So this is my personal pet peeve with Giants GM Dave Gettleman, but in three offseasons with the Giants he traded away the only good pass rusher (4-3 end or rushbacker) we had left and hasn't drafted a replacement or had a consistent veteran presence on the roster.
Carter and Ximines haven't quite panned out
Gettleman got cold feet on Josh Allen (of Jacksonville) because he really wanted Dexter Lawrence and Daniel Jones
Whatever pass-rushing specialists have only been signed to one-year deals
Since the Giants almost always have a good or great pass rush whenever they go anywhere in the postseason), it seems baffling to me that Gettleman is dragging his feet on improving the Giants' pass rush; he's been around the Giants long enough to know this.
And worse, Gettleman listed rushing the passer as one of his basic truths of football: "The thought process was, I really believe that as much as the style of play evolves, there are basic truths— you have to run the ball, you have to stop the run, you have to rush the passer. If you are seriously deficient in any one of those three areas, it makes it tough." Yet he hasn't improved the pass rush via the draft or free agency outside of scheme, we still need a guy or two who can consistently beat an offensive lineman one-on-one. He's merely slapped a band-aid on the problem; band-aids don't fix bullet holes.
Nobody waits past year 3 to add or fix a pass rush.
Remember the old adage by Ernie Accorsi that "You can never have too many pass rushers".
Sorry about ranting.
Identifying the Biggest Missing Element in Giants' Pass Rush (dated 8/6/2020) - (
New Window )
I guess it's time to bash DG for taking Barkley over Bradley Chubb. Have at it.
yes, exactly. Good post.
There wasn't a whole lot of other options that would be affordable.
I guess it's time to bash DG for taking Barkley over Bradley Chubb. Have at it.
Exactly. People bitch to bitch. If we got our pass rusher then people will complain he didn't address QB. We got our QB then people complain he didn't fix the OL. He addresses the OL then complain we don't have a pass rusher. Too many holes to fill and not enough resources and opportunities. Hindsight is always 20/20. He didn't get cold feet on Allen. He loved Allen. He didn't want to risk losing our potential franchise QB. That's easily understandable. He also tried trading back up for Allen but couldn't work out a deal.
The wait is indeed frustrating at times, but I like the plan.
Who did he not sign that you wanted?
Clowney?
Trade for Yannick Ngakoue
Everson Griffen?
Jordan Jenkins (was a big name around here for a little bit, what happen to him?)
Shaq Lawson
Carl Nassib
Justin Houston
Trey Flowers
Anthony Barr
Za'Darius Smith *I wanted him*
Preston Smith *I also wanted him*
Claw Matthews
These are just some of the names I remember being thrown around on BBI.
He brought back Golden, that work in the sense they got a draft pick for him, but didn't help the pass rush much.
or was it
Draft Yetur Gross-Matos instead of McKinney?
I would not be shocked at all with this. Our timeline is just starting, making a trade for a big time pass rusher could be in the cards. I love what Rams did for Ramsey.
This seems pretty good, not great surely, but not bad. Are you ranting because you think we should be top 10?
I mean... we need(ed) everything. Only so much $$ and so many picks
Agreed. I would not be disappointed with another CB high. They are that important. With that said, if we keep winning then ER might be a good fit in the first. According to Sy there may not be that top tier talent but there are still a handful of guys worthy of first round picks.
I’d be curious if league wide sack numbers have trended down over the last several years?
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Resources into the secondary which is where they say it should be. Just hasn’t worked out. Not to say we don’t need them, but don’t force picks. We may not come away with one in the first two rounds again this year. Strength of draft is WR and CB, both needs
Agreed. I would not be disappointed with another CB high. They are that important. With that said, if we keep winning then ER might be a good fit in the first. According to Sy there may not be that top tier talent but there are still a handful of guys worthy of first round picks.
Yeh it’s funny, we make the playoffs and we’ll probably give the angry mob what they want, but if we don’t we should be looking at Parsons or Surtain
I’d be curious if league wide sack numbers have trended down over the last several years?
I’ve been a firm believer in this for years and I could see why the analytics back it up. Defensive holding calls are absolute killers and most the time it’s because guts are getting beat, not because they are undisciplined.
Who did he not sign that you wanted?
Clowney?
Trade for Yannick Ngakoue
Everson Griffen?
Jordan Jenkins (was a big name around here for a little bit, what happen to him?)
