Just re watched the eagles game and focused on OL. He has to be the biggest surprise this year, right? C was a HUGE concern going into this season and he has more than held his own. I don't know how many people saw this coming but I sure didn't.
Put him somewhere and he will figure it out and at least give you serviceable performance. Hopefully he continues to grow in the position and stays healthy. Tough, smart the someone who can be part of a very good OL. Really nice find by that coach from Nebraska on Shurmurs staff.
I figured at some point this summer they were going to deal
Thomas (22)
Hernandez (26)
Gates (26)
Lemieux (24)
Peart (24)
Those are the ages next year. All of these guys are going to be established players with a full season working together under their belts. If all goes well, this could be one of the best OLines in the NFL next year.
from BBI given the insufferability of the place at times. It was hastened this year by definitive comments made here even though we had new coaches, players, no pre-season ( all teams went through that, but many had their staffs in place) to speak of and no games to prepare for the season. Effectively, our regular season began after the first 4 games..
After 1 or 2 games, the brutality towards Gates, knowing full well this was an alien position for him, was just egregious..it was also that way for other players and even coaches. At that point, I realized I had to get the fuck out of here, wait for the season to TAKE HOLD and then see what we had..
I had no idea how Gates would do, but I did know, that in time we’d get a sense, perhaps a strong one, whether or not he was or had a chance to be the goods.
He took a lot of heat, me included. The OL instantly improved when Lemieux stepped in at LG. Problem is - it sounds like that was also when Judge took a more hands-on approach.
Looking forward to seeing what the starting OL is, coming out of the bye!
from BBI given the insufferability of the place at times. It was hastened this year by definitive comments made here even though we had new coaches, players, no pre-season ( all teams went through that, but many had their staffs in place) to speak of and no games to prepare for the season. Effectively, our regular season began after the first 4 games..
After 1 or 2 games, the brutality towards Gates, knowing full well this was an alien position for him, was just egregious..it was also that way for other players and even coaches. At that point, I realized I had to get the fuck out of here, wait for the season to TAKE HOLD and then see what we had..
I had no idea how Gates would do, but I did know, that in time we’d get a sense, perhaps a strong one, whether or not he was or had a chance to be the goods.
That exposed who truly understands football and those who don’t. Gates and Andrew Thomas did not have any offseason practice time coming into training camp that players usually have. Gates had never played center in a game before this season and some wrote him off after he struggled week one versus a very tough, and 10-0, experienced, and talented Steelers defense. They also ignored his improved performance the next game against another tough defense in Chicago.
Gettleman deserves criticism for many of his decisions but the guy knows how to build an offensive line. Jerry Reese did not find a single starting caliber offensive lineman among day 3 picks or UDFA’s. Gettleman has already brought in two.
So he knew how to build an Offensive Line
LBH15 : 9:38 am : link : reply
in 2018 and 2019 or did he just forget in those years?
Solid 8 years Giants had a horrible OL. In three years you can count what could be 6 players who could start and a 7th player that could endup being a quality backup. It was not just the starters on the Giants OL their backups for backups were terrible. To get that much of a overhaul in three years DG did a good job. You can easy up on the hating now
in 2018 and 2019 or did he just forget in those years?
You’re right he should have had it fixed immediately when he arrived. All he needed to do was bring in a LT, LG, C, RG, and RT with little cap room. Let’s not forget that the Giants had an aging franchise QB in place with no successor on the roster plus holes at DE, CB, S, CB, WR, ILB, and OLB. As we all know it’s so easy to build an entire OL in just 1-2 years while also finding a new franchise QB.
It took the Colts about 5 years to build their OL while investing three 1st round picks and a 2nd on the OL. Dallas didn’t build their OL in a year. It took several seasons while also using multiple high picks.
The Solder signing was a terrible decision but the Giants were desperate after losing out on Norwell(another Gettleman UDFA find)in FA.
Guys - I am not suggesting he needed to go build the
great wall of china immediately. But he was basically hired because his predecessor failed at this singular topic and was fired. And DG made it one of his top goals touting it from the mountain top on day 1. yet he failed miserably at it for two years resulting in a change at QB, OC and Head Coach.
