This is the offseason where Barkley would expect to get paid. Zeke, McCaffrey and Kamara all signed their second contracts after their third season. The Giants can kick the can down the road by picking up his fifth year option, with the argument that they need to see how he recovers, but then you risk a real nasty situation next year if he plays well in 2021.
I think a lot of this depends on who is making the decision. Gettleman is not going to walk away from a guy he drafted second overall. Judge might. A new GM might. Hard to say unless we see a change made, I think that’s unlikely unless they go 2-4 or worse the rest of the way. Even 2-4 might be enough.
I would personally look to move him, curious about the rest of the board. So far we know he’s very talented but really only one spectacular year. 2019 was a disappointment, 2020 a total washout.
It’s a difficult decision but also one of the most important decisions this franchise will face in the near future.
Quote:
has a Frank Gore career ahead of him.
Dude is freak athlete, is there really anyone to compare him too? Peterson maybe? I really don't think anyone knows how long he will be effect in this league for.
Let it play out. If he really want a new contract, sign him at any time if the deal is team friendly (meaning they can get out of it a anytime without big dead money hit), the early they do it, the more team friendly it gets. But really what is best for both parties is to just let it play out and take it from there.
The guy Barkley reminds me of most is Reggie Bush. Both drafted #2 with an insane, impossible to live up to amount of pre draft hype. To my amateur eyes a similar skill set, shifty, speed backs that make crazy cuts and highlight real plays and be very active in the pass game. Reggie Bush had a solid, ok career but nothing that ever came close to the hype (people were proclaiming he was going to be the best of all time before he played a down). Bounced around the league and is never mentioned at all any more and he hasn’t been gone that long.
Exactly who I think of. Unfortunately, likely terps is right. He will be best known as a freakish prospect who had his career shortened by injuries and was stuck behind a horrendous offensive that got him banged up prematurely
He needs to work on blitz pickup as many young backs do. He sometimes tries to do too much instead of getting the 3 yards up the gut. Again, a habit a lot of young backs have. We have to watch to see if on the whole that's a pro or con. He also has to learn to pick his spots. Sometimes we just need the 3 yards, sometimes it's OK to bounce outside and try for a bigger play and risk losing 3.
No back behind the OL we've had could do much. Comparisons to other backs without looking at their OL and passing games are not the full picture. That first game this year, they came hunting SB immediately and we had no blocking and no effective answer. If they come down hill like that to SB the play action game should open up. If it's just a jailbreak each time, no O works period.
The only other thing I'll add is that the owners probably have a little more desire to keep SB than fans. He's the face of the franchise and the player that sells more merch and puts more people in stands, and that TV wants to see. He's our only star. Add to that he's a very good person, as opposed to OBJ the prima donna/attention seeker.
Regardless, the outcome is the same - you see how he comes back and take the final year of his contract.
Too many negative or zero yard gains. Should spread him out wide more, like the Rams used to do with M Faulk. They just blitz him on passing downs when he is backfield to force him to stay in and block.
Barkley was getting hit behind the LOS. They were at his knees 2-3 yds behind the chains. He turned -5 yarders into 0 yds with sheer ability.
Try to envision him behind this line, Alfred Morris was getting 10 yds a pop. What would Barkley do? Do you think he'd be getting hit behind the LOS this season?
I love Barkley's talent, and he has been hampered by a bad line, but he still has a lot to do to get in the conversation of the best back in the league. He dances too much and has too many negative runs, and his pass blocking is atrocious.
I am hoping Barkley becomes what we all thought he would when he was drafted, but right now there is very much a Reggie Bush feel to his career.
Quote:
In comment 15054975 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Zeke has the same yards/catch as Barkley - 8.2 - in his 66 career games that Barkley does in his 31. So it's not like there's this great dimension that Barkley brings that Zeke doesn't. If anything, Zeke has brought things Barkley doesn't...availability and an ability to block. Barkley's a liability in the backfield on third down because everyone knows he can't block. Seeing him back there next to the QB is like an invitation to blitz. Saquon can clearly be more available and be a better blocker, but he only looks poor because at his size he should be much better. He shouldn't really be blocking in most sets anyway.
If you want to use Zeke as a measuring stick for Barkley, note that Zeke is already starting to wear down in year 5 and he doesn't have Barkley's injury history.
