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Shawne Merriman: Winner of NFC East should not ...

Beezer : 11/23/2020 7:39 am
Listening to sports radio heading to the gym this morning, the topic was the East, and is it fair a team with such a bad record makes the playoffs AND would host in Week 1. Merriman said it’s completely unfair, especially when you look at the West and several teams looking good.

I know we may be biased given our current standing and what some of us believe looks like an uptick in play/performance. But even said that, regardless of the year or a division being down, I think that’s the beauty of the league: that even if a team under performs or has a record that is 500 or even a bit lower, they can still make the playoffs because of how their division looks.

I don’t think it’s a slam dunk, either, to say that a team from the East would be a walkover in a playoff home game, all things considered.

What’s BBI think? With Merriman and it’s time to revamp the playoff configuration? Or leave it as is?
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How is it unfair?  
Jay on the Island : 11/23/2020 9:42 am : link
Completely ignoring the fact that this guy took steroids to succeed in the NFL and was nothing without them, how is it unfair?

There is no home field advantage for the Giants if they win the division because there aren't any fans in the stadium.
He should go back to getting herpes from Tila Tequila  
sb from NYT Forum : 11/23/2020 10:15 am : link
.
RE: Save for exceptions, the AFC East  
BamaBlue : 11/23/2020 10:18 am : link
In comment 15054660 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
has been a disaster beyond the Pats..


Good point. The Patriots never had to worry about winning their division after 2002. The AFCE was/is so weak for so long. Even this season, the Patriots are still in contention because the Dolphins and Bills are gaff prone.
I swear  
djm : 11/23/2020 10:21 am : link
I think people get the vapors over a bad division even more so when it's the NFC east. If this was the NFC west you wouldn't hear as many talkies and idiots going nuts like they are now.

there's NOTHING anyone can do about this. Every now n then, a division struggles and the winner of that division loses 7-8-9 games. You can't change shit on the fly so people need to fucking deal with it. Once in a blue moon an average or below average team wins a division. you can't go changing the entire playoff dynamic because of a freak season like this.

These talking meatballs have nothing else to discuss so why not stir shit up and generate attn. It's all they have at this point.
funny  
djm : 11/23/2020 10:23 am : link
I don't remember any national outcry when the Giants missed out in 2010 with 10 wins while the Seahawks made it with 7.

Not the first time it's happened, and won't be the last, it's really  
Mad Mike : 11/23/2020 10:24 am : link
not that big a deal. (Though, theoretically, if the division splits our remaining games and wins very few outside the division, it would be a historically bad record for a winner). But especially in a year with expanded playoffs, this is a pretty bad take. At the moment, no team with a winning record would be left out of the NFC playoffs. Obviously that may change, but it's not like there's some powerhouse team on the outside looking in. Sure, it'd be frustrating in a 9 or 10 win Giants team missed the cut while a 6 win team won another division, but them's the breaks. Every division swings from strong to weak over time.
RE: RE: What is the point of having divisions...  
BrettNYG10 : 11/23/2020 10:26 am : link
In comment 15054592 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15054590 EricJ said:


Quote:


if you are not going to award a playoff spot to the winner?



Exactly. If there are divisions, the winner gets a reward. If you disagree with that, then you have to be a proponent of the league going to a Conference format where there are no divisions, no games twice against opponents and a strict ranking from 1 to the number of teams who qualify.


Good point - I sort of agree it's bullshit a 6-10 team might make the playoffs, but the alternatives are worse.

I do think they should just seed playoff teams by record, though. I don't think home games should be a given.
RE: RE: Save for exceptions, the AFC East  
BrettNYG10 : 11/23/2020 10:28 am : link
In comment 15054706 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15054660 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


has been a disaster beyond the Pats..



Good point. The Patriots never had to worry about winning their division after 2002. The AFCE was/is so weak for so long. Even this season, the Patriots are still in contention because the Dolphins and Bills are gaff prone.


