NFT: Knicks Trade

who on the current roster will play well enough to show they can be part of a core going forward...

for me: Toppin, RJ, Mitch, Rivers, Quickley, Noel will all show something to keep beyond this year and keep adding to them..

core piece, along with Rivers.

of Vegas - 22.5 wins projected.
Knicks the worst? - ( New Window )

In comment 15056228 Del Shofner said:

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of Vegas - 22.5 wins projected. Knicks the worst? - ( New Window )

The '21 draft is stacked...

(Other then taking minutes from young guys) contract is not bad. We have room for it this year and it only cost $4m to get rid of him next year. Why take on a big #? Some know more than me if he is worth that kind of #.

On to Atlanta. Wayne E to Detroit I believe.

In comment 15056246 Carl in CT said:

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On to Atlanta. Wayne E to Detroit I believe.

Kings don't match offer sheet for who?

They have a pretty decent team now, at least by Eastern Conference standards.

In comment 15056215 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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in a Knicks uni. That's all I ask for in 2021 NBA wise.

I can't even think about this after Zion and Morant.
2021 looks to be a really deep draft top 3 would be perfect

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Sources: Boston and Charlotte have worked on a sign-and-trade for Gordon Hayward that would land Celtics a trade exception, but Hornets have first been trying to find a third team for Nic Batum's $27M contract to see if there's a way to avoid waiving-and-stretching his money.

@hornets have all of their future 1sts, AND a 2nd rounder in 2021 that previously belonged to @knicks. They also have their 2022 2nd rounder. MJ, we'll take a lottery-protected #1 and our 2nd rounder back. Thanks!

to take back Batum without stretching him

problem with getting the Knicks involved is they can't absorb the whole contact. They'd need to send out Randle most likely.

Not sure if that's actually a "problem" but it does complicate things.

I wonder if the Celtics would be interested in Randle.

JB
@JeffreyBellone
Recent signings aren’t official, so these aren’t exact figures, but if Knicks wait to sign Payton, and they traded Jacob Evans + Iggy, they could take back Batum’s $27.1 million salary with ~$600,000 in space to spare.

Then use Room MLE to sign Payton

if they take back Randle are they still ok? I guess we could always take Monk back like was mentioned by someone (Jon?) yesterday. I mean he stinks but you can just let him walk after the year.

in a batum trade this offseason would be looking pretty good.

Also it would be hard with his salary, but i wouldnt be floored if Batum had some trade deadline value if we gave him some mintues.

I'd do Jacob Evans and DSJ for Batum, Vernon Carey Jr. and an unprotected first...oh and a 2023 second round pick.

.

Marc Berman
@NYPost_Berman
Per Woj, Mike Miller joining OKC's assistant staff under Mark Daigneault. More money saved by James Dolan as Miller was under contract. Looking back, with this shaping up as a gap season, Miller could've been back as HC. Let's see how Thibodeau handles new rebuilding roster

In comment 15056518 Strahan91 said:

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to take back Batum without stretching him

Except that OKC is using that exception to complete the trade for Horford.

In comment 15056525 Jon in NYC said:

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problem with getting the Knicks involved is they can't absorb the whole contact. They'd need to send out Randle most likely. Not sure if that's actually a "problem" but it does complicate things. I wonder if the Celtics would be interested in Randle.

The reports I have seen indicate that the Hornets need about $15-18M in space to fit in Hayward's deal. I don't think the numbers work for Randle, but I don't know the exact numbers.

Option B might be to offer Smith, Frank and some other filler, like Evans in exchange for picks and Batum's contract.

Remember that if the Knicks were to complete the deal, they could work out a buyout with Batum. Batum almost certainly wants to go elsewhere to play or be a bench piece for a contender so he can get a better deal in FA next year. It might not be a big savings, but he could give up a couple million to get away.

In comment 15056562 rich in DC said:

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In comment 15056518 Strahan91 said: Quote: to take back Batum without stretching him Except that OKC is using that exception to complete the trade for Horford.

It's more complicated than that. They could do this and ask Philly to wait on executing the Horford deal until they can aggregate Danny Green's with another player's.

for Hayward. First year of his deal is $28M, so Randle straight up would just get them there if these reported numbers are accurate.

Difference between Batum's contract and Randle's is ~$8.2M so Charlotte would need to send out a little bit of salary in addition to Batum to clear room for Hayward.

