We have to keep in mind that the Bengals are a pretty bad football team, but after rewatching the game yesterday, I think it's becoming clear where the team is now and where they could possibly be at the end of the season (and possibly the playoffs). All of this hinges on Jones obviously, it would be great if he could play at Seattle. It's a winnable game if he does. If not, it's a likely loss. Anyway, a few thoughts.
1. It was seen as a quality signing at first, but Logan Ryan is the type of dude who can change a locker room by himself. "Good defenses travel" is what he said after the game, and that mindset has basically spread throughout the whole team. He has become the voice of the defense in short order and I think Gettleman, who we love to rag on, really deserves more than a lot of credit for this signing. With a new staff, a second year QB, lack of preseason, etc, Ryan is a guy who can steady the ship and he's just been flat out great for us.
2. We can still have a debate about whether it was smart to trade 2 draft picks for a pending free agent, but I think the Leonard Williams trade (and hopefully we sign him) was a microcosm of Gettleman's time with NYG. You just have to be patient. We can screm and yell all we want, but DG was put in charge of building a team. Yes, it really took awhile. Shurmur was god awful. The Eli stuff, there's certainly a debate around that. Lack of talent the first 2 seasons was rough. But the trade for Williams that had everyone up in arms *at first* is one of the main reasons this team is in first place and playing some of the best defense in the entire NFL. Yes, that's right, the entire league. A lot of games to go, but the dude is a force and while we certainly don't want to just give him a blank check, he should be a priority.
3. I do believe we may have finally found a group of 5-6 OL that will shape the offense for the forseeable future. I'm really not sure what the deal is with Hernandez (or if Lemieux is just better, maybe he's not) but Thomas-Hernandez/Lemieux/Gates/Zeitler/Peart is a group we can roll with next year, and I'd imagine Zeitler gets replaced with a draft pick, a free agent, or one of Hernandez/Lemieux. Either way, we finally have talent, good depth, and a plan, and it is actually showing up on the field. Getting a good push, protecting the QB. Ball control. I don't want to compare because that OL had multiple pro bowlers, but Dallas used to kill games by plodding up and down the field on every drive, getting points one way or the other, and it was maddening. We can be that type of an offense next season if we add a WR.
4. Judge wanted teachers as coordinators and not necessarily flashy guys with all this experience, he wanted people who could coach hard and go multiple. Patrick Graham, aside from the SF and DAL games, has done an outstanding job in basically every game we have played, with the talent we have, which is only going to get better down the stretch and into the offseason. People say "bend but don't break" but it's not like we are just sitting back there and letting the other team get field goals. It's an attacking defense but also a sound one at the same time. We don't blitz a lot, but we get good pressure constantly. It is pretty awesome to watch. The preparation on all sides of the ball (save for specials this week) has been excellent.
5. I'm not sure if 6-10 is going to win the division, but it might. And everyone loves to scoff at the fact that one of the teams in the NFC East is going to make the playoffs, but nobody talks about how they could easily win a playoff game if that happened. We are playing as good on defense than anyone in the NFC right now. If we can get Jones healthy and keep the turnovers to a minimum, we've got a shot against anyone aside from Kansas City, who we don't play.
That's all. Looking forward to a fun 5 games ahead.
Ny at Seattle
Wash at Pitt
Philly at GB
Dallas at Balt
Gettleman made some good moves this off-season and I give him credit or that. Are most of his early moves panning out with some patience? No. This roster lacks talent up and down the lineup based on the moves he made his first two years which don’t look any better after time.
Gettleman made some good moves this off-season and I give him credit or that. Are most of his early moves panning out with some patience? No. This roster lacks talent up and down the lineup based on the moves he made his first two years which don’t look any better after time.
The two picks were for exclusive rights to him, which is why he is still on the team. With that said, we probably made a huge mistake in not signing him to a long term deal.
Interesting write-up.
After watching Cincy game I'm left with one overall impression of this team: It doesn't have the horses on offense to do anything the rest of season (and that's with or without Daniel Jones.) I can't see past 6-10. This team is desperate for a #1 WR which the Giants may find in Round 1 or 2 next Draft.
I'm in agreement with you. In an earlier thread I predicted 2 more wins but I really had to stretch my imagination to get there.
Wentz isn't very mobile?? The guy is known for making more throws outside the pocket than in it!
Interesting write-up.
After watching Cincy game I'm left with one overall impression of this team: It doesn't have the horses on offense to do anything the rest of season (and that's with or without Daniel Jones.) I can't see past 6-10. This team is desperate for a #1 WR which the Giants may find in Round 1 or 2 next Draft.
If this team had the WR talent that Cincy has or say Dallas has I swear we would be a 10 win team.