Finally, in desperation, he sees the writing on the wall and invests heavily in the OL in the 2020 draft and hopefully the Giants are seeing some of that investment take hold.
So my remark is completely valid, especially when it was made just in response to a poster touting "this guy knows how to build an offensive line". Happy the Oline is moving forward but let's be real as to the actual steps taken to get there.
in 2018 and 2019 or did he just forget in those years?
You’re right he should have had it fixed immediately when he arrived. All he needed to do was bring in a LT, LG, C, RG, and RT with little cap room. Let’s not forget that the Giants had an aging franchise QB in place with no successor on the roster plus holes at DE, CB, S, CB, WR, ILB, and OLB. As we all know it’s so easy to build an entire OL in just 1-2 years while also finding a new franchise QB.
And not for nothing, I agree with situation and your shopping list above Jay.
Exactly why you actually don't pick a shiny new running back with the overall #2 pick as a strategy.
RE: Aaron Donald treats ALL offensive centers like. ..
Center position now set with Gates.
Second biggest surprise for me is how well Peppers is playing the last month. Give props to Coach Graham for figuring out how to maximize Peppers talents.
RE: Guys - I am not suggesting he needed to go build the
great wall of china immediately. But he was basically hired because his predecessor failed at this singular topic and was fired. And DG made it one of his top goals touting it from the mountain top on day 1. yet he failed miserably at it for two years resulting in a change at QB, OC and Head Coach.
Finally, in desperation, he sees the writing on the wall and invests heavily in the OL in the 2020 draft and hopefully the Giants are seeing some of that investment take hold.
So my remark is completely valid, especially when it was made just in response to a poster touting "this guy knows how to build an offensive line". Happy the Oline is moving forward but let's be real as to the actual steps taken to get there.
You are seeing too imply he did nothing for three years. He signed the best OT on the market in year one. His play feel off a cliff since. He drafted his LG year one in round 2. He signed a couple of UDFA year one too. Both got hurt. One started at center year two. Got hurt in the last game and wasn't brought back. Another one played some at RT and guard in year two and is the topic of this thread.
In year two hw traded a guy that was about to be cut for a RG that is probably the best player on this line.
This year value matched draft position and he added two tackles and a guard that have looked the part.
It's obvious that you hate DG and want him gone. I think you are going to be disappointed when he is here to finish the job.
because the guys you brought in got worse, were bad anyway or got injured doesn't give you a pass. This is the singular most important part of rebuilding this team.
And I don't like DG because he makes too many bad decisions with the roster. Not that he doesn't have some good ones, just far too many bad ones.
because the guys you brought in got worse, were bad anyway or got injured doesn't give you a pass. This is the singular most important part of rebuilding this team.
And I don't like DG because he makes too many bad decisions with the roster. Not that he doesn't have some good ones, just far too many bad ones.
Are you saying that solder wasn't a good player before coming here? If we will have to agree to disagree. You can't blame injuries on the gm. My point is in year one he brought in our starting LG and center. Year two he brought in our starting RG.
He never forgot how to build an OL. It just took him a couple years. Like it does for most teams.
Oh and in those three years years he has also built a very good DL, found some guys that could play LB, and bike 3/4 of a solid secondary. He might of found us a franchise QB too.
Now every decision he has made has not been the correct one. But overall this team is headed in the right direction and DG deserves credit for it.
was made that you can "criticize DG for certain things but the guy knows how to build an offensive line". As if he is so good at it that it is worth denoting.
And imv he is not very good at it. And the facts of the last several years support that.
is over the top by some. Has he upgraded the OL, yes. Did some of trades he made look bad, yes they did. Has most of those trades turned-out to be right, yes they have. So while at the time he took a lot of heat. Time has shown he was right. Over all DG has drafted well and made some good trades. Some fans need to take another look and realize some of his moves just took a little time to show the Giants are moving in the right direction
RE: You are expanding this when not needed. The comment
was made that you can "criticize DG for certain things but the guy knows how to build an offensive line". As if he is so good at it that it is worth denoting.
And imv he is not very good at it. And the facts of the last several years support that.
Yes because it's easy to change an entire oline in one season. He sucks because he didn't rebuild the line in one offseason. Got ya.
get Gates to C let alone preps him to excel at it?
