But I think there is hope. JJ Old school power/ball control FB and sound D gives us a chance. Colt with 1 week of 1st team reps, hopefully he just needs to be a game manager.
JJ is what gives me hope. That is biggest difference between this year and prior years.
Not so much. I'd prefer someone with some experience. But, for this year as a backup to McCoy if Jones is going to miss more than a week, it's an interesting idea. The alternative right now is Thorson.
But, potential is not necessarily the best quality for a backup, especially a backup to a young QB. You want a guy to be better suited to step in in a pinch and to offer more in terms of mentoring or reviewing film, etc. I don't think Rosen offers that. Having another young QB behind a young QB also doesn't necessarily do much to improve the starter's comfort or confidence levels.
1) His skill set and style of play is different from DJ, so you have to change the offense if he needs to play. And DJ misses more time than his iron-man predecessor.
2) He is in a perfect situation for himself right now: In the QB room with Tom Brady, learning to be a pro QB out of the spotlight and with no pressure to perform. He took a step back to take several steps forward. He would be foolish to leave that situation to be a backup to another young QB.
3) He's not going to be eager to be DJ's long-term backup. He's still aiming to work his way back to a starting job. He'll be unhappy in that role. You want everybody on the roster to be a competitor, and to be trying to play his way onto the field, but this looks like a recipe for locker room disharmony to me.
Rosen never really lived up to the hype at UCLA. I'm not optimistic about his future. But he is still trying...
But, potential is not necessarily the best quality for a backup, especially a backup to a young QB. You want a guy to be better suited to step in in a pinch and to offer more in terms of mentoring or reviewing film, etc. I don't think Rosen offers that. Having another young QB behind a young QB also doesn't necessarily do much to improve the starter's comfort or confidence levels.
I'm not sold on Jones anyway. If Jones can't handle the heat of another guy with ability, then he's not the guy.
1) His skill set and style of play is different from DJ, so you have to change the offense if he needs to play. And DJ misses more time than his iron-man predecessor.
2) He is in a perfect situation for himself right now: In the QB room with Tom Brady, learning to be a pro QB out of the spotlight and with no pressure to perform. He took a step back to take several steps forward. He would be foolish to leave that situation to be a backup to another young QB.
3) He's not going to be eager to be DJ's long-term backup. He's still aiming to work his way back to a starting job. He'll be unhappy in that role. You want everybody on the roster to be a competitor, and to be trying to play his way onto the field, but this looks like a recipe for locker room disharmony to me.
Rosen never really lived up to the hype at UCLA. I'm not optimistic about his future. But he is still trying...
i still think he can be good. He has more arm talent than Jones and throws a pretty ball with anticipation. In terms of the offense, they can pretty much run the same stuff except for a lot of the designed runs that Jones excels at. In the pocket and roll outs, they are pretty much the same. And Rosen isn't a statue, he can do a bit of the run stuff.
But, potential is not necessarily the best quality for a backup, especially a backup to a young QB. You want a guy to be better suited to step in in a pinch and to offer more in terms of mentoring or reviewing film, etc. I don't think Rosen offers that. Having another young QB behind a young QB also doesn't necessarily do much to improve the starter's comfort or confidence levels.
I'm not sold on Jones anyway. If Jones can't handle the heat of another guy with ability, then he's not the guy.
Even if you aren't sold on Jones, Rosen isn't changing thaat, as he is not likely to be the guy. I understand the logic that if your starter can't handle that then why is he starting. I don't holly disagree with you there. But, my point is Rosen would have zero chance of starting barring an injury to Jones, so why even bother with another young player with even less experience at this point. If you aren't sold on Jones and Lawrence is no longer a possibility, then have a vet who brings something to the table.
But, potential is not necessarily the best quality for a backup, especially a backup to a young QB. You want a guy to be better suited to step in in a pinch and to offer more in terms of mentoring or reviewing film, etc. I don't think Rosen offers that. Having another young QB behind a young QB also doesn't necessarily do much to improve the starter's comfort or confidence levels.
I'm not sold on Jones anyway. If Jones can't handle the heat of another guy with ability, then he's not the guy.
