I would say 3 things
Columbo had line improving.
A 3 and 7 team needs to evaluate the talent on the bench. They have to know what Peart can do and whether they need to bring Zeitler back next year.
A position coach or coordinator has to be willing to take direction from the head coach
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Huh, what are you talking about? Does he not have a DC that is bringing in his own system? Did he not bring in an OC that has his own system? Has he not kept our ST coach in place even though that is Judge's specialty? Did he not say numerous times that he will let his coordinators call plays and not override them? So, because he didn't like what he saw from the OL group that means he doesn't delegate?
Was the micromanaging warranted?
Most of us hate when a boss micromanages our area of expertise.
Tis a fine line between asserting one's belief and insubordination. I don't want a gutless yes man, but I also don't want someone unwilling to see a different viewpoint.
Rotation sounds great, but ya gotta figure it's not the norm for a reason. As pointed out, rotation was down the last 2 weeks.
The article paints a picture of a difference in personalities, with Columbo sticking up for his beliefs, not one of Judge taking over coaching duties (I've got a feeling that notion is taking on a life of its own, far out of proportion with reality-because of one known incident with Gates, Judge will now get full credit for G's stellar advancement)
Unfortunately for Columbo, Judge is the head coach and not him. You can’t have an assistant out there giving a different message than a head coach. Even if players like the assistant, it eventually becomes toxic for the team.
It was not well-handled from the word go. Hopefully it all works out.
It was not well-handled from the word go. Hopefully it all works out.
Where were you on the Stapleton thread? How interesting.
If anyone isn't being objective its you. You are all over every Judge thread except the one that sounds the most reasonable/likely to be true. That isn't coincidence.
"When Colombo reacted the way he did Tuesday night after Judge told him of the plan to bring Dave DeGuglielmo onto the staff, Judge decided that was the breaking point and made the change. (5/5)"
You keep saying Judge didn't tell Colombo and the above (if true) completely debunks that.
It was not well-handled from the word go. Hopefully it all works out.
What exactly was not well handled? Whether its specific technique issues for the center, or the question of rotation among the OL, if Judge wants that implemented its Colombo's job to figure out the best way to accomplish those things.
It simply was never gonna be Colombo's call, unless JJ petmitted it to be Colombo's call. If Colombo really couldn't stand for that, he should have resigned... Then maybe Judge looks like the A-hole.
But we've already got an insider's (BC Eagles) view that Colombo is a DICK, a bully, whatever, and numerous confirmations that Colombo cursed JJ out loudly and confrontationally.
No choice but to can Colombo's ass after that.
Will the OL regress or continue to improve wothout Colombo?
TBD...
The happens at companies all across the country. You can't have management being "one of the boys". At they end of the day, the coaches are with the coaches. I can understand Judge having a zero tolerance policy towards that type of behavior and it sounds to me, THAT was at the route of the problems and not the use of profanity.
In Colombo's mind, he's still an Offensive Lineman. He may one day become a good coach if he gets his head straight.
Nice to finally be in a new era!
Quote: defend Judge.
It was not well-handled from the word go. Hopefully it all works out./////////
Where were you on the Stapleton thread? How interesting.
If anyone isn't being objective its you. You are all over every Judge thread except the one that sounds the most reasonable/likely to be true. That isn't coincidence.
"When Colombo reacted the way he did Tuesday night after Judge told him of the plan to bring Dave DeGuglielmo onto the staff, Judge decided that was the breaking point and made the change. (5/5)"
You keep saying Judge didn't tell Colombo and the above (if true) completely debunks that.
I don't know what the takeaway should be re. 'one of the guys' criticism. If they liked Colombo, should him being too close to them (however interpreted) be part of the reasons to fire him? Dunno
Colombo was well-liked by players who see him as one of their own and there is uneasiness exacerbated by the timing of the long bye week and no return to practice until Monday about changes that could be ahead just as things started to click on the line, league sources said.
"League sources" as opposed to team sources does not give me confidence in the accuracy of the assessment. Also re your point, Judge seems very much to be a "players' coach", even if he's tough and demanding.
I can't agree with your assessment that the firing was based on Colombo being a "players' coach", or "one of the boys." Not at all really, you're way overreaching IMO.
he was getting canned anyways. Judge made a mistake hiring him and regretted it instantly.
Probably shows that Mara forced Garrett on Judge as well. But if Judge finishes strong he is probably going to take full control of the org. I wouldn't be surprised if Judge fires some of Mara's family members next. They have no football expertise.
And assuming this article is accurate I can appreciate Colombo’s frustration because if you are hired to do a job all you really want is to be allowed to do that job to the best you of your ability, and left alone to do just that. The problem though is in how he handled it when it didn’t go that way. Once Judge informed him of his desire to rotate the OL and he couldn’t initially convince Judge for the merits of not doing so he either had to except the challenge and embrace it, or tender his resignation. Fighting with Judge and attempting to show him up by undermining the plan is not how to respond and left Judge with little choice but to fire him.
As to who’s strategy was right who knows? Maybe Columbo’s would be short term, but maybe Judge is looking long term and including other factors into the decision.
The biggest issue, and really this is a failure on Judge’s part, is that all of this should have been discussed and ironed out before Colombo was hired. Of course maybe it was and Colombo just paid him lip service and it all falls back on him. We probably never know.