Shaq Lawson
Carl Nassib
Justin Houston
Trey Flowers
Anthony Barr
Za'Darius Smith *I wanted him*
Preston Smith *I also wanted him*
Claw Matthews
These are just some of the names I remember being thrown around on BBI.
He brought back Golden, that work in the sense they got a draft pick for him, but didn't help the pass rush much.
or was it
Draft Yetur Gross-Matos instead of McKinney?
The only guy on that list that I'd even want is Z Smith and I thought the deal he signed (4 yrs/$66M?) was a bit of a reach at the time.
I think Barr would thrive with JJ/PC, but that's due to his overall versatility more than his mediocre pass rush ability.
Who did he not sign that you wanted?
Clowney?
Trade for Yannick Ngakoue
Everson Griffen?
Jordan Jenkins (was a big name around here for a little bit, what happen to him?)
Shaq Lawson
Carl Nassib
Justin Houston
Trey Flowers
Anthony Barr
Za'Darius Smith *I wanted him*
Preston Smith *I also wanted him*
Claw Matthews
These are just some of the names I remember being thrown around on BBI.
He brought back Golden, that work in the sense they got a draft pick for him, but didn't help the pass rush much.
or was it
Draft Yetur Gross-Matos instead of McKinney?
Clay Matthews was one option I think the Giants should have looked into, there's also drafting Gross-Matos or Epenesa in this years draft, or Maxx Crosby over Oshane Ximines. To give examples.
And maybe we’ll see a TE later on.
Carter looked like everything we could have hoped for the first few games this season. He was active, stopping the run and getting after the QB.
We literally lost our best edge player in Carter and best offensive player in Barkley. We have talent, but the best players got hurt. We'd be 5-5 right now if Bark isn't out for the year or at least 4-6 and controlling our own destiny. Not an excuse but people can't wait to shovel shit on DG in every thread. Sometimes you need to be lucky. Those two injuries were the two we couldn't afford. The D has been fine but the O really took a step back when it lost #26.
Interestingly enough DG has sorta taken the (long range) same approach on the offensive side of the ball, with the huge (failed) exception of the Nate Solder signing as a vet frachise LT.
Drafted Hernandez, Saquon, Jones,brought in Zeitler and looked at Gates as a potential OC inbetween Will and Kevin...
Only then addressed the OT slots with draft picks Thomas and Peart.
And aside from the very successful flyer on Slayton at WR, hasnt invested boo at WR, although he patched OBJ's departure with Tate.
Will 2021 be the year to grab edge players: ER, WR, TE, OLB in the draft?
Well, of course that very much depends on whose avaiable at each draft slot. For sure they will grab a CB when the value looks good...
We're still getting gassed and gashed in the second half of games because our guys can't get to the QB fast enough and the WRs can get open.
Achilles's tendons repairs might be the trickiest of all sports injuries to return from to 100%. They have got to draft an ER this year, at minimum as a hedge against Carter's non return.
Or they see a LOT in Cam Brown or Carter Coughlin...
This seems pretty good, not great surely, but not bad. Are you ranting because you think we should be top 10?
In total sacks, I think they are seventh. And they are above-average in pressure applied for the year.
Graham has clearly taken a page out of the Belichick manual and stitched together Pass-Rush-by-Committee. And it's worked pretty damn well. This formula can actually work if you are very good on the back-end. So that is something to think about going forward...
Clowney? O sacks.....that guy.
Rant...rant all you want....but this is not a magic show.....pulling edge rusher out of the hat.
Argue about releasing JPP....not exactly a 3-4 edge....
And I still contend Lawrence Williams is a decent pass rusher....which will take off with a monster edge.....
Which we all agree is needed.
Clowney? O sacks.....that guy.
Rant...rant all you want....but this is not a magic show.....pulling edge rusher out of the hat.
Argue about releasing JPP....not exactly a 3-4 edge....
And I still contend Lawrence Williams is a decent pass rusher....which will take off with a monster edge.....
Which we all agree is needed.
good post
Based upon advanced stats, coverage that causes a QB to delay a pass is the most significant cause for a sack
Therefore, adding another lock down corner might do more to improve the sacks than a premier rusher.
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Lets see what he comes up with this off-season.
Who did he not sign that you wanted?
Clowney?
Trade for Yannick Ngakoue
Everson Griffen?
Jordan Jenkins (was a big name around here for a little bit, what happen to him?)
Shaq Lawson
Carl Nassib
Justin Houston
Trey Flowers
Anthony Barr
Za'Darius Smith *I wanted him*
Preston Smith *I also wanted him*
Claw Matthews
These are just some of the names I remember being thrown around on BBI.