I don’t. And it’s why I don’t look at DGs roster moves from previous seasons as complete fails. Coaching matters, we keep seeing why.
+1 ... I originally thought that having Pat Shurmur as the HC, being a former offensive center would help him at least see talent at the position, and know how to pick a good OL coach. Man was I wrong.
we are seeing what good coaching is doing. And outside of Thomas, the talent on the line is really no different. It’s reasonable to assume that if we had a quality coaching staff earlier (something that’s his fault), that some of his personnel moves would have worked better.
we are seeing what good coaching is doing. And outside of Thomas, the talent on the line is really no different. It’s reasonable to assume that if we had a quality coaching staff earlier (something that’s his fault), that some of his personnel moves would have worked better.
Wasn't referring to you. You're only stubborn on other threads :-)
Giants OL has more talent than it has had in many years. Haters will never allow themselves to see that. Just like they refuse to now see trades that DG made have worked-out in the Giants favor. This team still has needs nobody is saying it doesn't. Does DG have this team going in the right direction, yes he does
A positive thread about the improvement of nick gates who’s a very likeable young key cog in this offense turns into another trash Gettleman thread. I don’t love the guy either but hey the OL is finally getting some life and that doesn’t happen if he didn’t emphasize that in the draft.
dead wrong about the talent on this OL. Not saying this OL has even a single Pro Bowler on it. When you compare who they did have this OL is a good upgrade. An I'm not just talking about the starters. This OL has 7 players who belong in the NFL. Its been a long time since any Giants fan could say that about the OL
dead wrong about the talent on this OL. Not saying this OL has even a single Pro Bowler on it. When you compare who they did have this OL is a good upgrade. An I'm not just talking about the starters. This OL has 7 players who belong in the NFL. Its been a long time since any Giants fan could say that about the OL
dead wrong about the talent on this OL. Not saying this OL has even a single Pro Bowler on it. When you compare who they did have this OL is a good upgrade. An I'm not just talking about the starters. This OL has 7 players who belong in the NFL. Its been a long time since any Giants fan could say that about the OL
OL talent is better. It almost had to get better based on what the front office has been putting out there the last several years, Good to see some hope.
RE: You are expanding this when not needed. The comment
was made that you can "criticize DG for certain things but the guy knows how to build an offensive line". As if he is so good at it that it is worth denoting.
And imv he is not very good at it. And the facts of the last several years support that.
Want facts? During his short tenure in Carolina Gettleman signed former all-pro LG Andrew Norwell as an UDFA, former all-pro RT Daryl Williams in round 4, former all-pro RG Trai Turner in round 3, and RT Mike Remmers UDFA off the Rams PS.
RE: RE: You are expanding this when not needed. The comment
was made that you can "criticize DG for certain things but the guy knows how to build an offensive line". As if he is so good at it that it is worth denoting.
And imv he is not very good at it. And the facts of the last several years support that.
Want facts? During his short tenure in Carolina Gettleman signed former all-pro LG Andrew Norwell as an UDFA, former all-pro RT Daryl Williams in round 4, former all-pro RG Trai Turner in round 3, and RT Mike Remmers UDFA off the Rams PS.
Ok, he’s great at building Olines. 2018 and 2019 were outliers. You were right and I was wrong.
He had a giant whiff. Nate Solder. It was such a bad whiff
that it essentially set our offensive line back two years. Him and Pio. He broke his leg and tore his Achilles so not sure how much you can put on him there. Plus he had that clown coaching the OL.
But who saw that coming? The Pats certainly didn’t. They offered him a lotta money too. His play didn’t even justify a vet minimum contract. That bad. And who knows, maybe he plays well under DS opposed to the worst offensive line coach in league. The one thing I blame DG for is I believe he had a massive voice in our first coaching hire and the crap coaches he brought with him He vouched for Shurmur because he was always going to be the Alpha here. That he deserves flack for. He does know what could offensive line talent looks like. He’ll I think he knows what good talent looks like at most positions outside of WR, but he did hit on Slayton round 5 for us
is over the top by some. Has he upgraded the OL, yes. Did some of trades he made look bad, yes they did. Has most of those trades turned-out to be right, yes they have. So while at the time he took a lot of heat. Time has shown he was right. Over all DG has drafted well and made some good trades. Some fans need to take another look and realize some of his moves just took a little time to show the Giants are moving in the right direction
I feel like his personnel decisions now look good because we have a better coaching staff.
