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NFT: Knicks complete Sign & Trade for Austin Rivers

No Where Man : 11/27/2020 2:23 pm
The New York Knicks complete a Sign-and-Trade with the Houston Rockets here are the full details:

Knicks get:
-Austin Rivers
-Draft rights to Sergio Llull, Tadija Dragicevic & Alex Hervelle

Rockets get:
-Draft rights to Issuf Sanon
I saw this but can someone breakdown the advantages for each  
robbieballs2003 : 11/27/2020 2:28 pm : link
team in this scenario as opposed to just signing Rivers outright?
I’m completely baffled  
PhilSimms15 : 11/27/2020 2:43 pm : link
Why would the Knicks do this deal? They got three guys who will likely never come to the US. Knicks did not get additional cap space, and they didn’t receive any real assets. I guess these guys could be a throw in a deal but none of them are attractive assets on their own.

Any other guesses as to why they helped the Rockets?
Help Houston.....?  
Carl in CT : 11/27/2020 2:56 pm : link
Only one reason I could think of RW.
It helps the knicks...  
Jarvis : 11/27/2020 2:57 pm : link
Due to some weird CBA loopholes, if the kicks signed him outright they would only be able to do one voidable year. Now they can do 2 voidable years so it’s a 3 year deal and only 1 year is guaranteed.
It gives the Knicks 3 stash guys  
nygiants16 : 11/27/2020 3:03 pm : link
to include salary dumps instead of sending out cash or 2md round picks..

You always have to send something to a team in a trade, this gives them some extra "somethings" that have no value
I'm already getting hooked on the prospect highlight videos.  
bceagle05 : 11/27/2020 3:23 pm : link
Thankfully camp opens Monday, so I can focus on the young Knicks instead.
Will the Knicks win  
M.S. : 11/27/2020 4:02 pm : link

30 games this season?
Knicks preseason schedule - we get games two weeks from today.  
bceagle05 : 11/27/2020 4:34 pm : link
Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN

Knicks preseason schedule:

Dec. 11: @ Detroit
Dec. 13: @ Detroit
Dec. 16: vs. Cleveland
Dec. 18: vs. Cleveland
RE: Will the Knicks win  
bceagle05 : 11/27/2020 4:35 pm : link
In comment 15057778 M.S. said:
Quote:

30 games this season?

Seems nearly impossible in a 72-game season - probably closer to 25. I think Vegas has the over/under at 22.5.
RE: I'm already getting hooked on the prospect highlight videos.  
Anakim : 11/27/2020 5:00 pm : link
In comment 15057759 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Thankfully camp opens Monday, so I can focus on the young Knicks instead.


I am too, but I gotta say, I'm sick of all the Toppin dunks. Sure it shows athleticism and dunks can be exciting, but they're gimme buckets. Nothing challenging or revealing about a guy with a straight lane to the basket and no one defending him.
RE: I’m completely baffled  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/27/2020 5:15 pm : link
In comment 15057744 PhilSimms15 said:
Quote:
Why would the Knicks do this deal? They got three guys who will likely never come to the US. Knicks did not get additional cap space, and they didn’t receive any real assets. I guess these guys could be a throw in a deal but none of them are attractive assets on their own.

Any other guesses as to why they helped the Rockets?


Rights to players are assets. What matters is how other teams view them. If you're not trading picks, cash, or players, player rights are tradeable too.
RE: RE: I’m completely baffled  
robbieballs2003 : 11/27/2020 5:20 pm : link
In comment 15057821 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15057744 PhilSimms15 said:


Quote:


Why would the Knicks do this deal? They got three guys who will likely never come to the US. Knicks did not get additional cap space, and they didn’t receive any real assets. I guess these guys could be a throw in a deal but none of them are attractive assets on their own.

Any other guesses as to why they helped the Rockets?



Rights to players are assets. What matters is how other teams view them. If you're not trading picks, cash, or players, player rights are tradeable too.


Do they count as part of the salary cap? Otherwise, what was the point for Houston?
Marc stein explains it better  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/27/2020 5:26 pm : link
https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1332376670825705473?s=19
RE: RE: RE: I’m completely baffled  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/27/2020 5:27 pm : link
In comment 15057822 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15057821 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 15057744 PhilSimms15 said:


Quote:


Why would the Knicks do this deal? They got three guys who will likely never come to the US. Knicks did not get additional cap space, and they didn’t receive any real assets. I guess these guys could be a throw in a deal but none of them are attractive assets on their own.

Any other guesses as to why they helped the Rockets?



Rights to players are assets. What matters is how other teams view them. If you're not trading picks, cash, or players, player rights are tradeable too.



