I know Lombardi is polarizing here, but I absolutely loved listening to the beginning of today’s GM Shuffle podcast. I can’t imagine anyone here not being excited about Judge, just listen to the beginning of this podcast. Lombardi has plenty of Patriot connections.
-Judge wanted DeGuglielmo, he wanted as many NE coaches as possible
-Once Garrett was hired, Garrett banged the drum for Colombo and the Judge complied
-What Colombo was doing was not at all what NE teaches with regards to the OL. Couldn’t be any different.
-Judge is not afraid of confrontation, when he sees a problem he’s going to face it head on and look to fix it.
-Colombo wasn’t having it, and he’s out. Judge wanted DeGuglielmo anyway.
This will beg the question about Garrett and who pushed for him as OC. There is a Saban connection, but it’s clear Colombo was not a fit with Judge is building here.
I just love the leadership here from Judge, not many coaches would have approached this issue head on actually looking for a solution. It aligns exactly with his intro presser.
Podcast linked below, it’s the first topic discussed.
Link - (
New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
of that is possible, even likely, but Lombardi has almost no credibility when it comes to the Giants.
+1... I don’t think Lombardi knows anything, but he would love to start a narrative about tension between Judge and Garrett.
I'm all for it as well!! This would be best case scenario of the Colombo fallout if it means Garrett is gone after this year. Our OC job would be yearned after with this team's stock pointing up and our weapons (especially if we draft or sign a big WR). I am all for it especially if we can attract a young forward thinking mind.
I will say Garrett has been much better than the first half of the season almost to the point where I'm shocked at how solid is play calling has been. But end of the day I don't trust him especially in a big game.
Quote:
In comment 15051869 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
You can never be wrong when the results back up your take.
Nailing down why they suck is more subjective.
Nailing down the route to get better is even more subjective.
But again, it’s super easy to be right when the results, something everybody can obviously see, are always there to back up your opinion.
It’s easy to be negative and shit on everybody.
This is such a shit take. It’s not not go Terps and others flipped a coin and decided on negativity. We analyzed the situation and came out what ended up as an accurate prediction.
How many times do DG and Mara have to eventually admit what we have been saying on here for you to realize some people might actually know a thing or two about football and the giants?
You analyzed the situation?
What have Mara and Gettleman “admitted to” that backs up/confirms anything you’ve said?
For one that they misjudged the team in 2018
Yes I analyze the team. Dont we all here? We all look at the team and say what we think is going on. Some are better than others at it.
Because, Jones is improving, and the team, slowly but surely, is turning around?
What did your analysis say about Leonard Williams?
Two and a half years later, these things are starting to fall in place. Did you preach patience? Or did you want to burn it down again last year?
I will say Garrett has been much better than the first half of the season almost to the point where I'm shocked at how solid is play calling has been. But end of the day I don't trust him especially in a big game.
I admit I wanted Garrett as OC. I also admit I think his play calling has been boring.
But, he cannot call plays if he doesn't have the players to make those calls. If you are seeing improved play calling recently, maybe it has to do with the fact that the line is finally playing better. Gallman is running better and Shepard is back getting open and making good downfield blocks. I am pretty certain that Garrett develops the game plan, talks it over with Judge and they implement it. I'm sure if Judge wanted a more wide open offense he would have Garrett try to implement it. So I think Garrett kept it simple based on what players he had and what he could expect from the oline.
Because, Jones is improving, and the team, slowly but surely, is turning around?
What did your analysis say about Leonard Williams?
Two and a half years later, these things are starting to fall in place. Did you preach patience? Or did you want to burn it down again last year?
Not burn it to the ground. Just replace the cook.
I think many under-appreciate how limited his playbook had to be early in the year bewteen the lack of preseason and poor early play from the OL.
As the season has gone on, I think he's done a nice job of adding to it. I generally think his play-calling / adjustments relative to game flow are pretty solid.
I really don't have any issues with him thus far. My one consistent gripe being that I want Jones' legs to be featured more. But we're seeing them expand it slowly but surely, now that DJ has shown that it's not just helpful for moving the chains, but he can get to the second level in a hurry and make explosive plays.
Quote:
What did your analysis say about Dave Gettleman being able to build an offensive line or turn the team around?