There could be some truth to that. But who are the players
includes me ... I’m a fan and I choose to only see the positive. A lot of you put the Giants under a microscope and find shit wrong in nearly everything the team does. Fine, if that floats your boat ... but don’t criticize others if they only want to see the good ... It’s ok to choose to not be a miserable dolt.
RE: He had a giant whiff. Nate Solder. It was such a bad whiff
that it essentially set our offensive line back two years. Him and Pio. He broke his leg and tore his Achilles so not sure how much you can put on him there. Plus he had that clown coaching the OL.
But who saw that coming? The Pats certainly didn’t. They offered him a lotta money too. His play didn’t even justify a vet minimum contract. That bad. And who knows, maybe he plays well under DS opposed to the worst offensive line coach in league. The one thing I blame DG for is I believe he had a massive voice in our first coaching hire and the crap coaches he brought with him He vouched for Shurmur because he was always going to be the Alpha here. That he deserves flack for. He does know what could offensive line talent looks like. He’ll I think he knows what good talent looks like at most positions outside of WR, but he did hit on Slayton round 5 for us
It's been well documented on this board that ownership his the HC and the HC hired the staff. Don't know how Shummer gets blamed on DG.
RE: There are very few on this board who are actually objective, and that
includes me ... I’m a fan and I choose to only see the positive. A lot of you put the Giants under a microscope and find shit wrong in nearly everything the team does. Fine, if that floats your boat ... but don’t criticize others if they only want to see the good ... It’s ok to choose to not be a miserable dolt.
It sure doesn't sound fine if you have to call them names.
RE: RE: He had a giant whiff. Nate Solder. It was such a bad whiff
that it essentially set our offensive line back two years. Him and Pio. He broke his leg and tore his Achilles so not sure how much you can put on him there. Plus he had that clown coaching the OL.
But who saw that coming? The Pats certainly didn’t. They offered him a lotta money too. His play didn’t even justify a vet minimum contract. That bad. And who knows, maybe he plays well under DS opposed to the worst offensive line coach in league. The one thing I blame DG for is I believe he had a massive voice in our first coaching hire and the crap coaches he brought with him He vouched for Shurmur because he was always going to be the Alpha here. That he deserves flack for. He does know what could offensive line talent looks like. He’ll I think he knows what good talent looks like at most positions outside of WR, but he did hit on Slayton round 5 for us
It's been well documented on this board that ownership his the HC and the HC hired the staff. Don't know how Shummer gets blamed on DG.
Presuming the GM is going to weigh in with the owners on all Head Coaching hires. Doesn't mean this board is going to know all the facts as to the level of his support or if he preferred another candidate, or whatever.
Feels like for the NYG, the Head Coach is hired by the owners. And the GM will undoubtedly support that hire with public statements after the fact.
OL- Let's assume it's in fact on the right track and this time next year will be a little bit better thx to another year of development. Slightly better would mean this OL is good, and young.
So we have a nice young OL.
DL- is even better and we won't lose Williams AND Tomlinson so we will be fine there assuming one is brought back--safe assumption.
DB - Our most talented safety is not even on the field yet, even without McKinnney we have the makings as is of a good secondary, with one glaring hole at #2 CB. Still, this is another area of the team that is fine shape.
LB - we are fine in the middle. Carter would have been an answer but with the injury he's a question mark. At least he's a body. Not in love with Fackrel but he seems to be an average dependable and versatile option. We need talent here even if we want to be kind to the LB unit, but it's not barren at all.
WR - we have Slayton who's a nice young piece and Shepard is a nice vet piece in the inside, but like LB we need a stud here or at least someone who can adequately fill the outside WR role. He doesn't have to be Terrel Owens 2004 but he needs to be a good starter. WR is a need like LB (edge)
TE is the enigma but I don't think Engram is necessarily a dead man walking here. It's not a position that gives us the warm and fuzzies but it might not be a position in dire need of talent, save for a good two way blocking type. We shouldn't lose sleep over TE right now but it needs a little help.
