Rusty from the bye week? Were we focused on other areas during last week's practice? Did Bengals discover some weaknesses or tendencies? Did we have different guys playing key positions? It went from an area of strength to one that almost cost us the game.
to be excoriated for that Bengals TD drive. And it is not the 1st time he has done it. He never puts pressure on the QB late in a game or late in a half. He seems content to play a little prevent offense and allows the opposing team big chunks of yardage.
He makes a brilliant game plan, then doesn't get some addition pressure when he should.
Also, Colt McCoy running OB on that 2nd down after the fumble recover is a bonehead play cost them 40 seconds.
We have said it before - Garrett has to stop calling backwards or sideways plays in the Red Zone.
Would not ant to be in the Special Teams room this week - wow did the suck.
are games we have lost in the past. So, although it was ugly.. we have to embrace the fact that they pulled it out.
You think that's because of some measurable increase in talent/coaching or just a favorable dice roll? I think today could easily fall into the latter category.
RE: I agree that Peart should start. That was an ugly win against a bad
We are not exactly a "good" team. The analogy here is some not so good looking guy on a sports team message board sees a photo of a girl and starts criticizing her thumbs.
Jason Garrett was really upset over the Columbo firing.
That’s the only explanation for some of the play calls. Then when he made a decent play call, Cam Fleming acted like Cam Fleming.
Anyone who ever said they were better off with Colt McCoy was obviously out of their mind. I don’t know how Daniel Jones’ career will turn out, but it will definitely be better than Colt McCoy’s. Hopefully Danny can come back in 2 weeks.
When you lose to a team worse than you are, 3 things happened:
- penalties
- turnovers
- special teams
The Giants avoided one of them and barely held on.
which said a lot about the player and where this team is moving was the Shepard catch after falling. He never quit on the play and McCoy out the ball where it was supposed to be.
are not a good football team. Tons of mistakes and inexplicable play calling. Way too much running on first down after Jones was hurt.
KO for a TD.
Fumble by Engram.
Several near INTs by Alexander.
McCoy missing Lewis for a wide open TD.
McCoy running wide when all we should have down was run the ball into the line three times to force the Bengals to use another TO.
Three penalties by Fleming.
Dropped TD pass by Slayton.
Big PR right at the end of the game that put the Bengals at midfield.
Gallman, the OL, Shepard, and Jones played well. On defense, Williams, Lawrence, Tomlinson, Brown, Bradberry, Peppers, and Lalos were stand outs. Gano was also terrific as usual.
But we were lucky. Burrow would have killed us today. Allen clearly had no timing with his WRs.
Jason Garrett was really upset over the Columbo firing.
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4:08 pm : link : reply
That’s the only explanation for some of the play calls. Then when he made a decent play call, Cam Fleming acted like Cam Fleming.
So you're thinking Jason Garret intentionally called a bad game? As revenge?
That’s the only explanation for some of the play calls. Then when he made a decent play call, Cam Fleming acted like Cam Fleming.
Anyone who ever said they were better off with Colt McCoy was obviously out of their mind. I don’t know how Daniel Jones’ career will turn out, but it will definitely be better than Colt McCoy’s. Hopefully Danny can come back in 2 weeks.
When you lose to a team worse than you are, 3 things happened:
- penalties
- turnovers
- special teams
The Giants avoided one of them and barely held on.
MCCoy can make some throws and with a week of practice with the starters should be a little better performance. That said, he’s not the athlete that Jones is!
RE: Jason Garrett was really upset over the Columbo firing.
That’s the only explanation for some of the play calls. Then when he made a decent play call, Cam Fleming acted like Cam Fleming.
Anyone who ever said they were better off with Colt McCoy was obviously out of their mind. I don’t know how Daniel Jones’ career will turn out, but it will definitely be better than Colt McCoy’s. Hopefully Danny can come back in 2 weeks.
When you lose to a team worse than you are, 3 things happened:
- penalties
- turnovers
- special teams
The Giants avoided one of them and barely held on.
McCoy did what he needed to do, hold on to the football. He will be much better with a week of 1st team snaps. He got too excited on that flats pass over Lewis head.
Jason Garrett was really upset over the Columbo firing.
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4:08 pm : link : reply
That’s the only explanation for some of the play calls. Then when he made a decent play call, Cam Fleming acted like Cam Fleming.
So you're thinking Jason Garret intentionally called a bad game? As revenge?
Sarcasm isn’t your friend. This isn’t the game thread... people aren’t that crazy here.
That’s the only explanation for some of the play calls. Then when he made a decent play call, Cam Fleming acted like Cam Fleming.
Anyone who ever said they were better off with Colt McCoy was obviously out of their mind. I don’t know how Daniel Jones’ career will turn out, but it will definitely be better than Colt McCoy’s. Hopefully Danny can come back in 2 weeks.
When you lose to a team worse than you are, 3 things happened:
- penalties
- turnovers
- special teams
The Giants avoided one of them and barely held on.
McCoy did what he needed to do, hold on to the football. He will be much better with a week of 1st team snaps. He got too excited on that flats pass over Lewis head.
Yeah he panicked
That’s lack of playing in a real game in a few years.
McCoy did what he needed to do, hold on to the football. He will be much better with a week of 1st team snaps. He got too excited on that flats pass over Lewis head.
You’ve got more faith in him than I do. Hopefully you’re right.
to be excoriated for that Bengals TD drive. And it is not the 1st time he has done it. He never puts pressure on the QB late in a game or late in a half. He seems content to play a little prevent offense and allows the opposing team big chunks of yardage.
He makes a brilliant game plan, then doesn't get some addition pressure when he should.
I don't know about this. His D created three turnovers and created the game ending play.
Sorry, I think Graham continues to delivery some quality play from his D.
are not a good football team. Tons of mistakes and inexplicable play calling. Way too much running on first down after Jones was hurt.
KO for a TD.
Fumble by Engram.
Several near INTs by Alexander.
McCoy missing Lewis for a wide open TD.
McCoy running wide when all we should have down was run the ball into the line three times to force the Bengals to use another TO.
Three penalties by Fleming.
Dropped TD pass by Slayton.
Big PR right at the end of the game that put the Bengals at midfield.
Gallman, the OL, Shepard, and Jones played well. On defense, Williams, Lawrence, Tomlinson, Brown, Bradberry, Peppers, and Lalos were stand outs. Gano was also terrific as usual.
But we were lucky. Burrow would have killed us today. Allen clearly had no timing with his WRs.
to be excoriated for that Bengals TD drive. And it is not the 1st time he has done it. He never puts pressure on the QB late in a game or late in a half. He seems content to play a little prevent offense and allows the opposing team big chunks of yardage.
He makes a brilliant game plan, then doesn't get some addition pressure when he should.
I don't know about this. His D created three turnovers and created the game ending play.
Sorry, I think Graham continues to delivery some quality play from his D.
are not a good football team. Tons of mistakes and inexplicable play calling. Way too much running on first down after Jones was hurt.
KO for a TD.
Fumble by Engram.
Several near INTs by Alexander.
McCoy missing Lewis for a wide open TD.
McCoy running wide when all we should have down was run the ball into the line three times to force the Bengals to use another TO.
Three penalties by Fleming.
Dropped TD pass by Slayton.
Big PR right at the end of the game that put the Bengals at midfield.
Gallman, the OL, Shepard, and Jones played well. On defense, Williams, Lawrence, Tomlinson, Brown, Bradberry, Peppers, and Lalos were stand outs. Gano was also terrific as usual.
But we were lucky. Burrow would have killed us today. Allen clearly had no timing with his WRs.
Good summary ... Dion Lewis was pretty good today too ... EE was EE, great plays and yet the fumble. Pray DJ is a fast healer but that hammy looked bad.
I don't know about this. His D created three turnovers and created the game ending play.
Sorry, I think Graham continues to delivery some quality play from his D.
I tend to agree. The TD drive was more about the penalties, one dumb and the other nonexistent. The defense was excellent except for like 2 or 3’plays outside of that drive.
call. 6 points even to a 3rd stringer is NOT a bad result. Our offense wasn't great but Jones had his highest yardage first half in his career. Colt McCoy was HORRIBLE. Honestly, we're not good enough to be disappointed in results like this. This was also probably the first game our STs sucked, that's an outlier.
are not a good football team. Tons of mistakes and inexplicable play calling. Way too much running on first down after Jones was hurt.
KO for a TD.
Fumble by Engram.
Several near INTs by Alexander.
McCoy missing Lewis for a wide open TD.
McCoy running wide when all we should have down was run the ball into the line three times to force the Bengals to use another TO.
Three penalties by Fleming.
Dropped TD pass by Slayton.
Big PR right at the end of the game that put the Bengals at midfield.
Gallman, the OL, Shepard, and Jones played well. On defense, Williams, Lawrence, Tomlinson, Brown, Bradberry, Peppers, and Lalos were stand outs. Gano was also terrific as usual.
But we were lucky. Burrow would have killed us today. Allen clearly had no timing with his WRs.
Good summary ... Dion Lewis was pretty good today too ... EE was EE, great plays and yet the fumble. Pray DJ is a fast healer but that hammy looked bad.
don't know why Garrett is taking shit. What kind of gameplan was he supposed to have? We ran the ball well. We more than doubled the Cincy output. We valued possession of the ball and just missed a TD to Slayton and did hit two downfield plays when we took the shot.
I tend to agree. The TD drive was more about the penalties, one dumb and the other nonexistent. The defense was excellent except for like 2 or 3’plays outside of that drive.
Look, after another case of special teams coverage, Graham's D saved the game. That's the story.
I don't know about this. His D created three turnovers and created the game ending play.
Sorry, I think Graham continues to delivery some quality play from his D.
I tend to agree. The TD drive was more about the penalties, one dumb and the other nonexistent. The defense was excellent except for like 2 or 3’plays outside of that drive.
I am certain about it. He should have had blitzes a little more often. 3 man rushes do not cut it when the other team needs to throw the ball. The DBs played well enough that he should have been sending more people to get Allen moving.
The rest of the game was great. But he just doesn't pressure the QB late in games.
I agree that LW's penalty was beyond stupid and the Holmes one was just blown - when both announcers are dumbfounded and can not find where the penalty is, it was not a penalty.
Amazing that there are posters who think BBI is overly positive..
is beating other crappy teams instead of finding ways to lose.
Not long ago this game would have gone the other way.
Are Giants a good team? Not yet. But I don't think I'm kidding myself when I see this team headed in the right direction.
^ This...
I said something similar on the "Statement Win" thread...
Improvement starts with beating the crappy teams. However, I would not get too excited about barely eking out a win against a lousy team that had the backup for the entire game, not just the 4th qtr.
are not a good football team. Tons of mistakes and inexplicable play calling. Way too much running on first down after Jones was hurt.
KO for a TD.
Fumble by Engram.
Several near INTs by Alexander.
McCoy missing Lewis for a wide open TD.
McCoy running wide when all we should have down was run the ball into the line three times to force the Bengals to use another TO.
Three penalties by Fleming.
Dropped TD pass by Slayton.
Big PR right at the end of the game that put the Bengals at midfield.
Gallman, the OL, Shepard, and Jones played well. On defense, Williams, Lawrence, Tomlinson, Brown, Bradberry, Peppers, and Lalos were stand outs. Gano was also terrific as usual.
But we were lucky. Burrow would have killed us today. Allen clearly had no timing with his WRs.
Good summary ... Dion Lewis was pretty good today too ... EE was EE, great plays and yet the fumble. Pray DJ is a fast healer but that hammy looked bad.
Deserve a standing ovation for te effort put in to try and get them Cowboys into first place with only 1 team. Pretty sickening ending if you ask me. The league is bordering on being fixed now.
don't know why Garrett is taking shit. What kind of gameplan was he supposed to have? We ran the ball well. We more than doubled the Cincy output. We valued possession of the ball and just missed a TD to Slayton and did hit two downfield plays when we took the shot.
Poor clock management and risking the only QB you have left with runs. The sideline QB sweep saved the Bengals a timeout. Without that, another 30-40 seconds is run off of the clock.
... but we got out of there with a win and we’re in first place. Anyone who isn’t happy with that is nuts.
Lol . . . I was so stressed when the Bengals had the ball near the 50 that I stormed into the bedroom and couldn’t bare to watch the loss.
The. my GF yells out “Hey! Hey! Yes!” And I hear the announcer say “Giants ball.” I yell out from the bedroom. . . . “Did I just hear “Giants ball?!” She says “Get out here!” And I do.
I collapsed onto my back on the floor with my right hand on my heart.
Hopefully DJ's injury is not serious. This team continues to improve. The defense continues to make plays.
A definite change in culture this year is a major plus.
Just want to see continued improvement each week.
A win is a win in the NFL. No apologies...
GO GIANTS!!!!
don't know why Garrett is taking shit. What kind of gameplan was he supposed to have? We ran the ball well. We more than doubled the Cincy output. We valued possession of the ball and just missed a TD to Slayton and did hit two downfield plays when we took the shot.
Agree. Actually thought he called a good game. McCoy made some ugly throws on what were actually good calls. Also the OL was unable to open holes because Cindy knew McCoy could not beat them through the air. If its a hamstring Jones could be done for several weeks.
