My top two goals for this team are to fix this culture (yes, that does mean start winning games too which may be tough) and to maintain our cap flexibility for next offseason. This is not the year to be spending big. I'm sure we'll still be left standing at the alter next year but you miss 100% of the chances you don't take. I cant imagine too many teams being able to fix multiple max money players next offseason. That is a huge selling point to FA. They get to pick their teammates. However, we know where we have fallen short in the past. It was our culture and the supporting cast. So, how do you fix that? The culture thing is tough because of decades of shitty handling of this team. But hopefully this new regime gets a better rep. Also, we need these kids to develop fast particularly Toppin and Barrett. I think that can be accomplished. That is why I said I would target 1 year vets this year like last year.
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
I could be wrong here, but wouldn’t it make sense to trade for a guy like Kemba who can help guys like Barrett and Toppin? I feel like trading for a guy like him may be able to attract a FA next year and makes $10M less than Westbrook. I’m just not totally sure if they sign FVV if he would be able to attract a big time FA.
Things did pick up in the end. I have this sense of dread however... that we're saving our cap space for something big. Johnny Wall might enter into the equation now, aside from Russ. If Rose is truly saving our cap space for next offseason, then great. But we still need a point guard, there's no way Thibs will be satisfied heading into the season with Quickley, Frankie, and DSJ. I just hope it'll be a smart move, fingers crossed.
Marc Stein
Indiana remains Gordon Hayward's preferred destination, league sources say, which requires a sign-and-trade with the Celtics to net the former Butler star a deal estimated in the four-year, $100 million range
He’s from Indy, his family is there and has made it known that’s where he wants to go all along. He’s making Ainge’s job pretty easy as long as he doesn’t get greedy.
My top two goals for this team are to fix this culture (yes, that does mean start winning games too which may be tough) and to maintain our cap flexibility for next offseason. This is not the year to be spending big. I'm sure we'll still be left standing at the alter next year but you miss 100% of the chances you don't take. I cant imagine too many teams being able to fix multiple max money players next offseason. That is a huge selling point to FA. They get to pick their teammates. However, we know where we have fallen short in the past. It was our culture and the supporting cast. So, how do you fix that? The culture thing is tough because of decades of shitty handling of this team. But hopefully this new regime gets a better rep. Also, we need these kids to develop fast particularly Toppin and Barrett. I think that can be accomplished. That is why I said I would target 1 year vets this year like last year.
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
I could be wrong here, but wouldn’t it make sense to trade for a guy like Kemba who can help guys like Barrett and Toppin? I feel like trading for a guy like him may be able to attract a FA next year and makes $10M less than Westbrook. I’m just not totally sure if they sign FVV if he would be able to attract a big time FA.
Kemba is a guy that can attract another player. Absolutely. But of you trade for Kemba then what are you giving up? If it is just Kemba on your roster and nothing else then it really isn't all that attractive.
My top two goals for this team are to fix this culture (yes, that does mean start winning games too which may be tough) and to maintain our cap flexibility for next offseason. This is not the year to be spending big. I'm sure we'll still be left standing at the alter next year but you miss 100% of the chances you don't take. I cant imagine too many teams being able to fix multiple max money players next offseason. That is a huge selling point to FA. They get to pick their teammates. However, we know where we have fallen short in the past. It was our culture and the supporting cast. So, how do you fix that? The culture thing is tough because of decades of shitty handling of this team. But hopefully this new regime gets a better rep. Also, we need these kids to develop fast particularly Toppin and Barrett. I think that can be accomplished. That is why I said I would target 1 year vets this year like last year.
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
I could be wrong here, but wouldn’t it make sense to trade for a guy like Kemba who can help guys like Barrett and Toppin? I feel like trading for a guy like him may be able to attract a FA next year and makes $10M less than Westbrook. I’m just not totally sure if they sign FVV if he would be able to attract a big time FA.