It's not barren here at all. If Jones played solid football in 2-3 games we would be talking a lot of shit to the people that bet their lives on this team going 2-14 this year. As is we already look better than most prognosticators penciled the Giants in for this year. And they could win 7 games this season which would make a lot of experts have to eat their words.
How could a team be SO bad and so devoid of talent yet compete week in week out and now appear to be on the rise after finding their sea legs?
Spin it any way you want, this team is playing better ball than the so called realists predicted and the talent level is the reason why. I just hope they keep it up and last week's win was something real. I can't imagine it was fools gold because the Giants have been in every game save for 1-2.
that it essentially set our offensive line back two years. Him and Pio. He broke his leg and tore his Achilles so not sure how much you can put on him there. Plus he had that clown coaching the OL.
But who saw that coming? The Pats certainly didn’t. They offered him a lotta money too. His play didn’t even justify a vet minimum contract. That bad. And who knows, maybe he plays well under DS opposed to the worst offensive line coach in league. The one thing I blame DG for is I believe he had a massive voice in our first coaching hire and the crap coaches he brought with him He vouched for Shurmur because he was always going to be the Alpha here. That he deserves flack for. He does know what could offensive line talent looks like. He’ll I think he knows what good talent looks like at most positions outside of WR, but he did hit on Slayton round 5 for us
It's been well documented on this board that ownership his the HC and the HC hired the staff. Don't know how Shummer gets blamed on DG.
Is it well documented? There's really only insinuation and speculations. Obviously the final responsibility is with the owner, like all football teams, but the GM is a massive voice in his ear. How much power that voice has wanes and fluctuates. This is just how organizations operate, both inside and outside of football. Occasionally you get an owner like Jerruh who the only voice he listens to for head coach is his, but I don't think that's the norm. Personally, I believe he had a pretty big voice here, as they brought him in to clean up this mess. I'd imagine his voice was a lot smaller this time around. I'd imagine the Judge hire was mostly all ownership this time around. There's really no way to prove it, but that is what makes the most sense to me. Is there anything about Shurmur that didn't scream that DG didn't really support the guy. I'd imagine DG figured this was a guy he could easily control, that seemed like he was competent. The other options weren't great either. Personally, I wanted Patricia, but didn't think it was ever going to happened because of DG.
I sure got that one wrong.
Hernandez (26)
Gates (26)
Lemieux (24)
Peart (24)
Those are the ages next year. All of these guys are going to be established players with a full season working together under their belts. If all goes well, this could be one of the best OLines in the NFL next year.
After 1 or 2 games, the brutality towards Gates, knowing full well this was an alien position for him, was just egregious..it was also that way for other players and even coaches. At that point, I realized I had to get the fuck out of here, wait for the season to TAKE HOLD and then see what we had..
I had no idea how Gates would do, but I did know, that in time we’d get a sense, perhaps a strong one, whether or not he was or had a chance to be the goods.
I’m thrilled with the guy..
Be safe for Thanksgiving..
Looking forward to seeing what the starting OL is, coming out of the bye!
After 1 or 2 games, the brutality towards Gates, knowing full well this was an alien position for him, was just egregious..it was also that way for other players and even coaches. At that point, I realized I had to get the fuck out of here, wait for the season to TAKE HOLD and then see what we had..
I had no idea how Gates would do, but I did know, that in time we’d get a sense, perhaps a strong one, whether or not he was or had a chance to be the goods.
That exposed who truly understands football and those who don’t. Gates and Andrew Thomas did not have any offseason practice time coming into training camp that players usually have. Gates had never played center in a game before this season and some wrote him off after he struggled week one versus a very tough, and 10-0, experienced, and talented Steelers defense. They also ignored his improved performance the next game against another tough defense in Chicago.
Gettleman deserves criticism for many of his decisions but the guy knows how to build an offensive line. Jerry Reese did not find a single starting caliber offensive lineman among day 3 picks or UDFA’s. Gettleman has already brought in two.
It takes time. He did sign gates in year one. To bad he got hurt. He also drafted hernandez that year. Zietler trade was year two.
