is who the Giants believed he was"
Without defending JJ  
Bill2 : 11/20/2020 8:16 am : link
There is nothing to tell to Columbo until Gugeliemo has inked a contract.

That would be true in almost every situation except in off-season when it would right to let Columbo plan ahead. Until then he had a contract and might have accepted help.

It could have even looked to the NFL that he had influence over Gugeliemo has his assistant. He could have asked Judge to play it that way.

"Mark wanted to continue rapid progress by pulling in a consultant to help out."

Not hard to think beyond the moment if you are Columbo but he went to his angry hot take routine and now he is where he is.

Lets see if the Giants get better.

Usually, what gets watched, gets done

RE: RE: It’s pretty easy to say the Giants suck, when they suck.  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2020 8:16 am : link
In comment 15051880 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 15051869 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


You can never be wrong when the results back up your take.

Nailing down why they suck is more subjective.

Nailing down the route to get better is even more subjective.

But again, it’s super easy to be right when the results, something everybody can obviously see, are always there to back up your opinion.

It’s easy to be negative and shit on everybody.



This is such a shit take. It’s not not go Terps and others flipped a coin and decided on negativity. We analyzed the situation and came out what ended up as an accurate prediction.

How many times do DG and Mara have to eventually admit what we have been saying on here for you to realize some people might actually know a thing or two about football and the giants?


You analyzed the situation?

What have Mara and Gettleman “admitted to” that backs up/confirms anything you’ve said?
RE: let's face it, the media is full of shit and what passes for  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2020 8:17 am : link
In comment 15051926 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
journalism today is just dressed up opinions to achieve clicks.

For example, in today's NY Post, Serby writes how Judge AND Jones are "ahead of schedule" compared to Parcells/Simms.

but on Nov 3:

"Except Daniel Jones blew it.

He made the mistakes he cannot stop making, mistakes that make you wonder whether he is who the Giants believed he was"


Like another poster said, they pander to the fans.

And many here but it hook, line, and sinker.
i love the timing on this quote ...  
Spider56 : 11/20/2020 8:22 am : link
But please let’s not get political ...just the quote.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: all  
dslayton86 : 11/20/2020 8:24 am : link
In comment 15051859 Scuzzlebutt said:
Quote:
In comment 15051822 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


of that is possible, even likely, but Lombardi has almost no credibility when it comes to the Giants.



+1... I don’t think Lombardi knows anything, but he would love to start a narrative about tension between Judge and Garrett.

I'm all for it as well!! This would be best case scenario of the Colombo fallout if it means Garrett is gone after this year. Our OC job would be yearned after with this team's stock pointing up and our weapons (especially if we draft or sign a big WR). I am all for it especially if we can attract a young forward thinking mind.

I will say Garrett has been much better than the first half of the season almost to the point where I'm shocked at how solid is play calling has been. But end of the day I don't trust him especially in a big game.
RE: RE: RE: It’s pretty easy to say the Giants suck, when they suck.  
ron mexico : 11/20/2020 8:32 am : link
In comment 15051928 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 15051880 ron mexico said:


Quote:


In comment 15051869 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


You can never be wrong when the results back up your take.

Nailing down why they suck is more subjective.

Nailing down the route to get better is even more subjective.

But again, it’s super easy to be right when the results, something everybody can obviously see, are always there to back up your opinion.

It’s easy to be negative and shit on everybody.



This is such a shit take. It’s not not go Terps and others flipped a coin and decided on negativity. We analyzed the situation and came out what ended up as an accurate prediction.

How many times do DG and Mara have to eventually admit what we have been saying on here for you to realize some people might actually know a thing or two about football and the giants?



You analyzed the situation?

What have Mara and Gettleman “admitted to” that backs up/confirms anything you’ve said?


For one that they misjudged the team in 2018

Yes I analyze the team. Dont we all here? We all look at the team and say what we think is going on. Some are better than others at it.
What did your analysis say about Daniel Jones?  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2020 8:42 am : link
What did your analysis say about Dave Gettleman being able to build an offensive line or turn the team around?

Because, Jones is improving, and the team, slowly but surely, is turning around?

What did your analysis say about Leonard Williams?

Two and a half years later, these things are starting to fall in place. Did you preach patience? Or did you want to burn it down again last year?

RE: RE: RE: all  
section125 : 11/20/2020 8:42 am : link
In comment 15051935 dslayton86 said:
Quote:

I will say Garrett has been much better than the first half of the season almost to the point where I'm shocked at how solid is play calling has been. But end of the day I don't trust him especially in a big game.


I admit I wanted Garrett as OC. I also admit I think his play calling has been boring.
But, he cannot call plays if he doesn't have the players to make those calls. If you are seeing improved play calling recently, maybe it has to do with the fact that the line is finally playing better. Gallman is running better and Shepard is back getting open and making good downfield blocks. I am pretty certain that Garrett develops the game plan, talks it over with Judge and they implement it. I'm sure if Judge wanted a more wide open offense he would have Garrett try to implement it. So I think Garrett kept it simple based on what players he had and what he could expect from the oline.
RE: What did your analysis say about Daniel Jones?  
LBH15 : 11/20/2020 8:49 am : link
In comment 15051951 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
What did your analysis say about Dave Gettleman being able to build an offensive line or turn the team around?

Because, Jones is improving, and the team, slowly but surely, is turning around?

What did your analysis say about Leonard Williams?

Two and a half years later, these things are starting to fall in place. Did you preach patience? Or did you want to burn it down again last year?


Not burn it to the ground. Just replace the cook.
Dare I say  
bigbluehoya : 11/20/2020 8:49 am : link
I think Garrett has actually done a decent job considering the low level of talent going in, plus immediate loss of Barkley.

I think many under-appreciate how limited his playbook had to be early in the year bewteen the lack of preseason and poor early play from the OL.

As the season has gone on, I think he's done a nice job of adding to it. I generally think his play-calling / adjustments relative to game flow are pretty solid.

I really don't have any issues with him thus far. My one consistent gripe being that I want Jones' legs to be featured more. But we're seeing them expand it slowly but surely, now that DJ has shown that it's not just helpful for moving the chains, but he can get to the second level in a hurry and make explosive plays.
RE: I just listened to a Lombardi interview when Judge was hired.  
ColHowPepper : 11/20/2020 8:54 am : link
In comment 15051877 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
...It is pretty simple, the Giants have sucked so he just criticizes everything about them without truly knowing what is happening inside the building. They're an easy target. He also said that McDaniels wasn't an option for us because we wouldn't adapt to what the Pats would do yet that is exactly what has happened so far with Judge. Hell, Gettleman came in and revamped everything. Why wouldn't Mars allow him to do that? Mara always lets his coaches/GM run things the way they deem fit. It is a lot of hypocritical comments by him hence why I can't take anything he says serious. His fall back is always that he wrote a book on leadership. Big fucking deal.
robbie, I know the bold is not the main thrust here, much of which I agree with, but I'm scratching my head on DG revamping everything? Unless that's a sarcasm to make a point, I would not agree--but would agree that there are limits on what he can do purely because of Maras.
RE: RE: What did your analysis say about Daniel Jones?  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2020 8:58 am : link
In comment 15051957 LBH15 said:
Quote:
In comment 15051951 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


What did your analysis say about Dave Gettleman being able to build an offensive line or turn the team around?

Because, Jones is improving, and the team, slowly but surely, is turning around?

What did your analysis say about Leonard Williams?

Two and a half years later, these things are starting to fall in place. Did you preach patience? Or did you want to burn it down again last year?




Not burn it to the ground. Just replace the cook.


Which also would have been premature should the team turn the corner before the end of season three, which was generally agreed upon as the timeline to see improvement and make a fair decision.

Every single move the guy has made has been met with massive pushback here.
RE: Dare I say  
LBH15 : 11/20/2020 9:01 am : link
In comment 15051958 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
I think Garrett has actually done a decent job considering the low level of talent going in, plus immediate loss of Barkley.

I think many under-appreciate how limited his playbook had to be early in the year bewteen the lack of preseason and poor early play from the OL.

As the season has gone on, I think he's done a nice job of adding to it. I generally think his play-calling / adjustments relative to game flow are pretty solid.

I really don't have any issues with him thus far. My one consistent gripe being that I want Jones' legs to be featured more. But we're seeing them expand it slowly but surely, now that DJ has shown that it's not just helpful for moving the chains, but he can get to the second level in a hurry and make explosive plays.


I am not sure what to think of Garrett yet as an OC. Absolutely not happy with offensive production but that is clearly more pinned on the lack of talent the front office has put on the field.

But if Garrett's hands are on the OL playing better, Jones not turning the ball over as of late and a more reliable running game then my hats off to him.

If he gets the Tight Ends more involved and can somehow get this team to navigate a few screens to take the pressure of the offensive tackles a bit more, he should get a bonus.
Garrett’s scheme is okay, but where he really shines is his feel and  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/20/2020 9:03 am : link
ability as a play caller. He showed this knack in Dallas and the reason he had to give up the play sheet wasn’t performance, but because he was another one of those coaches that lost focus of everything else going on with his face buried in it
RE: Without defending JJ  
HomerJones45 : 11/20/2020 9:03 am : link
In comment 15051927 Bill2 said:
Quote:
There is nothing to tell to Columbo until Gugeliemo has inked a contract.

That would be true in almost every situation except in off-season when it would right to let Columbo plan ahead. Until then he had a contract and might have accepted help.

It could have even looked to the NFL that he had influence over Gugeliemo has his assistant. He could have asked Judge to play it that way.

"Mark wanted to continue rapid progress by pulling in a consultant to help out."

Not hard to think beyond the moment if you are Columbo but he went to his angry hot take routine and now he is where he is.

Lets see if the Giants get better.

Usually, what gets watched, gets done
Interesting take. So, your supervisor decides you need "help", contacts (with the team's approval) a former associate who does the exact same job you do, never mentions a word to you about this possibility, where this person fits in the hierarchy, what this means for your prospects in the organization, the division of responsibilities, reporting responsibilities, etc and you are overjoyed to welcome this person when word reaches you second hand that this is a done deal. Check.

It seems that of the possible paths to handle this situation, the path chosen was probably the worst.

