the situation is with Malik Beasley given his brush w the law (not at all insignificant). Not to discount that, but if they view it as a low risk (a BIG if) off the court...he is a terrific fit on the court. Young athletic wing who would push RJB over to the SF spot.
FVV, Beasley, RJB, Toppin, Mitch would be an exciting 5 to root for and watch develop.
Was hoping the Knicks could pry him from Denver before he was dealt to Minny, and figured Minny would re-sign him. Maybe the Edwards pick opens the door for us.
hoping the nets can grab Ibaka or Roberson or both
"A couple was on the annual Parade of Homes tour on Sept. 26 with their 13-year-old child and pulled up in an SUV to the home Beasley and Yao rent but saw it was roped off. While pulled over to look up another home to visit, Beasley tapped on the vehicle's window and pointed a rifle at them.
"Get the [expletive] off my property!" Beasley said.
Beasley continued to train his "all-black assault rifle with a forehand grip" and a scope at the SUV as it drove off, the criminal complaint read.
Officers detected an overwhelming odor of marijuana and soon located more than 1¾ pounds of the drug in the basement living room and main floor office. Next to the stash was a notebook with instructions on how to smoke the drug."
That family must have been scared shitless. And what could the instructions in the notebook be...?
"A couple was on the annual Parade of Homes tour on Sept. 26 with their 13-year-old child and pulled up in an SUV to the home Beasley and Yao rent but saw it was roped off. While pulled over to look up another home to visit, Beasley tapped on the vehicle's window and pointed a rifle at them.
"Get the [expletive] off my property!" Beasley said.
Beasley continued to train his "all-black assault rifle with a forehand grip" and a scope at the SUV as it drove off, the criminal complaint read.
Officers detected an overwhelming odor of marijuana and soon located more than 1¾ pounds of the drug in the basement living room and main floor office. Next to the stash was a notebook with instructions on how to smoke the drug."
That family must have been scared shitless. And what could the instructions in the notebook be...?
what is a "parade of homes" and what could be in that notebook?
Def not a glowing story for Beasley. Maybe there was more to it, maybe he was too fucked up, who knows. Im usually good with not holding people to one bad thing, not sure if he has had other issues in the past.
Where us Knicks fans get to sit around and watch the rest of the NBA wheel and deal and sign talent while every decent player with other options tell the Knicks to take a long walk off a short pier.
"A couple was on the annual Parade of Homes tour on Sept. 26 with their 13-year-old child and pulled up in an SUV to the home Beasley and Yao rent but saw it was roped off. While pulled over to look up another home to visit, Beasley tapped on the vehicle's window and pointed a rifle at them.
"Get the [expletive] off my property!" Beasley said.
Beasley continued to train his "all-black assault rifle with a forehand grip" and a scope at the SUV as it drove off, the criminal complaint read.
Officers detected an overwhelming odor of marijuana and soon located more than 1¾ pounds of the drug in the basement living room and main floor office. Next to the stash was a notebook with instructions on how to smoke the drug."
That family must have been scared shitless. And what could the instructions in the notebook be...?
Beasley and Yao rented a house together?
Yao (last name) is his girlfriend, but I would love to see a reality show with Yao Ming and Malik Beasley.
Where us Knicks fans get to sit around and watch the rest of the NBA wheel and deal and sign talent while every decent player with other options tell the Knicks to take a long walk off a short pier.
Can we please lose this tired narrative? We get it, its been dismal. But the new leadership is an encouraging group and let's give them a clean slate to see what they can do.
Where us Knicks fans get to sit around and watch the rest of the NBA wheel and deal and sign talent while every decent player with other options tell the Knicks to take a long walk off a short pier.
Can we please lose this tired narrative? We get it, its been dismal. But the new leadership is an encouraging group and let's give them a clean slate to see what they can do.
Nothing against Leon Rose, but I really don't get how hiring an agent as the president of the organization will get us in the good graces of free agents. Okay, so he knows the top players' agents. Fantastic. That doesn't mean they players going to do Rose a solid and sign here on discounted prices.
i know the media stated that was a reason, but maybe he is just a smart basketball guy who went out and hired a pretty solid FO.
Im not saying that is it, im just saying i dont think they hired him cause he is an agent. But im choosing to give the new FO a chance, i know we have been here many times before, but its only fair to give a new regime a chance.
i know the media stated that was a reason, but maybe he is just a smart basketball guy who went out and hired a pretty solid FO.
Im not saying that is it, im just saying i dont think they hired him cause he is an agent. But im choosing to give the new FO a chance, i know we have been here many times before, but its only fair to give a new regime a chance.
It's not just Rose. It's the new trend in pretty much every sport to hire agents to prominent front office roles. The Mets with BVW. The Lakers with Pelinka. I'm not sure I really get it. Yeah, maybe they have exceptional basketball acumen, but that's not what makes an agent. An agent prides himself/herself on his/her negotiating skills and marketability. It's not so much the talent scouting aspect of it. At the end of the day, money talks.
When they get brought in as president i get it more..
then say GM. They understand the league, the players, etc... Bringing them in as GM (BVW) was dumb because there is no reason to think they are some great judges of talent or have any idea how to actually put together a team.
Where us Knicks fans get to sit around and watch the rest of the NBA wheel and deal and sign talent while every decent player with other options tell the Knicks to take a long walk off a short pier.
Can we please lose this tired narrative? We get it, its been dismal. But the new leadership is an encouraging group and let's give them a clean slate to see what they can do.
Oh no knock on Rose & co. They seemed to do fine with the draft But I'll believe a star chooses us over other options when I see it.
them being quality judges of talent. If they sign lesser talented players, then they waste their time negotiating deals. It's both harder to find deals for lesser players and the deals are much lower value.
FYI- his son is an agent for CAA and one of Toppin's agents.I have no idea how Leon Rose the President will untangle himself with CAA the agency.... Leon Rose - ( New Window )
them being quality judges of talent. If they sign lesser talented players, then they waste their time negotiating deals. It's both harder to find deals for lesser players and the deals are much lower value.
Some agents go after the small fish out of necessity because the big stars will never choose them to represent them. In Rose's case, he basically only represented stars, no? I'm sure he got a start somewhere, but CAA is the biggest agency in the country.
He-he, I somewhat enjoyed Super Cool Beas' time here. Goofy as heck, but I enjoyed the scoring. Much more 'organic' than Randle, who disrupts everything with his contrived moves.
FYI- his son is an agent for CAA and one of Toppin's agents.I have no idea how Leon Rose the President will untangle himself with CAA the agency.... Leon Rose - ( New Window )
CAA is one of the biggest agencies in the NBA, people only complain aboit it when Rose does something they dont like..
For example if they draftdd Haliburton would CAA have been brought up?
Here's an interesting conspiracy theory regarding Halliburton. Link - ( New Window )
I found the following to be the most interesting part!!
“ According to the conversation with Lowe, the Dallas Mavericks tried to move up to pick No. 8 and select Haliburton, but the Knicks waited to see if Obi Toppin would fall to them and he did.”
Here's an interesting conspiracy theory regarding Halliburton. Link - ( New Window )
I found the following to be the most interesting part!!
“ According to the conversation with Lowe, the Dallas Mavericks tried to move up to pick No. 8 and select Haliburton, but the Knicks waited to see if Obi Toppin would fall to them and he did.”
Well, we already own two of their future first rounders, so what else could they have offered us?
FYI- his son is an agent for CAA and one of Toppin's agents.I have no idea how Leon Rose the President will untangle himself with CAA the agency.... Leon Rose - ( New Window )
CAA is one of the biggest agencies in the NBA, people only complain aboit it when Rose does something they dont like..
For example if they draftdd Haliburton would CAA have been brought up?
I'm not complaining. If anything I think it can be an advantage. I honestly didn't know his son was an agent there.
I really like the Toppin pick. Seems like they got great value at 8. I like it.
Here's an interesting conspiracy theory regarding Halliburton. Link - ( New Window )
I found the following to be the most interesting part!!
“ According to the conversation with Lowe, the Dallas Mavericks tried to move up to pick No. 8 and select Haliburton, but the Knicks waited to see if Obi Toppin would fall to them and he did.”
Well, we already own two of their future first rounders, so what else could they have offered us?
FYI- his son is an agent for CAA and one of Toppin's agents.I have no idea how Leon Rose the President will untangle himself with CAA the agency.... Leon Rose - ( New Window )
CAA is one of the biggest agencies in the NBA, people only complain aboit it when Rose does something they dont like..
For example if they draftdd Haliburton would CAA have been brought up?
I'm not complaining. If anything I think it can be an advantage. I honestly didn't know his son was an agent there.
I really like the Toppin pick. Seems like they got great value at 8. I like it.
Funny probably because of the negativity around here with him leading up to the draft I was kind of down on him but suddenly the day of the draft I did a deeper dive on him and got hooked. He is so dynamic offensively I think he only has begun scratching the surface eventhough he's 21. He will definately bring some juice into the building. When's the last time we had that? I also see Quigley really lighting it up off the bench and a guy who can be on the floor late in games due to his athleticism, defense and free throw shooting. I probably would have taken Flynn there but I'm not complaining.
came from the idea that seemed commonly accepted that if Toppin was a Knick it meant that they would have traded up, and it didn't feel like the top of the draft was strong enough to warrant giving up assets.
When they stayed put, I felt a lot better about it. The human/hometown element of seeing the kid's reaction didn't hurt perception either. But primarily the fact that they still had that second first round pick.
came from the idea that seemed commonly accepted that if Toppin was a Knick it meant that they would have traded up, and it didn't feel like the top of the draft was strong enough to warrant giving up assets.
When they stayed put, I felt a lot better about it. The human/hometown element of seeing the kid's reaction didn't hurt perception either. But primarily the fact that they still had that second first round pick.
True. I also think his poor D had a lot to do with it. I think there's way too much handwringing over NBA guys and their D. Especially a guy like Toppin with his work ethic and Thibs ability to coach up D. Also I was really surprised to find out what a growth spurt he's had in recent years as well. He couldn't even dunk as a junior in HS. Growing into that type of body change has to be difficult at times to adjust too especially without great defensive coaching.
Way subjective, of course. Personally, I don't think we should blow our load this offseason, as next offseason's class is more star-studded. Thibs will disagree, of course. I won't mind a sprinkling of decent moves, but nothing major hopefully. Link - ( New Window )
Regarding concerns with his defense, I've read it has less to do with his commitment or experience and more to do with a lack of flexibility (hips), which is often a concern with DB's and safeties. We'll see as his gets tested with pick and rolls.
Regarding concerns with his defense, I've read it has less to do with his commitment or experience and more to do with a lack of flexibility (hips), which is often a concern with DB's and safeties. We'll see as his gets tested with pick and rolls.
The one thing he has going for him he is not afraid of hard work and practice.
Hopefully with coaching and effort it will improve so that it's not a liability
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
·
48s
Can’t confirm anything is done, but hearing some rumblings on the Gordon Hayward front...how would Knicks fans feel about three years, $70 million?
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
·
48s
Can’t confirm anything is done, but hearing some rumblings on the Gordon Hayward front...how would Knicks fans feel about three years, $70 million?
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
·
48s
Can’t confirm anything is done, but hearing some rumblings on the Gordon Hayward front...how would Knicks fans feel about three years, $70 million?
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
·
48s
Can’t confirm anything is done, but hearing some rumblings on the Gordon Hayward front...how would Knicks fans feel about three years, $70 million?
overall I think they should avoid vets this offseason...but if this is the direction Rose wants to take them then this isn't awful IMO. And if that's the contract, that's less than I assumed he'd go for.
and i think its fair. Also if Hayward is healthy he is 100% a tradeable asset (pending any no trade clauses). Sure id rather 2 years, but that is just not happening.
who has won in this league. One who is not just a solid vet (bullock, taj are solid vets) but one who is the best player on the team. I think a guy like Jimmy Butler did wonders for the young heat players. Im not saying Hayward has the demeanor or work ethic of butler (I have no idea) but the young guys on the team need a "star" to work with. Its one of the reasons i was all for CP3
It's hard to build a winning culture unless a team thinks they have a chance to win most nights. And if you just have youngsters that's not really realistic. Hayward would fill a desperate shooting need and also provide a credible veteran presence. At 3/70, he would be a pretty good use of Dolan's money, tbh.
the nice part is that he can facilitate a good bit, so it puts a much lower need on a PG. Im curious about the fit defensively with RJ.
That would be a horrible defense 2 through 4, which is the main problem with this.
Toppin is a poor defender, no doubt, but RJ is fine and Hayward is average. They don't have any lock down guys but with Mitch and Frank off the bench, it can be passable.
and toppin hits the ground running offensively you could get by with starting Frank. Especially if he somehow developed his 3 pt shot, haha. With RJ, Hayward and Toppin you wouldnt need a scoring PG (of coures one who could drive and distribute would be nice). Frank and Mitch are plus defenders, RJ and Hayward average and Toppin poor, not exactly the worst defensive lineup
im not saying i want Frank, was just saying that with Hayward on board you might be able to get away with Frank, which would allow Hayward/RJ to guard the lesser skilled guard.
But yes at worst i think we end up with a starting vet PG like DJ augustine.
i love joe--- but when they are talking about 18 a yr for him and being a key target- its a bit frightening in regards to strength of the class
Yeah, I know.
Joey Hoops will always be special to me, though, along with Akil Mitchell. They didn't go all the way, and I will always cherish our national championship squad, but those two guys got the whole thing started at UVA. In Tony Bennett's first few years, when wins were scarce and
when wins were scarce and there was an exodus of players who couldn't hack it, those two guys stuck it out and, over the course of their four years, turned a perennial loser into an ACC champion and #1 NCAA tournament seed.
Who knows but still feels to me like he's using our cap space to leverage a S&T to Indy. If we sign him, no complaints at 3/70 or even a touch north of that. He's a borderline all-star when healthy but, more importantly, isn't a ball dominant guy but instead would help facilitate for our young guys. What the last few years have shown me is that tanking is fine but it hurts development to not at least have an organized system and try to put guys in the position to succeed/grow. A team like this would be fun to watch:
PG - DJ Augustin/DSJ/Frank
SG - RJ/Frank/Quickley
SF - Hayward/Knox
PF - Obi/Julius
C - Mitch/Ed Davis
i like Bogdan, but he is 28 (2 years younger). If the argument is your worried bout Hayward's health, then i get it, but thats about it. I mean this feels like the mystery box, i mean Bogdan can be anything, he could even be Gordon Hayward.
All that said, i highly doubt bogdan gets a contract as big as Hayward (not even sure what the max for Bogdan is).
Apparently the Lakers and Hawks are expected to pursue
His line with the Wolves was pretty absurd, in admittedly only 14 games.
21-5-2 on 48/42/75 splits. Key number is 8 3PA per game. Only 24 so not in his prime yet. Solid athlete/defender.
Definitely a question mark about the gun charge but medical marijuana is legal in Ny so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Really not huge on Hayward to NYK. Can get Malik Beasley who is younger and would be cheaper. Also need some $ for a PG, a lot of $ for an injury prone SF
I read yesterday. Minnesota Timberwolves President of Basketball Operations Gersson Rosas tonight announced the team has acquired the draft rights to Mathias Lessort from the Los Angeles Clippers and a 2023 Second Round Pick from the Detroit Pistons in exchange for the draft rights to the number 33 pick in the 2020 NBA Draft Daniel Oturu.
I thought nba would pay more but I guess I'm not sure. Is it because he's a starter there but would sit the bench here? Or play the g league?
Anybody know?
from FVV and Hayward. So where do we spend our money? Leon needed to know days ago we weren't getting these guys...and some of the guys we let go (Ellington, Taj, Payton) may have been worth keeping.
that isnt caldwell pope? Cause i have no interest in him.
Time to use that capspace in other ways. Doesnt look like any of the top guys are coming and thats perfectly fine. I wouldnt be upset with FVV or Hayward, but its not like we are missing out on Lebron or KD here. Just move on and show us you have a plan.
that isnt caldwell pope? Cause i have no interest in him.
Time to use that capspace in other ways. Doesnt look like any of the top guys are coming and thats perfectly fine. I wouldnt be upset with FVV or Hayward, but its not like we are missing out on Lebron or KD here. Just move on and show us you have a plan.
He probably is representing by CAA.
The best thing the knicks can do with their cap space
is use it to absorb bad deals and acquire assets with it in the process like they did with Ed David yesterday.
No big FA are coming here and signing these medicore ones are not doing anything positive for the team both in the short and long term as evidenced by last year. They only take away playing time from the younger players and give the team a few meaningless wins at the end of the season .
Build the team the right way through the draft, acquiring assets , and focus on development. eventually when you have a winning team or at least a team on the rise that is when the FA will want to come ala Brooklyn .
The problem is every front office under Dolan always wants that quick fix through Free agency and it never works and it never will work . They need someone disciplined like Sam Presti who understands that OKC is not a premiere FA destination so he has to build his team through drafting, asset collection, player development, and trades .
the nonsense they did last year. Thing is you need teams to need the capspace and this FA is so ehh im not sure too many deals will materialize. Lets hope so though
The more I think about Beasley the more sense he makes assuming the off the court stuff checks out. Honestly fine with getting him and Augustine and saving 10-15m in space for in season stuff.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Free agent center Mason Plumlee has agreed to a three-year, $25M deal with the Detroit Pistons, his agent Mark Bartelstein of @PrioritySportstells ESPN.
the nonsense they did last year. Thing is you need teams to need the capspace and this FA is so ehh im not sure too many deals will materialize. Lets hope so though
Yes but there are very few teams left with cap space at this point and there are still a lot of FA out there. Also teams might want to pursue RFA or trades and might need to shed a contract off their books to do it. This si where the knicks renting out their cap space for draft picks can be used for their advantage instead of filling it up with mediocre junk like KCP, Jeff Teague etc .
If they are going to use their capspace though not on absorbing bad deals, then using it on ascending players like Wood, Bogdanovich, Beasley is what they should be doing . Guys who can grow with the team and whose best years might be ahead of them
They should be looking for bad 1 year contracts. And why is that significant? Well because team would want to free up cap space to sign players. If it didn't happen by now it probably won't be happening. Last year was the year to take on 1 and 2 years of a bad contract. You don't want to have your cap fucked for next offseason. Even of the Knicks get screwed again on another big FA year, we can still absorb contracts then and get better assets because there are better FA available. But that should happen next year if we can't land anyone. The plan this year should be signing 1 year guys like last year but people will probably kill them for that.
They should be looking for bad 1 year contracts. And why is that significant? Well because team would want to free up cap space to sign players. If it didn't happen by now it probably won't be happening. Last year was the year to take on 1 and 2 years of a bad contract. You don't want to have your cap fucked for next offseason. Even of the Knicks get screwed again on another big FA year, we can still absorb contracts then and get better assets because there are better FA available. But that should happen next year if we can't land anyone. The plan this year should be signing 1 year guys like last year but people will probably kill them for that.
Signing 1 year guys never works because they are only looking to pad their stats for their next contract and have no interest in playing team ball .This past year was a disaster because everyone was playing selfishly just looking for their next contract
They should be looking for bad 1 year contracts. And why is that significant? Well because team would want to free up cap space to sign players. If it didn't happen by now it probably won't be happening. Last year was the year to take on 1 and 2 years of a bad contract. You don't want to have your cap fucked for next offseason. Even of the Knicks get screwed again on another big FA year, we can still absorb contracts then and get better assets because there are better FA available. But that should happen next year if we can't land anyone. The plan this year should be signing 1 year guys like last year but people will probably kill them for that.
Signing 1 year guys never works because they are only looking to pad their stats for their next contract and have no interest in playing team ball .This past year was a disaster because everyone was playing selfishly just looking for their next contract
And last year should have been different. This year is about keeping our cap flexible for next offseason. If players are playing selfishly then that's on the coach and the systems in place in the organization.
They should be looking for bad 1 year contracts. And why is that significant? Well because team would want to free up cap space to sign players. If it didn't happen by now it probably won't be happening. Last year was the year to take on 1 and 2 years of a bad contract. You don't want to have your cap fucked for next offseason. Even of the Knicks get screwed again on another big FA year, we can still absorb contracts then and get better assets because there are better FA available. But that should happen next year if we can't land anyone. The plan this year should be signing 1 year guys like last year but people will probably kill them for that.