LBH15 : 9:38 am : link : reply
in 2018 and 2019 or did he just forget in those years?
Solid 8 years Giants had a horrible OL. In three years you can count what could be 6 players who could start and a 7th player that could endup being a quality backup. It was not just the starters on the Giants OL their backups for backups were terrible. To get that much of a overhaul in three years DG did a good job. You can easy up on the hating now
You’re right he should have had it fixed immediately when he arrived. All he needed to do was bring in a LT, LG, C, RG, and RT with little cap room. Let’s not forget that the Giants had an aging franchise QB in place with no successor on the roster plus holes at DE, CB, S, CB, WR, ILB, and OLB. As we all know it’s so easy to build an entire OL in just 1-2 years while also finding a new franchise QB.
It took the Colts about 5 years to build their OL while investing three 1st round picks and a 2nd on the OL. Dallas didn’t build their OL in a year. It took several seasons while also using multiple high picks.
The Solder signing was a terrible decision but the Giants were desperate after losing out on Norwell(another Gettleman UDFA find)in FA.
Finally, in desperation, he sees the writing on the wall and invests heavily in the OL in the 2020 draft and hopefully the Giants are seeing some of that investment take hold.
So my remark is completely valid, especially when it was made just in response to a poster touting "this guy knows how to build an offensive line". Happy the Oline is moving forward but let's be real as to the actual steps taken to get there.
Quote:
in 2018 and 2019 or did he just forget in those years?
You’re right he should have had it fixed immediately when he arrived. All he needed to do was bring in a LT, LG, C, RG, and RT with little cap room. Let’s not forget that the Giants had an aging franchise QB in place with no successor on the roster plus holes at DE, CB, S, CB, WR, ILB, and OLB. As we all know it’s so easy to build an entire OL in just 1-2 years while also finding a new franchise QB.
And not for nothing, I agree with situation and your shopping list above Jay.
Exactly why you actually don't pick a shiny new running back with the overall #2 pick as a strategy.
Meat grinders treat chuck roast. When Gates stood up to him, I was a lot more than surprised - delighted is the word.
I think that was a real turning point. Was so happy to see that.
Second biggest surprise for me is how well Peppers is playing the last month. Give props to Coach Graham for figuring out how to maximize Peppers talents.
Finally, in desperation, he sees the writing on the wall and invests heavily in the OL in the 2020 draft and hopefully the Giants are seeing some of that investment take hold.
So my remark is completely valid, especially when it was made just in response to a poster touting "this guy knows how to build an offensive line". Happy the Oline is moving forward but let's be real as to the actual steps taken to get there.
You are seeing too imply he did nothing for three years. He signed the best OT on the market in year one. His play feel off a cliff since. He drafted his LG year one in round 2. He signed a couple of UDFA year one too. Both got hurt. One started at center year two. Got hurt in the last game and wasn't brought back. Another one played some at RT and guard in year two and is the topic of this thread.
In year two hw traded a guy that was about to be cut for a RG that is probably the best player on this line.
This year value matched draft position and he added two tackles and a guard that have looked the part.
It's obvious that you hate DG and want him gone. I think you are going to be disappointed when he is here to finish the job.
And I don't like DG because he makes too many bad decisions with the roster. Not that he doesn't have some good ones, just far too many bad ones.
And I don't like DG because he makes too many bad decisions with the roster. Not that he doesn't have some good ones, just far too many bad ones.
Are you saying that solder wasn't a good player before coming here? If we will have to agree to disagree. You can't blame injuries on the gm. My point is in year one he brought in our starting LG and center. Year two he brought in our starting RG.
He never forgot how to build an OL. It just took him a couple years. Like it does for most teams.
Oh and in those three years years he has also built a very good DL, found some guys that could play LB, and bike 3/4 of a solid secondary. He might of found us a franchise QB too.
Now every decision he has made has not been the correct one. But overall this team is headed in the right direction and DG deserves credit for it.
I don’t. And it’s why I don’t look at DGs roster moves from previous seasons as complete fails. Coaching matters, we keep seeing why.
And imv he is not very good at it. And the facts of the last several years support that.