Talking about Barkley as part of the long term plan is really premature; putting him in the HOF goes beyond premature and into crazy.
If you think just looking at stats tells you this story, its unbelievable naive. CMC, Kamara, and Barkley are all guys you can run routes with. Zeke did a ton of damage in the passing game because other teams had to play man and run blitz to stop their all pro offensive line, opening up slip screens for big gains. Cmon man. I think it's way to early to be including Barkley in our long term plans, but you clearly already have your mind made up and are looking for stats to validate that opinion.
I'd be careful calling anyone naive; you're the one making a case based on...what is it based on?
What claims am I making? That those 3 and Zeke aren’t the same? Anyone that understands football can you tell you that. Zeke fits the mold of classic bell cow back while the other 3 fit a much different mold. Something fairly new to the game the way it has evolved. Not sure how I can quantify it, but I know what my eyeballs tell me.
but you have people here who felt we should have traded Odell before we signed him and before he stepped on the field immediately after rehabbing an injury.
1. stay healthy
2. learn how to block
3. learn to hit the hole hard. when a rusher broke through our OL this year Barkley would stop dead and look to juke. he needs to run through the first tackle and stop thinking of himself as the next Barry Sanders. the TFLs are drive killers (i know i'll get crap for this point, but go back and watch the first few games before Barkley got hurt).
based on actual production and availability to date there are a lot of former Giant RBs i'd be more comfortable with.
Thank you. The dead stop instead of running right past first guy has been driving me crazy. That and the way he stops in open field when someone tries to tackle him high. Keep your feet moving. These are college RB moves. Does not work at this level.
I thought he would be better getting north-south with hitting holes quicker. Instead of bouncing around and free-lancing. He was basically giving free-lancing rights at PSU under Franklin.
He needs better coaching and discipline with that phase of the game. That's why I think Chubb and Jacobs - two peers - are better. They don't look for style points. They get to the hole and hit it hard.
So there needs to be better balance between hitting holes and free-lancing...
Barkley knows his market value isn't peaked right now. He needs a big year.
I really think the NFL game has messed him up. He's lost a lot of weight, probably realizing he was never going to be a power back and trying to maximize his quickness. You could see the frustration all over his face these last 2 years.
What's the common denominator between running between the tackles and pass blocking? Despite his build, he has no interest in the physical part of the game. I don't see that improving coming off injury either. He already admitted he is not good coming off injuries due to the mental side. ACL is all mental. I'll be rooting for him, but now is not the time for either side to talk contract.
As others have said, don't overspend at the position, but also let's be real, he's an amazing player who would be be great to keep if it can be done at a reasonable cost.
None of us have a clue what he will get in the next contract. Blanket statements about not paying him without knowing the cost don’t make any sense. We don’t have to decide now, there’s really not much else to say about it.
That is a lot of mileage.
We missed the boat on getting a discount after year 3. I think we will definitely pick up his option and from there who knows, too many t factors.
In the end I think it will boil down to three things:
1. Drafting a running back that high was a mistake
2. He had bad injury luck
3. When healthy he wasn't as good a player as was sold to the fans
I disagree on #3. When healthy and with decent blocking Barkley was as advertised.
Quote:
has a Frank Gore career ahead of him.
Dude is freak athlete, is there really anyone to compare him too? Peterson maybe? I really don't think anyone knows how long he will be effect in this league for.
Let it play out. If he really want a new contract, sign him at any time if the deal is team friendly (meaning they can get out of it a anytime without big dead money hit), the early they do it, the more team friendly it gets. But really what is best for both parties is to just let it play out and take it from there.
The guy Barkley reminds me of most is Reggie Bush. Both drafted #2 with an insane, impossible to live up to amount of pre draft hype. To my amateur eyes a similar skill set, shifty, speed backs that make crazy cuts and highlight real plays and be very active in the pass game. Reggie Bush had a solid, ok career but nothing that ever came close to the hype (people were proclaiming he was going to be the best of all time before he played a down). Bounced around the league and is never mentioned at all any more and he hasn’t been gone that long.
I think you're right.
In the meantime you prolly need to draft an RB in round 4 or better this coming yearr if you let Gallman walk.
With the OL the way it has been the past few years, Barkley still had the ability to make a play and take it to the house no matter where they were on the field. Thinking back to his rookie year, how many 50+ yard plays did he have? He by far led the league and that was behind a patchwork OL.