Even with Jones the offense wasn't exactly lighting it up
...Hope Jones is OK and can recover by next week. Hamstring injuries are problematic
There is no way he is back next week. If he misses only two games we are fortunate, and his hammy will not have fully healed at that point. It will impact the way defenses scheme us dramatically.
RE: Even with Jones the offense wasn't exactly lighting it up
They showed the opposite.
Fleming: should never start again at RT.
Slayton: totally disappeared.
Engram: retires the award for most reliably and consistently disappointing.
DJ: is what he is, but he can throw some. Without him the whole thing falls apart. Better hope the hammy heals overnight.
Refs: phony PI call giving the Bungles the ball on the Giants' one kept folks watching the ads for the last few minutes of an otherwise impossible-to-win from two scores behind game. How convenient.
don't know why Garrett is taking shit. What kind of gameplan was he supposed to have? We ran the ball well. We more than doubled the Cincy output. We valued possession of the ball and just missed a TD to Slayton and did hit two downfield plays when we took the shot.
Agree. Actually thought he called a good game. McCoy made some ugly throws on what were actually good calls. Also the OL was unable to open holes because Cindy knew McCoy could not beat them through the air. If its a hamstring Jones could be done for several weeks.
Agree about Garrett. Just because a play fails, doesn't mean it is a bad call.
to be excoriated for that Bengals TD drive. And it is not the 1st time he has done it. He never puts pressure on the QB late in a game or late in a half. He seems content to play a little prevent offense and allows the opposing team big chunks of yardage.
He makes a brilliant game plan, then doesn't get some addition pressure when he should.
I don't know about this. His D created three turnovers and created the game ending play.
Sorry, I think Graham continues to delivery some quality play from his D.
This was 100 percent on design. The problem was the LW penalty. If he doesn't make that, it cost about 40 seconds as long as that 15 they needed to get was in the field of play, which of course you keep shit inside. Dumb, dumb penalty from a guy who has mostly shown to be a smart player.
I took Giants -5.5 and I knew they weren't going to cover when they went up 9 looking at timeouts and exactly how much time they had left. Not unless we forced a turnover or sack. They have the skilly players to dink and dunk down field.
Gurantee LW gets fucking spit roasted in the film room.
gameplan. We had 380 yards of offense. Cincy had 150.
We had the ball for 36 minutes to 22 minutes for Cincy.
We had 19 first downs to Cincy's 11 (and had a 3:1 ratio when Jones was injured)
We had 9 third down conversions.
You guys can keep trying to say the offense was poor, but you really aren't making a very compelling case. Jones stays in that game, we win by two TD's
Deserve a standing ovation for te effort put in to try and get them Cowboys into first place with only 1 team. Pretty sickening ending if you ask me. The league is bordering on being fixed now.
How does a league "border" on being fixed? Either it is or it isn't.
Bad calls and incompetence makes a lot more sense than a multi-billion dollar enterprise risking its reputation by fixing games to benefit the 2-7-1 Bengals or the 3-8 Cowboys.
don't know why Garrett is taking shit. What kind of gameplan was he supposed to have? We ran the ball well. We more than doubled the Cincy output. We valued possession of the ball and just missed a TD to Slayton and did hit two downfield plays when we took the shot.
Agree. Actually thought he called a good game. McCoy made some ugly throws on what were actually good calls. Also the OL was unable to open holes because Cindy knew McCoy could not beat them through the air. If its a hamstring Jones could be done for several weeks.
Agree about Garrett. Just because a play fails, doesn't mean it is a bad call.
I've though Garrett has done a great job this year, just has a tremendous feel for the game as far as playcalling goes, but today wasn't good. Had no issue for him going for some big stuff early, we get those plays and Bengals have no chance with that offensive unit. But going a little further into game it was clear we should have been going more straight. Plus having Colt McCoy throw on 3 and 15 at like the 25 was criminal with him just coming into game and it almost cost us the game, easy pick dropped. There was some other shit, but the coaches (other than Graham) have a lot of things to fix after this one.
gameplan. We had 380 yards of offense. Cincy had 150.
We had the ball for 36 minutes to 22 minutes for Cincy.
We had 19 first downs to Cincy's 11 (and had a 3:1 ratio when Jones was injured)
We had 9 third down conversions.
You guys can keep trying to say the offense was poor, but you really aren't making a very compelling case. Jones stays in that game, we win by two TD's
Yeh people are way off on that. I said a little before halftime, this is the type of game where we are down 3 at half and then win going away in the second based on what I saw that far. DJ getting hurt changed that arithmetic a bit. And we still moved the ball better than them and McCoy was only good at evading the rush today, only positive on his review. Which is fine for a backup coming in, don't turn it over and don't take sacks.
Yeah, they did not look great but they got to win. For a young team that is probably a better result because they realize how much work they have to do instead of getting big heads and thinking they are better than what they are.
gameplan. We had 380 yards of offense. Cincy had 150.
We had the ball for 36 minutes to 22 minutes for Cincy.
We had 19 first downs to Cincy's 11 (and had a 3:1 ratio when Jones was injured)
We had 9 third down conversions.
You guys can keep trying to say the offense was poor, but you really aren't making a very compelling case. Jones stays in that game, we win by two TD's
It's also why I liked them going for some big time trick plays early. We get a few easy ones early and the Bengals have zero chance to play catch up. Didn't work, but I understand why they did it.
don't know why Garrett is taking shit. What kind of gameplan was he supposed to have? We ran the ball well. We more than doubled the Cincy output. We valued possession of the ball and just missed a TD to Slayton and did hit two downfield plays when we took the shot.
Poor clock management and risking the only QB you have left with runs. The sideline QB sweep saved the Bengals a timeout. Without that, another 30-40 seconds is run off of the clock.
That's on McCoy. No reason to go OOB there at all. He was moving upfield.
gameplan. We had 380 yards of offense. Cincy had 150.
We had the ball for 36 minutes to 22 minutes for Cincy.
We had 19 first downs to Cincy's 11 (and had a 3:1 ratio when Jones was injured)
We had 9 third down conversions.
You guys can keep trying to say the offense was poor, but you really aren't making a very compelling case. Jones stays in that game, we win by two TD's
They scored a whopping 19 points, 13 of them with Jones (I think, can't remember what the score was when he went out). Against a defense as bad as Cincinnati, that's not very good.
And we needed to do something to gurantee a few yards, to give us
play. In that situation, the only thing that mattered is using up clock. The QB sweep would take a few more seconds than anything else, so long as the QB did his job and went down inbounds.
gameplan. We had 380 yards of offense. Cincy had 150.
We had the ball for 36 minutes to 22 minutes for Cincy.
We had 19 first downs to Cincy's 11 (and had a 3:1 ratio when Jones was injured)
We had 9 third down conversions.
You guys can keep trying to say the offense was poor, but you really aren't making a very compelling case. Jones stays in that game, we win by two TD's
They scored a whopping 19 points, 13 of them with Jones (I think, can't remember what the score was when he went out). Against a defense as bad as Cincinnati, that's not very good.
That wasn’t on Jones. Engram fumbled in scoring territory and Slayton dropping the ball.
Any win is a good win. D was outstanding. DJ played mistake free again. Special teams play was uncharacteristically bad, but that is an aberration. Arrow is still pointing up.
When the Giants were perennial playoff contenders a win like this would be upsetting. Can’t understand why anyone wouldn’t feel good about this win for a team that is ascending and struggling to be a decent team. We are not that far away.
This was 100 percent on design. The problem was the LW penalty. If he doesn't make that, it cost about 40 seconds as long as that 15 they needed to get was in the field of play, which of course you keep shit inside. Dumb, dumb penalty from a guy who has mostly shown to be a smart player.
I took Giants -5.5 and I knew they weren't going to cover when they went up 9 looking at timeouts and exactly how much time they had left. Not unless we forced a turnover or sack. They have the skilly players to dink and dunk down field.
Gurantee LW gets fucking spit roasted in the film room.
I didn't mind the flag in the PI in the end zone. I thought it was PI.
The lengths the league goes to protect QBs is just preposterous. LW merely pushed Allen. He didn't hit or tackle him. Allen acted like he got shot by the shooter on the grassy knoll...So that call really bothered me.
I don't know why anybody blames Graham for his calls on the TD drive.
At that point in the game, the clock was all that mattered. Let the Bengals complete 10-15 yard passes, and we're fine. But Williams's penalty gave them the Bengals 15 free yards and stopped the clock. Without that, they couldn't have thrown to the endzone in hopes of getting a DPI.
As long as we got the ball back with a "normal" amount of time, we could have run out the clock.
Slayton play should have been a TD
McCoy overthrew Lewis for a sure TD on a very good call.
We ran the ball effectively against a stacked defense.
Gallman continues to shine.
Engram is MR. Inconsistent
Hopefully Peart can play next in place of Fleming who was trying to handle the win the the Bengels.
Special teams better clean up their act fast.
Giants really need a number 1 WR.
Deserve a standing ovation for te effort put in to try and get them Cowboys into first place with only 1 team. Pretty sickening ending if you ask me. The league is bordering on being fixed now.
How does a league "border" on being fixed? Either it is or it isn't.
Bad calls and incompetence makes a lot more sense than a multi-billion dollar enterprise risking its reputation by fixing games to benefit the 2-7-1 Bengals or the 3-8 Cowboys.
^This. At the expense of one of two teams from the largest market in the United States. It's laughable really.
gameplan. We had 380 yards of offense. Cincy had 150.
We had the ball for 36 minutes to 22 minutes for Cincy.
We had 19 first downs to Cincy's 11 (and had a 3:1 ratio when Jones was injured)
We had 9 third down conversions.
You guys can keep trying to say the offense was poor, but you really aren't making a very compelling case. Jones stays in that game, we win by two TD's
how dare you deviate from the "agreed upon" consensus and narrative...
Go easy on Fleming. I had the Giants Defense in fantasy football and his last penalty enabled them to pick up a sack and fumble recovery for my fantasy team!
are games we have lost in the past. So, although it was ugly.. we have to embrace the fact that they pulled it out.
You think that's because of some measurable increase in talent/coaching or just a favorable dice roll? I think today could easily fall into the latter category.
You're saying Cincinatti deserved to win? I don't think so, they got outplayed.
Saw countless games similar to this one in the Parcells era.
Winning, when you are the idiot making mistakes like a KR TD, getting called for stupid or bad end zone penalties, dumb fumbles like Engram's for a 6 point swing...
Winning despite all those errors takes good coaching, and solid defense.
I've never seen a team do less than the Bengals and have a chance to win. A KR for a TD, a bad turnover by the Giants deep in scoring range, a bad hold by the Giants and a bad PI call in the end zone and they almost won.
They did one good thing: their opening KR. Other than that they did nothing. And almost won.
What a tragedy it would've been to lose that game.
For those griping about the special teams - the Bengals quietly have outstanding specials. Their KR lead the league last year, and they can cover. That snap on the fake punt was pretty damn good - I've never seen that before. They almost did just enough to bullshit a win.
Jason Garrett was really upset over the Columbo firing.
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4:08 pm : link : reply
That’s the only explanation for some of the play calls. Then when he made a decent play call, Cam Fleming acted like Cam Fleming.
So you're thinking Jason Garret intentionally called a bad game? As revenge?
Sarcasm isn’t your friend. This isn’t the game thread... people aren’t that crazy here.
Uhmm, YOU were being sarcastic ( we assume, as you wouldn't answer the man's querry directly), not the guy who asked if you were serious. Seems it's you sarcasm doesn't play well for.
My point is that I don't agree with the implication that the offense was just humming along great until Jones got hurt.
But we were humming along pretty well. We had 250+ yards when Jones got hurt and we had converted over 50% of our 3rd down conversions. When Jones left the game, the Giants had outgained the Bengals more than 2 to 1, had 3:1 ratio of first downs and held the ball twice as long. and that was still with Engram fumbling in the red zone.
I'm pretty sure the gameplan going into the week was to control the ball, give the Bengals long fields to work with and not make mistakes.
My point is that I don't agree with the implication that the offense was just humming along great until Jones got hurt.
But we were humming along pretty well. We had 250+ yards when Jones got hurt and we had converted over 50% of our 3rd down conversions. When Jones left the game, the Giants had outgained the Bengals more than 2 to 1, had 3:1 ratio of first downs and held the ball twice as long. and that was still with Engram fumbling in the red zone.
I'm pretty sure the gameplan going into the week was to control the ball, give the Bengals long fields to work with and not make mistakes.
Scoring points is the objective and they weren’t doing that even with Jones despite piling up yardage.
I've never seen a team do less than the Bengals and have a chance to win. A KR for a TD, a bad turnover by the Giants deep in scoring range, a bad hold by the Giants and a bad PI call in the end zone and they almost won.
They did one good thing: their opening KR. Other than that they did nothing. And almost won.
What a tragedy it would've been to lose that game.
For those griping about the special teams - the Bengals quietly have outstanding specials. Their KR lead the league last year, and they can cover. That snap on the fake punt was pretty damn good - I've never seen that before. They almost did just enough to bullshit a win.
That's part of the problem though. I know Judge likes to make them defend every play, and that's his mantra, but when you go up against a team like this and the only way they can beat you is with some major variance, like specials score, don't let them return it. Hopefully, he learns from this, but it almost seemed arrogant.