And assuming this article is accurate I can appreciate Colombo’s frustration because if you are hired to do a job all you really want is to be allowed to do that job to the best you of your ability, and left alone to do just that. The problem though is in how he handled it when it didn’t go that way. Once Judge informed him of his desire to rotate the OL and he couldn’t initially convince Judge for the merits of not doing so he either had to except the challenge and embrace it, or tender his resignation. Fighting with Judge and attempting to show him up by undermining the plan is not how to respond and left Judge with little choice but to fire him.
As to who’s strategy was right who knows? Maybe Columbo’s would be short term, but maybe Judge is looking long term and including other factors into the decision.
The biggest issue, and really this is a failure on Judge’s part, is that all of this should have been discussed and ironed out before Colombo was hired. Of course maybe it was and Colombo just paid him lip service and it all falls back on him. We probably never know.
Sh&t happens in business. You make an informed decision and move on.
The result — the Giants’ best offensive line performance of the season in a 27-17 victory — was interpreted two very different ways: As proof that sticking with starters through struggles will reap rewards, and as defiance of instruction.
So Judge was pushing for more combinations and Colombo wanted to stick with a consistent five. That was a question I raised earlier in the week - who wanted to rotate more players? This answers that.
But Colombo’s approach worked very well against Philly. Yet, he may have defied Judge’s direct orders.
That’s a real impasse. Colombo basically declared mutiny. He was going to do it his way...regardless.
While his philosophy may be right, Colombo really forced Judge’s hand here. And it’s clear Colombo had little to no respect for Judge. That’s
just poison for an organization...
Secondly, as a position coach, you do what is told by the HC. If he says rotate, you rotate the players as specified.
Thirdly, call your boss a C**t and you should be canned.
Everything else is nothing but fluff and BS outside of those three aspects. IMO Colombo was lucky he lasted this long. There is not a team in the NFL that allows a position coach to go off of the script decided by the HC and Coordinators above him.
It's not like an everyday job where you can just hide it, move on, and likely not have anyone ever find out. With Colombo, it's right out there in the public domain. It's going to be a hard sell to get around this.
And assuming this article is accurate I can appreciate Colombo’s frustration because if you are hired to do a job all you really want is to be allowed to do that job to the best you of your ability, and left alone to do just that. The problem though is in how he handled it when it didn’t go that way. Once Judge informed him of his desire to rotate the OL and he couldn’t initially convince Judge for the merits of not doing so he either had to except the challenge and embrace it, or tender his resignation. Fighting with Judge and attempting to show him up by undermining the plan is not how to respond and left Judge with little choice but to fire him.
As to who’s strategy was right who knows? Maybe Columbo’s would be short term, but maybe Judge is looking long term and including other factors into the decision.
The biggest issue, and really this is a failure on Judge’s part, is that all of this should have been discussed and ironed out before Colombo was hired. Of course maybe it was and Colombo just paid him lip service and it all falls back on him. We probably never know.
I mostly agree, but they shouldn’t really need to discuss the strategy of rotating players. Judge is the boss and if he wants a rotation that is what you do. Coach the OL and execute the HC’s strategy - end of story.
Was the micromanaging warranted?
Most of us hate when a boss micromanages our area of expertise.
Tis a fine line between asserting one's belief and insubordination. I don't want a gutless yes man, but I also don't want someone unwilling to see a different viewpoint.
Rotation sounds great, but ya gotta figure it's not the norm for a reason. As pointed out, rotation was down the last 2 weeks.
The article paints a picture of a difference in personalities, with Columbo sticking up for his beliefs, not one of Judge taking over coaching duties (I've got a feeling that notion is taking on a life of its own, far out of proportion with reality-because of one known incident with Gates, Judge will now get full credit for G's stellar advancement)
It was not well-handled from the word go. Hopefully it all works out.
It was not well-handled from the word go. Hopefully it all works out.
I like Judge so far but I don’t know how this doesn’t raise a flag. I’m not buying Judge being able to singlehandedly turn around the OL in a couple of weeks with a little input in practice. So we’re reshuffling the coaching staff mid season on a unit that is improving? If Columbo was never really his guy then why was he hired to start?
I like Judge so far but I don’t know how this doesn’t raise a flag. I’m not buying Judge being able to singlehandedly turn around the OL in a couple of weeks with a little input in practice. So we’re reshuffling the coaching staff mid season on a unit that is improving? If Columbo was never really his guy then why was he hired to start?
He was hired because Garrett beat the drum for it, and Judge deferred to him. And the logic was sound enough. But the line just wasn't doing very well until a couple weeks ago, about the time that Judge started getting more hands-on in his coaching. I'm a little skeptical too - it seems a bit too neat and clean as an explanation. But all we can do is evaluate the on-field product, then and now. Thomas, in particular, seems to have improved. And against two teams (Washington and Philly) who are no slouches in the DL department.
Secondly, as a position coach, you do what is told by the HC. If he says rotate, you rotate the players as specified.
Thirdly, call your boss a C**t and you should be canned.
Everything else is nothing but fluff and BS outside of those three aspects. IMO Colombo was lucky he lasted this long. There is not a team in the NFL that allows a position coach to go off of the script decided by the HC and Coordinators above him.
Yeah, I really am blown away by how many folks are hyper-analyzing this.
Joe Judge is the head coach. If he says "jump", you jump.
I recognize Columbo's responsible for his OLine, but Judge is responsible for the entire team.
It's not an easy position to be in, but it's not like Columbo's a newbie. It's almost like he thought he could do whatever he wanted because Garrett - the 10 year Cowboys HC/now OC, was his boy.