And imv he is not very good at it. And the facts of the last several years support that.
Yes because it's easy to change an entire oline in one season. He sucks because he didn't rebuild the line in one offseason. Got ya.
I don’t. And it’s why I don’t look at DGs roster moves from previous seasons as complete fails. Coaching matters, we keep seeing why.
+1 ... I originally thought that having Pat Shurmur as the HC, being a former offensive center would help him at least see talent at the position, and know how to pick a good OL coach. Man was I wrong.
It's not something that anybody should be saying our GM has been good at.
Nothing happens immediately on day 1. No the narrative has changed from DG hasn't built an OL, to DG took too long (as if 2 years is too long).
Wasn't referring to you. You're only stubborn on other threads :-)
Nothing happens immediately on day 1. No the narrative has changed from DG hasn't built an OL, to DG took too long (as if 2 years is too long).
I think some of you fell asleep for a few years.
But I applaud your patience. :-)
Or don’t...whatever.
Umm...wrong at what?
You just like calling people haters. Probably a blast at parties.
OL talent is better. It almost had to get better based on what the front office has been putting out there the last several years, Good to see some hope.
And imv he is not very good at it. And the facts of the last several years support that.
Want facts? During his short tenure in Carolina Gettleman signed former all-pro LG Andrew Norwell as an UDFA, former all-pro RT Daryl Williams in round 4, former all-pro RG Trai Turner in round 3, and RT Mike Remmers UDFA off the Rams PS.
Quote:
was made that you can "criticize DG for certain things but the guy knows how to build an offensive line". As if he is so good at it that it is worth denoting.
And imv he is not very good at it. And the facts of the last several years support that.
Want facts? During his short tenure in Carolina Gettleman signed former all-pro LG Andrew Norwell as an UDFA, former all-pro RT Daryl Williams in round 4, former all-pro RG Trai Turner in round 3, and RT Mike Remmers UDFA off the Rams PS.
Ok, he’s great at building Olines. 2018 and 2019 were outliers. You were right and I was wrong.
But who saw that coming? The Pats certainly didn’t. They offered him a lotta money too. His play didn’t even justify a vet minimum contract. That bad. And who knows, maybe he plays well under DS opposed to the worst offensive line coach in league. The one thing I blame DG for is I believe he had a massive voice in our first coaching hire and the crap coaches he brought with him He vouched for Shurmur because he was always going to be the Alpha here. That he deserves flack for. He does know what could offensive line talent looks like. He’ll I think he knows what good talent looks like at most positions outside of WR, but he did hit on Slayton round 5 for us
I feel like his personnel decisions now look good because we have a better coaching staff.
On Offense, I can't really think of anybody other than maybe Gallman. But did he really get many chances?
On Defense, Peppers and maybe Tomlinson. Maybe.
Specials, Gano is for certain better than Rosas but are different players.
It's not that clear-cut. It is fair to say the players as a team looked better coached over a 3 hour game under Judge and his assistants.
But who saw that coming? The Pats certainly didn’t. They offered him a lotta money too. His play didn’t even justify a vet minimum contract. That bad. And who knows, maybe he plays well under DS opposed to the worst offensive line coach in league. The one thing I blame DG for is I believe he had a massive voice in our first coaching hire and the crap coaches he brought with him He vouched for Shurmur because he was always going to be the Alpha here. That he deserves flack for. He does know what could offensive line talent looks like. He’ll I think he knows what good talent looks like at most positions outside of WR, but he did hit on Slayton round 5 for us
It's been well documented on this board that ownership his the HC and the HC hired the staff. Don't know how Shummer gets blamed on DG.
It sure doesn't sound fine if you have to call them names.
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that it essentially set our offensive line back two years. Him and Pio. He broke his leg and tore his Achilles so not sure how much you can put on him there. Plus he had that clown coaching the OL.
But who saw that coming? The Pats certainly didn’t. They offered him a lotta money too. His play didn’t even justify a vet minimum contract. That bad. And who knows, maybe he plays well under DS opposed to the worst offensive line coach in league. The one thing I blame DG for is I believe he had a massive voice in our first coaching hire and the crap coaches he brought with him He vouched for Shurmur because he was always going to be the Alpha here. That he deserves flack for. He does know what could offensive line talent looks like. He’ll I think he knows what good talent looks like at most positions outside of WR, but he did hit on Slayton round 5 for us
It's been well documented on this board that ownership his the HC and the HC hired the staff. Don't know how Shummer gets blamed on DG.