I know some of you think He can do no wrong, but this was not handled very well at all, and a steamed reaction was certainly predictable given the path chosen.
RE: RE: I just listened to a Lombardi interview when Judge was hired.  
section125 : 11/20/2020 9:04 am : link
In comment 15051961 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
In comment 15051877 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


...It is pretty simple, the Giants have sucked so he just criticizes everything about them without truly knowing what is happening inside the building. They're an easy target. He also said that McDaniels wasn't an option for us because we wouldn't adapt to what the Pats would do yet that is exactly what has happened so far with Judge. Hell, Gettleman came in and revamped everything. Why wouldn't Mars allow him to do that? Mara always lets his coaches/GM run things the way they deem fit. It is a lot of hypocritical comments by him hence why I can't take anything he says serious. His fall back is always that he wrote a book on leadership. Big fucking deal.

robbie, I know the bold is not the main thrust here, much of which I agree with, but I'm scratching my head on DG revamping everything? Unless that's a sarcasm to make a point, I would not agree--but would agree that there are limits on what he can do purely because of Maras.


I think the only thing Mara limited DG in doing is what was done with Eli. DG pretty much started blowing up the team as soon as he got here. Once it was clear Eli had nothing, he went to Jones.
DG made an awful lot of mistakes on FAs early and some draft picks, but those happen. If DG takes input from the HC on his personnel decisions, maybe some of the mistakes were on Shurmur as much as DG. But it sure seems that since Judge arrived the players signed/draft seem a lot better.
RE: RE: Without defending JJ  
Spider56 : 11/20/2020 9:07 am : link
In comment 15051971 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 15051927 Bill2 said:


Quote:


There is nothing to tell to Columbo until Gugeliemo has inked a contract.

That would be true in almost every situation except in off-season when it would right to let Columbo plan ahead. Until then he had a contract and might have accepted help.

It could have even looked to the NFL that he had influence over Gugeliemo has his assistant. He could have asked Judge to play it that way.

"Mark wanted to continue rapid progress by pulling in a consultant to help out."

Not hard to think beyond the moment if you are Columbo but he went to his angry hot take routine and now he is where he is.

Lets see if the Giants get better.

Usually, what gets watched, gets done


Interesting take. So, your supervisor decides you need "help", contacts (with the team's approval) a former associate who does the exact same job you do, never mentions a word to you about this possibility, where this person fits in the hierarchy, what this means for your prospects in the organization, the division of responsibilities, reporting responsibilities, etc and you are overjoyed to welcome this person when word reaches you second hand that this is a done deal. Check.

It seems that of the possible paths to handle this situation, the path chosen was probably the worst.

I know some of you think He can do no wrong, but this was not handled very well at all, and a steamed reaction was certainly predictable given the path chosen.


Kudos ... your negativity is getting more articulate.
On the subject of posters patting themselves on the back  
ColHowPepper : 11/20/2020 9:09 am : link
helped along by their acolytes, yes, GT has been more right than wrong on major steps or non-steps by the organization. But he completely lost me with DJ. He has averred that he has been correct on DJ, accountability for the record and the team's losses and the late game stumbles, errors of judgment and execution, all the while downplaying the much discussed headwinds DJ has faced and faces, as if decreeing that DJ shall drag the team to wins.

Hell, even as reasonable and balanced a poster as UConn trashed DJ when he and the team were in that terrible stretch of late game failures. But being partially correct in assessing Jones' play does not excuse, in my judgment, ripping the player, his potential upside, his clear skills, as well as the team for sticking with him. GT and others have not been balanced for fair in trashing his entire body of work in effect charging him with being singlehandedly responsible for the team's record.
RE: RE: RE: What did your analysis say about Daniel Jones?  
LBH15 : 11/20/2020 9:10 am : link
In comment 15051965 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 15051957 LBH15 said:


Quote:


In comment 15051951 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


What did your analysis say about Dave Gettleman being able to build an offensive line or turn the team around?

Because, Jones is improving, and the team, slowly but surely, is turning around?

What did your analysis say about Leonard Williams?

Two and a half years later, these things are starting to fall in place. Did you preach patience? Or did you want to burn it down again last year?




Not burn it to the ground. Just replace the cook.



Which also would have been premature should the team turn the corner before the end of season three, which was generally agreed upon as the timeline to see improvement and make a fair decision.

Every single move the guy has made has been met with massive pushback here.


DG's time here has not been good. And that's based on the roster on the field and the lack of wins in the standings. Nothing more is even needed to be analyzed whether you like him or not. DG's myriad of player transactions for 3 years has still left the roster yearning for talent at almost every position on the field sans Defensive Tackle.

Averaging 4 wins per year....how could they not shown some improvement, particularly with the draft slot he has been given and maintained and a head coach that seems to look the part.

He got his 3rd year...but the critique is not premature.

At all.
RE: It’s pretty easy to say the Giants suck, when they suck.  
PatersonPlank : 11/20/2020 9:10 am : link
In comment 15051869 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
You can never be wrong when the results back up your take.

Nailing down why they suck is more subjective.

Nailing down the route to get better is even more subjective.

But again, it’s super easy to be right when the results, something everybody can obviously see, are always there to back up your opinion.

It’s easy to be negative and shit on everybody.


Exactly. Plus its never 100% bad, there are positives even if its only 25%. When I hear a person, anyone, just continually saying only negatives I know there is an agenda.
RE: RE: Without defending JJ  
NYRiese : 11/20/2020 9:13 am : link
In comment 15051971 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 15051927 Bill2 said:


Quote:


There is nothing to tell to Columbo until Gugeliemo has inked a contract.

That would be true in almost every situation except in off-season when it would right to let Columbo plan ahead. Until then he had a contract and might have accepted help.

It could have even looked to the NFL that he had influence over Gugeliemo has his assistant. He could have asked Judge to play it that way.

"Mark wanted to continue rapid progress by pulling in a consultant to help out."

Not hard to think beyond the moment if you are Columbo but he went to his angry hot take routine and now he is where he is.

Lets see if the Giants get better.

Usually, what gets watched, gets done


Interesting take. So, your supervisor decides you need "help", contacts (with the team's approval) a former associate who does the exact same job you do, never mentions a word to you about this possibility, where this person fits in the hierarchy, what this means for your prospects in the organization, the division of responsibilities, reporting responsibilities, etc and you are overjoyed to welcome this person when word reaches you second hand that this is a done deal. Check.

It seems that of the possible paths to handle this situation, the path chosen was probably the worst.

I know some of you think He can do no wrong, but this was not handled very well at all, and a steamed reaction was certainly predictable given the path chosen.

Maybe it was a managerial test on Colombo's stability.
CHP - how goes it?  
UConn4523 : 11/20/2020 9:16 am : link
how's Stamford these days?

DJ's bad stretch was pretty bad but I think we are seeing 2 things. 1. the Line is now playing better which makes his life easier and 2. he's taking sacks that he'd normally fumble or try to throw downfield, resulting in a TO.

He's got all the physical tools and I really like his ability to "forget the bad play". I never subscribed to the idea that he should be benched, made no sense then or now. He needed all of 2020, and the coaches need as much info on him as possible heading into this offseason.

The arrow is pointing up and while I don't expect him to be flawless he's got to string together a bunch of games like last week for me to feel good about him heading into the 2021 season. Lots of mediocre or bad defenses left on the schedule, so the opportunity is there.
RE: RE: Without defending JJ  
Dnew15 : 11/20/2020 9:22 am : link
In comment 15051971 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 15051927 Bill2 said:


Quote:


There is nothing to tell to Columbo until Gugeliemo has inked a contract.

That would be true in almost every situation except in off-season when it would right to let Columbo plan ahead. Until then he had a contract and might have accepted help.

It could have even looked to the NFL that he had influence over Gugeliemo has his assistant. He could have asked Judge to play it that way.

"Mark wanted to continue rapid progress by pulling in a consultant to help out."

Not hard to think beyond the moment if you are Columbo but he went to his angry hot take routine and now he is where he is.

Lets see if the Giants get better.

Usually, what gets watched, gets done


Interesting take. So, your supervisor decides you need "help", contacts (with the team's approval) a former associate who does the exact same job you do, never mentions a word to you about this possibility, where this person fits in the hierarchy, what this means for your prospects in the organization, the division of responsibilities, reporting responsibilities, etc and you are overjoyed to welcome this person when word reaches you second hand that this is a done deal. Check.

It seems that of the possible paths to handle this situation, the path chosen was probably the worst.

I know some of you think He can do no wrong, but this was not handled very well at all, and a steamed reaction was certainly predictable given the path chosen.


It's not a good sign when your supervisor has to come and do your job b/c your not getting the results...then when the supervisor gets involved - the results get better.

Columbo should have seen this comin.
RE: What did your analysis say about Daniel Jones?  
ron mexico : 11/20/2020 9:24 am : link
In comment 15051951 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
What did your analysis say about Dave Gettleman being able to build an offensive line or turn the team around?

Because, Jones is improving, and the team, slowly but surely, is turning around?

What did your analysis say about Leonard Williams?

Two and a half years later, these things are starting to fall in place. Did you preach patience? Or did you want to burn it down again last year?


I was on the Jones bandwagon pretty early on. I don’t follow NCAA or do the draftnik thing, so I reserved judgement on draft day.

But this year has raised more questions than provided answers with regards to Jones. One complete game does not make a franchise QB

The LW trade is still a bad trade. If he walks after this year, then what was the point? And the right move might be to let LW get mega bucks elsewhere and sign Tomlinson to a more reasonable contract.

It’s way to early to say the OL has been rebuilt or that the team is surely on the way up. We could still very easily end up with 4 or 5 wins.



as for Judge  
UConn4523 : 11/20/2020 9:26 am : link
its possible that he could have handled it better, its also possible that we don't know how it went down. Seems weird to be definitive on this one - the accounts of what happened differ depending on the report.
Too much meta discussion  
JB_in_DC : 11/20/2020 9:27 am : link
on this thread I think is distracting from the most interesting possible takeaways to consider: whether we can expect Garrett to be here next year.