This isn't true - the teams in that division were roughly average the past 20 years outside of games played against the Patriots.
If they want to revisit the rule after this season  
Metnut : 11/23/2020 10:30 am : link
go ahead. There's good arguments to change the rule.

Doesn't change the fact that the 2020 winner of the NFC east gets the #4 seed and a home game.
This dilemma happens in every sport  
stoneman : 11/23/2020 10:38 am : link
baseball is worse with a 1 game playoff as consolation for being in a better division. You still have to run the gauntlet against playoff teams, in every sport. The baseball one game playoff is the only exception that you could argue is a total ripoff.
I agree that you...  
Chris in Philly : 11/23/2020 10:41 am : link
can't change any rules in the middle of the season, but if we were not in a position to benefit I suspect some of the opinions here would be different.
RE: RE: Save for exceptions, the AFC East  
Big Blue '56 : 11/23/2020 10:42 am : link
In comment 15054706 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15054660 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


has been a disaster beyond the Pats..



Good point. The Patriots never had to worry about winning their division after 2002. The AFCE was/is so weak for so long. Even this season, the Patriots are still in contention because the Dolphins and Bills are gaff prone.


Never had to worry. This is the first year The AFC East has been competitive to the point where someone like Buffalo is probably better..The 11-5 Dolphins (during the 2008 Brady injury year, yet they still finished 11-5 but lost out for playoffs by losing to the 11-5 Dolphins who won division tiebreaker) and the 2 years of Sanchez/Ryan are basically the only competitive AFC East years in the last 20..
A reading from the book of Football by St Bill Parcells  
Paulie Walnuts : 11/23/2020 10:50 am : link
" your first goal is to win your division, and you do that by beating the teams in it."
RE: RE: RE: Save for exceptions, the AFC East  
pjcas18 : 11/23/2020 10:54 am : link
In comment 15054726 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 15054706 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15054660 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


has been a disaster beyond the Pats..



Good point. The Patriots never had to worry about winning their division after 2002. The AFCE was/is so weak for so long. Even this season, the Patriots are still in contention because the Dolphins and Bills are gaff prone.



This isn't true - the teams in that division were roughly average the past 20 years outside of games played against the Patriots.


Don't bother. The AFC East stinks narrative during the Patriots dominance is all that some people have left to cling to.

Two things people fail to realize - 1 - the Patriots made those other teams so bad. Look at the Patriots inter-conference and inter-division records- they are/were more dominant outside of their division and conference than in it and 2 - the AFC East teams (as a whole) weren't as horrific as people say - at least not the entire time there was usually at least one other competitive team - and many times two AFC East teams in the playoffs.
I agree with him.  
Section331 : 11/23/2020 10:57 am : link
I think it’s ridiculous that a team with a losing record gets to host a playoff game simply because they won an historically awful division. You could have a 6-win team hosting an 11-win team.

This year, with no, or little home crowd, it doesn’t make as much of a difference, but in normal years it does. I think any division winner under .500 should forfeit home field (unless, of course, the WC is somehow under .500).
RE: I agree that you...  
BigBlueShock : 11/23/2020 11:01 am : link
In comment 15054740 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
can't change any rules in the middle of the season, but if we were not in a position to benefit I suspect some of the opinions here would be different.

The NFC East for many years was the best division in football while other divisions like the NFC West was an annual joke. It’s cyclical. Let’s not act like we have always been in a position to benefit, we have absolutely been on the other end and I don’t remember the NFL changing the rules and I don’t remember Giants fans overwhelmingly suggesting that they should. I’m sure there were some, but I don’t think it was really discussed much while the Giants had to go through a gauntlet each season. I’m sorry, I don’t feel bad that the shoe is on the other foot for a few seasons
You want a game at home  
Sneakers O'toole : 11/23/2020 11:08 am : link
win your division. If anything, eliminate wild cards.
Just look..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/23/2020 11:11 am : link
at how things can change though.