.

In comment 15055793 nygiants16 said:

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If they improve great but at this point i dont expect anything.. The 3 most important pieces are Rj, Toppin and Mitch..Quickley is important but we dont know what kind of minutes he is going to get yet.. Rj i expect 18 6 and 3, He improves his free throw shooting he should get to 18 easily.. Toppin can be 18 and 7 this year, he should be the starter even with randle on this team.. Mitch 10 and 10 with 3 blocks and i want him at 30 minutes a night..

Totally agree. Knox and Frank will always be poster boys for wasted 1st round selections. I like Toppin and would not be surprised if he starts over Randle despite initial defensive shortcomings. RJ, who showed great potential, will constantly improve. Hopefully Thibodeau can school Mitchell regarding fouls and he stays on the court for longer than 20 minutes a game.

In comment 15056576 Strahan91 said:

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In comment 15056562 rich in DC said: Quote: In comment 15056518 Strahan91 said: Quote: to take back Batum without stretching him Except that OKC is using that exception to complete the trade for Horford. It's more complicated than that. They could do this and ask Philly to wait on executing the Horford deal until they can aggregate Danny Green's with another player's.

Can’t aggregate trade exceptions.

Let’s hope we are the player.

board is really missing a knicks Asshat.

In comment 15056646 rich in DC said:

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Can’t aggregate trade exceptions.

Danny Green the player, not a trade exception from a Danny Green trade.

In comment 15056659 Carl in CT said:

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Let’s hope we are the player.

OKC as mentioned (with the Danny Green caveat) is the only team that can do it without sending any salary back. The Knicks would need to send a small salary back. The other option I suppose is if a third team is willing to send out equal salary to Batum for a player(s) Boston wants in exchange for assets from Charlotte and/or Boston.

Knicks have hired 10-year veteran Aaron Brooks, who is expected to assist the team at the NBA level and G-League level, per @IanBegley

It’s crazy to me that people say Frank and Knox are done. Frank is 22 and Knox is 21. Sure there trade values are low right now, but no every player comes into the league and becomes a superstar. Knox showed promise in his rookie year and took a step back last year. Let’s give the kid some more time before we say he is a complete waste. Frank came in as a 19 year old foreign player. We were told up front that it would take 3-4 years before he was ready to be a contributor. Let’s see what Frank had this year, knox would be a college senior this year and we already know he is young for his grade level. He just turned 21 in August. You guys are insanely impatient with young players.

In comment 15056737 GMEN46 said:

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It’s crazy to me that people say Frank and Knox are done. Frank is 22 and Knox is 21. Sure there trade values are low right now, but no every player comes into the league and becomes a superstar. Knox showed promise in his rookie year and took a step back last year. Let’s give the kid some more time before we say he is a complete waste. Frank came in as a 19 year old foreign player. We were told up front that it would take 3-4 years before he was ready to be a contributor. Let’s see what Frank had this year, knox would be a college senior this year and we already know he is young for his grade level. He just turned 21 in August. You guys are insanely impatient with young players.

I'd agree with this. While not going as best case scenario.. you have two very young guys, that are not killers.

I saw some good signs from Frank last year, as possibly being a great role player on winning team. Defends, moves the ball, but needs to shoot better. If he fixes that piece he is the 3 and D guy we need on the wing. Can guard multiple positions and fits the modern NBA, at least as a trade chip.

Knox is more troubling, but his upside as a shooter cannot be ignored. His defense is terrible, but Thibs should be given a shot to challenge him.

Giving up on both of these guys, in a season where winning is a remote possibility. Is not the way to go. I agree GMEN. I think folks are tired and want to see a good product, but we have couple years yet.

Cade Cunningham will be on at 4 on ESPN

Can you point to games where he showed you something?

Even Frank has done that much.

There's nothing to be gained from getting rid of them, but if the only argument is "they're young", that's not really good enough to hang hopes on.

I can see Frank having a role in the NBA as a 3 and D guy if he has a breakthrough with working on his shot. With Knox, I don't know what he does well enough.

on a "couple of years". Frank and Knox are ex-Knicks in 2022 if they don't take a step forward this season.

We're disappointed that right now their career trajectories look to be "serviceable backups with one or two good skills" (Knox shooting; Frank defense).