Signing 1 year guys never works because they are only looking to pad their stats for their next contract and have no interest in playing team ball .This past year was a disaster because everyone was playing selfishly just looking for their next contract
And last year should have been different. This year is about keeping our cap flexible for next offseason. If players are playing selfishly then that's on the coach and the systems in place in the organization.
You can keep the cap flexible while still taking on bad contracts with only 1 year left on them .
Players on 1 year contracts unless they are older vets who are ring chasing are just by nature going to play more selfish because they want to cash out on their next contract. That's why it's a terrible philosophy what they did last year and i really hope they dont repeat it this offseason again.
Either find a player you feel is worth investing a multi year deal in or rent your cap space out. If you cant do neither , then you better make sure the players you are signing are team 1st guys and not guys like Portis, Randle, Ellington etc
I agree with you they should be careful not to take on bad contracts that are going to extend into next years Free Agency but if they are going to go the route of signing players to 1 year deals instead they better be very careful which players they bring in because it's a recipe for disaster
I wasn't against what we did last year at first because I was hoping they'd be able to trade those players for picks. It didn't work out. So, those who said we should have rented out last year were correct.
What with COVID, the cap going down, uncertainty with fans attending next season, etc. Usually there's a plethora of big signings already. Just one super max, and a sprinkling of role players here and there. Strange.
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
Restricted free agent Malik Beasley (@Mbeasy5
) has agreed to a four-year, $60M deal to return to the Minnesota Timberwolves, his agent Brian Jungreis told @TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
.
Restricted free agent Malik Beasley (@Mbeasy5) has agreed to a four-year, $60M deal to return to the Minnesota Timberwolves, his agent Brian Jungreis told @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
Restricted free agent Malik Beasley (@Mbeasy5
) has agreed to a four-year, $60M deal to return to the Minnesota Timberwolves, his agent Brian Jungreis told @TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
.
Damn, 15MM isn't crazy. I probably would have done this.
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
Restricted free agent Malik Beasley (@Mbeasy5
) has agreed to a four-year, $60M deal to return to the Minnesota Timberwolves, his agent Brian Jungreis told @TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
.
Damn, 15MM isn't crazy. I probably would have done this.
This is only 3 + a team option. I definitely would have done this. I'm surprised Beasley didn't try to get an offer to force the Wolves to match TBH. He's going to be behind both Dlo and Edwards.
Christian Wood is close to finalizing a three-year, $27 million contract with the Houston Rockets, according to a source.
Really like this signing for the Rockets. I'm really high on Wood, he tore it up last year. If Harden/Westbrook stay, he'd be a great piece next to them.
Christian Wood is close to finalizing a three-year, $27 million contract with the Houston Rockets, according to a source.
Really like this signing for the Rockets. I'm really high on Wood, he tore it up last year. If Harden/Westbrook stay, he'd be a great piece next to them.
Is it safe to assume knicks are the only team that can offer bogdonovic? How about Randle and bullock for bogdonovic at $28 mil per
Year. Sign Hayward and sign and trade dennis smith jr for van fleet
PG - FVV
SG - Bogdnovic
SF Barrett
PF Toppin
C - Mitch
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
Restricted free agent Malik Beasley (@Mbeasy5
) has agreed to a four-year, $60M deal to return to the Minnesota Timberwolves, his agent Brian Jungreis told @TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
.
Damn, 15MM isn't crazy. I probably would have done this.
Yeah but we already know they match $15M which I guess means they would probably match ~$20M
IMO they should tell him to wait on FVV and if he didn't come to NY they would give him 2/$50M
My one issue with FVV is he wants to stay in Toronto so you'd have to overpay to get him. And if I'm the Knicks I'm not sure staying bad for one more year wouldn't be a great thing. There are some bigger prospects at the top due next year and I think having say the #1 pick and another 1st rounder does more for you to recruit than FVV and coming in 8-10 in the conference and I'm really not sure we could do any better than that with our current roster.
Thx for all the great up to date info. Can’t believe wood got that low a deal unless that was 27 mil per? And as stated it might not even be done yet. Wood doesn’t play any D and he’s been in the league a little while now so he scares me.
Wonder what the Knicks are up to. Rose and the rest have to have some good intel with all their connections.
For the full exception. Basically it’s a 1 year 10 mill deal. Rich get richer as usual
Yep Brian Windhorst
@WindhorstESPN
Montrezl Harrell is planning to sign with the Lakers for two years and $19 million with second season being a player option, agent Rich Paul tells ESPN
9:44 PM · Nov 20, 2020
His defense was exposed in the playoffs. Otherwise he definitely would've gotten a bigger payday. However, playing next to AD is going to really help hide those shortcomings against most teams.
I'm not in love with the move for the Lakers, but they have def improved their secondary scoring with Schroder + Harrell.
Clippers are in real trouble right now. They need to do something.
Free agent guard Joe Harris has agreed to a four-year, $75M deal to return to the Brooklyn Nets, his agent Mark Bartelstein @PrioritySports tells ESPN.
Free agent guard Joe Harris has agreed to a four-year, $75M deal to return to the Brooklyn Nets, his agent Mark Bartelstein @PrioritySports tells ESPN.
As Rockets/Wizards talks on Russell Westbrook-for-John Wall stall, Wall has made it clear he wants trade out of Washington to happen, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.
Denver matched the three-year, $60M offer Jerami Grant received from Detroit. Grant enjoyed his time in Denver, and wanted enhanced offensive role with Pistons.
With the sign and trade of Hayward to Indy is Boston wants Turner and either Warren or Oladipo. While Indy is countering with Turner and our old pal, McDermott. They continue to negotiate, according to Washburn.
seems like barring a falling apart of the Pacers/Celtics deal, it's another year for the Knicks of smaller one year contracts. Hopefully this bunch does better the last.
To be fair some of the contracts being thrown around right now are absurd, so I'm happy we didn't tie 80 mil to Davis Bertans.
With the sign and trade of Hayward to Indy is Boston wants Turner and either Warren or Oladipo. While Indy is countering with Turner and our old pal, McDermott. They continue to negotiate, according to Washburn.
Obviously Ainge thinking his shit doesn't stink is trying to get two starters for a guy who could easily walk for nothing.
With the sign and trade of Hayward to Indy is Boston wants Turner and either Warren or Oladipo. While Indy is countering with Turner and our old pal, McDermott. They continue to negotiate, according to Washburn.
Obviously Ainge thinking his shit doesn't stink is trying to get two starters for a guy who could easily walk for nothing.
IND is over the cap and has no other way to get him. Ainge knows this
seems like barring a falling apart of the Pacers/Celtics deal, it's another year for the Knicks of smaller one year contracts. Hopefully this bunch does better the last.
To be fair some of the contracts being thrown around right now are absurd, so I'm happy we didn't tie 80 mil to Davis Bertans.
seems like barring a falling apart of the Pacers/Celtics deal, it's another year for the Knicks of smaller one year contracts. Hopefully this bunch does better the last.
To be fair some of the contracts being thrown around right now are absurd, so I'm happy we didn't tie 80 mil to Davis Bertans.
Still have hope for VanVleet.
I don't. I think we would have heard something by now about at least interest or a meeting.
Marc Stein
Indiana remains Gordon Hayward's preferred destination, league sources say, which requires a sign-and-trade with the Celtics to net the former Butler star a deal estimated in the four-year, $100 million range
Marc Stein
Indiana remains Gordon Hayward's preferred destination, league sources say, which requires a sign-and-trade with the Celtics to net the former Butler star a deal estimated in the four-year, $100 million range
My top two goals for this team are to fix this culture (yes, that does mean start winning games too which may be tough) and to maintain our cap flexibility for next offseason. This is not the year to be spending big. I'm sure we'll still be left standing at the alter next year but you miss 100% of the chances you don't take. I cant imagine too many teams being able to fix multiple max money players next offseason. That is a huge selling point to FA. They get to pick their teammates. However, we know where we have fallen short in the past. It was our culture and the supporting cast. So, how do you fix that? The culture thing is tough because of decades of shitty handling of this team. But hopefully this new regime gets a better rep. Also, we need these kids to develop fast particularly Toppin and Barrett. I think that can be accomplished. That is why I said I would target 1 year vets this year like last year.
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
My top two goals for this team are to fix this culture (yes, that does mean start winning games too which may be tough) and to maintain our cap flexibility for next offseason. This is not the year to be spending big. I'm sure we'll still be left standing at the alter next year but you miss 100% of the chances you don't take. I cant imagine too many teams being able to fix multiple max money players next offseason. That is a huge selling point to FA. They get to pick their teammates. However, we know where we have fallen short in the past. It was our culture and the supporting cast. So, how do you fix that? The culture thing is tough because of decades of shitty handling of this team. But hopefully this new regime gets a better rep. Also, we need these kids to develop fast particularly Toppin and Barrett. I think that can be accomplished. That is why I said I would target 1 year vets this year like last year.
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
I could be wrong here, but wouldn’t it make sense to trade for a guy like Kemba who can help guys like Barrett and Toppin? I feel like trading for a guy like him may be able to attract a FA next year and makes $10M less than Westbrook. I’m just not totally sure if they sign FVV if he would be able to attract a big time FA.
Things did pick up in the end. I have this sense of dread however... that we're saving our cap space for something big. Johnny Wall might enter into the equation now, aside from Russ. If Rose is truly saving our cap space for next offseason, then great. But we still need a point guard, there's no way Thibs will be satisfied heading into the season with Quickley, Frankie, and DSJ. I just hope it'll be a smart move, fingers crossed.
Marc Stein
Indiana remains Gordon Hayward's preferred destination, league sources say, which requires a sign-and-trade with the Celtics to net the former Butler star a deal estimated in the four-year, $100 million range
He’s from Indy, his family is there and has made it known that’s where he wants to go all along. He’s making Ainge’s job pretty easy as long as he doesn’t get greedy.
My top two goals for this team are to fix this culture (yes, that does mean start winning games too which may be tough) and to maintain our cap flexibility for next offseason. This is not the year to be spending big. I'm sure we'll still be left standing at the alter next year but you miss 100% of the chances you don't take. I cant imagine too many teams being able to fix multiple max money players next offseason. That is a huge selling point to FA. They get to pick their teammates. However, we know where we have fallen short in the past. It was our culture and the supporting cast. So, how do you fix that? The culture thing is tough because of decades of shitty handling of this team. But hopefully this new regime gets a better rep. Also, we need these kids to develop fast particularly Toppin and Barrett. I think that can be accomplished. That is why I said I would target 1 year vets this year like last year.
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
I could be wrong here, but wouldn’t it make sense to trade for a guy like Kemba who can help guys like Barrett and Toppin? I feel like trading for a guy like him may be able to attract a FA next year and makes $10M less than Westbrook. I’m just not totally sure if they sign FVV if he would be able to attract a big time FA.
Kemba is a guy that can attract another player. Absolutely. But of you trade for Kemba then what are you giving up? If it is just Kemba on your roster and nothing else then it really isn't all that attractive.
My top two goals for this team are to fix this culture (yes, that does mean start winning games too which may be tough) and to maintain our cap flexibility for next offseason. This is not the year to be spending big. I'm sure we'll still be left standing at the alter next year but you miss 100% of the chances you don't take. I cant imagine too many teams being able to fix multiple max money players next offseason. That is a huge selling point to FA. They get to pick their teammates. However, we know where we have fallen short in the past. It was our culture and the supporting cast. So, how do you fix that? The culture thing is tough because of decades of shitty handling of this team. But hopefully this new regime gets a better rep. Also, we need these kids to develop fast particularly Toppin and Barrett. I think that can be accomplished. That is why I said I would target 1 year vets this year like last year.
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
I could be wrong here, but wouldn’t it make sense to trade for a guy like Kemba who can help guys like Barrett and Toppin? I feel like trading for a guy like him may be able to attract a FA next year and makes $10M less than Westbrook. I’m just not totally sure if they sign FVV if he would be able to attract a big time FA.
Kemba is a guy that can attract another player. Absolutely. But of you trade for Kemba then what are you giving up? If it is just Kemba on your roster and nothing else then it really isn't all that attractive.
Doesn’t Boston supposedly want to shed salary? A Randle trade could make sense there and they don’t need Knox as they have Tatum and Jaylen Brown as Forwards, maybe DSJ or Frank goes with Randle in a Walker trade? Also could move one of the Mavs picks or something? I don’t know exactly what.
I also am very confused with the Hayward thing as to why it’s a sign/ trade if he declined the $35M figured he’d be a UFA and can go anywhere he wants as a UFA
yesterday went. This FA class is not good. Even Hayward at 4/100 or whatever is not a deal i think the knicks should make.
If we can help a taem shed salary, great. If we cant then i guess overpay guys on one year deals. Hopefully get a couple Marcus Morris type assets and not Bobby Portis.
I like Burks, def need a vet PG and of course id love to move Randle, but outside of this message board you havent heard a damn thing about that, haha.
I also am very confused with the Hayward thing as to why it’s a sign/ trade if he declined the $35M figured he’d be a UFA and can go anywhere he wants as a UFA
Indiana has no cap space. Technically they are over the cap.
Things did pick up in the end. I have this sense of dread however... that we're saving our cap space for something big. Johnny Wall might enter into the equation now, aside from Russ. If Rose is truly saving our cap space for next offseason, then great. But we still need a point guard, there's no way Thibs will be satisfied heading into the season with Quickley, Frankie, and DSJ. I just hope it'll be a smart move, fingers crossed.
Thibs is why I don't think we sit & wait for next year. He didn't sign up to coach the roster as currently constructed. And,I would imagine he was promised a roster that could compete for a playoff spot. It's why I'd be amazed if we fill the roster with players like last year. Myself, I have mixed emotions about pursuing a Westbrook,Hayward or even a Wall. But,continuing the wishing & hoping until next FA season just pushes the problem under the rug for another season. They need a quality vet to help them get into the playoffs as to change the entire league perception of the Knicks. Without changing that,it's same old,same old ,year after year!
but there was no way they guaranteed him anything. I mean first of all they had no idea who they could get. Supposedly Thibs really wanted to coach the knicks, perhaps he was more worried bout trying to get some assurances that he wont be fired in 2 seasons during a rebuild.
Im all for winning vs tanking. I was on board with Paul, i can live with hayward (but 4/100 is a lot for him), but guys like Russ/Wall dont make sense. You need to make sure you are both making the team better short term and long term. Russ stunts the growth of the young guys. I like Russ but he needs the ball all the time, that will hurt RJ and Obi. Wall you have no idea how healthy he even is.
he is a descent vet, good shooter and wont be expensive. I wouldnt mind a guy like Reggie Jackson or Teague, but Augustine is the better shooter. I know its not going to really move the needle but i think we end up with Augustine, Melo, and a vet big (I like Baynes). The key is guys like RJ and Mitch taking steps and Obi being the right pick. Those are the first steps to becoming respectable
but there was no way they guaranteed him anything. I mean first of all they had no idea who they could get. Supposedly Thibs really wanted to coach the knicks, perhaps he was more worried bout trying to get some assurances that he wont be fired in 2 seasons during a rebuild.
Im all for winning vs tanking. I was on board with Paul, i can live with hayward (but 4/100 is a lot for him), but guys like Russ/Wall dont make sense. You need to make sure you are both making the team better short term and long term. Russ stunts the growth of the young guys. I like Russ but he needs the ball all the time, that will hurt RJ and Obi. Wall you have no idea how healthy he even is.
I’m not saying that I want Russ, his contract and age scares me. But I don’t get this idea that people keep saying about stunting other players growth and that he needs the ball all the time. Everywhere he’s been, getting other players involved has not been an issue whatsoever. People act like he’s just a chucker. You don’t average close to a triple double because you’re an unwilling passer. Is he going to control the ball most of the time? Welll yeah, he’s the point guard. This isn’t Melo here. Westbrook is not a ball stopper. I get not thinking the contract this late in his career is a good fit for where this team is currently at. What I don’t get is the idea that RJ and Toppin will somehow suffer and not develop or be involved with the offense
The Hayward deal right they are offering 3 yrs at 70 million if the Indy deal falls through.
Also sounds like the are looking for a similar deal to last year for Pope like a 1 yr 16 million with a team option.
The Hayward deal right they are offering 3 yrs at 70 million if the Indy deal falls through.
Also sounds like the are looking for a similar deal to last year for Pope like a 1 yr 16 million with a team option.
2 questions I have about this besides why.
1. In the NBA can we front load a contract this year to make next year's cap number very low?
2. Would he be a nice piece to attract FA next year or would he be a trade piece to bring in another top player in 2021?
but there was no way they guaranteed him anything. I mean first of all they had no idea who they could get. Supposedly Thibs really wanted to coach the knicks, perhaps he was more worried bout trying to get some assurances that he wont be fired in 2 seasons during a rebuild.
Im all for winning vs tanking. I was on board with Paul, i can live with hayward (but 4/100 is a lot for him), but guys like Russ/Wall dont make sense. You need to make sure you are both making the team better short term and long term. Russ stunts the growth of the young guys. I like Russ but he needs the ball all the time, that will hurt RJ and Obi. Wall you have no idea how healthy he even is.
Maybe guarantee is too strong a word,but I'm sure there were assurances of a competitive roster.Yes, he wanted to coach the Knicks, but he had other offers as well. So,if Leon,wanted Thibs he didn't just promise him he wouldn't fire him. Yes, Westbrook/Wall are both ball dominant guards but that doesn't mean RJ & Obi wouldn't get their shots. On the contrary,both are great ball distributors & top assist guys.In an ideal world,sure I'd love a 27-28 year old Paul & I'd give him the keys to the franchise. But,he's not out there & even if he was, past history shows he wouldn't come to the Knicks.So,like I said above, if you don't change the perception of who the Knicks are, we'll be wishing & hoping for another 10 years! If you can change the perception,you have to do it!
Is not getting traded in a salary dump. Only CHA/ ATL have the cap space to do it and they are not taking Julius Randle unless the Knicks include a pick. Just shows how bad last offseason really was. Hopefully they move him somewhere though.
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
Is not getting traded in a salary dump. Only CHA/ ATL have the cap space to do it and they are not taking Julius Randle unless the Knicks include a pick. Just shows how bad last offseason really was. Hopefully they move him somewhere though.
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
If FVV only wants $16-$18M, definitely worth it to offer him 4/80 if an extra $2-$4M would pry him from Toronto. If Randle is not traded, fine but can’t have that $ on the bench. If they can sign FVV, it’s better than trading assets for a PG, but FVV may not be that guy who attracts UFA to come next summer.
that doesnt mean he is a chucker, but it means he has the ball all the time. Most of his assists are drive and dishes. Not that it isnt a valuable skill im just not sure it helps young guys like RJ and Obi who should have the ball more. I mean russ is a scorer and he is usually in the top 5 in FGA, sure he was/is one of the better players in the league so of course he shoots a lot, BUT is that what we need when we are trying to groom young players. We want them to shoot to.
id be happy to take back a player who fits better. My best example is Randle for Cody Zeller. Not saying that move but something like that could work. Trade him to a team who needs a bit more scoring.
Is not getting traded in a salary dump. Only CHA/ ATL have the cap space to do it and they are not taking Julius Randle unless the Knicks include a pick. Just shows how bad last offseason really was. Hopefully they move him somewhere though.
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
If FVV only wants $16-$18M, definitely worth it to offer him 4/80 if an extra $2-$4M would pry him from Toronto. If Randle is not traded, fine but can’t have that $ on the bench. If they can sign FVV, it’s better than trading assets for a PG, but FVV may not be that guy who attracts UFA to come next summer.
All the writer in Toronto say they love VanVleet for 16 million per but don't want to pay him 22-25 million.
If I am the Knicks I go big on a 3 years deal like 3 yrs for 70 million.
Could do a option on year 4.
Is not getting traded in a salary dump. Only CHA/ ATL have the cap space to do it and they are not taking Julius Randle unless the Knicks include a pick. Just shows how bad last offseason really was. Hopefully they move him somewhere though.