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The last 3 weeks the Giants have faced Smith, Wentz and Allen, who are not very mobile... now we got Wilson, Murray, Mayfield and Jackson coming up and these guys can extend plays and kill you with their legs. PG is going to be really challenged over these games.
Wentz isn't very mobile?? The guy is known for making more throws outside the pocket than in it!
Ok ... but does that really say much?
They are big & physical. They run the ball & stuff the run, they have a big mobile QB and they are used to playing in ugly games. I love these types of teams.
Ny at Seattle
Wash at Pitt
Philly at GB
Dallas at Balt
80% that all teams lose is incredibly high. If all the teams have 20% chance of winning teams then there's a 41% chance all of the teams lose.
Gettleman made some good moves this off-season and I give him credit or that. Are most of his early moves panning out with some patience? No. This roster lacks talent up and down the lineup based on the moves he made his first two years which don’t look any better after time.
Who's to say another team wouldn't have made a deal with the Jets to land LW.
He's never been a FA. Good players like LW don't become free agents.
Still, I'm happy with the way the season has progressed. They look like a real, prepared team every week, the coaches are teaching and players are improving because of it.
Gettleman made some good moves this off-season and I give him credit or that. Are most of his early moves panning out with some patience? No. This roster lacks talent up and down the lineup based on the moves he made his first two years which don’t look any better after time.
And I keep waiting to learn why you let a guy get to free agency if you really believe in him. Are you guaranteed to sign him?
how they do. I don't think Jones will be back for a couple weeks at least.
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But the criticism of the Williams deal was not that Williams sucks, it’s that we gave up two picks for a guy who could have been signed in the offseason for NO picks. The two picks were given up for a tryout on a team going nowhere. Williams can become a perennial All-Pro and it would still be a dumb move.
Gettleman made some good moves this off-season and I give him credit or that. Are most of his early moves panning out with some patience? No. This roster lacks talent up and down the lineup based on the moves he made his first two years which don’t look any better after time.
And I keep waiting to learn why you let a guy get to free agency if you really believe in him. Are you guaranteed to sign him?
If you really believe in him, you sign him to a deal either in free agency or after you acquire him. The Giants didn't do that. DG said it was an audition. So no, they didn't believe in him based on what they said or did.
They are big & physical. They run the ball & stuff the run, they have a big mobile QB and they are used to playing in ugly games. I love these types of teams.
No legit contenders are scared of the Giants. Give me a break.
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The Giants have one of those teams you DO NOT want to face in the Playoffs. Like an unranked fighter everyone ducks.
They are big & physical. They run the ball & stuff the run, they have a big mobile QB and they are used to playing in ugly games. I love these types of teams.
No legit contenders are scared of the Giants. Give me a break.
That is not to say they wouldn't be capable of pulling off an upset. They have a sound D that is improving and an OL that is improving. But, it seems it would take a very clean and nearly perfect game from them to beat a good team. Do they have more than 1 game like that in them? They will rightly be an underdog in any playoff game they would appear in.
I’m reminded of the little run the team had in 2018, when they climbed to 5-8 and plenty of folks were going gaga, only to lose out in pretty bad fashion. I thought 4 wins was the ceiling, if they get to 6 I’ll be impressed.
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The Giants have one of those teams you DO NOT want to face in the Playoffs. Like an unranked fighter everyone ducks.
They are big & physical. They run the ball & stuff the run, they have a big mobile QB and they are used to playing in ugly games. I love these types of teams.
No legit contenders are scared of the Giants. Give me a break.
YOu think the Rams and/or Bucs are interested in playing the Giants in the playoffs this year?
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But the criticism of the Williams deal was not that Williams sucks, it’s that we gave up two picks for a guy who could have been signed in the offseason for NO picks. The two picks were given up for a tryout on a team going nowhere. Williams can become a perennial All-Pro and it would still be a dumb move.
Gettleman made some good moves this off-season and I give him credit or that. Are most of his early moves panning out with some patience? No. This roster lacks talent up and down the lineup based on the moves he made his first two years which don’t look any better after time.
And I keep waiting to learn why you let a guy get to free agency if you really believe in him. Are you guaranteed to sign him?
If the argument is that it was a bad trade because we could of signed him in FA, that's just wrong. The Jets had a ton of suitors for him and exactly why we needed to throw in the kicker pick. Fans waay overvalue midround picks. In their mind they always zero in on the POTENTIAL of these picks. The NFL has a ton of data on this, and he certainly would have gotten a 3rd. That's the baseline because of the comp formula. Lots of teams giving up a lot for proven players, even in walk years, and a lot more than just a couple midround picks. He would have been one of the best players on the FA market.
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In comment 15060916 mittenedman said:
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The Giants have one of those teams you DO NOT want to face in the Playoffs. Like an unranked fighter everyone ducks.