He brought back Golden, that work in the sense they got a draft pick for him, but didn't help the pass rush much.
or was it
Draft Yetur Gross-Matos instead of McKinney?
Clay Matthews was one option I think the Giants should have looked into, there's also drafting Gross-Matos or Epenesa in this years draft, or Maxx Crosby over Oshane Ximines. To give examples.
Do you want to try again? Maybe you can pick better examples...Clay Matthews is a UFA, and would have been a 1yr deal, something you complained about in the opening comment. Maxx over X-men...that has nothing to do with "why the wait", one just turn out to be a better player than the other. This years draft is yet to be determined, but none of them are helping their team this year...Epenesa has even been inactive for 2 games this year. But that's fine, I'll take that as an example...not that its right or wrong pick...but sure that's an example of what you would have done different. That's what you are going to hang your hat on?
Clowney? O sacks.....that guy.
Rant...rant all you want....but this is not a magic show.....pulling edge rusher out of the hat.
Argue about releasing JPP....not exactly a 3-4 edge....
And I still contend Lawrence Williams is a decent pass rusher....which will take off with a monster edge.....
Which we all agree is needed.
Be a little careful here. Gettleman is on record saying he absolutely wanted Josh Allen with that first pick. And then it was reported he tried to immediately execute a trade up to pick him after he selected Daniel Jones. But Jax drafted him quickly.
The team needs a good edge rusher, badly. And if they don't come available to often in free agency then your GM should put together a credible draft strategy and select one. It's been 3 offseasons now of bypassing them.
Clowney? O sacks.....that guy.
Rant...rant all you want....but this is not a magic show.....pulling edge rusher out of the hat.
Argue about releasing JPP....not exactly a 3-4 edge....
And I still contend Lawrence Williams is a decent pass rusher....which will take off with a monster edge.....
Which we all agree is needed.
JPP's been playing 3-4 edge for the Bucs. Or at least that's what he's listed as.
Leonard Williams could definitely be better with a monster edge.
I hate “throw shit against the wall” posts with loads of examples, each one of which can be debated.
JPP may have transitioned to OLB and has rerurned to being a significant contributor in one of the best front 7s in the league (might be the very best) with legit 4 other playmakers there).
Carter was showing an awful before he got hurt this year.
Lastly, we took potentially our QB of the future who has shown quite a bit where we could have taken Allen (who has looked very meh the year after Yannick left), so I am not buying that either.
Like someone said, Im fine with blasting the Giants for taking Saquon over Chubb. But Saquon has been a far more explosive, game changing offensive player than Chubb has been a defensive player so that example is dissmissed as well.
If I'm looking at where the Giants should spend their blue chip FA and draft resources this off-season, I'd go heavy on the offensive line, TE, and WR. Offense wins in this league.
I hate “throw shit against the wall” posts with loads of examples, each one of which can be debated.
And Jones was 2nd all time in rookie TD passes his rookie year....so that argument is a wash
JPP may have transitioned to OLB and has rerurned to being a significant contributor in one of the best front 7s in the league (might be the very best) with legit 4 other playmakers there).
Carter was showing an awful before he got hurt this year.
Lastly, we took potentially our QB of the future who has shown quite a bit where we could have taken Allen (who has looked very meh the year after Yannick left), so I am not buying that either.
Like someone said, Im fine with blasting the Giants for taking Saquon over Chubb. But Saquon has been a far more explosive, game changing offensive player than Chubb has been a defensive player so that example is dismissed as well.
I was talking about JPP in the OP. And the return on that trade hasn't been great or even good, since B.J. Hill is merely a backup and Kyle Lauletta has barely played.
I would have been fine if we could have gotten Allen, Jones, and Dexter Lawrence in the same round instead of Deandre Baker.
If I'm looking at where the Giants should spend their blue chip FA and draft resources this off-season, I'd go heavy on the offensive line, TE, and WR. Offense wins in this league.
I've been on this for a few weeks, too. Belichick was great at finding undervalued assets from other rosters - Van Noy, Ninkovich, etc - who got consistent pressure around his scheme. And built a stout secondary instead. It's an interesting approach and one I don't mind if the right person is executing the idea...
I guess it's time to bash DG for taking Barkley over Bradley Chubb. Have at it.
Especially when you waste multiple picks on Williams and Baker.
Remember the paranoia over not signing Clowney. Titan fans have despise the signing. Golden was a good attempt but he shows us why he sat in FA.
Single blocked, they would be a handful.