The best comp for Judge as HC is probably Flores in Miami. This past offseason Flores showed he's not afraid to make significant changes to his staff: new OC, new DC, new OL/QB/OLB/assistant DBs coaches were brought on. Judge bringing in Gug leads us to think he's cut from a similar cloth. Dolphins season last year was considered by all to be a success based on their preseason expectations. 0-16 was a talked about possible outcome. So even if Giants finish strong and offense shows improvements its certainly a possibility Garrett is out if Judge - like with the OL Coach - wants to bring in his own guy.

Some interesting quotes from an article on the Dolphins changes this offseason:

Quote:
If a potential assistant coach were interviewing with Flores for a job, what would be the one or two things that he values the most?

“Being able to teach and communicate,” Flores said. “Which in a lot of ways go hand in hand. So teach the players and communicate with the coaches.”

And those are really the key reasons why the Dolphins have officially hired veteran offensive coordinator Chan Gailey, offensive line coach Steve Marshall, quarterbacks coach Robby Brown, outside linebackers coach Austin Clark and assistant defensive backs coach Curt Kuntz and promoted Josh Boyer to defensive coordinator.

Miami Dolphins coach Brian Flores opens up about coaching staff shakeup - ( New Window )
Judge handled this like an inexperienced manager  
PatersonPlank : 11/20/2020 9:32 am : link
HE should have told Colombo upfront what he was going to do, there is no defending that. However, Colombo should have handled it differently too. Rather than blowing up and telling him off, a conversation about why he wanted to do this and an attempt to make it work, would have been the mature thing to do.

I have been on both sides of this coin and have managed a lot of people. There are problems here on both sides. The thing I feel pretty sure about is that Judge's mistake is a "rookie" mistake and he can correct it. Colombo's mistake is a personality thing, and likely has always been his mode of operation. Some people blow up like this and some handle things better. You need to know who you are dealing with.

For example Garrett seems to have a much more mature attitude. I bet if this were done to him (and Jerry Jones did), he wouldn't like it any more than Colombo, but the outcome would have been 180 degrees different.
RE: Too much meta discussion  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2020 9:33 am : link
In comment 15052000 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
on this thread I think is distracting from the most interesting possible takeaways to consider: whether we can expect Garrett to be here next year.

The best comp for Judge as HC is probably Flores in Miami. This past offseason Flores showed he's not afraid to make significant changes to his staff: new OC, new DC, new OL/QB/OLB/assistant DBs coaches were brought on. Judge bringing in Gug leads us to think he's cut from a similar cloth. Dolphins season last year was considered by all to be a success based on their preseason expectations. 0-16 was a talked about possible outcome. So even if Giants finish strong and offense shows improvements its certainly a possibility Garrett is out if Judge - like with the OL Coach - wants to bring in his own guy.

Some interesting quotes from an article on the Dolphins changes this offseason:



Quote:


If a potential assistant coach were interviewing with Flores for a job, what would be the one or two things that he values the most?

“Being able to teach and communicate,” Flores said. “Which in a lot of ways go hand in hand. So teach the players and communicate with the coaches.”

And those are really the key reasons why the Dolphins have officially hired veteran offensive coordinator Chan Gailey, offensive line coach Steve Marshall, quarterbacks coach Robby Brown, outside linebackers coach Austin Clark and assistant defensive backs coach Curt Kuntz and promoted Josh Boyer to defensive coordinator.

Miami Dolphins coach Brian Flores opens up about coaching staff shakeup - ( New Window )


Again, why are people so sure Garrett wasn’t who Judge wanted? He was possibly the best coordinator available.
Judge is the opposite of Coughlin.  
darktimes : 11/20/2020 9:34 am : link
Coughlin held on to coaches with a sense of loyalty for way too long. Judge will hopefully get rid of coaches that don't perform.

I'm not a Garrett fan by any means, but he's been calling better plays. I wouldn't be surprised if he was let go in the off season and I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed.
RE: Does anybody really think the Giants hired Judge to turn the team  
Section331 : 11/20/2020 9:35 am : link
In comment 15051898 Spider56 said:
Quote:
around, and then told him who to hire as his OC? Who would have been a better option? It is logical though that JG pushed for Colombo as the OL coach, so the key question to me is not when Judge told Marc, it’s did JJ first discuss the changes with JG so he wasn’t blindsided. Hopefully JG knows the Duge and has a good rapport with him.


It is very possible. It is how the Giants have operated for decades. Often it worked, lately it hasn't. The Mara's have always put their foot on hiring processes, whether it's the GM, HC, or assistants.

Look, there was a lot of logic bringing in Garrett as OC, a guy with ample HC experience to work with a newbie. But you don't find it the least bit curious that Judge decided to hire the one guy the Mara's have fawned over for years?
There are a lot of Giants podcasts to listen to  
arniefez : 11/20/2020 9:36 am : link
This weeks Talkin' Giants with Bobby Skinner is a very interesting listen.

You could make a case that one of the best things that could happen in this off season is some dumb owner hiring Jason Garrett as his HC. If that doesn't happen I hope Judge has enough authority to make a change at OC.
You guys also have to remember that limited camp...  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2020 9:37 am : link
and no preseason means this offense is being installed as it goes. Have we even seen the whole playbook yet? Doubtful.
I think both Garrett and Judge have done excellent jobs  
PatersonPlank : 11/20/2020 9:37 am : link
and Judge will be lucky to keep them around
RE: Maybe he's a hack and a hot take artist  
Eric on Li : 11/20/2020 9:38 am : link
In comment 15051861 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It doesn't change the fact that he's been right about what the Giants are for years now. Every criticism has borne out to be accurate, while posters here were busy for years whitewashing generally accepted truths about drafting RBs high, calling Beckham a first ballot HOFer, promising Eli revenge tours, and saying more wildly inaccurate shit for which there is no repercussion on this board.

I don't care if Lombardi is an actual clown with a red nose and a wig - he's been right about this team for years.

Sometimes I feel like there's this parallel universe where the Giants have been something other than a steaming pile of shit for these last 8 years.


Just to name 2 things he was dead wrong about in 2019 he spent the entire lead up to the draft claiming the Giants didn't like any of the QBs and were still rolling with Eli. And last offseason he spent 2 months saying Rhule wouldn't consider the Giants, it turns out as he was having a dialogue directly with Mara behind the scenes.

In both cases he used his supposed "insider info" to drive his hot take that the Giants organization is broken. I don't agree with that opinion though I do think it's an acceptable. What is hackish is inventing BS to support it that turns out to be wrong and carrying on with the charade like nothing happened.
It's a topic for another thread..  
Dnew15 : 11/20/2020 9:38 am : link
but I don't get the Jason Garrett hate ... he's done a good job with the pieces he has to work with - IMO.
RE: RE: RE: RE: What did your analysis say about Daniel Jones?  
section125 : 11/20/2020 9:38 am : link
In comment 15051975 LBH15 said:
Quote:

DG's time here has not been good. And that's based on the roster on the field and the lack of wins in the standings. Nothing more is even needed to be analyzed whether you like him or not. DG's myriad of player transactions for 3 years has still left the roster yearning for talent at almost every position on the field sans Defensive Tackle.

Averaging 4 wins per year....how could they not shown some improvement, particularly with the draft slot he has been given and maintained and a head coach that seems to look the part.

He got his 3rd year...but the critique is not premature.

At all.


So you are an all or nothing person? Were some of his FA choices bad? - absolutely. But were many of them good? probably.
Were some of the draft choices bad - yep(not unusual). But were many of then good? yep
Did he get rid of some pretty divisive/disruptive players - no question.

Funny how the quality of the players brought in improved when Judge was hired. Funny how players that remained from previous years improved when the coaching got better - or do you not see that.

I am not a DG apologist, but I am also not a hater and blind to everything but the negative. Was he the best choice at the time? Who knows - I do know that BBI fav boy Dorsey was let go by the Browns in 1 year.
RE: I just listened to a Lombardi interview when Judge was hired.  
Eric on Li : 11/20/2020 9:40 am : link
In comment 15051877 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
He said the Giants are stuck in this old school mentality of George Young when he said players play, coaches coach, and scouts scout. WTF is he talking about? How does he have his finger on the pulse of the Giants? He said it is all about collaboration and the Giants need to adapt. Holy shit, he has no clue.

That was the problem with the Giants. For the longest time when asked who makes the picks in the draft Mara would always say it is a collaborative effort. That is why there was such hostility over whether to fire Coughlin or Reese. People kill Gettleman all the time for the players he brings in but it is clear as day Shurmur and Judge had a huge influence on the players brought in.

Lombardi doesn't know shit. He said the Pats use their grading system which came from George Young but it has been altered. Then he says the Giants haven't adapted yet admits he doesn't have that knowledge within the organization.

It is pretty simple, the Giants have sucked so he just criticizes everything about them without truly knowing what is happening inside the building. They're an easy target. He also said that McDaniels wasn't an option for us because we wouldn't adapt to what the Pats would do yet that is exactly what has happened so far with Judge. Hell, Gettleman came in and revamped everything. Why wouldn't Mars allow him to do that? Mara always lets his coaches/GM run things the way they deem fit. It is a lot of hypocritical comments by him hence why I can't take anything he says serious. His fall back is always that he wrote a book on leadership. Big fucking deal.


But if you read his book you too may be able to collaborate well enough to find the next Barkevious Mingo, Jimmy Garapolo, or Jamarcus Russell.
it would be somewhat shocking to me  
bigbluehoya : 11/20/2020 9:43 am : link
if they let Garrett go in the offseason.

Changing the system on Jones again makes little sense. That would make 3 different systems in 3 seasons.

If they were to draft a QB in round 1 and move on from Jones, all things should be on the table. But that was unlikely to begin with, and they seem to be on a path toward playing themselves out of prime QB draft position, if they haven't already.

I don't have a strong opinion on Garrett either way, but it's evident to me that Jones as the QB in a Garrett offense is all but a given for 2021.
RE: RE: Too much meta discussion  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/20/2020 9:44 am : link
In comment 15052006 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 15052000 JB_in_DC said:


Quote:


on this thread I think is distracting from the most interesting possible takeaways to consider: whether we can expect Garrett to be here next year.

