And some very good comments from Leonard Williams. While I disagreed with trading picks for him and thought they should have just waited for FA, I have to say I am impressed with his play and his character.
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The trade is done. Let’s keep him if possible. If not, so be it..
He may not get the pressure Aaron Donald gets, although he is not far behind and he is much better against the run, IMHO.
Pay the man.
The trade is done. Let’s keep him if possible. If not, so be it..
BB56 can't agree more. The timing of the tarde may have caught folks off guard but, he is here and for a 3-4 (ish) he is a perfect fit for that. If we had a true Edge guy Williams numbers would be even better. At times he just mauls through guys and I think we need to keep him long term.
While any player will look out for his best interest in contract negotiations, it is difficult to see why a reasonable, yet lucrative, deal for Williams should not be struck.
wasn't he looking for one last year too?
We can't pay him and find a pass-rusher is what many on BBI have been parroting lately. I find that to be complete nonsense, but it is what it is. Fans are scared to see the Giants spend money on one of the best #/4 DEs in the game. Yesterday I actually saw a post that said they were glad the Knicks didn't have any max talents because max contracts are insanely high. That right there says it all.
Yea, it's not like the guy made a pro bowl in 2016 or consistently beings pressure year in year out while stuffinf the run at a high level.
Also, he has played for FOUR, count them FOUR different head coaches since entering the NFL 6 years ago.
Maybe the guy has just developed into a great 2 way player thanks to good coaching and stability? Could that be it?
He's better than Chris Canty. And Canty made a MINT here. What the hell is the problem?
The logic escapes me.
And Paul Schwartz doesn't play the house organ; he IS the house organ.
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for a contract. Imagine that.
Yea, it's not like the guy made a pro bowl in 2016 or consistently beings pressure year in year out while stuffinf the run at a high level.
Also, he has played for FOUR, count them FOUR different head coaches since entering the NFL 6 years ago.
Maybe the guy has just developed into a great 2 way player thanks to good coaching and stability? Could that be it?
He's better than Chris Canty. And Canty made a MINT here. What the hell is the problem?
The "problem" is the usual "everything the Giants/DG/Mara do is wrong" crowd. Anyone who compliments a move is either a blind loyalist (Fan) or a house organ (writer/commentator).
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for a contract. Imagine that.
Yea, it's not like the guy made a pro bowl in 2016 or consistently beings pressure year in year out while stuffinf the run at a high level.
Also, he has played for FOUR, count them FOUR different head coaches since entering the NFL 6 years ago.
Maybe the guy has just developed into a great 2 way player thanks to good coaching and stability? Could that be it?
He's better than Chris Canty. And Canty made a MINT here. What the hell is the problem?
Right...what the hell is the problem?
Why didn't Gettleman get him signed already? What is he waiting for?
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
The trade is done. Let’s keep him if possible. If not, so be it..
Its tiresome for sure. I can count on one hand the number of 3rd round picks that have worked out well for us, its such a crap shoot.
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for a contract. Imagine that.
Yeah. Beware the player playing for the big multi-year contract. This is the same guy who disappeared last year when we had a pattycake schedule.
And Paul Schwartz doesn't play the house organ; he IS the house organ.
And the flip side is that his coaching staff is light year better than any he's had to date.
I know its cool to hate everything but maybe, just maybe he's actually a good player?
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for a contract. Imagine that.
Yeah. Beware the player playing for the big multi-year contract. This is the same guy who disappeared last year when we had a pattycake schedule.
And Paul Schwartz doesn't play the house organ; he IS the house organ.
no defensive lineman will show an impact when you have a weak secondary (last year). Watch the games, Williams gets double teamed 90% of the time.
Now with Bradberry/Martinez being here things are different.
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set you back years..Countless times, many teams have screwed the pooch on their first, second and 3rd rounders. The man is solid, 26 years old and can anchor our line for years.
The trade is done. Let’s keep him if possible. If not, so be it..
Its tiresome for sure. I can count on one hand the number of 3rd round picks that have worked out well for us, its such a crap shoot.
They need to find better shooters.
When was he not playing well? He was always pretty good. Now he he is a better system. I will not dismiss the contract year impetus, but he was never chopped liver. He was out of position on the Jets.
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for a contract. Imagine that.
Yeah. Beware the player playing for the big multi-year contract. This is the same guy who disappeared last year when we had a pattycake schedule.
And Paul Schwartz doesn't play the house organ; he IS the house organ.
Yea, I can completely rip this logic apart with facts if you really want me to. Beware the contract hungry player...beware...
Except, in this NFL age we now live in, contracts are not fully guaranteed so if the player decides to "check out" he's not getting all that money he just signed for one year prior.