They are big & physical. They run the ball & stuff the run, they have a big mobile QB and they are used to playing in ugly games. I love these types of teams.
No legit contenders are scared of the Giants. Give me a break.
YOu think the Rams and/or Bucs are interested in playing the Giants in the playoffs this year?
I think there's a bit of a gap between the Rams and the top of the conference this year.
Rams and Bucs look like 4th best NFC teams to me.
There's always blips in each of those in games because the roster is young, and still has a number of talent holes to fill. There's always mental errors, bad penalties, and things that really shouldn't happen at the pro level but are indicative of a young team.
This roster will look different as each year goes by, based on new talent they add, and players who age out, wash out, move on via UFA, etc.
Draft picks are lottery tickets. When you are rebuilding you want as many tickets as possible because you don't just have starter positions to fill, you need depth and developmental players as well. They are not gold, but they are also not worthless if they aren't signed to second contracts four years later.
Cmon man. It’s good to be excited that they’re trending up in certain areas but let’s be realistic here.
nothing terrific in all honesty. But we will see. There is some promise.
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In comment 15060916 mittenedman said:
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The Giants have one of those teams you DO NOT want to face in the Playoffs. Like an unranked fighter everyone ducks.
They are big & physical. They run the ball & stuff the run, they have a big mobile QB and they are used to playing in ugly games. I love these types of teams.
No legit contenders are scared of the Giants. Give me a break.
YOu think the Rams and/or Bucs are interested in playing the Giants in the playoffs this year?
They are big & physical. They run the ball & stuff the run, they have a big mobile QB and they are used to playing in ugly games. I love these types of teams.
Every NFC team that makes the playoffs would absolutely LOVE to play an NFC East team in the playoffs.
This is what I'm talking about when I say half of BBI has lost their mind.
I had zero idea
It's hard for me to imagine the Giants winning more than 2 the rest of the way - I'd really like to beat Dallas to end the season, regardless of the team record at that point, and I would really love to beat Mayfield and the Browns. I think other than Dallas, Cleveland is the most likely OTHER win. I just don't think they're good at all.
Play the rest of the teams competitively, or mostly, and I'll call it a very good debut for Judge, and a nice start on righting the ship.
Playoffs. Playoffs? Well, that would just be a ridiculously fun bonus that I can't set myself up for, at all.
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The Giants have one of those teams you DO NOT want to face in the Playoffs. Like an unranked fighter everyone ducks.
They are big & physical. They run the ball & stuff the run, they have a big mobile QB and they are used to playing in ugly games. I love these types of teams.
Every NFC team that makes the playoffs would absolutely LOVE to play an NFC East team in the playoffs.
This is what I'm talking about when I say half of BBI has lost their mind.
actually it's closer to 98%. 49/49 wide eyed optimists/miserable fucking unhappy pricks who would boo Santa Claus cant find joy in anything fools.
we other 2% are just happy to see steady improvement LOL
It's hard for me to imagine the Giants winning more than 2 the rest of the way - I'd really like to beat Dallas to end the season, regardless of the team record at that point, and I would really love to beat Mayfield and the Browns. I think other than Dallas, Cleveland is the most likely OTHER win. I just don't think they're good at all.
Play the rest of the teams competitively, or mostly, and I'll call it a very good debut for Judge, and a nice start on righting the ship.
Playoffs. Playoffs? Well, that would just be a ridiculously fun bonus that I can't set myself up for, at all.
Like, you I really want to beat Dallas regardless of what implications that game has on record, playoffs, etc.
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The Giants have one of those teams you DO NOT want to face in the Playoffs. Like an unranked fighter everyone ducks.
They are big & physical. They run the ball & stuff the run, they have a big mobile QB and they are used to playing in ugly games. I love these types of teams.
Every NFC team that makes the playoffs would absolutely LOVE to play an NFC East team in the playoffs.
This is what I'm talking about when I say half of BBI has lost their mind.
They might want to play the Giants team that started this season, but that team is going to be long gone by the time January rolls around. This team has gotten much better quickly, I'm surprised you don't see it.
if we count Dallas, there's two winning teams we have to beat within four games.
Realistically, it's a difficult task. Our defense has improved over the season but our offense really hasn't been able to overcome the talent deficit.
The Patriots beat Baltimore and then lost to Houston, then beat Arizona. The 49ers have looked up and down all year. The Falcons just destroyed the Raiders, but the Raiders almost beat Kansas City.
You guys thinking that the Giants couldn’t beat someone in the playoffs need to reconsider.
if we count Dallas, there's two winning teams we have to beat within four games.
Realistically, it's a difficult task. Our defense has improved over the season but our offense really hasn't been able to overcome the talent deficit.