The best comp for Judge as HC is probably Flores in Miami. This past offseason Flores showed he's not afraid to make significant changes to his staff: new OC, new DC, new OL/QB/OLB/assistant DBs coaches were brought on. Judge bringing in Gug leads us to think he's cut from a similar cloth. Dolphins season last year was considered by all to be a success based on their preseason expectations. 0-16 was a talked about possible outcome. So even if Giants finish strong and offense shows improvements its certainly a possibility Garrett is out if Judge - like with the OL Coach - wants to bring in his own guy.

Some interesting quotes from an article on the Dolphins changes this offseason:



Quote:


If a potential assistant coach were interviewing with Flores for a job, what would be the one or two things that he values the most?

“Being able to teach and communicate,” Flores said. “Which in a lot of ways go hand in hand. So teach the players and communicate with the coaches.”

And those are really the key reasons why the Dolphins have officially hired veteran offensive coordinator Chan Gailey, offensive line coach Steve Marshall, quarterbacks coach Robby Brown, outside linebackers coach Austin Clark and assistant defensive backs coach Curt Kuntz and promoted Josh Boyer to defensive coordinator.

Miami Dolphins coach Brian Flores opens up about coaching staff shakeup - ( New Window )



Again, why are people so sure Garrett wasn’t who Judge wanted? He was possibly the best coordinator available.


A lot of it boils down to people forcing the "Giants Way" narrative. Remember that Garrett was the sure-fire next HC for us?? When that didn't happen, he surely had to be a forced hire by Mara because he once was a backup QB here.

And if you repeat it enough, people start to believe it. It is really easy to have the pulse on the team when shit is made up to fit a narrative
Fuck Lombardi  
PaulN : 11/20/2020 9:45 am : link
Dave had injuries the second season, plus the Pats and Brady were Superbowl or bust, and the record shows he is abrasive and not a long term fix. We don't know with Jason, there are some improvements, but look at the drop in TD passes, its not all Garrett, but he can not get a complete pass, the good thing is the season is in front of us and there is time left for things to sort themselves out. Columbo said it himself, he said in Dallas you had an experienced group with Pro Bowlers, he only needed to manage reps, here teaching was a high priority, Judge said that from the beginning, and has not changed a bit.
Yeah ok,I'll cya around  
ghost718 : 11/20/2020 9:56 am : link
What a dickhead

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: What did your analysis say about Daniel Jones?  
LBH15 : 11/20/2020 10:28 am : link
In comment 15052016 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15051975 LBH15 said:


Quote:



DG's time here has not been good. And that's based on the roster on the field and the lack of wins in the standings. Nothing more is even needed to be analyzed whether you like him or not. DG's myriad of player transactions for 3 years has still left the roster yearning for talent at almost every position on the field sans Defensive Tackle.

Averaging 4 wins per year....how could they not shown some improvement, particularly with the draft slot he has been given and maintained and a head coach that seems to look the part.

He got his 3rd year...but the critique is not premature.

At all.



So you are an all or nothing person? Were some of his FA choices bad? - absolutely. But were many of them good? probably.
Were some of the draft choices bad - yep(not unusual). But were many of then good? yep
Did he get rid of some pretty divisive/disruptive players - no question.

Funny how the quality of the players brought in improved when Judge was hired. Funny how players that remained from previous years improved when the coaching got better - or do you not see that.

I am not a DG apologist, but I am also not a hater and blind to everything but the negative. Was he the best choice at the time? Who knows - I do know that BBI fav boy Dorsey was let go by the Browns in 1 year.


I have been very hard on DG with respect to the many, too many, errors he has made towards improving this team since Day 1. He hasn't done a credible job, and yes I prefer him to go walk away in the sunset, or Cape Cod I guess.

But in no way have I been all or nothing with him. I give him credit where credit is due.

2018 was a disaster in every way possible, no question. I don't even want to talk about any of it because it will only make me mad.

2019 was also bad in way too many aspects, but a few positive moves to him credit for including net roster additions he got in OBJ trade, and probably finding D. Slayton late in draft.

2020 he did really well in free agency with Bradberry, Martinez. The Logan Ryan signing is interesting as that seemed more desperation for the Secondary at the time than vision. Kind of same with Gano but at least we have them. I also give DG credit that he went all-in on the OL in the draft. But that is like a double-edged sword too because his crap OL moves led that to be a desperation draft strategy as well. Credit for seeing something in Gates though.

And I have posted about the above positives plenty. It doesn't change the fact that Cape Cod is calling for him imv.
RE: RE: RE: Too much meta discussion  
LBH15 : 11/20/2020 10:41 am : link
In comment 15052023 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15052006 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 15052000 JB_in_DC said:


Quote:


on this thread I think is distracting from the most interesting possible takeaways to consider: whether we can expect Garrett to be here next year.

The best comp for Judge as HC is probably Flores in Miami. This past offseason Flores showed he's not afraid to make significant changes to his staff: new OC, new DC, new OL/QB/OLB/assistant DBs coaches were brought on. Judge bringing in Gug leads us to think he's cut from a similar cloth. Dolphins season last year was considered by all to be a success based on their preseason expectations. 0-16 was a talked about possible outcome. So even if Giants finish strong and offense shows improvements its certainly a possibility Garrett is out if Judge - like with the OL Coach - wants to bring in his own guy.

Some interesting quotes from an article on the Dolphins changes this offseason:



Quote:


If a potential assistant coach were interviewing with Flores for a job, what would be the one or two things that he values the most?

“Being able to teach and communicate,” Flores said. “Which in a lot of ways go hand in hand. So teach the players and communicate with the coaches.”

And those are really the key reasons why the Dolphins have officially hired veteran offensive coordinator Chan Gailey, offensive line coach Steve Marshall, quarterbacks coach Robby Brown, outside linebackers coach Austin Clark and assistant defensive backs coach Curt Kuntz and promoted Josh Boyer to defensive coordinator.

Miami Dolphins coach Brian Flores opens up about coaching staff shakeup - ( New Window )



Again, why are people so sure Garrett wasn’t who Judge wanted? He was possibly the best coordinator available.



A lot of it boils down to people forcing the "Giants Way" narrative. Remember that Garrett was the sure-fire next HC for us?? When that didn't happen, he surely had to be a forced hire by Mara because he once was a backup QB here.

And if you repeat it enough, people start to believe it. It is really easy to have the pulse on the team when shit is made up to fit a narrative


While I don't think it needs your conspiracy theories, I agree with sentiment that Garrett was freely hired by Judge. He may have been recommended by others, but I think we have seen/heard enough from Judge thus far to be confident he isn't just an empty suit.

And exactly what is a  
LBH15 : 11/20/2020 10:42 am : link
"meta discussion"?
I had a similar experience to Colombo  
BestFeature : 11/20/2020 10:49 am : link
I was in over my head when I got a project management job that I had no experience for. I had another PM hired to "help me", she ended up taking over and they were going to terminate my contract. I didn't push back because I welcomed the help and knew I was in over my head. They ended up giving me a role I was a better fit for. That said Colombo is not some young PM that should never have been a PM. So I can see how he'd take exception.
RE: Judge handled this like an inexperienced manager  
trueblueinpw : 11/20/2020 10:52 am : link
In comment 15052005 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
HE should have told Colombo upfront what he was going to do, there is no defending that. However, Colombo should have handled it differently too. Rather than blowing up and telling him off, a conversation about why he wanted to do this and an attempt to make it work, would have been the mature thing to do.

I have been on both sides of this coin and have managed a lot of people. There are problems here on both sides. The thing I feel pretty sure about is that Judge's mistake is a "rookie" mistake and he can correct it. Colombo's mistake is a personality thing, and likely has always been his mode of operation. Some people blow up like this and some handle things better. You need to know who you are dealing with.

For example Garrett seems to have a much more mature attitude. I bet if this were done to him (and Jerry Jones did), he wouldn't like it any more than Colombo, but the outcome would have been 180 degrees different.


I agree with this assessment. Judge is gonna get some things wrong, he’s very young and inexperienced. I will say, it sure seems like he got rid of the right the guy, even if he bungled the play.

Lombardi is a bomb thrower. And he absolutely has some kind of hair across his ass for the Giants. But if you can deal with his ridiculousness, sometimes he has some interesting things to say.
where has it been reported credibly that Columbo heard secondhand?  
Eric on Li : 11/20/2020 11:06 am : link
I find it real hard to believe this was "done wrong" when it happened at the exact appropriate time to make any sort of staff change - when the team is at the beginning of it's 2 week bye.

Also obviously they spoke directly because isn't the salacious part of the story that they "had words"?

So the only question is whether Columbo heard second hand vs. directly from Judge? Is there any evidence of the former from a reputable source? Because here's some reporting indicating he heard directly.

Here's a link to Garafolo explaining what happened - he's been the most clued in to this entire story having reported Judge's OL involvement days before the firing - and his telling of the story is that Judge told Columbo directly, and objecting to Judge's decision, which led to the verbal altercation (and subsequent firing). Nothing about Columbo hearing second hand.
https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1329147856997986304? - ( New Window )
RE: where has it been reported credibly that Columbo heard secondhand?  
PatersonPlank : 11/20/2020 11:19 am : link
In comment 15052149 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
I find it real hard to believe this was "done wrong" when it happened at the exact appropriate time to make any sort of staff change - when the team is at the beginning of it's 2 week bye.

Also obviously they spoke directly because isn't the salacious part of the story that they "had words"?

So the only question is whether Columbo heard second hand vs. directly from Judge? Is there any evidence of the former from a reputable source? Because here's some reporting indicating he heard directly.

Here's a link to Garafolo explaining what happened - he's been the most clued in to this entire story having reported Judge's OL involvement days before the firing - and his telling of the story is that Judge told Columbo directly, and objecting to Judge's decision, which led to the verbal altercation (and subsequent firing). Nothing about Columbo hearing second hand. https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1329147856997986304? - ( New Window )


Its been posted a few times here and on twitter. Here is one from Peppers in the Colombo thread:

"
Peppers : 11/19/2020 6:20 am : link : reply
What I've heard..

1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.

2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
"
There are some amazing uninformed opinions  
djm : 11/20/2020 11:32 am : link
being thrown around. Judge handled this immaturely? Really now.

What should judge have done? Not fire the guy even though he wanted to?