This was 100 percent on design. The problem was the LW penalty. If he doesn't make that, it cost about 40 seconds as long as that 15 they needed to get was in the field of play, which of course you keep shit inside. Dumb, dumb penalty from a guy who has mostly shown to be a smart player.
I took Giants -5.5 and I knew they weren't going to cover when they went up 9 looking at timeouts and exactly how much time they had left. Not unless we forced a turnover or sack. They have the skilly players to dink and dunk down field.
Gurantee LW gets fucking spit roasted in the film room.
I didn't mind the flag in the PI in the end zone. I thought it was PI.
The lengths the league goes to protect QBs is just preposterous. LW merely pushed Allen. He didn't hit or tackle him. Allen acted like he got shot by the shooter on the grassy knoll...So that call really bothered me.
The idea that pushing a QB is a 15 yard penalty is absurd. You want to throw a 5 yard flag and no auto first sure? But roughing the passer should be reserved for actually roughing the passer.
At it's finest... only you guys would shit on a three game winning streak.
yup. and closing out a game that they would have lost most of the last 5 years. I guess learning how to win doesn't count now.
The STs were unexpectedly poor today. That 103 yd KO return killed their momentum and gave Cincy life. And to the Bengals credit, they did not fold up despite the Burrow disaster. They came to play.
*Get a turnover with the opponent deep in scoring range, plus a big return.
*Get 2 unforced missed TDs by the Giants (the bomb to Slayton, the miss to Dion Lewis)
*Convert a fake punt.
*Get a pass interference penalty on a desperation heave into the end zone.
*Get a holding call when the opponent ices the game.
*Get a big punt return to set up the final FG drive.
That one had all the makings of a classic loss. I give the Giants credit for overcoming all that and still winning. Still shaking my head at Garrett's playcalling down the stretch.
I love the way there just has to be a list of things wrong, even in a win.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
Saw countless games similar to this one in the Parcells era.
Winning, when you are the idiot making mistakes like a KR TD, getting called for stupid or bad end zone penalties, dumb fumbles like Engram's for a 6 point swing...
Winning despite all those errors takes good coaching, and solid defense.
*Get a turnover with the opponent deep in scoring range, plus a big return.
*Get 2 unforced missed TDs by the Giants (the bomb to Slayton, the miss to Dion Lewis)
*Convert a fake punt.
*Get a pass interference penalty on a desperation heave into the end zone.
*Get a holding call when the opponent ices the game.
*Get a big punt return to set up the final FG drive.
That one had all the makings of a classic loss. I give the Giants credit for overcoming all that and still winning. Still shaking my head at Garrett's playcalling down the stretch.
Honestly was convinced we were going to lose after the LW penalty. Defense answered the bell again. Lots of pressure on them today, even considering they were going against a mash unit on offense, but they played as good as you can.
Was knowing some how Cinci would probably have a chance to win the game at the end.....and they almost did had there not been a fumble.
I bet I wasn’t alone either....I bet 90% of us here just knew they would score a TD or FG to cut it to either 1 or 6 and then we would go 3 and out and give them the ball back to win?
I love the way there just has to be a list of things wrong, even in a win.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
There is a list of things wrong in this one though. And now its compounded with a DJ moving forward with no mobility, which was a big part of our offense. Our skill players just aren't good enough for this offense to lose that. Although maybe Engram is finally rounding into form, seems to be playing with a lot more confidence. That fumble was helluva play by that Bengals guy. Don't really put that one on him, he had it secured.
As much as a No. 1 WR, they also really need a legit TE who is big, physical, and can catch consistently on the short and crossing routes. It would be a huge advantage for DJ to have that safety net, along with a defense-loosening No. 1, as you say. EE should play outside only.
All the running plays today, when EE was shown, he was flopping on the pile after the run was over. He is inept as a blocker.
Was knowing some how Cinci would probably have a chance to win the game at the end.....and they almost did had there not been a fumble.
I bet I wasn’t alone either....I bet 90% of us here just knew they would score a TD or FG to cut it to either 1 or 6 and then we would go 3 and out and give them the ball back to win?
Well obviously we knew they were going to score, that's how they attack that situation in NFL, rightly so. The thing is we got a ticky tack PI call, the Bengals didn't make any mistakes, and LW with the dumb penalty. Take away any of those and we are talking about them scoring and then having to do an onside kick.
I didn't mind the flag in the PI in the end zone. I thought it was PI.
The lengths the league goes to protect QBs is just preposterous. LW merely pushed Allen. He didn't hit or tackle him. Allen acted like he got shot by the shooter on the grassy knoll...So that call really bothered me.
The idea that pushing a QB is a 15 yard penalty is absurd. You want to throw a 5 yard flag and no auto first sure? But roughing the passer should be reserved for actually roughing the passer.
Right. There is nothing "roughing" about a push.
No helmet to helmet. Nothing low. No body slam. No hitting in the face. Etc. Etc.
First place Giants and a young team and a young HC get to play some meaningful football in December. That’s good!
My biggest kvetch is not sticking with Gallman as the feature back. I just don’t understand why Morris is getting any touches. Gallman could have had 100 rushing today if he got Morris snaps and he may well have put the game away if he ran the ball instead of that stupid sweep with McCoy. Just pound the ball with Gallman and this game probably wasn’t close at the end.
But, yeah, I’m happy the Giants are in first place. Not because I think they’re gonna make a playoff run but because they’ll keep playing meaningful football games as the season grinds on. For the first time in a long while it seems like the Giants building something and that includes winning ugly on the road, off the bye and against a lousy team.
I love the way there just has to be a list of things wrong, even in a win.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
Does not finishing drives even when Jones was in the game not a negative? If they finish some of those drives it doesn’t come down to needing a strip sack to close it out.
It’s ok for there to be negatives in a win. Don’t need to excuse away everything.
I didn't mind the flag in the PI in the end zone. I thought it was PI.
The lengths the league goes to protect QBs is just preposterous. LW merely pushed Allen. He didn't hit or tackle him. Allen acted like he got shot by the shooter on the grassy knoll...So that call really bothered me.
The idea that pushing a QB is a 15 yard penalty is absurd. You want to throw a 5 yard flag and no auto first sure? But roughing the passer should be reserved for actually roughing the passer.
Right. There is nothing "roughing" about a push.
No helmet to helmet. Nothing low. No body slam. No hitting in the face. Etc. Etc.
Just a bastardized interpretation of the rule.
Come on bw - that shove gets a flag about 9 times out of 10
Now it’s boo hoo, we barely beat a bad team. Whatever happened to this team needs to learn how to win? Or is it, this team needs to learn how to win and look good in the process now? You people suck.
Honestly I do t care about the Ws or Ls this year, never did. I like Judge and like what he’s building, but we need more talent. I’m fine if Jones sits a while we play well down the stretch even if dint win many, then look forward to putting things together next year.
RE: Week after week all I heard was no moral victories
Now it’s boo hoo, we barely beat a bad team. Whatever happened to this team needs to learn how to win? Or is it, this team needs to learn how to win and look good in the process now? You people suck.
Honestly I do t care about the Ws or Ls this year, never did. I like Judge and like what he’s building, but we need more talent. I’m fine if Jones sits a while we play well down the stretch even if dint win many, then look forward to putting things together next year.
We are in desperate need of a big WR. Slayton would be a great #2 and Shepherd a great #3
Anyway, at half time I was pretty convinced the game would go to the Giants. They were controlling the game just not capitalizing. That was bound to come.
Then Jones when out....which was big. On the heels of a potential score.
I have really no complaints other than the last 3 minutes that was aided by some bad decisions (both Giants and refs).
BTW, this win goes to Jones I believe, as he started the game.
RE: Week after week all I heard was no moral victories
Now it’s boo hoo, we barely beat a bad team. Whatever happened to this team needs to learn how to win? Or is it, this team needs to learn how to win and look good in the process now? You people suck.
Honestly I do t care about the Ws or Ls this year, never did. I like Judge and like what he’s building, but we need more talent. I’m fine if Jones sits a while we play well down the stretch even if dint win many, then look forward to putting things together next year.
*mic drop*
RE: Week after week all I heard was no moral victories
Now it’s boo hoo, we barely beat a bad team. Whatever happened to this team needs to learn how to win? Or is it, this team needs to learn how to win and look good in the process now? You people suck.
threw to a covered receiver within 5-10 yards of the LOS. Each time the receiver was blanketed and it looked like a few of those throws were headed for an INT. When Daniel Jones throws short, he's got to quicken his stroke. He's got to dart it out, not wind up! He also seriously needs a new receiver which the Giants (I hope) will draft in Round 1 or 2 next year
My point is that I don't agree with the implication that the offense was just humming along great until Jones got hurt.
They were moving the ball but not scoring. When Jones went out they were in field goal range and at least due to turnovers were in FG range or close to it two more times. The offense could have put up close to 30 with Jones in there regardless of early missteps.
always seeking to be against us. Agree with BW, they call on LW was overly ticky tack. What had me peeved, is the PI and the non- PI on Tate. McCoy’s pass was perfect. Tate’s left arm was CLEARLY hooked where he couldn’t even reach for the ball. NO call. Be consistent. Call both or neither.
My point is that I don't agree with the implication that the offense was just humming along great until Jones got hurt.
But we were humming along pretty well. We had 250+ yards when Jones got hurt and we had converted over 50% of our 3rd down conversions. When Jones left the game, the Giants had outgained the Bengals more than 2 to 1, had 3:1 ratio of first downs and held the ball twice as long. and that was still with Engram fumbling in the red zone.
I'm pretty sure the gameplan going into the week was to control the ball, give the Bengals long fields to work with and not make mistakes.
Scoring points is the objective and they weren’t doing that even with Jones despite piling up yardage.
You should have been alive when the giants won the SB against Buffalo to see The masterful gameplan.
Was absolutely bullshit. Those that say otherwise just dont know the game. The LW penalty was absolutely a PF. He took like 2 full steps and shoved Allen.
Was absolutely bullshit. Those that say otherwise just dont know the game. The LW penalty was absolutely a PF. He took like 2 full steps and shoved Allen.
The rare correct post. Almost mind boggling based on the author.
are games we have lost in the past. So, although it was ugly.. we have to embrace the fact that they pulled it out.
You think that's because of some measurable increase in talent/coaching or just a favorable dice roll? I think today could easily fall into the latter category.
Defense comes up with a sack fumble with Bengals 15 yards from the winning FG, and you say it was luck!
How many times in the past 9 seasons have you seen a Giants defense do that.
I could disagree with your take more,
I have complete confidence in Colt McCoy going forward.
This guys was nails tough for U of T and was on some really crappy NFL OL teams. He is going to get a chance to shine with this young offensive line at a week to prep.
but it wasn't today. Two plays I didn't understand were the McCoy run wide where he went out of bounds, and the 3rd and 2 incompletion on the shot to Tate down the right sideline.
Nevertheless, ugly wins are better than the moral victories we've grown used to the past few years. Take the W and get the hell on the plane back to NJ.
You should have been alive when the giants won the SB against Buffalo to see The masterful gameplan.
Yep, that's exactly what this was, a masterful gameplan to avoid the high powered.....Bengals offense with Brandon Allen. Needing a sack and fumble to hold on against a horrid team is exactly how they drew it up.
RE: Clock management has been a strength all year,
but it wasn't today. Two plays I didn't understand were the McCoy run wide where he went out of bounds, and the 3rd and 2 incompletion on the shot to Tate down the right sideline.
Nevertheless, ugly wins are better than the moral victories we've grown used to the past few years. Take the W and get the hell on the plane back to NJ.
Nothing wrong with the call for McCoy to run wide. That is 100% on him to not go out of bounds.
But, we must lead the league in almost offense and could have offense. We controlled the time of possession, which is a good thing. But, the bottom line is we didn't score. What is this, we could have have put up 30 points nonsense? We didn't. We had 10 points and were stuck in a defensive battle at the half against one of the few teams worse than us in a game that virtually everyone thought we should win going away.
At the end of the day, I'm happy with the win. I just don't want this written off as McCoy came in and that's why it was a 1 point game.
McCoy should be better with a full week of practice. That said, Seattle was probably a longshot with or without Jones. To have any shot in this game, the D will need to be perfect.
There is absolutely no way Fleming should start. Peart should be at RT.
The ST was not good today. But, let's not overreact. ST, as a whole, have been very good this year. I expect them to continue to play well moving forward.
Right. And in those 9 out of 10 times the call is still preposterous.
I don't think so. He took a couple of steps, got his hands on the QB, and then extended his arms and shoved. If he did all that and didn't shove Allen, there's no call. Shoving the QB to the ground 2 steps after the ball was released is going to get a flag.
I would honestly be less annoyed if he was moving full speed and hit Allen. That is almost uncontrollable. What Williams did was 100% avoidable and that is why it gets flagged.
I love the way there just has to be a list of things wrong, even in a win.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
FatMan - you don't think it is a legitimate complaint that we scored 10 points with Jones for over a half against a shitty team? That doesn't mean Jones sucked. That doesn't mean Garrett sucked. It means the offense struggled to score points against a team that, by most accounts, we should have beaten going away. How many teams are there about whom we can say that?
Sure, if St had played better or there hadn't been a BS PI call in the end zone, the game isn't close. But, those things did happen and the offense kept it close.
First place Giants and a young team and a young HC get to play some meaningful football in December. That’s good!