Because, Jones is improving, and the team, slowly but surely, is turning around?
What did your analysis say about Leonard Williams?
Two and a half years later, these things are starting to fall in place. Did you preach patience? Or did you want to burn it down again last year?
Not burn it to the ground. Just replace the cook.
Which also would have been premature should the team turn the corner before the end of season three, which was generally agreed upon as the timeline to see improvement and make a fair decision.
Every single move the guy has made has been met with massive pushback here.
I think many under-appreciate how limited his playbook had to be early in the year bewteen the lack of preseason and poor early play from the OL.
As the season has gone on, I think he's done a nice job of adding to it. I generally think his play-calling / adjustments relative to game flow are pretty solid.
I really don't have any issues with him thus far. My one consistent gripe being that I want Jones' legs to be featured more. But we're seeing them expand it slowly but surely, now that DJ has shown that it's not just helpful for moving the chains, but he can get to the second level in a hurry and make explosive plays.
I am not sure what to think of Garrett yet as an OC. Absolutely not happy with offensive production but that is clearly more pinned on the lack of talent the front office has put on the field.
But if Garrett's hands are on the OL playing better, Jones not turning the ball over as of late and a more reliable running game then my hats off to him.
If he gets the Tight Ends more involved and can somehow get this team to navigate a few screens to take the pressure of the offensive tackles a bit more, he should get a bonus.
That would be true in almost every situation except in off-season when it would right to let Columbo plan ahead. Until then he had a contract and might have accepted help.
It could have even looked to the NFL that he had influence over Gugeliemo has his assistant. He could have asked Judge to play it that way.
"Mark wanted to continue rapid progress by pulling in a consultant to help out."
Not hard to think beyond the moment if you are Columbo but he went to his angry hot take routine and now he is where he is.
Lets see if the Giants get better.
Usually, what gets watched, gets done
It seems that of the possible paths to handle this situation, the path chosen was probably the worst.
I know some of you think He can do no wrong, but this was not handled very well at all, and a steamed reaction was certainly predictable given the path chosen.
Quote:
...It is pretty simple, the Giants have sucked so he just criticizes everything about them without truly knowing what is happening inside the building. They're an easy target. He also said that McDaniels wasn't an option for us because we wouldn't adapt to what the Pats would do yet that is exactly what has happened so far with Judge. Hell, Gettleman came in and revamped everything. Why wouldn't Mars allow him to do that? Mara always lets his coaches/GM run things the way they deem fit. It is a lot of hypocritical comments by him hence why I can't take anything he says serious. His fall back is always that he wrote a book on leadership. Big fucking deal.
robbie, I know the bold is not the main thrust here, much of which I agree with, but I'm scratching my head on DG revamping everything? Unless that's a sarcasm to make a point, I would not agree--but would agree that there are limits on what he can do purely because of Maras.
I think the only thing Mara limited DG in doing is what was done with Eli. DG pretty much started blowing up the team as soon as he got here. Once it was clear Eli had nothing, he went to Jones.
DG made an awful lot of mistakes on FAs early and some draft picks, but those happen. If DG takes input from the HC on his personnel decisions, maybe some of the mistakes were on Shurmur as much as DG. But it sure seems that since Judge arrived the players signed/draft seem a lot better.
Quote:
There is nothing to tell to Columbo until Gugeliemo has inked a contract.
That would be true in almost every situation except in off-season when it would right to let Columbo plan ahead. Until then he had a contract and might have accepted help.
It could have even looked to the NFL that he had influence over Gugeliemo has his assistant. He could have asked Judge to play it that way.
"Mark wanted to continue rapid progress by pulling in a consultant to help out."
Not hard to think beyond the moment if you are Columbo but he went to his angry hot take routine and now he is where he is.
Lets see if the Giants get better.
Usually, what gets watched, gets done
Interesting take. So, your supervisor decides you need "help", contacts (with the team's approval) a former associate who does the exact same job you do, never mentions a word to you about this possibility, where this person fits in the hierarchy, what this means for your prospects in the organization, the division of responsibilities, reporting responsibilities, etc and you are overjoyed to welcome this person when word reaches you second hand that this is a done deal. Check.
It seems that of the possible paths to handle this situation, the path chosen was probably the worst.