When the 7-8-1 Panthers hosted the 11-5 Cardinals, the Panthers were favored, and they were facing Ryan Lindley at QB. Each year, there are things that happen, whether injuries, weather or records that impact the playoffs.
This sentiment that the NFCE winner gets a free pass this year  
LBH15 : 11/23/2020 11:15 am : link
is going to gather a lot of chatter from guys like Shawne Merriman as the season goes on.

Haha...too bad!
As an aside, Judge’s team  
Big Blue '56 : 11/23/2020 11:23 am : link
has won 1 less game than Belichick’s has...🤣
Compromise?  
Reale01 : 11/23/2020 11:29 am : link
Division winners make playoffs. A team must have a 500 record or better to host a playoff game.
RE: Compromise?  
nyfootballfan : 11/23/2020 11:37 am : link
In comment 15054806 Reale01 said:
Quote:
Division winners make playoffs. A team must have a 500 record or better to host a playoff game.


i think thats a good idea..

also my 2c on this topic is that current format at least keeps interest in several more races around the league and helps promote rivalries which is an important factor.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Save for exceptions, the AFC East  
BrettNYG10 : 11/23/2020 11:47 am : link
In comment 15054757 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15054726 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


In comment 15054706 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15054660 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


has been a disaster beyond the Pats..



Good point. The Patriots never had to worry about winning their division after 2002. The AFCE was/is so weak for so long. Even this season, the Patriots are still in contention because the Dolphins and Bills are gaff prone.



This isn't true - the teams in that division were roughly average the past 20 years outside of games played against the Patriots.



Don't bother. The AFC East stinks narrative during the Patriots dominance is all that some people have left to cling to.

Two things people fail to realize - 1 - the Patriots made those other teams so bad. Look at the Patriots inter-conference and inter-division records- they are/were more dominant outside of their division and conference than in it and 2 - the AFC East teams (as a whole) weren't as horrific as people say - at least not the entire time there was usually at least one other competitive team - and many times two AFC East teams in the playoffs.


I bought into the narrative and then ran the numbers myself. I was surprised.

It's definitely fair to say there was no Steelers/Raven-esque team in the division. But they weren't facing this year's NFC East every year.
The NFL would never go for it, they want as many teams  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/23/2020 11:55 am : link
as possible in the Hunt. The Dallas Giants game may be the most watched of the year potentially.
RE: I’m so tired of this dumb take..  
allstarjim : 11/23/2020 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15054499 Sean said:
Quote:
The first job of any team is to be the best team in their division. Be better than the three other teams, that’s the objective. Whether that be 5-11 or 15-1, it doesn’t matter. Every few years a team will win a division with a below average record.

In 2010 the Giants went 10-6 and missed the playoffs, the Seahawks went 7-9 and won a playoff game. It happens.

The Giants went 11-5 in 2016 and did not win the division.


Devil's Advocate, that's only because the system is set up that way. If it was set up for the 6 (I think 7 this year) best records in the conference making it, then the first job would be to have a record that gets you into the playoffs.

I don't think his argument will get much traction here, but I also think it's a fair argument. If the Giants were 10-6 and missed the playoffs to a 6-10 division winner, something that could theoretically happen to a team like the Cardinals, I am pretty sure this board would have tons of opinions that agree with Merriman.

In fact, this team already knows what's that like, when the Giants went 10-6 and missed the playoffs. They lost a tie breaker to the Eagles that year for the division, lost a tie breaker to the Packers for a wild-card. Funny enough, the Buccaneers also went 10-6 that year and missed the playoffs. The Seahawks made the playoffs as a division winner at 7-9, so I wonder what BBI had to say back in 2010?
I see 2010  
allstarjim : 11/23/2020 12:01 pm : link
has been brought up already. My bad.
RE: I agree with him.  
allstarjim : 11/23/2020 12:03 pm : link
In comment 15054761 Section331 said:
Quote:
I think it’s ridiculous that a team with a losing record gets to host a playoff game simply because they won an historically awful division. You could have a 6-win team hosting an 11-win team.