This is unfounded gossip. He fired him. Whether he handled things incorrectly doesn’t even matter anymore. He wanted a new guy brought in and apparently Colombo went nuts. Who cares about the timing of everything? Irrelevant.
RE: RE: where has it been reported credibly that Columbo heard secondhand?  
djm : 11/20/2020 11:34 am : link
In comment 15052170 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 15052149 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


I find it real hard to believe this was "done wrong" when it happened at the exact appropriate time to make any sort of staff change - when the team is at the beginning of it's 2 week bye.

Also obviously they spoke directly because isn't the salacious part of the story that they "had words"?

So the only question is whether Columbo heard second hand vs. directly from Judge? Is there any evidence of the former from a reputable source? Because here's some reporting indicating he heard directly.

Here's a link to Garafolo explaining what happened - he's been the most clued in to this entire story having reported Judge's OL involvement days before the firing - and his telling of the story is that Judge told Columbo directly, and objecting to Judge's decision, which led to the verbal altercation (and subsequent firing). Nothing about Columbo hearing second hand. https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1329147856997986304? - ( New Window )



Its been posted a few times here and on twitter. Here is one from Peppers in the Colombo thread:

"
Peppers : 11/19/2020 6:20 am : link : reply
What I've heard..

1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.

2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
"


This is gossip. We don’t know this to be true with all due respect.
RE: I think both Garrett and Judge have done excellent jobs  
bw in dc : 11/20/2020 11:48 am : link
In comment 15052013 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
and Judge will be lucky to keep them around


I think Garrett called a great game versus Tampa (Jones was just awful), and seems to be finding his stride a bit more lately, but "excellent" seems a little excessive. And I have no problem bringing him back...

The star of Judge's staff is Graham. He's really manufactured some effective schemes to overcome talent issues. We really have no high level, reliable pass rusher. Yet, we are 7th in the league in sacks and fairly high in pressures. That's a real testament to Graham...
Paterson isn't that a little thin to go on?  
Eric on Li : 11/20/2020 11:50 am : link
I'm not fully aware of Peppers track record and not denying that he may be legitimate, but that's a pretty nebulous and speculative detail - knowing how/when Columbo found out and attributing that to the source of his anger to something other than Deguglielmo getting hired. In fact that would seem like a detail you could only get from Columbo, which would bring the motivation of the source of the comment into question since he's likely in damage control mode. I remember we had an asshat who had connections to Columbo before he was officially hired, if that was Peppers I think we can feel pretty comfortable guessing which side of the story we are hearing.

Taking a step back from the he said/she said let's think about the facts logicially - Columbo was so pissed about something he was willing to lose his job. Does it make any sense that Columbo would have been fine with DeGuglielmo but chose to give up his job and embarrassingly get fired because he'd heard it through the grapevine first?

Also another thing that makes little sense - Deguglielmo wasn't going to just show up and start coaching players secretly. Columbo and the rest of the coaches were going to be told. If Columbo's performance was the root issue here, what entitlement did he have to be the first to know about whatever his manager's performance plans were to fix it? Anyone who has managed teams can tell you that if someone is not performing to the point where you need to take action it is completely normal to have conversations about that plan with other people in their chain of command before talking to them 1 on 1. So the grapevine thing IMO is irrelevant on all levels. It would have been completely appropriate for Judge to have had conversations with Garrett and anyone else he trusts before making this decision. And those conversations should have happened before a finalized plan was communicated to Columbo. So if Columbo heard it from someone other than Judge first that's the person who may have messed up. Though if it was Garrett who delivered the news that may have also been completely appropriate since he is Columbo's direct boss.

Net-net this strikes me as a "if the facts are against you, attack the process" damage control story if it's even real info in the first place.
RE: Paterson isn't that a little thin to go on?  
PatersonPlank : 11/20/2020 11:55 am : link
In comment 15052214 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
I'm not fully aware of Peppers track record and not denying that he may be legitimate, but that's a pretty nebulous and speculative detail - knowing how/when Columbo found out and attributing that to the source of his anger to something other than Deguglielmo getting hired. In fact that would seem like a detail you could only get from Columbo, which would bring the motivation of the source of the comment into question since he's likely in damage control mode. I remember we had an asshat who had connections to Columbo before he was officially hired, if that was Peppers I think we can feel pretty comfortable guessing which side of the story we are hearing.

Taking a step back from the he said/she said let's think about the facts logicially - Columbo was so pissed about something he was willing to lose his job. Does it make any sense that Columbo would have been fine with DeGuglielmo but chose to give up his job and embarrassingly get fired because he'd heard it through the grapevine first?

Also another thing that makes little sense - Deguglielmo wasn't going to just show up and start coaching players secretly. Columbo and the rest of the coaches were going to be told. If Columbo's performance was the root issue here, what entitlement did he have to be the first to know about whatever his manager's performance plans were to fix it? Anyone who has managed teams can tell you that if someone is not performing to the point where you need to take action it is completely normal to have conversations about that plan with other people in their chain of command before talking to them 1 on 1. So the grapevine thing IMO is irrelevant on all levels. It would have been completely appropriate for Judge to have had conversations with Garrett and anyone else he trusts before making this decision. And those conversations should have happened before a finalized plan was communicated to Columbo. So if Columbo heard it from someone other than Judge first that's the person who may have messed up. Though if it was Garrett who delivered the news that may have also been completely appropriate since he is Columbo's direct boss.

Net-net this strikes me as a "if the facts are against you, attack the process" damage control story if it's even real info in the first place.


I've seen it other places too, but I'm not going to bother looking. If you're interested you can find them. I just took it upon myself to answer your question and provide one instance. I guess in reality you can dismiss this, or if you wanted you can take this as the fact and dismiss the other view. Just like in anything else (politics for instance) you are free to choose. To me this makes a lot of sense based on the reaction from Colombo but what do I know. However its not something I just made up
I didn't say you made it up I'd asked if anyone credible had reported  
Eric on Li : 11/20/2020 12:00 pm : link
on it specifically because the most credible sources (Garafolo and the beats) haven't mentioned it. At least in what I've seen.

You are correct that it's like any other subject and we can all believe whatever we choose to. Especially in light of the BS about the physical altercation this seems like a perfect example of why it's typically best to stick to the most credible sources possible - which is why I asked.
RE: I didn't say you made it up I'd asked if anyone credible had reported  
PatersonPlank : 11/20/2020 12:19 pm : link
In comment 15052222 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
on it specifically because the most credible sources (Garafolo and the beats) haven't mentioned it. At least in what I've seen.

You are correct that it's like any other subject and we can all believe whatever we choose to. Especially in light of the BS about the physical altercation this seems like a perfect example of why it's typically best to stick to the most credible sources possible - which is why I asked.


Fair enough. I wasn't trying to be confrontational, I was really just talking about something I have a lot of experience with (both positive and negative). Anyway whats done is done and who knows. I just hope things continue to trend in the right direction for the OL.
RE: RE: RE: Without defending JJ  
Reale01 : 11/20/2020 12:22 pm : link
In comment 15051973 Spider56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15051971 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


In comment 15051927 Bill2 said:


Quote:


There is nothing to tell to Columbo until Gugeliemo has inked a contract.

That would be true in almost every situation except in off-season when it would right to let Columbo plan ahead. Until then he had a contract and might have accepted help.

It could have even looked to the NFL that he had influence over Gugeliemo has his assistant. He could have asked Judge to play it that way.

"Mark wanted to continue rapid progress by pulling in a consultant to help out."

Not hard to think beyond the moment if you are Columbo but he went to his angry hot take routine and now he is where he is.

Lets see if the Giants get better.

Usually, what gets watched, gets done


Interesting take. So, your supervisor decides you need "help", contacts (with the team's approval) a former associate who does the exact same job you do, never mentions a word to you about this possibility, where this person fits in the hierarchy, what this means for your prospects in the organization, the division of responsibilities, reporting responsibilities, etc and you are overjoyed to welcome this person when word reaches you second hand that this is a done deal. Check.

It seems that of the possible paths to handle this situation, the path chosen was probably the worst.

I know some of you think He can do no wrong, but this was not handled very well at all, and a steamed reaction was certainly predictable given the path chosen.



Kudos ... your negativity is getting more articulate.


If I was thinking of bringing in a consultant I would take the following steps:
1. Call the consultant to share thoughts
2. If we are on the same page then I would ask to see if they are interested in consulting
THEN
3. Talk to the person they would work with (Columbo) to explain the thinking
4. Arrange a 3-way call to discuss logistics
5. Bring the consultant in.

Seems like the shit hit the fan on step three or four. Not sure I blame JJ it 1 and 2 happened without Columbo in the loop.
and to share thought
RE: RE: Maybe he's a hack and a hot take artist  
Semipro Lineman : 11/20/2020 12:24 pm : link


Go Terps
Quote:
It doesn't change the fact that he's been right about what the Giants are for years now. Every criticism has borne out to be accurate...

I don't care if Lombardi is an actual clown with a red nose and a wig - he's been right about this team for years.


DieHard -
Quote:
Just because Lombardi agrees with your takes (which also happen to be the takes of a lot of BBIers) doesn't mean he has some special insight or access behind the scenes with the Giants, which was what the original point was.


I have to agree with DieHard about this. To be polite, this is the same nonsense that BigBlueCane used to pull before his implosion regarding how brilliant any media person who had a similar viewpoint to his was and that we were crybabies for pointing out the obvious attempts to pass off speculation as actual inside information or just blatant shit-stirring.

If Judge felt compelled to make a change...  
bw in dc : 11/20/2020 12:27 pm : link
I think we all agree that's his call.

And if it's remotely true that Colombo either got verbally abusive, or even physically abuse, he needed to be fired on that spot.

The three issues up for debate are:

1. Did Judge handle this correctly?
2. Is it understandable for Colombo to be upset finding out indirectly from another source?
3. Is DeGuglielmo an upgrade?


I and 2 are mildly interesting. But 3 is very interesting to me. DD is a very mixed bag; and just because he was part of the Pats Central doesn't mean he has the goods for this job...
RE: If Judge felt compelled to make a change...  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/20/2020 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15052240 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I think we all agree that's his call.

And if it's remotely true that Colombo either got verbally abusive, or even physically abuse, he needed to be fired on that spot.