Do they count as part of the salary cap? Otherwise, what was the point for Houston?


Houston is cash strapped. They get a trade exception.
On Wikipedia, it says Sanon was a strong "Draft and Stash" player  
Anakim : 11/27/2020 5:31 pm : link
He's only 21. Sounds like he has more of a chance to make the NBA than any of the Euro prospects we have.


JB
@JeffreyBellone

With the Austin Rivers sign-and-trade complete, I believe the Knicks currently hold draft rights on these players:

Sergio Llull
Tadija Dragicevic
Alex Hervelle
Mathias Lessort
Ante Tomic
Ognjen Jaramaz
Louis Labeyrie





"Why did the number go so high? One major factor in speaking to people familiar with the process: the New York Knicks. Tom Thibodeau and crew are in desperate need of a talent upgrade to the roster, and a 24-year-old shooting guard who hit 42.6 percent of his 3s with the Wolves last season would certainly qualify as an upgrade.

Sources say the Knicks’ first priority for a wing was to get Gordon Hayward and that they told Beasley if they missed out they were coming after him. The Knicks had the cap space, and it would be conceivable that Thibs wouldn’t have minded stealing away a player the Wolves gave up a first-round pick for at the trade deadline....So rather than wait to see if the Knicks were going to extend an offer, which very well could have come since they did miss out on Hayward, Beasley agreed to terms on the spot.....And whether the Knicks were bluffing or not, there was genuine belief within the Wolves that a bigger offer was coming if they didn’t get out in front of it."
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I'm already getting hooked on the prospect highlight videos.  
bceagle05 : 11/27/2020 5:46 pm : link
In comment 15057811 Anakim said:
Quote:
I am too, but I gotta say, I'm sick of all the Toppin dunks. Sure it shows athleticism and dunks can be exciting, but they're gimme buckets. Nothing challenging or revealing about a guy with a straight lane to the basket and no one defending him.

I actually meant NEXT year's prospects, but yeah I've checked out Toppin and Quickley, too. I was pretty familiar with them by the time the draft came around.
It feels like the Rockets were waiting on Lull for 20 years  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 11/27/2020 5:49 pm : link
Always had hype and I hope he finds a way to the Knicks. Maybe they know he’d come to NY?
Another aspect of the deal  
PhilSimms15 : 11/27/2020 5:57 pm : link
Due to the sign-and-trade and early Bird rights means Rivers can’t be traded until March 3rd at the earliest so he will play at least the full season with the Knicks.

So the Knicks picked up three Euros to add to the two they already have: Sergio Llull
Tadija Dragicevic
Alex Hervelle
Mathias Lessort
Ante Tomic
Ognjen Jaramaz
Louis Labeyrie

For “future deals.” This is clearly an unimportant move (unless for some unknown reason Llull comes over to the NBA at 33 — unlikely)

Been an underwhelming offseason thus far. I also think they need to trade Randle. They did not draft Toppin, who will be 23 in March, to sit on the bench. He was drafted because he is ready to contribute now.
.  
Del Shofner : 11/27/2020 6:01 pm : link
In comment 15057844 PhilSimms15 said:
Quote:
I also think they need to trade Randle. They did not draft Toppin, who will be 23 in March, to sit on the bench. He was drafted because he is ready to contribute now.


Agree - it's hard to see Randle and Toppin on the court at the same time, unless Randle's playing C in a small-ball lineup - and that would not be intimidating interior defense, to put it mildly. Toppin should be the #1 option offensively from the get-go. Hard to see where Randle fits in, but maybe Thibs can make it work somehow.
RE: RE: RE: I'm already getting hooked on the prospect highlight videos.  
Anakim : 11/27/2020 6:47 pm : link
In comment 15057837 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
In comment 15057811 Anakim said:


Quote:


I am too, but I gotta say, I'm sick of all the Toppin dunks. Sure it shows athleticism and dunks can be exciting, but they're gimme buckets. Nothing challenging or revealing about a guy with a straight lane to the basket and no one defending him.


I actually meant NEXT year's prospects, but yeah I've checked out Toppin and Quickley, too. I was pretty familiar with them by the time the draft came around.


Cunningham or Suggs!
Suggs looks like a bigger Damien Lillard.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/27/2020 7:08 pm : link
What a time to be a Zags fan.

BTW, Suggs is Exhibit A for why it’s terrible for high school players to not be able to go into the draft immediately. He’s also Exhibit A for why going to college is better than the G League or some foreign league for a season. He’s already gotten more exposure and hype than a guy like RJ Hampton got the entire time he was overseas.
RE: Will the Knicks win  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/27/2020 7:20 pm : link
In comment 15057778 M.S. said:
Quote:

30 games this season?