My biggest kvetch is not sticking with Gallman as the feature back. I just don’t understand why Morris is getting any touches. Gallman could have had 100 rushing today if he got Morris snaps and he may well have put the game away if he ran the ball instead of that stupid sweep with McCoy. Just pound the ball with Gallman and this game probably wasn’t close at the end.
But, yeah, I’m happy the Giants are in first place. Not because I think they’re gonna make a playoff run but because they’ll keep playing meaningful football games as the season grinds on. For the first time in a long while it seems like the Giants building something and that includes winning ugly on the road, off the bye and against a lousy team.
Gallman had more than 20 carries as it is. While there are spots late in the game it would have been nice to have had Gallman on the field, it really isn't in their plans to give him the ball 25+ times, nor do I think it should be. Now, maybe that means Morris should have had more touches earlier in the game.
With his special teams tackle at the end of the game. Yet nobody seems to be mentioning him because of how bad our STs were in general. I see Judge mentioned it post game, that was the effort play of the game and possibly season. That play deserves more love and Cam Brown deserves more credit for making it. An awesome play.
With his special teams tackle at the end of the game. Yet nobody seems to be mentioning him because of how bad our STs were in general. I see Judge mentioned it post game, that was the effort play of the game and possibly season. That play deserves more love and Cam Brown deserves more credit for making it. An awesome play.
Osi, I don't think many fans (myself included) have enough perspective to appreciate that play for it's true value
Gallman had more than 20 carries as it is. While there are spots late in the game it would have been nice to have had Gallman on the field, it really isn't in their plans to give him the ball 25+ times, nor do I think it should be. Now, maybe that means Morris should have had more touches earlier in the game.
Why not give Gallman the ball 25+ carries? They should use Lewis on passing downs to spell Gallman but keep it between those two unless there’s an injury or garbage time. I just don’t see what they gain by running Morris out there. Makes no sense to me.
I've never seen a team do less than the Bengals and have a chance to win. A KR for a TD, a bad turnover by the Giants deep in scoring range, a bad hold by the Giants and a bad PI call in the end zone and they almost won.
They did one good thing: their opening KR. Other than that they did nothing. And almost won.
What a tragedy it would've been to lose that game.
For those griping about the special teams - the Bengals quietly have outstanding specials. Their KR lead the league last year, and they can cover. That snap on the fake punt was pretty damn good - I've never seen that before. They almost did just enough to bullshit a win.
There was a game in 05 or so, I think against the Seahawks where we lost 24-21 and gave up 3 points on defense on the final drive of the game. But this was close.
Was knowing some how Cinci would probably have a chance to win the game at the end.....and they almost did had there not been a fumble.
I bet I wasn’t alone either....I bet 90% of us here just knew they would score a TD or FG to cut it to either 1 or 6 and then we would go 3 and out and give them the ball back to win?
This is such a negative take. Instead of being happy that we won a game they would have lost earlier in the year you're criticizing them because we thought they would lose.
I love the way there just has to be a list of things wrong, even in a win.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
FatMan - you don't think it is a legitimate complaint that we scored 10 points with Jones for over a half against a shitty team? That doesn't mean Jones sucked. That doesn't mean Garrett sucked. It means the offense struggled to score points against a team that, by most accounts, we should have beaten going away. How many teams are there about whom we can say that?
Sure, if St had played better or there hadn't been a BS PI call in the end zone, the game isn't close. But, those things did happen and the offense kept it close.
This team has been mediocre and sometimes even bad on offense all season. Why are you shocked? No one's confusing them with Kansas City. Despite all that Jones had the most yards passing in a first half in his career. Sure that's not more important than points but they played much better than the score.
Just because I, and others are not doing black flips over this win, does not mean we are miserable. We all appreciate the win. The vast majority of the takes are that it was good to win this game, it was a game that this team would have lost in the recent past and that is improvement.
However, it was an ugly win over a crappy team that was missing their starting QB and RB. This team is still 4-7 and will struggle to get to 6 wins. It's still not a good team by any stretch of the imagination. It's a win that should help them learn how to win, and that is a good thing. Just because, I and some others have a little perspective on what this win means does not mean we are miserable. Acknowledging small improvement gives us glimmers of hope for the future. But the future isn't here yet for this team
The biggest improvement in the team, by a long mile, has been the coaching staff. To some extent that is better that improving the players. The coaching staff is more stable. Players come and go. And I believe this staff still has plenty of room to grow. Combine that with some improved players and we may see some winning football soon.
Just because I, and others are not doing black flips over this win, does not mean we are miserable. We all appreciate the win. The vast majority of the takes are that it was good to win this game, it was a game that this team would have lost in the recent past and that is improvement.
However, it was an ugly win over a crappy team that was missing their starting QB and RB. This team is still 4-7 and will struggle to get to 6 wins. It's still not a good team by any stretch of the imagination. It's a win that should help them learn how to win, and that is a good thing. Just because, I and some others have a little perspective on what this win means does not mean we are miserable. Acknowledging small improvement gives us glimmers of hope for the future. But the future isn't here yet for this team
The biggest improvement in the team, by a long mile, has been the coaching staff. To some extent that is better that improving the players. The coaching staff is more stable. Players come and go. And I believe this staff still has plenty of room to grow. Combine that with some improved players and we may see some winning football soon.
I like the way you debate McL, laying out your points in a logical, easy to follow flow. Your points come off as well reasoned, too, until examined carefully when they largely fall apart, because the are loaded with unproven assumptions, and of course, like pretty much everyone the optimists here call "miserable", they ignore many facts which oppose them.
What some of us see the "miserable" doing are the following:
1) Boil everything down to W-L... Unless of course the W is ugly, then the W-L is less important than "style" points, and these style points are wholly abitrary because they don't include so much other positive data like the following
2) In a game like yesterday's the miserable focus ONLY on the score amd claim the Giants didn't dominate as they should, when stats aside from the score show the Giants did indeed dominate via other measures:
First downs earned
Passing yards and rushing yards each
Time of possession
Plays ran on offense
3) Create straw men as facts:
"Giants will struggle to get to 6 wins"
"Still not a good team by any stretch of the imagination"
What I would like for the miserable to do is STFU until we see the results over the next 4 games, all vs opponents with WINNING RECORDS.
A 1-7 team has won 3 games in a row, all vs struggling opponents, to achieve a 4-7 record. The remaining 5 games are against 4 winners and one loser with some crazy offensive skills players. If the Giants go 3-2 over those remaining 5 games, they will almost certainly win their division.
Let's wait until that unfolds (or doesn't) before classifying this team too harshly, and missing out on their rapidly improving aspects.
Just because I, and others are not doing black flips over this win, does not mean we are miserable. We all appreciate the win. The vast majority of the takes are that it was good to win this game, it was a game that this team would have lost in the recent past and that is improvement.
However, it was an ugly win over a crappy team that was missing their starting QB and RB. This team is still 4-7 and will struggle to get to 6 wins. It's still not a good team by any stretch of the imagination. It's a win that should help them learn how to win, and that is a good thing. Just because, I and some others have a little perspective on what this win means does not mean we are miserable. Acknowledging small improvement gives us glimmers of hope for the future. But the future isn't here yet for this team
The biggest improvement in the team, by a long mile, has been the coaching staff. To some extent that is better that improving the players. The coaching staff is more stable. Players come and go. And I believe this staff still has plenty of room to grow. Combine that with some improved players and we may see some winning football soon.
I like the way you debate McL, laying out your points in a logical, easy to follow flow. Your points come off as well reasoned, too, until examined carefully when they largely fall apart, because the are loaded with unproven assumptions, and of course, like pretty much everyone the optimists here call "miserable", they ignore many facts which oppose them.
What some of us see the "miserable" doing are the following:
1) Boil everything down to W-L... Unless of course the W is ugly, then the W-L is less important than "style" points, and these style points are wholly abitrary because they don't include so much other positive data like the following
2) In a game like yesterday's the miserable focus ONLY on the score amd claim the Giants didn't dominate as they should, when stats aside from the score show the Giants did indeed dominate via other measures:
First downs earned
Passing yards and rushing yards each
Time of possession
Plays ran on offense
3) Create straw men as facts:
"Giants will struggle to get to 6 wins"
"Still not a good team by any stretch of the imagination"
What I would like for the miserable to do is STFU until we see the results over the next 4 games, all vs opponents with WINNING RECORDS.
A 1-7 team has won 3 games in a row, all vs struggling opponents, to achieve a 4-7 record. The remaining 5 games are against 4 winners and one loser with some crazy offensive skills players. If the Giants go 3-2 over those remaining 5 games, they will almost certainly win their division.
Let's wait until that unfolds (or doesn't) before classifying this team too harshly, and missing out on their rapidly improving aspects.
What I would like is for jerks to stop labeling people, and stop telling people to STFU!!!
Strawmen?
Quote:
3) Create straw men as facts:
"Giants will struggle to get to 6 wins"
"Still not a good team by any stretch of the imagination"
The Bengals are a crappy team. Look at my posts. I said that it's good to beat crappy teams. That is improvement.
The Giants made a ton of mistakes in this game, mistakes they can't afford to make against non-crappy teams. THe Giants are still learning how to win. Beating crappy teams is a good start. But, seriously dude, do you really think the Giants are a "good" team... Good teams usually have double digit wins. Sometimes they come together late, and only post 9, but mostly double digit. Look around the league. Are the Giants in the same category as the Seahawks, Rams, Sainsts, Bucs, Packers, Bills, Dolphins, Colts, Steelers, Browns, Chiefs? Those are good teams. I don't think it's a "strawman" to say the Giants are not in that category "by any stretch of the imagination".
The remaining games are against the Seahawks, Cardinals, Browns, Ravens and Cowboys. Find me 2 wins in there. Personally I think the odds are against 2 more wins. Especially if DJ is out for any length of time.
I think you should start examining your own arguments.
Oh and talk about strawmen...
Quote:
missing out on their rapidly improving aspects.
Improving, yes... Improving rapidly... Meh, not so much. They have beaten 3 really crappy teams (WFT twice). That's good, but let's not go awarding them any Lombardys yet. Let's see them get to 500 at least before making grand statements about them.
And again... WE ARE NOT MISERABLE...
Tell you what, lets call you and your lot The Angry Fantasizers. How's that... Man I would like for all you Angry Fantasizers to just take a dose of reality pills, and STFU... Does that feel good for you... Felt good for me!
Are the Giants in the same category as the Seahawks, Rams, Sainsts, Bucs, Packers, Bills, Dolphins, Colts, Steelers, Browns, Chiefs?
Among those teams the Giants have played the Rams, Bucs, and Steelers - all of them very competitively and BEFORE their largely inexperienced OL began to come together? Before Logan Ryan "learned" his teammates and stitched them together. Before Jabril Peppers emerged and morphed into a defensive force? Before Coach Graham learned his DBs were much better suited to zone than man to man schemes...
And your point was the Giants aren't even in the same class as them?
I love the way there just has to be a list of things wrong, even in a win.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
FatMan - you don't think it is a legitimate complaint that we scored 10 points with Jones for over a half against a shitty team? That doesn't mean Jones sucked. That doesn't mean Garrett sucked. It means the offense struggled to score points against a team that, by most accounts, we should have beaten going away. How many teams are there about whom we can say that?
Sure, if St had played better or there hadn't been a BS PI call in the end zone, the game isn't close. But, those things did happen and the offense kept it close.
Matt - The complaints seem to be about the points, and ignoring the stats. When Jones left the game, the Giants had 2:1 advantages in TOP and yards. They had a 3:1 advantage in first downs. They were dominating the game statistically. Even at the end, they were significantly better. The Bengals got a TD on a kick return and a gift TD at the end on a terrible call. But many, including yourself are acting as if the game were in peril had Jones still stayed in.
We just missed slayton on a long bomb. McCoy missed a wide-open Lewis for a TD. Those types of plays factor into the points scored issue. I'm not sure why people are getting hung up on the points here. We lost Jones and still won a game that in the recent past, we would have lost. And though we didn't dominate on the scoreboard, we did statistically. On both sides of teh ball.
I love the way there just has to be a list of things wrong, even in a win.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
FatMan - you don't think it is a legitimate complaint that we scored 10 points with Jones for over a half against a shitty team? That doesn't mean Jones sucked. That doesn't mean Garrett sucked. It means the offense struggled to score points against a team that, by most accounts, we should have beaten going away. How many teams are there about whom we can say that?
Sure, if St had played better or there hadn't been a BS PI call in the end zone, the game isn't close. But, those things did happen and the offense kept it close.
Matt - The complaints seem to be about the points, and ignoring the stats. When Jones left the game, the Giants had 2:1 advantages in TOP and yards. They had a 3:1 advantage in first downs. They were dominating the game statistically. Even at the end, they were significantly better. The Bengals got a TD on a kick return and a gift TD at the end on a terrible call. But many, including yourself are acting as if the game were in peril had Jones still stayed in.
We just missed slayton on a long bomb. McCoy missed a wide-open Lewis for a TD. Those types of plays factor into the points scored issue. I'm not sure why people are getting hung up on the points here. We lost Jones and still won a game that in the recent past, we would have lost. And though we didn't dominate on the scoreboard, we did statistically. On both sides of teh ball.
