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OL Rotation, Pats did it 5 years ago.

Joey in VA : 11/25/2020 1:11 pm
If this is German I apologize, but in reading up on the travels of Dave DeGuglielmo, I ran across this article from 2105 which speaks to his line rotation idea. So it seems Judge got that originally from his time in NE. That's good, or so I thought. As many have noted Belichick convinced Scarnecchia to unretire and he let Dave D go because he didn't want the rotation all year.

There is a subsequent article which talks about continuity on the OL being a big reason for success and the rotation idea being one that Belichick ultimately didn't like after initially warming to the idea.

My sense is that the rotation is to get guys game reps and eventually setting on a starting 5 with a swing OT but if that's not the case this could spell trouble. I generally use history as a teacher and the last time this was used heavily it ultimately led to Dave D being let go and he's bounced around repeatedly with not so great reviews once he's gone. I trust Judge, but this is something to watch as our unlikely playoff chase begins. This Sunday should tell us pretty quickly if the change was a real negative on the team. I'm hoping it's not.
Rotating mollies - ( New Window )
I remember watching that  
McNally's_Nuts : 11/25/2020 1:16 pm : link
AFC Championship game. It looked like Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware were one step in front of the Pats O-Line the whole game. I thought that was the main reason Gugs was canned up there.
When I heard about the rotation, I assumed that it would  
Marty in Albany : 11/25/2020 1:34 pm : link
be good for rookies who did not have much training because of covid-19. They could run a series or two and get immediate sideline feedback and coaching.

If they were doing something wrong against the defense, they could watch their replacement (hopefully) do it the right way. I assumed that this was not a permanent thing, but a way of dealing with the lack of training because of Covid-19.
It seems like a good idea to me  
rasbutant : 11/25/2020 1:50 pm : link
And yes the line need to be instep with each other, but with the NFL the way it is with injuries you need to have everyone ready to play. Would i do 50/50 playing time, NO. But to work in one new guy on a series here and there, why not. But also think about this..If you have say one guard that is better vs. the pass and one that is better vs. the run. Why not rotate them in based on the flow of the game?

These guys rotate in practice, it's not like the fact they lined up next to someone else for a few snaps that they forgot how to work with the other guy. Also, from a coaches perspective I want everyone in the "room" to be instep with everyone in the room not just the starting 5.
I think it is  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/25/2020 1:52 pm : link
smart for this current OL and new staff. They had no preseason games and the CBA now allows very little hitting in practice.

With three rookies looking like they are the future I think it is good to get a feel for their abilities and learning to play at the NFL level. This also helps with coaching during the week and gives the franchise a good idea how much they need address the OL in next years draft/FA imo.

I have always maintained that a very good OL you can be a competitive team in today's NFL even with average coaching and QB play. Competitive being 8-8 plus or +/-1.
RE: It seems like a good idea to me  
Snacks : 11/25/2020 2:11 pm : link
In comment 15056667 rasbutant said:
Quote:
And yes the line need to be instep with each other, but with the NFL the way it is with injuries you need to have everyone ready to play. Would i do 50/50 playing time, NO. But to work in one new guy on a series here and there, why not. But also think about this..If you have say one guard that is better vs. the pass and one that is better vs. the run. Why not rotate them in based on the flow of the game?

These guys rotate in practice, it's not like the fact they lined up next to someone else for a few snaps that they forgot how to work with the other guy. Also, from a coaches perspective I want everyone in the "room" to be instep with everyone in the room not just the starting 5.


you run the risk of tipping your hand re: play pass blockers when going to pass and run blockers when going to run.
Paul Brown rotated guards  
WillieYoung : 11/25/2020 2:14 pm : link
throughout the Jim Brown era. That seemed to work OK.
i like the rotation  
ryanmkeane : 11/25/2020 2:19 pm : link
keeps everyone on their toes and you can get a true sense of how they stack up in actual games vs practice.

There is little chance of this happening, but let's say Peart was looking way better at LT than Thomas (he's not)...we would go into 2021 with a clear picture of that position, vs having zero game film of Peart at LT.

Keep the rotations going unless someone is in an absolute groove.
It sort of makes sense ...  
short lease : 11/25/2020 2:30 pm : link
they rotate DL ... why not OL?


although, I do believe that the DL might tire earlier than an OL. The OL knows what they are doing and where they are going. The DL has to read and react to what is going on in front of them - I would assume this takes more physical effort.