You want that type of player on your team and it can only help the offense and keep the opposing defense honest. Personally, if Garrett is back, I would really look forward to seeing what type of game plans he would come up with having Barkley healthy. It opens up the entire offense.
You can't move the goal posts beyond what the expectations were for Barkley when we drafted him. Franchise RB (a concept that doesn't make sense) who graded out next to Peyton Manning and would transform the offense. It turns out nothing was transformed, he was a liability in obvious passing downs due to his blocking, and he spent half of his first 3 seasons injured. He's been ably replaced by the likes of Wayne Gallman, Devonta Freeman, and Alfred Morris - proving that running the ball is more about blocking and scheme than it is the running back.
Barkley was supposed to be the best RB in the league coming off the bus - he was never that. In fact, we all feel better about the team now than at any point since he's been drafted despite his absence.
This isn't knocking him. It's knocking the foolishness of the pick and the future foolishness of committing a second contract to him.
Sure the team didn't win because they sucked, but you can't pin that on him.
You can argue DG shouldn't have went RB at #2, but I draw the line on bashing Barkley. He's performed as advertised.
Quote:
and I want to see him behind a competent oline. If he wasn’t as advertised as a rookie and then the 2H of last year after the HAS than I don’t know what to tell you. It’s just goal post moving for anyone that needs to rely on a dumb one liner from our GM.
You can't move the goal posts beyond what the expectations were for Barkley when we drafted him. Franchise RB (a concept that doesn't make sense) who graded out next to Peyton Manning and would transform the offense. It turns out nothing was transformed, he was a liability in obvious passing downs due to his blocking, and he spent half of his first 3 seasons injured. He's been ably replaced by the likes of Wayne Gallman, Devonta Freeman, and Alfred Morris - proving that running the ball is more about blocking and scheme than it is the running back.
Barkley was supposed to be the best RB in the league coming off the bus - he was never that. In fact, we all feel better about the team now than at any point since he's been drafted despite his absence.
This isn't knocking him. It's knocking the foolishness of the pick and the future foolishness of committing a second contract to him.
Pointing to what he did as a rookie isn’t moving goal posts just because you say it is. The injuries have sucked but he was absolutely as advertised in 2018. We had a terrible coach, terrible line and Eli was finished. Don’t know what else to tell you.
And I’m not going to bother with you on what we are now because that’s the definition of what you are accusing me of. Barkley never got to playfor this coaching staff (save for 2 games with no offseason) and this line, so just stop.
And nevertheless, the Giants should be thinking Running Back somewhere on Day 2 or 3 in the next draft.
Sure the team didn't win because they sucked, but you can't pin that on him.
You can argue DG shouldn't have went RB at #2, but I draw the line on bashing Barkley. He's performed as advertised.
And it seems he peaked in his rookie year. Which isn't unheard of for RBs.
I think he was a decent football player, but not really a good winning RB. I think even Shurmur realized this, which is why his carries were often spotty. Who knows what Barkley is now, but he would've been best used lined up in different places to get him out in space, with the occasional carry. He was not - is not - a bellcow.
Definitely not someone you pick with the #2 overall pick.
His touches weren't reduced. He is definitely a bell cow.
Also you might want to look up what a bell is is. Ezekiel Elliott who almost never comes off the field averaged 22.5 touches per game in his 3 best seasons. So he isn’t a bell ow either? Who is?
I’d argue Barkley would get as many or more touches in Dallas than Elliott did.
Also you might want to look up what a bell is is. Ezekiel Elliott who almost never comes off the field averaged 22.5 touches per game in his 3 best seasons. So he isn’t a bell ow either? Who is?
It’s wild. It’s like they are moving back in time to when guys would rush the ball 25 times a game and you’d be lucky to get 3-4 years out of them. I think if some of these guys could go spend a week in defensive meeting rooms when preparing to play the Giants they’d make total 180s. I mean probably not because they are so certain they are right.
Either way, after seeing what Cupp has looked like this year, very excited what this offense is going to look like with him back and a high draft pick on outside.