Thank you! And THEY WON THE DAMN GAME!. They closed it out. They did exactly what Eric has been pointing out (correctly) that they needed to learn how to do in order to have their improvement show up in the W-Ls.
I think alot of people here underestimate Colt McCoy, He is no slouch
and will play very well in Seattle knowing he is going to get first team reps in practice. Colt has a big chip on his shoulder from all the crap OL he had to ork with over the years and he is out for a reckoning to change the narrative on his career.
I love the way there just has to be a list of things wrong, even in a win.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
FatMan - you don't think it is a legitimate complaint that we scored 10 points with Jones for over a half against a shitty team? That doesn't mean Jones sucked. That doesn't mean Garrett sucked. It means the offense struggled to score points against a team that, by most accounts, we should have beaten going away. How many teams are there about whom we can say that?
Sure, if St had played better or there hadn't been a BS PI call in the end zone, the game isn't close. But, those things did happen and the offense kept it close.
Matt - The complaints seem to be about the points, and ignoring the stats. When Jones left the game, the Giants had 2:1 advantages in TOP and yards. They had a 3:1 advantage in first downs. They were dominating the game statistically. Even at the end, they were significantly better. The Bengals got a TD on a kick return and a gift TD at the end on a terrible call. But many, including yourself are acting as if the game were in peril had Jones still stayed in.
We just missed slayton on a long bomb. McCoy missed a wide-open Lewis for a TD. Those types of plays factor into the points scored issue. I'm not sure why people are getting hung up on the points here. We lost Jones and still won a game that in the recent past, we would have lost. And though we didn't dominate on the scoreboard, we did statistically. On both sides of teh ball.
Last I checked it's the team with the most points that wins, not the team with the prettiest stats...
That said, the complaints are about the mistakes that kept Cinci in this game when they had no right to be there. Dropped passes, missed throws to open receivers, missed tackles (especially on specials), penalties, the fumble, etc. It's not the stats, its not the final score (they won so the margin doesn't matter) it was the self inflicted wounds. Yes, these things happen to good teams too, although not too often against crappy teams like Cinci...
Are the Giants in the same category as the Seahawks, Rams, Sainsts, Bucs, Packers, Bills, Dolphins, Colts, Steelers, Browns, Chiefs?
Among those teams the Giants have played the Rams, Bucs, and Steelers - all of them very competitively and BEFORE their largely inexperienced OL began to come together? Before Logan Ryan "learned" his teammates and stitched them together. Before Jabril Peppers emerged and morphed into a defensive force? Before Coach Graham learned his DBs were much better suited to zone than man to man schemes...
And your point was the Giants aren't even in the same class as them?
SMH.
The wins give reason for a modicum of optimism. So it's not like we are not happy about them or that they are being discounted. It's just that there is a measured approach to what they signify.
You are projecting some ugly wins over some really crappy teams into wins over some really good teams...
With his special teams tackle at the end of the game. Yet nobody seems to be mentioning him because of how bad our STs were in general. I see Judge mentioned it post game, that was the effort play of the game and possibly season. That play deserves more love and Cam Brown deserves more credit for making it. An awesome play.
Osi, I don't think many fans (myself included) have enough perspective to appreciate that play for it's true value
In all my years being on this website (15+... damn), I think this tackle by Brown is maybe the most underappreciated play I've seen. He may have saved the season with a great effort shoestring tackle. The Bengals would've easily been in FG range if he didn't make that tackle, and might have even taken it all the way.
Maybe because it came at the end of a terrible STs coverage play in a game where STs coverage was awful for the team, but this was just an enormous play. Losing to the garbage Bengals on a game-winning punt return TD would have been absolutely crushing. This entire site would've been an absolute shitshow today if Brown doesn't make that tackle. Thank you Cam Brown, Biggest Play of the Season.
Well said. Personally, I didn't notice it right away because I was too busy throwing a fit because I was sure they were about to blow it. I believe my exact words were, Make the tackle!! They're gonna lose this fucking game!
My wife gave me the, "I thought you were over letting football games negatively affect you" look.
No sorrows, always good to win.
Entertaining?? lol
Yes.
I'll take a win and hope any day.
Count me as one fantastical fan then Eric. This is a game not real life.
Officiating in this league is so poor and inconsistent
it was ugly but I will take it
we really need a better backup QB
He makes a brilliant game plan, then doesn't get some addition pressure when he should.
Also, Colt McCoy running OB on that 2nd down after the fumble recover is a bonehead play cost them 40 seconds.
We have said it before - Garrett has to stop calling backwards or sideways plays in the Red Zone.
Would not ant to be in the Special Teams room this week - wow did the suck.
Officiating in this league is so poor and inconsistent
You think that's because of some measurable increase in talent/coaching or just a favorable dice roll? I think today could easily fall into the latter category.
We are not exactly a "good" team. The analogy here is some not so good looking guy on a sports team message board sees a photo of a girl and starts criticizing her thumbs.
Anyone who ever said they were better off with Colt McCoy was obviously out of their mind. I don’t know how Daniel Jones’ career will turn out, but it will definitely be better than Colt McCoy’s. Hopefully Danny can come back in 2 weeks.
When you lose to a team worse than you are, 3 things happened:
- penalties
- turnovers
- special teams
The Giants avoided one of them and barely held on.
Officiating in this league is so poor and inconsistent
I thought about you right when they made that call on Holmes
I sold out loud “Fatman is losing his shit right now”
In fairness I was losing my shit as well
Hope DJ is back in two weeks.
I took the red pill
Haha
Agreed. I don’t think it could get any worse at this point!
KO for a TD.
Fumble by Engram.
Several near INTs by Alexander.
McCoy missing Lewis for a wide open TD.
McCoy running wide when all we should have down was run the ball into the line three times to force the Bengals to use another TO.
Three penalties by Fleming.
Dropped TD pass by Slayton.
Big PR right at the end of the game that put the Bengals at midfield.
Gallman, the OL, Shepard, and Jones played well. On defense, Williams, Lawrence, Tomlinson, Brown, Bradberry, Peppers, and Lalos were stand outs. Gano was also terrific as usual.
But we were lucky. Burrow would have killed us today. Allen clearly had no timing with his WRs.
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4:08 pm : link : reply
That’s the only explanation for some of the play calls. Then when he made a decent play call, Cam Fleming acted like Cam Fleming.
So you're thinking Jason Garret intentionally called a bad game? As revenge?
Btw? Did you really think Cincy was gonna lay down? We shut them down defensively as we expected.
This.
Anyone who ever said they were better off with Colt McCoy was obviously out of their mind. I don’t know how Daniel Jones’ career will turn out, but it will definitely be better than Colt McCoy’s. Hopefully Danny can come back in 2 weeks.
When you lose to a team worse than you are, 3 things happened:
- penalties
- turnovers
- special teams
The Giants avoided one of them and barely held on.
MCCoy can make some throws and with a week of practice with the starters should be a little better performance. That said, he’s not the athlete that Jones is!
Anyone who ever said they were better off with Colt McCoy was obviously out of their mind. I don’t know how Daniel Jones’ career will turn out, but it will definitely be better than Colt McCoy’s. Hopefully Danny can come back in 2 weeks.
When you lose to a team worse than you are, 3 things happened:
- penalties
- turnovers
- special teams
The Giants avoided one of them and barely held on.
McCoy did what he needed to do, hold on to the football. He will be much better with a week of 1st team snaps. He got too excited on that flats pass over Lewis head.
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Jason Garrett was really upset over the Columbo firing.
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4:08 pm : link : reply
That’s the only explanation for some of the play calls. Then when he made a decent play call, Cam Fleming acted like Cam Fleming.
So you're thinking Jason Garret intentionally called a bad game? As revenge?
Sarcasm isn’t your friend. This isn’t the game thread... people aren’t that crazy here.
But we were lucky. Burrow would have killed us today. Allen clearly had no timing with his WRs.
Game plan would have been different - hard to speculate on what Burrow would have done.
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That’s the only explanation for some of the play calls. Then when he made a decent play call, Cam Fleming acted like Cam Fleming.
Anyone who ever said they were better off with Colt McCoy was obviously out of their mind. I don’t know how Daniel Jones’ career will turn out, but it will definitely be better than Colt McCoy’s. Hopefully Danny can come back in 2 weeks.
When you lose to a team worse than you are, 3 things happened:
- penalties
- turnovers
- special teams
The Giants avoided one of them and barely held on.
McCoy did what he needed to do, hold on to the football. He will be much better with a week of 1st team snaps. He got too excited on that flats pass over Lewis head.
Yeah he panicked
That’s lack of playing in a real game in a few years.
McCoy did what he needed to do, hold on to the football. He will be much better with a week of 1st team snaps. He got too excited on that flats pass over Lewis head.
You’ve got more faith in him than I do. Hopefully you’re right.
Not long ago this game would have gone the other way.
Are Giants a good team? Not yet. But I don't think I'm kidding myself when I see this team headed in the right direction.
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We still have the leagues’s worst fans
This.
Don’t think so.
Just bummed about jones everything else was fine today as far as I’m concerned. D was terrific.
Sometimes live gives us these beautiful ironies.
He makes a brilliant game plan, then doesn't get some addition pressure when he should.
I don't know about this. His D created three turnovers and created the game ending play.
Sorry, I think Graham continues to delivery some quality play from his D.
Great post. I’m sure you said the same shit when the giants won ugly games like this during prior good seasons.
Some of you are just miserable. And definitely not watching other games.
KO for a TD.
Fumble by Engram.
Several near INTs by Alexander.
McCoy missing Lewis for a wide open TD.
McCoy running wide when all we should have down was run the ball into the line three times to force the Bengals to use another TO.
Three penalties by Fleming.
Dropped TD pass by Slayton.
Big PR right at the end of the game that put the Bengals at midfield.
Gallman, the OL, Shepard, and Jones played well. On defense, Williams, Lawrence, Tomlinson, Brown, Bradberry, Peppers, and Lalos were stand outs. Gano was also terrific as usual.
But we were lucky. Burrow would have killed us today. Allen clearly had no timing with his WRs.
Sheard also played well.
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to be excoriated for that Bengals TD drive. And it is not the 1st time he has done it. He never puts pressure on the QB late in a game or late in a half. He seems content to play a little prevent offense and allows the opposing team big chunks of yardage.
He makes a brilliant game plan, then doesn't get some addition pressure when he should.
I don't know about this. His D created three turnovers and created the game ending play.
Sorry, I think Graham continues to delivery some quality play from his D.
Was that a compliment???
Who*are* you?
KO for a TD.
Fumble by Engram.
Several near INTs by Alexander.
McCoy missing Lewis for a wide open TD.
McCoy running wide when all we should have down was run the ball into the line three times to force the Bengals to use another TO.
Three penalties by Fleming.
Dropped TD pass by Slayton.
Big PR right at the end of the game that put the Bengals at midfield.
Gallman, the OL, Shepard, and Jones played well. On defense, Williams, Lawrence, Tomlinson, Brown, Bradberry, Peppers, and Lalos were stand outs. Gano was also terrific as usual.
But we were lucky. Burrow would have killed us today. Allen clearly had no timing with his WRs.
Good summary ... Dion Lewis was pretty good today too ... EE was EE, great plays and yet the fumble. Pray DJ is a fast healer but that hammy looked bad.
I don't know about this. His D created three turnovers and created the game ending play.
Sorry, I think Graham continues to delivery some quality play from his D.
I tend to agree. The TD drive was more about the penalties, one dumb and the other nonexistent. The defense was excellent except for like 2 or 3’plays outside of that drive.
Go ahead and wallow in your misery.
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a loss because of the refs gifting Cincy a TD.
Officiating in this league is so poor and inconsistent
I thought about you right when they made that call on Holmes
I sold out loud “Fatman is losing his shit right now”
In fairness I was losing my shit as well
One series after Tate had his arm held.
If you let one go, you let the other one go too.
I lost my shit!
I mean, I kinda penciled in next week as a loss anyways. Need him back for Cardinals.
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In comment 15059786 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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a loss because of the refs gifting Cincy a TD.
Officiating in this league is so poor and inconsistent
I thought about you right when they made that call on Holmes
I sold out loud “Fatman is losing his shit right now”
In fairness I was losing my shit as well
One series after Tate had his arm held.
If you let one go, you let the other one go too.
I lost my shit!
Not to mention Allen having time to find Higgins because of blatant holding.
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are not a good football team. Tons of mistakes and inexplicable play calling. Way too much running on first down after Jones was hurt.
KO for a TD.
Fumble by Engram.
Several near INTs by Alexander.
McCoy missing Lewis for a wide open TD.
McCoy running wide when all we should have down was run the ball into the line three times to force the Bengals to use another TO.
Three penalties by Fleming.
Dropped TD pass by Slayton.
Big PR right at the end of the game that put the Bengals at midfield.
Gallman, the OL, Shepard, and Jones played well. On defense, Williams, Lawrence, Tomlinson, Brown, Bradberry, Peppers, and Lalos were stand outs. Gano was also terrific as usual.
But we were lucky. Burrow would have killed us today. Allen clearly had no timing with his WRs.
Good summary ... Dion Lewis was pretty good today too ... EE was EE, great plays and yet the fumble. Pray DJ is a fast healer but that hammy looked bad.