This year, with no, or little home crowd, it doesn’t make as much of a difference, but in normal years it does. I think any division winner under .500 should forfeit home field (unless, of course, the WC is somehow under .500).


One change I think the NFL should make is to just make the team with the better record get the home game, division winner or not.
.....  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 11/23/2020 12:07 pm : link
If you don't lock up your own division, you're going to have to play on the road.

It adds importance to the divisional win.

It's too subjective, Shawn. Every year theres a wildcard team with a better record than divisional winners. What would be the criteria in which to measure this?
If anything...  
bw in dc : 11/23/2020 12:07 pm : link
they should reconsider the home game part of this instead.

If you win the division with a losing record, and host a playoff game versus a wild card team with a winning record, I could buy giving the wild card the home game.
RE: If anything...  
Big Blue '56 : 11/23/2020 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15054878 bw in dc said:
Quote:
they should reconsider the home game part of this instead.

If you win the division with a losing record, and host a playoff game versus a wild card team with a winning record, I could buy giving the wild card the home game.


And why no one listens to you..😎
RE: If anything...  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/23/2020 12:27 pm : link
In comment 15054878 bw in dc said:
Quote:
they should reconsider the home game part of this instead.

If you win the division with a losing record, and host a playoff game versus a wild card team with a winning record, I could buy giving the wild card the home game.


While I understand the logic, this seems so gimmicky.
As long as there are divisions, division winners should always  
LBH15 : 11/23/2020 12:47 pm : link
get an automatic playoff berth, no matter the record.

I could see the argument for a wild card team with a better overall record getting the home playoff game versus a division winner though. Not a "must-have" change but wouldn't bother me either way.

RE: RE: RE: What is the point of having divisions...  
djm : 11/23/2020 12:54 pm : link
In comment 15054719 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 15054592 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 15054590 EricJ said:


Quote:


if you are not going to award a playoff spot to the winner?



Exactly. If there are divisions, the winner gets a reward. If you disagree with that, then you have to be a proponent of the league going to a Conference format where there are no divisions, no games twice against opponents and a strict ranking from 1 to the number of teams who qualify.



Good point - I sort of agree it's bullshit a 6-10 team might make the playoffs, but the alternatives are worse.

I do think they should just seed playoff teams by record, though. I don't think home games should be a given.


this I could get behind but even then, who cares, just let the average team get lucky once a decade and move on. Everything doesn't always have to fit in just perfectly, but we like to analyze and bitch about everything these days. And really, when the Hawks got in in 2010 they then went out and smacked the Saints in the mouth and won a playoff game. The Hawks were well on their way to earning their stripes. MAybe the 2020 Giants can mimic that 2010 team.
RE: I agree with him.  
djm : 11/23/2020 12:58 pm : link
In comment 15054761 Section331 said:
Quote:
I think it’s ridiculous that a team with a losing record gets to host a playoff game simply because they won an historically awful division. You could have a 6-win team hosting an 11-win team.

This year, with no, or little home crowd, it doesn’t make as much of a difference, but in normal years it does. I think any division winner under .500 should forfeit home field (unless, of course, the WC is somehow under .500).


this is neither here or there, and maybe this is a ridiculous take, but how come no one gives the NFC East a break since you know, it's literally the most successful division in PRO Sports. Any team residing in this division over the last 50 years has had to earn it like no other team in any other sport.

Is the NFL throwing any breaks to these NFC East teams when decade after decade other divisions underperform the East? Don't the Giants have the toughest fucking schedule going YET AGAIN? But no one cares about that.

The AFC East is finally not terrible. Good for them. It only took 20 years.
and let me keep ranting  
djm : 11/23/2020 1:01 pm : link
is the AFC East truly better than the NFC East? You telling me the Giants or Skins or Dallas couldn't beat Miami? Or the Pats? Even the Bills? Ok The Bills I might give you but let's slow down on the AFC East for just a moment.