Kemba is a guy that can attract another player. Absolutely. But of you trade for Kemba then what are you giving up? If it is just Kemba on your roster and nothing else then it really isn't all that attractive.
Doesn’t Boston supposedly want to shed salary? A Randle trade could make sense there and they don’t need Knox as they have Tatum and Jaylen Brown as Forwards, maybe DSJ or Frank goes with Randle in a Walker trade? Also could move one of the Mavs picks or something? I don’t know exactly what.
I also am very confused with the Hayward thing as to why it’s a sign/ trade if he declined the $35M figured he’d be a UFA and can go anywhere he wants as a UFA
yesterday went. This FA class is not good. Even Hayward at 4/100 or whatever is not a deal i think the knicks should make.
If we can help a taem shed salary, great. If we cant then i guess overpay guys on one year deals. Hopefully get a couple Marcus Morris type assets and not Bobby Portis.
I like Burks, def need a vet PG and of course id love to move Randle, but outside of this message board you havent heard a damn thing about that, haha.
I also am very confused with the Hayward thing as to why it’s a sign/ trade if he declined the $35M figured he’d be a UFA and can go anywhere he wants as a UFA
Indiana has no cap space. Technically they are over the cap.
Things did pick up in the end. I have this sense of dread however... that we're saving our cap space for something big. Johnny Wall might enter into the equation now, aside from Russ. If Rose is truly saving our cap space for next offseason, then great. But we still need a point guard, there's no way Thibs will be satisfied heading into the season with Quickley, Frankie, and DSJ. I just hope it'll be a smart move, fingers crossed.
Thibs is why I don't think we sit & wait for next year. He didn't sign up to coach the roster as currently constructed. And,I would imagine he was promised a roster that could compete for a playoff spot. It's why I'd be amazed if we fill the roster with players like last year. Myself, I have mixed emotions about pursuing a Westbrook,Hayward or even a Wall. But,continuing the wishing & hoping until next FA season just pushes the problem under the rug for another season. They need a quality vet to help them get into the playoffs as to change the entire league perception of the Knicks. Without changing that,it's same old,same old ,year after year!
but there was no way they guaranteed him anything. I mean first of all they had no idea who they could get. Supposedly Thibs really wanted to coach the knicks, perhaps he was more worried bout trying to get some assurances that he wont be fired in 2 seasons during a rebuild.
Im all for winning vs tanking. I was on board with Paul, i can live with hayward (but 4/100 is a lot for him), but guys like Russ/Wall dont make sense. You need to make sure you are both making the team better short term and long term. Russ stunts the growth of the young guys. I like Russ but he needs the ball all the time, that will hurt RJ and Obi. Wall you have no idea how healthy he even is.
he is a descent vet, good shooter and wont be expensive. I wouldnt mind a guy like Reggie Jackson or Teague, but Augustine is the better shooter. I know its not going to really move the needle but i think we end up with Augustine, Melo, and a vet big (I like Baynes). The key is guys like RJ and Mitch taking steps and Obi being the right pick. Those are the first steps to becoming respectable
but there was no way they guaranteed him anything. I mean first of all they had no idea who they could get. Supposedly Thibs really wanted to coach the knicks, perhaps he was more worried bout trying to get some assurances that he wont be fired in 2 seasons during a rebuild.
Im all for winning vs tanking. I was on board with Paul, i can live with hayward (but 4/100 is a lot for him), but guys like Russ/Wall dont make sense. You need to make sure you are both making the team better short term and long term. Russ stunts the growth of the young guys. I like Russ but he needs the ball all the time, that will hurt RJ and Obi. Wall you have no idea how healthy he even is.