Don’t forget Logan Ryan
I tend to agree. The TD drive was more about the penalties, one dumb and the other nonexistent. The defense was excellent except for like 2 or 3’plays outside of that drive.
Look, after another case of special teams coverage, Graham's D saved the game. That's the story.
Hope Jones is OK and can recover by next week. Hamstring injuries are problematic
Inconsistent as hell
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I don't know about this. His D created three turnovers and created the game ending play.
Sorry, I think Graham continues to delivery some quality play from his D.
I tend to agree. The TD drive was more about the penalties, one dumb and the other nonexistent. The defense was excellent except for like 2 or 3’plays outside of that drive.
I am certain about it. He should have had blitzes a little more often. 3 man rushes do not cut it when the other team needs to throw the ball. The DBs played well enough that he should have been sending more people to get Allen moving.
The rest of the game was great. But he just doesn't pressure the QB late in games.
I agree that LW's penalty was beyond stupid and the Holmes one was just blown - when both announcers are dumbfounded and can not find where the penalty is, it was not a penalty.
Not long ago this game would have gone the other way.
Are Giants a good team? Not yet. But I don't think I'm kidding myself when I see this team headed in the right direction.
^ This...
I said something similar on the "Statement Win" thread...
Improvement starts with beating the crappy teams. However, I would not get too excited about barely eking out a win against a lousy team that had the backup for the entire game, not just the 4th qtr.
Lol....yep, I think it’s time Joe pays these guys a visit this week for sure.
CODY CORE....HURRY BACK!
I never liked hiring Garrett and he is doing nothing to make me reconsider.
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In comment 15059810 AcidTest said:
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are not a good football team. Tons of mistakes and inexplicable play calling. Way too much running on first down after Jones was hurt.
KO for a TD.
Fumble by Engram.
Several near INTs by Alexander.
McCoy missing Lewis for a wide open TD.
McCoy running wide when all we should have down was run the ball into the line three times to force the Bengals to use another TO.
Three penalties by Fleming.
Dropped TD pass by Slayton.
Big PR right at the end of the game that put the Bengals at midfield.
Gallman, the OL, Shepard, and Jones played well. On defense, Williams, Lawrence, Tomlinson, Brown, Bradberry, Peppers, and Lalos were stand outs. Gano was also terrific as usual.
But we were lucky. Burrow would have killed us today. Allen clearly had no timing with his WRs.
Good summary ... Dion Lewis was pretty good today too ... EE was EE, great plays and yet the fumble. Pray DJ is a fast healer but that hammy looked bad.
Don’t forget Logan Ryan
Agreed. He played extremely well.
Poor clock management and risking the only QB you have left with runs. The sideline QB sweep saved the Bengals a timeout. Without that, another 30-40 seconds is run off of the clock.
Lol . . . I was so stressed when the Bengals had the ball near the 50 that I stormed into the bedroom and couldn’t bare to watch the loss.
The. my GF yells out “Hey! Hey! Yes!” And I hear the announcer say “Giants ball.” I yell out from the bedroom. . . . “Did I just hear “Giants ball?!” She says “Get out here!” And I do.
I collapsed onto my back on the floor with my right hand on my heart.
“Thank God!”
She says: “So, I can talk to you now?”
“Yes.”
Lol
A definite change in culture this year is a major plus.
Just want to see continued improvement each week.
A win is a win in the NFL. No apologies...
GO GIANTS!!!!
Hamstring apparently. We'll know more later.
Agree. Actually thought he called a good game. McCoy made some ugly throws on what were actually good calls. Also the OL was unable to open holes because Cindy knew McCoy could not beat them through the air. If its a hamstring Jones could be done for several weeks.
Fleming: should never start again at RT.
Slayton: totally disappeared.
Engram: retires the award for most reliably and consistently disappointing.
DJ: is what he is, but he can throw some. Without him the whole thing falls apart. Better hope the hammy heals overnight.
Refs: phony PI call giving the Bungles the ball on the Giants' one kept folks watching the ads for the last few minutes of an otherwise impossible-to-win from two scores behind game. How convenient.
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don't know why Garrett is taking shit. What kind of gameplan was he supposed to have? We ran the ball well. We more than doubled the Cincy output. We valued possession of the ball and just missed a TD to Slayton and did hit two downfield plays when we took the shot.
Agree. Actually thought he called a good game. McCoy made some ugly throws on what were actually good calls. Also the OL was unable to open holes because Cindy knew McCoy could not beat them through the air. If its a hamstring Jones could be done for several weeks.
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to be excoriated for that Bengals TD drive. And it is not the 1st time he has done it. He never puts pressure on the QB late in a game or late in a half. He seems content to play a little prevent offense and allows the opposing team big chunks of yardage.
He makes a brilliant game plan, then doesn't get some addition pressure when he should.
I don't know about this. His D created three turnovers and created the game ending play.
Sorry, I think Graham continues to delivery some quality play from his D.
This was 100 percent on design. The problem was the LW penalty. If he doesn't make that, it cost about 40 seconds as long as that 15 they needed to get was in the field of play, which of course you keep shit inside. Dumb, dumb penalty from a guy who has mostly shown to be a smart player.
I took Giants -5.5 and I knew they weren't going to cover when they went up 9 looking at timeouts and exactly how much time they had left. Not unless we forced a turnover or sack. They have the skilly players to dink and dunk down field.
Gurantee LW gets fucking spit roasted in the film room.
We had the ball for 36 minutes to 22 minutes for Cincy.
We had 19 first downs to Cincy's 11 (and had a 3:1 ratio when Jones was injured)
We had 9 third down conversions.
You guys can keep trying to say the offense was poor, but you really aren't making a very compelling case. Jones stays in that game, we win by two TD's
How does a league "border" on being fixed? Either it is or it isn't.
Bad calls and incompetence makes a lot more sense than a multi-billion dollar enterprise risking its reputation by fixing games to benefit the 2-7-1 Bengals or the 3-8 Cowboys.
+ 100000
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In comment 15059875 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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don't know why Garrett is taking shit. What kind of gameplan was he supposed to have? We ran the ball well. We more than doubled the Cincy output. We valued possession of the ball and just missed a TD to Slayton and did hit two downfield plays when we took the shot.
Agree. Actually thought he called a good game. McCoy made some ugly throws on what were actually good calls. Also the OL was unable to open holes because Cindy knew McCoy could not beat them through the air. If its a hamstring Jones could be done for several weeks.
Agree about Garrett. Just because a play fails, doesn't mean it is a bad call.
I've though Garrett has done a great job this year, just has a tremendous feel for the game as far as playcalling goes, but today wasn't good. Had no issue for him going for some big stuff early, we get those plays and Bengals have no chance with that offensive unit. But going a little further into game it was clear we should have been going more straight. Plus having Colt McCoy throw on 3 and 15 at like the 25 was criminal with him just coming into game and it almost cost us the game, easy pick dropped. There was some other shit, but the coaches (other than Graham) have a lot of things to fix after this one.
We had the ball for 36 minutes to 22 minutes for Cincy.
We had 19 first downs to Cincy's 11 (and had a 3:1 ratio when Jones was injured)
We had 9 third down conversions.
You guys can keep trying to say the offense was poor, but you really aren't making a very compelling case. Jones stays in that game, we win by two TD's
Yeh people are way off on that. I said a little before halftime, this is the type of game where we are down 3 at half and then win going away in the second based on what I saw that far. DJ getting hurt changed that arithmetic a bit. And we still moved the ball better than them and McCoy was only good at evading the rush today, only positive on his review. Which is fine for a backup coming in, don't turn it over and don't take sacks.
We had the ball for 36 minutes to 22 minutes for Cincy.
We had 19 first downs to Cincy's 11 (and had a 3:1 ratio when Jones was injured)
We had 9 third down conversions.
You guys can keep trying to say the offense was poor, but you really aren't making a very compelling case. Jones stays in that game, we win by two TD's
It's also why I liked them going for some big time trick plays early. We get a few easy ones early and the Bengals have zero chance to play catch up. Didn't work, but I understand why they did it.
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don't know why Garrett is taking shit. What kind of gameplan was he supposed to have? We ran the ball well. We more than doubled the Cincy output. We valued possession of the ball and just missed a TD to Slayton and did hit two downfield plays when we took the shot.
Poor clock management and risking the only QB you have left with runs. The sideline QB sweep saved the Bengals a timeout. Without that, another 30-40 seconds is run off of the clock.
That's on McCoy. No reason to go OOB there at all. He was moving upfield.
We had the ball for 36 minutes to 22 minutes for Cincy.
We had 19 first downs to Cincy's 11 (and had a 3:1 ratio when Jones was injured)
We had 9 third down conversions.
You guys can keep trying to say the offense was poor, but you really aren't making a very compelling case. Jones stays in that game, we win by two TD's
They scored a whopping 19 points, 13 of them with Jones (I think, can't remember what the score was when he went out). Against a defense as bad as Cincinnati, that's not very good.
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gameplan. We had 380 yards of offense. Cincy had 150.
We had the ball for 36 minutes to 22 minutes for Cincy.
We had 19 first downs to Cincy's 11 (and had a 3:1 ratio when Jones was injured)
We had 9 third down conversions.
You guys can keep trying to say the offense was poor, but you really aren't making a very compelling case. Jones stays in that game, we win by two TD's
They scored a whopping 19 points, 13 of them with Jones (I think, can't remember what the score was when he went out). Against a defense as bad as Cincinnati, that's not very good.
That wasn’t on Jones. Engram fumbled in scoring territory and Slayton dropping the ball.
When the Giants were perennial playoff contenders a win like this would be upsetting. Can’t understand why anyone wouldn’t feel good about this win for a team that is ascending and struggling to be a decent team. We are not that far away.
This was 100 percent on design. The problem was the LW penalty. If he doesn't make that, it cost about 40 seconds as long as that 15 they needed to get was in the field of play, which of course you keep shit inside. Dumb, dumb penalty from a guy who has mostly shown to be a smart player.
I took Giants -5.5 and I knew they weren't going to cover when they went up 9 looking at timeouts and exactly how much time they had left. Not unless we forced a turnover or sack. They have the skilly players to dink and dunk down field.
Gurantee LW gets fucking spit roasted in the film room.
I didn't mind the flag in the PI in the end zone. I thought it was PI.
The lengths the league goes to protect QBs is just preposterous. LW merely pushed Allen. He didn't hit or tackle him. Allen acted like he got shot by the shooter on the grassy knoll...So that call really bothered me.
As long as we got the ball back with a "normal" amount of time, we could have run out the clock.
McCoy overthrew Lewis for a sure TD on a very good call.
We ran the ball effectively against a stacked defense.
Gallman continues to shine.
Engram is MR. Inconsistent
Hopefully Peart can play next in place of Fleming who was trying to handle the win the the Bengels.
Special teams better clean up their act fast.
Giants really need a number 1 WR.
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Deserve a standing ovation for te effort put in to try and get them Cowboys into first place with only 1 team. Pretty sickening ending if you ask me. The league is bordering on being fixed now.
How does a league "border" on being fixed? Either it is or it isn't.
Bad calls and incompetence makes a lot more sense than a multi-billion dollar enterprise risking its reputation by fixing games to benefit the 2-7-1 Bengals or the 3-8 Cowboys.
^This. At the expense of one of two teams from the largest market in the United States. It's laughable really.
We had the ball for 36 minutes to 22 minutes for Cincy.
We had 19 first downs to Cincy's 11 (and had a 3:1 ratio when Jones was injured)
We had 9 third down conversions.
You guys can keep trying to say the offense was poor, but you really aren't making a very compelling case. Jones stays in that game, we win by two TD's
how dare you deviate from the "agreed upon" consensus and narrative...
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Cost us a couple key plays in the game
Fleming is awful every week.
It’s ok to be excited they won and also critical that the offense wasn’t good today against a very bad defense.
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are games we have lost in the past. So, although it was ugly.. we have to embrace the fact that they pulled it out.
You think that's because of some measurable increase in talent/coaching or just a favorable dice roll? I think today could easily fall into the latter category.
You're saying Cincinatti deserved to win? I don't think so, they got outplayed.
Winning, when you are the idiot making mistakes like a KR TD, getting called for stupid or bad end zone penalties, dumb fumbles like Engram's for a 6 point swing...
Winning despite all those errors takes good coaching, and solid defense.
I love "winning ugly".
Giants Football.
They did one good thing: their opening KR. Other than that they did nothing. And almost won.
What a tragedy it would've been to lose that game.
For those griping about the special teams - the Bengals quietly have outstanding specials. Their KR lead the league last year, and they can cover. That snap on the fake punt was pretty damn good - I've never seen that before. They almost did just enough to bullshit a win.
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Jason Garrett was really upset over the Columbo firing.
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4:08 pm : link : reply
That’s the only explanation for some of the play calls. Then when he made a decent play call, Cam Fleming acted like Cam Fleming.
So you're thinking Jason Garret intentionally called a bad game? As revenge?
Sarcasm isn’t your friend. This isn’t the game thread... people aren’t that crazy here.
But we were humming along pretty well. We had 250+ yards when Jones got hurt and we had converted over 50% of our 3rd down conversions. When Jones left the game, the Giants had outgained the Bengals more than 2 to 1, had 3:1 ratio of first downs and held the ball twice as long. and that was still with Engram fumbling in the red zone.