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
If FVV only wants $16-$18M, definitely worth it to offer him 4/80 if an extra $2-$4M would pry him from Toronto. If Randle is not traded, fine but can’t have that $ on the bench. If they can sign FVV, it’s better than trading assets for a PG, but FVV may not be that guy who attracts UFA to come next summer.
All the writer in Toronto say they love VanVleet for 16 million per but don't want to pay him 22-25 million.
If I am the Knicks I go big on a 3 years deal like 3 yrs for 70 million.
Could do a option on year 4.
I mean yeah, FVV for 5/80-90 would be amazing to stay in Toronto(16-18.) but I do feel like if they signed him for 5 years, it’d have to be in $20-$22M range since it’s buying years of his FA. If FVV stays in Toronto, his best bet would be a 3 year deal so he can get more as a 29 year old. If I’m NYK, I offer 3/60 easily and maybe 4/80-84.
My top two goals for this team are to fix this culture (yes, that does mean start winning games too which may be tough) and to maintain our cap flexibility for next offseason. This is not the year to be spending big. I'm sure we'll still be left standing at the alter next year but you miss 100% of the chances you don't take. I cant imagine too many teams being able to fix multiple max money players next offseason. That is a huge selling point to FA. They get to pick their teammates. However, we know where we have fallen short in the past. It was our culture and the supporting cast. So, how do you fix that? The culture thing is tough because of decades of shitty handling of this team. But hopefully this new regime gets a better rep. Also, we need these kids to develop fast particularly Toppin and Barrett. I think that can be accomplished. That is why I said I would target 1 year vets this year like last year.
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
Certainly worse ways they could go. What’s one more year of shit and at least now they have a good HC and some young players we can all get behind. I’d be excited for the season but I’d like to see a PG brought in that can actually facilitate at an above average level.
And he has a very good year here under Thibs. I think he can be a valuable player with the right coaching. He does a lot of important things well and you can cover up his D since he’s not a stay at home center like Kanter. Randle is a PF.
Not that I’d shed a tear if Randle was traded but as mentioned there likely isn’t a market for him. Maybe we build him up this season and deal him at the deadline when his value is higher.
I’ll be excited just to watch RJ, Obi and Mitch and a good HC. Like the giants I do think there’s a light at the end of this long tunnel. Might be a year away though.
Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Dump after the year that is (unless you need his cash for someone special). I don’t see someone special this year. Wasting an asset at this point makes absolutely no sense to me.
Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
of me wants them to sign both FVV and Hayward and kinda just go for it while still developing youth. Both guys are shooters and passers, so they shouldn't hinder development of anyone.
The alternative is to just be shitty next year and hope for another high pick, which may be what we end up doing and might be wiser in the long run.
Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
of me wants them to sign both FVV and Hayward and kinda just go for it while still developing youth. Both guys are shooters and passers, so they shouldn't hinder development of anyone.
The alternative is to just be shitty next year and hope for another high pick, which may be what we end up doing and might be wiser in the long run.
Even if they were to ONLY sign FVV, not Hayward which is fine, it still can help RJ and Toppin. Easily can remain a top 10 pick but help the youth as well. If Randle isn’t moveable yet fine and possibly Toppin can either play some SF, or Randle play some C and have Mitch back up. Give Randle 8-10 mins a night at C, and 10-12 at PF. Have Toppin play some of both positions. Knox also needs this year still to develop and hopefully Kenny Payne saves Knox. This is the last year Knox has before he’s done here imo and Payne was brought in partially to try and avoid that.
Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
Only one year deals please. I believe if done correctly we would have 70-75% of our CAP free for next years FA class. Keep feeding the future guys. We waited already so do it right!
Augustine. I’ll settle for Reggie Jackson or Teague I guess. Neither are great shooters though. Teague prolly a better run the offense guy and Jackson the better scorer.
Weird the FVV market is so quiet. TOR must not be offering what he wants. Most likely using the Knicks as leverage, but maybe for once we are sticking to our number. Tired of being used by players to get more money where they actually want to play.
So we are just about out of options. Guess the tank is back on for another year. I liked the idea of fielding a competitive team, but nothing really worked out. Not blaming the Knicks, id rather this then them going out and adding Russ and some other overpaid aging star with a couple years left.
So we are just about out of options. Guess the tank is back on for another year. I liked the idea of fielding a competitive team, but nothing really worked out. Not blaming the Knicks, id rather this then them going out and adding Russ and some other overpaid aging star with a couple years left.
Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
Georgia football, Kentucky basketball.
2012 Jon would have a field day with this.
2020 Jon is saving his energy.
Really? Not the thread for this, but go on. I’ve been a Kentucky basketball fan since elementary school in the 90s, been a Georgia football fan since my parents got a summer house in Georgia and started to watch Georgia basketball even though they sucked but they’re my 2nd basketball team.
to run the point then selfish ballhog Payton for another year as Berman is suggesting can happen. I cannot watch 70 games of Payton/Randle dominating the offense while freezing out RJ and Toppin
frank/DSJ
Bullock/Burks/quickley
RJ/Knox
Toppin/randle
Mitch/Ed Davis
This is...a bad roster. Hayward helps a lot at the wing. Moving Randle is also a must at this point.
This is a 15 to 20 win team.
Randle and DSJ are big time minus players they destroy continuity.
I don't want to see another Randle's spin move into 2 defender turnover again.
At the end of the day, we'll be the only ones left with any significant space. The only game in town to absorb those big PG numbers. Will Thibs finally crack a smile?
we haven't gone after Bogdanovic. On July 13th, 2017, he signed with the Kings. On July 14th, Perry signed from the Kings to the Knicks. Kinda weird timing, but you figure Perry had a say in bringing him over.
The cap floor doesn't kick in til the end of the season so they don't need to do anything before the season starts technically.
no but still seems weird they are leaving their space wide open and not doing anything
I hear you, but there's still plenty of time. I'm hoping they are more creative than just bringing in KCP for 1 year 15 mil. They should call the Hornets and offer to take on Batum for a 1st, for example.
Didn’t even offer FVV or meet with him. To me that’s inexcusable. Make him take less or Raptors pay more.
And if they planned on sitting out free agency- where have them been on these salary cap dump trades? The Knicks are by far the worst team at properly utilizing cap space. It’s hard to fathom.
But keep preaching cap flexibility...working out great.
Didn’t even offer FVV or meet with him. To me that’s inexcusable. Make him take less or Raptors pay more.
And if they planned on sitting out free agency- where have them been on these salary cap dump trades? The Knicks are by far the worst team at properly utilizing cap space. It’s hard to fathom.
But keep preaching cap flexibility...working out great.
That is why i am in favor of taking salary dumps even if they drag for 2 or 3 years because nobody is coming here in FA anyway. You take the picks with the terrible contract and use the cap space to acquire assets at least instead of signing these pointless 1 year deal with mediocre vets year after year that gets you nowhere.
A deal like Wall for 2 or 3 unprotected 1st round picks i would do that in a heartbeat. Yeah it kills the cap going forward but its the assets that matter .
Who is offering wall for a handful of unprotected picks?
i mean what were people expecting? If they signed Hayward to that deal everyone would be going crazy about the overpay! Same with FVV since we would have had to pay him prolly 25 mill per to get him to leave TOR (at least). Would i have liked Augstine, sure, but its def not the end of the world we didnt pay him 7 per.
Knick fans love to say "just do a real rebuild, stop overpaying solid but not great players to huge money!". Then they dont sign Hayward and FVV and its "Same ole knicks".
The idea that the Wiz are going to attach a bunch of assets...
to Wall is fiction. For just a second think why would WAS to do that? Capspace? Who was the last big FA to sign in WAS? They want to keep Beal, so they are going to make their team worse along with trading away multiple picks just to save money? A russ for wall deal at least made some sense (although barely) but they arent trading him Randle and DSJ. They have no reason to.
Just an example if something like that became an option
i would want the knicks to jump all over that and not worry how it affects the capspace over the next 3 years since nobody is coming here anyway.
Anyway, This is shaping up to be another Scott Perry offseason almost identical to last year. I have no idea why he wasnt fired along with Mills when Leon Rose came aboard.
Perry has never had a winning season anywhere hes been and has no idea how to construct a roster. He brings in Vets who take playing time away from the kids who need it instead of bringing in Vets who can help compliment them and help their game . He keeps capspace open for FA who never come instead of using it to take salary dumps to acquire assets.
When you have a terrible team you should prioritize and focus on development and that means giving young guys who are playing well in the Gleague a shot or young FA who need a change of scenery. Instead he signs older mediocre FA who only care about getting theirs while the young guys are either buried on the bench or frozen out on the court.
Truthfully it all goes back to Dolan anyway. Sam Presti was willing to listen and OKC was willing to let him walk but he rushed to sign Leon Rose and keep all his stooges at MSG who have been giving him the same shitty advice for 20 years instead . This team will never win a damn thing with Dolan . He will always hire the wrong people and even when he hires someone competent like Walsh, he has his cronies there to undermine him anyway
The second COVID wave will likely turn this 72 game schedule into a 50-60 game schedule. Perfect opportunity to throw the young guys out there and wait for next year’s stronger draft and free agency. I know it’s the same old song, but if they strike out next offseason they’ll get more aggressive in trades or something and field a competitive team. If we were expecting a full season with fans in the arena, they’d probably be doing that right now.
Also, keep in mind Toppin is NBA ready at 22 years old, at least offensively - unlike Frank, Knox and, to a lesser extent, RJ when they were rookies. He’ll play 30+ minutes and average 18 ppg.
And as I type this I see Melo’s in Portland and Scrub Payton is back on the cheap - even better.
is Bogdan, but im not sure how big the offer has to be for SAC not to match. Wonder if we could just work out a trade with SAC, i mean they obviously arent super interested in him returning. Wonder if they would like to save some money next season by dumping Joseph's 12 mill?
It's actually a pretty decent frontcourt. But easily the worst backcourt in the NBA. Probably the worst starting PG AND SG, which is actually impressive.
2 man game where theu freeze out the rest of the offense because they are extremely selfish basketball players ? This is horrible for RJ and OBI development
Payton just doesn't help the young guys at all, can't shoot and doesn't have a great feel for the game. I would've hoped they'd make a bigger push for another vet or jump into the trade market. If this was the plan, they should've made the deal LA did for Schroder.
I was also hoping (still am hoping I suppose) that they can find a way to offload Randle somehow. He's blocking Toppin and he drags everyone else down when he's on the court.
Where's the creativity? Essentially no one else has the cap space for a Bogdan offer. Why not see you can steal a good player like Bogdan with nothing to lose if SAC matches.
It does seem like we're trending towards going to go star hunting again next summer so that should go well.
is that your money gets held up until the team decides to match or not. Its why you dont see it very often. Now i mean what else are spending the money on, but still im guessing thats why they arent just giving him an offer.
Im just not ready to trash this FO right now. Do i want them to move Randle, of course. Do i want them to attach assets to move Randle, no. And im guessing the line of teams that want Randle is pretty short. Did i want a Hayward or FVV, yes but at 25-30 per for them its a hard pill to swallow. Especially if it wasnt going to be combined with another fairly large move.
Lastly, why do we need KCP? What is the difference between KCP, Bullock, and Burks? There has to be a team out there who would attach some young player at the end of their bench if we take a 15 mill expiring from them. At least the young player could be some lucky find, lol.
I'm not really sure what people expected. Really the only other alternatives would have been to overpay for one or some combo of FVV/Hayward/Malik Beasley, which I feel like would have had a short term boost but probably hurts the team long term.
Giles. Could have huge upside. Give him minutes and see.
Honestly, if we can't be competitive this year, I don't see why not. Take a chance on some of those guys. No need to dumpster dive like we did last year and just hand out a bunch of one-year deals to middling veterans. Take a chance on a few young guys. Giles, Skal, Thon Maker...
Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
10m
Appears the Knicks may have signed Elf Payton using their room exception, which means NY still has upwards of $30 million in cap space (more than twice as much as any other team in the NBA).
Will be interesting to see if they make a run at restricted free agent Bogdan Bogdanovic
We dodged a bullet with Carmela. Can't imagine Thibs would be happy with just Elf and the rest of the ragged point crew, but I'm fine with saving the bulk of our load for next offseason. On to training camp...
Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
10m
Appears the Knicks may have signed Elf Payton using their room exception, which means NY still has upwards of $30 million in cap space (more than twice as much as any other team in the NBA).
Am so confused how these exceptions work but that’s good.
Will be interesting to see if they make a run at restricted free agent Bogdan Bogdanovic
Teams can only use the exceptions (MLE, Room, and BAE) if they go over the cap for that given offseason. We'd have to eat into our cap first before being allowed use of these exceptions. Unless things have changed for this particular offseason.
Teams can only use the exceptions (MLE, Room, and BAE) if they go over the cap for that given offseason. We'd have to eat into our cap first before being allowed use of these exceptions. Unless things have changed for this particular offseason.
Can't you trade for one? The NBA is so complex with their rules.
Teams can only use the exceptions (MLE, Room, and BAE) if they go over the cap for that given offseason. We'd have to eat into our cap first before being allowed use of these exceptions. Unless things have changed for this particular offseason.
Can't you trade for one? The NBA is so complex with their rules.
Yes, the traded player exception... plus the disabled player exception (Klay), Larry Bird exception, minimum salary exception... indeed, complicated.
Teams can only use the exceptions (MLE, Room, and BAE) if they go over the cap for that given offseason. We'd have to eat into our cap first before being allowed use of these exceptions. Unless things have changed for this particular offseason.
Yeah i think you need to use all your cap space first, so if it is being reported it is for the room exception, maybe the Knicks have a move where they are using all their space?
They probably agreed to the number that equals the exception if they go over, they use it if not just pay him the same amount out of cap space. Just a matter of semantics and sequencing.
They probably agreed to the number that equals the exception if they go over, they use it if not just pay him the same amount out of cap space. Just a matter of semantics and sequencing.
This. It’s not a separate designation or anything like that. They only use the exception if they need to.
At Boogie Cousins. A one-year deal to rebuild value helps both.
The Knicks are basically the only team with cap space left. I suspect several teams will need money to sign additional FA- the Knicks can facilitate by taking expiring deals plus picks to allow signings.
of all the new Knicks front office guys getting paid a fortune to bring in Ed Davis, Alec Burks, Nerlens Noel, Elfrid Payton and Reggie Bullock. Probably for the best though.
Another year and they have no good shooters and the worst backcourt in the league. Don’t have a top 40 point guard on the roster. To bring back Payton is an awful decision.
If they want to tank to this year- that’s fine and probably a smart move. But where were they for the salary cap dump trades? So they either misjudged free agency really badly or they are opposed to those moves for some reason.
The Knicks and their fans have a weird fascination with cap space. I really wished they stopped focusing on that and started to bring in good players.
What salary dump trades for picks did the Knicks miss?
Horford was the only one I can think of and that was terrible value.
They did add shooting and probably will add a bit more.
It seems like they would have had to attach some draft capital or youth to Randle right now that they didn’t want to do. It still is possible Randle is used in a high priced PG trade. NYK aren’t done yet, but is possible the plan was trade all along?
The Knicks and their fans have a weird fascination with cap space. I really wished they stopped focusing on that and started to bring in good players.
Yep, I think it goes back to all those years we were in salary cap hell - now that we have space, we only want to give long-term deals to Hall of Famers. They’ll get aggressive next offseason - no way they sit out two straight free agencies with all this money.
Another shitty thing is that our three PGs are all still young and are
Or keep 33 and do it there. There were plenty of interesting options at both spots. I like Quickley and thing he can be productive in the nba but this orginization has been thirsting for a pg like water in the desert for years.
RE: I don't get why the hell they didnt take a true pg at #25
Or keep 33 and do it there. There were plenty of interesting options at both spots. I like Quickley and thing he can be productive in the nba but this orginization has been thirsting for a pg like water in the desert for years.
I felt they passed up PG at 8 and 25 because they were going to fill the need in FA.
But it sounds like they made zero effort after any of the available.
I worry that Westbrook or Wall could be a deal they are trying to make.
I would be fine with Conley but why would utah dump the salary now?
Maybe at the deadline.
Or is it? I'm cool with this, but is Thibs? I still have this feeling Rose and Wes will wait for Houston to blink with Russ.
Honestly I think thats the plan. No way Rose and co came here to add this pile of shmeg and call it a day.
I think you give them too much credit.
They thought they could walk in and because it was Rose and company attract top talent.
I don't believe there was a plan past that and I am afraid they will get desperate once the L's build up and Fans get restless.
And here comes Westbrook or worse Wall.
To continue to draft high and keep our powder dry. No top fifty player is going to sign here until we have a semblance of a shot to win.
Van Vleet with Gordon Hayward would make us what exactly? A fifth seed in the east? So, don’t think we’re attractive enough yet until we hit on a young guy, which I believe we don’t have a potential superstar on the roster yet. Players develop however, and I think we need to grit it out another couple years, maintaining space to pair with our homegrown players.
Or is it? I'm cool with this, but is Thibs? I still have this feeling Rose and Wes will wait for Houston to blink with Russ.
Honestly I think thats the plan. No way Rose and co came here to add this pile of shmeg and call it a day.
I think you give them too much credit.
They thought they could walk in and because it was Rose and company attract top talent.
I don't believe there was a plan past that and I am afraid they will get desperate once the L's build up and Fans get restless.
And here comes Westbrook or worse Wall.
Just stop. What top talent did you think Rose and company thought they could attract but didn’t? This FA class was shit and reports are they never made an offfer to VanVleet. They had interest in Hayward but there’s no way they were planning on giving him the contract Charlotte did. If they did they should all be fired on the spot. So again, what “top talent” do you think they thought was a lock because of who they are and got shot down by? They did the right thing and passed on giving average players elite money.
just admit it, YOU wanted them to sign top talent. Whether that actually existed isn’t important I guess...
Another year and they have no good shooters and the worst backcourt in the league. Don’t have a top 40 point guard on the roster. To bring back Payton is an awful decision.
If they want to tank to this year- that’s fine and probably a smart move. But where were they for the salary cap dump trades? So they either misjudged free agency really badly or they are opposed to those moves for some reason.
The Knicks and their fans have a weird fascination with cap space. I really wished they stopped focusing on that and started to bring in good players.
to be fair they drafted 2 guys who can shoot the 3 and burks waa 42% from 3 laat year..
the Payton signing sucks becauae i hooed for an upgrade but he is not thebworst player in theworld..
All the negativity is just from decades of bullshit.
I wanted to respond many times to people complaining but who am I to say they shouldn't feel a certain way? We are all frustrated with this team. I get it.
I had this argument with a friend. He loves FVV and said we needed to get him. I said no we don't need to get him. His argument was that he would get the young kids to play better, is a great player, and fans in NY would fall in love with how he plays. I said I agree with all of that but if you sign him and Haward or not a legit star then you are stuck in basketball purgatory imo and that is worse than basketball hell. Imo, we give it one more year to try to land a big fish or 2 (2 is more likely than one imo) next FA period. We continue to sign guys to 1 year deals and focus on developing the youth again. And while FVV would be great for this team, is he a guy that moves the needle for a FA next year to come here? I don't think so. I think the odds are greater to have 2 max spots open and ha e 2 FA pair up then to get one guy with balls to say let me be the guy that can turn that franchise around. If we strike out next year then we can start taking on multi year contracts for much better assets. There is nothing wrong with waiting 1 more year and going all in. This draft class was garbage compared to next year so why completely take yourself out of at least a shot for some lackluster players? And please spare me the "FA aren't coming here" routine. We all get it. We've been burned before. But if you gave up after 5 different girls saying no does that mean you're gonna go join a church and become a priest or are you going to keep trying until you find the right match? You only have to get one person to say yes before everything changes for the better. The goal this year is development. That means both our young kids and our culture.
is the improvement of RJ, Mitch and Toppin, if that leads to wins great, if it doesnt great, but if we see Randle dominating the ball i am going to be pissed..
He needs to come off the bench, he can be the bench scoring
is the improvement of RJ, Mitch and Toppin, if that leads to wins great, if it doesnt great, but if we see Randle dominating the ball i am going to be pissed..