Presuming the GM is going to weigh in with the owners on all Head Coaching hires. Doesn't mean this board is going to know all the facts as to the level of his support or if he preferred another candidate, or whatever.
Feels like for the NYG, the Head Coach is hired by the owners. And the GM will undoubtedly support that hire with public statements after the fact.
OL- Let's assume it's in fact on the right track and this time next year will be a little bit better thx to another year of development. Slightly better would mean this OL is good, and young.
So we have a nice young OL.
DL- is even better and we won't lose Williams AND Tomlinson so we will be fine there assuming one is brought back--safe assumption.
DB - Our most talented safety is not even on the field yet, even without McKinnney we have the makings as is of a good secondary, with one glaring hole at #2 CB. Still, this is another area of the team that is fine shape.
LB - we are fine in the middle. Carter would have been an answer but with the injury he's a question mark. At least he's a body. Not in love with Fackrel but he seems to be an average dependable and versatile option. We need talent here even if we want to be kind to the LB unit, but it's not barren at all.
WR - we have Slayton who's a nice young piece and Shepard is a nice vet piece in the inside, but like LB we need a stud here or at least someone who can adequately fill the outside WR role. He doesn't have to be Terrel Owens 2004 but he needs to be a good starter. WR is a need like LB (edge)
TE is the enigma but I don't think Engram is necessarily a dead man walking here. It's not a position that gives us the warm and fuzzies but it might not be a position in dire need of talent, save for a good two way blocking type. We shouldn't lose sleep over TE right now but it needs a little help.
It's not barren here at all. If Jones played solid football in 2-3 games we would be talking a lot of shit to the people that bet their lives on this team going 2-14 this year. As is we already look better than most prognosticators penciled the Giants in for this year. And they could win 7 games this season which would make a lot of experts have to eat their words.
How could a team be SO bad and so devoid of talent yet compete week in week out and now appear to be on the rise after finding their sea legs?
Spin it any way you want, this team is playing better ball than the so called realists predicted and the talent level is the reason why. I just hope they keep it up and last week's win was something real. I can't imagine it was fools gold because the Giants have been in every game save for 1-2.
Get more talent (or the right people to find it) and maybe a winning record could be in the cards next season.
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that it essentially set our offensive line back two years. Him and Pio. He broke his leg and tore his Achilles so not sure how much you can put on him there. Plus he had that clown coaching the OL.
But who saw that coming? The Pats certainly didn’t. They offered him a lotta money too. His play didn’t even justify a vet minimum contract. That bad. And who knows, maybe he plays well under DS opposed to the worst offensive line coach in league. The one thing I blame DG for is I believe he had a massive voice in our first coaching hire and the crap coaches he brought with him He vouched for Shurmur because he was always going to be the Alpha here. That he deserves flack for. He does know what could offensive line talent looks like. He’ll I think he knows what good talent looks like at most positions outside of WR, but he did hit on Slayton round 5 for us
It's been well documented on this board that ownership his the HC and the HC hired the staff. Don't know how Shummer gets blamed on DG.
Is it well documented? There's really only insinuation and speculations. Obviously the final responsibility is with the owner, like all football teams, but the GM is a massive voice in his ear. How much power that voice has wanes and fluctuates. This is just how organizations operate, both inside and outside of football. Occasionally you get an owner like Jerruh who the only voice he listens to for head coach is his, but I don't think that's the norm. Personally, I believe he had a pretty big voice here, as they brought him in to clean up this mess. I'd imagine his voice was a lot smaller this time around. I'd imagine the Judge hire was mostly all ownership this time around. There's really no way to prove it, but that is what makes the most sense to me. Is there anything about Shurmur that didn't scream that DG didn't really support the guy. I'd imagine DG figured this was a guy he could easily control, that seemed like he was competent. The other options weren't great either. Personally, I wanted Patricia, but didn't think it was ever going to happened because of DG.