The only divisions that are clearly better to me are the AFC North and the NFC West. The rest ? We're splitting hairs. I know record is the end all be all, but my point remains that that these teams are all so close, records be damned.
Home field advantage and Giants don't really go together  
DC Gmen Fan : 11/23/2020 1:03 pm : link
Just like most of you have, I've personally witnessed some of the most gut wrenching losses, all of which took place at home.
RE: RE: RE: RE: What is the point of having divisions...  
BrettNYG10 : 11/23/2020 1:10 pm : link
In comment 15054938 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15054719 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


In comment 15054592 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 15054590 EricJ said:


Quote:


if you are not going to award a playoff spot to the winner?



Exactly. If there are divisions, the winner gets a reward. If you disagree with that, then you have to be a proponent of the league going to a Conference format where there are no divisions, no games twice against opponents and a strict ranking from 1 to the number of teams who qualify.



Good point - I sort of agree it's bullshit a 6-10 team might make the playoffs, but the alternatives are worse.

I do think they should just seed playoff teams by record, though. I don't think home games should be a given.



this I could get behind but even then, who cares, just let the average team get lucky once a decade and move on. Everything doesn't always have to fit in just perfectly, but we like to analyze and bitch about everything these days. And really, when the Hawks got in in 2010 they then went out and smacked the Saints in the mouth and won a playoff game. The Hawks were well on their way to earning their stripes. MAybe the 2020 Giants can mimic that 2010 team.


I agree, it's a minor thing I'd like to see changed but I really don't care that much.
I wouldn't change  
pjcas18 : 11/23/2020 1:13 pm : link
anything.

People bitch about everything and if something is done to change this, people will bitch about the change.
RE: It's also unfair...  
montanagiant : 11/23/2020 1:26 pm : link
In comment 15054500 Jint 77 said:
Quote:
To use performance enhancing drugs in professional sports.
Perfectly stated to show the hypocrisy of this idiot claiming anything is unfair
RE: RE: It's also unfair...  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/23/2020 1:46 pm : link
In comment 15054982 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 15054500 Jint 77 said:


Quote:


To use performance enhancing drugs in professional sports.

Perfectly stated to show the hypocrisy of this idiot claiming anything is unfair


NFL players do not view steroids the way the general public does. Getting caught is generally a career killer because then you get put in the program and you can't do the things everyone else is. We got lucky Big Dex didn't have to enter the NFL's program.
RE: I wouldn't change  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/23/2020 1:47 pm : link
In comment 15054967 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
anything.

People bitch about everything and if something is done to change this, people will bitch about the change.


I'd bitch if they changed it. We missed the playoffs one year because of it and I thought it was completely fair. Beat the ohter teams in your division period.
I'm not even joking...  
Neckbone1333 : 11/23/2020 2:05 pm : link
I thought he was dead for some reason. I know Seau passed, but my brain told me he did too. With that said, his opinion still matters to me, as much as if he was though.
RE: RE: If anything...  
bw in dc : 11/23/2020 3:02 pm : link
In comment 15054906 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15054878 bw in dc said:


Quote:


they should reconsider the home game part of this instead.

If you win the division with a losing record, and host a playoff game versus a wild card team with a winning record, I could buy giving the wild card the home game.



While I understand the logic, this seems so gimmicky.


Really? Pretty straightforward solution, and probably one that is only exercised every few years.

You're not giving the division "winner" with a losing record the death penalty by excluding from the playoffs. So it's a reasonable compromise.
A solution was already created to address this concern  
Milton : 11/23/2020 3:20 pm : link
It's the wild card and that's why we have wild card teams in the playoffs (philosophically speaking that is, there are economic reasons that are more important to the owners). If you're not good enough to be a wild card team under the current format (which already allows for two wild cards per league), you don't get to complain about a division winner having a worse record than you.
RE: and let me keep ranting  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/23/2020 5:09 pm : link
In comment 15054953 djm said:
Quote:
is the AFC East truly better than the NFC East? You telling me the Giants or Skins or Dallas couldn't beat Miami? Or the Pats? Even the Bills? Ok The Bills I might give you but let's slow down on the AFC East for just a moment.