No. But the '21 draft is stacked so if we're going to suck, might as well really suck this year.
RE: Suggs looks like a bigger Damien Lillard.  
Anakim : 11/27/2020 7:30 pm : link
In comment 15057872 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
What a time to be a Zags fan.

BTW, Suggs is Exhibit A for why it’s terrible for high school players to not be able to go into the draft immediately. He’s also Exhibit A for why going to college is better than the G League or some foreign league for a season. He’s already gotten more exposure and hype than a guy like RJ Hampton got the entire time he was overseas.


Why is it better than going to the G-League? He'd be playing against grown men in the G-League. Excited to see what Jalen Green and Kuminga can do.
RE: Suggs looks like a bigger Damien Lillard.  
Mike from SI : 11/27/2020 7:33 pm : link
In comment 15057872 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
What a time to be a Zags fan.

BTW, Suggs is Exhibit A for why it’s terrible for high school players to not be able to go into the draft immediately. He’s also Exhibit A for why going to college is better than the G League or some foreign league for a season. He’s already gotten more exposure and hype than a guy like RJ Hampton got the entire time he was overseas.


Exposure to you, American basketball fan, is not the same as exposure to scouts, who get to watch these guys play against professionals in Europe or elsewhere.
RE: RE: Suggs looks like a bigger Damien Lillard.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/27/2020 7:41 pm : link
In comment 15057890 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
In comment 15057872 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


Quote:


What a time to be a Zags fan.

BTW, Suggs is Exhibit A for why it’s terrible for high school players to not be able to go into the draft immediately. He’s also Exhibit A for why going to college is better than the G League or some foreign league for a season. He’s already gotten more exposure and hype than a guy like RJ Hampton got the entire time he was overseas.



Exposure to you, American basketball fan, is not the same as exposure to scouts, who get to watch these guys play against professionals in Europe or elsewhere.


None of these guys who go overseas get to play in leagues like the one Luka played in.
Llull  
TyreeHelmet : 11/27/2020 10:28 pm : link
I know he’s 33 and most likely not coming to play to the NBA to play for an awful Knicks team this year. But this guy is a real player. He would be the Knicks best player. Would love for Leon to give it a shot...
Covid testing starts today  
nygiants16 : 11/28/2020 8:58 am : link
so you would think teams will start finalizing all of their moves to get players in camp on time..

Knicka are either going to make a trade to fill up their cap or sign Payton now and roll the space into the year..

Either way today could be very busy
Per Bobby Marks  
Steve in Greenwich : 11/28/2020 10:10 am : link
“The New York Knicks are signing Michael Kidd-Gilchrist to a one-year contract, a source tells ESPN.

Kidd-Gilchrist gives New York someone who can guard multiple positions. He was one of the better defensive players that was still on the free agent board.”

So looks like more moves are coming
RE: Per Bobby Marks  
Anakim : 11/28/2020 10:22 am : link
In comment 15058006 Steve in Greenwich said:
Quote:
“The New York Knicks are signing Michael Kidd-Gilchrist to a one-year contract, a source tells ESPN.

Kidd-Gilchrist gives New York someone who can guard multiple positions. He was one of the better defensive players that was still on the free agent board.”

So looks like more moves are coming



Steve Popper
@StevePopper
Kidd-Gilchrist, a former No. 2 overall pick, is signing with Knicks as ESPN reported. But hearing it's an Exhibit 10 deal with training camp invite. Knicks have their 2-way deals filled now, but can make moves - waive, trade someone to make room.
Color me absolutely shocked that we didn't sign Willie Cauley-Stein  
Anakim : 11/28/2020 10:24 am : link
I mean if we're going with Kentucky busts, he has to be up there.




Meanwhile, did I miss Greg chiming in on the Rivers acquisition? He absolutely HATES Austin Rivers. Rough day yesterday for him. First the Rivers trade and then Virginia getting upset by San Francisco.
Knicks roster is example A on why...  
Italianju : 11/28/2020 10:25 am : link
its so hard to "just build through the draft".

RJ - 3rd pick
MKG - 3rd pick
Noel - 6th pick
Randle - 7th pick
Frank - 8th pick
Knox - 9th pick
DSJ 9th pick
Rivers - 10th pick
Elf - 10th pick
Burks - 12 pick

So 10 lottery picks on this team. And not only are we not good, most expect us to be awful. NBA draft is the biggest crap shoot.

Obligatory MKG shooting form picture  
Anakim : 11/28/2020 10:27 am : link
RE: Knicks roster is example A on why...  
Anakim : 11/28/2020 10:27 am : link
In comment 15058018 Italianju said:
Quote:
its so hard to "just build through the draft".