Even if you aren't sold on Jones, Rosen isn't changing thaat, as he is not likely to be the guy. I understand the logic that if your starter can't handle that then why is he starting. I don't holly disagree with you there. But, my point is Rosen would have zero chance of starting barring an injury to Jones, so why even bother with another young player with even less experience at this point. If you aren't sold on Jones and Lawrence is no longer a possibility, then have a vet who brings something to the table.
i agree with your logic. But you're not getting someone who is any good. Especially if you want them to be a gifted runner as well.
But, potential is not necessarily the best quality for a backup, especially a backup to a young QB. You want a guy to be better suited to step in in a pinch and to offer more in terms of mentoring or reviewing film, etc. I don't think Rosen offers that. Having another young QB behind a young QB also doesn't necessarily do much to improve the starter's comfort or confidence levels.
Yeah I much prefer the proven vet but if going the other way the biggest benefit of having a young backup to a young starter would be the potential of trade him for assets at some point. However that is accomplished drafting a raw project with talent and then hope he will eventually shows enough that teams believe he can be a starter and worth taking a chance trading for. But for that to happen it's the unknown and potential upside that's needed, but with Rosen the bloom is off the rose already.
Rosen is a free agent, and he’s currently where he wants to be. Practice squad players can’t just be claimed off a waiver wire; they have to be recruited. It’s usually easy, because a $500K raise is a big deal for most PS members. Rosen already has career earnings close to $20MM, and his family was comfortable before he made a dime
Rosen chose an apprenticeship with Arians, Leftwich and Brady over end-of-the-bench opportunities that offered less less chance of fulfilling his once-prolific potential. The Giants probably wouldn’t be attractive at all. They have a possible franchise QB who is Rosen’s age, the organization isn’t exactly stable.
He is on the TB practice squad, not even a backup QB. If there were any NFL personnel people out there who still believed that he offered ANY shot of living up to to potential that he showed coming out of UCLA...dont you think ONE team would have already taken a shot and signed him to be at least be a backup?
He is on the TB practice squad, not even a backup QB. If there were any NFL personnel people out there who still believed that he offered ANY shot of living up to to potential that he showed coming out of UCLA...dont you think ONE team would have already taken a shot and signed him to be at least be a backup?
I'm not a Rosen fan, but it doesn't work that way. The player has agency here. He doesn't need the money and the best thing for his career is to stay where he is for now. We don't know whether he has received offers; if so, he may have turned them down. He'd be smart to do so.
"Rosen is still in Tampa Bay" is not the same as "Rosen must suck."
But wouldn't a guy who at one time was talked about as a potential number 1 overall pick, who then was jettisoned by multiple QB needy teams quickly, raise major red flags about who he is in the QB room and as a teammate? Especially with guys with far less hype and talent continuing to find themselves as backups on active rosters? That's not coincidental. Nor were the rumors of his love of the game, attitude and drive prior to the draft.
Rosen is crazy on here. He didn't cut it with Arizona and he didn't cut it with miami. He is now on the practice squad in Tampa, but somehow he is of some value here? Over mccoy?
Maybe one day these josh rosen threads will stop. Maybe when he is out of the NFL....nahhh they will still pop up
I wanted the Giants to use their 2nd round pick in a trade for Rosen. I am always willing to admit when I was wrong on a player and I was way off when it comes to Rosen. Honestly I find his talent intriguing but it’s not about his talent.
It’s obvious that his attitude and dedication to football is the main issue. He isn’t a player Judge will want on his team.
Seems to me that the red flags before the draft all
but I haven't watched him play since college. But doesn't bode well that he can't break into anyone's roster. But maybe life is just waiting for the Giants to do it.
Rosen would be a reclamation project to even become a backup QB.
However, if my team's QB coach was a real QB guru/whisperer (and he isn't), and there was NO pressure for him to PLAY, much less start, I'd consider it.
That's a whole lot of IFs. And it wouldn't have anything to do with McCoy in the immediate. Rosen still has an NFL arm and accuracy, but there a lot of mashed potato between his ears at this point. He may have been David Carr'd playing behind two OLs even worse than the Giants' OL.
I don't know what exactly happened in Miami last year, but Rosen made some unbelievable throws his rookie year in Arizona. I mean he threw some dimes. Unfortunately, that OL was made of whipped cream. And Rosen just couldn't overcome that.
So there is arm talent there. And if Rosen can get the right guidance and TLC, this wouldn't be a bad investment. What's the real downside? It's not like this would be a huge cap hit...