The only divisions that are clearly better to me are the AFC North and the NFC West. The rest ? We're splitting hairs. I know record is the end all be all, but my point remains that that these teams are all so close, records be damned.

Convenient that the only divisions that are clearly better to you are the two that you won't be able to use a hypothetical/imaginary possibility on, because those divisions will have steamrolled the NFC East this year.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think the NFC South, AFC South, and AFC West are all better. Could the Giants (or any NFCE team) possibly hang with those divisions' respective cellar dwellers? Yeah, maybe. But all of those divisions have a top end that the NFCE does not have. The best team in any of those divisions, and probably the second best team in those divisions also, would clinch the NFC East title by the second week in December.

Even with the Jets in it, the AFC East is probably better than the NFC East, too. The NFC North isn't especially impressive, except that Green Bay would win our division going away.

It's not just that the NFC East is bad. It's that all four teams are bad enough that they'd contend for last place in almost any other division, or at best 3rd place. I'm not sure why this is even really debatable - we all know the NFC East is putrid this year. There's no need to be in denial about it.
The wild card system is so the owners could sell more tickets  
short lease : 11/23/2020 8:15 pm : link
(more money) .... now the league is presented with a situation where 1 division may finish with 5 wins as the division victor. They get the week off and will have to host the victor of the wildcard weekend?

Rules are rules ... they should not start adjusting the rules because something seems a little unfair in any particular season.

Let the system prevail ... regardless of any record. That's it. Are they going to start re-writing the rules of the play-off system every year to suit the records of the teams ...? huh?
Disgrace  
Dragon : 11/24/2020 5:17 pm : link
This will almost assuredly change the system in some form they may need to look at realignment with only an East and Western division set up. The number of teams making the playoffs not more important as wins. How do you explain to fans that a 5 or 6 wins team plays and your team with 8 or more wins sits at home? The system would also prevent the needless multi Giants vs Team, Cowboys and Eagles all of these teams are horrendous. Yes it’s a terrible year but moving forward it’s about the integrity of the game, this is a lesson to be learned necessity breads invention.
RE: Disgrace  
Milton : 11/24/2020 9:26 pm : link
In comment 15056137 Dragon said:
Quote:
How do you explain to fans that a 5 or 6 wins team plays and your team with 8 or more wins sits at home?
You tell them that their team should've won their division or at the very least they should've finished with a better record than the two wild card teams that did make the playoffs despite not winning their division! If you can't even be the second best wild card team you don't belong in the playoffs and shouldn't be bellyaching about some division winner that you believe also shouldn't be in the playoffs.
RE: The wild card system is so the owners could sell more tickets  
adamg : 11/25/2020 1:29 am : link
In comment 15055289 short lease said:
Quote:
(more money) .... now the league is presented with a situation where 1 division may finish with 5 wins as the division victor. They get the week off and will have to host the victor of the wildcard weekend?

Rules are rules ... they should not start adjusting the rules because something seems a little unfair in any particular season.

Let the system prevail ... regardless of any record. That's it. Are they going to start re-writing the rules of the play-off system every year to suit the records of the teams ...? huh?



This x1000.

This is like changing the pass interference rules. An overreaction to an outlier.

How about the fans of wild card teams grow a fucking sack?
RE: RE: The wild card system is so the owners could sell more tickets  
short lease : 11/25/2020 2:49 pm : link
In comment 15056338 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15055289 short lease said:


Quote:


(more money) .... now the league is presented with a situation where 1 division may finish with 5 wins as the division victor. They get the week off and will have to host the victor of the wildcard weekend?

Rules are rules ... they should not start adjusting the rules because something seems a little unfair in any particular season.

Let the system prevail ... regardless of any record. That's it. Are they going to start re-writing the rules of the play-off system every year to suit the records of the teams ...? huh?




This x1000.

This is like changing the pass interference rules. An overreaction to an outlier.

How about the fans of wild card teams grow a fucking sack?



: )
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