I’m not saying that I want Russ, his contract and age scares me. But I don’t get this idea that people keep saying about stunting other players growth and that he needs the ball all the time. Everywhere he’s been, getting other players involved has not been an issue whatsoever. People act like he’s just a chucker. You don’t average close to a triple double because you’re an unwilling passer. Is he going to control the ball most of the time? Welll yeah, he’s the point guard. This isn’t Melo here. Westbrook is not a ball stopper. I get not thinking the contract this late in his career is a good fit for where this team is currently at. What I don’t get is the idea that RJ and Toppin will somehow suffer and not develop or be involved with the offense
The Hayward deal right they are offering 3 yrs at 70 million if the Indy deal falls through.
Also sounds like the are looking for a similar deal to last year for Pope like a 1 yr 16 million with a team option.
The Hayward deal right they are offering 3 yrs at 70 million if the Indy deal falls through.
Also sounds like the are looking for a similar deal to last year for Pope like a 1 yr 16 million with a team option.
2 questions I have about this besides why.
1. In the NBA can we front load a contract this year to make next year's cap number very low?
2. Would he be a nice piece to attract FA next year or would he be a trade piece to bring in another top player in 2021?
but there was no way they guaranteed him anything. I mean first of all they had no idea who they could get. Supposedly Thibs really wanted to coach the knicks, perhaps he was more worried bout trying to get some assurances that he wont be fired in 2 seasons during a rebuild.
Im all for winning vs tanking. I was on board with Paul, i can live with hayward (but 4/100 is a lot for him), but guys like Russ/Wall dont make sense. You need to make sure you are both making the team better short term and long term. Russ stunts the growth of the young guys. I like Russ but he needs the ball all the time, that will hurt RJ and Obi. Wall you have no idea how healthy he even is.
Maybe guarantee is too strong a word,but I'm sure there were assurances of a competitive roster.Yes, he wanted to coach the Knicks, but he had other offers as well. So,if Leon,wanted Thibs he didn't just promise him he wouldn't fire him. Yes, Westbrook/Wall are both ball dominant guards but that doesn't mean RJ & Obi wouldn't get their shots. On the contrary,both are great ball distributors & top assist guys.In an ideal world,sure I'd love a 27-28 year old Paul & I'd give him the keys to the franchise. But,he's not out there & even if he was, past history shows he wouldn't come to the Knicks.So,like I said above, if you don't change the perception of who the Knicks are, we'll be wishing & hoping for another 10 years! If you can change the perception,you have to do it!
Is not getting traded in a salary dump. Only CHA/ ATL have the cap space to do it and they are not taking Julius Randle unless the Knicks include a pick. Just shows how bad last offseason really was. Hopefully they move him somewhere though.
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
Is not getting traded in a salary dump. Only CHA/ ATL have the cap space to do it and they are not taking Julius Randle unless the Knicks include a pick. Just shows how bad last offseason really was. Hopefully they move him somewhere though.
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
If FVV only wants $16-$18M, definitely worth it to offer him 4/80 if an extra $2-$4M would pry him from Toronto. If Randle is not traded, fine but can’t have that $ on the bench. If they can sign FVV, it’s better than trading assets for a PG, but FVV may not be that guy who attracts UFA to come next summer.
that doesnt mean he is a chucker, but it means he has the ball all the time. Most of his assists are drive and dishes. Not that it isnt a valuable skill im just not sure it helps young guys like RJ and Obi who should have the ball more. I mean russ is a scorer and he is usually in the top 5 in FGA, sure he was/is one of the better players in the league so of course he shoots a lot, BUT is that what we need when we are trying to groom young players. We want them to shoot to.
id be happy to take back a player who fits better. My best example is Randle for Cody Zeller. Not saying that move but something like that could work. Trade him to a team who needs a bit more scoring.
Is not getting traded in a salary dump. Only CHA/ ATL have the cap space to do it and they are not taking Julius Randle unless the Knicks include a pick. Just shows how bad last offseason really was. Hopefully they move him somewhere though.
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
If FVV only wants $16-$18M, definitely worth it to offer him 4/80 if an extra $2-$4M would pry him from Toronto. If Randle is not traded, fine but can’t have that $ on the bench. If they can sign FVV, it’s better than trading assets for a PG, but FVV may not be that guy who attracts UFA to come next summer.