I know some of you think He can do no wrong, but this was not handled very well at all, and a steamed reaction was certainly predictable given the path chosen.
Kudos ... your negativity is getting more articulate.
Hell, even as reasonable and balanced a poster as UConn trashed DJ when he and the team were in that terrible stretch of late game failures. But being partially correct in assessing Jones' play does not excuse, in my judgment, ripping the player, his potential upside, his clear skills, as well as the team for sticking with him. GT and others have not been balanced for fair in trashing his entire body of work in effect charging him with being singlehandedly responsible for the team's record.
Quote:
In comment 15051951 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
What did your analysis say about Dave Gettleman being able to build an offensive line or turn the team around?
Because, Jones is improving, and the team, slowly but surely, is turning around?
What did your analysis say about Leonard Williams?
Two and a half years later, these things are starting to fall in place. Did you preach patience? Or did you want to burn it down again last year?
Not burn it to the ground. Just replace the cook.
Which also would have been premature should the team turn the corner before the end of season three, which was generally agreed upon as the timeline to see improvement and make a fair decision.
Every single move the guy has made has been met with massive pushback here.
DG's time here has not been good. And that's based on the roster on the field and the lack of wins in the standings. Nothing more is even needed to be analyzed whether you like him or not. DG's myriad of player transactions for 3 years has still left the roster yearning for talent at almost every position on the field sans Defensive Tackle.
Averaging 4 wins per year....how could they not shown some improvement, particularly with the draft slot he has been given and maintained and a head coach that seems to look the part.
He got his 3rd year...but the critique is not premature.
At all.
Nailing down why they suck is more subjective.
Nailing down the route to get better is even more subjective.
But again, it’s super easy to be right when the results, something everybody can obviously see, are always there to back up your opinion.
It’s easy to be negative and shit on everybody.
Exactly. Plus its never 100% bad, there are positives even if its only 25%. When I hear a person, anyone, just continually saying only negatives I know there is an agenda.
Quote:
There is nothing to tell to Columbo until Gugeliemo has inked a contract.
That would be true in almost every situation except in off-season when it would right to let Columbo plan ahead. Until then he had a contract and might have accepted help.
It could have even looked to the NFL that he had influence over Gugeliemo has his assistant. He could have asked Judge to play it that way.
"Mark wanted to continue rapid progress by pulling in a consultant to help out."
Not hard to think beyond the moment if you are Columbo but he went to his angry hot take routine and now he is where he is.
Lets see if the Giants get better.
Usually, what gets watched, gets done
Interesting take. So, your supervisor decides you need "help", contacts (with the team's approval) a former associate who does the exact same job you do, never mentions a word to you about this possibility, where this person fits in the hierarchy, what this means for your prospects in the organization, the division of responsibilities, reporting responsibilities, etc and you are overjoyed to welcome this person when word reaches you second hand that this is a done deal. Check.
It seems that of the possible paths to handle this situation, the path chosen was probably the worst.
I know some of you think He can do no wrong, but this was not handled very well at all, and a steamed reaction was certainly predictable given the path chosen.
Maybe it was a managerial test on Colombo's stability.
DJ's bad stretch was pretty bad but I think we are seeing 2 things. 1. the Line is now playing better which makes his life easier and 2. he's taking sacks that he'd normally fumble or try to throw downfield, resulting in a TO.
He's got all the physical tools and I really like his ability to "forget the bad play". I never subscribed to the idea that he should be benched, made no sense then or now. He needed all of 2020, and the coaches need as much info on him as possible heading into this offseason.
The arrow is pointing up and while I don't expect him to be flawless he's got to string together a bunch of games like last week for me to feel good about him heading into the 2021 season. Lots of mediocre or bad defenses left on the schedule, so the opportunity is there.
Quote:
There is nothing to tell to Columbo until Gugeliemo has inked a contract.
That would be true in almost every situation except in off-season when it would right to let Columbo plan ahead. Until then he had a contract and might have accepted help.
It could have even looked to the NFL that he had influence over Gugeliemo has his assistant. He could have asked Judge to play it that way.
"Mark wanted to continue rapid progress by pulling in a consultant to help out."
Not hard to think beyond the moment if you are Columbo but he went to his angry hot take routine and now he is where he is.