RJ - 3rd pick
MKG - 3rd pick
Noel - 6th pick
Randle - 7th pick
Frank - 8th pick
Knox - 9th pick
DSJ 9th pick
Rivers - 10th pick
Elf - 10th pick
Burks - 12 pick

So 10 lottery picks on this team. And not only are we not good, most expect us to be awful. NBA draft is the biggest crap shoot.


Indeed. I mean we have three top-10 picks at PG and we still have the worst PG situation in the league.
I'm  
Jon in NYC : 11/28/2020 10:31 am : link
really not so sure another move is actually coming.

Spellman and Evans can be cut easily. So can Bullock for that matter.
Iggy  
Jon in NYC : 11/28/2020 10:33 am : link
can also be cut.
RE: I'm  
Anakim : 11/28/2020 10:55 am : link
In comment 15058024 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
really not so sure another move is actually coming.

Spellman and Evans can be cut easily. So can Bullock for that matter.


Kind of hoping we give Spellman a shot. He was sooo good at Nova. I still think there's some untapped potential there. And I think we'll need Bullock's 3P shooting.
You should be thrown off of the site  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/28/2020 10:58 am : link
for posting that picture. That thing is more frightening than a crime scene photo. What the hell is MKG doing?
Scott Perry has to be feeling left out  
ghost718 : 11/28/2020 11:33 am : link
The numbers for the Orlando Scrubs are dwindling
I’m really hoping they don’t gut Iggy  
GMEN46 : 11/28/2020 12:33 pm : link
Again he will ben er be a superstar, but he is someone who can be a good spark off the bench, he can shoot, he will play hard and he will make the right play.
Cap space  
GMEN46 : 11/28/2020 12:41 pm : link
If knicks wait to sign Payton to the exception then they have 23.3 million in cap space. Could they include bullock in sign and trade with Boston and Charlotte to either of those teams and have enough to then take on batum? In this scenario it seems like the Knicks would have enough space although it not sure Boston would want bullock so they may have to ship him somewhere else with a 2nd rd pick and pick up a protected first from Charlotte.

The bigger question is where can Randle go? Unless the Knicks tell him he is coming off the bench and playing 15-20 min a night max then I have no idea what they are going to do with him.
Cap space  
GMEN46 : 11/28/2020 12:42 pm : link
If knicks wait to sign Payton to the exception then they have 23.3 million in cap space. Could they include bullock in sign and trade with Boston and Charlotte to either of those teams and have enough to then take on batum? In this scenario it seems like the Knicks would have enough space although it not sure Boston would want bullock so they may have to ship him somewhere else with a 2nd rd pick and pick up a protected first from Charlotte.

The bigger question is where can Randle go? Unless the Knicks tell him he is coming off the bench and playing 15-20 min a night max then I have no idea what they are going to do with him.
Call me crazy, but I would love it if we signed Thon Maker and/or  
Anakim : 11/28/2020 1:06 pm : link
Cheick Diallo
RE: Knicks roster is example A on why...  
Enzo : 11/28/2020 1:47 pm : link
In comment 15058018 Italianju said:
Quote:
its so hard to "just build through the draft".

RJ - 3rd pick
MKG - 3rd pick
Noel - 6th pick
Randle - 7th pick
Frank - 8th pick
Knox - 9th pick
DSJ 9th pick
Rivers - 10th pick
Elf - 10th pick
Burks - 12 pick

So 10 lottery picks on this team. And not only are we not good, most expect us to be awful. NBA draft is the biggest crap shoot.

true, however just about all of them were outside the top 3. I'm stating the obvious, but your odds of getting a star are much higher at the very very top of the draft. It becomes very difficult (not impossible) after only a few picks. Look at the history of picks 6-10. It's littered with guys that never even sniffed an all star team.
Star PG?  
Samiam : 11/28/2020 10:24 pm : link
Knicks don’t even have a decent point guard let alone a good one and haven’t had decent one in years. With the high picks they’ve had, is it asking too much to get a decent PG?
Hornets have waived and stretched Nic Batum  
Anakim : 11/29/2020 2:21 pm : link
.
RE: Hornets have waived and stretched Nic Batum  
bceagle05 : 11/29/2020 2:24 pm : link
In comment 15059075 Anakim said:
Quote:
.

Yep, and we officially announced the Payton signing. The tank rolls forward.
The Celtics completed their sign and trade with Charlotte  
Saquads26 : 11/29/2020 5:00 pm : link
They received the largest trade exception in league history in return. Because of course the did sigh
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