He needs to come off the bench, he can be the bench scoring
I still think Randle for Conley makes so much sense. We take on the bigger contract while getting a PG that can help develop these bigs.
and i know Quickley was recruited as a point and played off the ball at Kentucky, but does he have any chance of being a Point in the NBA, or is he strictly combo/2
I actually like some of the bench pieces on this team
I’m terribly tired of losing and at some point the Knicks will have to learn to win and be competitive if they want to attract talent. However, I think a lot of people would also be upset if they gave out these kinds of contracts to Van Vleet, Hayward, etc. It’s hard to take another “tank” season, and I would love a real PG to distribute to our young guys, but sometimes not making any moves is the best way to go - not a Knick specialty in years past.
Hoping we see growth from the young guys, get one more high pick in a much better draft, and make a move in what should be a better FA class.
is the improvement of RJ, Mitch and Toppin, if that leads to wins great, if it doesnt great, but if we see Randle dominating the ball i am going to be pissed..
He needs to come off the bench, he can be the bench scoring
Totally agree. Need to let the young players sink or swim. But without question they are entering the year with the worst roster in the league.
Any news on Bogdan? Or throwing a loaded poisoned offer at Ingram? Hopefully they can help execute a trade with the cap space and get a pick
in season.
Or is it? I'm cool with this, but is Thibs? I still have this feeling Rose and Wes will wait for Houston to blink with Russ.
Honestly I think thats the plan. No way Rose and co came here to add this pile of shmeg and call it a day.
I think you give them too much credit.
They thought they could walk in and because it was Rose and company attract top talent.
I don't believe there was a plan past that and I am afraid they will get desperate once the L's build up and Fans get restless.
And here comes Westbrook or worse Wall.
Just stop. What top talent did you think Rose and company thought they could attract but didn’t? This FA class was shit and reports are they never made an offfer to VanVleet. They had interest in Hayward but there’s no way they were planning on giving him the contract Charlotte did. If they did they should all be fired on the spot. So again, what “top talent” do you think they thought was a lock because of who they are and got shot down by? They did the right thing and passed on giving average players elite money.
just admit it, YOU wanted them to sign top talent. Whether that actually existed isn’t important I guess...
I wanted VanVleet and Christian Wood both under 26 and hitting their prime.
But my point is I don't think there is a cohesive rebuild going on.
If Toppin turns out to be and all-star that can lift a team I will admit I am wrong.
After only hitting on Morris in FA last year that turned into a pick.
This year it looks like they made no effort to go after any of the good young talent available.
They could have used the cap space to add salary for picks but failed there also.
All I am saying I have zero confidence in this front office and believe they are over their heads and have done nothing to show me different.
At the end of the day the media will spin this as a failure by the front office, but I could not be happier with the off-season so far. That changes for me if they trade for Wall or Westbrook. I wouldn’t mind bogdnovic on a 1 year $25 mil contract (an overpay on purpose to limit it to 1 year. The front office recognized that this was a very weak free agent class.
I am more then fine giving Frank and even Smith Jr. 25-30 mins a night as a final chance to see what they have. I am very bullish on Frank showing significant improvement this year, not sure about smith jr. I think it’s mostly mental with him and maybe good coaching can help that, but ultimately he probably gets traded. I think Payton is signed because he is a pretty good distributor and can help in the starting line up, but I would expect he only sees 15-20 mins a night.
My ideal rotation:
PG - Payton/Frank
SG - Burks/quickly/Bullock
SF - Barrett/Iggy
PF - Toppin/Knox
C - Mitch/Noels
Alec Burks - shot 41 percent from 3, 46 percent overall, 1 year 6 million - can give solid mins every night and can def get another 2nd rounder at trade deadline for a contender
Norlen Noel’s - still only 26, while I think we know he isn’t going to be a superstar, he def showed significant improvement last year. Scores very efficiently and plays very good defense, he will be a good backup center and is worthy of a 1 year look.
Not sure why bullock was picked up, maybe for future trade bait. I am assuming Ed Davis and Randle are def traded before the beginnng of the year.
As long as these guys play hard I am fine with a 15-20 win season if the young guys are improving and getting bigger minutes. We have assets to make a big trade, hopefully bradley Beale and we will have a very high lottery pick in a stacked draft. Additionally with Porzingis starting the year not playing and the West being so deep, it’s not impossible for that Dallas pick to fall into the lottery. That’s how deep te west is although the kla thompson injury hurts GS chances.
Or is it? I'm cool with this, but is Thibs? I still have this feeling Rose and Wes will wait for Houston to blink with Russ.
Honestly I think thats the plan. No way Rose and co came here to add this pile of shmeg and call it a day.
I think you give them too much credit.
They thought they could walk in and because it was Rose and company attract top talent.
I don't believe there was a plan past that and I am afraid they will get desperate once the L's build up and Fans get restless.
And here comes Westbrook or worse Wall.
Just stop. What top talent did you think Rose and company thought they could attract but didn’t? This FA class was shit and reports are they never made an offfer to VanVleet. They had interest in Hayward but there’s no way they were planning on giving him the contract Charlotte did. If they did they should all be fired on the spot. So again, what “top talent” do you think they thought was a lock because of who they are and got shot down by? They did the right thing and passed on giving average players elite money.
just admit it, YOU wanted them to sign top talent. Whether that actually existed isn’t important I guess...
I wanted VanVleet and Christian Wood both under 26 and hitting their prime.
But my point is I don't think there is a cohesive rebuild going on.
If Toppin turns out to be and all-star that can lift a team I will admit I am wrong.
After only hitting on Morris in FA last year that turned into a pick.
This year it looks like they made no effort to go after any of the good young talent available. They could have used the cap space to add salary for picks but failed there also.
All I am saying I have zero confidence in this front office and believe they are over their heads and have done nothing to show me different.
Please point out where they failed at taking on salary to add picks. You are completely missing the picture here. Why the fuck would we take on multiple years of a bad contract for picks when those picks will be sure to suck instead of keeping our cap space open for next offseason? Imo, your plan would have been fine LAST year. This year it is out of the question to clog up our cap space for the 2021 FAs.
also give Bogdanovic a 2 year 50 mil offer with the second year as a team option, or something like that. Hard to believe the Kings match, or maybe we work out a trade.
Apparently Giannis and Bogdan are close, which also can't hurt anything.
Or is it? I'm cool with this, but is Thibs? I still have this feeling Rose and Wes will wait for Houston to blink with Russ.
Honestly I think thats the plan. No way Rose and co came here to add this pile of shmeg and call it a day.
I think you give them too much credit.
They thought they could walk in and because it was Rose and company attract top talent.
I don't believe there was a plan past that and I am afraid they will get desperate once the L's build up and Fans get restless.
And here comes Westbrook or worse Wall.
Just stop. What top talent did you think Rose and company thought they could attract but didn’t? This FA class was shit and reports are they never made an offfer to VanVleet. They had interest in Hayward but there’s no way they were planning on giving him the contract Charlotte did. If they did they should all be fired on the spot. So again, what “top talent” do you think they thought was a lock because of who they are and got shot down by? They did the right thing and passed on giving average players elite money.
just admit it, YOU wanted them to sign top talent. Whether that actually existed isn’t important I guess...
I wanted VanVleet and Christian Wood both under 26 and hitting their prime.
But my point is I don't think there is a cohesive rebuild going on.
If Toppin turns out to be and all-star that can lift a team I will admit I am wrong.
After only hitting on Morris in FA last year that turned into a pick.
This year it looks like they made no effort to go after any of the good young talent available.
They could have used the cap space to add salary for picks but failed there also.
All I am saying I have zero confidence in this front office and believe they are over their heads and have done nothing to show me different.
Please point out where they failed at taking on salary to add picks. You are completely missing the picture here. Why the fuck would we take on multiple years of a bad contract for picks when those picks will be sure to suck instead of keeping our cap space open for next offseason? Imo, your plan would have been fine LAST year. This year it is out of the question to clog up our cap space for the 2021 FAs.
I am saying they never use the cap space correctly and we either kick it down the road for the next big year or sign mid tier players with little upside.
The next FA big year is not coming for the Knicks until they get some young viable talent.
Which I am not confident Rose and company are qualified to choose either in FA or the draft.
You keep bringing up old shit and then criticizing the new regime. Listen, I am not all gung ho on Rose and company yet but how can you keep saying things like the only thing that worked out last year was Morris and "they" don't use their cap situation the right way. Rose and company have just started. You can't lay past issues at their feet. Stop confusing the two.
I keep seeing this everywhere so I have to ask. Who exactlly are the Knicks targeting in 2021 free agency?
I would be focused on trying to get another pick in the draft rather then free agency.
It's a year away so why would we have a list if who specifically we are focused on and even if we did why would that be public? You still haven't answered my question of how this team fucked up by missing out on contracts dumped.
When the FA players are better you'll have more options for dumps. Anything you are complaining about this year can be done next year which would give us a better payout to take in contracts. You are being irrational and emotional about the Knicks actions so far.
I keep seeing this everywhere so I have to ask. Who exactlly are the Knicks targeting in 2021 free agency?
I would be focused on trying to get another pick in the draft rather then free agency.
It's really top heavy. Giannis, probably Kawhi, Paul George, and Lebron. Then there's a decent sized second tier with Oladipo, Gobert, Jrue Holiday, Lowry.
The real prize is Giannis who is still only 25. Tough to see any of the others in the top group leaving (pending what happens with LAC this year), and Giannis might not either.
You keep bringing up old shit and then criticizing the new regime. Listen, I am not all gung ho on Rose and company yet but how can you keep saying things like the only thing that worked out last year was Morris and "they" don't use their cap situation the right way. Rose and company have just started. You can't lay past issues at their feet. Stop confusing the two.
Very true.
I was not a fan of the Rose hire and the Tibs hire so maybe I am projecting the past failures but last 2 off season have shown more of the same.
Listen I am not going anywhere and will still root and watch.
Hopefully these kids surprise and something breaks right.
they obviously had numbers in their head for guys like FVV and Hayward and they got more then that, or in the case of FVV prolly wanted more then he got to leave TOR. I was on board with improving the team, wanted CP3, wanted FVV, was on board with hayward in that 3/70 range, etc.. but it didnt work. Im glad they didnt pay hayward 30 mill a year. Wood got a reasonable deal, but no point in signing wood after drafting toppin. Also would it shock anyone if Wood isnt good next year? Not exactly a sure thing.
I think they should make a run at Bogdan. Perhaps there is still a team looking to shed a bit of salary due to luxury or cap, and we can pick up a small asset.
I don't know if that is even being considered. Most of the moves so far have been heavily rooted in familiarity with the new regime.
Thibs - CAA
Toppin - CAA
Quickley - Kentucky
Noel - Kentucky
Burks - Utah
Even Payton who is a familiar face is repped by CAA
Obviously there is a big trend with CAA/Kentucky, and Randle happens to have both of those ties. Clearly we all want to see him gone, it is probably in the best interest of developing the young guys on the team, but it seems to go against everything that this new FO has done thus far.
I don't think we will stink enough to be in play for Cunningham, but
Cade will play on ESPN Wednesday at 4 pm vs. Utah. Check it out Knicks fans. Knicks’ free-agency flop means tank is on for Cade Cunningham - ( New Window )
Cunningham is very good.
Not that I care because the NCAA is the height of hypocrisy and phoniness, but how they allow the obvious quid pro quo with Boynton hiring Cunningham’s brother to be his assistant at Oak St is really laugh out loud stuff...
Knox was such a turd last year. I hope Thibs can get into him but
realistically he will probably just languish on the bench because he doesn't hustle on D and sulks after missing one shot.
I know RJ can't shoot, but I feel he can take SG's down in the post better than he can break down opposing SF's. We have more front court players anyway. Try him at SG. I like Burks coming out of college, but he hasn't done much as a pro.
I don't know if that is even being considered. Most of the moves so far have been heavily rooted in familiarity with the new regime.
Thibs - CAA
Toppin - CAA
Quickley - Kentucky
Noel - Kentucky
Burks - Utah
Even Payton who is a familiar face is repped by CAA
Obviously there is a big trend with CAA/Kentucky, and Randle happens to have both of those ties. Clearly we all want to see him gone, it is probably in the best interest of developing the young guys on the team, but it seems to go against everything that this new FO has done thus far.
We like to sit back and say "Glad the Knicks didn't do that",and they may have been overpays,but pretty soon those teams will surpass the Knicks. They're gonna start waving bye bye to the Knicks in the lottery.Because no matter the financial terms,they're still improving.
I would agree. From what I've seen at this level, he looks like hot garbage to me.
And I can't imagine Thibs, and Dolan, being down with 'Tank 4 Cade'. Not after all the disasters we've had in the past couple of years. I still think the FO will be looking to upgrade the 1 at some point, this season.
I keep seeing this everywhere so I have to ask. Who exactlly are the Knicks targeting in 2021 free agency?
I would be focused on trying to get another pick in the draft rather then free agency.
It's a year away so why would we have a list if who specifically we are focused on and even if we did why would that be public? You still haven't answered my question of how this team fucked up by missing out on contracts dumped.
When the FA players are better you'll have more options for dumps. Anything you are complaining about this year can be done next year which would give us a better payout to take in contracts. You are being irrational and emotional about the Knicks actions so far.
Sorry to keep you waiting... I would have been involved in the Horford and Ariza trades. And just because a trade didn't occur doesn't mean it wasn't possible. I would venture to guess a top GM could have used this cap room to acquire some assets. I guarantee there was a deal with Charlotte possible for them to get off the Batum contract.
Tons of writers, analysts and fans keep pointing to this big 2021 free agent class. So who exactly do they have a shot at? I just don't see any plausible scenario where the top guys even consider the Knicks next summer.
So your reasoning is that because next years class is better there will be more options for dumps? Explain to me why you can't do it this year and next? They don't have anyone on the books next year for big money...
If their strategy is to tank this year and go young- then fine I'm good with that. But at least go all in with that and don't half measure it. "Cap flexibility" does absolutely nothing unless you use it to your advantage.
If there is even just a 1% chance of us landing a big time FA then you keep that option open one more year. I also said I think it is easier to get a pair of stars than 1 star. I also said that anything we do this year we can do next with taking on bad contracts if we aren't signing anyone of substance. And if we suck this year we get better picks as opposed to taking in bad contracts and winning more games with those players. These are all advantages to waiting one more year imo.
I have also said that we need to be more attractive to FA and winning is part of that. I get it. I just view our path to being a legit contender different. I'm not looking to be good. I don't want to be stuck in basketball purgatory. I want to be great. I don't think taking on multi year deals this year is the right way to do that. I want to build a legit contender.
meaning the Kings dont match, the Knicks is they stand pat would be the only team int he NBA with cap room going into the season.
That could be huge in middle of the season when teams need to dump salaries to try to make trades and being the only team available to take on salary dumps could get some big assets back . The best thing they can do right now outside of trading Randle , is just stand pat and be patient .
There are going to be oppurtinites to get maybe more then 1 1st round pick in these salary dumps when teams get desperate during the season to improve their team . Much better option then throwing out another pointless contract for a mediocre vet that accomplishes nothing .
Cade will play on ESPN Wednesday at 4 pm vs. Utah. Check it out Knicks fans. Knicks’ free-agency flop means tank is on for Cade Cunningham - ( New Window )
Just for us to lose the Lottery again...
BTW, we re-signed Theo Pinson to a two-way deal
Yeah I think I'm gonna let Leon Rose infiltrate my franchise
Beer brought up an interesting point. If the Hawks really do sign Bogdonavich, they may make Huerter and/or Reddish available for somewhat of a discount. I'd take a flier on either of them for cheap, especially Huerter
I couldn’t find anything updated on him. Too much talent to not take a shot.
Why would the knicks take a flyer on a young guy ? They have more mediocre Vets to sign to try to squeeze out a few more meaningless wins and ruin the development of the young players on the team in the process and the draft positioning as well .
Only properly run organizations would make a move like that
I couldn’t find anything updated on him. Too much talent to not take a shot.
Why would the knicks take a flyer on a young guy ? They have more mediocre Vets to sign to try to squeeze out a few more meaningless wins and ruin the development of the young players on the team in the process and the draft positioning as well .
Only properly run organizations would make a move like that
It doesnt matter if you lose every game, you are not guaranteed to win thr lottery..They tanked perfectly for Zion and still didnt get him..
New rules just losing on purpose doesnt work..
Let the young players play if younlose great, if you win great..
I couldn’t find anything updated on him. Too much talent to not take a shot.
Why would the knicks take a flyer on a young guy ? They have more mediocre Vets to sign to try to squeeze out a few more meaningless wins and ruin the development of the young players on the team in the process and the draft positioning as well .
Only properly run organizations would make a move like that
It doesnt matter if you lose every game, you are not guaranteed to win thr lottery..They tanked perfectly for Zion and still didnt get him..
New rules just losing on purpose doesnt work..
Let the young players play if younlose great, if you win great..
Yeah i agree . I have no issue if the knicks were winning games with RJ, Obi, Mitch leading the charge but last year it was the Morris, Randle, Payton, Taj gibson show while RJ had to sit in the corner getting frozen out and Mitch came off the bench a lot of games .
This year they are setting up a repeat of the Randle/Payton show instead of letting the young guys be the priority. Those 2 are literally the worst pieces you can out around your young guys to help them grow and improve their games.
They are selfish players looking for their next paycheck, they cant shoot so they kill spacing, and they freeze out the young guys on the court . the Knicks should be doing everything to build around their youth instead of hurting their development
The Knicks have emerged as a potential trade partner for the Lakers in a JaVale McGee deal, league sources say, as LA explores its various options
If talks progress, New York would surely require at least one additional asset from the Lakers to take McGee into salary-cap space
IF the Knicks stay patient they can gain so many assets doing this through the season. They are literally the only team who have capspace now . No more signing FA
It's likely just future 2nds. Better than nothing I suppose. Maybe they can get a late first. Would honestly shoot for one in 2025 when Lebron will be retired.
We like to sit back and say "Glad the Knicks didn't do that",and they may have been overpays,but pretty soon those teams will surpass the Knicks. They're gonna start waving bye bye to the Knicks in the lottery.Because no matter the financial terms,they're still improving.
When you cook a fried egg make sure to poke the white part and let it spread out so the white part isn’t runny and weird while the yolk is a little runny.
I added that. You shit on the Knicks. Every post. That’s old.
But dude it’s every post and we know they suck. You’re also assuming things. Hey whatever makes you feel better but you don’t know that rose will fail here. This last weekend doesn’t cement anything. Ok they didn’t get anyone but, so, we should pack up and quit?
Changing gears I still can’t process that so many here advocated getting Haywood but treat Westbrook like a leper. I could live with 2 years for Haywood but holy fucking shit 4 years well over 100 mil? Christ... that dude is a physical wreck lately. Whatever works...
know who I'm also getting excited about is Immanuel Quickley. Gets to the line a bunch where he shoots 92%, 42% from 3 on a high number of attempts, not a great athlete but was their top defender towards the end of the year, which I didn't know -- figured it was Maxey.
Don't think he'll ever be a premier starter, but could be really great as a role player. 3/D guy with upside.
But dude it’s every post and we know they suck. You’re also assuming things. Hey whatever makes you feel better but you don’t know that rose will fail here. This last weekend doesn’t cement anything. Ok they didn’t get anyone but, so, we should pack up and quit?
Doesn't make me feel better,not in the least.Ultimately what's gonna happen here is it's gonna be up to the fans,because Dolan is not gonna do shit.He's too stubborn and spiteful to help you,and too rich for the league to intervene.
But we’ve seen shitty owners win before and we’ll see shitty owners win again. And Dolan spends money so he’s not too shitty. Knicks need to develop and find players. Hopefully this regime can do that.
The issue is no star FA is coming to a shitty team. The Knicks will have another 15-25 win season and need to cross their fingers that they hit on the lotto AND draft an impact player. Then they will need to win and turn they will be in the convo for a star to come here.
The issue is no star FA is coming to a shitty team. The Knicks will have another 15-25 win season and need to cross their fingers that they hit on the lotto AND draft an impact player. Then they will need to win and turn they will be in the convo for a star to come here.