All the writer in Toronto say they love VanVleet for 16 million per but don't want to pay him 22-25 million.
If I am the Knicks I go big on a 3 years deal like 3 yrs for 70 million.
Could do a option on year 4.
Is not getting traded in a salary dump. Only CHA/ ATL have the cap space to do it and they are not taking Julius Randle unless the Knicks include a pick. Just shows how bad last offseason really was. Hopefully they move him somewhere though.
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
If FVV only wants $16-$18M, definitely worth it to offer him 4/80 if an extra $2-$4M would pry him from Toronto. If Randle is not traded, fine but can’t have that $ on the bench. If they can sign FVV, it’s better than trading assets for a PG, but FVV may not be that guy who attracts UFA to come next summer.
All the writer in Toronto say they love VanVleet for 16 million per but don't want to pay him 22-25 million.
If I am the Knicks I go big on a 3 years deal like 3 yrs for 70 million.
Could do a option on year 4.
I mean yeah, FVV for 5/80-90 would be amazing to stay in Toronto(16-18.) but I do feel like if they signed him for 5 years, it’d have to be in $20-$22M range since it’s buying years of his FA. If FVV stays in Toronto, his best bet would be a 3 year deal so he can get more as a 29 year old. If I’m NYK, I offer 3/60 easily and maybe 4/80-84.
My top two goals for this team are to fix this culture (yes, that does mean start winning games too which may be tough) and to maintain our cap flexibility for next offseason. This is not the year to be spending big. I'm sure we'll still be left standing at the alter next year but you miss 100% of the chances you don't take. I cant imagine too many teams being able to fix multiple max money players next offseason. That is a huge selling point to FA. They get to pick their teammates. However, we know where we have fallen short in the past. It was our culture and the supporting cast. So, how do you fix that? The culture thing is tough because of decades of shitty handling of this team. But hopefully this new regime gets a better rep. Also, we need these kids to develop fast particularly Toppin and Barrett. I think that can be accomplished. That is why I said I would target 1 year vets this year like last year.
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
Certainly worse ways they could go. What’s one more year of shit and at least now they have a good HC and some young players we can all get behind. I’d be excited for the season but I’d like to see a PG brought in that can actually facilitate at an above average level.
And he has a very good year here under Thibs. I think he can be a valuable player with the right coaching. He does a lot of important things well and you can cover up his D since he’s not a stay at home center like Kanter. Randle is a PF.
Not that I’d shed a tear if Randle was traded but as mentioned there likely isn’t a market for him. Maybe we build him up this season and deal him at the deadline when his value is higher.
I’ll be excited just to watch RJ, Obi and Mitch and a good HC. Like the giants I do think there’s a light at the end of this long tunnel. Might be a year away though.
Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Dump after the year that is (unless you need his cash for someone special). I don’t see someone special this year. Wasting an asset at this point makes absolutely no sense to me.
Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
of me wants them to sign both FVV and Hayward and kinda just go for it while still developing youth. Both guys are shooters and passers, so they shouldn't hinder development of anyone.
The alternative is to just be shitty next year and hope for another high pick, which may be what we end up doing and might be wiser in the long run.
Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
of me wants them to sign both FVV and Hayward and kinda just go for it while still developing youth. Both guys are shooters and passers, so they shouldn't hinder development of anyone.
The alternative is to just be shitty next year and hope for another high pick, which may be what we end up doing and might be wiser in the long run.
Even if they were to ONLY sign FVV, not Hayward which is fine, it still can help RJ and Toppin. Easily can remain a top 10 pick but help the youth as well. If Randle isn’t moveable yet fine and possibly Toppin can either play some SF, or Randle play some C and have Mitch back up. Give Randle 8-10 mins a night at C, and 10-12 at PF. Have Toppin play some of both positions. Knox also needs this year still to develop and hopefully Kenny Payne saves Knox. This is the last year Knox has before he’s done here imo and Payne was brought in partially to try and avoid that.
Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
Only one year deals please. I believe if done correctly we would have 70-75% of our CAP free for next years FA class. Keep feeding the future guys. We waited already so do it right!
Augustine. I’ll settle for Reggie Jackson or Teague I guess. Neither are great shooters though. Teague prolly a better run the offense guy and Jackson the better scorer.
Weird the FVV market is so quiet. TOR must not be offering what he wants. Most likely using the Knicks as leverage, but maybe for once we are sticking to our number. Tired of being used by players to get more money where they actually want to play.
So we are just about out of options. Guess the tank is back on for another year. I liked the idea of fielding a competitive team, but nothing really worked out. Not blaming the Knicks, id rather this then them going out and adding Russ and some other overpaid aging star with a couple years left.
So we are just about out of options. Guess the tank is back on for another year. I liked the idea of fielding a competitive team, but nothing really worked out. Not blaming the Knicks, id rather this then them going out and adding Russ and some other overpaid aging star with a couple years left.
Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
Georgia football, Kentucky basketball.
2012 Jon would have a field day with this.
2020 Jon is saving his energy.
Really? Not the thread for this, but go on. I’ve been a Kentucky basketball fan since elementary school in the 90s, been a Georgia football fan since my parents got a summer house in Georgia and started to watch Georgia basketball even though they sucked but they’re my 2nd basketball team.
Sounds like they are waiting on Hayward, even have up their offer..
Point Guard will probably end up being a cheap vet..
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
I could be wrong here, but wouldn’t it make sense to trade for a guy like Kemba who can help guys like Barrett and Toppin? I feel like trading for a guy like him may be able to attract a FA next year and makes $10M less than Westbrook. I’m just not totally sure if they sign FVV if he would be able to attract a big time FA.
Indiana remains Gordon Hayward's preferred destination, league sources say, which requires a sign-and-trade with the Celtics to net the former Butler star a deal estimated in the four-year, $100 million range
He’s from Indy, his family is there and has made it known that’s where he wants to go all along. He’s making Ainge’s job pretty easy as long as he doesn’t get greedy.
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My top two goals for this team are to fix this culture (yes, that does mean start winning games too which may be tough) and to maintain our cap flexibility for next offseason. This is not the year to be spending big. I'm sure we'll still be left standing at the alter next year but you miss 100% of the chances you don't take. I cant imagine too many teams being able to fix multiple max money players next offseason. That is a huge selling point to FA. They get to pick their teammates. However, we know where we have fallen short in the past. It was our culture and the supporting cast. So, how do you fix that? The culture thing is tough because of decades of shitty handling of this team. But hopefully this new regime gets a better rep. Also, we need these kids to develop fast particularly Toppin and Barrett. I think that can be accomplished. That is why I said I would target 1 year vets this year like last year.
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
I could be wrong here, but wouldn’t it make sense to trade for a guy like Kemba who can help guys like Barrett and Toppin? I feel like trading for a guy like him may be able to attract a FA next year and makes $10M less than Westbrook. I’m just not totally sure if they sign FVV if he would be able to attract a big time FA.
Kemba is a guy that can attract another player. Absolutely. But of you trade for Kemba then what are you giving up? If it is just Kemba on your roster and nothing else then it really isn't all that attractive.
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In comment 15052834 robbieballs2003 said:
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My top two goals for this team are to fix this culture (yes, that does mean start winning games too which may be tough) and to maintain our cap flexibility for next offseason. This is not the year to be spending big. I'm sure we'll still be left standing at the alter next year but you miss 100% of the chances you don't take. I cant imagine too many teams being able to fix multiple max money players next offseason. That is a huge selling point to FA. They get to pick their teammates. However, we know where we have fallen short in the past. It was our culture and the supporting cast. So, how do you fix that? The culture thing is tough because of decades of shitty handling of this team. But hopefully this new regime gets a better rep. Also, we need these kids to develop fast particularly Toppin and Barrett. I think that can be accomplished. That is why I said I would target 1 year vets this year like last year.