If we're going to go forward with Jones I think we need two mobile backups to be brought in. Two free agent options may be Jacoby Brissett and Tyrod Taylor. Maybe sign one of them and use a day 3 pick on an athletic kid to develop.
Jones's mobility is a weapon that we want to keep in the offense. Easier to do that if his backups are mobile too.
1) Signing with the Giants to back up Jones makes little sense for Rosen.
2) Signing Rosen to back up Jones makes little sense for the Giants.
So it won’t happen, and it probably shouldn’t.
That said, I wish Josh Rosen well. For all the talk about red flags and attitude issues, the engineers of the Tampa reclamation project have been close enough to Rosen to know what they’re doing. Leftwich was in the QB room with Rosen through a very dark year in Arizona, and Arians has obviously followed him closely, starting with the early part of pre-draft evaluation. If the kid were as toxic as some of his detractors assume, I doubt those guys would want him in the building.
If we're going to go forward with Jones I think we need two mobile backups to be brought in. Two free agent options may be Jacoby Brissett and Tyrod Taylor. Maybe sign one of them and use a day 3 pick on an athletic kid to develop.
Jones's mobility is a weapon that we want to keep in the offense. Easier to do that if his backups are mobile too.
I agree with your idea on the backup being a mobile guy. I'm not so sure about Taylor or Brissett...
Speaking of QBs who fit the profile to back up Daniel Jones long term:
Thorson, on paper, has a lot of the attributes you would want. Smart, good teammate, adequate skills across the board (including mobility); four-year starter against tough competition, with an inferior supporting cast. Before tearing his ACL on a trick play, he was probably a more heralded prospect than Jones. As a bonus, Thorson still has four full years of cost control, despite nearly two seasons with Jason Garrett. (One year might get used this month, depending on how quickly Jones heals.)
Obviously, like any practice squad QB, Clayton Thorson could be out of the NFL next year. Even if he has the right stuff to be the primary backup, you would want to see him in some games before counting on him as #2. My point is just that he appears to check a lot of boxes.
JJ is what gives me hope. That is biggest difference between this year and prior years.
LOL - best comment of the day!
+1
McCoy has been much more productive.
2) He is in a perfect situation for himself right now: In the QB room with Tom Brady, learning to be a pro QB out of the spotlight and with no pressure to perform. He took a step back to take several steps forward. He would be foolish to leave that situation to be a backup to another young QB.
3) He's not going to be eager to be DJ's long-term backup. He's still aiming to work his way back to a starting job. He'll be unhappy in that role. You want everybody on the roster to be a competitor, and to be trying to play his way onto the field, but this looks like a recipe for locker room disharmony to me.
Rosen never really lived up to the hype at UCLA. I'm not optimistic about his future. But he is still trying...
Quote:
why not.. the kid has talent.
But, potential is not necessarily the best quality for a backup, especially a backup to a young QB. You want a guy to be better suited to step in in a pinch and to offer more in terms of mentoring or reviewing film, etc. I don't think Rosen offers that. Having another young QB behind a young QB also doesn't necessarily do much to improve the starter's comfort or confidence levels.
I'm not sold on Jones anyway. If Jones can't handle the heat of another guy with ability, then he's not the guy.
2) He is in a perfect situation for himself right now: In the QB room with Tom Brady, learning to be a pro QB out of the spotlight and with no pressure to perform. He took a step back to take several steps forward. He would be foolish to leave that situation to be a backup to another young QB.
3) He's not going to be eager to be DJ's long-term backup. He's still aiming to work his way back to a starting job. He'll be unhappy in that role. You want everybody on the roster to be a competitor, and to be trying to play his way onto the field, but this looks like a recipe for locker room disharmony to me.
Rosen never really lived up to the hype at UCLA. I'm not optimistic about his future. But he is still trying...
i still think he can be good. He has more arm talent than Jones and throws a pretty ball with anticipation. In terms of the offense, they can pretty much run the same stuff except for a lot of the designed runs that Jones excels at. In the pocket and roll outs, they are pretty much the same. And Rosen isn't a statue, he can do a bit of the run stuff.
Quote:
In comment 15061351 Producer said:
Quote:
why not.. the kid has talent.