They are forever away from contending.
You need RJ, Toppin and Mitch to show their potential..
The issue is no star FA is coming to a shitty team. The Knicks will have another 15-25 win season and need to cross their fingers that they hit on the lotto AND draft an impact player. Then they will need to win and turn they will be in the convo for a star to come here.
They are forever away from contending.
Don't have to hit the lottery just find a superstar in the draft.
Toppin and RJ could be those guys Also next year's draft is expected to be loaded with talent.
Keep adding 1st round picks and roll the dice.
That is today's NBA.
These NBA max contracts are getting out of hand. 40M per for
Tatum? Fox too? Thank god the Knicks have nobody to give it to. He’s maybe a top 20 player. Is he going to carry a team to a championship? I doubt it. Do fans pay to see him play? Prob not many.
That’s half a mil a game, if the team doesn’t rest him. Or 170$ per second. I don’t begrudge football players from getting big money because of the physical demand and contracts are not guaranteed, or baseball players because of the grind and, well, hitting a baseball is damn hard.
You think Conley has earned half the money on his contract? Simply absurd.
Fred Van Vleet was undrafted. Tyler Herro was pick 13. Bam Adebayo was pick 14. You can develop core players in the draft. You don't need to just win the lottery and draft top 3 to have a future.
Tatum? Fox too? Thank god the Knicks have nobody to give it to. He’s maybe a top 20 player. Is he going to carry a team to a championship? I doubt it. Do fans pay to see him play? Prob not many.
That’s half a mil a game, if the team doesn’t rest him. Or 170$ per second. I don’t begrudge football players from getting big money because of the physical demand and contracts are not guaranteed, or baseball players because of the grind and, well, hitting a baseball is damn hard.
You think Conley has earned half the money on his contract? Simply absurd.
so who should get the money? The owners? It's a more a function of the rosters being smaller compared to other sports. And of course there are the players who get the max who are actually underpaid.
RE: These NBA max contracts are getting out of hand. 40M per for
Tatum? Fox too? Thank god the Knicks have nobody to give it to. He’s maybe a top 20 player. Is he going to carry a team to a championship? I doubt it. Do fans pay to see him play? Prob not many.
That’s half a mil a game, if the team doesn’t rest him. Or 170$ per second. I don’t begrudge football players from getting big money because of the physical demand and contracts are not guaranteed, or baseball players because of the grind and, well, hitting a baseball is damn hard.
You think Conley has earned half the money on his contract? Simply absurd.
Tatum is 100% a max player..
Mitchell 100% a max player..
Fox is a little questionable but you habe to max him
know who I'm also getting excited about is Immanuel Quickley. Gets to the line a bunch where he shoots 92%, 42% from 3 on a high number of attempts, not a great athlete but was their top defender towards the end of the year, which I didn't know -- figured it was Maxey.
Don't think he'll ever be a premier starter, but could be really great as a role player. 3/D guy with upside.
how consistently terrible the Knicks’ guard play is year in and year out. They ditch Trier, Dotson and Ellington and still manage to get worse. Have to hope Quickley steals minutes from these turkeys. But it beats the alternative of a panic move.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Minnesota is trading Omari Spellman and Jacob Evans and a future second-round pick to New York for F Ed Davis, sources tell ESPN
Tatum? Fox too? Thank god the Knicks have nobody to give it to. He’s maybe a top 20 player. Is he going to carry a team to a championship? I doubt it. Do fans pay to see him play? Prob not many.
That’s half a mil a game, if the team doesn’t rest him. Or 170$ per second. I don’t begrudge football players from getting big money because of the physical demand and contracts are not guaranteed, or baseball players because of the grind and, well, hitting a baseball is damn hard.
You think Conley has earned half the money on his contract? Simply absurd.
Tatum is 100% a max player..
Mitchell 100% a max player..
Fox is a little questionable but you habe to max him
I love Fox's game. I have no qualms about giving him max $. And obviously Tatum & Mitchell are max guys as well.
I dont understand it from his perspective. Why lock into 3 years and make yourself a bargain.
I don't get it from either perspective. Why would Rivers be okay with 3M per and why would the Knicks want to give him a 3 year deal?
I don't think this hurts the Knicks at all.
It's a easy to move contract and if he works out he is locked up for very little.
It's a stupid move for Rivers who is his agent to talk him into that deal?
I dont understand it from his perspective. Why lock into 3 years and make yourself a bargain.
I don't get it from either perspective. Why would Rivers be okay with 3M per and why would the Knicks want to give him a 3 year deal?
I don't think this hurts the Knicks at all.
It's a easy to move contract and if he works out he is locked up for very little.
It's a stupid move for Rivers who is his agent to talk him into that deal?
Doesn't hurt the Knicks really, but IDK why they would give Austin Rivers a three-year deal
actually less upset with the Rivers deal now. I figured it was like 1 year 8 mil. This is one mil more than the vet min per year. Basically chump change. Now I'm not sure if Rivers is actually a good player, but the contract is negligible.
Vincent Goodwill
@VinceGoodwill
The Pistons are expected to waive and stretch recent acquisition Zhaire Smith following trade for Tony Bradley, sources say
pretty clear that the Knicks don't value Frank and/or DSJ very highly. And maybe they shouldn't, but you dont bring in two vet stopgap PGs if you like the young options you have at the position.
@IanBegley
·
31s
The final two years of Austin Rivers’ three-year deal with the Knicks are non-guaranteed, per SNY sources. He has a three-year, $10 million deal, ESPN reports.
@IanBegley
·
31s
The final two years of Austin Rivers’ three-year deal with the Knicks are non-guaranteed, per SNY sources. He has a three-year, $10 million deal, ESPN reports.
Uhhhh, does Austin Rivers have an agent? That's a terrible deal for him.
We haven’t spent any money. A five year old could do his job this year. Whomever is calling the shots need to get rid of Randle and have someone eats Noah’s $6m for not only this year but next year. Then we need to put a team together.
will be interesting to see when they announce the Payton signing, if they wait, that means they are using the room exception and are planning on using the 23 million in space
Celtics Receive: Dennis Smith Jr., Julius Randle, 2021 1st Round Pick (via DAL), 2023 1st Round Pick (via DAL)
Trade idea - ( New Window )
Why would the Celtics do that?
Why it’s because they would be getting back the oh so talented Dennis Smith JR and all that potential.
Dennis Smith has ZERO value. As in NO value. He’s one more failed reclamation project away from being thrown out of the NBA for good. These articles and takes that reference Smith as someone who actually carries weight just kill me.
FVV, Beasley, RJB, Toppin, Mitch would be an exciting 5 to root for and watch develop.
and resign Harris - although that seems likely.
"A couple was on the annual Parade of Homes tour on Sept. 26 with their 13-year-old child and pulled up in an SUV to the home Beasley and Yao rent but saw it was roped off. While pulled over to look up another home to visit, Beasley tapped on the vehicle's window and pointed a rifle at them.
"Get the [expletive] off my property!" Beasley said.
Beasley continued to train his "all-black assault rifle with a forehand grip" and a scope at the SUV as it drove off, the criminal complaint read.
Officers detected an overwhelming odor of marijuana and soon located more than 1¾ pounds of the drug in the basement living room and main floor office. Next to the stash was a notebook with instructions on how to smoke the drug."
That family must have been scared shitless. And what could the instructions in the notebook be...?
Not in my opinion. He's another athletic Florida State guy taught well by Leonard Hamilton and a big part of that is tenacious D.
You may be thinking of Michael Beasley.
"A couple was on the annual Parade of Homes tour on Sept. 26 with their 13-year-old child and pulled up in an SUV to the home Beasley and Yao rent but saw it was roped off. While pulled over to look up another home to visit, Beasley tapped on the vehicle's window and pointed a rifle at them.
"Get the [expletive] off my property!" Beasley said.
Beasley continued to train his "all-black assault rifle with a forehand grip" and a scope at the SUV as it drove off, the criminal complaint read.
Officers detected an overwhelming odor of marijuana and soon located more than 1¾ pounds of the drug in the basement living room and main floor office. Next to the stash was a notebook with instructions on how to smoke the drug."
That family must have been scared shitless. And what could the instructions in the notebook be...?
Beasley and Yao rented a house together?
Def not a glowing story for Beasley. Maybe there was more to it, maybe he was too fucked up, who knows. Im usually good with not holding people to one bad thing, not sure if he has had other issues in the past.
Light that shit, smoke that shit, pass that shit
Quote:
Via the Star Tribune:
"A couple was on the annual Parade of Homes tour on Sept. 26 with their 13-year-old child and pulled up in an SUV to the home Beasley and Yao rent but saw it was roped off. While pulled over to look up another home to visit, Beasley tapped on the vehicle's window and pointed a rifle at them.
"Get the [expletive] off my property!" Beasley said.
Beasley continued to train his "all-black assault rifle with a forehand grip" and a scope at the SUV as it drove off, the criminal complaint read.
Officers detected an overwhelming odor of marijuana and soon located more than 1¾ pounds of the drug in the basement living room and main floor office. Next to the stash was a notebook with instructions on how to smoke the drug."
That family must have been scared shitless. And what could the instructions in the notebook be...?
Beasley and Yao rented a house together?
Yao (last name) is his girlfriend, but I would love to see a reality show with Yao Ming and Malik Beasley.
Can we please lose this tired narrative? We get it, its been dismal. But the new leadership is an encouraging group and let's give them a clean slate to see what they can do.
Quote:
Where us Knicks fans get to sit around and watch the rest of the NBA wheel and deal and sign talent while every decent player with other options tell the Knicks to take a long walk off a short pier.
Can we please lose this tired narrative? We get it, its been dismal. But the new leadership is an encouraging group and let's give them a clean slate to see what they can do.
Nothing against Leon Rose, but I really don't get how hiring an agent as the president of the organization will get us in the good graces of free agents. Okay, so he knows the top players' agents. Fantastic. That doesn't mean they players going to do Rose a solid and sign here on discounted prices.
Im not saying that is it, im just saying i dont think they hired him cause he is an agent. But im choosing to give the new FO a chance, i know we have been here many times before, but its only fair to give a new regime a chance.
Im not saying that is it, im just saying i dont think they hired him cause he is an agent. But im choosing to give the new FO a chance, i know we have been here many times before, but its only fair to give a new regime a chance.
It's not just Rose. It's the new trend in pretty much every sport to hire agents to prominent front office roles. The Mets with BVW. The Lakers with Pelinka. I'm not sure I really get it. Yeah, maybe they have exceptional basketball acumen, but that's not what makes an agent. An agent prides himself/herself on his/her negotiating skills and marketability. It's not so much the talent scouting aspect of it. At the end of the day, money talks.
Quote:
Where us Knicks fans get to sit around and watch the rest of the NBA wheel and deal and sign talent while every decent player with other options tell the Knicks to take a long walk off a short pier.
Can we please lose this tired narrative? We get it, its been dismal. But the new leadership is an encouraging group and let's give them a clean slate to see what they can do.
Oh no knock on Rose & co. They seemed to do fine with the draft But I'll believe a star chooses us over other options when I see it.
FYI- his son is an agent for CAA and one of Toppin's agents.I have no idea how Leon Rose the President will untangle himself with CAA the agency....
Leon Rose - ( New Window )
Some agents go after the small fish out of necessity because the big stars will never choose them to represent them. In Rose's case, he basically only represented stars, no? I'm sure he got a start somewhere, but CAA is the biggest agency in the country.
Quote:
awful on defense?
You may be thinking of Michael Beasley.
He-he, I somewhat enjoyed Super Cool Beas' time here. Goofy as heck, but I enjoyed the scoring. Much more 'organic' than Randle, who disrupts everything with his contrived moves.
FYI- his son is an agent for CAA and one of Toppin's agents.I have no idea how Leon Rose the President will untangle himself with CAA the agency.... Leon Rose - ( New Window )
CAA is one of the biggest agencies in the NBA, people only complain aboit it when Rose does something they dont like..
For example if they draftdd Haliburton would CAA have been brought up?
Link - ( New Window )
That's why you end up with guys like Rose
I found the following to be the most interesting part!!
“ According to the conversation with Lowe, the Dallas Mavericks tried to move up to pick No. 8 and select Haliburton, but the Knicks waited to see if Obi Toppin would fall to them and he did.”
Quote:
Here's an interesting conspiracy theory regarding Halliburton. Link - ( New Window )
I found the following to be the most interesting part!!
“ According to the conversation with Lowe, the Dallas Mavericks tried to move up to pick No. 8 and select Haliburton, but the Knicks waited to see if Obi Toppin would fall to them and he did.”
Well, we already own two of their future first rounders, so what else could they have offered us?
Quote:
Pretty incredible success story for Rose.
FYI- his son is an agent for CAA and one of Toppin's agents.I have no idea how Leon Rose the President will untangle himself with CAA the agency.... Leon Rose - ( New Window )
CAA is one of the biggest agencies in the NBA, people only complain aboit it when Rose does something they dont like..
For example if they draftdd Haliburton would CAA have been brought up?
I'm not complaining. If anything I think it can be an advantage. I honestly didn't know his son was an agent there.
I really like the Toppin pick. Seems like they got great value at 8. I like it.
Quote:
In comment 15052122 Spider43 said:
Quote:
Here's an interesting conspiracy theory regarding Halliburton. Link - ( New Window )
I found the following to be the most interesting part!!
“ According to the conversation with Lowe, the Dallas Mavericks tried to move up to pick No. 8 and select Haliburton, but the Knicks waited to see if Obi Toppin would fall to them and he did.”
Well, we already own two of their future first rounders, so what else could they have offered us?
An injured Porzingis? :)
Quote:
In comment 15052071 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Pretty incredible success story for Rose.
FYI- his son is an agent for CAA and one of Toppin's agents.I have no idea how Leon Rose the President will untangle himself with CAA the agency.... Leon Rose - ( New Window )
CAA is one of the biggest agencies in the NBA, people only complain aboit it when Rose does something they dont like..
For example if they draftdd Haliburton would CAA have been brought up?
I'm not complaining. If anything I think it can be an advantage. I honestly didn't know his son was an agent there.
I really like the Toppin pick. Seems like they got great value at 8. I like it.
Funny probably because of the negativity around here with him leading up to the draft I was kind of down on him but suddenly the day of the draft I did a deeper dive on him and got hooked. He is so dynamic offensively I think he only has begun scratching the surface eventhough he's 21. He will definately bring some juice into the building. When's the last time we had that? I also see Quigley really lighting it up off the bench and a guy who can be on the floor late in games due to his athleticism, defense and free throw shooting. I probably would have taken Flynn there but I'm not complaining.
When they stayed put, I felt a lot better about it. The human/hometown element of seeing the kid's reaction didn't hurt perception either. But primarily the fact that they still had that second first round pick.
When they stayed put, I felt a lot better about it. The human/hometown element of seeing the kid's reaction didn't hurt perception either. But primarily the fact that they still had that second first round pick.
True. I also think his poor D had a lot to do with it. I think there's way too much handwringing over NBA guys and their D. Especially a guy like Toppin with his work ethic and Thibs ability to coach up D. Also I was really surprised to find out what a growth spurt he's had in recent years as well. He couldn't even dunk as a junior in HS. Growing into that type of body change has to be difficult at times to adjust too especially without great defensive coaching.
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
Usually by now deals would be leaking out
its not an exciting free agency.
its not an exciting free agency.
I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear that
The one thing he has going for him he is not afraid of hard work and practice.
Hopefully with coaching and effort it will improve so that it's not a liability
Quote:
is one of the top names out there
its not an exciting free agency.
I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear that
lol!
i love joe--- but when they are talking about 18 a yr for him and being a key target- its a bit frightening in regards to strength of the class
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
·
48s
Can’t confirm anything is done, but hearing some rumblings on the Gordon Hayward front...how would Knicks fans feel about three years, $70 million?
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
·
48s
Can’t confirm anything is done, but hearing some rumblings on the Gordon Hayward front...how would Knicks fans feel about three years, $70 million?
That's actually a pretty reasonable deal.
Quote:
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
·
48s
Can’t confirm anything is done, but hearing some rumblings on the Gordon Hayward front...how would Knicks fans feel about three years, $70 million?
That's actually a pretty reasonable deal.
A lot lower than I figured
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
·
48s
Can’t confirm anything is done, but hearing some rumblings on the Gordon Hayward front...how would Knicks fans feel about three years, $70 million?
overall I think they should avoid vets this offseason...but if this is the direction Rose wants to take them then this isn't awful IMO. And if that's the contract, that's less than I assumed he'd go for.
its fine, hes a good player- i do not see the fit towards what they want to build.
invest in point guard- or a plan there
That would be a horrible defense 2 through 4, which is the main problem with this.
Quote:
the nice part is that he can facilitate a good bit, so it puts a much lower need on a PG. Im curious about the fit defensively with RJ.
That would be a horrible defense 2 through 4, which is the main problem with this.
Toppin is a poor defender, no doubt, but RJ is fine and Hayward is average. They don't have any lock down guys but with Mitch and Frank off the bench, it can be passable.
But yes at worst i think we end up with a starting vet PG like DJ augustine.
Yeah, I know.
Joey Hoops will always be special to me, though, along with Akil Mitchell. They didn't go all the way, and I will always cherish our national championship squad, but those two guys got the whole thing started at UVA. In Tony Bennett's first few years, when wins were scarce and
Are we thinking Silver is trying to enforce the rules on tampering and guys having deals in place before FA starts?
It's a little odd Woj/Shams etc. have not tweeted much of anything today.
I'd expect a flurry of stuff to get broken right at 6pm.
PG - DJ Augustin/DSJ/Frank
SG - RJ/Frank/Quickley
SF - Hayward/Knox
PF - Obi/Julius
C - Mitch/Ed Davis
All that said, i highly doubt bogdan gets a contract as big as Hayward (not even sure what the max for Bogdan is).
His line with the Wolves was pretty absurd, in admittedly only 14 games.
21-5-2 on 48/42/75 splits. Key number is 8 3PA per game. Only 24 so not in his prime yet. Solid athlete/defender.
Definitely a question mark about the gun charge but medical marijuana is legal in Ny so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
His line with the Wolves was pretty absurd, in admittedly only 14 games.
21-5-2 on 48/42/75 splits. Key number is 8 3PA per game. Only 24 so not in his prime yet. Solid athlete/defender.
Definitely a question mark about the gun charge but medical marijuana is legal in Ny so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Really not huge on Hayward to NYK. Can get Malik Beasley who is younger and would be cheaper. Also need some $ for a PG, a lot of $ for an injury prone SF
Link - ( New Window )
Anybody know?
ok!
Meyers Leonard back to Miami.
Meyers Leonard back to Miami.
*KNICKS GREAT* Wes Matthews
pass. He doesn't do much for us.
Time to use that capspace in other ways. Doesnt look like any of the top guys are coming and thats perfectly fine. I wouldnt be upset with FVV or Hayward, but its not like we are missing out on Lebron or KD here. Just move on and show us you have a plan.
Time to use that capspace in other ways. Doesnt look like any of the top guys are coming and thats perfectly fine. I wouldnt be upset with FVV or Hayward, but its not like we are missing out on Lebron or KD here. Just move on and show us you have a plan.
He probably is representing by CAA.
No big FA are coming here and signing these medicore ones are not doing anything positive for the team both in the short and long term as evidenced by last year. They only take away playing time from the younger players and give the team a few meaningless wins at the end of the season .
Build the team the right way through the draft, acquiring assets , and focus on development. eventually when you have a winning team or at least a team on the rise that is when the FA will want to come ala Brooklyn .
The problem is every front office under Dolan always wants that quick fix through Free agency and it never works and it never will work . They need someone disciplined like Sam Presti who understands that OKC is not a premiere FA destination so he has to build his team through drafting, asset collection, player development, and trades .
@wojespn
Free agent center Mason Plumlee has agreed to a three-year, $25M deal with the Detroit Pistons, his agent Mark Bartelstein of @PrioritySportstells ESPN.