I'm pretty sure the gameplan going into the week was to control the ball, give the Bengals long fields to work with and not make mistakes.
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My point is that I don't agree with the implication that the offense was just humming along great until Jones got hurt.
But we were humming along pretty well. We had 250+ yards when Jones got hurt and we had converted over 50% of our 3rd down conversions. When Jones left the game, the Giants had outgained the Bengals more than 2 to 1, had 3:1 ratio of first downs and held the ball twice as long. and that was still with Engram fumbling in the red zone.
I'm pretty sure the gameplan going into the week was to control the ball, give the Bengals long fields to work with and not make mistakes.
Scoring points is the objective and they weren’t doing that even with Jones despite piling up yardage.
They did one good thing: their opening KR. Other than that they did nothing. And almost won.
What a tragedy it would've been to lose that game.
For those griping about the special teams - the Bengals quietly have outstanding specials. Their KR lead the league last year, and they can cover. That snap on the fake punt was pretty damn good - I've never seen that before. They almost did just enough to bullshit a win.
That's part of the problem though. I know Judge likes to make them defend every play, and that's his mantra, but when you go up against a team like this and the only way they can beat you is with some major variance, like specials score, don't let them return it. Hopefully, he learns from this, but it almost seemed arrogant.
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This was 100 percent on design. The problem was the LW penalty. If he doesn't make that, it cost about 40 seconds as long as that 15 they needed to get was in the field of play, which of course you keep shit inside. Dumb, dumb penalty from a guy who has mostly shown to be a smart player.
I took Giants -5.5 and I knew they weren't going to cover when they went up 9 looking at timeouts and exactly how much time they had left. Not unless we forced a turnover or sack. They have the skilly players to dink and dunk down field.
Gurantee LW gets fucking spit roasted in the film room.
I didn't mind the flag in the PI in the end zone. I thought it was PI.
The lengths the league goes to protect QBs is just preposterous. LW merely pushed Allen. He didn't hit or tackle him. Allen acted like he got shot by the shooter on the grassy knoll...So that call really bothered me.
The idea that pushing a QB is a 15 yard penalty is absurd. You want to throw a 5 yard flag and no auto first sure? But roughing the passer should be reserved for actually roughing the passer.
yup. and closing out a game that they would have lost most of the last 5 years. I guess learning how to win doesn't count now.
The STs were unexpectedly poor today. That 103 yd KO return killed their momentum and gave Cincy life. And to the Bengals credit, they did not fold up despite the Burrow disaster. They came to play.
*Injure the opponent's QB.
*Horrible playcalling by Garrett
*Get a turnover with the opponent deep in scoring range, plus a big return.
*Get 2 unforced missed TDs by the Giants (the bomb to Slayton, the miss to Dion Lewis)
*Convert a fake punt.
*Get a pass interference penalty on a desperation heave into the end zone.
*Get a holding call when the opponent ices the game.
*Get a big punt return to set up the final FG drive.
That one had all the makings of a classic loss. I give the Giants credit for overcoming all that and still winning. Still shaking my head at Garrett's playcalling down the stretch.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
Winning, when you are the idiot making mistakes like a KR TD, getting called for stupid or bad end zone penalties, dumb fumbles like Engram's for a 6 point swing...
Winning despite all those errors takes good coaching, and solid defense.
I love "winning ugly".
Giants Football.
Thank you. A realistic take.
*Injure the opponent's QB.
*Horrible playcalling by Garrett
*Get a turnover with the opponent deep in scoring range, plus a big return.
*Get 2 unforced missed TDs by the Giants (the bomb to Slayton, the miss to Dion Lewis)
*Convert a fake punt.
*Get a pass interference penalty on a desperation heave into the end zone.
*Get a holding call when the opponent ices the game.
*Get a big punt return to set up the final FG drive.
That one had all the makings of a classic loss. I give the Giants credit for overcoming all that and still winning. Still shaking my head at Garrett's playcalling down the stretch.
Honestly was convinced we were going to lose after the LW penalty. Defense answered the bell again. Lots of pressure on them today, even considering they were going against a mash unit on offense, but they played as good as you can.
I bet I wasn’t alone either....I bet 90% of us here just knew they would score a TD or FG to cut it to either 1 or 6 and then we would go 3 and out and give them the ball back to win?
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
There is a list of things wrong in this one though. And now its compounded with a DJ moving forward with no mobility, which was a big part of our offense. Our skill players just aren't good enough for this offense to lose that. Although maybe Engram is finally rounding into form, seems to be playing with a lot more confidence. That fumble was helluva play by that Bengals guy. Don't really put that one on him, he had it secured.
All the running plays today, when EE was shown, he was flopping on the pile after the run was over. He is inept as a blocker.
I bet I wasn’t alone either....I bet 90% of us here just knew they would score a TD or FG to cut it to either 1 or 6 and then we would go 3 and out and give them the ball back to win?
Well obviously we knew they were going to score, that's how they attack that situation in NFL, rightly so. The thing is we got a ticky tack PI call, the Bengals didn't make any mistakes, and LW with the dumb penalty. Take away any of those and we are talking about them scoring and then having to do an onside kick.
I didn't mind the flag in the PI in the end zone. I thought it was PI.
The lengths the league goes to protect QBs is just preposterous. LW merely pushed Allen. He didn't hit or tackle him. Allen acted like he got shot by the shooter on the grassy knoll...So that call really bothered me.
The idea that pushing a QB is a 15 yard penalty is absurd. You want to throw a 5 yard flag and no auto first sure? But roughing the passer should be reserved for actually roughing the passer.
Right. There is nothing "roughing" about a push.
No helmet to helmet. Nothing low. No body slam. No hitting in the face. Etc. Etc.
Just a bastardized interpretation of the rule.
My biggest kvetch is not sticking with Gallman as the feature back. I just don’t understand why Morris is getting any touches. Gallman could have had 100 rushing today if he got Morris snaps and he may well have put the game away if he ran the ball instead of that stupid sweep with McCoy. Just pound the ball with Gallman and this game probably wasn’t close at the end.
But, yeah, I’m happy the Giants are in first place. Not because I think they’re gonna make a playoff run but because they’ll keep playing meaningful football games as the season grinds on. For the first time in a long while it seems like the Giants building something and that includes winning ugly on the road, off the bye and against a lousy team.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
Does not finishing drives even when Jones was in the game not a negative? If they finish some of those drives it doesn’t come down to needing a strip sack to close it out.
It’s ok for there to be negatives in a win. Don’t need to excuse away everything.
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I didn't mind the flag in the PI in the end zone. I thought it was PI.
The lengths the league goes to protect QBs is just preposterous. LW merely pushed Allen. He didn't hit or tackle him. Allen acted like he got shot by the shooter on the grassy knoll...So that call really bothered me.
The idea that pushing a QB is a 15 yard penalty is absurd. You want to throw a 5 yard flag and no auto first sure? But roughing the passer should be reserved for actually roughing the passer.
Right. There is nothing "roughing" about a push.
No helmet to helmet. Nothing low. No body slam. No hitting in the face. Etc. Etc.
Just a bastardized interpretation of the rule.
Honestly I do t care about the Ws or Ls this year, never did. I like Judge and like what he’s building, but we need more talent. I’m fine if Jones sits a while we play well down the stretch even if dint win many, then look forward to putting things together next year.
Honestly I do t care about the Ws or Ls this year, never did. I like Judge and like what he’s building, but we need more talent. I’m fine if Jones sits a while we play well down the stretch even if dint win many, then look forward to putting things together next year.
We are in desperate need of a big WR. Slayton would be a great #2 and Shepherd a great #3
We'll take 'em however they come!
Anyway, at half time I was pretty convinced the game would go to the Giants. They were controlling the game just not capitalizing. That was bound to come.
Then Jones when out....which was big. On the heels of a potential score.
I have really no complaints other than the last 3 minutes that was aided by some bad decisions (both Giants and refs).
BTW, this win goes to Jones I believe, as he started the game.
Honestly I do t care about the Ws or Ls this year, never did. I like Judge and like what he’s building, but we need more talent. I’m fine if Jones sits a while we play well down the stretch even if dint win many, then look forward to putting things together next year.
*mic drop*
This SO spot on.
threw to a covered receiver within 5-10 yards of the LOS. Each time the receiver was blanketed and it looked like a few of those throws were headed for an INT. When Daniel Jones throws short, he's got to quicken his stroke. He's got to dart it out, not wind up! He also seriously needs a new receiver which the Giants (I hope) will draft in Round 1 or 2 next year
I hope this is both coaching for DJ and better line play.
On one particular play, he stepped up, scambled, and still managed to throw for a first down.
Arm strength also looked pretty good today on the long throws and one throw to Shep outside the numbers.
They were moving the ball but not scoring. When Jones went out they were in field goal range and at least due to turnovers were in FG range or close to it two more times. The offense could have put up close to 30 with Jones in there regardless of early missteps.
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In comment 15059982 Greg from LI said:
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My point is that I don't agree with the implication that the offense was just humming along great until Jones got hurt.
But we were humming along pretty well. We had 250+ yards when Jones got hurt and we had converted over 50% of our 3rd down conversions. When Jones left the game, the Giants had outgained the Bengals more than 2 to 1, had 3:1 ratio of first downs and held the ball twice as long. and that was still with Engram fumbling in the red zone.
I'm pretty sure the gameplan going into the week was to control the ball, give the Bengals long fields to work with and not make mistakes.
Scoring points is the objective and they weren’t doing that even with Jones despite piling up yardage.
You should have been alive when the giants won the SB against Buffalo to see The masterful gameplan.
The rare correct post. Almost mind boggling based on the author.
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are games we have lost in the past. So, although it was ugly.. we have to embrace the fact that they pulled it out.
You think that's because of some measurable increase in talent/coaching or just a favorable dice roll? I think today could easily fall into the latter category.
Defense comes up with a sack fumble with Bengals 15 yards from the winning FG, and you say it was luck!
How many times in the past 9 seasons have you seen a Giants defense do that.
I could disagree with your take more,
we are in good hands with Colt.
Nevertheless, ugly wins are better than the moral victories we've grown used to the past few years. Take the W and get the hell on the plane back to NJ.
Yep, that's exactly what this was, a masterful gameplan to avoid the high powered.....Bengals offense with Brandon Allen. Needing a sack and fumble to hold on against a horrid team is exactly how they drew it up.
Nevertheless, ugly wins are better than the moral victories we've grown used to the past few years. Take the W and get the hell on the plane back to NJ.
At the end of the day, I'm happy with the win. I just don't want this written off as McCoy came in and that's why it was a 1 point game.
There is absolutely no way Fleming should start. Peart should be at RT.
The ST was not good today. But, let's not overreact. ST, as a whole, have been very good this year. I expect them to continue to play well moving forward.
I would honestly be less annoyed if he was moving full speed and hit Allen. That is almost uncontrollable. What Williams did was 100% avoidable and that is why it gets flagged.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
Sure, if St had played better or there hadn't been a BS PI call in the end zone, the game isn't close. But, those things did happen and the offense kept it close.
My biggest kvetch is not sticking with Gallman as the feature back. I just don’t understand why Morris is getting any touches. Gallman could have had 100 rushing today if he got Morris snaps and he may well have put the game away if he ran the ball instead of that stupid sweep with McCoy. Just pound the ball with Gallman and this game probably wasn’t close at the end.
But, yeah, I’m happy the Giants are in first place. Not because I think they’re gonna make a playoff run but because they’ll keep playing meaningful football games as the season grinds on. For the first time in a long while it seems like the Giants building something and that includes winning ugly on the road, off the bye and against a lousy team.
Osi, I don't think many fans (myself included) have enough perspective to appreciate that play for it's true value
Why not give Gallman the ball 25+ carries? They should use Lewis on passing downs to spell Gallman but keep it between those two unless there’s an injury or garbage time. I just don’t see what they gain by running Morris out there. Makes no sense to me.
They did one good thing: their opening KR. Other than that they did nothing. And almost won.
What a tragedy it would've been to lose that game.
For those griping about the special teams - the Bengals quietly have outstanding specials. Their KR lead the league last year, and they can cover. That snap on the fake punt was pretty damn good - I've never seen that before. They almost did just enough to bullshit a win.
There was a game in 05 or so, I think against the Seahawks where we lost 24-21 and gave up 3 points on defense on the final drive of the game. But this was close.
I bet I wasn’t alone either....I bet 90% of us here just knew they would score a TD or FG to cut it to either 1 or 6 and then we would go 3 and out and give them the ball back to win?
This is such a negative take. Instead of being happy that we won a game they would have lost earlier in the year you're criticizing them because we thought they would lose.
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I love the way there just has to be a list of things wrong, even in a win.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
FatMan - you don't think it is a legitimate complaint that we scored 10 points with Jones for over a half against a shitty team? That doesn't mean Jones sucked. That doesn't mean Garrett sucked. It means the offense struggled to score points against a team that, by most accounts, we should have beaten going away. How many teams are there about whom we can say that?
Sure, if St had played better or there hadn't been a BS PI call in the end zone, the game isn't close. But, those things did happen and the offense kept it close.
This team has been mediocre and sometimes even bad on offense all season. Why are you shocked? No one's confusing them with Kansas City. Despite all that Jones had the most yards passing in a first half in his career. Sure that's not more important than points but they played much better than the score.