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
I could be wrong here, but wouldn’t it make sense to trade for a guy like Kemba who can help guys like Barrett and Toppin? I feel like trading for a guy like him may be able to attract a FA next year and makes $10M less than Westbrook. I’m just not totally sure if they sign FVV if he would be able to attract a big time FA.
Kemba is a guy that can attract another player. Absolutely. But of you trade for Kemba then what are you giving up? If it is just Kemba on your roster and nothing else then it really isn't all that attractive.
Doesn’t Boston supposedly want to shed salary? A Randle trade could make sense there and they don’t need Knox as they have Tatum and Jaylen Brown as Forwards, maybe DSJ or Frank goes with Randle in a Walker trade? Also could move one of the Mavs picks or something? I don’t know exactly what.
I also am very confused with the Hayward thing as to why it’s a sign/ trade if he declined the $35M figured he’d be a UFA and can go anywhere he wants as a UFA
If we can help a taem shed salary, great. If we cant then i guess overpay guys on one year deals. Hopefully get a couple Marcus Morris type assets and not Bobby Portis.
I like Burks, def need a vet PG and of course id love to move Randle, but outside of this message board you havent heard a damn thing about that, haha.
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In comment 15052838 UGADawgs7 said:
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In comment 15052834 robbieballs2003 said:
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I also am very confused with the Hayward thing as to why it’s a sign/ trade if he declined the $35M figured he’d be a UFA and can go anywhere he wants as a UFA
Indiana has no cap space. Technically they are over the cap.
Thibs is why I don't think we sit & wait for next year. He didn't sign up to coach the roster as currently constructed. And,I would imagine he was promised a roster that could compete for a playoff spot. It's why I'd be amazed if we fill the roster with players like last year. Myself, I have mixed emotions about pursuing a Westbrook,Hayward or even a Wall. But,continuing the wishing & hoping until next FA season just pushes the problem under the rug for another season. They need a quality vet to help them get into the playoffs as to change the entire league perception of the Knicks. Without changing that,it's same old,same old ,year after year!
Im all for winning vs tanking. I was on board with Paul, i can live with hayward (but 4/100 is a lot for him), but guys like Russ/Wall dont make sense. You need to make sure you are both making the team better short term and long term. Russ stunts the growth of the young guys. I like Russ but he needs the ball all the time, that will hurt RJ and Obi. Wall you have no idea how healthy he even is.
Im all for winning vs tanking. I was on board with Paul, i can live with hayward (but 4/100 is a lot for him), but guys like Russ/Wall dont make sense. You need to make sure you are both making the team better short term and long term. Russ stunts the growth of the young guys. I like Russ but he needs the ball all the time, that will hurt RJ and Obi. Wall you have no idea how healthy he even is.
I’m not saying that I want Russ, his contract and age scares me. But I don’t get this idea that people keep saying about stunting other players growth and that he needs the ball all the time. Everywhere he’s been, getting other players involved has not been an issue whatsoever. People act like he’s just a chucker. You don’t average close to a triple double because you’re an unwilling passer. Is he going to control the ball most of the time? Welll yeah, he’s the point guard. This isn’t Melo here. Westbrook is not a ball stopper. I get not thinking the contract this late in his career is a good fit for where this team is currently at. What I don’t get is the idea that RJ and Toppin will somehow suffer and not develop or be involved with the offense
Also sounds like the are looking for a similar deal to last year for Pope like a 1 yr 16 million with a team option.
Also sounds like the are looking for a similar deal to last year for Pope like a 1 yr 16 million with a team option.
2 questions I have about this besides why.