Yes but there are very few teams left with cap space at this point and there are still a lot of FA out there. Also teams might want to pursue RFA or trades and might need to shed a contract off their books to do it. This si where the knicks renting out their cap space for draft picks can be used for their advantage instead of filling it up with mediocre junk like KCP, Jeff Teague etc .
If they are going to use their capspace though not on absorbing bad deals, then using it on ascending players like Wood, Bogdanovich, Beasley is what they should be doing . Guys who can grow with the team and whose best years might be ahead of them
Hahaha. Burning money.
haha - I remember Clyde really wanted Okafor, and when the Knicks didn't get him Clyde kept talking about it
Signing 1 year guys never works because they are only looking to pad their stats for their next contract and have no interest in playing team ball .This past year was a disaster because everyone was playing selfishly just looking for their next contract
Hahaha. (Pause) LOL.
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They should be looking for bad 1 year contracts. And why is that significant? Well because team would want to free up cap space to sign players. If it didn't happen by now it probably won't be happening. Last year was the year to take on 1 and 2 years of a bad contract. You don't want to have your cap fucked for next offseason. Even of the Knicks get screwed again on another big FA year, we can still absorb contracts then and get better assets because there are better FA available. But that should happen next year if we can't land anyone. The plan this year should be signing 1 year guys like last year but people will probably kill them for that.
Signing 1 year guys never works because they are only looking to pad their stats for their next contract and have no interest in playing team ball .This past year was a disaster because everyone was playing selfishly just looking for their next contract
And last year should have been different. This year is about keeping our cap flexible for next offseason. If players are playing selfishly then that's on the coach and the systems in place in the organization.
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In comment 15052618 robbieballs2003 said:
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They should be looking for bad 1 year contracts. And why is that significant? Well because team would want to free up cap space to sign players. If it didn't happen by now it probably won't be happening. Last year was the year to take on 1 and 2 years of a bad contract. You don't want to have your cap fucked for next offseason. Even of the Knicks get screwed again on another big FA year, we can still absorb contracts then and get better assets because there are better FA available. But that should happen next year if we can't land anyone. The plan this year should be signing 1 year guys like last year but people will probably kill them for that.
Signing 1 year guys never works because they are only looking to pad their stats for their next contract and have no interest in playing team ball .This past year was a disaster because everyone was playing selfishly just looking for their next contract
And last year should have been different. This year is about keeping our cap flexible for next offseason. If players are playing selfishly then that's on the coach and the systems in place in the organization.
You can keep the cap flexible while still taking on bad contracts with only 1 year left on them .
Players on 1 year contracts unless they are older vets who are ring chasing are just by nature going to play more selfish because they want to cash out on their next contract. That's why it's a terrible philosophy what they did last year and i really hope they dont repeat it this offseason again.
Either find a player you feel is worth investing a multi year deal in or rent your cap space out. If you cant do neither , then you better make sure the players you are signing are team 1st guys and not guys like Portis, Randle, Ellington etc
I agree with you they should be careful not to take on bad contracts that are going to extend into next years Free Agency but if they are going to go the route of signing players to 1 year deals instead they better be very careful which players they bring in because it's a recipe for disaster
Free agent F Josh Jackson is finalizing a deal with the Detroit Pistons, sources tell ESPN.
That after Ed Davis only $35M left?
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Danilo Gallinari is headed to the Hawks on a three-year, $61.5M deal, per @wojespn https://t.co/ZoIl9tDdzS
That after Ed Davis only $35M left?
Yeah but they are talks to cut Davis.
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
Restricted free agent Malik Beasley (@Mbeasy5
) has agreed to a four-year, $60M deal to return to the Minnesota Timberwolves, his agent Brian Jungreis told @TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
.
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
Restricted free agent Malik Beasley (@Mbeasy5
) has agreed to a four-year, $60M deal to return to the Minnesota Timberwolves, his agent Brian Jungreis told @TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
.
Damn, 15MM isn't crazy. I probably would have done this.
@TheFrankIsola
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1m
Christian Wood is close to finalizing a three-year, $27 million contract with the Houston Rockets, according to a source.
@TheFrankIsola
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Christian Wood is close to finalizing a three-year, $27 million contract with the Houston Rockets, according to a source.
Just what they need a another knockdown 3pt shooter.
Really wanted him on the Knicks
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Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
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1m
Restricted free agent Malik Beasley (@Mbeasy5
) has agreed to a four-year, $60M deal to return to the Minnesota Timberwolves, his agent Brian Jungreis told @TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
.
Damn, 15MM isn't crazy. I probably would have done this.
This is only 3 + a team option. I definitely would have done this. I'm surprised Beasley didn't try to get an offer to force the Wolves to match TBH. He's going to be behind both Dlo and Edwards.
Really like this signing for the Rockets. I'm really high on Wood, he tore it up last year. If Harden/Westbrook stay, he'd be a great piece next to them.
I would love VanVleet for 3 yrs 70 million.
Would be a nice fit
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Christian Wood is close to finalizing a three-year, $27 million contract with the Houston Rockets, according to a source.
Really like this signing for the Rockets. I'm really high on Wood, he tore it up last year. If Harden/Westbrook stay, he'd be a great piece next to them.
Perfect piece for Houston
Could be negotiating with VanVleet.
Easiest way to figure this out is if they are a CAA client and/or played at Kentucky
Year. Sign Hayward and sign and trade dennis smith jr for van fleet
PG - FVV
SG - Bogdnovic
SF Barrett
PF Toppin
C - Mitch
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Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
Restricted free agent Malik Beasley (@Mbeasy5
) has agreed to a four-year, $60M deal to return to the Minnesota Timberwolves, his agent Brian Jungreis told @TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
.
Damn, 15MM isn't crazy. I probably would have done this.
Yeah but we already know they match $15M which I guess means they would probably match ~$20M
IMO they should tell him to wait on FVV and if he didn't come to NY they would give him 2/$50M
My one issue with FVV is he wants to stay in Toronto so you'd have to overpay to get him. And if I'm the Knicks I'm not sure staying bad for one more year wouldn't be a great thing. There are some bigger prospects at the top due next year and I think having say the #1 pick and another 1st rounder does more for you to recruit than FVV and coming in 8-10 in the conference and I'm really not sure we could do any better than that with our current roster.
Wonder what the Knicks are up to. Rose and the rest have to have some good intel with all their connections.
Harrell represented by Rich Paul, of course.
Yep Brian Windhorst
@WindhorstESPN
Montrezl Harrell is planning to sign with the Lakers for two years and $19 million with second season being a player option, agent Rich Paul tells ESPN
9:44 PM · Nov 20, 2020
I'm not in love with the move for the Lakers, but they have def improved their secondary scoring with Schroder + Harrell.
Clippers are in real trouble right now. They need to do something.
16 million per is not bad but a year or 2 too long
Deal negotiated by agent Mike Kneisley.
Deal negotiated by agent Mike Kneisley.
Looks like they are letting Woods walk
That's insane.
Link - ( New Window )
Signed 4 forwards today.
Following the Knicks of last year
Following the Knicks of last year
Yep, but these are multi-year deals - at least the Knicks kept it to one year, other than Randle.
Sure...if they take back Randle and give us Avdija
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..
Sure...if they take back Randle and give us Avdija
i would need 3 first round picks minimum..
Whats scary is hr has a connection to Wes
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In comment 15052763 nygiants16 said:
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..
Sure...if they take back Randle and give us Avdija
i would need 3 first round picks minimum..
Whats scary is hr has a connection to Wes
3 years for 150 million plus a 15% trade kicker for a 31 yr old PG that hasn't played in 3 years
I am going to need beal and 3 firsts
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In comment 15052763 nygiants16 said:
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..
Sure...if they take back Randle and give us Avdija
i would need 3 first round picks minimum..
Whats scary is hr has a connection to Wes
And obviously with Payne and Quickley. I'm sure Wall has "mentored" Quickley.
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In comment 15052768 Anakim said:
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In comment 15052763 nygiants16 said:
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..
Sure...if they take back Randle and give us Avdija
i would need 3 first round picks minimum..
Whats scary is hr has a connection to Wes
3 years for 150 million plus a 15% trade kicker for a 31 yr old PG that hasn't played in 3 years
I am going to need beal and 3 firsts
Haha, I didn't even know about the trade kicker. Geez, that's worse than the Westbrook contract.
To be fair some of the contracts being thrown around right now are absurd, so I'm happy we didn't tie 80 mil to Davis Bertans.
Obviously Ainge thinking his shit doesn't stink is trying to get two starters for a guy who could easily walk for nothing.
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With the sign and trade of Hayward to Indy is Boston wants Turner and either Warren or Oladipo. While Indy is countering with Turner and our old pal, McDermott. They continue to negotiate, according to Washburn.
Obviously Ainge thinking his shit doesn't stink is trying to get two starters for a guy who could easily walk for nothing.
IND is over the cap and has no other way to get him. Ainge knows this
To be fair some of the contracts being thrown around right now are absurd, so I'm happy we didn't tie 80 mil to Davis Bertans.
Still have hope for VanVleet.
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seems like barring a falling apart of the Pacers/Celtics deal, it's another year for the Knicks of smaller one year contracts. Hopefully this bunch does better the last.
To be fair some of the contracts being thrown around right now are absurd, so I'm happy we didn't tie 80 mil to Davis Bertans.
Still have hope for VanVleet.
I don't. I think we would have heard something by now about at least interest or a meeting.
Also there are rumors the jrue bucks/NO trade is getting bigger and involves a 3rd team
Also there are rumors the jrue bucks/NO trade is getting bigger and involves a 3rd team
Hmmm could it be NYK, giving up Randle for a PG?
Indiana remains Gordon Hayward's preferred destination, league sources say, which requires a sign-and-trade with the Celtics to net the former Butler star a deal estimated in the four-year, $100 million range
Indiana remains Gordon Hayward's preferred destination, league sources say, which requires a sign-and-trade with the Celtics to net the former Butler star a deal estimated in the four-year, $100 million range
So much for Macri...
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
Sounds like they are waiting on Hayward, even have up their offer..
Point Guard will probably end up being a cheap vet..
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
I could be wrong here, but wouldn’t it make sense to trade for a guy like Kemba who can help guys like Barrett and Toppin? I feel like trading for a guy like him may be able to attract a FA next year and makes $10M less than Westbrook. I’m just not totally sure if they sign FVV if he would be able to attract a big time FA.
Indiana remains Gordon Hayward's preferred destination, league sources say, which requires a sign-and-trade with the Celtics to net the former Butler star a deal estimated in the four-year, $100 million range
He’s from Indy, his family is there and has made it known that’s where he wants to go all along. He’s making Ainge’s job pretty easy as long as he doesn’t get greedy.
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My top two goals for this team are to fix this culture (yes, that does mean start winning games too which may be tough) and to maintain our cap flexibility for next offseason. This is not the year to be spending big. I'm sure we'll still be left standing at the alter next year but you miss 100% of the chances you don't take. I cant imagine too many teams being able to fix multiple max money players next offseason. That is a huge selling point to FA. They get to pick their teammates. However, we know where we have fallen short in the past. It was our culture and the supporting cast. So, how do you fix that? The culture thing is tough because of decades of shitty handling of this team. But hopefully this new regime gets a better rep. Also, we need these kids to develop fast particularly Toppin and Barrett. I think that can be accomplished. That is why I said I would target 1 year vets this year like last year.
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
I could be wrong here, but wouldn’t it make sense to trade for a guy like Kemba who can help guys like Barrett and Toppin? I feel like trading for a guy like him may be able to attract a FA next year and makes $10M less than Westbrook. I’m just not totally sure if they sign FVV if he would be able to attract a big time FA.
Kemba is a guy that can attract another player. Absolutely. But of you trade for Kemba then what are you giving up? If it is just Kemba on your roster and nothing else then it really isn't all that attractive.
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In comment 15052834 robbieballs2003 said:
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My top two goals for this team are to fix this culture (yes, that does mean start winning games too which may be tough) and to maintain our cap flexibility for next offseason. This is not the year to be spending big. I'm sure we'll still be left standing at the alter next year but you miss 100% of the chances you don't take. I cant imagine too many teams being able to fix multiple max money players next offseason. That is a huge selling point to FA. They get to pick their teammates. However, we know where we have fallen short in the past. It was our culture and the supporting cast. So, how do you fix that? The culture thing is tough because of decades of shitty handling of this team. But hopefully this new regime gets a better rep. Also, we need these kids to develop fast particularly Toppin and Barrett. I think that can be accomplished. That is why I said I would target 1 year vets this year like last year.
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
I could be wrong here, but wouldn’t it make sense to trade for a guy like Kemba who can help guys like Barrett and Toppin? I feel like trading for a guy like him may be able to attract a FA next year and makes $10M less than Westbrook. I’m just not totally sure if they sign FVV if he would be able to attract a big time FA.
Kemba is a guy that can attract another player. Absolutely. But of you trade for Kemba then what are you giving up? If it is just Kemba on your roster and nothing else then it really isn't all that attractive.
Doesn’t Boston supposedly want to shed salary? A Randle trade could make sense there and they don’t need Knox as they have Tatum and Jaylen Brown as Forwards, maybe DSJ or Frank goes with Randle in a Walker trade? Also could move one of the Mavs picks or something? I don’t know exactly what.
I also am very confused with the Hayward thing as to why it’s a sign/ trade if he declined the $35M figured he’d be a UFA and can go anywhere he wants as a UFA
If we can help a taem shed salary, great. If we cant then i guess overpay guys on one year deals. Hopefully get a couple Marcus Morris type assets and not Bobby Portis.
I like Burks, def need a vet PG and of course id love to move Randle, but outside of this message board you havent heard a damn thing about that, haha.
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In comment 15052838 UGADawgs7 said:
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In comment 15052834 robbieballs2003 said:
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I also am very confused with the Hayward thing as to why it’s a sign/ trade if he declined the $35M figured he’d be a UFA and can go anywhere he wants as a UFA
Indiana has no cap space. Technically they are over the cap.
Thibs is why I don't think we sit & wait for next year. He didn't sign up to coach the roster as currently constructed. And,I would imagine he was promised a roster that could compete for a playoff spot. It's why I'd be amazed if we fill the roster with players like last year. Myself, I have mixed emotions about pursuing a Westbrook,Hayward or even a Wall. But,continuing the wishing & hoping until next FA season just pushes the problem under the rug for another season. They need a quality vet to help them get into the playoffs as to change the entire league perception of the Knicks. Without changing that,it's same old,same old ,year after year!
Im all for winning vs tanking. I was on board with Paul, i can live with hayward (but 4/100 is a lot for him), but guys like Russ/Wall dont make sense. You need to make sure you are both making the team better short term and long term. Russ stunts the growth of the young guys. I like Russ but he needs the ball all the time, that will hurt RJ and Obi. Wall you have no idea how healthy he even is.
Im all for winning vs tanking. I was on board with Paul, i can live with hayward (but 4/100 is a lot for him), but guys like Russ/Wall dont make sense. You need to make sure you are both making the team better short term and long term. Russ stunts the growth of the young guys. I like Russ but he needs the ball all the time, that will hurt RJ and Obi. Wall you have no idea how healthy he even is.
I’m not saying that I want Russ, his contract and age scares me. But I don’t get this idea that people keep saying about stunting other players growth and that he needs the ball all the time. Everywhere he’s been, getting other players involved has not been an issue whatsoever. People act like he’s just a chucker. You don’t average close to a triple double because you’re an unwilling passer. Is he going to control the ball most of the time? Welll yeah, he’s the point guard. This isn’t Melo here. Westbrook is not a ball stopper. I get not thinking the contract this late in his career is a good fit for where this team is currently at. What I don’t get is the idea that RJ and Toppin will somehow suffer and not develop or be involved with the offense
Also sounds like the are looking for a similar deal to last year for Pope like a 1 yr 16 million with a team option.
Also sounds like the are looking for a similar deal to last year for Pope like a 1 yr 16 million with a team option.
2 questions I have about this besides why.
1. In the NBA can we front load a contract this year to make next year's cap number very low?
2. Would he be a nice piece to attract FA next year or would he be a trade piece to bring in another top player in 2021?
Im all for winning vs tanking. I was on board with Paul, i can live with hayward (but 4/100 is a lot for him), but guys like Russ/Wall dont make sense. You need to make sure you are both making the team better short term and long term. Russ stunts the growth of the young guys. I like Russ but he needs the ball all the time, that will hurt RJ and Obi. Wall you have no idea how healthy he even is.
Maybe guarantee is too strong a word,but I'm sure there were assurances of a competitive roster.Yes, he wanted to coach the Knicks, but he had other offers as well. So,if Leon,wanted Thibs he didn't just promise him he wouldn't fire him. Yes, Westbrook/Wall are both ball dominant guards but that doesn't mean RJ & Obi wouldn't get their shots. On the contrary,both are great ball distributors & top assist guys.In an ideal world,sure I'd love a 27-28 year old Paul & I'd give him the keys to the franchise. But,he's not out there & even if he was, past history shows he wouldn't come to the Knicks.So,like I said above, if you don't change the perception of who the Knicks are, we'll be wishing & hoping for another 10 years! If you can change the perception,you have to do it!
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
If FVV only wants $16-$18M, definitely worth it to offer him 4/80 if an extra $2-$4M would pry him from Toronto. If Randle is not traded, fine but can’t have that $ on the bench. If they can sign FVV, it’s better than trading assets for a PG, but FVV may not be that guy who attracts UFA to come next summer.
I say all this as a Russ fan.
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Is not getting traded in a salary dump. Only CHA/ ATL have the cap space to do it and they are not taking Julius Randle unless the Knicks include a pick. Just shows how bad last offseason really was. Hopefully they move him somewhere though.
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
If FVV only wants $16-$18M, definitely worth it to offer him 4/80 if an extra $2-$4M would pry him from Toronto. If Randle is not traded, fine but can’t have that $ on the bench. If they can sign FVV, it’s better than trading assets for a PG, but FVV may not be that guy who attracts UFA to come next summer.
All the writer in Toronto say they love VanVleet for 16 million per but don't want to pay him 22-25 million.
If I am the Knicks I go big on a 3 years deal like 3 yrs for 70 million.
Could do a option on year 4.
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In comment 15052885 TyreeHelmet said:
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Is not getting traded in a salary dump. Only CHA/ ATL have the cap space to do it and they are not taking Julius Randle unless the Knicks include a pick. Just shows how bad last offseason really was. Hopefully they move him somewhere though.
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
If FVV only wants $16-$18M, definitely worth it to offer him 4/80 if an extra $2-$4M would pry him from Toronto. If Randle is not traded, fine but can’t have that $ on the bench. If they can sign FVV, it’s better than trading assets for a PG, but FVV may not be that guy who attracts UFA to come next summer.
All the writer in Toronto say they love VanVleet for 16 million per but don't want to pay him 22-25 million.
If I am the Knicks I go big on a 3 years deal like 3 yrs for 70 million.
Could do a option on year 4.
I mean yeah, FVV for 5/80-90 would be amazing to stay in Toronto(16-18.) but I do feel like if they signed him for 5 years, it’d have to be in $20-$22M range since it’s buying years of his FA. If FVV stays in Toronto, his best bet would be a 3 year deal so he can get more as a 29 year old. If I’m NYK, I offer 3/60 easily and maybe 4/80-84.
As long as it's not the Knicks' money, okey dokey.
But talk about doubling down on a mistake.
This is what MM Sr. put up in 56 minutes of court time in Games 6 and 7 vs the Nuggets as the Clips' season crumbled to dust:
3-14 from the field (1-4 2 pt; 2-10 3 pt)
1 assist
Yes, that was MM's total production in almost an hour of court time in the biggest two games of the season.
Four more years, four more years . . .
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
Certainly worse ways they could go. What’s one more year of shit and at least now they have a good HC and some young players we can all get behind. I’d be excited for the season but I’d like to see a PG brought in that can actually facilitate at an above average level.
Not that I’d shed a tear if Randle was traded but as mentioned there likely isn’t a market for him. Maybe we build him up this season and deal him at the deadline when his value is higher.
I’ll be excited just to watch RJ, Obi and Mitch and a good HC. Like the giants I do think there’s a light at the end of this long tunnel. Might be a year away though.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
The alternative is to just be shitty next year and hope for another high pick, which may be what we end up doing and might be wiser in the long run.