Lets see if the Giants get better.
Usually, what gets watched, gets done
Interesting take. So, your supervisor decides you need "help", contacts (with the team's approval) a former associate who does the exact same job you do, never mentions a word to you about this possibility, where this person fits in the hierarchy, what this means for your prospects in the organization, the division of responsibilities, reporting responsibilities, etc and you are overjoyed to welcome this person when word reaches you second hand that this is a done deal. Check.
It seems that of the possible paths to handle this situation, the path chosen was probably the worst.
I know some of you think He can do no wrong, but this was not handled very well at all, and a steamed reaction was certainly predictable given the path chosen.
It's not a good sign when your supervisor has to come and do your job b/c your not getting the results...then when the supervisor gets involved - the results get better.
Columbo should have seen this comin.
Because, Jones is improving, and the team, slowly but surely, is turning around?
What did your analysis say about Leonard Williams?
Two and a half years later, these things are starting to fall in place. Did you preach patience? Or did you want to burn it down again last year?
I was on the Jones bandwagon pretty early on. I don’t follow NCAA or do the draftnik thing, so I reserved judgement on draft day.
But this year has raised more questions than provided answers with regards to Jones. One complete game does not make a franchise QB
The LW trade is still a bad trade. If he walks after this year, then what was the point? And the right move might be to let LW get mega bucks elsewhere and sign Tomlinson to a more reasonable contract.
It’s way to early to say the OL has been rebuilt or that the team is surely on the way up. We could still very easily end up with 4 or 5 wins.
The best comp for Judge as HC is probably Flores in Miami. This past offseason Flores showed he's not afraid to make significant changes to his staff: new OC, new DC, new OL/QB/OLB/assistant DBs coaches were brought on. Judge bringing in Gug leads us to think he's cut from a similar cloth. Dolphins season last year was considered by all to be a success based on their preseason expectations. 0-16 was a talked about possible outcome. So even if Giants finish strong and offense shows improvements its certainly a possibility Garrett is out if Judge - like with the OL Coach - wants to bring in his own guy.
Some interesting quotes from an article on the Dolphins changes this offseason:
“Being able to teach and communicate,” Flores said. “Which in a lot of ways go hand in hand. So teach the players and communicate with the coaches.”
And those are really the key reasons why the Dolphins have officially hired veteran offensive coordinator Chan Gailey, offensive line coach Steve Marshall, quarterbacks coach Robby Brown, outside linebackers coach Austin Clark and assistant defensive backs coach Curt Kuntz and promoted Josh Boyer to defensive coordinator.
Miami Dolphins coach Brian Flores opens up about coaching staff shakeup - ( New Window )
I have been on both sides of this coin and have managed a lot of people. There are problems here on both sides. The thing I feel pretty sure about is that Judge's mistake is a "rookie" mistake and he can correct it. Colombo's mistake is a personality thing, and likely has always been his mode of operation. Some people blow up like this and some handle things better. You need to know who you are dealing with.
For example Garrett seems to have a much more mature attitude. I bet if this were done to him (and Jerry Jones did), he wouldn't like it any more than Colombo, but the outcome would have been 180 degrees different.
The best comp for Judge as HC is probably Flores in Miami. This past offseason Flores showed he's not afraid to make significant changes to his staff: new OC, new DC, new OL/QB/OLB/assistant DBs coaches were brought on. Judge bringing in Gug leads us to think he's cut from a similar cloth. Dolphins season last year was considered by all to be a success based on their preseason expectations. 0-16 was a talked about possible outcome. So even if Giants finish strong and offense shows improvements its certainly a possibility Garrett is out if Judge - like with the OL Coach - wants to bring in his own guy.
Some interesting quotes from an article on the Dolphins changes this offseason:
Quote:
If a potential assistant coach were interviewing with Flores for a job, what would be the one or two things that he values the most?
“Being able to teach and communicate,” Flores said. “Which in a lot of ways go hand in hand. So teach the players and communicate with the coaches.”
And those are really the key reasons why the Dolphins have officially hired veteran offensive coordinator Chan Gailey, offensive line coach Steve Marshall, quarterbacks coach Robby Brown, outside linebackers coach Austin Clark and assistant defensive backs coach Curt Kuntz and promoted Josh Boyer to defensive coordinator.