Not true. 6-10 can win this as Philly will have a tough road to get to 6 wins.
I think they'd prefer to play the Giants than say the Saints or Seahawks or Packers, yeah.
We are a dreadful offensive team that struggles to reach 20 points per game. The defense still can't rush the passer.
Our QB at best is going to have to deal with a nagging hamstring injury the reason of the season.
You are what your record is. Except if you beat Cincinnati, they suck. Or anyone in the NFCE. That shit doesn't count.
When Judge got hired I hoped he was the next Vrabel/Flores. They each appeared to be effective leaders who found a way to blend the Belichek way with their own styles. So far we have seen some of that. When Jones got hurt that became a very losable game. Even more so when the officials gifted the goaline to Cincy when they couldn't sniff the red zone or a downfield pass all game.
So with 5 games left I just hope we continue to see more of that. Maybe close the deal on a win against a good team out of the NFCE, though I suspect even if that happens someone from the BBI bucket brigade will be ready with some anti-freeze laced sub zero liquid fun.
The Giants have consistently been in the top 10 in sacks, pressures, and knock downs all year.
The Giants have consistently been in the top 10 in sacks, pressures, and knock downs all year.
I know, it’s utter stupidity to state with conviction we have no pass rush. Stats (which I’m often not a big fan of) do not lie for other teams. With us, there’s always a yeah, but....
The Giants have consistently been in the top 10 in sacks, pressures, and knock downs all year.
I think we are seeing a lot more pressure because the coverage has improved. It does seem like QBs have an awful lot of time against us. Granted that is just an empirical take just watching games.
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I'm one of the least bullish posters about this team, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills every time I read the Giants can't rush the passer.
The Giants have consistently been in the top 10 in sacks, pressures, and knock downs all year.
I know, it’s utter stupidity to state with conviction we have no pass rush. Stats (which I’m often not a big fan of) do not lie for other teams. With us, there’s always a yeah, but....
The Giants are top 10 in the major pass rush stats, are 10th in scoring, 8th in receiving TDs against, 2nd passes defensed, and middle of the pack in INTs, passer rating against, passing yards against.
They have a good pass rush and a productive secondary.
The problem with the Giants is the offense.
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In comment 15061815 christian said:
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I'm one of the least bullish posters about this team, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills every time I read the Giants can't rush the passer.
The Giants have consistently been in the top 10 in sacks, pressures, and knock downs all year.
I know, it’s utter stupidity to state with conviction we have no pass rush. Stats (which I’m often not a big fan of) do not lie for other teams. With us, there’s always a yeah, but....
The Giants are top 10 in the major pass rush stats, are 10th in scoring, 8th in receiving TDs against, 2nd passes defensed, and middle of the pack in INTs, passer rating against, passing yards against.
They have a good pass rush and a productive secondary.
The problem with the Giants is the offense.
What a difference a Barkley would have made, especially as the OL has matured from game to game
I had zero idea
Ahhh.....31 teams are trending down while we’re peaking?
The Bengals beat the Titans. They had Cleveland dead to rights until a spectacular touchdown catch on 4th down to end the game. We have to stop dumbing down wins against bad teams. Good teams find ways to beat bad teams when they have a weird game or have turnovers or don’t play that well.
I’m not saying we are a good team. But this is absolute bullshit that we shouldn’t be happy or find good things in this win. Good teams do that all the time.
The Bengals beat the Titans. They had Cleveland dead to rights until a spectacular touchdown catch on 4th down to end the game. We have to stop dumbing down wins against bad teams. Good teams find ways to beat bad teams when they have a weird game or have turnovers or don’t play that well.
I’m not saying we are a good team. But this is absolute bullshit that we shouldn’t be happy or find good things in this win. Good teams do that all the time.
Good teams also beat good teams. I’m pretty sure Eric was referring to this “Seattle is winnable, we could beat anyone outside of KC” mindset, anyway.
I’m reminded of the little run the team had in 2018, when they climbed to 5-8 and plenty of folks were going gaga, only to lose out in pretty bad fashion. I thought 4 wins was the ceiling, if they get to 6 I’ll be impressed.
I don’t think they got to 5-8 and I know no one was going gaga. Also, no one liked that OL back then and the defense was a disaster.
If you can’t see the differences between this team and 2018 I don’t know what to tell you. This team has a young OL worth something and a good defense. Also has a young QBs who’s showed progress the last few weeks and the team lost the very player in Barkley that carried that 2018 team to any win it could muster. Cmon already. Live a little.
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because of Philly's tie.
if we count Dallas, there's two winning teams we have to beat within four games.
Realistically, it's a difficult task. Our defense has improved over the season but our offense really hasn't been able to overcome the talent deficit.
Not true. 6-10 can win this as Philly will have a tough road to get to 6 wins.