It wouldn't be shocking if they improved their games, but there's not a ton of game tape for us to expect that at this point. I think it's ok to be disappointed.

trying to be a contrarian, but Knox shot 36% from the field, 37% in 2019 and 33% from 3 this season. Does he have solid form and shooting upside? Sure I guess, but he's has not shown himself to be a good shooter.

In comment 15056779 DanMetroMan said:

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trying to be a contrarian, but Knox shot 36% from the field, 37% in 2019 and 33% from 3 this season. Does he have solid form and shooting upside? Sure I guess, but he's has not shown himself to be a good shooter.

That's fair. Maybe I should have said scoring.

about to play on ESPN2

In comment 15056796 DanMetroMan said:

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about to play on ESPN2

ESPN*

In comment 15056803 adamg said:

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In comment 15056796 DanMetroMan said: Quote: about to play on ESPN2 ESPN*

Thanks

In comment 15056805 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 15056803 adamg said: Quote: In comment 15056796 DanMetroMan said: Quote: about to play on ESPN2 ESPN* Thanks

5 minutes into the game and OK State was 0-8 from 3pt land. I love college basketball but it can be tough to watch sometimes at this point. I’m trying to get a look at Cunningham and all I got was a bad 3 pt shooting contest

In comment 15056768 DanMetroMan said:

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on a "couple of years". Frank and Knox are ex-Knicks in 2022 if they don't take a step forward this season.

Dan, I'm with you on that. The couple years.. was not addressing their development, but the Knicks being winners.
This year is make or break for both guys.

My comments boil down to, your not getting anything for them in a trade now, so you need to prioritize getting them some minutes to prove they are worth something, value as a player in this system or as a trade chip.

Playing journeymen in hopes of getting a five more wins, over getting these guys 18 minutes a game, doesn't help the franchise over the mid to long term.

not even a Frank guy but they have not put him in a position to succeed. To me, the upside to Frank is improving the 3 ball and being a guy you can stick on 1-3's and play him as a 2 guard who provides D and 3 balls + decent ball movement. He's just not a PG, he doesn't have the skillset. Knox is more complex, he's had opportunities but had stretches where he looks borderline unplayable. I'm not in his head but he seems like he needs a lot of positive reinforcement but at times even his effort seemed sub-optimal. It didn't look like he even put in much work in the gym when he arrived in camp, but some guy just have that "look"


PS Cade is impressive

Very impressive

As far as my hopes for the Knicks young guys, he ranks below RJ, Obi, Mitch, Quickley, Frank and DSJ. He just doesn't excel at any one thing that could at least present a floor where he's an NBA rotation player.

He has solid shooting form but the results haven't been there in either of his two seasons on the Knicks nor at Kentucky. He's not a good finisher, lacks quick twitch athleticism, and struggles to create off the dribble.

Given his height, wingspan and fluidity, he has the potential to develop into a solid defender. You can't teach those things so the bull case is that eventually he can that to his advantage by becoming a crafty finisher (using his length and quickness against most 4's to compensate for the lack of explosion and strength) and if he can become a better shooter - a guy who moves well without the ball and stretches the floor.

The problem is, he has a ways to go on all fronts and didn't show any improvement from year 1 to year 2. I agree with Dan that when you watch him play, he doesn't appear to be a guy that is mentally strong. His body language is off, he plays timid most of the time and is seemingly easily discouraged.

I agree with the thought that we knew he was a 3+ year project when he was drafted, but I also think that through ~180 games we have a pretty good idea of what we are getting.

At this point with him, I think a realistic hope is that he gets to be Kris Dunn with a better 3 pt shot. He really isn't all that far off at this point, the defense is inconsistent but he has shown flashes of brilliance. The shooting has slowly improved, his splits have gone from 36.4/31.8/72.1 as a rookie to 39.3/32.1/86.4 this past season. The free throw percentage is a strong indicator that there is a solid shooter in there some where, and if he could just get to 40/35/90 I think you have to be very happy with that.

As for Knox, I think a coaching change will do him wonders. Through 2 years it really looks like his biggest problem is self confidence and effort. Often times he looks like he just doesn't give a shit out there, hopefully Thibs and Payne can get that out of him and light a fire under his ass.

anything you get from them at this point would be a surprise..

There is some video of DSJ playong pickup with cp3 and few other guys, his shot looks better, no hitch, but obviously we will see what happens..

Tuesday starts camp, 10 days after that preseason