Miami Dolphins coach Brian Flores opens up about coaching staff shakeup - ( New Window )
Again, why are people so sure Garrett wasn’t who Judge wanted? He was possibly the best coordinator available.
I'm not a Garrett fan by any means, but he's been calling better plays. I wouldn't be surprised if he was let go in the off season and I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed.
It is very possible. It is how the Giants have operated for decades. Often it worked, lately it hasn't. The Mara's have always put their foot on hiring processes, whether it's the GM, HC, or assistants.
Look, there was a lot of logic bringing in Garrett as OC, a guy with ample HC experience to work with a newbie. But you don't find it the least bit curious that Judge decided to hire the one guy the Mara's have fawned over for years?
You could make a case that one of the best things that could happen in this off season is some dumb owner hiring Jason Garrett as his HC. If that doesn't happen I hope Judge has enough authority to make a change at OC.
I don't care if Lombardi is an actual clown with a red nose and a wig - he's been right about this team for years.
Sometimes I feel like there's this parallel universe where the Giants have been something other than a steaming pile of shit for these last 8 years.
Just to name 2 things he was dead wrong about in 2019 he spent the entire lead up to the draft claiming the Giants didn't like any of the QBs and were still rolling with Eli. And last offseason he spent 2 months saying Rhule wouldn't consider the Giants, it turns out as he was having a dialogue directly with Mara behind the scenes.
In both cases he used his supposed "insider info" to drive his hot take that the Giants organization is broken. I don't agree with that opinion though I do think it's an acceptable. What is hackish is inventing BS to support it that turns out to be wrong and carrying on with the charade like nothing happened.
DG's time here has not been good. And that's based on the roster on the field and the lack of wins in the standings. Nothing more is even needed to be analyzed whether you like him or not. DG's myriad of player transactions for 3 years has still left the roster yearning for talent at almost every position on the field sans Defensive Tackle.
Averaging 4 wins per year....how could they not shown some improvement, particularly with the draft slot he has been given and maintained and a head coach that seems to look the part.
He got his 3rd year...but the critique is not premature.
At all.
So you are an all or nothing person? Were some of his FA choices bad? - absolutely. But were many of them good? probably.
Were some of the draft choices bad - yep(not unusual). But were many of then good? yep
Did he get rid of some pretty divisive/disruptive players - no question.
Funny how the quality of the players brought in improved when Judge was hired. Funny how players that remained from previous years improved when the coaching got better - or do you not see that.
I am not a DG apologist, but I am also not a hater and blind to everything but the negative. Was he the best choice at the time? Who knows - I do know that BBI fav boy Dorsey was let go by the Browns in 1 year.
That was the problem with the Giants. For the longest time when asked who makes the picks in the draft Mara would always say it is a collaborative effort. That is why there was such hostility over whether to fire Coughlin or Reese. People kill Gettleman all the time for the players he brings in but it is clear as day Shurmur and Judge had a huge influence on the players brought in.
Lombardi doesn't know shit. He said the Pats use their grading system which came from George Young but it has been altered. Then he says the Giants haven't adapted yet admits he doesn't have that knowledge within the organization.
It is pretty simple, the Giants have sucked so he just criticizes everything about them without truly knowing what is happening inside the building. They're an easy target. He also said that McDaniels wasn't an option for us because we wouldn't adapt to what the Pats would do yet that is exactly what has happened so far with Judge. Hell, Gettleman came in and revamped everything. Why wouldn't Mars allow him to do that? Mara always lets his coaches/GM run things the way they deem fit. It is a lot of hypocritical comments by him hence why I can't take anything he says serious. His fall back is always that he wrote a book on leadership. Big fucking deal.
But if you read his book you too may be able to collaborate well enough to find the next Barkevious Mingo, Jimmy Garapolo, or Jamarcus Russell.
Changing the system on Jones again makes little sense. That would make 3 different systems in 3 seasons.
If they were to draft a QB in round 1 and move on from Jones, all things should be on the table. But that was unlikely to begin with, and they seem to be on a path toward playing themselves out of prime QB draft position, if they haven't already.
I don't have a strong opinion on Garrett either way, but it's evident to me that Jones as the QB in a Garrett offense is all but a given for 2021.