That being said (as someone said above) - you would have to be careful about revealing your play depending on the personnel. If 1 guy is good at run blocking but not so good at pass protection - the Defense is probably thinking "run play". etc ....

But, if everyone is a well rounded OL ... rotating seems like a good idea ... or at least not a horrible one (IDK).
Paul Brown Rotating Guards  
Samiam : 11/25/2020 6:16 pm : link
Paul Brown used rotating guards to send in the plays. They didn’t have the electronics around today. Not sure why they didn’t use hand signals though. All the plays came in from the coach and the guards were how they came in.
There's a trade off  
Chocco : 11/25/2020 6:30 pm : link
Your line may not be as instep if you are always rotating them. The flip side if a lineman goes down it is not such and adjustment and as a coach you have a better idea what your dealing with.
RE: RE: It seems like a good idea to me  
rasbutant : 11/26/2020 6:34 am : link
In comment 15056692 Snacks said:
Quote:
In comment 15056667 rasbutant said:


Quote:


And yes the line need to be instep with each other, but with the NFL the way it is with injuries you need to have everyone ready to play. Would i do 50/50 playing time, NO. But to work in one new guy on a series here and there, why not. But also think about this..If you have say one guard that is better vs. the pass and one that is better vs. the run. Why not rotate them in based on the flow of the game?

These guys rotate in practice, it's not like the fact they lined up next to someone else for a few snaps that they forgot how to work with the other guy. Also, from a coaches perspective I want everyone in the "room" to be instep with everyone in the room not just the starting 5.



you run the risk of tipping your hand re: play pass blockers when going to pass and run blockers when going to run.


No. Not what I was saying.

They could still run or pass on any play. I’m talking about game flow. Sometimes you are playing from behind so you are obviously going to pass more. 2 min drill. Going to pass more. Trying to run out the clock you are going to run more. Game plan shows team is weak against the run. You are going to run more.

It gives it away as much as bring in your 3rd down back gives away what you are doing. Actually probably less.
I think Joey’s read on the rotation is right.  
Big Blue Blogger : 11/26/2020 8:27 am : link
Ideally, the 2021 line will include some configuration of Thomas, Hernandez, Gates, Lemieux, and Peart - possibly supplemented with off-season acquisitions.

The team has Solder and Zeitler under contract for about $22MM in 2021 salary, with dead money overhang of about $15.5MM - about 85% of it on Solder, who is almost certainly done here. Decisions need to be made. A full assessment of Thomas, Gates, Peart, and Lemieux will underpin those decisions, and game tape is the best basis for that assessment.

If the Giants were not in unlikely contention for a division title, it would be easier for a 3-7 team to bite the bullet and go with youth. But Zeitler remains a solid pro, and Fleming is at least a known (if mediocre) quantity. So, while there are obvious disadvantages to a rotation, it may strike the best balance between win-now and looking ahead to next year.
Playing your 5 best on the OL as much as possible  
LBH15 : 11/26/2020 9:33 am : link
is the optimum choice.

The rotation thing seemingly is suitable for the 2020 year because of a number of reasons including, but not limited to:
- No preseason and less chance to evaluate all players
- Healthy mix of rookies and veterans on OL
- Olineman with ability to play multiple spots
- Desire to find best OL combo, not just best players
- Risk of Covid where a player must be replaced asap
- And last, but not least, a young team in rebuild where downside is minimal (putting aside the chance to win a poor NFCE).

I would imagine rotation will continue in short term and then Giants will try to settle into same 5-man line in 2021.
This article is as much about a coaching philosophy as it is about  
Ivan15 : 11/26/2020 10:00 am : link
OL rotation.

Coach is using the first 4-5 games of the season to find out what kind of team he has and what players can do well.

Does this sound familiar?
When the rotation group sends out, from L to R,  
BelieveJJ : 11/26/2020 10:01 am : link
Thomas, Hernandez, Gates, Lemieux and Peart as the "starting" 5, that's hardly what anyone would call "a healthy mix of vets and rooks."

At least I wouldn't.
OL unit as a whole has healthy mix  
LBH15 : 11/26/2020 10:07 am : link
.
Makes sense to try  
Bill2 : 11/26/2020 4:55 pm : link
If you are going to play up tempo for longer stretches of the game.

More plays on offense should lead to a virtuous cycle for defense resting while offense gets stronger relative to the opponents defense as up tempo takes its toll in the second half.

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