The three issues up for debate are:

1. Did Judge handle this correctly?
2. Is it understandable for Colombo to be upset finding out indirectly from another source?
3. Is DeGuglielmo an upgrade?


I and 2 are mildly interesting. But 3 is very interesting to me. DD is a very mixed bag; and just because he was part of the Pats Central doesn't mean he has the goods for this job...


DD is a well regarded offensive line coach. He's a bit rough around the edges and probably why you see him bouncing around the league. These coaches spend so much time together that is definitely part of the equation. I know you love to harp on him getting tossed for Dante, but Josh McDaniels thought well of him and was the first guy he had a chance to hire that ended up staying with the Colts. Reich (the real mastermind behind the Eagles success) wanted to bring in his own guy, but vouched for DD with recommendations. Based on what we know about his personality probaly a blessing in disguise Colombo blew up, because with those two it was only a matter of time before shit lit off.
RE: If Judge felt compelled to make a change...  
Eric on Li : 11/20/2020 12:43 pm : link
In comment 15052240 bw in dc said:
Quote:

1. Did Judge handle this correctly?
2. Is it understandable for Colombo to be upset finding out indirectly from another source?
3. Is DeGuglielmo an upgrade?


All of these questions will be answered by how the OL performs on the field the rest of the year and given the reporting that the recent improvement was linked to Judge getting more involved makes me trust that the moves he's making are steps in the right direction.

How Columbo found out is 99.9% unimportant to me. Unless Judge handled it so badly he violated a legitimate policy or there's some rebellion in the building (neither of which have been seemingly alleged).
RE: RE: RE: Maybe he's a hack and a hot take artist  
Go Terps : 11/20/2020 1:41 pm : link
In comment 15052236 Semipro Lineman said:
Quote:


Go Terps

Quote:


It doesn't change the fact that he's been right about what the Giants are for years now. Every criticism has borne out to be accurate...

I don't care if Lombardi is an actual clown with a red nose and a wig - he's been right about this team for years.



DieHard -

Quote:


Just because Lombardi agrees with your takes (which also happen to be the takes of a lot of BBIers) doesn't mean he has some special insight or access behind the scenes with the Giants, which was what the original point was.




I have to agree with DieHard about this. To be polite, this is the same nonsense that BigBlueCane used to pull before his implosion regarding how brilliant any media person who had a similar viewpoint to his was and that we were crybabies for pointing out the obvious attempts to pass off speculation as actual inside information or just blatant shit-stirring.


I'm not saying Lombardi has any special or unusual insight regarding the Giants...I'm just saying that he's been right in his criticisms of them these past few years. But because he's been critical, he's called a hack. You see the same BS thrown at beat writers, podcasters, TV talking heads...anyone who's been critical as if the Giants haven't been the worst team in the NFL for the past 3 years.

12-30. It has taken nearly 3 full seasons for the Giants to win the amount of games that would equal 1 good season.

Criticism of this organization is not subjective negativity; it is objective observation.

Now I'm as optimistic about what we're seeing as anyone else, but my optimism stems from my feeling that the blind squirrel has found a nut in Joe Judge. I think he's fantastic...but that's not going to make me forget the incompetence of the people in the front office. This is still a talent-poor roster that Judge is turning into chicken salad.
I'd disagree this is a talent poor roster.  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/20/2020 1:54 pm : link
We are very deep along the DL as well as secondary, although we have a glaring hole at 2nd corner. The offensive line seems to be fairly deep now as well, just light in top talent. That's actually a recurring theme, the roster as a whole is just missing some key top pieces. DG is filling out the roster so we don't have massive needs come draft time. One exception is edge, but those guys don't hit FA and thankfully he hasn't forced the pick. Unfortunately, another poor year up top, but doubt we walk away from next years draft without an edge/wr/2nd corner in the first two rounds depending on value. I actually expect us to be aggressive with our second round pick depending on how things shake.

We are missing our best player. Saquon has to be licking his chops based on what he is seeing and he's such an unreal human I wouldn't be surprise to see the 2000 yard back next year we drafted him to be. The future of this team is bright with 1 more good draft class. Who knows what FA will bring with the cap and what not, but DG arguable had the best FA class in the NFL last year for dollar to dollar spend. Makes up for his abysmal 2018 and now that's in the rearview.
Go Terps - even if you think his criticisms valid (which is fair)  
Eric on Li : 11/20/2020 2:00 pm : link
do you not see where he comes off as a hack with the inaccurate things he's reported about the team?

The headline of this exact thread ("Judge wanted DeGuglielmo from the beginning") being case in point where he is portraying a fact that apparently only he has, while every other time he's done so in recent years re NYG he's been wrong?
RE: RE: If Judge felt compelled to make a change...  
bw in dc : 11/20/2020 2:32 pm : link
In comment 15052257 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:


DD is a well regarded offensive line coach. He's a bit rough around the edges and probably why you see him bouncing around the league. These coaches spend so much time together that is definitely part of the equation. I know you love to harp on him getting tossed for Dante, but Josh McDaniels thought well of him and was the first guy he had a chance to hire that ended up staying with the Colts. Reich (the real mastermind behind the Eagles success) wanted to bring in his own guy, but vouched for DD with recommendations. Based on what we know about his personality probaly a blessing in disguise Colombo blew up, because with those two it was only a matter of time before shit lit off.


At the end of the day, I'm basically agnostic on DD to replace Colombo. But it is a mixed bag. Some favorable - as you mentioned - and some unfavorable. I'm just trying to ask reasonable questions about his abilities. I think there is a healthy dose of skepticism to consider here.

BTW, trust me, you didn't have to add the parenthetical comments after Reich's name. It's implied... ;)
RE: RE: If Judge felt compelled to make a change...  
bw in dc : 11/20/2020 2:35 pm : link
In comment 15052258 Eric on Li said:
Quote:

All of these questions will be answered by how the OL performs on the field the rest of the year and given the reporting that the recent improvement was linked to Judge getting more involved makes me trust that the moves he's making are steps in the right direction.


I wonder how much Judeg's involvement was technique and/or moving around pieces to get better combinations.

No one knows how  
section125 : 11/20/2020 2:43 pm : link
well DeGuglielmo will do with this line. But apparently Judge was not happy with what Colombo was doing. So given that both coaches were in the original interview process, it stands to reason that both were well thought of. I have no doubt that because of his work with Garrett in Dallas, Colombo was chosen because of Garrett.
I will say one thing about Judge's choices for coaches, they seem to be pretty damn good. If he misses on one, or the personalities don't mix then it is time to change. I doubt we ever really find the reason. Perhaps it is over Thomas' development or lack there of. Whatever it is, the change was made and Judge is comfortable with the change. I also think that if this does not work out, there will be another change in January.
Implosion?  
BigBlueCane : 11/20/2020 3:23 pm : link
LOL

Carrying around and applying past history  
Bill2 : 11/20/2020 5:18 pm : link
To current and future analysis is recency bias and always will be.

Declaring it an objective fact based analysis of today and tomorrow fools no one no matter how often and loudly its repeated.

All opinion on the same level as anyone else's.

Opinions are great. Lets not fool ourselves it reaches more than that.

Huge parts of the past and current fact base behind decisions we will never know.

What Do You Think of This?  
Samiam : 11/20/2020 7:47 pm : link
I wonder if firing Colombo in mid season speaks to Judge’s belief that the team is a serious contender for the division and the playoffs. If they were in a rebuilding modem especially given the OL improvement over the past few weeks, it would have made sense to leave Colombo to finish the year and then replace him. That is unless Judge was afraid someone else would have signed DeG which to me seems unlikely. Now, it’s possible that Colombo was publicly insubordinate. But, if Judge had issues with his performance, and you think the6 have a real chance to make the playoffs, then bring in the best guy you can find and get rid of the problem assistant.
RE: What Do You Think of This?  
Mad Mike : 11/20/2020 8:25 pm : link
In comment 15052641 Samiam said:
Quote:
I wonder if firing Colombo in mid season speaks to Judge’s belief that the team is a serious contender for the division and the playoffs. If they were in a rebuilding modem especially given the OL improvement over the past few weeks, it would have made sense to leave Colombo to finish the year and then replace him. That is unless Judge was afraid someone else would have signed DeG which to me seems unlikely. Now, it’s possible that Colombo was publicly insubordinate. But, if Judge had issues with his performance, and you think the6 have a real chance to make the playoffs, then bring in the best guy you can find and get rid of the problem assistant.

I think you're really overthinking it. We have a number of young OL, some of whom in which the team invested premium draft picks. Poor coaching can really impede their development and set the team back. If you have issues with the guy coaching them to the point where Judge is stepping in to directly overrule Columbo's coaching, you make a change regardless of whether or not you expect to make a real run.
Mike Lombardi.  
BelieveJJ : 11/20/2020 11:38 pm : link
LOL.

On BBI he's often confused with Matt Lombardo.

The easy way to recall the difference between them is the "i" at the end of Lombardi.

As in I,I,I,I,I,I,...

What a tool this guy is and as Eric noted above, not at ALL connnected into the Giants.
RE: CHP - how goes it?  
ColHowPepper : 11/21/2020 11:34 am : link
In comment 15051982 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
how's Stamford these days?

DJ's bad stretch was pretty bad but I think we are seeing 2 things. 1. the Line is now playing better which makes his life easier and 2. he's taking sacks that he'd normally fumble or try to throw downfield, resulting in a TO.

He's got all the physical tools and I really like his ability to "forget the bad play". I never subscribed to the idea that he should be benched, made no sense then or now. He needed all of 2020, and the coaches need as much info on him as possible heading into this offseason.

The arrow is pointing up and while I don't expect him to be flawless he's got to string together a bunch of games like last week for me to feel good about him heading into the 2021 season. Lots of mediocre or bad defenses left on the schedule, so the opportunity is there.
UConn, I can get behind all of that!! He's had his ugly moments, for sure, cringe worthy, but sheesh some folks put them in a vacuum as if he's a Soprano performing solo and effing things up all on his own.

The other aspect of his progression that I don't think is discussed enough (at all?) is that different individuals progress/learn/absorb and begin to synthesize at different rates: it's legion across the NFL at all positions (Webster, being a notable one) that it comes together more, or less, quickly. Was Eli so fast out of the gate, with a better team around him?