Quote:
on this thread I think is distracting from the most interesting possible takeaways to consider: whether we can expect Garrett to be here next year.
The best comp for Judge as HC is probably Flores in Miami. This past offseason Flores showed he's not afraid to make significant changes to his staff: new OC, new DC, new OL/QB/OLB/assistant DBs coaches were brought on. Judge bringing in Gug leads us to think he's cut from a similar cloth. Dolphins season last year was considered by all to be a success based on their preseason expectations. 0-16 was a talked about possible outcome. So even if Giants finish strong and offense shows improvements its certainly a possibility Garrett is out if Judge - like with the OL Coach - wants to bring in his own guy.
Some interesting quotes from an article on the Dolphins changes this offseason:
Quote:
If a potential assistant coach were interviewing with Flores for a job, what would be the one or two things that he values the most?
“Being able to teach and communicate,” Flores said. “Which in a lot of ways go hand in hand. So teach the players and communicate with the coaches.”
And those are really the key reasons why the Dolphins have officially hired veteran offensive coordinator Chan Gailey, offensive line coach Steve Marshall, quarterbacks coach Robby Brown, outside linebackers coach Austin Clark and assistant defensive backs coach Curt Kuntz and promoted Josh Boyer to defensive coordinator.
Miami Dolphins coach Brian Flores opens up about coaching staff shakeup - ( New Window )
Again, why are people so sure Garrett wasn’t who Judge wanted? He was possibly the best coordinator available.
A lot of it boils down to people forcing the "Giants Way" narrative. Remember that Garrett was the sure-fire next HC for us?? When that didn't happen, he surely had to be a forced hire by Mara because he once was a backup QB here.
And if you repeat it enough, people start to believe it. It is really easy to have the pulse on the team when shit is made up to fit a narrative
Quote:
DG's time here has not been good. And that's based on the roster on the field and the lack of wins in the standings. Nothing more is even needed to be analyzed whether you like him or not. DG's myriad of player transactions for 3 years has still left the roster yearning for talent at almost every position on the field sans Defensive Tackle.
Averaging 4 wins per year....how could they not shown some improvement, particularly with the draft slot he has been given and maintained and a head coach that seems to look the part.
He got his 3rd year...but the critique is not premature.
At all.
So you are an all or nothing person? Were some of his FA choices bad? - absolutely. But were many of them good? probably.
Were some of the draft choices bad - yep(not unusual). But were many of then good? yep
Did he get rid of some pretty divisive/disruptive players - no question.
Funny how the quality of the players brought in improved when Judge was hired. Funny how players that remained from previous years improved when the coaching got better - or do you not see that.
I am not a DG apologist, but I am also not a hater and blind to everything but the negative. Was he the best choice at the time? Who knows - I do know that BBI fav boy Dorsey was let go by the Browns in 1 year.
I have been very hard on DG with respect to the many, too many, errors he has made towards improving this team since Day 1. He hasn't done a credible job, and yes I prefer him to go walk away in the sunset, or Cape Cod I guess.
But in no way have I been all or nothing with him. I give him credit where credit is due.
2018 was a disaster in every way possible, no question. I don't even want to talk about any of it because it will only make me mad.
2019 was also bad in way too many aspects, but a few positive moves to him credit for including net roster additions he got in OBJ trade, and probably finding D. Slayton late in draft.
2020 he did really well in free agency with Bradberry, Martinez. The Logan Ryan signing is interesting as that seemed more desperation for the Secondary at the time than vision. Kind of same with Gano but at least we have them. I also give DG credit that he went all-in on the OL in the draft. But that is like a double-edged sword too because his crap OL moves led that to be a desperation draft strategy as well. Credit for seeing something in Gates though.
And I have posted about the above positives plenty. It doesn't change the fact that Cape Cod is calling for him imv.
Quote:
In comment 15052000 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
on this thread I think is distracting from the most interesting possible takeaways to consider: whether we can expect Garrett to be here next year.
The best comp for Judge as HC is probably Flores in Miami. This past offseason Flores showed he's not afraid to make significant changes to his staff: new OC, new DC, new OL/QB/OLB/assistant DBs coaches were brought on. Judge bringing in Gug leads us to think he's cut from a similar cloth. Dolphins season last year was considered by all to be a success based on their preseason expectations. 0-16 was a talked about possible outcome. So even if Giants finish strong and offense shows improvements its certainly a possibility Garrett is out if Judge - like with the OL Coach - wants to bring in his own guy.