Just because I, and others are not doing black flips over this win, does not mean we are miserable. We all appreciate the win. The vast majority of the takes are that it was good to win this game, it was a game that this team would have lost in the recent past and that is improvement.
However, it was an ugly win over a crappy team that was missing their starting QB and RB. This team is still 4-7 and will struggle to get to 6 wins. It's still not a good team by any stretch of the imagination. It's a win that should help them learn how to win, and that is a good thing. Just because, I and some others have a little perspective on what this win means does not mean we are miserable. Acknowledging small improvement gives us glimmers of hope for the future. But the future isn't here yet for this team
The biggest improvement in the team, by a long mile, has been the coaching staff. To some extent that is better that improving the players. The coaching staff is more stable. Players come and go. And I believe this staff still has plenty of room to grow. Combine that with some improved players and we may see some winning football soon.
Just because I, and others are not doing black flips over this win, does not mean we are miserable. We all appreciate the win. The vast majority of the takes are that it was good to win this game, it was a game that this team would have lost in the recent past and that is improvement.
However, it was an ugly win over a crappy team that was missing their starting QB and RB. This team is still 4-7 and will struggle to get to 6 wins. It's still not a good team by any stretch of the imagination. It's a win that should help them learn how to win, and that is a good thing. Just because, I and some others have a little perspective on what this win means does not mean we are miserable. Acknowledging small improvement gives us glimmers of hope for the future. But the future isn't here yet for this team
The biggest improvement in the team, by a long mile, has been the coaching staff. To some extent that is better that improving the players. The coaching staff is more stable. Players come and go. And I believe this staff still has plenty of room to grow. Combine that with some improved players and we may see some winning football soon.
I like the way you debate McL, laying out your points in a logical, easy to follow flow. Your points come off as well reasoned, too, until examined carefully when they largely fall apart, because the are loaded with unproven assumptions, and of course, like pretty much everyone the optimists here call "miserable", they ignore many facts which oppose them.
What some of us see the "miserable" doing are the following:
1) Boil everything down to W-L... Unless of course the W is ugly, then the W-L is less important than "style" points, and these style points are wholly abitrary because they don't include so much other positive data like the following
2) In a game like yesterday's the miserable focus ONLY on the score amd claim the Giants didn't dominate as they should, when stats aside from the score show the Giants did indeed dominate via other measures:
First downs earned
Passing yards and rushing yards each
Time of possession
Plays ran on offense
3) Create straw men as facts:
"Giants will struggle to get to 6 wins"
"Still not a good team by any stretch of the imagination"
What I would like for the miserable to do is STFU until we see the results over the next 4 games, all vs opponents with WINNING RECORDS.
A 1-7 team has won 3 games in a row, all vs struggling opponents, to achieve a 4-7 record. The remaining 5 games are against 4 winners and one loser with some crazy offensive skills players. If the Giants go 3-2 over those remaining 5 games, they will almost certainly win their division.
Let's wait until that unfolds (or doesn't) before classifying this team too harshly, and missing out on their rapidly improving aspects.
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I'm getting tired of being called miserable.
Just because I, and others are not doing black flips over this win, does not mean we are miserable. We all appreciate the win. The vast majority of the takes are that it was good to win this game, it was a game that this team would have lost in the recent past and that is improvement.
However, it was an ugly win over a crappy team that was missing their starting QB and RB. This team is still 4-7 and will struggle to get to 6 wins. It's still not a good team by any stretch of the imagination. It's a win that should help them learn how to win, and that is a good thing. Just because, I and some others have a little perspective on what this win means does not mean we are miserable. Acknowledging small improvement gives us glimmers of hope for the future. But the future isn't here yet for this team
The biggest improvement in the team, by a long mile, has been the coaching staff. To some extent that is better that improving the players. The coaching staff is more stable. Players come and go. And I believe this staff still has plenty of room to grow. Combine that with some improved players and we may see some winning football soon.
I like the way you debate McL, laying out your points in a logical, easy to follow flow. Your points come off as well reasoned, too, until examined carefully when they largely fall apart, because the are loaded with unproven assumptions, and of course, like pretty much everyone the optimists here call "miserable", they ignore many facts which oppose them.
What some of us see the "miserable" doing are the following:
1) Boil everything down to W-L... Unless of course the W is ugly, then the W-L is less important than "style" points, and these style points are wholly abitrary because they don't include so much other positive data like the following
2) In a game like yesterday's the miserable focus ONLY on the score amd claim the Giants didn't dominate as they should, when stats aside from the score show the Giants did indeed dominate via other measures:
First downs earned
Passing yards and rushing yards each
Time of possession
Plays ran on offense
3) Create straw men as facts:
"Giants will struggle to get to 6 wins"
"Still not a good team by any stretch of the imagination"
What I would like for the miserable to do is STFU until we see the results over the next 4 games, all vs opponents with WINNING RECORDS.
A 1-7 team has won 3 games in a row, all vs struggling opponents, to achieve a 4-7 record. The remaining 5 games are against 4 winners and one loser with some crazy offensive skills players. If the Giants go 3-2 over those remaining 5 games, they will almost certainly win their division.
Let's wait until that unfolds (or doesn't) before classifying this team too harshly, and missing out on their rapidly improving aspects.
What I would like is for jerks to stop labeling people, and stop telling people to STFU!!!
Strawmen?
3) Create straw men as facts:
"Giants will struggle to get to 6 wins"
"Still not a good team by any stretch of the imagination"
The Bengals are a crappy team. Look at my posts. I said that it's good to beat crappy teams. That is improvement.
The Giants made a ton of mistakes in this game, mistakes they can't afford to make against non-crappy teams. THe Giants are still learning how to win. Beating crappy teams is a good start. But, seriously dude, do you really think the Giants are a "good" team... Good teams usually have double digit wins. Sometimes they come together late, and only post 9, but mostly double digit. Look around the league. Are the Giants in the same category as the Seahawks, Rams, Sainsts, Bucs, Packers, Bills, Dolphins, Colts, Steelers, Browns, Chiefs? Those are good teams. I don't think it's a "strawman" to say the Giants are not in that category "by any stretch of the imagination".
The remaining games are against the Seahawks, Cardinals, Browns, Ravens and Cowboys. Find me 2 wins in there. Personally I think the odds are against 2 more wins. Especially if DJ is out for any length of time.
I think you should start examining your own arguments.
Oh and talk about strawmen...
Improving, yes... Improving rapidly... Meh, not so much. They have beaten 3 really crappy teams (WFT twice). That's good, but let's not go awarding them any Lombardys yet. Let's see them get to 500 at least before making grand statements about them.
And again... WE ARE NOT MISERABLE...
Tell you what, lets call you and your lot The Angry Fantasizers. How's that... Man I would like for all you Angry Fantasizers to just take a dose of reality pills, and STFU... Does that feel good for you... Felt good for me!
Among those teams the Giants have played the Rams, Bucs, and Steelers - all of them very competitively and BEFORE their largely inexperienced OL began to come together? Before Logan Ryan "learned" his teammates and stitched them together. Before Jabril Peppers emerged and morphed into a defensive force? Before Coach Graham learned his DBs were much better suited to zone than man to man schemes...
And your point was the Giants aren't even in the same class as them?
SMH.
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I love the way there just has to be a list of things wrong, even in a win.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
FatMan - you don't think it is a legitimate complaint that we scored 10 points with Jones for over a half against a shitty team? That doesn't mean Jones sucked. That doesn't mean Garrett sucked. It means the offense struggled to score points against a team that, by most accounts, we should have beaten going away. How many teams are there about whom we can say that?
Sure, if St had played better or there hadn't been a BS PI call in the end zone, the game isn't close. But, those things did happen and the offense kept it close.
Matt - The complaints seem to be about the points, and ignoring the stats. When Jones left the game, the Giants had 2:1 advantages in TOP and yards. They had a 3:1 advantage in first downs. They were dominating the game statistically. Even at the end, they were significantly better. The Bengals got a TD on a kick return and a gift TD at the end on a terrible call. But many, including yourself are acting as if the game were in peril had Jones still stayed in.
We just missed slayton on a long bomb. McCoy missed a wide-open Lewis for a TD. Those types of plays factor into the points scored issue. I'm not sure why people are getting hung up on the points here. We lost Jones and still won a game that in the recent past, we would have lost. And though we didn't dominate on the scoreboard, we did statistically. On both sides of teh ball.
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In comment 15060056 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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I love the way there just has to be a list of things wrong, even in a win.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
FatMan - you don't think it is a legitimate complaint that we scored 10 points with Jones for over a half against a shitty team? That doesn't mean Jones sucked. That doesn't mean Garrett sucked. It means the offense struggled to score points against a team that, by most accounts, we should have beaten going away. How many teams are there about whom we can say that?
Sure, if St had played better or there hadn't been a BS PI call in the end zone, the game isn't close. But, those things did happen and the offense kept it close.
Matt - The complaints seem to be about the points, and ignoring the stats. When Jones left the game, the Giants had 2:1 advantages in TOP and yards. They had a 3:1 advantage in first downs. They were dominating the game statistically. Even at the end, they were significantly better. The Bengals got a TD on a kick return and a gift TD at the end on a terrible call. But many, including yourself are acting as if the game were in peril had Jones still stayed in.
We just missed slayton on a long bomb. McCoy missed a wide-open Lewis for a TD. Those types of plays factor into the points scored issue. I'm not sure why people are getting hung up on the points here. We lost Jones and still won a game that in the recent past, we would have lost. And though we didn't dominate on the scoreboard, we did statistically. On both sides of teh ball.
Thank you! And THEY WON THE DAMN GAME!. They closed it out. They did exactly what Eric has been pointing out (correctly) that they needed to learn how to do in order to have their improvement show up in the W-Ls.
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In comment 15060056 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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I love the way there just has to be a list of things wrong, even in a win.
Now, despite dominating the Bengals in almost every statistic, because we didn't score more points, the offense struggled? Um oh yeah, our starting QB was hurt too.
FatMan - you don't think it is a legitimate complaint that we scored 10 points with Jones for over a half against a shitty team? That doesn't mean Jones sucked. That doesn't mean Garrett sucked. It means the offense struggled to score points against a team that, by most accounts, we should have beaten going away. How many teams are there about whom we can say that?
Sure, if St had played better or there hadn't been a BS PI call in the end zone, the game isn't close. But, those things did happen and the offense kept it close.
Matt - The complaints seem to be about the points, and ignoring the stats. When Jones left the game, the Giants had 2:1 advantages in TOP and yards. They had a 3:1 advantage in first downs. They were dominating the game statistically. Even at the end, they were significantly better. The Bengals got a TD on a kick return and a gift TD at the end on a terrible call. But many, including yourself are acting as if the game were in peril had Jones still stayed in.
We just missed slayton on a long bomb. McCoy missed a wide-open Lewis for a TD. Those types of plays factor into the points scored issue. I'm not sure why people are getting hung up on the points here. We lost Jones and still won a game that in the recent past, we would have lost. And though we didn't dominate on the scoreboard, we did statistically. On both sides of teh ball.
Last I checked it's the team with the most points that wins, not the team with the prettiest stats...
That said, the complaints are about the mistakes that kept Cinci in this game when they had no right to be there. Dropped passes, missed throws to open receivers, missed tackles (especially on specials), penalties, the fumble, etc. It's not the stats, its not the final score (they won so the margin doesn't matter) it was the self inflicted wounds. Yes, these things happen to good teams too, although not too often against crappy teams like Cinci...
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Are the Giants in the same category as the Seahawks, Rams, Sainsts, Bucs, Packers, Bills, Dolphins, Colts, Steelers, Browns, Chiefs?
Among those teams the Giants have played the Rams, Bucs, and Steelers - all of them very competitively and BEFORE their largely inexperienced OL began to come together? Before Logan Ryan "learned" his teammates and stitched them together. Before Jabril Peppers emerged and morphed into a defensive force? Before Coach Graham learned his DBs were much better suited to zone than man to man schemes...
And your point was the Giants aren't even in the same class as them?
SMH.
The wins give reason for a modicum of optimism. So it's not like we are not happy about them or that they are being discounted. It's just that there is a measured approach to what they signify.
You are projecting some ugly wins over some really crappy teams into wins over some really good teams...
Good luck with that.
Enjoy your fantasy world while it lasts.
Some of us live in the real world.
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With his special teams tackle at the end of the game. Yet nobody seems to be mentioning him because of how bad our STs were in general. I see Judge mentioned it post game, that was the effort play of the game and possibly season. That play deserves more love and Cam Brown deserves more credit for making it. An awesome play.
Osi, I don't think many fans (myself included) have enough perspective to appreciate that play for it's true value
In all my years being on this website (15+... damn), I think this tackle by Brown is maybe the most underappreciated play I've seen. He may have saved the season with a great effort shoestring tackle. The Bengals would've easily been in FG range if he didn't make that tackle, and might have even taken it all the way.
Maybe because it came at the end of a terrible STs coverage play in a game where STs coverage was awful for the team, but this was just an enormous play. Losing to the garbage Bengals on a game-winning punt return TD would have been absolutely crushing. This entire site would've been an absolute shitshow today if Brown doesn't make that tackle. Thank you Cam Brown, Biggest Play of the Season.
My wife gave me the, "I thought you were over letting football games negatively affect you" look.