SB will be coming off his first major injury how that goes only the Gods knows but he’s got youth and talent to work with. Have they learned anything from the SB injury I wonder not much done team wide to prevent this same occurrence in the future. Now Gallman has shown a little but in truth he’s a 3/4 option RB he’s not your number one or two option realistically, he’s shown us what he is no more no less. Let’s not even consider the other RB guys on this roster none present anything special going forward is that not supposed to be in the plan. In reality they must look at the RB position early in the draft preferably or in FA. Or will they plan on having DJ once again leading the team in rushing not sure how long he can continue to do that and remain injury free, same team future planning as with SB if that should occur.
I don’t know what future plans the Giants are making but the overall roster has no options behind any valued young starters going forward amazingly. What happens if DJ, Slayton, Lawrence, Martinez or Bradberry should go down all the other players on this team are overrated or stop gaps guys only. We’re ten games into the season but looking at the future we’re not developing much to say we’re closing the door talent wise in the NFL today or for tomorrow. The NFL is a young mans game but for some reason this teams continues to look at vets to gain roster spots how does that help the team going forward?
You can argue that DG shouldn't have picked a RB at #2, but I will push back on Barkley not being as advertised. People need to separate the two.
The guy was Rookie of the Year, and over the 1st two seasons he rushed for over 2,300 yds and caught passes for over 1,150 yds. This was done with crap on the offense besides him. He is a stud. I can't wait to see what he does behind this young and improving line.
Finally he runs hard. This "he runs weak and dances too much" is another BBI myth.
That said, I'll be very happy to see him play again on the Giants next year and for many years after.
My confidence in him as a player is not shaken the slightest, it's just some bad luck on the injury front that could happen to anybody.
I know this is subjective, but Derrick Henry is a Moose who runs like a cheetah.
Barkley can run around defenders. And it's beautiful.
But Henry get run around, over, and through defenders. He just crushes a defense. On Sunday, he made the Ravens say Uncle...
Barkley caught more passes in his rookie season (92) than Henry has caught over his entire 5 year (almost) career - 69.
Way more...
I wish things were different, I wish we got our act together sooner so we could have benefitted more from having a guy like Barkley - hopefully we will get that next season. Sometimes timing is everything.
Dragon : 11/24/2020 4:50 pm : link : reply
Look at the league trend most teams have three to four RB’s that rotate into the game if one is hurt there’s another guy ready to step right in.
Most teams?? Who are these teams and how effective are they? The teams with top backs aren't utilizing this strategy. The Panthers, the Cowboys, the Raiders, the Titans, the Vikings, the Falcons, the Chiefs aren't doing this. Some teams have 2 RB's in terms of reliable production like the Saints, the Browns, the Broncos and the Rams.
Even teams rotating in backs because of injuries still settle on a main guy like the Giants have. Or the Seahawks. Or the Cardinals. Even the Steelers, who work in other backs have gone weeks with barely utilizing Snell. It is basically Connor.
I can only think of a couple teams who rotate in several backs by design. The Patriots. The Colts.
I wish things were different, I wish we got our act together sooner so we could have benefitted more from having a guy like Barkley - hopefully we will get that next season. Sometimes timing is everything.
That’s what makes Barkley special. No other RB in the league is sniffing those numbers in 2018 except maybe CMC. Can you imagine the numbers he’s going to put up next year now we have a competent offensive line? I really hope he comes back healthy to put this nonsense to a rest. I’m a don’t pay RBs guy too, but there’s notable exceptions. It’s guys like Zeke and Henry where I thing the decision gets dicey.
I wish things were different, I wish we got our act together sooner so we could have benefitted more from having a guy like Barkley - hopefully we will get that next season. Sometimes timing is everything.
That’s what makes Barkley special. No other RB in the league is sniffing those numbers in 2018 except maybe CMC. Can you imagine the numbers he’s going to put up next year now we have a competent offensive line? I really hope he comes back healthy to put this nonsense to a rest. I’m a don’t pay RBs guy too, but there’s notable exceptions. It’s guys like Zeke and Henry where I thing the decision gets dicey.
I wish things were different, I wish we got our act together sooner so we could have benefitted more from having a guy like Barkley - hopefully we will get that next season. Sometimes timing is everything.
Henry would work anywhere, just to varying degrees. He's more north-south and punishing than Barkley. Much better between the tackles.
Barkley is more dynamic and a better receiver, but I doubt the linebackers and safeties are worried about massages and ice-packs after facing Barkley.