Stamford: Are you still in the area? I haven't been there much--not so many trips into Manhattan (ha!), Fairway is gone (miss that place), movies are out, Tigin's Irish Pub is a no-can-do, haven't been to any restaurants anywhere to eat inside save one (Bacio's in Cross River). WTF? ):

How about you? How is the wife, kid (more than one now)? From what it sounds like you're still have your gig, that's a big thumbs up. All best to you
Same for me on Stamford  
UConn4523 : 11/21/2020 12:16 pm : link
I’m up in Milford now but will be going to my parents house in Stamford for thanksgiving.

Family is going good, how about you? My only kid (no more on the way, haha) is 5, kindergarten going well all things considered but it’s likely going to be fully from home soon. Job/s are good, actually starting a new gig on 11/30 - fully remote and a better technology (staying in construction). Fingers cross in making the right move.
RE: Same for me on Stamford  
ColHowPepper : 11/21/2020 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15052994 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I’m up in Milford now but will be going to my parents house in Stamford for thanksgiving.

Family is going good, how about you? My only kid (no more on the way, haha) is 5, kindergarten going well all things considered but it’s likely going to be fully from home soon. Job/s are good, actually starting a new gig on 11/30 - fully remote and a better technology (staying in construction). Fingers cross in making the right move.
Up by New Haven, closer to CT 34 than I95 (maybe a wrong question)?

You've done your diligence, trust your gut. Are management folks you can respect and trust to do right? The most imp question. BOL however you play, but sounds like a done deal.
Sooner or later this pandemic will be behind us. Lord willing. It's good that your kid is having this year at such a young age, much better than at adolescence or near adolescence, in my view.

We've been same for years: my wife has been teaching yoga, but much has become remote or, as long as temps hold, outdoors. Her second studio has a potential exposure, so she is 'quarantining', but as between her and me it's kind of lame because we were living normally in the five days post-exposure and the day she found out there might be an issue. She was tested yesterday, fingers crossed. I've been doing my officiating thing: considering I was reluctant to do anything in this environment--and officials in our NYS Section 1 are mandated to wear masks--I had a shorter-than-normal but ok season: not at my best, physically/mentally. Last spring's lax season was canceled outright, I'll see what comes down the pike. Daughter (one child also) last year law school in White Plains, env. program, she's doing well, and thank Lord she has what seems to be a stable relationship. All things considered, we're grateful.
That’s good to hear  
UConn4523 : 11/21/2020 2:26 pm : link
glad you guys are doing well. Hoping you guys get through all the COVID crap ok (health and business wise).

We are right up the line off 95 now, actually live down by the beach. Staying close to the water and 95 was a big thing for us. Sadly they just shut down kids athletics until mid-late January. Was trying to get my kid into indoor climbing over the winter and then back to soccer in the spring - I think Soccer will happen but not sure about anything indoors.

I feel good about the job. Much stronger leadership at the new company along with better pay And fully remote. It was somewhat of a no brainer but still hard to leave the hard work I put into the current start up company. All good though, need to take risks every once in a while.
Wishing you the best  
ColHowPepper : 11/21/2020 3:11 pm : link
on all fronts. Thanks for your notes.

I guess you're somewhere near the Long Wharf Theater area? Never been there myself, but friends say there's some good quality that is produced there. All virtual has got to be a dream, I foresee no drop off in your posting frequency! LOL

Didn't know your littl'un is into footy. During my conditioning this summer before HS finally started (6 week delay), there was this little piker, he must have been about the age of yours, couldn't have been >7, but he was working with a youngish (early 30s?), dedicated trainer, hours at a time, intense foot work L and R, various touches inside and outside, but not at all overbearing. Really good demeanor on the trainer, and I could see the strides the kid was making, square contact, returning 'serve' on the ground and in the air. Good stuff!
Pat Hanlon on Twitter about 20 minutes ago.....  
Britt in VA : 11/21/2020 3:59 pm : link
Quote:
I know I’m a little late to the party on this one, but I keep seeing @mlombardiNFL pop up with people attributing some kind of insightful commentary on us. Just to be clear, @mlombardiNFL has no idea what goes on in our building. —30–
RE: Pat Hanlon on Twitter about 20 minutes ago.....  
bw in dc : 11/21/2020 4:19 pm : link
In comment 15053170 Britt in VA said:
Quote:


Quote:


I know I’m a little late to the party on this one, but I keep seeing @mlombardiNFL pop up with people attributing some kind of insightful commentary on us. Just to be clear, @mlombardiNFL has no idea what goes on in our building. —30–



I'm certain Hanlon is being neutral.
I’m certain you are as well in your posting....  
Britt in VA : 11/21/2020 4:36 pm : link
.
RE: What Do You Think of This?  
ron mexico : 11/21/2020 4:41 pm : link
In comment 15052641 Samiam said:
Quote:
I wonder if firing Colombo in mid season speaks to Judge’s belief that the team is a serious contender for the division and the playoffs. If they were in a rebuilding modem especially given the OL improvement over the past few weeks, it would have made sense to leave Colombo to finish the year and then replace him. That is unless Judge was afraid someone else would have signed DeG which to me seems unlikely. Now, it’s possible that Colombo was publicly insubordinate. But, if Judge had issues with his performance, and you think the6 have a real chance to make the playoffs, then bring in the best guy you can find and get rid of the problem assistant.


I’m pretty sure his firing is due nearly entirely to calling his boss a cunt
RE: RE: Pat Hanlon on Twitter about 20 minutes ago.....  
section125 : 11/21/2020 4:41 pm : link
In comment 15053183 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15053170 Britt in VA said:


Quote:




Quote:


I know I’m a little late to the party on this one, but I keep seeing @mlombardiNFL pop up with people attributing some kind of insightful commentary on us. Just to be clear, @mlombardiNFL has no idea what goes on in our building. —30–





I'm certain Hanlon is being neutral.


Does Lombardi know what happened or did he speculate? Not sure he's neutral either.
The idea that Judge sat back and looked at the NFCE standings  
LBH15 : 11/21/2020 4:44 pm : link
before deciding what to do with Colombo is comical.

RE: RE: Pat Hanlon on Twitter about 20 minutes ago.....  
LBH15 : 11/21/2020 4:49 pm : link
In comment 15053183 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15053170 Britt in VA said:


Quote:




Quote:


I know I’m a little late to the party on this one, but I keep seeing @mlombardiNFL pop up with people attributing some kind of insightful commentary on us. Just to be clear, @mlombardiNFL has no idea what goes on in our building. —30–





I'm certain Hanlon is being neutral.


I don’t think a lot of people in the building know what goes on in the building.
RE: Pat Hanlon on Twitter about 20 minutes ago.....  
PatersonPlank : 11/21/2020 4:57 pm : link
In comment 15053170 Britt in VA said:
Quote:


Quote:


I know I’m a little late to the party on this one, but I keep seeing @mlombardiNFL pop up with people attributing some kind of insightful commentary on us. Just to be clear, @mlombardiNFL has no idea what goes on in our building. —30–



I think this is a riot. Hanlon smacking down idiot Lombardi
RE: RE: RE: Pat Hanlon on Twitter about 20 minutes ago.....  
bw in dc : 11/21/2020 5:07 pm : link
In comment 15053196 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15053183 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15053170 Britt in VA said:


Quote:




Quote:


I know I’m a little late to the party on this one, but I keep seeing @mlombardiNFL pop up with people attributing some kind of insightful commentary on us. Just to be clear, @mlombardiNFL has no idea what goes on in our building. —30–





I'm certain Hanlon is being neutral.



Does Lombardi know what happened or did he speculate? Not sure he's neutral either.


I think he toggles between speculation and info he gets from sources. IMV, he is usually spot on with how the front office operates and the Mara history.

He obviously touches a nerve around here because his opinions are so aggressive. And he's not willing to say Jints Central is Xanadu.
RE: RE: Pat Hanlon on Twitter about 20 minutes ago.....  
BigBlueShock : 11/21/2020 5:13 pm : link
In comment 15053183 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15053170 Britt in VA said:


Quote:




Quote:


I know I’m a little late to the party on this one, but I keep seeing @mlombardiNFL pop up with people attributing some kind of insightful commentary on us. Just to be clear, @mlombardiNFL has no idea what goes on in our building. —30–





I'm certain Hanlon is being neutral.

Why would Hanlon need to be “neutral” to say what he said? He works for the Giants you nitwit. If some clown spreads inaccurate bullshit that they have no clue about they should be called out.

Duh...  
bw in dc : 11/21/2020 5:19 pm : link
That's the point.

Hanlon is going to tow the company line, especially when the team is getting criticized. So his response is expected.

So posting it as some 'Aha, take that Lombardi!' is silly.
RE: Duh...  
BigBlueShock : 11/21/2020 5:40 pm : link
In comment 15053221 bw in dc said:
Quote:
That's the point.

Hanlon is going to tow the company line, especially when the team is getting criticized. So his response is expected.

So posting it as some 'Aha, take that Lombardi!' is silly.

Ok, so if someone that is actually inside the building and KNOWS what happened isn’t allowed to set the record straight, who is? Nobody? We just believe anything Lombardi says because random message board poster bw in dc thinks he’s awesome because he constantly criticizes “Jints Central”? Absolutely absurd.

Lombardi was actually pro Judge here..  
Sean : 11/21/2020 5:53 pm : link
The guy to go after would be Mike Silver based on his comments yesterday.
BBS  
UConn4523 : 11/21/2020 6:22 pm : link
yup, don’t get it.
Colombo was hired mid season in 2018 by Dallas  
Sean : 11/21/2020 6:38 pm : link
Just to add how overblown this story is. Jason Garrett fired OL coach Paul Alexander midseason in 2018 and replaced him with Colombo.

It really isn’t that big of a deal. If anyone should understand, it’s Colombo.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Duh...  
bw in dc : 11/21/2020 7:59 pm : link
In comment 15053243 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15053221 bw in dc said:


Quote:


That's the point.

Hanlon is going to tow the company line, especially when the team is getting criticized. So his response is expected.

So posting it as some 'Aha, take that Lombardi!' is silly.