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Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
Also he does note that the Knicks have interest in FVV, just to be at their number, which seems to be a theme.
Link - ( New Window )
The alternative is to just be shitty next year and hope for another high pick, which may be what we end up doing and might be wiser in the long run.
Even if they were to ONLY sign FVV, not Hayward which is fine, it still can help RJ and Toppin. Easily can remain a top 10 pick but help the youth as well. If Randle isn’t moveable yet fine and possibly Toppin can either play some SF, or Randle play some C and have Mitch back up. Give Randle 8-10 mins a night at C, and 10-12 at PF. Have Toppin play some of both positions. Knox also needs this year still to develop and hopefully Kenny Payne saves Knox. This is the last year Knox has before he’s done here imo and Payne was brought in partially to try and avoid that.
@TheAthleticNBA
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In comment 15052952 Italianju said:
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Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
Georgia football, Kentucky basketball.
On a happier note, Portis signed with the Bucks so he cant come back
Weird the FVV market is so quiet. TOR must not be offering what he wants. Most likely using the Knicks as leverage, but maybe for once we are sticking to our number. Tired of being used by players to get more money where they actually want to play.
That one hurts..
So it's hayward or bust at this point.
Please no Westbrook
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4/85 for FVV Toronto
That one hurts..
So it's hayward or bust at this point.
Please no Westbrook
I don't look at this as a bust.
Jeff Teague is still an option, so are trades.
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In comment 15052957 UGADawgs7 said:
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In comment 15052952 Italianju said:
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Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
Georgia football, Kentucky basketball.
2012 Jon would have a field day with this.
2020 Jon is saving his energy.
What are Chris Duhon and Jeremy Lin up to?????
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In comment 15052971 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15052957 UGADawgs7 said:
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In comment 15052952 Italianju said:
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Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
Georgia football, Kentucky basketball.
2012 Jon would have a field day with this.
2020 Jon is saving his energy.
Really? Not the thread for this, but go on. I’ve been a Kentucky basketball fan since elementary school in the 90s, been a Georgia football fan since my parents got a summer house in Georgia and started to watch Georgia basketball even though they sucked but they’re my 2nd basketball team.
Bullock/Burks/quickley
RJ/Knox
Toppin/randle
Mitch/Ed Davis
Bullock/Burks/quickley
RJ/Knox
Toppin/randle
Mitch/Ed Davis
This is...a bad roster. Hayward helps a lot at the wing. Moving Randle is also a must at this point.
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frank/DSJ
Bullock/Burks/quickley
RJ/Knox
Toppin/randle
Mitch/Ed Davis
This is...a bad roster. Hayward helps a lot at the wing. Moving Randle is also a must at this point.
This is a 15 to 20 win team.
Randle and DSJ are big time minus players they destroy continuity.
I don't want to see another Randle's spin move into 2 defender turnover again.
30 million per is crazy but it works with Ball
Lakers can only go to 12 million.
Looks like another non-competitive season.
I would take 2 years of Rozier at 19 million per if you throw in some picks or swap Cody Zeller and Rozier for Randle and a pick.
Make it happen
They do have the $27.1M expiring contract of Nic Batum to waive and stretch.
Not sure I would want a $9M cap hit over 3 seasons though.
Might be worth throwing in a future 1 to see if NYK would bite on the money.
They do have the $27.1M expiring contract of Nic Batum to waive and stretch.
Not sure I would want a $9M cap hit over 3 seasons though.
Might be worth throwing in a future 1 to see if NYK would bite on the money.
I'd absolutely do that.
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Yes please
They do have the $27.1M expiring contract of Nic Batum to waive and stretch.
Not sure I would want a $9M cap hit over 3 seasons though.
Might be worth throwing in a future 1 to see if NYK would bite on the money.
I'd absolutely do that.
As long as it's not protected they are going to remain a lottery team for the next 3 years with the current line-up
They have some bad 1 year deals the Knicks can take on.
I agree but you need to find a way to move Randle to free up Toppin to start
So starting 5
right now
Frank
RJ
Burks
Robinson
Toppin
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but do it with the Young guys, let them play andnplay together, start building something
I agree but you need to find a way to move Randle to free up Toppin to start
So starting 5
right now
Frank
RJ
Burks
Robinson
Toppin
If Frank could shoot it would be fine, put the ball in RJ hands and let him go to work with Toppin..Mitch catches the lobs
2 teams with big space left are
Knicks 29 million
Hawks 25 million
That’s a lot of money for Hayward. I hope he stays healthy but I think the Knicks made the right move passing on that.
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Does anyone have a link, or know, what other teams have cap space left and how much?
2 teams with big space left are
Knicks 29 million
Hawks 25 million
Knicks still have 35 million, most likely will sign burks with the room mid level
PG: Teague, Frank, DSJ
SG: Burks, Bullock, Quickley
SF: RJ, Melo, Iggy
PF: Randle, Toppin, Knox
C: Mitch, Ed Davis
The silver lining is we should be in pole position for the Cade Cunningham sweepstakes
PG: Teague, Frank, DSJ
SG: Burks, Bullock, Quickley
SF: RJ, Melo, Iggy
PF: Randle, Toppin, Knox
C: Mitch, Ed Davis
The silver lining is we should be in pole position for the Cade Cunningham sweepstakes
Teague wants to go to a winner and said he doesn't mind coming off the bench.
They probably don't want Randle after signing Wood.
Only half kidding.
The cap floor doesn't kick in til the end of the season so they don't need to do anything before the season starts technically.
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..
The cap floor doesn't kick in til the end of the season so they don't need to do anything before the season starts technically.
no but still seems weird they are leaving their space wide open and not doing anything
Westbrook as a Knick...I'd vomit.
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In comment 15053185 nygiants16 said:
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..
The cap floor doesn't kick in til the end of the season so they don't need to do anything before the season starts technically.
no but still seems weird they are leaving their space wide open and not doing anything
I hear you, but there's still plenty of time. I'm hoping they are more creative than just bringing in KCP for 1 year 15 mil. They should call the Hornets and offer to take on Batum for a 1st, for example.
And if they planned on sitting out free agency- where have them been on these salary cap dump trades? The Knicks are by far the worst team at properly utilizing cap space. It’s hard to fathom.
But keep preaching cap flexibility...working out great.
Who knows how long the enemy list is. I've never even met him and I already don't like him.
And if they planned on sitting out free agency- where have them been on these salary cap dump trades? The Knicks are by far the worst team at properly utilizing cap space. It’s hard to fathom.
But keep preaching cap flexibility...working out great.
That is why i am in favor of taking salary dumps even if they drag for 2 or 3 years because nobody is coming here in FA anyway. You take the picks with the terrible contract and use the cap space to acquire assets at least instead of signing these pointless 1 year deal with mediocre vets year after year that gets you nowhere.
A deal like Wall for 2 or 3 unprotected 1st round picks i would do that in a heartbeat. Yeah it kills the cap going forward but its the assets that matter .
Knick fans love to say "just do a real rebuild, stop overpaying solid but not great players to huge money!". Then they dont sign Hayward and FVV and its "Same ole knicks".
Anyway, This is shaping up to be another Scott Perry offseason almost identical to last year. I have no idea why he wasnt fired along with Mills when Leon Rose came aboard.
Perry has never had a winning season anywhere hes been and has no idea how to construct a roster. He brings in Vets who take playing time away from the kids who need it instead of bringing in Vets who can help compliment them and help their game . He keeps capspace open for FA who never come instead of using it to take salary dumps to acquire assets.
When you have a terrible team you should prioritize and focus on development and that means giving young guys who are playing well in the Gleague a shot or young FA who need a change of scenery. Instead he signs older mediocre FA who only care about getting theirs while the young guys are either buried on the bench or frozen out on the court.
Truthfully it all goes back to Dolan anyway. Sam Presti was willing to listen and OKC was willing to let him walk but he rushed to sign Leon Rose and keep all his stooges at MSG who have been giving him the same shitty advice for 20 years instead . This team will never win a damn thing with Dolan . He will always hire the wrong people and even when he hires someone competent like Walsh, he has his cronies there to undermine him anyway
if he could fricken shoot he would be damn good
Also, keep in mind Toppin is NBA ready at 22 years old, at least offensively - unlike Frank, Knox and, to a lesser extent, RJ when they were rookies. He’ll play 30+ minutes and average 18 ppg.
And as I type this I see Melo’s in Portland and Scrub Payton is back on the cheap - even better.
He just signed a max extension
Well hopefully Frank made some strides and gets first crack at starting. Or maybe Quickly is an early surprise. So this is as of now? Yeesh.
Frank/Elf/Quickly/DSJ
Burks/bullock
RJ/Knox/ignas
Randle/Toppin
Mitch/Davis
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Will the Knicks look into Fox? I mean Perry did draft him in Sacramento.
He just signed a max extension
Oh, I missed that. I know he was in rumors a few days ago.
Well hopefully Frank made some strides and gets first crack at starting. Or maybe Quickly is an early surprise. So this is as of now? Yeesh.
Frank/Elf/Quickly/DSJ
Burks/bullock
RJ/Knox/ignas
Randle/Toppin
Mitch/Davis
It's actually a pretty decent frontcourt. But easily the worst backcourt in the NBA. Probably the worst starting PG AND SG, which is actually impressive.
If those are your 7-9 guys that's a fine bench. The problem is two of those guys are starters.
I was also hoping (still am hoping I suppose) that they can find a way to offload Randle somehow. He's blocking Toppin and he drags everyone else down when he's on the court.
Where's the creativity? Essentially no one else has the cap space for a Bogdan offer. Why not see you can steal a good player like Bogdan with nothing to lose if SAC matches.
It does seem like we're trending towards going to go star hunting again next summer so that should go well.
Im just not ready to trash this FO right now. Do i want them to move Randle, of course. Do i want them to attach assets to move Randle, no. And im guessing the line of teams that want Randle is pretty short. Did i want a Hayward or FVV, yes but at 25-30 per for them its a hard pill to swallow. Especially if it wasnt going to be combined with another fairly large move.
Lastly, why do we need KCP? What is the difference between KCP, Bullock, and Burks? There has to be a team out there who would attach some young player at the end of their bench if we take a 15 mill expiring from them. At least the young player could be some lucky find, lol.
But seriously, what about Shaq Harrison?
Frank Jackson
Thon Maker
Ante Zizic
Furkan Korkmaz
Skal
Cheick Diallo
Honestly, if we can't be competitive this year, I don't see why not. Take a chance on some of those guys. No need to dumpster dive like we did last year and just hand out a bunch of one-year deals to middling veterans. Take a chance on a few young guys. Giles, Skal, Thon Maker...
8 million
Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
10m
Appears the Knicks may have signed Elf Payton using their room exception, which means NY still has upwards of $30 million in cap space (more than twice as much as any other team in the NBA).
Will be interesting to see if they make a run at restricted free agent Bogdan Bogdanovic
Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
10m
Appears the Knicks may have signed Elf Payton using their room exception, which means NY still has upwards of $30 million in cap space (more than twice as much as any other team in the NBA).
Am so confused how these exceptions work but that’s good.
Will be interesting to see if they make a run at restricted free agent Bogdan Bogdanovic
Hayward signed with the Hornets
Can't you trade for one? The NBA is so complex with their rules.
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Teams can only use the exceptions (MLE, Room, and BAE) if they go over the cap for that given offseason. We'd have to eat into our cap first before being allowed use of these exceptions. Unless things have changed for this particular offseason.
Can't you trade for one? The NBA is so complex with their rules.
Yes, the traded player exception... plus the disabled player exception (Klay), Larry Bird exception, minimum salary exception... indeed, complicated.
Yeah i think you need to use all your cap space first, so if it is being reported it is for the room exception, maybe the Knicks have a move where they are using all their space?
This. It’s not a separate designation or anything like that. They only use the exception if they need to.
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Taking on a bad contract for a 2nd round pick
Hayward signed with the Hornets
I know, I should have said 2 years from now
That's a good signing for the Cs after trading Kanter to Portland.
The kid is what? 6'8? And has crazy ball handles. A true point forward. I hate to make this comparison, but he reminds me of a more athletic Doncic.
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Dear Basketball gods, somehow let this kid end up a Knick.
The kid is what? 6'8? And has crazy ball handles. A true point forward. I hate to make this comparison, but he reminds me of a more athletic Doncic.
He looks like the goods. If he's Doncic...JFC. I think Luka is going to win multiple MVPs. That kid is special.
The Knicks are basically the only team with cap space left. I suspect several teams will need money to sign additional FA- the Knicks can facilitate by taking expiring deals plus picks to allow signings.
Lol
He's too busy tweeting inspirational stories
Players want to go there. I dont believe the Knicks would have this issue if players wanted to be there either.
If they want to tank to this year- that’s fine and probably a smart move. But where were they for the salary cap dump trades? So they either misjudged free agency really badly or they are opposed to those moves for some reason.
The Knicks and their fans have a weird fascination with cap space. I really wished they stopped focusing on that and started to bring in good players.
They did add shooting and probably will add a bit more.
They did add shooting and probably will add a bit more.
It seems like they would have had to attach some draft capital or youth to Randle right now that they didn’t want to do. It still is possible Randle is used in a high priced PG trade. NYK aren’t done yet, but is possible the plan was trade all along?
Yep, I think it goes back to all those years we were in salary cap hell - now that we have space, we only want to give long-term deals to Hall of Famers. They’ll get aggressive next offseason - no way they sit out two straight free agencies with all this money.
I felt they passed up PG at 8 and 25 because they were going to fill the need in FA.
But it sounds like they made zero effort after any of the available.
I worry that Westbrook or Wall could be a deal they are trying to make.
I would be fine with Conley but why would utah dump the salary now?
Maybe at the deadline.
The Knicks and their fans have a weird fascination with cap space. I really wished they stopped focusing on that and started to bring in good players.
What did you want to see happen here? You wanted to dump 80m on Fred van vent?
It's a bad free agency year. This isn't passing on 26 year old Chris Paul in free agency.
Honestly I think thats the plan. No way Rose and co came here to add this pile of shmeg and call it a day.
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Or is it? I'm cool with this, but is Thibs? I still have this feeling Rose and Wes will wait for Houston to blink with Russ.
Honestly I think thats the plan. No way Rose and co came here to add this pile of shmeg and call it a day.
I think you give them too much credit.
They thought they could walk in and because it was Rose and company attract top talent.
I don't believe there was a plan past that and I am afraid they will get desperate once the L's build up and Fans get restless.
And here comes Westbrook or worse Wall.
Van Vleet with Gordon Hayward would make us what exactly? A fifth seed in the east? So, don’t think we’re attractive enough yet until we hit on a young guy, which I believe we don’t have a potential superstar on the roster yet. Players develop however, and I think we need to grit it out another couple years, maintaining space to pair with our homegrown players.
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In comment 15053411 Spider43 said:
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Or is it? I'm cool with this, but is Thibs? I still have this feeling Rose and Wes will wait for Houston to blink with Russ.
Honestly I think thats the plan. No way Rose and co came here to add this pile of shmeg and call it a day.
I think you give them too much credit.
They thought they could walk in and because it was Rose and company attract top talent.
I don't believe there was a plan past that and I am afraid they will get desperate once the L's build up and Fans get restless.
And here comes Westbrook or worse Wall.
Just stop. What top talent did you think Rose and company thought they could attract but didn’t? This FA class was shit and reports are they never made an offfer to VanVleet. They had interest in Hayward but there’s no way they were planning on giving him the contract Charlotte did. If they did they should all be fired on the spot. So again, what “top talent” do you think they thought was a lock because of who they are and got shot down by? They did the right thing and passed on giving average players elite money.
just admit it, YOU wanted them to sign top talent. Whether that actually existed isn’t important I guess...
If they want to tank to this year- that’s fine and probably a smart move. But where were they for the salary cap dump trades? So they either misjudged free agency really badly or they are opposed to those moves for some reason.
The Knicks and their fans have a weird fascination with cap space. I really wished they stopped focusing on that and started to bring in good players.
to be fair they drafted 2 guys who can shoot the 3 and burks waa 42% from 3 laat year..
the Payton signing sucks becauae i hooed for an upgrade but he is not thebworst player in theworld..
I had this argument with a friend. He loves FVV and said we needed to get him. I said no we don't need to get him. His argument was that he would get the young kids to play better, is a great player, and fans in NY would fall in love with how he plays. I said I agree with all of that but if you sign him and Haward or not a legit star then you are stuck in basketball purgatory imo and that is worse than basketball hell. Imo, we give it one more year to try to land a big fish or 2 (2 is more likely than one imo) next FA period. We continue to sign guys to 1 year deals and focus on developing the youth again. And while FVV would be great for this team, is he a guy that moves the needle for a FA next year to come here? I don't think so. I think the odds are greater to have 2 max spots open and ha e 2 FA pair up then to get one guy with balls to say let me be the guy that can turn that franchise around. If we strike out next year then we can start taking on multi year contracts for much better assets. There is nothing wrong with waiting 1 more year and going all in. This draft class was garbage compared to next year so why completely take yourself out of at least a shot for some lackluster players? And please spare me the "FA aren't coming here" routine. We all get it. We've been burned before. But if you gave up after 5 different girls saying no does that mean you're gonna go join a church and become a priest or are you going to keep trying until you find the right match? You only have to get one person to say yes before everything changes for the better. The goal this year is development. That means both our young kids and our culture.
He needs to come off the bench, he can be the bench scoring
He needs to come off the bench, he can be the bench scoring
I still think Randle for Conley makes so much sense. We take on the bigger contract while getting a PG that can help develop these bigs.
Would Burks start?
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Frank, Burks, Quickley, Knox, Noel..
Would Burks start?
Either him or bullock as of right now i guess
Hoping we see growth from the young guys, get one more high pick in a much better draft, and make a move in what should be a better FA class.
Also, they're not tanking. Why hire Thibs in his dream job and ask him to tank. They won't win many games, but that won't on purpose.
He needs to come off the bench, he can be the bench scoring
Totally agree. Need to let the young players sink or swim. But without question they are entering the year with the worst roster in the league.
Any news on Bogdan? Or throwing a loaded poisoned offer at Ingram? Hopefully they can help execute a trade with the cap space and get a pick
in season.
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In comment 15053419 Stu11 said:
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In comment 15053411 Spider43 said:
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Or is it? I'm cool with this, but is Thibs? I still have this feeling Rose and Wes will wait for Houston to blink with Russ.
Honestly I think thats the plan. No way Rose and co came here to add this pile of shmeg and call it a day.
I think you give them too much credit.
They thought they could walk in and because it was Rose and company attract top talent.
I don't believe there was a plan past that and I am afraid they will get desperate once the L's build up and Fans get restless.
And here comes Westbrook or worse Wall.
Just stop. What top talent did you think Rose and company thought they could attract but didn’t? This FA class was shit and reports are they never made an offfer to VanVleet. They had interest in Hayward but there’s no way they were planning on giving him the contract Charlotte did. If they did they should all be fired on the spot. So again, what “top talent” do you think they thought was a lock because of who they are and got shot down by? They did the right thing and passed on giving average players elite money.
just admit it, YOU wanted them to sign top talent. Whether that actually existed isn’t important I guess...
I wanted VanVleet and Christian Wood both under 26 and hitting their prime.
But my point is I don't think there is a cohesive rebuild going on.
If Toppin turns out to be and all-star that can lift a team I will admit I am wrong.
After only hitting on Morris in FA last year that turned into a pick.
This year it looks like they made no effort to go after any of the good young talent available.
They could have used the cap space to add salary for picks but failed there also.
All I am saying I have zero confidence in this front office and believe they are over their heads and have done nothing to show me different.
I am more then fine giving Frank and even Smith Jr. 25-30 mins a night as a final chance to see what they have. I am very bullish on Frank showing significant improvement this year, not sure about smith jr. I think it’s mostly mental with him and maybe good coaching can help that, but ultimately he probably gets traded. I think Payton is signed because he is a pretty good distributor and can help in the starting line up, but I would expect he only sees 15-20 mins a night.