1. In the NBA can we front load a contract this year to make next year's cap number very low?
2. Would he be a nice piece to attract FA next year or would he be a trade piece to bring in another top player in 2021?
Im all for winning vs tanking. I was on board with Paul, i can live with hayward (but 4/100 is a lot for him), but guys like Russ/Wall dont make sense. You need to make sure you are both making the team better short term and long term. Russ stunts the growth of the young guys. I like Russ but he needs the ball all the time, that will hurt RJ and Obi. Wall you have no idea how healthy he even is.
Maybe guarantee is too strong a word,but I'm sure there were assurances of a competitive roster.Yes, he wanted to coach the Knicks, but he had other offers as well. So,if Leon,wanted Thibs he didn't just promise him he wouldn't fire him. Yes, Westbrook/Wall are both ball dominant guards but that doesn't mean RJ & Obi wouldn't get their shots. On the contrary,both are great ball distributors & top assist guys.In an ideal world,sure I'd love a 27-28 year old Paul & I'd give him the keys to the franchise. But,he's not out there & even if he was, past history shows he wouldn't come to the Knicks.So,like I said above, if you don't change the perception of who the Knicks are, we'll be wishing & hoping for another 10 years! If you can change the perception,you have to do it!
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
If FVV only wants $16-$18M, definitely worth it to offer him 4/80 if an extra $2-$4M would pry him from Toronto. If Randle is not traded, fine but can’t have that $ on the bench. If they can sign FVV, it’s better than trading assets for a PG, but FVV may not be that guy who attracts UFA to come next summer.
I say all this as a Russ fan.
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Is not getting traded in a salary dump. Only CHA/ ATL have the cap space to do it and they are not taking Julius Randle unless the Knicks include a pick. Just shows how bad last offseason really was. Hopefully they move him somewhere though.
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
If FVV only wants $16-$18M, definitely worth it to offer him 4/80 if an extra $2-$4M would pry him from Toronto. If Randle is not traded, fine but can’t have that $ on the bench. If they can sign FVV, it’s better than trading assets for a PG, but FVV may not be that guy who attracts UFA to come next summer.
All the writer in Toronto say they love VanVleet for 16 million per but don't want to pay him 22-25 million.
If I am the Knicks I go big on a 3 years deal like 3 yrs for 70 million.
Could do a option on year 4.
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In comment 15052885 TyreeHelmet said:
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Is not getting traded in a salary dump. Only CHA/ ATL have the cap space to do it and they are not taking Julius Randle unless the Knicks include a pick. Just shows how bad last offseason really was. Hopefully they move him somewhere though.
Bobby Marks expects VanVleet to get 16-18 mill a year. I really hope the Knicks offer a 4 year deal between 80-100. Make Toronto match and or him choose to take less to stay. To me it’s a no brainer and not sure why they aren’t all over him.
Great offseason for the Lakers so far... Man did things always work out for them. But it is laughable that Davis is “waiting till after thanksgiving to commit”. NBA stars sure love playing up the drama.
If FVV only wants $16-$18M, definitely worth it to offer him 4/80 if an extra $2-$4M would pry him from Toronto. If Randle is not traded, fine but can’t have that $ on the bench. If they can sign FVV, it’s better than trading assets for a PG, but FVV may not be that guy who attracts UFA to come next summer.
All the writer in Toronto say they love VanVleet for 16 million per but don't want to pay him 22-25 million.
If I am the Knicks I go big on a 3 years deal like 3 yrs for 70 million.
Could do a option on year 4.
I mean yeah, FVV for 5/80-90 would be amazing to stay in Toronto(16-18.) but I do feel like if they signed him for 5 years, it’d have to be in $20-$22M range since it’s buying years of his FA. If FVV stays in Toronto, his best bet would be a 3 year deal so he can get more as a 29 year old. If I’m NYK, I offer 3/60 easily and maybe 4/80-84.
As long as it's not the Knicks' money, okey dokey.
But talk about doubling down on a mistake.