Ok, so if someone that is actually inside the building and KNOWS what happened isn’t allowed to set the record straight, who is? Nobody? We just believe anything Lombardi says because random message board poster bw in dc thinks he’s awesome because he constantly criticizes “Jints Central”? Absolutely absurd.


I don't care if Hanlon is in the building. He's a PR/Spin guy. He's never going to say anything that makes the organization look bad. Or substantiate something that does.

And he shouldn't because that's his job. So to think he's going to confirm anything a lightening rod person like Lombardi says is pretty laughable.

But if you want to think Hanlon is speaking some unvarnished, neutral truth than you are more naive than I thought...
RE: RE: RE: Duh...  
chopperhatch : 11/21/2020 8:23 pm : link
In comment 15053332 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15053243 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 15053221 bw in dc said:


Quote:


That's the point.

Hanlon is going to tow the company line, especially when the team is getting criticized. So his response is expected.

So posting it as some 'Aha, take that Lombardi!' is silly.


Ok, so if someone that is actually inside the building and KNOWS what happened isn’t allowed to set the record straight, who is? Nobody? We just believe anything Lombardi says because random message board poster bw in dc thinks he’s awesome because he constantly criticizes “Jints Central”? Absolutely absurd.




I don't care if Hanlon is in the building. He's a PR/Spin guy. He's never going to say anything that makes the organization look bad. Or substantiate something that does.

And he shouldn't because that's his job. So to think he's going to confirm anything a lightening rod person like Lombardi says is pretty laughable.

But if you want to think Hanlon is speaking some unvarnished, neutral truth than you are more naive than I thought...


I dont think anybody is saying Hanlon isnt going to be guarded when talking about the incident. But I also dont think he wpuld flat out lie about it if Judge acted unfairly because players and other staff hear that, and talk off the record. Conversely, you are touting the story of a reporter who has been exhorbitantly reporting negative things about everything the team does, while refusing to report anything positive they do when several other media have all said something different about what happened.

Don't ever change bw.
The fact one side is taking the self serving Lombardi  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/21/2020 8:46 pm : link
seriously, while lambasting Pat for being PR machine and the other side is taking the team fluky at his word is so parallel to politics this thread should be banned.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Duh...  
bw in dc : 11/21/2020 9:03 pm : link
In comment 15053345 chopperhatch said:
Quote:

I dont think anybody is saying Hanlon isnt going to be guarded when talking about the incident. But I also dont think he wpuld flat out lie about it if Judge acted unfairly because players and other staff hear that, and talk off the record. Conversely, you are touting the story of a reporter who has been exhorbitantly reporting negative things about everything the team does, while refusing to report anything positive they do when several other media have all said something different about what happened.

Don't ever change bw.


I think we need to set something straight here.

I'm more than fine with Judge dismissing Colombo and replacing him with DD. Colombo got what he deserved on so many levels - verbally abusing Judge, ignoring direct orders, public confrontation (practice), etc.

Did you read what Sean wrote in his opening of this thread? Where he cites what Lombardi contends? Are ANY of those unreasonable conclusions?

I mean, it's not like Lombardi said Judge hired Colombo to keep him away from Dallas in some diabolical scheme to hurt a division rival...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Duh...  
chopperhatch : 11/21/2020 9:43 pm : link
In comment 15053365 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15053345 chopperhatch said:


Quote:



I dont think anybody is saying Hanlon isnt going to be guarded when talking about the incident. But I also dont think he wpuld flat out lie about it if Judge acted unfairly because players and other staff hear that, and talk off the record. Conversely, you are touting the story of a reporter who has been exhorbitantly reporting negative things about everything the team does, while refusing to report anything positive they do when several other media have all said something different about what happened.

Don't ever change bw.



I think we need to set something straight here.

I'm more than fine with Judge dismissing Colombo and replacing him with DD. Colombo got what he deserved on so many levels - verbally abusing Judge, ignoring direct orders, public confrontation (practice), etc.

Did you read what Sean wrote in his opening of this thread? Where he cites what Lombardi contends? Are ANY of those unreasonable conclusions?

I mean, it's not like Lombardi said Judge hired Colombo to keep him away from Dallas in some diabolical scheme to hurt a division rival...


I did read it. It says to me that Judge listened to Garrett' and took on Columbo to fascilitate a cohesive transition to JG's offense. It was apparent that it wasnt working very well and Judge made changes. Seeing as how it is his job to manage the team, its on him to adjust, but it is unacceptable for a subordinate to engage a head coach (whether loud or not) where others witness it. Just a fact in every facet of life. I remember it being put up with and seeing success ONCE and that was Ditka/Ryan with the '85 Bears
RE: The fact one side is taking the self serving Lombardi  
ron mexico : 11/22/2020 7:04 am : link
In comment 15053356 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
seriously, while lambasting Pat for being PR machine and the other side is taking the team fluky at his word is so parallel to politics this thread should be banned.


Did pat give an alternative set of events? Or even say Lombardi is wrong?

People aren’t even discussing facts anymore. It’s a personality/affiliation debate.
RE: RE: The fact one side is taking the self serving Lombardi  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/22/2020 7:51 am : link
In comment 15053456 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 15053356 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


seriously, while lambasting Pat for being PR machine and the other side is taking the team fluky at his word is so parallel to politics this thread should be banned.



Did pat give an alternative set of events? Or even say Lombardi is wrong?

People aren’t even discussing facts anymore. It’s a personality/affiliation debate.


What facts? Is there concrete evidence of events here? No. What we have is one guy that has an ax to grind with organization because of some shit that went down in the past, and the other that is the mouthpiece of the organization. In what world do you not infer that pat isn't saying Lombardi is full of shit with that statement. I'm sorry but you absolutely do need to consider the source when there arent concrete facts.
Seriously.  
Britt in VA : 11/22/2020 8:14 am : link
.
It’s not like Pat goes out of his way everyday to single out....  
Britt in VA : 11/22/2020 8:17 am : link
journalists that are full of shit by calling them out directly.
And it's not everyday that the Giants fire a coach.  
LBH15 : 11/22/2020 8:48 am : link
Just feels that way.
Here’s the Lombardi response  
Sean : 11/22/2020 9:08 am : link
Quote:
A team that is 15-44 since 2017 is mad about my comments, seriously? I love that their listening and thank you.

Link - ( New Window )
Here is what Sean wrote...  
bw in dc : 11/22/2020 9:09 am : link
in his opening that Lombardi said:

Quote:

-Judge wanted DeGuglielmo, he wanted as many NE coaches as possible
-Once Garrett was hired, Garrett banged the drum for Colombo and the Judge complied
-What Colombo was doing was not at all what NE teaches with regards to the OL. Couldn’t be any different.
-Judge is not afraid of confrontation, when he sees a problem he’s going to face it head on and look to fix it.
-Colombo wasn’t having it, and he’s out. Judge wanted DeGuglielmo anyway.


What in that list doesn’t seem plausible?

Judge did want DD but he finished runner-up in the initial hire.
Many of us believe Garrett did push for Colombo due to his connection in Dallas.
By reports outside of Lombardi Colombo was absolutely teaching technique that didn’t jive with Judge’s view. See the Gates story.
Based on what we know about Judge, is anyone seriously surprised that Lombardi said Judge isn’t afraid of confrontation??
And then that Colombo was basically not going to respect the coaching rank and fight back if he thought he was right...

Gee, what outrageous comments by Lombardi.
RE: Here’s the Lombardi response  
BigBlueShock : 11/22/2020 9:17 am : link
In comment 15053510 Sean said:
Quote:


Quote:


A team that is 15-44 since 2017 is mad about my comments, seriously? I love that their listening and thank you.

Link - ( New Window )

This is exactly why Lombardi is a hack and cannot be taken seriously. Wtf does the Giants recent record have to do with this current situation? Absolutely nothing. Yet, he will never miss an opportunity to bring it up.

Oh, and it’s “they’re”, not “their”, Lombardi.
bw..  
Sean : 11/22/2020 9:22 am : link
That’s what I find strange. Lombardi was actually pro Judge in the recent podcast. He put all the blame on Colombo. He’s been very critical of the Giants obviously, it’s just strange this is what generated the reaction.
People aren’t reacting to what Lombardi said in this case only,  
Britt in VA : 11/22/2020 9:29 am : link
they are reacting to his whole body of work, and who they do and don’t take seriously.
RE: bw..  
BigBlueShock : 11/22/2020 9:35 am : link
In comment 15053524 Sean said:
Quote:
That’s what I find strange. Lombardi was actually pro Judge in the recent podcast. He put all the blame on Colombo. He’s been very critical of the Giants obviously, it’s just strange this is what generated the reaction.

What am I missing? I don’t see very many posters criticizing this particular podcast at all on this thread. It’s been more about Lombardi in general.
Anyone listening to the FAN this morning?  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/22/2020 9:44 am : link
Diehl had some unique insight and is a big fan of Guges. Based on what he said though Colombo did us a Giant favor, this was never going to work out and potentially could have gotten ugly down the line. Glad this all sorted itself out over the bye week. Maybe Judge planned all this to happen, the mad genius strikes again!
RE: Anyone listening to the FAN this morning?  
LBH15 : 11/22/2020 9:51 am : link
In comment 15053542 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
Diehl had some unique insight and is a big fan of Guges. Based on what he said though Colombo did us a Giant favor, this was never going to work out and potentially could have gotten ugly down the line. Glad this all sorted itself out over the bye week. Maybe Judge planned all this to happen, the mad genius strikes again!


whats the unique insight?
RE: Here is what Sean wrote...  
Eric on Li : 11/22/2020 10:36 am : link
In comment 15053511 bw in dc said:
Quote:
in his opening that Lombardi said:



Quote:



-Judge wanted DeGuglielmo, he wanted as many NE coaches as possible
-Once Garrett was hired, Garrett banged the drum for Colombo and the Judge complied
-What Colombo was doing was not at all what NE teaches with regards to the OL. Couldn’t be any different.
-Judge is not afraid of confrontation, when he sees a problem he’s going to face it head on and look to fix it.
-Colombo wasn’t having it, and he’s out. Judge wanted DeGuglielmo anyway.



What in that list doesn’t seem plausible?


That Lombardi has any sort of credible inside info. The rest of his "inside info" w/r/t the NYG the last few years was plausible too, until it was confirmed fiction.
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