My ideal rotation:
PG - Payton/Frank
SG - Burks/quickly/Bullock
SF - Barrett/Iggy
PF - Toppin/Knox
C - Mitch/Noels
Alec Burks - shot 41 percent from 3, 46 percent overall, 1 year 6 million - can give solid mins every night and can def get another 2nd rounder at trade deadline for a contender
Norlen Noel’s - still only 26, while I think we know he isn’t going to be a superstar, he def showed significant improvement last year. Scores very efficiently and plays very good defense, he will be a good backup center and is worthy of a 1 year look.
Not sure why bullock was picked up, maybe for future trade bait. I am assuming Ed Davis and Randle are def traded before the beginnng of the year.
As long as these guys play hard I am fine with a 15-20 win season if the young guys are improving and getting bigger minutes. We have assets to make a big trade, hopefully bradley Beale and we will have a very high lottery pick in a stacked draft. Additionally with Porzingis starting the year not playing and the West being so deep, it’s not impossible for that Dallas pick to fall into the lottery. That’s how deep te west is although the kla thompson injury hurts GS chances.
Frank as the starter works better, put the ball in RJs hands and let him work with Toppin
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In comment 15053422 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 15053419 Stu11 said:
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In comment 15053411 Spider43 said:
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Or is it? I'm cool with this, but is Thibs? I still have this feeling Rose and Wes will wait for Houston to blink with Russ.
Honestly I think thats the plan. No way Rose and co came here to add this pile of shmeg and call it a day.
I think you give them too much credit.
They thought they could walk in and because it was Rose and company attract top talent.
I don't believe there was a plan past that and I am afraid they will get desperate once the L's build up and Fans get restless.
And here comes Westbrook or worse Wall.
Just stop. What top talent did you think Rose and company thought they could attract but didn’t? This FA class was shit and reports are they never made an offfer to VanVleet. They had interest in Hayward but there’s no way they were planning on giving him the contract Charlotte did. If they did they should all be fired on the spot. So again, what “top talent” do you think they thought was a lock because of who they are and got shot down by? They did the right thing and passed on giving average players elite money.
just admit it, YOU wanted them to sign top talent. Whether that actually existed isn’t important I guess...
I wanted VanVleet and Christian Wood both under 26 and hitting their prime.
But my point is I don't think there is a cohesive rebuild going on.
If Toppin turns out to be and all-star that can lift a team I will admit I am wrong.
After only hitting on Morris in FA last year that turned into a pick.
This year it looks like they made no effort to go after any of the good young talent available.
They could have used the cap space to add salary for picks but failed there also.
All I am saying I have zero confidence in this front office and believe they are over their heads and have done nothing to show me different.
Please point out where they failed at taking on salary to add picks. You are completely missing the picture here. Why the fuck would we take on multiple years of a bad contract for picks when those picks will be sure to suck instead of keeping our cap space open for next offseason? Imo, your plan would have been fine LAST year. This year it is out of the question to clog up our cap space for the 2021 FAs.
Apparently Giannis and Bogdan are close, which also can't hurt anything.
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In comment 15053467 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15053422 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 15053419 Stu11 said:
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In comment 15053411 Spider43 said:
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Or is it? I'm cool with this, but is Thibs? I still have this feeling Rose and Wes will wait for Houston to blink with Russ.
Honestly I think thats the plan. No way Rose and co came here to add this pile of shmeg and call it a day.
I think you give them too much credit.
They thought they could walk in and because it was Rose and company attract top talent.
I don't believe there was a plan past that and I am afraid they will get desperate once the L's build up and Fans get restless.
And here comes Westbrook or worse Wall.
Just stop. What top talent did you think Rose and company thought they could attract but didn’t? This FA class was shit and reports are they never made an offfer to VanVleet. They had interest in Hayward but there’s no way they were planning on giving him the contract Charlotte did. If they did they should all be fired on the spot. So again, what “top talent” do you think they thought was a lock because of who they are and got shot down by? They did the right thing and passed on giving average players elite money.
just admit it, YOU wanted them to sign top talent. Whether that actually existed isn’t important I guess...
I wanted VanVleet and Christian Wood both under 26 and hitting their prime.
But my point is I don't think there is a cohesive rebuild going on.
If Toppin turns out to be and all-star that can lift a team I will admit I am wrong.
After only hitting on Morris in FA last year that turned into a pick.
This year it looks like they made no effort to go after any of the good young talent available.
They could have used the cap space to add salary for picks but failed there also.
All I am saying I have zero confidence in this front office and believe they are over their heads and have done nothing to show me different.
Please point out where they failed at taking on salary to add picks. You are completely missing the picture here. Why the fuck would we take on multiple years of a bad contract for picks when those picks will be sure to suck instead of keeping our cap space open for next offseason? Imo, your plan would have been fine LAST year. This year it is out of the question to clog up our cap space for the 2021 FAs.
I am saying they never use the cap space correctly and we either kick it down the road for the next big year or sign mid tier players with little upside.
The next FA big year is not coming for the Knicks until they get some young viable talent.
Which I am not confident Rose and company are qualified to choose either in FA or the draft.
I would be focused on trying to get another pick in the draft rather then free agency.
I would be focused on trying to get another pick in the draft rather then free agency.
It's a year away so why would we have a list if who specifically we are focused on and even if we did why would that be public? You still haven't answered my question of how this team fucked up by missing out on contracts dumped.
When the FA players are better you'll have more options for dumps. Anything you are complaining about this year can be done next year which would give us a better payout to take in contracts. You are being irrational and emotional about the Knicks actions so far.
I would be focused on trying to get another pick in the draft rather then free agency.
It's really top heavy. Giannis, probably Kawhi, Paul George, and Lebron. Then there's a decent sized second tier with Oladipo, Gobert, Jrue Holiday, Lowry.
The real prize is Giannis who is still only 25. Tough to see any of the others in the top group leaving (pending what happens with LAC this year), and Giannis might not either.
Very true.
I was not a fan of the Rose hire and the Tibs hire so maybe I am projecting the past failures but last 2 off season have shown more of the same.
Listen I am not going anywhere and will still root and watch.
Hopefully these kids surprise and something breaks right.
I think they should make a run at Bogdan. Perhaps there is still a team looking to shed a bit of salary due to luxury or cap, and we can pick up a small asset.
Overall im fine with this offseason
Knicks’ free-agency flop means tank is on for Cade Cunningham - ( New Window )
Not a FVV fan at all, at 20M+ per. Would've liked them to roll the dice on RJ Hampton, maybe Quickley would've been available at 33.
I've got no problem with their approach this offseason. Just don't fuck it up now and add Westbrook/Wall.
Need ping pong ball luck, and progression from the young guys now.
PG - Payton/Frank
SG - Burks/quickly/Bullock
SF - Barrett/Iggy
PF - Toppin/Knox
C - Mitch/Noels"
As Carl pointed out, that rotation doesn't include Randle. He'll play over Iggy and maybe over Knox as well.
Thibs - CAA
Toppin - CAA
Quickley - Kentucky
Noel - Kentucky
Burks - Utah
Even Payton who is a familiar face is repped by CAA
Obviously there is a big trend with CAA/Kentucky, and Randle happens to have both of those ties. Clearly we all want to see him gone, it is probably in the best interest of developing the young guys on the team, but it seems to go against everything that this new FO has done thus far.
Cunningham is very good.
Not that I care because the NCAA is the height of hypocrisy and phoniness, but how they allow the obvious quid pro quo with Boynton hiring Cunningham’s brother to be his assistant at Oak St is really laugh out loud stuff...
I know RJ can't shoot, but I feel he can take SG's down in the post better than he can break down opposing SF's. We have more front court players anyway. Try him at SG. I like Burks coming out of college, but he hasn't done much as a pro.
Thibs - CAA
Toppin - CAA
Quickley - Kentucky
Noel - Kentucky
Burks - Utah
Even Payton who is a familiar face is repped by CAA
Obviously there is a big trend with CAA/Kentucky, and Randle happens to have both of those ties. Clearly we all want to see him gone, it is probably in the best interest of developing the young guys on the team, but it seems to go against everything that this new FO has done thus far.
you realize half the NBA is repped by CAA right?
I would agree. From what I've seen at this level, he looks like hot garbage to me.
And I can't imagine Thibs, and Dolan, being down with 'Tank 4 Cade'. Not after all the disasters we've had in the past couple of years. I still think the FO will be looking to upgrade the 1 at some point, this season.
Love what the Hawks have done.
Should be a fun team to watch.
Gallinari
Rondo
Bogdanovic
Dunn.
Brought in 2 solid vets to a young team.
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I keep seeing this everywhere so I have to ask. Who exactlly are the Knicks targeting in 2021 free agency?
I would be focused on trying to get another pick in the draft rather then free agency.
It's a year away so why would we have a list if who specifically we are focused on and even if we did why would that be public? You still haven't answered my question of how this team fucked up by missing out on contracts dumped.
When the FA players are better you'll have more options for dumps. Anything you are complaining about this year can be done next year which would give us a better payout to take in contracts. You are being irrational and emotional about the Knicks actions so far.
Sorry to keep you waiting... I would have been involved in the Horford and Ariza trades. And just because a trade didn't occur doesn't mean it wasn't possible. I would venture to guess a top GM could have used this cap room to acquire some assets. I guarantee there was a deal with Charlotte possible for them to get off the Batum contract.
Tons of writers, analysts and fans keep pointing to this big 2021 free agent class. So who exactly do they have a shot at? I just don't see any plausible scenario where the top guys even consider the Knicks next summer.
So your reasoning is that because next years class is better there will be more options for dumps? Explain to me why you can't do it this year and next? They don't have anyone on the books next year for big money...
If their strategy is to tank this year and go young- then fine I'm good with that. But at least go all in with that and don't half measure it. "Cap flexibility" does absolutely nothing unless you use it to your advantage.
I have also said that we need to be more attractive to FA and winning is part of that. I get it. I just view our path to being a legit contender different. I'm not looking to be good. I don't want to be stuck in basketball purgatory. I want to be great. I don't think taking on multi year deals this year is the right way to do that. I want to build a legit contender.
That could be huge in middle of the season when teams need to dump salaries to try to make trades and being the only team available to take on salary dumps could get some big assets back . The best thing they can do right now outside of trading Randle , is just stand pat and be patient .
There are going to be oppurtinites to get maybe more then 1 1st round pick in these salary dumps when teams get desperate during the season to improve their team . Much better option then throwing out another pointless contract for a mediocre vet that accomplishes nothing .
4/72
Just for us to lose the Lottery again...
BTW, we re-signed Theo Pinson to a two-way deal
One-year deal with Portland
Why would the knicks take a flyer on a young guy ? They have more mediocre Vets to sign to try to squeeze out a few more meaningless wins and ruin the development of the young players on the team in the process and the draft positioning as well .
Only properly run organizations would make a move like that
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I couldn’t find anything updated on him. Too much talent to not take a shot.
Why would the knicks take a flyer on a young guy ? They have more mediocre Vets to sign to try to squeeze out a few more meaningless wins and ruin the development of the young players on the team in the process and the draft positioning as well .
Only properly run organizations would make a move like that
It doesnt matter if you lose every game, you are not guaranteed to win thr lottery..They tanked perfectly for Zion and still didnt get him..
New rules just losing on purpose doesnt work..
Let the young players play if younlose great, if you win great..
If talks progress, New York would surely require at least one additional asset from the Lakers to take McGee into salary-cap space
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In comment 15053824 Carl in CT said:
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I couldn’t find anything updated on him. Too much talent to not take a shot.
Why would the knicks take a flyer on a young guy ? They have more mediocre Vets to sign to try to squeeze out a few more meaningless wins and ruin the development of the young players on the team in the process and the draft positioning as well .
Only properly run organizations would make a move like that
It doesnt matter if you lose every game, you are not guaranteed to win thr lottery..They tanked perfectly for Zion and still didnt get him..
New rules just losing on purpose doesnt work..
Let the young players play if younlose great, if you win great..
Yeah i agree . I have no issue if the knicks were winning games with RJ, Obi, Mitch leading the charge but last year it was the Morris, Randle, Payton, Taj gibson show while RJ had to sit in the corner getting frozen out and Mitch came off the bench a lot of games .
This year they are setting up a repeat of the Randle/Payton show instead of letting the young guys be the priority. Those 2 are literally the worst pieces you can out around your young guys to help them grow and improve their games.
They are selfish players looking for their next paycheck, they cant shoot so they kill spacing, and they freeze out the young guys on the court . the Knicks should be doing everything to build around their youth instead of hurting their development
If talks progress, New York would surely require at least one additional asset from the Lakers to take McGee into salary-cap space
IF the Knicks stay patient they can gain so many assets doing this through the season. They are literally the only team who have capspace now . No more signing FA
If talks progress, New York would surely require at least one additional asset from the Lakers to take McGee into salary-cap space
Haha. McGee has the talent of a top pick and the basketball IQ of a 5 year old.
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The Knicks have emerged as a potential trade partner for the Lakers in a JaVale McGee deal, league sources say, as LA explores its various options
If talks progress, New York would surely require at least one additional asset from the Lakers to take McGee into salary-cap space
Haha. McGee has the talent of a top pick and the basketball IQ of a 5 year old.
Looks like a 3 team sign and trade for Gasol and Knicks would pick up a 2nd
Can you post anything insightful?
Building G-league championships!
What exactly do you think you add to this site
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Can you post anything insightful?
What exactly do you think you add to this site
When you cook a fried egg make sure to poke the white part and let it spread out so the white part isn’t runny and weird while the yolk is a little runny.
I added that. You shit on the Knicks. Every post. That’s old.
But dude it’s every post and we know they suck. You’re also assuming things. Hey whatever makes you feel better but you don’t know that rose will fail here. This last weekend doesn’t cement anything. Ok they didn’t get anyone but, so, we should pack up and quit?
Changing gears I still can’t process that so many here advocated getting Haywood but treat Westbrook like a leper. I could live with 2 years for Haywood but holy fucking shit 4 years well over 100 mil? Christ... that dude is a physical wreck lately. Whatever works...
Don't think he'll ever be a premier starter, but could be really great as a role player. 3/D guy with upside.
Doesn't make me feel better,not in the least.Ultimately what's gonna happen here is it's gonna be up to the fans,because Dolan is not gonna do shit.He's too stubborn and spiteful to help you,and too rich for the league to intervene.
They are forever away from contending.
They are forever away from contending.
You need RJ, Toppin and Mitch to show their potential..
They are forever away from contending.
Don't have to hit the lottery just find a superstar in the draft.
Toppin and RJ could be those guys Also next year's draft is expected to be loaded with talent.
Keep adding 1st round picks and roll the dice.
That is today's NBA.
That’s half a mil a game, if the team doesn’t rest him. Or 170$ per second. I don’t begrudge football players from getting big money because of the physical demand and contracts are not guaranteed, or baseball players because of the grind and, well, hitting a baseball is damn hard.
You think Conley has earned half the money on his contract? Simply absurd.
Fred Van Vleet was undrafted. Tyler Herro was pick 13. Bam Adebayo was pick 14. You can develop core players in the draft. You don't need to just win the lottery and draft top 3 to have a future.
He has been pretty good for Houston past couple of years
Feel like a trade is coming, wonder if Thibs plays him as a point guard
That’s half a mil a game, if the team doesn’t rest him. Or 170$ per second. I don’t begrudge football players from getting big money because of the physical demand and contracts are not guaranteed, or baseball players because of the grind and, well, hitting a baseball is damn hard.
You think Conley has earned half the money on his contract? Simply absurd.
so who should get the money? The owners? It's a more a function of the rosters being smaller compared to other sports. And of course there are the players who get the max who are actually underpaid.
That’s half a mil a game, if the team doesn’t rest him. Or 170$ per second. I don’t begrudge football players from getting big money because of the physical demand and contracts are not guaranteed, or baseball players because of the grind and, well, hitting a baseball is damn hard.
You think Conley has earned half the money on his contract? Simply absurd.
Tatum is 100% a max player..
Mitchell 100% a max player..
Fox is a little questionable but you habe to max him
Don't think he'll ever be a premier starter, but could be really great as a role player. 3/D guy with upside.
Came across this draft profile, pretty in-depth look. Might turn out to be a steal.
Quickley draft profile - ( New Window )
or a combination of a few
Ed Davis to Minnesota for Omari Spellman, Jacob Evans II and a second round pick
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Minnesota is trading Omari Spellman and Jacob Evans and a future second-round pick to New York for F Ed Davis, sources tell ESPN
Is this really the best we can do?
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Tatum? Fox too? Thank god the Knicks have nobody to give it to. He’s maybe a top 20 player. Is he going to carry a team to a championship? I doubt it. Do fans pay to see him play? Prob not many.
That’s half a mil a game, if the team doesn’t rest him. Or 170$ per second. I don’t begrudge football players from getting big money because of the physical demand and contracts are not guaranteed, or baseball players because of the grind and, well, hitting a baseball is damn hard.
You think Conley has earned half the money on his contract? Simply absurd.
Tatum is 100% a max player..
Mitchell 100% a max player..
Fox is a little questionable but you habe to max him
I love Fox's game. I have no qualms about giving him max $. And obviously Tatum & Mitchell are max guys as well.
3 2nds for ed davis
We will own the second round!
Austin Rivers 3 years 10 million
Austin Rivers 3 years 10 million
The AAV is not much, but 3 years!?!? For Rivers!?!? Why?
I don't get it from either perspective. Why would Rivers be okay with 3M per and why would the Knicks want to give him a 3 year deal?
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I dont understand it from his perspective. Why lock into 3 years and make yourself a bargain.
I don't get it from either perspective. Why would Rivers be okay with 3M per and why would the Knicks want to give him a 3 year deal?
I don't think this hurts the Knicks at all.
It's a easy to move contract and if he works out he is locked up for very little.
It's a stupid move for Rivers who is his agent to talk him into that deal?
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In comment 15054217 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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I dont understand it from his perspective. Why lock into 3 years and make yourself a bargain.
I don't get it from either perspective. Why would Rivers be okay with 3M per and why would the Knicks want to give him a 3 year deal?
I don't think this hurts the Knicks at all.
It's a easy to move contract and if he works out he is locked up for very little.
It's a stupid move for Rivers who is his agent to talk him into that deal?
Doesn't hurt the Knicks really, but IDK why they would give Austin Rivers a three-year deal
@VinceGoodwill
The Pistons are expected to waive and stretch recent acquisition Zhaire Smith following trade for Tony Bradley, sources say
@IanBegley
·
31s
The final two years of Austin Rivers’ three-year deal with the Knicks are non-guaranteed, per SNY sources. He has a three-year, $10 million deal, ESPN reports.
@IanBegley
·
31s
The final two years of Austin Rivers’ three-year deal with the Knicks are non-guaranteed, per SNY sources. He has a three-year, $10 million deal, ESPN reports.
Uhhhh, does Austin Rivers have an agent? That's a terrible deal for him.
And I just ordered his jersey...damn
off the top of my head..
2 1sts in 21, 1 1st and 1 2nd 22, 2 1sts in 23 5 2nds 23 i believe
Similar to Marcus Morris last season.
There was a mention by Berman that we may waive both.
Knicks Receive: Kemba Walker
Celtics Receive: Dennis Smith Jr., Julius Randle, 2021 1st Round Pick (via DAL), 2023 1st Round Pick (via DAL)
Trade idea - ( New Window )
Knicks Receive: Kemba Walker
Celtics Receive: Dennis Smith Jr., Julius Randle, 2021 1st Round Pick (via DAL), 2023 1st Round Pick (via DAL)
Trade idea - ( New Window )
Why would the Celtics do that?
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The Hypothetical Trade
Knicks Receive: Kemba Walker
Celtics Receive: Dennis Smith Jr., Julius Randle, 2021 1st Round Pick (via DAL), 2023 1st Round Pick (via DAL)
Trade idea - ( New Window )
Why would the Celtics do that?
Why it’s because they would be getting back the oh so talented Dennis Smith JR and all that potential.
Dennis Smith has ZERO value. As in NO value. He’s one more failed reclamation project away from being thrown out of the NBA for good. These articles and takes that reference Smith as someone who actually carries weight just kill me.