Also, guys just signing their 2nd contract don't typically check out because they are professional athletes that don't want to lose games or look like shit or get cut.
In other words, give the guy some fucking credit. Not every pro athlete is a piece of lazy trash.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Also, there's no book out there that mandates you can't have a high priced DT (and DE) AND add a high priced pass rusher.
THe 2010 Giants would like to say hello. Remember us?
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set you back years..Countless times, many teams have screwed the pooch on their first, second and 3rd rounders. The man is solid, 26 years old and can anchor our line for years.
The trade is done. Let’s keep him if possible. If not, so be it..
BB56 can't agree more. The timing of the tarde may have caught folks off guard but, he is here and for a 3-4 (ish) he is a perfect fit for that. If we had a true Edge guy Williams numbers would be even better. At times he just mauls through guys and I think we need to keep him long term.
I loved the trade from the time it happened. Never understood the idea that because he was a free agent you don’t trade for him.
A 3rd round pick seems like a pretty good deal for their best player on defense
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In comment 15055527 Big Blue '56 said:
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set you back years..Countless times, many teams have screwed the pooch on their first, second and 3rd rounders. The man is solid, 26 years old and can anchor our line for years.
The trade is done. Let’s keep him if possible. If not, so be it..
BB56 can't agree more. The timing of the tarde may have caught folks off guard but, he is here and for a 3-4 (ish) he is a perfect fit for that. If we had a true Edge guy Williams numbers would be even better. At times he just mauls through guys and I think we need to keep him long term.
I loved the trade from the time it happened. Never understood the idea that because he was a free agent you don’t trade for him.
A 3rd round pick seems like a pretty good deal for their best player on defense
I also never understood the idea of trading for a player that you don't sign to an extended contract.
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football team outside of his high level play. That quote says it all.
He may not get the pressure Aaron Donald gets, although he is not far behind and he is much better against the run, IMHO.
Pay the man.
I supported the trade, was bummed he could not be signed to a long term contract, support signing him now for up to 17/18M AAG.
But c'mon now, he's not near the disruptive force Donald is. You're talking the consecutive year over year NFL DPOY, or is it 3 DPOYs for AD?
LW isn't sniffing DPOY status, get real.
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In comment 15055538 jvm52106 said:
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In comment 15055527 Big Blue '56 said:
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set you back years..Countless times, many teams have screwed the pooch on their first, second and 3rd rounders. The man is solid, 26 years old and can anchor our line for years.
The trade is done. Let’s keep him if possible. If not, so be it..
BB56 can't agree more. The timing of the tarde may have caught folks off guard but, he is here and for a 3-4 (ish) he is a perfect fit for that. If we had a true Edge guy Williams numbers would be even better. At times he just mauls through guys and I think we need to keep him long term.
I loved the trade from the time it happened. Never understood the idea that because he was a free agent you don’t trade for him.
A 3rd round pick seems like a pretty good deal for their best player on defense
I also never understood the idea of trading for a player that you don't sign to an extended contract.
Yes you do. You understand that teams and players negotiate and bluff and wait things out. It happens all the time.
Actually, I didn't realize it was so commonplace. Who are some of these guys?
Actually, I didn't realize it was so commonplace. Who are some of these guys?
Off the top of my head from last year there's Clowney (traded for a 3rd rd pick plus players to Seattle) and Sanu (for a 2nd rd pick to the Pats).
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and then don't sign them to an extended deal...all the time?
Actually, I didn't realize it was so commonplace. Who are some of these guys?
Off the top of my head from last year there's Clowney (traded for a 3rd rd pick plus players to Seattle) and Sanu (for a 2nd rd pick to the Pats).
I think the Patriots just released Sanu. He was under contract. Clowney is more comparable, although he was left to just go into free agency.
This situation would be easier to shit all over if he stunk but since he doesn’t finding things to complain about gets harder.
He's not playing 'much' better. Maybe relative to his short stint with the Giants last year when he had to learn the schemes on the fly, but his overall numbers this year aren't significantly better than his career bests.
If you want to see what 'playing for a contract' looks like, look up Dupree's numbers last year and this.
I don’t know if there’s a limit but next year it would cost about $20m to tag him again. So it’s technically an option and one I’d consider if he is looking for $20m a year and won’t budge down to $16-17m give/take. But it depends on the guarantees - if we can sign him to a Dee Ford type deal I’d do that in a heartbeat.
no defensive lineman will show an impact when you have a weak secondary (last year). Watch the games, Williams gets double teamed 90% of the time.
Now with Bradberry/Martinez being here things are different.