This is what MM Sr. put up in 56 minutes of court time in Games 6 and 7 vs the Nuggets as the Clips' season crumbled to dust:
3-14 from the field (1-4 2 pt; 2-10 3 pt)
1 assist
Yes, that was MM's total production in almost an hour of court time in the biggest two games of the season.
Four more years, four more years . . .
Now, if this all falls apart next offseason then we can do what we wanted to do this year and use our cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire assets. Teams will be way more willing next year with the FA available to give up better picks and assets to free up enough space to land the big fish. All we have to do is wait one more year to find out which path we will take.
Certainly worse ways they could go. What’s one more year of shit and at least now they have a good HC and some young players we can all get behind. I’d be excited for the season but I’d like to see a PG brought in that can actually facilitate at an above average level.
Not that I’d shed a tear if Randle was traded but as mentioned there likely isn’t a market for him. Maybe we build him up this season and deal him at the deadline when his value is higher.
I’ll be excited just to watch RJ, Obi and Mitch and a good HC. Like the giants I do think there’s a light at the end of this long tunnel. Might be a year away though.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
The alternative is to just be shitty next year and hope for another high pick, which may be what we end up doing and might be wiser in the long run.
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Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
Also he does note that the Knicks have interest in FVV, just to be at their number, which seems to be a theme.
Link - ( New Window )
The alternative is to just be shitty next year and hope for another high pick, which may be what we end up doing and might be wiser in the long run.
Even if they were to ONLY sign FVV, not Hayward which is fine, it still can help RJ and Toppin. Easily can remain a top 10 pick but help the youth as well. If Randle isn’t moveable yet fine and possibly Toppin can either play some SF, or Randle play some C and have Mitch back up. Give Randle 8-10 mins a night at C, and 10-12 at PF. Have Toppin play some of both positions. Knox also needs this year still to develop and hopefully Kenny Payne saves Knox. This is the last year Knox has before he’s done here imo and Payne was brought in partially to try and avoid that.
@TheAthleticNBA
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In comment 15052952 Italianju said:
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Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
Georgia football, Kentucky basketball.
On a happier note, Portis signed with the Bucks so he cant come back
Weird the FVV market is so quiet. TOR must not be offering what he wants. Most likely using the Knicks as leverage, but maybe for once we are sticking to our number. Tired of being used by players to get more money where they actually want to play.
That one hurts..
So it's hayward or bust at this point.
Please no Westbrook
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4/85 for FVV Toronto
That one hurts..
So it's hayward or bust at this point.
Please no Westbrook
I don't look at this as a bust.
Jeff Teague is still an option, so are trades.
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In comment 15052957 UGADawgs7 said:
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In comment 15052952 Italianju said:
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Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
Georgia football, Kentucky basketball.
2012 Jon would have a field day with this.
2020 Jon is saving his energy.
What are Chris Duhon and Jeremy Lin up to?????
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In comment 15052971 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15052957 UGADawgs7 said:
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In comment 15052952 Italianju said:
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Not to be a black hole I’d like him more. And I don’t want to see toppin playing 18 minutes so randle can play 37. Those are my concerns with keeping him.
Spot on. I’m a Kentucky fan and I love Randle. My issue with Toppin at 8 is his age, and his being almost 23 that he should not be sitting on the bench. If Randle doesn’t have trade value, NYK shouldn’t be getting rid of him just bc he’s a salary dump. He’s a good offensive player but lacks defense just like Toppin. So it’s hard to see what they do. Hard to have Toppin on the bench to increase Randle trade value.
Wait. I’m confused. Your handle is UGADawgs7. But you’re a Kentucky fan? Wtf?
Georgia football, Kentucky basketball.
2012 Jon would have a field day with this.
2020 Jon is saving his energy.
Really? Not the thread for this, but go on. I’ve been a Kentucky basketball fan since elementary school in the 90s, been a Georgia football fan since my parents got a summer house in Georgia and started to watch Georgia basketball even though they sucked but they’re my 2nd basketball team.