Some interesting quotes from an article on the Dolphins changes this offseason:
Quote:
If a potential assistant coach were interviewing with Flores for a job, what would be the one or two things that he values the most?
“Being able to teach and communicate,” Flores said. “Which in a lot of ways go hand in hand. So teach the players and communicate with the coaches.”
And those are really the key reasons why the Dolphins have officially hired veteran offensive coordinator Chan Gailey, offensive line coach Steve Marshall, quarterbacks coach Robby Brown, outside linebackers coach Austin Clark and assistant defensive backs coach Curt Kuntz and promoted Josh Boyer to defensive coordinator.
Miami Dolphins coach Brian Flores opens up about coaching staff shakeup - ( New Window )
Again, why are people so sure Garrett wasn’t who Judge wanted? He was possibly the best coordinator available.
A lot of it boils down to people forcing the "Giants Way" narrative. Remember that Garrett was the sure-fire next HC for us?? When that didn't happen, he surely had to be a forced hire by Mara because he once was a backup QB here.
And if you repeat it enough, people start to believe it. It is really easy to have the pulse on the team when shit is made up to fit a narrative
While I don't think it needs your conspiracy theories, I agree with sentiment that Garrett was freely hired by Judge. He may have been recommended by others, but I think we have seen/heard enough from Judge thus far to be confident he isn't just an empty suit.
I have been on both sides of this coin and have managed a lot of people. There are problems here on both sides. The thing I feel pretty sure about is that Judge's mistake is a "rookie" mistake and he can correct it. Colombo's mistake is a personality thing, and likely has always been his mode of operation. Some people blow up like this and some handle things better. You need to know who you are dealing with.
For example Garrett seems to have a much more mature attitude. I bet if this were done to him (and Jerry Jones did), he wouldn't like it any more than Colombo, but the outcome would have been 180 degrees different.
I agree with this assessment. Judge is gonna get some things wrong, he’s very young and inexperienced. I will say, it sure seems like he got rid of the right the guy, even if he bungled the play.
Lombardi is a bomb thrower. And he absolutely has some kind of hair across his ass for the Giants. But if you can deal with his ridiculousness, sometimes he has some interesting things to say.
Also obviously they spoke directly because isn't the salacious part of the story that they "had words"?
So the only question is whether Columbo heard second hand vs. directly from Judge? Is there any evidence of the former from a reputable source? Because here's some reporting indicating he heard directly.
Here's a link to Garafolo explaining what happened - he's been the most clued in to this entire story having reported Judge's OL involvement days before the firing - and his telling of the story is that Judge told Columbo directly, and objecting to Judge's decision, which led to the verbal altercation (and subsequent firing). Nothing about Columbo hearing second hand.
https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1329147856997986304? - ( New Window )
Also obviously they spoke directly because isn't the salacious part of the story that they "had words"?
So the only question is whether Columbo heard second hand vs. directly from Judge? Is there any evidence of the former from a reputable source? Because here's some reporting indicating he heard directly.
Here's a link to Garafolo explaining what happened - he's been the most clued in to this entire story having reported Judge's OL involvement days before the firing - and his telling of the story is that Judge told Columbo directly, and objecting to Judge's decision, which led to the verbal altercation (and subsequent firing). Nothing about Columbo hearing second hand. https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1329147856997986304? - ( New Window )
Its been posted a few times here and on twitter. Here is one from Peppers in the Colombo thread:
"
Peppers : 11/19/2020 6:20 am : link : reply
What I've heard..
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
"
What should judge have done? Not fire the guy even though he wanted to?
This is unfounded gossip. He fired him. Whether he handled things incorrectly doesn’t even matter anymore. He wanted a new guy brought in and apparently Colombo went nuts. Who cares about the timing of everything? Irrelevant.
Quote:
I find it real hard to believe this was "done wrong" when it happened at the exact appropriate time to make any sort of staff change - when the team is at the beginning of it's 2 week bye.
Also obviously they spoke directly because isn't the salacious part of the story that they "had words"?