That's an excellent point. Williams did have 11 QBHits with the Giants last season. Having a CB like Bradberry that makes the QB hesitate a split second or go to his second read allows the rushers to turn a few of those hits into sacks.
Career averages (excluding 2020): 3.5 sacks 7 TFL 20 QBHits
2016: 7 sacks 11 TFL 19 QBHits
2017: 2 sacks 3 TFL 25 QBHits
2018: 5 sacks 11 TFL 20 QBHits
2020 (pro-rated): 8 sacks 11 TFL 26 QBHits
Career bests
His pro-rated numbers aren't that much better than his average and/or best seasons.
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that limits how many times you can Tag a player?
I don’t know if there’s a limit but next year it would cost about $20m to tag him again. So it’s technically an option and one I’d consider if he is looking for $20m a year and won’t budge down to $16-17m give/take. But it depends on the guarantees - if we can sign him to a Dee Ford type deal I’d do that in a heartbeat.
Gotcha. Thanks buddy..
Also, Eagles dealt a 3rd(?) for half a season of Golden Tate before we signed him.
This situation would be easier to shit all over if he stunk but since he doesn’t finding things to complain about gets harder.
I didn't suggest Sanu was a good trade or player to sign. And I don't have an angle other than if LW is so good and critical that he should be signed. Don't argue with me...yell at the Gettleman.
And you can depart discussing the situation any time.
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Williams is doing more in 1 game than Sanu ever did for the Pats. I don’t get your angle on this anyway. We don’t know when negotiations started and you can force either side to make a deal.
This situation would be easier to shit all over if he stunk but since he doesn’t finding things to complain about gets harder.
I didn't suggest Sanu was a good trade or player to sign. And I don't have an angle other than if LW is so good and critical that he should be signed. Don't argue with me...yell at the Gettleman.
And you can depart discussing the situation any time.
Do take special pleasure in being an arrogant a...
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that limits how many times you can Tag a player?
I don’t know if there’s a limit but next year it would cost about $20m to tag him again. So it’s technically an option and one I’d consider if he is looking for $20m a year and won’t budge down to $16-17m give/take. But it depends on the guarantees - if we can sign him to a Dee Ford type deal I’d do that in a heartbeat.
Why tag him again? He should just be signed to an extended deal.
If they can't work it out then let him go to free agency and then match his best offer if the Giants can't live without him.
What's the problem with that?
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In comment 15055888 UConn4523 said:
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Williams is doing more in 1 game than Sanu ever did for the Pats. I don’t get your angle on this anyway. We don’t know when negotiations started and you can force either side to make a deal.
This situation would be easier to shit all over if he stunk but since he doesn’t finding things to complain about gets harder.
I didn't suggest Sanu was a good trade or player to sign. And I don't have an angle other than if LW is so good and critical that he should be signed. Don't argue with me...yell at the Gettleman.
And you can depart discussing the situation any time.
Do take special pleasure in being an arrogant a...
I'm not. Nor am I getting rude about the discussion in the thread.
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Williams is doing more in 1 game than Sanu ever did for the Pats. I don’t get your angle on this anyway. We don’t know when negotiations started and you can force either side to make a deal.
This situation would be easier to shit all over if he stunk but since he doesn’t finding things to complain about gets harder.
I didn't suggest Sanu was a good trade or player to sign. And I don't have an angle other than if LW is so good and critical that he should be signed. Don't argue with me...yell at the Gettleman.
And you can depart discussing the situation any time.
Ehh you called the poster out and you were given examples you weren’t thinking of which debunked your angle.
You’re the one arguing with anyone on anything that looks like it might be better than you predicted. Would be lovely to ever see you say “shit I got that one wrong” but alas, you can’t help yourself.
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set you back years..Countless times, many teams have screwed the pooch on their first, second and 3rd rounders. The man is solid, 26 years old and can anchor our line for years.
The trade is done. Let’s keep him if possible. If not, so be it..
BB56 can't agree more. The timing of the tarde may have caught folks off guard but, he is here and for a 3-4 (ish) he is a perfect fit for that. If we had a true Edge guy Williams numbers would be even better. At times he just mauls through guys and I think we need to keep him long term.
Agree? What if the Giants missed out on a stud player with one, or both, picks the gave up for Williams? Not to mention, he's making more this year than he should be (franchise tag), which means we'll seriously overpay when/if we resign him.
You can like the player, but it doesnt change the fact it was a terrible trade.
Nor did I predict anything on this deal. LW is playing good and he appears to be exactly the vision of what the GM wants to do with in building up this team. What I don't understand is why he is not signed longer term.
Williams was right for holding out for a better offer and taking the tag, bad news for him is that he’s likely not getting it in this market.