But, potential is not necessarily the best quality for a backup, especially a backup to a young QB. You want a guy to be better suited to step in in a pinch and to offer more in terms of mentoring or reviewing film, etc. I don't think Rosen offers that. Having another young QB behind a young QB also doesn't necessarily do much to improve the starter's comfort or confidence levels.
I'm not sold on Jones anyway. If Jones can't handle the heat of another guy with ability, then he's not the guy.
Quote:
In comment 15061360 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 15061351 Producer said:
Quote:
why not.. the kid has talent.
But, potential is not necessarily the best quality for a backup, especially a backup to a young QB. You want a guy to be better suited to step in in a pinch and to offer more in terms of mentoring or reviewing film, etc. I don't think Rosen offers that. Having another young QB behind a young QB also doesn't necessarily do much to improve the starter's comfort or confidence levels.
I'm not sold on Jones anyway. If Jones can't handle the heat of another guy with ability, then he's not the guy.
Even if you aren't sold on Jones, Rosen isn't changing thaat, as he is not likely to be the guy. I understand the logic that if your starter can't handle that then why is he starting. I don't holly disagree with you there. But, my point is Rosen would have zero chance of starting barring an injury to Jones, so why even bother with another young player with even less experience at this point. If you aren't sold on Jones and Lawrence is no longer a possibility, then have a vet who brings something to the table.
i agree with your logic. But you're not getting someone who is any good. Especially if you want them to be a gifted runner as well.
Quote:
why not.. the kid has talent.
But, potential is not necessarily the best quality for a backup, especially a backup to a young QB. You want a guy to be better suited to step in in a pinch and to offer more in terms of mentoring or reviewing film, etc. I don't think Rosen offers that. Having another young QB behind a young QB also doesn't necessarily do much to improve the starter's comfort or confidence levels.
Yeah I much prefer the proven vet but if going the other way the biggest benefit of having a young backup to a young starter would be the potential of trade him for assets at some point. However that is accomplished drafting a raw project with talent and then hope he will eventually shows enough that teams believe he can be a starter and worth taking a chance trading for. But for that to happen it's the unknown and potential upside that's needed, but with Rosen the bloom is off the rose already.
+1
No on Rosen
Let him rest at home with Daddy's money.
Rosen chose an apprenticeship with Arians, Leftwich and Brady over end-of-the-bench opportunities that offered less less chance of fulfilling his once-prolific potential. The Giants probably wouldn’t be attractive at all. They have a possible franchise QB who is Rosen’s age, the organization isn’t exactly stable.
"Rosen is still in Tampa Bay" is not the same as "Rosen must suck."
Maybe one day these josh rosen threads will stop. Maybe when he is out of the NFL....nahhh they will still pop up
It’s obvious that his attitude and dedication to football is the main issue. He isn’t a player Judge will want on his team.
However, if my team's QB coach was a real QB guru/whisperer (and he isn't), and there was NO pressure for him to PLAY, much less start, I'd consider it.
That's a whole lot of IFs. And it wouldn't have anything to do with McCoy in the immediate. Rosen still has an NFL arm and accuracy, but there a lot of mashed potato between his ears at this point. He may have been David Carr'd playing behind two OLs even worse than the Giants' OL.
So there is arm talent there. And if Rosen can get the right guidance and TLC, this wouldn't be a bad investment. What's the real downside? It's not like this would be a huge cap hit...
Jones's mobility is a weapon that we want to keep in the offense. Easier to do that if his backups are mobile too.
2) Signing Rosen to back up Jones makes little sense for the Giants.
So it won’t happen, and it probably shouldn’t.
That said, I wish Josh Rosen well. For all the talk about red flags and attitude issues, the engineers of the Tampa reclamation project have been close enough to Rosen to know what they’re doing. Leftwich was in the QB room with Rosen through a very dark year in Arizona, and Arians has obviously followed him closely, starting with the early part of pre-draft evaluation. If the kid were as toxic as some of his detractors assume, I doubt those guys would want him in the building.
Jones's mobility is a weapon that we want to keep in the offense. Easier to do that if his backups are mobile too.
I agree with your idea on the backup being a mobile guy. I'm not so sure about Taylor or Brissett...
Obviously, like any practice squad QB, Clayton Thorson could be out of the NFL next year. Even if he has the right stuff to be the primary backup, you would want to see him in some games before counting on him as #2. My point is just that he appears to check a lot of boxes.