So the only question is whether Columbo heard second hand vs. directly from Judge? Is there any evidence of the former from a reputable source? Because here's some reporting indicating he heard directly.
Here's a link to Garafolo explaining what happened - he's been the most clued in to this entire story having reported Judge's OL involvement days before the firing - and his telling of the story is that Judge told Columbo directly, and objecting to Judge's decision, which led to the verbal altercation (and subsequent firing). Nothing about Columbo hearing second hand. https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1329147856997986304? - ( New Window )
Its been posted a few times here and on twitter. Here is one from Peppers in the Colombo thread:
"
Peppers : 11/19/2020 6:20 am : link : reply
What I've heard..
1st. Judge and Colombo got into a shouting match - in each other's faces which led to Colombo shoving Judge. He was irate but there was no fistfight.
2nd. Apparently, this has been brewing for a while. There's been tension between the two since the start of the season. Colombo found out about DeGuglielmo from another coach/person in the building. Colombo confronted Judge. There was no set meeting where Judge informed Colombo.
"
This is gossip. We don’t know this to be true with all due respect.
I think Garrett called a great game versus Tampa (Jones was just awful), and seems to be finding his stride a bit more lately, but "excellent" seems a little excessive. And I have no problem bringing him back...
The star of Judge's staff is Graham. He's really manufactured some effective schemes to overcome talent issues. We really have no high level, reliable pass rusher. Yet, we are 7th in the league in sacks and fairly high in pressures. That's a real testament to Graham...
Taking a step back from the he said/she said let's think about the facts logicially - Columbo was so pissed about something he was willing to lose his job. Does it make any sense that Columbo would have been fine with DeGuglielmo but chose to give up his job and embarrassingly get fired because he'd heard it through the grapevine first?
Also another thing that makes little sense - Deguglielmo wasn't going to just show up and start coaching players secretly. Columbo and the rest of the coaches were going to be told. If Columbo's performance was the root issue here, what entitlement did he have to be the first to know about whatever his manager's performance plans were to fix it? Anyone who has managed teams can tell you that if someone is not performing to the point where you need to take action it is completely normal to have conversations about that plan with other people in their chain of command before talking to them 1 on 1. So the grapevine thing IMO is irrelevant on all levels. It would have been completely appropriate for Judge to have had conversations with Garrett and anyone else he trusts before making this decision. And those conversations should have happened before a finalized plan was communicated to Columbo. So if Columbo heard it from someone other than Judge first that's the person who may have messed up. Though if it was Garrett who delivered the news that may have also been completely appropriate since he is Columbo's direct boss.
Net-net this strikes me as a "if the facts are against you, attack the process" damage control story if it's even real info in the first place.
Taking a step back from the he said/she said let's think about the facts logicially - Columbo was so pissed about something he was willing to lose his job. Does it make any sense that Columbo would have been fine with DeGuglielmo but chose to give up his job and embarrassingly get fired because he'd heard it through the grapevine first?
Also another thing that makes little sense - Deguglielmo wasn't going to just show up and start coaching players secretly. Columbo and the rest of the coaches were going to be told. If Columbo's performance was the root issue here, what entitlement did he have to be the first to know about whatever his manager's performance plans were to fix it? Anyone who has managed teams can tell you that if someone is not performing to the point where you need to take action it is completely normal to have conversations about that plan with other people in their chain of command before talking to them 1 on 1. So the grapevine thing IMO is irrelevant on all levels. It would have been completely appropriate for Judge to have had conversations with Garrett and anyone else he trusts before making this decision. And those conversations should have happened before a finalized plan was communicated to Columbo. So if Columbo heard it from someone other than Judge first that's the person who may have messed up. Though if it was Garrett who delivered the news that may have also been completely appropriate since he is Columbo's direct boss.
Net-net this strikes me as a "if the facts are against you, attack the process" damage control story if it's even real info in the first place.
I've seen it other places too, but I'm not going to bother looking. If you're interested you can find them. I just took it upon myself to answer your question and provide one instance. I guess in reality you can dismiss this, or if you wanted you can take this as the fact and dismiss the other view. Just like in anything else (politics for instance) you are free to choose. To me this makes a lot of sense based on the reaction from Colombo but what do I know. However its not something I just made up